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New recommendations: What should you borrow?

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2Nicole_VanK
Jun 22, 2011, 6:56am Top

Fun. Not that I lend or borrow much, but still.

3pgmcc
Jun 22, 2011, 6:56am Top

Hi, Tim.
I looked up the feature and found it interesting. The list of books the other member should borrow from me was particularly interesting.

One suggestion I have is that you include the "rating" when listing the suggested books. I noticed a book that was suggested from my library that I had given a poor rating. (Two stars). It is not a book I would recommend.

All in all, a good feature that I will find very interesting, thought provoking, and, ultimately, very expensive.

Thank you for the effort.

Peter

4timspalding
Jun 22, 2011, 6:57am Top

Note: It does NOT exclude wishlist books. Instead it lists all the collections the book is in and you can make up your mind whether that's important or not.

I did this because I figured people would want it as an option. Sure, I can't BORROW a book you don't have, but if we both want it maybe we can buy it and then share it. Etc.

5conceptDawg
Jun 22, 2011, 6:59am Top

Collections may be wonked: It says, that Abby should borrow my "Library: An unquiet history" which I knew that I didn't have. Sure enough, it's only in my Wishlist collection but it is showing as "Your Library" there.

6timspalding
Jun 22, 2011, 7:01am Top

>5 conceptDawg:

Fixed. Thanks.

7TimSharrock
Jun 22, 2011, 7:06am Top

very interesting - and an encouragement to finish my catalogue - about 80% of the what should I burgle from reading_fox list are already on my shelves.

(don't worry reading_fox.. I don't know where you live beyond the city, and I don't burgle, but you are the most local of my interesting libraries)

82wonderY
Jun 22, 2011, 7:45am Top

Love it! Can I borrow....

9timspalding
Jun 22, 2011, 7:45am Top

Come on over!

102wonderY
Jun 22, 2011, 7:56am Top

This is a new toy - er - tool for checking out my interesting libraries. It should satisfy when talk is slow.
The Unsuggestions are interesting as well. And usually correct. Smoke and mirrors!!

And as TimSharrock says above, many of the suggestions have been read, perhaps in the distant past, and no longer or never owned, but still part of my collection to finish.

11gilroy
Edited: Jun 22, 2011, 8:14am Top

As I look at it, I noticed that the numbering just runs from 0 to 9, but doesn't expand out to multi digits when the lists are that long.

Example: http://www.librarything.com/profile/gilroy/recommendations/whatshouldyouborrow/G...

Is that intentional or a bug?

(If a bug, noted that this is on XP/IE6. Old, yes I know.)
ETA: to add link with example.

12reading_fox
Jun 22, 2011, 8:38am Top

#7 LOL. We need that 'you've been mentioned in talk' idea that was mooted a while back.

I like. Seems to give less reptitively dull data than the usual recommendations do. Does it only use books in collections I've selected for recommendations? It should.

13timspalding
Jun 22, 2011, 8:46am Top

You're not seeing past 9?

14timspalding
Edited: Jun 22, 2011, 8:46am Top

>12 reading_fox:

Yes, it does. It's not doing anything new. It's just filtering by someone's books and showing them by book title, not work title.

15LShelby
Jun 22, 2011, 9:20am Top

" It's just filtering by someone's books and showing them by book title, not work title."

... And much as I and the friend whose library I checked this feature out with tend to like the same sorts of works, I can't admire the horrible mess that I see when recommend uses her book titles.
I think she must just leave them the way Amazon sends them. ::shudder::

16mene
Jun 22, 2011, 9:21am Top

I really like it :D

17sturlington
Jun 22, 2011, 9:24am Top

Wow! I was just kidding when I said I wanted this today. LibraryThing has just increased its awesomeness quotient by 10,000%.

18timspalding
Jun 22, 2011, 9:25am Top

Thanks.

19Bookmarque
Jun 22, 2011, 9:26am Top

now if we could just get edition and author works sorting of any kind.

20timspalding
Jun 22, 2011, 9:29am Top

For recommendations generally or for this or what?

21Bookmarque
Jun 22, 2011, 9:36am Top

well as an example, I went to your library and saw what I should borrow should I trip up to Maine. One of them was a Plutarch book and I saw a review that mentioned this particular edition should have commentary and maps. I went to the editions list to do some research on which edition might contain those things. There's no way to sort the list at all so I'd have to click on each one to know more about it and even then I'm not sure I'd get what I want to know (whether it has maps and/or commentary), but I think if I could sort by # of reviews, copies or even ratings (I know, I know you don't think they mean anything) I might have a task that doesn't make me give up before even starting.

Now, just as a fooling around thing, I'd LOVE it if there was a very discrete way to add things like maps, commentary etc to the "contains" info about a book. Like the edition of The Origin of Species that I want is illustrated, but unless I know that already or if it's in the title, there's no way to find that out among the myriad editions on the list for this book.

Does that make sense? I haven't eaten yet and my brain is kind of mushy still.

22MarthaJeanne
Jun 22, 2011, 9:36am Top

The fun one is when I look to see what I should borrow from my son - Nothing, but he should borrow several of my cookbooks, and a few books that are really his, and still no moved from my account to his.

There is one member I know with a fascinating library - and it says he should borrow several of my books. He is welcome, any time, but it doesn't mention any I should borrow of his. NOT FAIR!

23gilroy
Jun 22, 2011, 9:50am Top

13 by timspalding>

I'm seeing the books but the numbering looks funny. It might just be my browser.

24jjwilson61
Jun 22, 2011, 10:07am Top

Tim, it seems an easy next step would be to add this to the Locate Book section of the work page. So in addition to bookstores and libraries another place you might be able to find a book is in your friends library or maybe any LT members library within a selectable number of miles (although that last might be a bit creepy).

25AnnaClaire
Jun 22, 2011, 10:12am Top

This definitely should be a candidate for filtering by works I have contained in other works. In one instance I was told I might want to borrow The Two Towers based on the fact that I have The Hobbit (reasonable) and The Lord of the Rings (not so much).

26pgmcc
Jun 22, 2011, 11:38am Top

#4 Tim - WOW! You are supper active today. Thank you for implementing my suggestion in posting 3.

Great customer service.

27SylviaC
Jun 22, 2011, 12:02pm Top

I'm finding this useful for reminding me of titles to enter in my "Read but unowned" collection.

28buchowl
Jun 22, 2011, 12:46pm Top

Love this!! Now if I could only borrow 'time' in order to get to all these great books I'm finding. Agree with >17 sturlington:.

29elenchus
Jun 22, 2011, 1:27pm Top

Suggestion: the spacing in the list of recommendations is a bit odd, where the "Based upon" section is closer to the next entry than to the recommended title. Perhaps a line between them or a larger gap between the "Based upon" and the next entry, as compared to the gap between the recommended title and "Based upon"?

I do like the feature, a focused way to browse interesting libraries, especially useful for libraries with several hundred titles.

30elenchus
Jun 22, 2011, 1:36pm Top

>13 timspalding:, 23

Titles are there beyond 9 recommendations, but only the ones digit displays: 10 displays as 0, 11 as 1, etc. I'm on XP / IE 7.

31Nicole_VanK
Jun 22, 2011, 2:05pm Top

>13 timspalding:, 23, 30: Odd. I see the numbers just fine (XP Pro / FF 5)

32fyrefly98
Edited: Jun 22, 2011, 3:08pm Top

Awesome! Not so great in a practical sense, since none of my nearby friends from whom I could potentially borrow books from is an LT member, but awesome way to sort through interesting libraries.

One idea: Maybe add the review bubble next to the stars, if the other member has reviewed it? I'd find it helpful to have an indication of which books were reviewed by the person whose library I was comparing, and a direct link to get a better idea of their opinion than just the stars.

ETA: I also find this whole concept a nice piece of synchronicity, given that I call my "owned" collection "Books I Can Lend You." :)

33krazy4katz
Jun 22, 2011, 3:37pm Top

Love this! So much fun! Unfortunately, it adds to my TBR list, so here is another part of my life that is WAY out of control!

k4k

34Nicole_VanK
Jun 22, 2011, 3:48pm Top

TBR lists are way out of control for most of us anyway ;-)

35rsterling
Jun 22, 2011, 4:14pm Top

Cool feature
(although it's making me think, again, that I just need to remove my wishlists from my LT account and track them some other way: they just introduce too much noise)

36sparrowbunny
Jun 22, 2011, 4:37pm Top

I'd find it helpful to have an indication of which books were reviewed by the person whose library I was comparing, and a direct link to get a better idea of their opinion than just the stars.

This, please, if possible. I would love this. (I really like the feature as a whole, though, duplicate work suggestions and all.)

Regarding the numbering issue mentioned in 11, 13, 31 and others... I use XP / FF 4.0.1 and the numbers are fine. Maybe it's an IE thing?

37suitable1
Jun 22, 2011, 6:26pm Top

Another fun feature!

38timspalding
Jun 22, 2011, 7:39pm Top

they just introduce too much noise

Well, I aim to reduce that noise somehow. But is it perhaps that you haven't marked your wishlist as not being part of recommendations? You can do that.

of which books were reviewed by the person whose library I was comparing

Agreed.

39rsterling
Edited: Jun 22, 2011, 8:06pm Top

Well, I aim to reduce that noise somehow. But is it perhaps that you haven't marked your wishlist as not being part of recommendations? You can do that.
Oh, that's right. I switched it to "use in recommendations" recently to see what difference it would make to MWYB calculations. I need to switch it back. But assuming I wasn't private, that setting still wouldn't prevent my wishlist books from being recommended for others to borrow, correct?

Edited to add: "use for recommendations" explains my wishlist collection being used for calculations right now, but then I'm also seeing collections that are definitely NOT marked "use for recommendations" showing up in the column of what other people should borrow from me.

Edited again to add: I'm getting completely confused here. I have my wishlist marked as "use for connections" but not "use for recommendations." Which setting would affect what shows up/is visible here, and how?

40leahbird
Jun 22, 2011, 8:09pm Top

#38 by timspalding> they just introduce too much noise

Well, I aim to reduce that noise somehow. But is it perhaps that you haven't marked your wishlist as not being part of recommendations? You can do that.


my wishlist is definitely marked to be excluded from recommendations (i just double-checked) but those books are still showing up in the new feature. for example, when i go to justjim's profile to see what i should borrow, the reverse suggests that he should borrow several books i don't own...

41justjim
Jun 22, 2011, 8:26pm Top

Not any more, you don't! Since Tim Sharrock renamed the feature What should I burgle in #7, I just slipped in and took them!

I said 'Hi' to the chooks, but you guys were sleeping.

42leahbird
Jun 22, 2011, 8:36pm Top

surprised you could get past the gander... ;)

43Heather19
Edited: Jun 22, 2011, 9:29pm Top

.... aw man! There is no recommended-to-borrow books for me, from Tim's library! Guess our tastes are too different.

Wow, 8 books recommended from lilithcat's catalogue, 18 from lorax's.... I may be adding a few wishlist books tonight!

44foggidawn
Jun 22, 2011, 11:13pm Top

Bwahahahaha! Apparently, Tim should borrow my Harry Potter books. Any time, Tim. :-D

45Mareofthesea
Jun 22, 2011, 11:31pm Top

I find it amusing that several books that I have read, and passed onto another member show up as books I should borrow from her. lol

46timspalding
Jun 23, 2011, 3:25am Top

But assuming I wasn't private, that setting still wouldn't prevent my wishlist books from being recommended for others to borrow, correct?

Right. As stated the title is simple. It may be that you're discovering both of you want to get the book, and should buy it.

Edited again to add: I'm getting completely confused here. I have my wishlist marked as "use for connections" but not "use for recommendations." Which setting would affect what shows up/is visible here, and how?

So, it won't use any of your no-recommendations books to make recommendations. If it is--if they are included in the "from..." list, tell me.

those books are still showing up in the new feature. for example, when i go to justjim's profile to see what i should borrow, the reverse suggests that he should borrow several books i don't own...

Right. See above. If people really want me to remove them entirely, I can. But I think it's useful even so.

47Nicole_VanK
Edited: Jun 23, 2011, 3:50am Top

So, it won't use any of your no-recommendations books to make recommendations. If it is--if they are included in the "from..." list, tell me.

Well, in my case it suggests you should borrow my copy of http://www.librarything.com/work/book/53748409 - which is only in my wishlist, which I have disabled for recommendations and connections.

p.s.: But since it actually states it's a "wishlist" book I don't see it as a big deal.

48timspalding
Jun 23, 2011, 3:50am Top

>47 Nicole_VanK:

Right. It's not using it to make recommendations. It's recommending it. Yes, tricky.

49MGovers
Edited: Jun 23, 2011, 4:12am Top

I really like this new feature! Thanks, Tim (some interesting results come up, e.g. Tim may borrow the Aeneid and Histories by Tacitus from moi ... :-) )
Anyway, would it be possible to exclude the Wishlist and/or To Read-books optionally, like what you did in the recommended groups (where you can exclude the groups you're already a member of)? I think it would be nice to have a choice. However, I'm already very much impressed the way it is now, so this is just a very small suggestion.
ETA... or maybe even only to see the rated books?

50purdie
Jun 23, 2011, 8:22am Top

Thanks so much Tim, this is a great feature. I'll enjoy spending many happy hours browsing & making lists of books to try!

51abbottthomas
Jun 23, 2011, 10:55am Top

I'll add my thanks for this. An interesting effect is showing up lots of books that I would have said I owned, certainly have read, as being worth borrowing. Several by Evelyn Waugh and Graham Greene for example. Where have mine gone? It's going to cost to fill the gaps - who said LT was inexpensive ;-)

52lemontwist
Jun 23, 2011, 11:06am Top

Haha Tim, LT is saying you need to borrow my copies of Harry Potter. Interested? :-D

53paradoxosalpha
Jun 23, 2011, 11:08am Top

One of the first benefits I got from this feature was that it pointed out two books that had eluded my cataloging efforts. "I don't need to borrow those; I own them!" Oh, better add them then.

54MarthaJeanne
Edited: Jun 23, 2011, 12:27pm Top

It also says Tim should borrow my Women in Ancient Egypt, but luckily I have already gotten rid of it. We don't need a second 'No' review.

55fyrefly98
Edited: Jun 23, 2011, 11:35am Top

It's just filtering by someone's books and showing them by book title, not work title.

One side effect of this that I've noticed is that if someone has more than one copy of a work in their catalog, both show up on the recommendation list. For example, it thinks that Tim should borrow both Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone AND Harry Potter y la Piedra Filosofal.

I don't know if it's a common-enough occurrence (or if the clutter is annoying enough) that it's worth doing something about, but I thought I'd point it out in case there's an easy quick fix.

ETA: Oh, I just realized they're listed under the same number, not as separate items on the list. That's un-cluttery enough for me, so nevermind.

56timspalding
Jun 23, 2011, 11:50am Top

>55 fyrefly98:

Yeah, it's intentional. You'll notice they don't occur on separately numbered lines. They're put together. LT can't guess which one you have handy, or which I can read the language of, etc. So it lists both.

57arethusarose
Jun 23, 2011, 2:09pm Top

I like this; it gives me better suggestions of things to read than the Recommendations, which tend to just suggest more books by authors I already have in my library. I am looking at lists from Friends, Interesting Libraries, and Members with your books - found a few possibilities. Thanks.

58timspalding
Jun 23, 2011, 3:51pm Top

>57 arethusarose:

I like that you like it, but it's actually the same thing as Recommendations--just limiting them by what your friends have. :)

59_Zoe_
Jun 23, 2011, 4:24pm Top

>58 timspalding: Of course, note that the problem of Recommendations suggesting more books by authors already in our library is very easily solved.

60AnnaClaire
Jun 23, 2011, 4:39pm Top

>58 timspalding:
In fact, wasn't it solved for a while? It was un-solved around when the fiction/non-fiction split was removed.

61_Zoe_
Jun 23, 2011, 4:42pm Top

>60 AnnaClaire: Yup. It's very sad.

62jjwilson61
Jun 23, 2011, 5:01pm Top

58> Yes, but with this feature you also get your friends ratings which makes a big difference in whether it goes on the wishlist or not.

63jjwilson61
Jun 23, 2011, 5:01pm Top

Tim, did you see my suggestion at post #24?

64timspalding
Jun 23, 2011, 5:44pm Top

Yeah. I think we need to look at that.

65paradoxosalpha
Jun 23, 2011, 6:41pm Top

> 60

There was a fiction/non-fiction split? I'm glad that was before my time!

66brightcopy
Jun 23, 2011, 7:27pm Top

Unfortunately, the first time I actually used this, four of the fourteen titles (indeed, four of the first six) were books that were contained in either my The Complete Far Side or The Complete Calvin and Hobbes. Really have to repeat what #25 said. There are so many features on LT that are hamstrung by not taking the contains data into account.

67mtr3
Edited: Jun 23, 2011, 8:41pm Top

I completely occur with this (#25 and #66). I think that it may be fixed by including a field where you can say that the book is an anthology, which includes X books? I mean I have Orwell's 1984 and Animal in a single volume, and the recommendations keep suggesting Animal Farm... I think if you made this an option for users to implement, this could be largely user-generated content.

68brightcopy
Jun 23, 2011, 10:41pm Top

#67 by mtr3> FYI, there's actually already a section for work-to-work relationships. See:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/109724
http://www.librarything.com/topic/109828

One relationship is the "Contains" relationship, which allows you to specify that one work contains other works (your example is one that would fit there). And the data is actually quite well filled out at this point, since the feature was introduced back in February. It's just kind of stalled out after the feature was first introduced, and the data has never been hooked up to all the different places where it would be very useful.

69paradoxosalpha
Jun 24, 2011, 10:26am Top

> 25, 66 etc.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

So many automated recommendations are suggesting that I acquire books that are in my library, because the one I have or the one being recommended is an omnibus or other edition that includes the other. The Work-to-Work data is getting really well populated now, and it seems a tragedy not to put it to use this way.

70AndreasJ
Jun 24, 2011, 3:33pm Top

The thingie thinks Tim should lend me Gaiman's Stardust. Tim might want to think twice about this, because when I loaned my sister's copy, it got stolen by some lowlife.

71suitable1
Jun 24, 2011, 3:43pm Top

#70 - Is it possible that Tim has your copy?

72AndreasJ
Jun 24, 2011, 3:51pm Top

#71 - seems unlikely: he doesn't list either of the two other books that were stolen with it.

73Booksloth
Jun 25, 2011, 6:06am Top

#71 Are you calling Tim a lowlife?

74rebeccanyc
Jun 25, 2011, 7:26am Top

Wow, this is dangerous!!! Thank you!

75oregonobsessionz
Jun 25, 2011, 2:12pm Top

I should borrow 11 books from Tim (one of which is actually in my wishlist), and Tim should borrow 29 books from me. Some of the reasons are a bit odd though:

Tim should borrow Southern Storm: Sherman’s March to the Sea because he has Revelation of the Magi: The Lost Tale of the Three Wise Men’s Journey to Bethlehem

Tim should borrow The Stranger and the Statesman: James Smithson, John Quincy Adams, and the Making of America’s Greatest Museum because he has Physiognomics in the Ancient World

Ooh! I just noticed the new message preview thingie! How long has that been there? I have wanted that feature for ages, to prevent repeated editing to correct my clumsy typing.

76jjwilson61
Jun 25, 2011, 8:55pm Top

You didn't notice the major talk redo a few weeks ago?

77rastaphrog
Jun 26, 2011, 1:09am Top

Only a few books that Tim and I should borrow from each other, but this one that I should borrow from Tim was particularly interesting given the WHY. *G*


78_Lana_
Jun 26, 2011, 9:43am Top

May I be annoying and reiterate the suggestion someone made in > 29; that the spacing of the based upon is odd and tricks the eye to mismatching the recomendation and based upon. It would be great if this could be corrected.

Thanks

79_Zoe_
Jul 4, 2011, 8:53pm Top

Just want to say how much I'm enjoying this feature. Isn't it amazing what a difference a bit of filtering can make? ;)

80prussia_cove
Edited: Jul 5, 2011, 4:09am Top

#24 "it seems an easy next step would be to add this to the Locate Book section of the work page. So in addition to bookstores and libraries another place you might be able to find a book is in your friends library or maybe any LT members library within a selectable number of miles (although that last might be a bit creepy)"
You can't seriously mean that? Friends, maybe, but I really can't see why- if you have a friend who actually is willing to let his friends borrow his books, all you have to do is to look in his library for a certain book.
For any LT member near you - absolutely not. Creepy indeed, and for what purpose?

Having said as much, I must say I like this new feature, although it certainly makes my list of books to be read even longer.

81jjwilson61
Jul 5, 2011, 10:04am Top

80>I did say that the last part might be creepy, but the meat of the request was the ability to easily locate books in friends libraries. The point being that if you've decided that you want to get a book finding it in a Friend's library on the Locate Book page is much easier than looking through each of your Friend's libraries manually.

82sunny
Jul 17, 2011, 5:19pm Top


A bit late to the party, just to add: Cool feature, thank you.

83MrsLee
Jul 24, 2011, 12:00pm Top

Even later to the party, but wanted to say that I found this feature very helpful when answering a thread where the poster was asking what fantasy book he should try. I was able to go to his profile, use this feature, then weed through the list until I found some of my books I liked to recommend. Nice.

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