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LE Fahrenheit 451

Easton Press Collectors

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1spacmann
Jan 29, 2011, 11:07am Top

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fahrenheit-451-Ray-Bradbury-Easton-Press-Signed-New-/1605387...

Check out this auction already on Ebay. Although the EP website doesn't give too many details - according to this auction it is limited to 700 signed copies.

I like that it comes with a slipcase.

2Wootle
Edited: Jan 29, 2011, 11:50am Top

You are late to the party spacmann. Not really in the correct thread, but we have been discussing it for the last day or so.

http://www.librarything.com/topic/98434

3EastonQuality
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 5:31pm Top

Slipcases make it much easier for protection of the gild, especially with the more expensive volumes.

Fahrenheit is selling fast, out of all the signed volumes it is rated first on the best seller signed list and best of all recent volumes. For average sold daily, it is the number one book of the year, so far.

4WinterGloaming
Feb 2, 2011, 12:37pm Top

I see that the price for the Fahrenheit is not scary by any standards, which one might say about Meditations as well, I hope EP makes that a trend where we can have Deluxe Editions of some single volumes in the 150-200 USD segment.

5EastonQuality
Feb 2, 2011, 2:19pm Top

I consider this volume one of the prized and best published volumes for Easton Press. There are perhaps a dozen each year that are stupendous & this is one of my favorites.

6astropi
Feb 2, 2011, 3:18pm Top

5: I would say that ALL of EP's limited editions (see here:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/105844

) are "stupendous" and of superior quality. Since EP is likely to continue producing LEs, you can expect to have a few stand-out volumes produced each year. My guess is that EP is phasing out the old subscriber series (for the most part) and moving to LEs. Which is fine by me! Perhaps EP will become the new LEC.

7astropi
Feb 2, 2011, 3:24pm Top

At this reasonable price, and the fact that it's signed by Bradbury, there is no doubt that resellers are purchasing multiple copies. Please help stop the big-time resellers by purchasing one or two copies yourself! Give to a friend. Share with a stranger. Keep one at home, and one at your desk. Do not pass go. You will uncollect $200...or $195 at any rate.

8iluvbeckett
Feb 2, 2011, 3:30pm Top

>7 astropi: Done!!!

9Highgate
Feb 2, 2011, 3:34pm Top

I know I'm probably in the minority but I think resellers serve a valuable function, allowing people who are unaware of the offer now to get access to a pristine copy at a later date albeit at a higher price. I don't really see it as an us vs. them issue. If they are willing to inventory the books in an environment that maintains their value I don't mind if they buy the books only to sell them at a later date.

10wailofatail
Edited: Feb 2, 2011, 4:03pm Top

That is the purpose they serve but I despise it. If the resellers didn't purchase them in quantity they would last longer at Easton Press so the need for the reseller would be less immediate. And why should someone who has an interest in the book sooner than someone else be denied the opportunity to purchase it at retail because some re-seller decided to save it for someone with deeper pockets?

Would it be right for me to save the last open seat on a crowded bus for someone who is willing to pay me extra to let them sit down or should the first person who paid the same price to ride as I be entitled to sit down?

The re-seller who purchases directly from Easton Press is simply prematurely draining the supply for their own personal enrichment. I can't say it is wrong but I deplore it none-the-less.

11Wootle
Feb 2, 2011, 4:02pm Top

9- I don't mind it either, that is assuming I was smart enough to pick one up direct when it was availible. :)

Besides, I imagine half of the titles they invest in, drop in value, thus, making it a risky situation buying multiples of any given title.

Although I do believe 451 would probably be a safe investment, considering the popularity of the author, the limited number printed, the design of the binding, and the fact that they are selling for more than retail while still being availible directly from Easton.

I may have to buy another copy, it really is a nice looking book, can't wait to receive it.

12Highgate
Feb 2, 2011, 4:14pm Top

Wailofatail, I suppose it depends what type of system you prefer. First come first served is all well and good but personally I think a system that allows the highest bidder to receive the item is a better outcome, because it means that the one who is willing to exchange the most value for the good ends up owning it rather than just luck of the draw.

13wailofatail
Edited: Feb 3, 2011, 12:50am Top

>12 Highgate::

Who is to say that the price that a buyer pays to the re-seller who has marked the book up 70% above Easton Press' price is the highest price anyone would pay? Perhaps somewhere else is another buyer who is not aware of the re-seller's auction that would pay 70% more than the re-seller's price. Should not the book be marked up another 70% to hold it for someone else to eventually get? The amount the re-seller receives simply reflects the perceived value of the highest bidder that was aware of the re-sellers auction at the time that the auction ended. They are providing no great service to anyone but themselves.

I would agree with you completely if indeed the re-sellers started the bidding on their books at $.01 and let their books sell (honestly) to the highest bidders, i.e. he/she who is willing to exchange the most value for the goods at that point in time. But the truth of the matter is that they don't. They list the books with 'Buy It Now' prices that often far exceed retail value as determined by Easton Press.

For any commodity sold at a fixed price only a small handful of people pay their true perceived value of that item, i.e. they who would not purchase the item if it were priced $.01 higher. Everyone else is getting a discount relative to their true perceived value. They would actually pay more than the fixed price if it were priced higher, but instead they get it at the fixed price.

Easton Press determines the fixed price to maximize efficiency and thereby profit, taking into consideration their input costs including salaries, inventory storage, and the time-value of the money between the time a book is made and the time it is sold. E/P could price their books higher and sell them more slowly but presumably it would not be as profitable to hold on to them while waiting for the next individual who would perceive value at the higher price.

That is where the re-seller takes his cut. He lives off the difference between the perceived value of a limited edition to a potential E/P collector and the price at which Easton Press sells the book in order to most profitably turn over inventory.

As an example, of the 167 members of this group, 100 of us may not be willing to pay $195 for a highly decorated, limited, signed edition of Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451. But let's say fifty of us are willing to pay up to $195. Ten of us are willing to pay as much as $295. Five of us are willing to pay as much as $395, and two of us, in the deep dark recesses of our hearts (and wallets) are actually willing to pay as much as $495. If E/P charged $495 they would sell only two books to this group at the maximum perceived value of those two buyers who value it at $495. By selling the books for $195 they instead sell 17 of them. Two of us save $300 in perceived value. Five of us save $200 in perceived value. Ten of us save $100 in perceived value. And 50 of us pay just as much as we think the book is worth.

If Easton Press charged $495.00 they would have to house the books much longer, waiting for all of the people who value the book worth $495 to find them. In the meantime they would pay expenses on the books they held, which may very well outweigh the revenue lost by selling them more quickly for less.

The re-seller recognizes and takes advantage of the disparity between the fixed price of an Easton Press limited edition and their perceived value to an Easton Press collector. Apparently the re-seller has money sitting on the sidelines and storage capacity that serves no higher purpose and so purchases quantities of limited editions like Fahrenheit 451 from Easton Press for $195.00 with the intent of sitting on them. Consequently, Easton Press sells out of these that much more quickly. After assisting in the creation of their own demand the re-seller then begins listing the books one by one 'Buy It Now' style for $495.00 each. Now the member of this group who values the book worth $495 might go to Easton Press only to find it sold out, thanks in part to the re-seller to whom he must now turn and forfeit the $300 savings of perceived value he might otherwise have saved.

Truly, those who would have paid up to $195 but can no longer get one at this price don't appreciate this nor do any who would have paid up to $495 but could have gotten one for $195. In fact, the only people likely to appreciate the re-seller are, as you mention in your original post, the people with deep pockets who come late to the game. It is my opinion that if you come late to the game that should be your loss, not the loss of someone who was there before you and certainly not the gain of the despicable re-seller.

It is Capitalism and I don't disparage that, but, as one who more often than not values E/P books more than that for which Easton Press sells them, I advocate Capitalists that innovate and bring value to people below their maximum perceived value, not Capitalist that, like leeches, suck up the differences between the prices I would ultimately pay and the prices at which Easton Press makes them available.

14EastonQuality
Feb 2, 2011, 10:50pm Top

There are countless hobbies and a number of serious collectors who seek for the greatest editions available. It reaches in all fields of collecting. What makes it so diluted is the question of when is it allowed to resell the items? At any circumstance, is it okay to resell before it is out of print or is it unethical to take advantage of the open market? Some titles over the last 15 years sold out immediately and within 30 days doubled or greater.

I consider volumes still in print should be held for personal interest, once it is out of print one is allowed to offer at the amount they wish, preferably within the market value. Some titles take a few months to be immediately increased in demand, others take years, if not ever to meet the supply and demand.

15Highgate
Feb 2, 2011, 10:58pm Top

Wail, you make several good points but resellers also help Easton provide books cheaper and in greater variety than it would be able to without them. If there were no resellers Easton would end up keeping much larger inventories on average meaning higher overhead costs that will be passed on to customers in the form of higher prices. Similarly higher storage costs would mean a lower selection of titles would be printed at a profitable price. I can understand begrudging the profit going to someone who appears to be providing little to no value, but really it is just Easton outsourcing the inventory management of its products to focus on what it is better at, namely production of books.

As for high "Buy it now" prices, that is a trade off these individuals are making, they prefer lower turnover with higher margins. In the end I think these people will get burned if they don't carefully manage the prices of their offerings. There are many more profitable places to park one's cash than Easton books.

16wailofatail
Feb 3, 2011, 12:03am Top

>15 Highgate::

Perhaps, but I don't think the re-sellers are significant enough to affect Easton's inventory in a meaningful sense. Easton Press establishes prices to move books and for the most part they are going to sell within the window of Easton's expectations. As I perceive it, it is really just a question of whose going to get them at Easton's prices, those who love Easton Press' books or those who love to profit off the backs of those who love Easton Press' books.

My sentiment is that those who really love Easton Press' books are those who perceive greater value in them than that at which they are priced, which makes these people vulnerable to those who would merely buy them simply to re-sell them to someone who really wanted one in the first place but didn't get one because the re-seller bought it instead.

17Django6924
Feb 3, 2011, 12:40pm Top

I have to agree that I pretty much put resellers in the same category as ticket scalpers. I always admired the business model George Macy set up for the LEC (and the Heritage Club), and I wish Easton Press followed that model.

18Highgate
Feb 3, 2011, 12:45pm Top

>17 Django6924: You're right that resellers are like ticket scalpers, but both provide a service to those who value the tickets or books more than the initial seller's price. Scalpers allow people who value concert tickets at more than their initial price to get tickets without having to wait in line. Similarly book resellers give purchasers who value the books more than their initial price to get a copy of the work after they have been sold out.

19astropi
Feb 3, 2011, 1:27pm Top

17: it looks like EP is heading towards an LEC model in that they seem to publishing more and more higher-quality limited edition books. As for a yearly subscription, I don't think they would do that. I do wonder if they have a limit to how many books a person could purchase. Otherwise, what's to stop a reseller from purchasing all remaining copies of 451 and then charge twice what EP is charging?

20Highgate
Feb 3, 2011, 1:53pm Top

>19 astropi: What stops them is market forces, if EP thought the market would bear twice its current price don't you think it would charge double?

21wailofatail
Edited: Feb 3, 2011, 3:09pm Top

>18 Highgate::

"(they) provide a service to those who value the ... books more than the initial seller's price"

I think you are falsely presuming that the person to whom the re-seller sells his book values it more than the person to whom Easton Press sell their books. That is what I tried to illustrate in post 13. The re-seller is selling to Easton Press' customers. However, since he beat them to the ticket booth and supplies are limited, he is now able to pilfer for himself the difference between the perceived value of the item to the Easton Press customer and the price at which Easton Press offers the book for sale.

The re-seller has added no value to the book. He simply manipulates the system in a way that transfers the potential realized savings to certain Easton Press' customers into actual cash in his pocket.

If by market forces you are referring to market efficiencies then, yes, that is what prevents EP from charging double. But clearly they could charge more to some people, to which the presence of the re-seller is testimony. Rather than letting Easton Press sell to these people at the market efficient price, however, the re-seller, by buying up limited supplies, manipulates this customer to pay an amount closer to his maximum perceived value; the difference being paid as a ransom, of sort, to the re-seller. Keep in mind that if the re-seller didn't purchase 'x' number of books in the first place, 'x' number of books would still be available through Easton Press at Easton Press' price, even though the person who purchases it from them may have been willing to pay much more.

You might argue that he who purchases from the re-seller should still be content since he was, after all, able to purchase the book at a price below, or at, his maximum perceived value, but knowing that you could have purchased it for far less kind of sours that happy thought.

You might also argue that the re-seller has added value to those E/P customers who arrive at Easton Press too late to the game to purchase a legitimate copy from E/P. There is something to be said for this argument, but I contend that the copies the re-seller purchases from Easton Press to re-sell are really just copies that would still be at Easton Press except for the re-seller. Consequently, he really has not added value. I repeat myself, but he is simply manipulating the system in order to transfer potential savings from the customer into realized gain in his pocket.

But what if Easton Press sold the book for $195 to legitimate customers who only perceived it to be worth $195 rather than to the potential customer who would have perceived it to be worth $495 had he just gotten to Easton Press sooner, you ask? Does not the re-seller provide value to that person? I would argue that that is where the legitimate second-hand market comes into play. If a person legitimately purchases a book for $195 that he only values at $195 and then discovers that another values it at $495 the first legitimate customer will sell his copy to the other for something more than $195. In the end the apparent outcome may be the same but I perceive the latter to be a legitimate extension of the market and the former to be a wart on the system imposed by an opportunist with the express purpose of manipulating it for his own gain.

Remember, if the re-seller didn't purchase 'x' copies, 'x' copies would still be available from Easton Press at the market efficient price until they sold out for as many legitimate buyers that wanted one and should a legitimate buyer who values the book more than another get to the game too late to get one from Easton Press he can still get a second hand copy from one of the legitimate Easton Press customers who got there first but value it less. There really is no need for the re-seller except in as much as they create it by purchasing up limited supplies with the sole purpose of executing their scheme.

22wailofatail
Edited: Feb 3, 2011, 2:26pm Top

Oops ... Posted same message twice.

23Highgate
Edited: Feb 3, 2011, 2:56pm Top

Wail, I don't think I'm making any unfair presumptions. If we go back to your example of various values ascribed by customers lets say there are 5 customers who would buy at $50 4 at $60 and 1 at $70 for a given book and Easton only makes 5 copies of the book and sets the price at $45 who should get the copies of the book? If there are no resellers it will be a random selection of buyers and the value received by buyers for the total 5 books would range from $250 to $310 with only one sequence of customer orders resulting in the $310 value given to customers. With resellers though only the customers who valued the book at $60 or more would own the book meaning that the books would bring a total value of $310 through fair negotiation with potential buyers. Successful resellers also provide valuable information to Easton about demand for additional print runs. Obviously with a limited edition that isn't allowed to happen but for other sets it can help Easton prioritize those books which have the strongest resale market.

24wailofatail
Feb 3, 2011, 3:12pm Top

>23 Highgate::

Was editing my previous post as you were posting yours above. Perhaps my edits address your remarks as I perceive it.

25Highgate
Feb 3, 2011, 3:21pm Top

>21 wailofatail: "In the end the apparent outcome may be the same but I perceive the latter to be a legitimate extension of the market and the former to be a wart on the system imposed by an opportunist with the express purpose of manipulating it for his own gain."

I think that is where our difference lies. I don't think the "legitimate" buyer is any different from the reseller. They both purchase based on a perceived value of the object. To me to judge between the two is a bit moralistic, like saying that the way someone is using their property doesn't conform to your norms. I want to be clear that I'm not criticizing you for that view but I think that mindset oversteps the boundaries of personal property.

26Django6924
Feb 3, 2011, 3:40pm Top

>25 Highgate:"They both purchase based on a perceived value of the object. To me to judge between the two is a bit moralistic, like saying that the way someone is using their property doesn't conform to your norms."

In a pure laissez faire economy, that may be so, but I think there is a valid argument for saying that such tactics as wailofatail are describing would be perceived as a restraint of trade, if for example, instead of it being books, the reseller were attempting to corner the market on wheat or some other staple. In fact, it's not much different than was Jay Gould's attempt to corner gold in 1869. One doesn't have to be moralistic to criticize such practices which are, to my thinking, detrimental to a free market economy. The speculation in real estate in Southern California throughout the 90s, when people who could afford it bought properties only to "flip" them later at a higher price was one of the major causes of the state's economic woes today.

27Highgate
Feb 3, 2011, 3:44pm Top

>26 Django6924: I see your point but I think it is hardly cornering a market to buy a few copies of a book for resale. It would be a very narrow definition of the market indeed to say that buying even 20 copies of a Limited Edition corners a market.

28Django6924
Edited: Feb 3, 2011, 4:20pm Top

>27 Highgate: "combinations that tend, or are designed, to eliminate or stifle competition, create a Monopoly, artificially maintain prices, or otherwise hamper or obstruct the course of trade as it would be carried on if it were left to the control of natural economic forces."

Well, let's not be narrow in our definitions: if someone buys 20 copies of a Limited Edition they diminish the supply of what would be available under normal market conditions with the sole purpose of inflating the price of the copies they control at a much greater value than would be the case under "natural economic forces." Their action seems to me to be in restraint of free trade and while not "cornering the market," is, in my opinion, detrimental to the best interests of all (except the individuals who have the money to buy that many copies).

Granted it is a gray area, and the reseller takes some risk in investing in a commodity for which there may not be a demand, but I still can not see it as a laudable endeavor.

I think the proper description of such actions are that while they may not be illegal, they constitute, in my opinion, an abuse of the system. Clearly Easton Press has targeted the individual buyer as their market, and not the reseller or speculator.

29LucasTrask
Feb 3, 2011, 4:23pm Top

I've "been late" to a limited book being sold by the publisher and wished I had known of it before it was sold out. On one or two occasions I even bought the book from a used book store (i.e., reseller) at a higher price. That does not mean I preferred to pay the higher price.

Highgate, I would be interested in your thoughts on the reseller auction on eBay for the LE Fahrenheit 451, as it was put up for auction before E/P sold out of it.

30Highgate
Feb 3, 2011, 4:30pm Top

>28 Django6924: I think we're starting to get into political economy here but personally I don't think that what resellers decide to do with their money or books is "detrimental to the best interests of all". My personal philosophy is that people do not have a claim on other people's property or what they should or should not do with it (obviously limited by the equal rights of others to enjoy their property and life). I think in order to view their actions as detrimental you have to assume that society has a right to their property in the first place, which I don't agree with.

31wailofatail
Edited: Feb 3, 2011, 4:35pm Top

>25 Highgate::

Yes, in the end it does just come down to how you view it. I wouldn't move to restrict it as I am a proponent of free markets and a Capitalist at heart. Were it up to me everything would be sold auction style in which case every item sold would go to the one who is willing to exchange the most value for the good at that particular moment. Ebay used to be great for that simple fact; not so much anymore.

But I still do make a distinction between those who purchase an item they desire to own and one who purchases it in order to squeeze from it the perceived value that another who desires to own it sees in it. It is a difficult concept to grasp because we generally never see the difference between our maximum perceived value of an item and that that we pay for it. But the re-seller does. You say that they both purchase base on a perceived value of the object, which is true, but the value he sees is not his own perceived value of that object but the difference, which he intends to swindle, between the perceived value of the book to the legitimate customer and the amount for which the legitimate customer might have been able to buy it from Easton Press.

Legal? Yes. Respectable? I guess that depends on your point of view.

32Highgate
Feb 3, 2011, 4:36pm Top

>29 LucasTrask:

I think the seller in that case is profiting from the disparity of information between buyer and seller. I don't applaud this, but I don't think its particularly wrong either. If the seller has widened the market for Easton books he has earned his premium. That being said I see nothing wrong with trying to inform buyers of those books about the cheaper alternative directly from Easton either.

33spacmann
Edited: Feb 3, 2011, 6:55pm Top

I received mine today. It's absolutely gorgeous - feels luxurious with the different colors of leather. The silk moire end sheets are bright yellow. Check out the pictures.

https://picasaweb.google.com/bookbinger2010/Fahrenheit451?authkey=Gv1sRgCP7c5Nik5Y_O9QE&feat=directlin

Update: For some reason, it's not giving a direct link - if you copy and paste you should be able to get to the web album. Enjoy!

34spacmann
Feb 3, 2011, 6:51pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

35Wootle
Feb 3, 2011, 6:58pm Top

It does look like a nice book, can't wait to get one. Your older copy of 451 sure looks dinged up.

Did you order that first day we found out about it? I did and still don't have mine. I called this morning and it hasn't even been shipped yet.

36spacmann
Feb 3, 2011, 7:03pm Top

I chose the 3-4 day option. I ordered Saturday. Yes, I just received the SMC version of Fahrenheit 451 that was clearly damaged in transit. I received it in an envelope with no postage - someone at the post office took it out of the box and repackaged it. Thankfully, there was insurance on the book and I will be filing a claim.

37WinterGloaming
Feb 3, 2011, 7:15pm Top

I am not particulary fond of these re-sellers of the LE's. Its not something I loose any sleep over but still I respect the wish for other individuals who wish to collect EP books to the extent that I would never speculate in getting multiple LE's thats just how I am.

Though selling a LE's for a higher price once it is out of print I see nothing wrong with in itself. Today I picked up my first LE, "The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius" and I only purchased one. If I decide to sell it once it is out of print for lets say 300USD then thats ok for me, because I have originally wanted the book and decided to get wrid of it passing it to someone else wanting to have it, and once it potentially would be gone I would have to be prepared to pay the same in order to get another copy myself.

Having multiple LE's only for the sake of making money on others who may very well have been aware of getting the book at the original EP price is something I find to be in bad taste. I know many would say that it is how buisness works and thats fine, but for me I view this (for me new) territory of collecting nice editions of books as something that if joyful and adds extra dimensions to my interest in reading and becuase of that I would want as many to take part of it as possible.

38SilentInAWay
Feb 3, 2011, 8:08pm Top

I'd be satisfied if EP limited purchases to two per person (or address, or account) for most LEs and one per person for the more restricted LEs (400 or fewer copies).

39kdweber
Feb 3, 2011, 8:36pm Top

I have a hard time believing that anyone can make a living buying EP books at retail and selling them for more. I've bought quite a few used EP volumes and I've always paid less than the price at which they were issued. Almost all books go down in value. Almost all LEC books sell for less (inflation adjusted) than their issue price and less than what it would cost to make them today. Older Folio Society volumes have huge discounts to their issue or even sale price (for unread copies). It's hard to predict which few volumes will dramatically rise in price after the original limitation is sold out.

40Django6924
Feb 3, 2011, 9:10pm Top

>39 kdweber:

While that is usually true, Ken, one only has to check the prices of the LEC Fahrenheit 451 to know that this one will probably increase fairly substantially. Also, I have noticed over the past 10 years a steady increase in the price of Fine and Mint condition LECs. When I bought my LEC Vanity Fair back in the late 80s, I paid $25 for it (in Fine Condition with original dust jackets and slipcase in Fine Condition. The same set today would sell for over $100 if one can judge by the online prices, and this is not really in the same league of desirability as anything signed by Covarrubias, Szyk or Angelo.

Of course what I am saying only applies to the EP LEs--you are right about the standard EP books--there were just too many of them printed.

41Highgate
Feb 3, 2011, 9:22pm Top

>40 Django6924: That Vanity Fair return is only about 6.5% annually if it was bought in '88 and given the level of risk involved I would say that's a pretty low return. Mind you I don't think its a poor choice if you enjoy it over all those years but for a reseller there are just too many more attractive investments that they could have put their money in to consider that a wise investment.

42Django6924
Feb 3, 2011, 9:35pm Top

>41 Highgate:

It was a better return than my 401k over the same period! (And that investment, being intangible, gave me no pleasure whatsoever.)

But my point is that it was an LEC of AVERAGE desirability. The LEC Fahrenheit 451 has increased in value from 10 to 20 times its subscription cost.

And anyway, this is still besides the point. I'm with wailofatail and all those who think resellers spoil the collecting experience for the rest of us. If you aren't buying it because you love it and want it for yourself, then you are just like the people who hoarded during WW II--only in this case there's no law against it.

43Highgate
Feb 3, 2011, 9:45pm Top

>42 Django6924: I have no doubt that many will agree with you, I suppose I feel they are demonized more than they deserve not unlike poor Shylock. Having also been victim of misunderstanding regarding my profession I suppose I can sympathize more than most with the plight of the outcast trader.

44Django6924
Feb 3, 2011, 10:59pm Top

>43 Highgate:

Perhaps if you would care to elaborate on their "plight," it may make us view things in a different light.

45Highgate
Edited: Feb 3, 2011, 11:15pm Top

>44 Django6924: Their plight is to be ever vilified for simply buying books and storing them until someone who valued them more than the cost of purchase, storage, transaction costs and profits made the decision to purchase them. If I'm looking for a pristine copy of something that has been out of print for some time, the best chance to find it in fine to as new quality is with one of these resellers. They essentially keep books unspoiled for those of us who have only learned about these books recently but who may value them more than people who knew about them years before.

46Django6924
Feb 3, 2011, 11:20pm Top

I hadn't realized they had such an altruistic mission. I thought they were just doing it for the money....

47Highgate
Feb 4, 2011, 12:12am Top

>46 Django6924:

"He intends only his own security; and by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value, he intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention. Nor is it always the worse for the society that it was not part of it. By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it. I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good. It is an affectation, indeed, not very common among merchants, and very few words need be employed in dissuading them from it." - Adam Smith

48wailofatail
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 1:06am Top

"... by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value ..."

The same could be said of a thief. Of course, Mr. Smith's comment is based on the presumption that the industry at hand is of benefit to another besides he who intends only his own gain. It is my contention that the re-seller produces nothing nor contributes anything of value. He is simply gaming the system for his own personal gain. You say he is preserving books for you. I say he is holding them hostage from me for, in fact, he will sell one to me as quickly as to you the day after Easton Press sells out, (even before Easton Press sells out as the case may be), but for twice the price Easton Press charges. Had he not bought his copies with no intention other than to charge ransom for them the opportunity would still have existed for me to buy it from Easton Press at the efficient market price.

"A business that makes nothing but money is a poor kind of business." - Henry Ford

49Highgate
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 10:03am Top

>48 wailofatail:

Surely you are not comparing resellers to thieves, for they have paid for their books as surely as you or I have. They are no more thieves than you, yourself might be called a thief for having taken more value out of an Easton book than you have paid to Easton. In fact these "thieves" are merely sharing in the spoils that you yourself have "stolen" from Easton. We all know there must be honour among thieves ;P.

If a reseller sold to you for the same price he would have sold to me several years later he has still performed a function of better allocating resources to those individuals who prize them most. You would clearly have valued the book more than me if you were willing to pay the same price immediately that I would pay only 3 years hence. Since you valued the book more than me you deserve to own it.

We can also look back to the initial sales of books, personally if I am not the buyer of the book myself I would prefer the buyer to be a reseller who will take care to preserving the value of the book than a collector who values the book only at its selling price and so destroys value by writing in the margins, adding bookplates, allowing mold and dust to grow on the gilding, etc. I do not judge these rival collectors for how they treat their books but clearly as a potential collector of that book I would prefer it remain in the hands of someone who will maintain its value until such time as I am prepared to purchase the book.

Finally to address the Henry Ford quote, leave it to the inventor of the modern assembly line to dismiss the value of services. Would we consider a company like UPS a poor kind of business because it doesn't make things but instead provides logistic services? If we are to dismiss services then surely 2/3 of the American economy is valueless.

50Django6924
Feb 4, 2011, 10:05am Top

>49 Highgate: Surely there must be honour among thieves

A trim reckoning. Far from being a conservationist, the type of reseller we object to would sell the books for double what he paid for them before he has even received them from Easton.

51jlabeatnik
Feb 4, 2011, 10:08am Top

So -- anyhow. I am putting my order in today. Woot!

52EastonQuality
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 10:25am Top

>49 Highgate:

I would consider the immediate resellers 'opportunists', not thieves. The ones to be offered the books later have the right to not bid and wait for a collector who is done reading or moving on. It is considered very optimistic to re list an item still in print.

The ones considered thieves are those who requests the seller to end early, twice the punch includes ending early canceling another bidder & the item for re listing for their gain at a lower than market value. Or the third are buyers who claim they have not received the package when they did so & know it or want a partial refund on a false claim.

53LipstickAndAviators
Feb 4, 2011, 10:27am Top

51> I might put in an order if Easton ever replied to me with cost or us people in the UK! Argh!

54SpoonFed
Feb 4, 2011, 10:34am Top

>53 LipstickAndAviators:: Me too! This is the third time I've emailed them... I know that I should just give them a call, but it's annoying.

55Highgate
Feb 4, 2011, 10:34am Top

>53 LipstickAndAviators: Customer service has been out of the office for a few days due to inclement weather so there may be a backlog of emails that they are working through. Might be worthwhile to just call them.

56LipstickAndAviators
Feb 4, 2011, 10:39am Top

Since I only have a contract mobile phone which doesn't include international calls I don't like calling abroad :-( This is particularly stupid of me with my girlfriend in America. Maybe I can try calling from my workphone...

I might just wait for them to get to me in their backlog.

57EastonQuality
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 3:00pm Top

Considering the situation, I think the volume will sell out within two weeks. If you are foreign, find a friend who can order one in America this week. It is now the best seller for recent editions and all of the signed editions that are posted on the site.

58ironjaw
Feb 4, 2011, 11:37am Top

I am in Denmark, and have always had pleasant correspondence with Cindi via email.

I was originally considering not to buy any more books this month but after reading this thread and seeing the pictures on ebay, I went ahead and ordered Farenheit 451.

59Quicksilver66
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 11:41am Top

> 58

Likewise here in the UK. Never had any problems with Christine who is always quick. Maybe its a busy day for them - I know they have had heavy snow out there so they may be low on staff today.

60SpoonFed
Feb 4, 2011, 11:47am Top

Perhaps I'm just unlucky. I emailed about placing an order a few months ago, then again two weeks ago and again two days ago. I thought that maybe they were just inefficient or slow (I've dealt with quite a few publishers like that!) but judging from the responses here that's not the case. I'll give them a call to see what I can sort out - it's possible my emails have gone to their spam folder!

61SirFolio16
Feb 4, 2011, 11:57am Top

I have gone ahead and ordered it as well. Between what I have read here and all of the pictures it was just too much for me to let this one slip away....

62LipstickAndAviators
Feb 4, 2011, 12:09pm Top

I've been corresponding with Lana, and I've only once had an email returned within a working day. I know there are different timezones and probably a backlog of work, but it's not very conducive to making me want to deal with them if take forever to answer (and then often skip over and provide no answer to half my questions).

I hope I can get this ordered before it sells out! Might be worth buying a £5 callign card from tesco just to get a phonecall in instead.

63wailofatail
Feb 4, 2011, 12:15pm Top

>49 Highgate::

Not a thief, per se, but an opportunist at best. My point was that Adam Smith's quote could applicably apply to a thief unless you agree to the premise that the industry to which one applies oneself must, in some way, promote the interest of society, intended or otherwise. That is, industry must provide value to another and not purely add to self gain. A thief acts only in his own interest but because his industry is to no one's gain but his own, Mr. Smith's comments are not applicable to him. Because the re-seller's industry also adds no value to society, Mr. Smith's comments are equally inapplicable to him.

Again, if the re-seller purchases the last available copy from Easton Press for $195 with the sole intent of re-selling it for $495 and I value the book worth $495 but show up half a second after the re-seller purchases the last copy, I now must pay $495 to the re-seller for the book I could have bought from Easton Press for $195. The re-seller has added no value nor provided any service I could not have received directly from Easton Press for less. The re-seller has merely manipulated the free market to transfer the difference between my perceived value of the book and the market efficient price of the book from my pocket to his. It feels very much like theft, even if it is not in a legal sense.

Your remarks that the re-seller takes better care of his books than the collector don't convince me. On the one hand you indicate that collectors will write in the margins, add bookplates, and allow mold and dust to grow on the gilding and then you refer to yourself as a collector who wants a pristine copy. I contend that some, in fact most, collectors diligently attempt to preserve the condition of their books. The truth of the matter is that many Easton Press books are never removed from their shrink-wrap, even by collectors who buy them with a genuine desire to own them. In the event you miss the opportunity to purchase directly from Easton Press, and provided your perceived value of the book is greater than the perceived value of the original collector, he will sell his copy to you.

The difference between this collector and the re-seller is that the collector did not purchase his copy with the premeditated objective of swindling from his fellow collector the difference between the market efficient price and the perceived value of the book to the other collector. The re-seller did.

Moralistic? Perhaps. But, despite what many believe, you cannot truly separate ethics and freedom.

Referring to government, Charles Carroll, signer of the Declaration of Independence stated, "Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Vaclav Havel, President of the Czech Republic expounded on this theme, stating, "Without commonly shared and widely entrenched moral values and obligations, neither the law, nor democratic government, nor even the market economy will function properly."

Just because one's industry is legal does not make it valuable to society and if it is not valuable to society but instead takes advantage of society for the sole gain of the individual is it moral, and if it is immoral is it not worthy of revilement?

64Highgate
Feb 4, 2011, 12:27pm Top

>63 wailofatail: Very colourful language to describe the buying and selling of books, to me it seems only semantics differentiate the reseller from the collector who leaves his books in the shrink wrap in pristine condition. I don't think the resellers "take advantage of society" any more than the collector who leaves his books in pristine condition. The difference seems only that the reseller articulates the price at which he is willing to sell while said collector needs to be asked his selling price.

65kdweber
Feb 4, 2011, 12:58pm Top

>63 wailofatail: "Without morals a republic cannot subsist..."
Reminds me of the motto of my alma mater "Leges sine moribus vanae".

66wailofatail
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 1:03pm Top

>64 Highgate::

Is the difference between accidental homicide and premeditated murder only semantics? The second party is dead either way.

67LipstickAndAviators
Feb 4, 2011, 1:10pm Top

>66 wailofatail:

I'd say from the dead guy's perspective it probably is.

It's all an interesting argument but I don't think many of us are ever going tot hink highly of book resellers. Probably partially because we have vested interests in reasonably priced books.

Possibly aprtially because of that whole moral thing most of us are born or raised with where various things seem wrong even though we can't explain why. For the christians among us I think Jesus did say we shouldn't buy and sell on (or lend) with interest though?

68HunterWoolf
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 1:15pm Top

All this talk about resellers is crazy. In the end the early bird catches the worm. Everyone is entitled to buy easton press books whether they be for indulgence or with the intent to resell. Once a LE has sold out it's value instantly increases, so it's only normal that the reseller would hike the prices up. I think reselling is perfect for newcomers and people who can't afford every LE or book about to go out of print. I just brought the narnia series from a reseller, a hefty price from the original EP sale but it's out of print and without the reseller I would not have the chance to own these lovely books. Some of you said that if the reseller didn't buy bulk LE's etc then the public would have a chance to get them at the normal EP price instead of an inflated one but in the end someone is always going to miss out, theres not enough LE's for every single collector on earth. Resellers give a second chance to those who miss out or simply want the book more.
Well anyway, that's how I see it.

69wailofatail
Feb 4, 2011, 1:19pm Top

Clearly Team Jacob, I see! ; )

70LipstickAndAviators
Feb 4, 2011, 1:21pm Top

>68 HunterWoolf:

I think we understand the argument perfectly well.

it doesn't mean that:
1) It is morally correct (to everyone at least)
or
2) We have to like resellers

I do agree it's a case of early bird... though. If you want it bad enough you should have been first in line (of course this isn't always possible).

I'd say arguably as well there would still be resale without professional resellers, normal people clearing out their houses etc who may sell for Easton list price or less. Though admittedly much less than there are now.

71lxanderl
Feb 4, 2011, 1:23pm Top

>68 HunterWoolf:

"In the end the early bird catches the worm."

"but it's out of print and without the reseller I would not have the chance to own these lovely books."

O.o

72LucasTrask
Feb 4, 2011, 1:29pm Top

Wailofatail wrote:
Is the difference between accidental homicide and premeditated murder only semantics? The second party is dead either way.


You might be surprised. I was on a jury for a murder trial and the decision between first and second degree murder came down to semantics.

73Highgate
Feb 4, 2011, 1:29pm Top

>71 lxanderl: In this case the worm is the excess value or profit of the book over the selling price. Then both statements make sense.

74lxanderl
Feb 4, 2011, 1:37pm Top

>73 Highgate:
Actually no, I believe the worm is the book, the bird is the buyer/reseller. "Everyone is entitled to buy easton press books whether they be for indulgence or with the intent to resell." It's still internally consistent, I just found it amusing.

75kdweber
Feb 4, 2011, 1:53pm Top

and yet, we all love a good used bookstore

76wailofatail
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 1:55pm Top

Given Easton Press' business practices of mailing flyers to high volume, repeat customers first, these re-sellers have the advantage. The re-seller highlighted near the top of this post had his copy for sale before this group of undeniably enthusiastic collectors and customers were even aware it had been published. He nearly beat Easton Press to the public at large with his listing on Ebay, in which he announces having purchased more than one copy. I fully expect when the copy currently listed sells (currently for more than it is available at Easton Press) he will list another in its place.

>71 lxanderl:: In the analogy presented the excess value or profit of the book over the selling price is indeed the worm to the re-seller, though in this case I think the analogy would be more appropriately stated, "The early worm catches the worm."

Isn't that cannibalism? Isn't cannibalism premeditated murder? C'mon! He's guilty of something! =)

77SilentInAWay
Feb 4, 2011, 2:35pm Top

All this talk of worms and Easton Press books in the same sentence is giving me the creeps. Cut it out!!

78wailofatail
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 2:46pm Top

The auction for the limited, signed edition of Fahrenheit 451, which spurred much of the dialogue in this thread, has closed with a high bid of $256.01 plus $7.55 s/h, at least to my U.S. address, for a total cost of $263.56. That is a premium of 35% above the $195.00 price at which this book is currently still available directly through Easton Press, which includes s/h.

I know, I know, this re-seller provided a service to the buyer who did not know he could buy one directly from Easton Press and otherwise would not have the pleasure of owning one.

Heck! What am I doing here? I'm off to Easton Press to buy a stack of these myself.

Thanks for all the fun and well-contemplated dialogue! If nothing else we at least got that little activity meter over on the right hand side of my screen all the way to the limit.

79Django6924
Feb 4, 2011, 2:46pm Top

>74 lxanderl:
I think you've got it wrong--the worm is the reseller....

>76 wailofatail:
Yes, used bookstores sell books--and not at exorbitant prices--that someone else has used and passed along.

80LucasTrask
Feb 4, 2011, 3:18pm Top

Actually, the seller had three listings:

A Best Offer for $349 list on about Jan-28-11 16:03:54 PST which ended on Jan-31-11 15:52:02 PST

An auction starting at $275 with a Buy It Now of $348 listed on Jan-29-11 10:38:55 PST for 1 day (ended Jan-30-11 10:38:55 PST)

An auction starting at 0.99¢ (with a reserve of $20?) listed on Jan-30-11 11:24:04 PSTwhich ended (sold for $256.01) on Feb-04-11 11:24:04 PST

If you have an ebay account you can see all three here (I hope): http://completed.shop.ebay.com/i.html?MA2ShowItems&_ipg=50&_sadis=200&am...

The second auction looks like a relisting of the first auction. I'm not sure what the Best Offer list was for, unless it was to gage how much buyers were willing to pay.

81indigosky
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 7:01pm Top

Yep, you pro-reseller folks are convincing me to buy some Fahrenheit 451's, hold them, and sell them later for a profit.

BTW, some of you are saying that these resellers are doing people a service by holding these books in an environment that preserves it's value. Well, how do you know? Maybe I've got your future plastic wrapped LE stashed away in a subtropical climate. Maybe I spilled my Lapsang Souchong on it. That plastic does have tiny holes. Maybe my cat sleeps on it. Plastic wrap does not ensure that your book will be pristine.

82Highgate
Feb 4, 2011, 3:46pm Top

I actually think without plastic wrap is better personally as long as you have the ability to return if you don't like what you receive.

83lxanderl
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 5:00pm Top

So do you guys think there's any chance this one will be like The Raven, published by someone not EP, just wrapped in a pretty package? At that price, I hope it isn't.

>79 Django6924: Yours is of course a relevant analogy on this topic of resellers; however, he juxtaposed the two statements like this : "In the end the early bird catches the worm. Everyone is entitled to buy easton press books whether they be for indulgence or with the intent to resell." He's saying that a reseller have as much of a right to buy a book as anyone else, so if the reseller grabs it - the worm - before someone buying for pleasure, it's just as much rightfully the reseller's as it would be if someone buying for pleasure bought it. (I could be wrong, but then I would blame his misleading message construction for confusing me :P)

edited for clarity

84EastonQuality
Feb 4, 2011, 4:40pm Top

I think it's a bit crazy to sell so early, couldn't they wait until after three months of out of print? The return would be better than any investing techniques these days, it takes time for a rapid increase in demand. Listing now only works for ones who don't check the official web page.

85Highgate
Feb 4, 2011, 4:42pm Top

>83 lxanderl: I don't think its published by someone else, but I think its a reprint of the LEC edition as was mentioned earlier, if that's what you mean.

86lxanderl
Feb 4, 2011, 4:53pm Top

>84 EastonQuality: Probably the same reason that preorders of certain things are cheaper: no one knows whether the product is, as a final product, well-made or worth the price, because no one has had it in hand to review yet. Maybe the more conservative resellers consider it safer to get some return on a book which, although it has the potential to increase in value later, also has the potential decrease in value later on.

>85 Highgate: As long as it has good production values :D

87kdweber
Feb 4, 2011, 5:01pm Top

It's a reprint of the earlier LEC edition (which EP has done before both signed and unsigned), with the addition of some new illustrations, bold cover and a slipcase. The signed EPs start at around $250. The LEC version was bound in aluminum (foil) and signed by both the author and the illustrator. It sells for $300 and up on the secondary market. Another signed limited (504 copies?) edition bound in cloth with slipcover by Grahm? in 2005 also sells on the used market starting at $300. I'd guess this edition will also sell for $300 once it sells out. Ray Bradbury has signed a lot of books over the years. I read somewhere that for one edition of one of his books he signed 13000 times! Signed hardcover volumes of Fahrenheit 451 can be found starting at around $50 (trade editions of course).

88Django6924
Feb 4, 2011, 5:02pm Top

>86 lxanderl:

The original 1953 LEC edition is fabulous--great illustrations by Bradbury's favorite illustrator, Joe Mugnaini.

89astropi
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 5:22pm Top

Just reiterating what kdweber said in 87... Although for the most part this book is a reprint of the LEC edition (which is spectacular), it does include illustrations not found in the original. Also, the LEC book sells (typically) for $300+ dollars. At least I should say it tries to sell for that amount (that's what most sellers are asking). I am glad EP released this book, they are doing people who want a beautiful and signed copy of 451 a real service. No doubt, this book will appreciate in value quickly. Also it's true that Bradbury has signed thousands upon thousands of copies of his books. Still, there is something special about owning a book that is personally signed by the author :)

90lxanderl
Feb 4, 2011, 5:29pm Top

> 87, 88 Sounds fabulous, and fabulously priced accordingly ! I'm curious on how the foil worked as a binding...it must have been thick or it would've torn easily, no?

At this point I've pretty much been convinced I need to buy a copy. I don't even have a softcover copy of F451, and I've been meaning to reread it for the first time outside of a high school classroom environment. That combined with EP's timing on what seems to be a beautiful edition...

91wailofatail
Feb 4, 2011, 6:00pm Top

I'm considering buying all that are left in stock and then burning all of them except two, one to keep and one to finance all of the others. With the supply so sorely limited I'm sure I can make it work to my financial gain. All of you had better hurry before I pick up the phone.

P.S. Since my last post gilded-legacy-books has listed one 'Buy-It-Now' style for $279.99 plus s/h and thebestalways, aka gabrielac, aka the subject of our previous discussion, has listed another with a 'Buy-It-Now' price of $298.00 plus s/h. So glad they are preserving these for those who won't make it to Easton Press soon enough to 'Buy-It-Then' for $195, in part because they are each sitting on a stacks of them. F.Y.I. I'm going to buy their copies and burn them too.

*(evil laugh fading into echo)*

92celtic
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 6:34pm Top

This is the first time I've looked through the messages of this group. Interesting group.

This thread kicked off with someone pointing out that a new limited edition of Fahreneit 451 was up on sale by, what is called a 'reseller' (I've worked out in this case that is someone who buys a newly published book ,or 2, 3, 4...., for no other reason than to make a profit). It also would seem that reading through the other threads that it is quite common with Easton Press Limited editions.

I was also amazed when I worked out that the first e-bay copies were on sale before, what I would assume, are some of the most committed and loyal customers even knew of it's existence , had even recieved a 'brochure' - and the first copy(ies) of this book in someones hands is to a so called reseller followed by the person(s) who bought it from them at price higher than the published one that hasn't even been charged to a 'normal' customer yet.

As has been said there is no law against this and people can buy a book and do with their own property what they want, but I admit I feel negative about this practise - but that isn't why I write.

What has struck me is underneath the messages there runs a current of mounting panic, in some, that ratchets up the need to get a copy of the book at the published price before they run out.

If anything, the actions of the reseller and the debate taking place would appear to be a great help in helping easton shift more books, more quickly. If this reseller fear, with the subsequent worry about availability and future hikes in prices 'sets in' added to limited editions of fairly low numbers in relation to Eastons market, then the rush to buy copies will only increase and, perhaps, some more people will be tempted to also jump on the resellers bandwagon and so on.......

So, depending on Eastons stance - the balance between the image of a highly respected bookseller supplying fine leather-bound books with high typographic standards to discerning customers, balanced with making a reasonable profit // and the desire to make as much profit as possible, whatever - the reseller could be one of their best (not by design) marketing tools!

Of course, they could solve this developing situation by simply raising the amount of copies for each limited edition or controlling the amount each customer can buy.

In any case, it would seem that what was a desirable book worthy of consideration has become a must have - NOW!

The reseller should ask for commission.

93Quicksilver66
Feb 4, 2011, 6:18pm Top

> 92

You may have hit the nail on the head Celtic.

The ebay seller is probably Easton Press in disguise - deliberately creating a panic to shift more books and selling a few on ebay for an inflated price into the bargain.

Welcome to the wacky - but ultimately rewarding - world of Easton Press.

94celtic
Feb 4, 2011, 6:24pm Top

>94 celtic:

Cheers Quicksilver.

You're spending too much time here - it's gone quiet on the 'devotees' site get back to the FS! :-)

As a marketing idea - it would've been a a very profitable one.

95AgaEP
Feb 4, 2011, 6:25pm Top

All of these posts are turning this book into a Tulip frenzy. The book will be around for a while and the price is not going to shoot to the moon once it is sold out. I am sure the resellers and Easton Press are digging the free publicity. This is social networking at its best! No marketing fees paid by Easton Press, and yet every one of their core customers and all of their friends are chomping at the bit to buy this book.

96lxanderl
Edited: Feb 4, 2011, 6:34pm Top

>92 celtic:, 93 That's a good point. It's fully possible that some of the resellers are EP agents, working purposefully with EP's full consent and approval. If it is EP behind this, that would fully answer >84 EastonQuality:. Clever, sneaky, and a win-win for them.

Manipulation or not, though, I am still probably going to get a copy because it's a book I actually want. Any of the other LEs, put in a similar situation with limited stocks and high-priced resells before the official offer to the general customer, if I have no interest in its contents, I won't manufacture an interest in getting.

97wailofatail
Feb 4, 2011, 7:35pm Top

Sorry lxanderl. I called and ordered all four hundred and fifty-one of the remaining copies and am preparing the fire pit out back between posts where I plan to burn them. Of course, if you want a copy, I plan to preserve one, in mint condition, still shrink-wrapped, which can be yours for a mere four hundred and fifty-one thousand dollars.

98lxanderl
Feb 4, 2011, 7:50pm Top

>97 wailofatail: don't worry. I snagged a copy off of ebay from a reseller for a mere $451. Praise the eternal gods for resellers.

99Django6924
Feb 4, 2011, 11:47pm Top

>90 lxanderl:

The aluminum makes a extremely attractive, but somewhat delicate material for binding. Don't get me wrong--it's not thin like Reynolds wrap and prone to tearing--it's not so much foil as a thin sheet of aluminum; what it is prone to is scuffing and denting. My copy is in what is usually called "Unread" condition. I can't find any bends or creases in any of the pages, and I doubt that the previous owner ever did more than look at the illustrations. However the cover has three longish dents--almost like someone had laid the book face down on a small metal ball the size of a beebee and rolled it over with some pressure. These dents are not objectionable to me, and to my taste the cover is still the most striking on any LEC from the 1980s--and one of the best ever, for that matter--but for those who like to maintain an As New look to their books, this one requires kid gloves handling--literally.

100hamletscamaro
Feb 5, 2011, 2:03pm Top

>97 wailofatail:, wail, just remember to take one of the copies and fully photograph it before you burn all but your shrink wrapped copy. That way you can fully demonstrate the beauty of the lone remaining copy. Just a suggestion.

101kdweber
Feb 5, 2011, 4:03pm Top

>99 Django6924: Django, what about the silver slipcover on the LEC? My experience has been that the metallic slipcases don't hold up as well.

102iluvbeckett
Feb 5, 2011, 9:30pm Top

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451#Printings

>97 wailofatail: Wail, you'd better track down the 200 asbestos-bound copies from the original printing and corner the market on them too :-)

103Django6924
Feb 5, 2011, 11:43pm Top

>101 kdweber:

The slipcase on the LEC is more fragile than the book. Mine hasn't shown any signs of peeling yet, but it is very scuffed, and I think were I to handle it too much, it might start coming apart around the glued seams. (It's still not nearly as fragile as the copper foil of the LEC Moll Flanders--on my slipcase the foil has completely disappeared from the sides (but the book itself is pristine.)

104EastonQuality
Edited: Feb 12, 2011, 12:08am Top

>103 Django6924:

Thanks for the warning, I protect the books as much as possible, more expensive ones are placed into cloth bags. Can't look at it as much as normal volumes, but well worth protecting.

For storing the books so they will not curve on the leather, there are multiple ways the books may curve. Hot & cold weather or humidity will definitely hurt the book, too bad there is not much of a way to avoid shipping during winter. Room temperature pressed together lightly and the larger books heavier than three pounds on their sides to prevent the spine from bending downward.

Received my 451 today, fantastic looking boxed up!

105cweller
Feb 14, 2011, 6:17pm Top

Just received my copy, #350 in the mail today and it's gorgeous.

106Wootle
Feb 14, 2011, 6:22pm Top

How long ago did you order? I ordered that first day and still haven't seen it at my house.

107Wootle
Feb 14, 2011, 6:46pm Top

Speak of the devil. UPS just dropped mine off, excellent volume.

108cweller
Feb 14, 2011, 7:41pm Top

I ordered mine on Feb. 1st. I was quite surprised it arrived so quickly.

109LucasTrask
Edited: Feb 16, 2011, 9:17pm Top

I placed my order by email on 28 January I received my copy (#88) yesterday. I agree it is gorgeous and I also think it is the perfect size. I read the introduction and I was not aware that Bradbury had written a play with the characters.

110iluvbeckett
Feb 17, 2011, 11:21pm Top

I got my copy from UPS today (#511; wonder who will get/has gotten #451?!!), having ordered it Feb. 2d. -So about two weeks, very quick service! And yes, it's very impressive and a handy size for reading, too (unlike say, oh, the Kelmscott Chaucer or Crusades :-/ ).

111astropi
Edited: Feb 18, 2011, 2:21pm Top

110: very true! copy #451 will indeed by golden :)
I have to say the Crusades are not that bad. Yes, they're large, but they're no elephant folio! Plus you can really admire Dore's work at that size. The only downside, no slipcase nor box. I will most likely make one out of wood (I really feel that a good book deserves a good slipcase, or solander box as case may be)!

112LonghornRancher
Feb 18, 2011, 4:41pm Top

Maybe someone found 451. Just saw a copy going for 7995.00 on ebay. Sale ends in 29 days. Typo or 451? i looked at it and the seller didn't say what number it is.

113Wootle
Feb 18, 2011, 4:59pm Top

112- That's not the limited edition.

Another funny one, Gabrielac has the 5 vol Tokien at $8994.00 Maybe he got Tolkien to sign them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lord-Rings-JRR-Tolkien-Easton-Press-5-Volume-New-/3504411105...

114astropi
Feb 18, 2011, 5:18pm Top

113: that's really on the low side, if we're considering Zimbabwe dollars. Or maybe he's delivering them in person, by helicopter.

115EastonQuality
Feb 18, 2011, 5:42pm Top

< 113
this must be a typo on eBay, it has to be an error by gabrielac by accident 9k?..

>112 LonghornRancher:
451 listed 79.95, there are quite a few errors that come up, the period on their keyboard must be jammed for both sellers.

116indigosky
Feb 18, 2011, 8:45pm Top

112: Hey, at least you'd earn $160 in ebay bucks.

$8000 for a Fahrenheit 451 from the 20th Century collection? Are they crazy?! I HOPE their key is stuck.

117AnnieMod
Feb 19, 2011, 11:18pm Top

Just came back from a business trip and #10 was waiting for me. I would have expected them to ship in some semblance of order (I know I ordered pretty late) so I was surprised to get such a low number but oh well :)

118wailofatail
Feb 20, 2011, 2:04am Top

Perhaps they bind them in sequential order, stack them on pallets, and then sell them from the top of the pallet down. As orders come in, the first people to order get high six-hundreds and those who get the last of the bunch get the low numbers. Just a thought ... ?

119AnnieMod
Feb 20, 2011, 2:18am Top

Maybe :) I do not complain.

Just looked up the order date: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 so same day as iluvbeckett. When both orders had been officially sent for sending out is another story though.

It's definitely something about the way they order them in the pallets from where they send them.

120iluvbeckett
Feb 20, 2011, 11:09pm Top

>118 wailofatail:, 119 The very thought of a great load of them on pallets gives me the willies, all that weight can't be good for the copies on the bottom of the stack - but with them presumably flying out of the warehouse it's alright since they're not sitting there for long!

121Wootle
Feb 20, 2011, 11:17pm Top

They're packed probably 20-24 to a box, and then palletized, I would think. So they wouldn't directly be weighted down by the ones above.

122dixonmd
Feb 24, 2011, 12:51am Top

Got one today (number 561 of 700)! It's a fantastic edition and I don't regret buying it for a second. I ordered it less than a week ago so I was excited that it arrived so quickly.

"Burn 'em to ashes, then burn the ashes. That's our official slogan."

123islandbooks
Feb 24, 2011, 12:49pm Top

I finally got the confirmation from Kimberly at EP that my copy of Fahrenheit will ship next week! I can't wait.....

124spacmann
Mar 24, 2011, 9:10am Top

I noticed this has now disappeared from the Deluxe Limited Edition section on the Easton Press website. Anyone know if this is definitively sold out. I know I've seen a lot of them on Ebay.

125ironjaw
Edited: Mar 24, 2011, 9:35am Top

Hi Angela, I just received my copy yesterday and if my memory serves me right the limitation number on mine was quite high. I think 674 or something like that out of 700 and I ordered over a month ago

126LucasTrask
Mar 24, 2011, 10:14am Top

127WinterGloaming
Mar 24, 2011, 10:59am Top

Wow it sold out fast indeed, perhaps an indication that for certain titles they could very well have a higher printing volume in order to earn more money.

128Wootle
Mar 24, 2011, 11:12am Top

It did last longer than we expected, almost 2 months.

127- The larger print run might have actually hurt sales though, if some people are buying because of the limited availibility.

129wailofatail
Mar 24, 2011, 11:14am Top

The hype surrounding the "limited" aspect of the limited editions is part of their attraction. The number of people who purchased this book is significantly lower than the number of books available with those purchasing multiple copies looking to make a quick profit re-selling them.

I've been tracking and already their have been thirteen second-hand copies sold on Ebay since this edition became available for purchase at Easton Press. It wouldn't surprise me if as many as 15% of the sales of this book were duplicate purchases.

130spacmann
Mar 24, 2011, 11:59am Top

>129 wailofatail: Seems like there have been much more.

131EastonQuality
Mar 30, 2011, 2:14pm Top

Over half the limited editions are difficult to tell if they will increase in value, for the Fahrenheit it is on the border line. Sales on eBay were between $140-$265, it may take a few years until a gradual increase that stays in place.

132islandbooks
Mar 31, 2011, 11:13am Top

Today I received 'my' Fahrenheit, #558. It's much nicer than I thought! Of course the binding, the yellow moire endpapers, the yellow ribbon marker, the slipcase. But also the typography and beautiful illustrations.
It's my first EP LE after having bought a couple of FS LE's. If this is the EP standard than it surpasses Folio Society at least when it comes to value for money.
I'm happy :)

133astropi
Mar 31, 2011, 11:33am Top

132: Nice to hear someone say that EP > FS in some cases (you'll never hear that on the FS group :)
any chance you could post pics?

134LipstickAndAviators
Edited: Mar 31, 2011, 11:57am Top

>133 astropi:

I think a few of the guys at the folio board like QuickSilver have said that Easton fine/limited edition volumes are often better value than Folio Society ones.

I think most of the guys who badmouth Easton over on the FS board have only tried the obvious series such as the 100 greatest, which to be honest usually ar just reprints of older version and often are in fairly dull bindings.

Like islandbooks was saying I think Easton Press has much more affordable prices on their LEs, though since I don't own any Folio Society LEs (exacpt Alice's Adventures Undergorund which barely counts) I can't really comment on which is better.

I love both companies for different reasons and I think both are coming out with more impressive books now than they were 10+ years ago (I just wish Easton would sort out that damn website!).

I'm still eagerly awaiting my fahrenheit copy.

135astropi
Mar 31, 2011, 12:21pm Top

134: true, I just get tired of all their EP criticms which are often unfounded. I personally think that the FS LEs are typically wonderful. Very high quality production values, but NOT necessarily worth the cost. The EP LE Romance is just as nice as any FS LE in my opinion, but costs around $350. Still, a lot of money, but if it was a FS LE, my guess is it would be between $800-1000. However, the FS does produce some LEs which I don't think EP will ever produce (such as the recent Sharpe's Birds of Paradise). So some FS LEs may be worth saving up for, but then again you could purchase 2-3 EP LEs for the cost of 1 FS LE. That's how it goes :) At any rate, enjoy the LE 451, I'm sure you'll love it!

136WinterGloaming
Mar 31, 2011, 12:53pm Top

> 135

The price difference on the LE was actually one of the first things that I noticed when I started to browse the EP and FS sites when getting into the finer publishing editions of books. For me who has a rather meager amount of money at the moment to spend on books I would for sure get 2-3 EP LE then one from FS.

Allthough to be fair FS do have some accompanying volumes to their LE which I do not believe EP has had yet I could be wrong, like a commentary volume or something, I know there is one for Moby Dick and the now OOP War and Peace, at least to some extent for me it would redeem some of the price difference quality aside.

137Wootle
Mar 31, 2011, 1:44pm Top

133- Do we not have pics of 451 on here somewhere. I don't see them in the LE threads anywhere, but I thought I had seen them somewhere weeks ago.

138astropi
Mar 31, 2011, 1:49pm Top

137: not to my knowledge, but please let me know if I'm mistaken.

139AnnieMod
Mar 31, 2011, 1:59pm Top

Do'h - I was supposed to do some pictures and forgot.

140Wootle
Mar 31, 2011, 2:00pm Top

139- Are you going to take some, if not, I can.

141Quicksilver66
Edited: Mar 31, 2011, 2:08pm Top

EP limited editions are of exceptional quality and represent very good value when compared to their FS brethren. Fahrenheit 451 has bold design elements that really pay off. The Romance of King Arthur, which I received today, is stunningly sumptuous and would cost a lot more in an FS edition.

But even with the 100 greatest series there are some stunning volumes. For instance, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, displays superb design characteristics - as do many other volumes in the series.

I love the FS as well, but the FS devotees can be a bit snobbish at times. It must be jealousy.

142spacmann
Mar 31, 2011, 2:17pm Top

Check out my message #33 - I have a link to my pictures of the EP LE Fahrenheit 451.

143AnnieMod
Mar 31, 2011, 2:20pm Top

>140 Wootle:

I will but not before the weekend.

144Quicksilver66
Mar 31, 2011, 2:37pm Top

Here are a few snaps of mine. As I said, the volume has some very bold design elements to it. But they are I love the cover design and the use of two to the book and the boldness pays off. I love the cover design and the use of two coloured leather. In real life the red is not quite as bright as in some of my photographs.









145ironjaw
Edited: Mar 31, 2011, 4:55pm Top

I actually own quite a few EP LE. I like both EP LE and FS LE in different ways and yes EP is a lot cheaper to get hold off. The problem is with those instalment payments on all of their catalogued volumes makes it is much easier to order them.

While I will put in an order two or three a year for around £200 on FS especially on the sales, I am seeing myself ordering nearly every month books from the EP. Now I am wondering if I should bite the bullet on the Lincoln 10 vol. set. It sure is beautiful. For the same price as the EP set I can buy the original on ebay although it would definitely not be "new" and finely made as in the case of EP. Oh and I've got my eyes on Jimmy Carter's signed editions also.

Any advice helping me out would be received with Viking kudos!

146Wootle
Mar 31, 2011, 4:57pm Top

Order them all!!!!

147wailofatail
Mar 31, 2011, 5:39pm Top

I saw a homeless guy sleeping under a park bench today with an Easton Press Limited Edition under his head and sack full of books by his side.

148ironjaw
Mar 31, 2011, 5:50pm Top

I am sure I can give a good warm room to sleep in a hot meal if he agrees to share his EP LE books with me :)

Let's all pray (or wish) that no one in this forum ever experiences financial hardship that causes them to lose their home and live on the streets.

149astropi
Mar 31, 2011, 7:15pm Top

If I had the money, I'm not sure I would order them all. I honestly like to read my books. I might purchase a volume and put it aside for later reading, but I do plan on reading every single book I purchase. I'm guessing that's how most of us operate? That said, fortunately most of the beautiful EP books are worth purchasing. I do wish the FS books were cheaper. Their new LE Birds in Paradise looks gorgeous (but is SO expensive)! Actually, it's the same price as the Lincoln set. So the FS is one book, and the Lincoln ten, but same price.

150LipstickAndAviators
Apr 1, 2011, 5:25am Top

>149 astropi:

I definitely plan on reading every book I buy, but I think there's a genuine problem in that I can buy a book much faster than I can read one.

To be honest this isn't such a problem with EP and FS etc but more all the cheap paperbacks I buy, but when i see books I wouldn't midn reading for £3 and less I can't help myself!

I'm also a sucker for a full set. If I buy a book from an author and like it, the next week I'm entirely likely to buy the rest of his/her books.

151AnnieMod
Apr 1, 2011, 11:49am Top

>150 LipstickAndAviators: If I buy a book from an author and like it, the next week I'm entirely likely to buy the rest of his/her books.

Yeah -- and some of those authors have way too many books... :)

152NotDownInAnyMap
Edited: Apr 11, 6:45pm Top

As promised, the Fahrenheit 451 DLE photos are here. I'm starting to re-read it in anticipation of the new HBO movie that is coming out next month. Is anyone else looking forward to the movie? Here is the YouTube link to the most recent trailer by HBO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNKwe9k55fs

This edition has 5 illustrations by Joseph Mugnaini plus an additional 4 commissioned illustrations by artist Adrian Chesterman. I believe the LEC edition only had 4 of the Mugnaini illustrations. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Book and slipcase


Spine




Unlike most other DLEs, the slipcase is lined with a textured acid-free paper rather than velvet.


Bright yellow moire endsheets and laid in certificate.














Typeface example. Dark and crisp.






Yellow silk ribbon bookmark to match the endsheets.


Does anyone sleep like this? For some reason I picture member fancythings :)










Back cover


Example of chapter titles at the top of the pages.


Example of page numbers and close-up on the texture of the luxurious paper.


153Wootle
Apr 11, 5:39pm Top

Very good, thank you for adding pics.

154HugoDumas
Apr 11, 5:46pm Top

>152 NotDownInAnyMap: identical to the LEC and later the Famous Edition book in internal design and 5 color plates.

155NotDownInAnyMap
Apr 11, 6:10pm Top

I forgot one important photo. Signed by Ray Bradbury.

156NotDownInAnyMap
Apr 11, 6:14pm Top

>154 HugoDumas: Thank you for clarifying. I always thought the LEC edition had 4 illustrations, a frontispiece plus 3 additional illustrations that were fold-outs. Good to know that there were actually 5 plates.

157HugoDumas
Apr 11, 7:20pm Top

>156 NotDownInAnyMap: never-the-less your DLE is the most handsome Edition. The LEC mint with its aluminum slipcase was highly desirable. I am not complaining over my very attractive Famous Edition.

158GOBOGIE
Apr 11, 9:33pm Top

I am so glad I picked this up on the secondary market a while back. Such a beautiful book and slipcase.

This was released during my self imposed EP buying hiatus, which lasted quite a few years. Unfortunately it coincided with EP’s initial DLE releases, including this.

Thank you for taking the effort and uploading the pics

159HugoDumas
Apr 12, 11:04am Top

>158 GOBOGIE: looking at the original listing I cannot believe this gorgeous signed DLE was less than $200. But that was way back in 2011 and I had not discovered DLEs until about 2014. Meanwhile sealed copies on eBay are now going for more than $500.

160GOBOGIE
Apr 12, 12:07pm Top

I agree $200 is very reasonable IMO for a new price.

The prices for this and the Vonnegut DLE’s average between $400-$500 plus. It took me forever to find a decent deal. I want to say I bought it from a EP collector off of eBay overseas last year.

There are resellers that have all three of the DLE’s for sale on eBay and I contacted each of them and their prices are pretty firm with little to now wiggle room.

As much as I wanted them, I could do those prices.

It’s funny because the first time I saw the Vonnegut DLE’s and the Bradley one, I thought they were ugly but now I really like them and they are some of my personal favorites.

161HugoDumas
Edited: Apr 12, 4:47pm Top

>160 GOBOGIE: agree. Got the Vonnegut Slaughterhouse DLE for my brother as a gift and he then got Cat’s Cradle DLE. Too bad they never did Breakfast of Champions DLE.

And I have just confirmed the LEC version is missing Burning Man. Three of the illustrations are fold outs. I saw a nice copy and would have bought it. But the missing illustration is a deal crusher.

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