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Occupy Wall Street Library on LibraryThing

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1timspalding
Oct 14, 2011, 10:53am Top

In case you missed it, the Occupy Wall Street Library people have put their catalog on LibraryThing.

Catalog:
http://www.librarything.com/catalog/OWSLibrary

Blog:
http://peopleslibrary.wordpress.com/

Press:
New Yorker Article: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/2011/09/the-occupy-wall-street-libra...
Galleycat: http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/occupy-wall-street-library-online_b39726

How many books do you share with them?

2timspalding
Oct 14, 2011, 10:54am Top

Mine:

The Last Man (Wordsworth Classics) by Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley
House of Sand and Fog (Oprah's Book Club) (Vintage Contemporaries) by Andre Dubus III
A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn
The Hobbit by J. R. R. Tolkien
Harry Potter and the sorcerer's stone by J. K. Rowling

4southernbooklady
Oct 14, 2011, 11:18am Top

59 for me, although some of those are duplicates. So maybe more like 55.

Sea change : a message of the oceans by Sylvia A. Earle
The checkbook and the cruise missile : conversations with Arundhati Roy by David Barsamian
Keith Haring Journals: (Penguin Classics Deluxe Edition) by Keith Haring
Senselessness by Horacio Castellanos Moya
The story of Zahra by Ḥanān Shaykh
Introductory lectures on aesthetics by Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
Big Trouble: A Murder in a Small Western Town Sets Off a Struggle for the Soul of America by J. Anthony Lukas
Russian Thinkers (Penguin Classics) by Isaiah Berlin
Stop stealing sheep & find out how type works by Erik Spiekermann
The Complete Shorter Fiction of Virginia Woolf: Second Edition by Virginia Woolf
Death in midsummer and other stories by Yukio Mishima
The Reincarnationist by M. J. Rose
Leonardo's Mountain of Clams and the Diet of Worms: Essays on Natural History by Stephen Jay Gould
Washington: A Life by Ron Chernow
The turning : new stories by Tim Winton
The house of the sleeping beauties and other stories by Yasunari Kawabata
The Chimney Sweeper's Boy by Barbara Vine
Season of Migration to the North (New York Review Books Classics) by Tayeb Salih
The whiskey rebels : a novel by David Liss
Already Dead: A Novel by Charlie Huston
A small town in Germany by John Le Carre
A midwife's tale : the life of Martha Ballard, based on her diary, 1785-1812 by Laurel Ulrich
Slow man by J. M. Coetzee
The Queen of the South by Arturo Perez-Reverte
Jacob's Room (Barnes & Noble Library of Essential Reading) by Virginia Woolf
How Proust can change your life : not a novel by Alain De Botton
The life of Samuel Johnson by James Boswell
Pnin by Vladimir Nabokov
Germinal by Emile Zola
Richard III (Dover Thrift Editions) by William Shakespeare
Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell
Ficciones (English Translation) by Jorge Luis Borges
Shantaram by Gregory David Roberts
The tin drum by Günter Grass
Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time by Dava Sobel
The elegance of the hedgehog by Muriel Barbery
Notes from the Underground (Dover Thrift Editions) by Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Reading Lolita in Tehran: A Memoir in Books by Azar Nafisi
Tao te ching : the classic book of integrity and the way by Laozi.
To the Lighthouse by Virginia Woolf
Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco
Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson
The elements of style by William Strunk
The magician's nephew by C. S. Lewis
The Sun Also Rises by Ernest Hemingway
The prince by Niccolò Machiavelli
The tipping point : how little things can make a big difference by Malcolm Gladwell
Madame Bovary (Penguin Classics) by Gustave Flaubert
Moby Dick by Herman; (edited by Alfred Kazin) Melville
The Picture of Dorian Gray (Barnes & Noble Classics Series) by Oscar Wilde
Sense and Sensibility by Jane Austen
One hundred years of solitude by Gabriel García Márquez
Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë
Pride and prejudice by Jane Austen
The Hobbit by J. R. R. Tolkien
Harry Potter and the sorcerer's stone by J. K. Rowling

5AnnieMod
Oct 14, 2011, 11:23am Top

26 books/ 22 works with what I have in the catalog now.

The best American comics 2008 by Lynda Barry
To Darkness and to Death (A Rev. Clare Fergusson/Russ Van Alstyne Mystery) by Julia Spencer-Fleming
Panic by Jeff Abbott
Evidence: An Alex Delaware Novel by Jonathan Kellerman
The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms (The Inheritance Trilogy) by N. K. Jemisin
Horns : a novel by Joe Hill
Touching the void by Joe Simpson
The Russia House-Read by John Le Carre
The Gathering (Man Booker Prize) by Anne Enright
The Varieties of Religious Experience: A Study in Human Nature by William James
Richard III (Dover Thrift Editions) by William Shakespeare
Hot six by Janet Evanovich
High five by Janet Evanovich
Hard times by Charles Dickens
The Tempest (Shakespeare, Pelican) by William Shakespeare
Othello (Dover Thrift Editions) by William Shakespeare
A midsummer night's dream by William Shakespeare
Macbeth (Dover Thrift Editions) by William Shakespeare
The Girl Who Played with Fire (Vintage Crime/Black Lizard) by Stieg Larsson
Hamlet (Dover Thrift Editions) by William Shakespeare
Sense and Sensibility by Jane Austen
Pride and prejudice by Jane Austen

6timspalding
Oct 14, 2011, 11:26am Top

I was amused to notice someone had added Goldwater's autobiography, Goldwater and William F. Buckley's Nearer, My God.

You can get a good sense of what's being added here:
http://www.librarything.com/tagmirror/OWSLibrary&size=500

7PensiveCat
Oct 14, 2011, 11:35am Top

My favorite shared book is Is this the Real Life: The Story of Queen.

My favorite random book: How to Clean Practically Anything

8DaynaRT
Oct 14, 2011, 11:55am Top

9theoria
Oct 14, 2011, 12:08pm Top

Literary supporters http://occupywriters.com/

10brightcopy
Oct 14, 2011, 12:35pm Top

I share only 11, but I like the narrative some of the titles make if you order them right:

Childhood's End
The Truth
Naked
Guards! Guards!
Slaughterhouse-Five

11morningwalker
Oct 14, 2011, 12:38pm Top

I share 21 books with their library.

12tardis
Oct 14, 2011, 12:40pm Top

19 shared - mostly fantasy and SF except for Pride and Prejudice, one mystery, and The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein (which is my husband's book, not mine).

13gilbertine
Oct 14, 2011, 12:42pm Top

I share 21 books.

14eromsted
Edited: Oct 14, 2011, 1:30pm Top

When I was down there the library all looked rather a clutter. I'm impressed they got it cataloged.

I share 59 books in my physical library, here they are in reverse popularity order:
1.From Harvard to the Ranks of Labor: Powers Hapgood and the American Working Class
2.Labor Law for the Rank-and-Filer or, Building Solidarity while Staying Clear of the Law; New and Completely Revised Edition
3.We Were There: The Story of Working Women in America
4.Chaos or Community?: Seeking Solutions, Not Scapegoats for Bad Economics
5.America's Working Women
6.Rosa Luxemburg Speaks
7.With God on Their Side: How Christian Fundamentalists Trampled Science, Policy, and Democracy in George W. Bush's White House
8.Bush in Babylon: The Recolonisation of Iraq
9.Celia, a Save: A True Story
10.Race, Class, and Gender: An Anthology; Third Edition
11.Socialism: Utopian and Scientific: With the Essay on "The Mark"
12.Live from Death Row
13.The Work of Nations: Preparing Ourselves for 21st-Century Capitalism
14.The Peculiar Institution: Slavery in the Ante-Bellum South
15.The Other America: Poverty in the United States
16.Rogue States: The Rule of Force in World Affairs
17.Leonardo's Mountain of Clams and the Diet of Worms: Essays on Natural History
18.This Bridge Called My Back: Writings by Radical Women of Color
19.Cows of Our Planet: A Far Side Collection
20.Rules for Radicals: A Practical Primer for Realistic Radicals
21.War Is a Force that Gives Us Meaning
22.News of a Kidnapping
23.Downsize This!
24.Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance
25.When We Were Very Young
26.Jailbird
27.Germinal
28.Civilization and Its Discontents
29.Skinny Legs and All
30.Homage to Catalonia
31.Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison
32.Timequake
33.Ficciones
34.The Tin Drum
35.The Autobiography of Malcolm X
36."Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!": Adventures of a Curious Character
37.The Pearl
38.The Tempest
39.Naked Lunch
40.Arthur Miller: Death of a salesman; Text and Criticism
41.Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America
42.The Crucible: A Play in Four Acts
43.A People's History of the United States: 1492-Present
44.Oliver Twist
45.Les Misérables
46.Candide
47.A Farewell to Arms
48.The Elements of Style; Third Edition
49.The Tragedy of Macbeth
50.Madame Bovary; The Trial of Madame Bovery
51.Siddhartha
52.The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark
53.Moby Dick; or, The Whale
54.On the Road
55.Slaughterhouse-Five or The Children's Crusade: A Duty-Dance with Death
56.One Hundred Years of Solitude
57.Animal Farm: A Fairy Story
58.The Kite Runner
59.The Hobbit, or There and Back Again

I've read but don't own 6 more and 65 are on my wishlist. It's a pretty good selection, though they could use more history.

15TLCrawford
Oct 14, 2011, 2:51pm Top

I share 55 but there are some duplicates. Among the shared books are the writers, Machiavelli, V. I. Lenin, and Ayn Rand. That makes for a nice range of politics. In fiction we share Jane Eyre and Fahrenheit 451 and biographies from The Autobiography of Malcolm X to The Autobiography of Andrew Carnegie and The Gospel of Wealth.

I am happy that there is such a range of interests represented. Of course no number of Goldwater’s or Lindbergh’s will make up for one Imperialism: the highest stage of capitalism, when pundits start applying labels.

16bookwoman247
Oct 14, 2011, 3:02pm Top

I just want to say thanks, guys, for what you're doing! You speak for 99%, even though many of the 99% don't realize that you speak in their interests, too! I am one of the many who would love to join in, but am not able to. In my case I'm limited by disability. In many cases I know people can't afford to take off work.

The library is such an awesome idea, too, and so representative of the movement.

Hang tough!! Many, many are with you in spirit!

17SqueakyChu
Edited: Oct 14, 2011, 5:43pm Top

I share 27 books with the OWS library. The most notable of those books (and I suggest everyone read them) are:

1. The Story of Stuff by Annie Leonard
2. Eaarth by Bill McKibben - which, delightfully, was a book I won as an Early Reviewer here on LibraryThing!

Too bad all of the OWS library books aren't registered on Bookcrossing. It sure would be fun to follow those books' travels.

18timspalding
Edited: Oct 14, 2011, 5:44pm Top

I'm not particularly sympathetic to the OWS's politics, but I admire people who are involved enough to protest, even if I don't agree with the solutions they propose. And I'm an absolute nut for cataloging little libraries. So a local librarian and I are going to catalog Portland, ME's OWS library tomorrow.

19bookwoman247
Edited: Oct 14, 2011, 6:18pm Top


#17 SqueakyChu: I was thinking the same thing about Bookcrossing!

20mkboylan
Oct 14, 2011, 5:46pm Top

30 for me. Glad to see they have The Anarchist Cookbook ;

21mkboylan
Oct 14, 2011, 5:50pm Top

Yay Tim! And after all that work you can grab a yummy bite to eat at the Red and Black Cafe, right?

22mkboylan
Oct 14, 2011, 5:51pm Top

Tim - Altho, looks like it would be a rather long drive.

23SqueakyChu
Edited: Oct 14, 2011, 5:54pm Top

> 18

Tim, if those OWS library books in Portland, Maine, are going to change hands a lot, you should seriously think about registering them on Bookcrossing. No kidding.

Flashmob in Portland?! ;)

24MerryMary
Oct 14, 2011, 8:21pm Top

I share 27 books.

25Sandydog1
Oct 14, 2011, 8:33pm Top

88, but some of these are duplicates, I'm sure.

I'm looking forward to spending some time lurking through it.

26ABVR
Oct 15, 2011, 7:42am Top

I share 19 books (as of this writing). Most of them are classics with thousands of owners on LT -- stuff like Shakespeare, Machiavelli, Heinlein, Clarke, A People's History of the United States, and The Elements of Style -- so the overlap isn't terribly surprising, but then there's:

Republican Party Reptile by P. J. O'Rourke
The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Frank Rich
How to Watch TV News by Neil Postman
Beyond Star Trek: Physics from Alien Invasions to the End of Time by Lawrence Krauss
and
Rabbit Hill by Robert Lawson

That last one -- a gentle late-forties kid's story about a community of rabbits, and one of my childhood favorites -- is making me smile very, very broadly.

27OWSLibrary
Oct 15, 2011, 7:51am Top

Fantastic! please keep in touch--we'd love to get the libraries connected.

28ajsomerset
Oct 15, 2011, 10:56am Top

I share 20, mostly well-known books, and one more obscure title, for which six of the ten copies on LT seem to belong to OWSLibrary: The Wage Slave's Glossary.

29lilithcat
Oct 15, 2011, 3:52pm Top

32.

30clamairy
Oct 15, 2011, 4:04pm Top

87
I'm such a rebel...

31AsYouKnow_Bob
Oct 16, 2011, 9:31am Top

OWS is currently at 1492 books: "You share 161 books with OWSLibrary."

(...Which is actually fairly typical: I tend to share ~10% of the books in any random LT library.)

32clamairy
Oct 16, 2011, 2:41pm Top

Yah, now I'm up to 118.

33SqueakyChu
Edited: Oct 16, 2011, 4:19pm Top

I need to start sending some BC-registered books to some OWS libraries. Should I send my first book to NYC or to Portland, Maine?

Hey! This library has some really interesting books!!

34Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 16, 2011, 4:25pm Top

35SqueakyChu
Edited: Oct 16, 2011, 4:34pm Top

> 34

Since you were the first to reply, Jesse_wiedinmyer, I'll send my BC-registered copy of Fat Land to Poughkeepsie if you'll send me the address to their OWS library. Fair enough? :)

We have an Occupy Wall Street here in DC, but I don't know if they have a "library". :)

The DC OWS: "U.S. Park Police have given protesters a four-month permit extension to remain camped out in Freedom Plaza near the White House."

By the way, here in DC today is also the dedication of the Martin Luther King memorial.

36Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 16, 2011, 4:32pm Top

Works for me. Just sent them a message, though I suppose they might prefer brooms before books.

37WholeHouseLibrary
Oct 16, 2011, 5:06pm Top

> 34

The problem, though, is in Congress. Couldn't they get a permit to occupy Senate Park, or the National Mall?

38SqueakyChu
Oct 16, 2011, 5:22pm Top

It would be a disaster if they occupied the National Mall as that space is used for so festivals (e.g. the National Book Festival) and activities. I, preferably, like them to have a continuing presence that doesn't upset those around them. That would make it more likely that they would be allowed to stay wherever they encamp.

39timspalding
Oct 16, 2011, 5:32pm Top

I checked out the Portland "library" through the window of the (closed) gyro shop that's serving as their headquarters. Very small. My friend Justin, who works at the Portland Public Library, is going to catalog it on Monday, I think. I wouldn't send books until they say to do so. I don't think they can handle many more in the space.

40SqueakyChu
Edited: Oct 16, 2011, 5:36pm Top

I love the idea of sending books to the various "libraries" identified with the OWS movement. I know that could be for the pleasant passing of time by those "occupiers", but I also think that books that are sent should be educational as related to this cause.

> 34

My book will be in the mail tomorrow morning...to Occupy Poughkeepsie! :)

> 40

Thanks for checking out the Occupy Portland (Maine) library, Tim.

41timspalding
Oct 16, 2011, 5:35pm Top

Thanks for not sending that one to me. I might have taken offense!

42Jarandel
Oct 16, 2011, 5:36pm Top

My overlap with them, though there's a number I've passed on, that I actually borrowed or still on wishlist :)

The elegance of the hedgehog Muriel Barbery
Fahrenheit 451 Ray Bradbury
Jane Eyre Charlotte Brontë
Oliver Twist Charles Dickens
The Count of Monte Cristo Alexandre Dumas
Foucault's Pendulum Umberto Eco
Sorceress of Darshiva David Eddings
Madame Bovary (Penguin Classics) Gustave Flaubert
One hundred years of solitude Gabriel García Márquez
Pattern Recognition William Gibson
Lord of the flies : a novel William Golding
The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms (The Inheritance Trilogy) N. K. Jemisin
The Art of the Novel Milan Kundera
No Country for Old Men Cormac McCarthy
Animal farm : and related readings George Orwell
1984 : a novel George Orwell
Guards! Guards! Terry Pratchett
The Amber Spyglass (His Dark Materials, Book 3) Philip Pullman
The catcher in the rye Jerome D. Salinger
Ivanhoe : a romance Sir Walter Scott
Hamlet (Dover Thrift Editions) William Shakespeare
The Tempest (Shakespeare, Pelican) William Shakespeare
The Hobbit J. R. R. Tolkien
Germinal Émile Zola

43SqueakyChu
Edited: Oct 16, 2011, 5:39pm Top

> 40

Actually, I wrote my review of Fat Land so that (hopefully) others would not take offense and have gotten some interesting replies on my own thread to that review.

ETA: Please note: I'm not taking this thread into my own political beliefs! :)

44rebeccanyc
Oct 16, 2011, 6:27pm Top

49, in order from least number of copies on LT to most, because that's how I have my Books You Share sorted.

The ice trilogy by Vladimir Sorokin
The Hottest Dishes of the Tartar Cuisine by Alina Bronsky
The winds of change : climate, weather, and the destruction of civilizations by Eugene Linden
Houseboy (African Writers) by Ferdinand Oyono
Return to My Native Land (Bloodaxe Contemporary French P) (English and French Edition) by Aime Cesaire
Selected Poetry of W. H. Auden (Modern library 160.2) by W. H. Auden
The Adventures and Misadventures of Maqroll (New York Review Books Classics) by Alvaro Mutis
Chicago poems by Carl Sandburg
Dirty Havana Trilogy: A Novel in Stories by Pedro Juan Gutierrez
Planet of slums by Mike Davis
The end of oil : on the edge of a perilous new world by Paul Roberts
How the Other Half Lives: Studies Among the Tenements of New York by Jacob Riis
July's People by Nadine Gordimer
The Plague of Doves: A Novel (P.S.) by Louise Erdrich
TEN DAYS THAT SHOOK THE WORLD (Bantam Classics) by John Reed
Man's Fate (La Condition Humaine) by Andre Malraux
Just Kids by Patti Smith
The Russia House-Read By John Lecarre by John Le Carre
The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956: An Experiment in Literary Investigation, Parts I-II by Aleksandr Isaevich Solzhenitsyn
When we were very young by A. A. Milne
Civilization and its discontents by Sigmond Freud
Roget's international thesaurus by C. O. Sylvester Mawson
Ficciones (English Translation) by Jorge Luis Borges
Shantaram by Gregory David Roberts
The Autobiography of Malcolm X by Malcolm X
Room: A Novel by Emma Donoghue
Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time by Dava Sobel
The elegance of the hedgehog by Muriel Barbery
Prodigal Summer: A Novel by Barbara Kingsolver
Disgrace by J. M. Coetzee
The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
The Idiot by Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Dubliners by James Joyce
Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco
Beloved : a novel by Toni Morrison
The elements of style by William Strunk
Macbeth (Dover Thrift Editions) by William Shakespeare
A portrait of the artist as a young man by James Joyce
The Sun Also Rises (A Scribner Classic) by Ernest Hemingway
Ulysses by James Joyce
Madame Bovary (Penguin Classics) by Gustave Flaubert
War and peace by graf Leo Tolstoy
Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse
Hamlet (Dover Thrift Editions) by William Shakespeare
Moby Dick by Herman; (edited by Alfred Kazin) Melville
Crime and punishment by Fyodor Dostoyevsky
One hundred years of solitude by Gabriel García Márquez
1984 : a novel by George Orwell

45Phocion
Oct 16, 2011, 7:07pm Top

I share forty-five with them, mostly fiction; almost none of my American histories of government or economy are on there.

Personally, I don't understand what surprised them (businesses are amoral? grass is green?) or what they hope to accomplish by protesting Wall Steet - do they think Wall Street doesn't want us to recover? Shouldn't they be protesting the government that didn't regulate those businesses?

But at least they're somehow more educated than the Tea Baggers.

46Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 16, 2011, 7:20pm Top

do they think Wall Street doesn't want us to recover?

Do you think "Wall Street" cares whether you recover?

47Phocion
Oct 16, 2011, 7:22pm Top

46: Considering their livelihoods depend on a good American economy, yes. Me, personally? Of course not. Why should they?

48Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 16, 2011, 7:25pm Top

Considering their livelihoods depend on a good American economy, yes.

Care to offer anything to support this statement?

49Phocion
Oct 16, 2011, 7:31pm Top

48: Do you have any idea how the stock market works? Do you think during the Great Depression, Wall Street threw up their hands screaming, "Yes! That's what we like to see: Americans too poor to spend money and stimulate the economy!" Granted that image of them jumping from windows was romanticized, they wanted Americans spending money. Capitalism doesn't work well when's there is stagnation. It's hardly that different know, except Americans are for some reason upset the banks were bailed, instead of letting them fail and driving us into another depression.

I thought you were about truth, not fantasy, or do you just like fighting The Man for the sake of it?

50Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 16, 2011, 7:35pm Top

Capitalism doesn't work well when's there is stagnation.

Umm, Capital hasn't been stagnant for a couple of years now.

51Phocion
Oct 16, 2011, 7:40pm Top

My point was you seem to think Wall Street is sitting there, rubbing their hands together gleefully, thinking of ways to keep us from recovering, when what they want is the flow of funds, which stimulates the economy.

52Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 16, 2011, 9:01pm Top

No. I don't think those at the higher end of the spectrum really give a flying fuck about you one way or the other. As Herman Cain puts it, if you're not wealthy or successful, there's no one but yourself to blame.

53Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 16, 2011, 9:03pm Top

The U.S. has ostensibly been out of recession for quite some time now. Since June of '09.

54Phocion
Oct 16, 2011, 9:12pm Top

52: Once again, I never made the assertion that they cared about me; I don't know where you're picking this up. I know the system is amoral, and don't expect it to be any different. But I do know they, like the protestors, are after their own self-interest, which requires the economy to improve. What about this is difficult to believe, or does it destroy your black-vs-white good-vs-evil view of the world? How can you possibly be this economically inept?

55vpfluke
Oct 16, 2011, 9:14pm Top

I had 35 books shared on Friday (10/14), and now have 50 (10/16) on Sunday.

56Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 16, 2011, 9:14pm Top

Economically inept?

Their self-interest does not require that the economy improve. Their economic lives are already quite comfortable.

57Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 16, 2011, 9:15pm Top

Try this, Phocion.

58Phocion
Oct 16, 2011, 9:18pm Top

56: You're smart enough to know there is no such thing as "quite comfortable" for Americans. I expect this ineptitude from hippies, Tea Baggers, and those who follow Reaganomics, but not you. Concentrate on the actual biggest cause of the recession -government deregulation - and stop believing in boogeyman.

59Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 16, 2011, 9:20pm Top

Concentrate on the actual biggest cause of the recession -government deregulation - and stop believing in boogeyman.

You really haven't been following much about the OWS movement have you? Where do you believe the driving force for deregulation comes from?

60Phocion
Oct 16, 2011, 9:23pm Top

59: Amoral businesses and Republicans - thought the two are usually linked. I don't blame the dog for biting me, as that's in his nature. But should I not blame the people who vote for the leaders who deregulate? And those who waste their energy fighting against something they cannot change versus something they can?

61LolaWalser
Edited: Oct 17, 2011, 4:32pm Top

Some people try to change the world, others... moan in everybody's general direction. And moan. And moan. And moan. Pointlessly, narcissistically, interminably.

I share 101 books so far (some repeats), the first few:

Reform or Revolution by Rosa Luxemburg

Eye of the Heart by Barbara Howes

THE BOOK OF SONGS TRANSLATED FROM THE CHINESE by Arthur Waley

First-Order Logic by Raymond M. Smullyan

Tea by Stacey D'Erasmo

Bush in Babylon: The Recolonisation of Iraq by Tariq Ali

Socialism Utopian and scientific by Friedrich Engels

Little tales of misogyny by Patricia Highsmith

The Adventures and Misadventures of Maqroll (New York Review Books Classics) by Alvaro Mutis

The Parallax View (Short Circuits) by Slavoj Žižek

Violence : six sideways reflections by Slavoj Žižek

Russian Thinkers (Penguin Classics) by Isaiah Berlin

Nations and Nationalism since 1780: Programme, Myth, Reality (Canto) by E. J. Hobsbawm

The Complete Shorter Fiction of Virginia Woolf: Second Edition by Virginia Woolf

Death in midsummer and other stories by Yukio Mishima

62Phocion
Oct 17, 2011, 6:37pm Top

Lol, you think you're accomplishing something by these silly protests. How adorable. The Tea Baggers thought so, too.

63mkboylan
Oct 17, 2011, 7:40pm Top

60 you really think those votes were counted?

64Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 17, 2011, 7:44pm Top

Amoral businesses and Republicans - thought the two are usually linked. I don't blame the dog for biting me, as that's in his nature. But should I not blame the people who vote for the leaders who deregulate? And those who waste their energy fighting against something they cannot change versus something they can?

Hmmm.

There's a lot to chew on in there. If you can't blame the dog, why would you blame the people who vote for the dog. Surely that is just their nature. As it would be in the nature of those waste their own energy fighting against something they cannot change versus something they can.

65Phocion
Oct 17, 2011, 7:58pm Top

64: Touché. But, I'm mostly disappointed because I felt this had promise, if people redirected their energies to more logical sources: sit outside of Capitol Hill or the Department of Justice, or outside your Congressmen's and Senators' homes.

66TLCrawford
Oct 17, 2011, 8:04pm Top

60 "those who waste their energy fighting against something they cannot change versus something they can?" I have always been a fan of Don Quixote.

67Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 17, 2011, 8:07pm Top

Well, one of the more common complaints amongst the protestors is the commingling of economic and political interests. The idea that with money, one can buy patronage or access.

Like the commonly seen "I made this sign because I can't afford a lobbyist/Congressman."

68morningwalker
Oct 17, 2011, 8:27pm Top

When was the last time a common man without a large bankroll ran for office and was elected president??? Hmm...

69brightcopy
Oct 17, 2011, 9:19pm Top

Oooo, ooo, I know this one! Five presidents ago?

Oh wait, do you mean large bankroll BEFORE he ran for president, as opposed to running and having people donate to him? Isn't that kind of a trick question, if so?

On another topic, can I just say how surprised I am that it took this long to get off in the political debate weeds in this thread? I was sure it was going to happen before the posts hit double-digits...

70bookwoman247
Edited: Oct 18, 2011, 3:04pm Top

"I felt this had promise, if people redirected their energies to more logical sources: sit outside of Capitol Hill or the Department of Justice, or outside your Congressmen's and Senators' homes."

IMO, it is better directed at WS, etc.. This is growing exponentially by working outside the usual sytem. The problem is much larger than just the U.S. government. It is a global crisis. Ours is not the only economy which crashed...or nearly so. Ours is not the only nation to be experiencing this economic disparity. And there is no way government officials aren't hearing the message; although whether they choose to listen is another matter.

71Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 18, 2011, 4:16pm Top

There's a recent poll which indicates that while -

78% say Wall Street bears a great deal or a fair amount of blame for the economy.
87% say the same about Washington.


However, if you read further on, the number that blame Washington are divided between believing that our politicians have interfered too much, versus those who believe they haven't been active enough.

72timspalding
Oct 18, 2011, 4:34pm Top

Times of anger and misery are probably the only time you can get fundamental change. But they're unlikely to be times you're thinking clearly...

73Phocion
Oct 19, 2011, 11:51am Top

Cracked.com explained it better than I could: Three Types of Wall Street Protestors Hurting Their Own Cause

74brightcopy
Edited: Oct 20, 2011, 12:18pm Top

Please forgive the picspam, but I just couldn't help myself:

75jnwelch
Oct 20, 2011, 12:22pm Top

Excellent! Off it goes to my librarian friend.

76bookwoman247
Edited: Oct 20, 2011, 2:33pm Top

Thanks for sharing that pic, Brightcopy! It's perfect for LT!

77Phocion
Edited: Oct 21, 2011, 9:55am Top

Once it was revealed the protestors have caused over $16,000 in damages to our city parks and stolen $6,000 worth of merchandise from the 7-Elevens, one can already feel the tide here starting to turn against them. I give them another two weeks before even this liberal city has had it.

78brightcopy
Oct 21, 2011, 10:16am Top

Well, I'm sure if the founding fathers knew this whole freedom of assembly thing might cost actual money, they would have tossed it before the final draft...

79Phocion
Edited: Oct 21, 2011, 10:33am Top

Yes, stealing merchandise from local store owners - the majority of whom are first or second generation immigrant Americans just trying to work their jobs - is surely a sign of heroism. They supposedly care for the common man?

Our more intelligent Founders knew order was the key to successful change, not the emotional anarchy. The protestors are going to turn those who were inactive but still for them into actively against them, because nothing upsets the layman more than knowing their taxes will be footed to pay for damage to public areas without sufficient cause.

80brightcopy
Oct 21, 2011, 10:40am Top

#79 by Phocion> I think you're absolutely correct. We should definitely base our freedoms on how a small minority of troublemakers might use them to cloak their crimes.

81TLCrawford
Oct 21, 2011, 10:42am Top

If a few bad apples discredit an entire movement then every political party, government and religion should just go away in disgrace.

Walking on grass will damage it especially when the ground is wet. Exactly what are these damages? Does the sod need to be replaced? Has the sidewalks cracked? Have people knocked down statues and sold them for scrap?

Exactly who is steeling from the 7-Elevens? Is $6,000 an increase over the same time period before the protests? Ask questions before condemning a movement over a few sound bites.

82brightcopy
Oct 21, 2011, 10:51am Top

#81 by TLCrawford> Exactly who is steeling from the 7-Elevens? Is $6,000 an increase over the same time period before the protests?

I suspect there's some 7-Eleven shopkeepers in other areas that are noticing a nice drop in shoplifting. Or perhaps the suggestion is that normal, non-shoplifting people get all hopped up on freedom and turn to a life of petty crime?

83Phocion
Oct 21, 2011, 10:59am Top

80: A small but violent minority was all that was required before I criticized the Tea Baggers, and a small but easily manipulated minority is all I need before criticizing this group, as well. They're without leadership, without centralization, and without purpose. And if they continue, their legacy in the city will be, "Those hippies and middle class white kids who complained for two months and ruined our public parks."

81: We judge groups by their vocal minorities. All religious people become Fred Phelps. All capitalists become greedy social Darwinists. All Americans become loud, boorish idiots. At the end of the day, we have decided you have to monitor your own people. And you're more than willing to indulge in it, as long as it's not your group.

And, since you asked, yes, the theft increase was significantly higher than last year. And it didn't take Sherlock for them to find the cause.

84brightcopy
Oct 21, 2011, 11:08am Top

#83 by Phocion> I have to say, I'm glad you are in the minority on this one. Doesn't matter much to me that you're consistently wrong so much as that you're wrong. As said above, you can pretty much go through any group of people in social movements we now consider "the good guys" and find a minority using it for their own nefarious means.

I guess to you, the legacy of the fight to end Jim Crow is just "all those black folks rioting and those Black Panthers running around shooting cops."

85timspalding
Oct 21, 2011, 11:13am Top

$16,000 in damages to our city parks

With respect, what's that—one broken bench or two?

Love them or hate them, but I don't think that's much of an argument. It's like people who said Starr shouldn't have investigated Clinton because his office cost 30 million dollars.

86Phocion
Oct 21, 2011, 11:37am Top

84: Interesting that you compare yourself to the movements to end black oppression; just as delusional as the Tea Baggers who thought they were protesting another monarchy.

I hope I'm wrong, but the more I see from this movement (take all your money from the banks, plunge us into a depression, cost thousands of people their jobs, as long as we can stick it to The Man) the more I see an easily manipulated group of emotionally unreasonable people who can be led by the nose.

Wall Street may be amoral, but at least it wants the economy to recover. And since we're a republic, I could vote for people to regulate their more negative qualities, as long as the candidates were available. But the protestors think with their hearts and not their minds, and that kind of thinking leads to an emperor who crowns himself; although this group is so low on the radar of effectiveness, they won't accomplish much.

87brightcopy
Oct 21, 2011, 11:38am Top

#86 by Phocion> Wait, lets back up a moment over the point you so quickly dodged. So are you saying that the legacy of the civil rights movement is NOT the bad stuff perpetrated by a minority? I think your illogic is showing.

88Phocion
Oct 21, 2011, 11:42am Top

87: Perhaps, but you missed the point of my post: judging a group by it vocal minority may or may not be wrong, but we all do it to the groups we don't like. I'm just equal opportunity and fully aware of the hypocrisy.

89brightcopy
Oct 21, 2011, 11:52am Top

#88 by Phocion> judging a group by it vocal minority may or may not be wrong

Well, there ya go. I think you're really arguing my side of the argument better than I could.

90Phocion
Oct 21, 2011, 11:55am Top

89: I suppose. All sides declaring to be a people's movement start sounding so much alike.

91brightcopy
Oct 21, 2011, 12:04pm Top

#90 by Phocion> The problem is, you talk yourself into a corner that makes you against pretty much all social change. Because humans are humans and crowds are crowds and there will always be bad apples or simply imperfection. It may make you feel right to be "equal opportunity" in judging all such movements harshly, but I'm not sure how it's a tenable approach to civilization.

92TLCrawford
Oct 21, 2011, 1:12pm Top

When you say "Wall Street" wants the economy to improve who do you mean? Stock brokers charge a commission on each trade. They earn when the market goes up and when it goes down. Uncertainty is brings them the most profit so I doubt they care much it it goes up or down as long as people keep trading. The big banks have been turning profits for almost two years now, they have or are recovering. Median income for wage earners has not increased since the 1970s.

As far as "Wall Street" is concerned the economy is fine. For everyone on Main Street it is another story.

93Phocion
Oct 21, 2011, 1:24pm Top

91: I want change as much as the next discontented person. I would go about it in different ways. And I rarely trust crowd mentality that isn't centralized with a competent leader. But I won't lie; it only took me four years after voting age to become disillusioned with not only the system, but The People as well.

I'm too cynical to think anything will make any true difference in the larger picture. And I'm upset because I used to be as optimistic as the next young person. But second verse, same as the first.

94SqueakyChu
Edited: Oct 21, 2011, 3:48pm Top

> 93

I'm too cynical to think anything will make any true difference in the larger picture.

Maybe not - if your cyncism keeps you immobile. However, if your cynicism is because you detect a need for change, it should inspire you to try to correct what wrongs you can - even if it is *only* you who begins to make that change. As I was very recently told, "It often only takes the first voice to start the conversation".

95WholeHouseLibrary
Oct 21, 2011, 2:45pm Top

Personally, I blame Tim for this whole mess - starting this thread in Book Talk instead of, oh, Political Pros and Cons. What WAS he thinking?

96TLCrawford
Oct 21, 2011, 2:49pm Top

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
Margaret Mead

Neither of our major parties will say what the real problems are. Both parties are constantly sending out straw dogs. One party says the other murders babies. The other says the first wants to turn old people out into the street to die. BS.

Both parties support the Milton Friedman "Free Trade" policies that do make a small percent wildly rich but destroyed the economies of Chile, Argentine and Brazil and other nations. The only reason we are still on the internet and not in soup lines is that we had much farther to fall. Unfortunately the ground is coming toward us quickly.

97timspalding
Oct 21, 2011, 3:08pm Top

Hey, I was just talking about the library!

98bookwoman247
Oct 21, 2011, 3:15pm Top

#97 Tim: That's exactly what I was thinking. Your intent was to discuss the books that were left at the OWS library, wasn't it? I definitely don't think it's your fault that the conversation got run off the rails.

99timspalding
Oct 21, 2011, 3:33pm Top

Meh. LT discussions always go off the rails. There is no spoon. There are no rails. :)

100brightcopy
Oct 21, 2011, 3:45pm Top

Where we're going, we don't need rails.

Just procrastination from real work and opinions - the internet's chief natural resources.

101WholeHouseLibrary
Oct 21, 2011, 4:47pm Top

Lucky for you! I know what happened to the DeLorean.

102bookwoman247
Oct 21, 2011, 7:52pm Top

I beg to differ. I think there are rails. It's just that everyone has their own idea of which direction they should travel. There are rails all over the place going in any direction you could imagine! ;-)

103jnwelch
Oct 21, 2011, 8:23pm Top

But no spoon.

104Phocion
Oct 21, 2011, 10:10pm Top

At least we haven't Godwinned the thread.

+1

105Mr.Durick
Oct 21, 2011, 10:13pm Top

Hitler would have done it differently.

Robert

106clamairy
Oct 21, 2011, 10:14pm Top

107LolaWalser
Oct 22, 2011, 4:18pm Top

Next thing you know, the cat bent it. WITH ITS MIND.

108Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 22, 2011, 4:55pm Top

Believe it or not, the cat in that picture used to be straight before the spoon bent the cat with its mind.

109eromsted
Oct 23, 2011, 12:53am Top

It's getting bigger. There are now 38 more books I share with the OWS library.

Monopoly Capital by Baran and Sweezey
Static: Government Liars, Media Cheerleaders, and the People who Fight Back by Amy Goodman
Poor People's Movements: Why They Succeed, How They Fail by Piven and CLoward
Since Yesterday: The Nineteen-Thirties in America by Frederick Lewis Allen
Power Politics by Arundhati Roy
Ten Days that Shook the World by John Reed
Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 by Steve Coll
Man's Fate by Anrdé Malraux
Miss Lonelyhearts & The Day of the Locust by Nathanael West
Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media by Herman and Chomsky
Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl by Harriet Jacobs
What's the Matter with Kansas? by Thomas Frank
Yukon Ho! by Bill Watterson
Calvin and Hobbes by Bill Watterson
The Road to Serfdom by Hayek
The Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn
Something under the Bed is Drooling by Bill Watterson
The Days are Just Packed by Bill Watterson
Washington Square by Henry James
The Essential Calvin and Hobbes by Bill Watterson
Democracy in America by de Tocqueville
The History of Sexuality, Volume I by Foucault
Still Life with Woodpecker by Tom Robbins
The Return of the Native by Hardy
The Origin of Species by Darwin
The Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels
The Idiot by Dostoevsky
The Plague by Camus
Virgil's Æneid
Beowulf
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by Joyce
Ulysses by Joyce
War and Peace by Tolstoy
Love in the Time of Cholera by Marquez
Great Expectations by Dickens
Crime and Punishment by Dostoevsky
Jane Eyre by Bronte

And far more organized. The books are now labeled and sorted into shelves and bins by category.

The library is also featured in a front page article of the latest "Occupied Wall Street Journal." The fact that the books are being cataloged on LibraryThing got a mention, but the writer failed to give a link. Oh well, there's always google.

110timspalding
Oct 23, 2011, 1:09am Top

Wow. It's getting huge. Pretty soon the library will be occupying the park!

111SqueakyChu
Oct 24, 2011, 12:39pm Top

Trouble is a-brewin' at Occupy Portland. :(

112timspalding
Oct 24, 2011, 12:48pm Top

Yeah, pretty serious stuff. You can't throw something from a car with much accuracy, so it was lucky it didn't land closer to someone, and if it can lift a table a foot off the ground it could blow off someone's hand or even kill them.

113TLCrawford
Oct 24, 2011, 4:13pm Top

"Acting Police Chief Michael Sauschuck said today that detectives don't necessarily believe Occupy Maine was the sole target because another device was set off elsewhere that night. He described the device as the type often associated with teenage pranks."

I understand that the police are charged with keeping order as well as enforcing the law but throwing a bomb at a political rally is serious. I would be more comfortable with them calling in Homeland Security and over reacting that way then dismissing it as a prank.

114timspalding
Oct 24, 2011, 4:50pm Top

because another device was set off elsewhere that night

It's called testing.

115TLCrawford
Oct 24, 2011, 5:01pm Top

Exactly.

116eromsted
Oct 24, 2011, 8:12pm Top

>113 TLCrawford:
I get what you're saying and I hope that the police take this incident seriously. However, I'm opposed to the trend in federalizing local law enforcement and in treating crimes, no matter how grave, as national security issues.

So yes to a thorough police investigation and not dismissing it as a prank. But no to calling in Homeland Security.

117crazy4reading
Oct 25, 2011, 11:02am Top

Well I share 78 books with the library currently. I haven't really looked at the titles.

I got side tracked by the conversation of this thread.

118Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 25, 2011, 4:58pm Top

153 or so.

119readaholic12
Edited: Oct 26, 2011, 10:28pm Top

I share 119 books with OWS. I'm still impressed they have a library. A very literate protest organization, with a nice range of nonfiction, fiction and classics.

120readaholic12
Edited: Oct 26, 2011, 10:27pm Top

Tim > 99 Best commentary on derailed discussions yet. :)

121clamairy
Oct 27, 2011, 7:43am Top

281, at this point. These people have great taste! ;o)

122WholeHouseLibrary
Oct 27, 2011, 11:26am Top

Wow, Clam! You must be be psychic or something! I don't think we'll get to message #281 for a while yet.

123clamairy
Oct 27, 2011, 4:00pm Top

;o)
That's 281 books shared, WHL.

124WholeHouseLibrary
Oct 27, 2011, 5:00pm Top

Oh sure! We'll just have to wait, won't we?

125Jesse_wiedinmyer
Oct 27, 2011, 7:16pm Top

Meh. LT discussions always go off the rails. There is no spoon. There are no rails. :)

“Nature uses only the longest threads to weave her patterns, so each small piece of her fabric reveals the organization of the entire tapestry.” ~ Richard Feynman

126Amalie_Nymphenburg
Oct 29, 2011, 1:30pm Top

I share

31 in total
28 if you remove duplicates
17 that I have read
15 that I own
12 that I own and have read
8 that are in the same language
0 that are the same edition

And one that is my favorite: Frankenstein or The Modern Prometheus by Mary Shelley.

127WholeHouseLibrary
Oct 29, 2011, 7:48pm Top

My #3 message stated I had twenty books on common (two were duplicates). I checked earlier today, and the number now stands at eighty.

128artturnerjr
Nov 7, 2011, 5:51pm Top

96 books and 62 works, as follows (excluding redundant titles):

Great short works by Henry James
Invisible Republic: Bob Dylan's Basement Tapes by Greil Marcus
You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train: A Personal History of Our Times by Howard Zinn
Tarantula: Poems by Bob Dylan
Understanding Power: The Indispensable Chomsky by Noam Chomsky
The Portable Beat Reader (Viking Portable Library) by Ann Charters
On the Road: The Original Scroll (Penguin Classics Deluxe Edition) by Jack Kerouac
No One Gets Out Alive by Jerry Hopkins
Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media by Edward S. Herman
Brave New World Revisited (P.S.) by Aldous Huxley
Preacher Vol. 1: Gone to Texas by Garth Ennis
Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance (The American Empire Project) by Noam Chomsky
Danse macabre by Stephen King
The Doors of Perception & Heaven and Hell: Two Complete Nonfiction Works (Perennial Classics) by Aldous Huxley
Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf : a play by Edward Albee
The Island of Dr. Moreau by H. G. Well
Howl and Other Poems (City Lights Pocket Poets, No. 4) by Allen Ginsberg
The Turn of the Screw (Dover Thrift Editions) by Henry James
A Streetcar Named Desire by Tennessee Williams
Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong by James W. Loewen
Short Stories of Ernest Hemingway (A Scribner classic) by Ernest Hemingway
The invisible man by H. G. Wells
Childhood's end by Arthur Charles Clarke
Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance by Barack Obama
The Talisman by Stephen King
Bag of Bones by Stephen King
Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
Waiting for Godot: A Tragicomedy in Two Acts by Samuel Beckett
The Crucible (Penguin Plays) by Arthur Miller
A People's History of the United States: 1492 to Present by Howard Zinn
America (the book) : a citizen's guide to democracy inaction by Jon Stewart
Tao Te Ching: An Illustrated Journey by Lao-Tzu
Speaker for the Dead (Ender, Book 2) by Orson Scott Card
The Sound and the Fury: The Corrected Text by William Faulkner
Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson
A Farewell to Arms (A Scribner Classic) by Ernest Hemingway
The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay by Michael Chabon
Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by James Joyce
The Sun Also Rises (A Scribner Classic) by Ernest Hemingway
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
the old man and the sea by Ernest. Hemingway
The Giver by Lois Lowry
Hamlet (Dover Thrift Editions) by William Shakespeare
Moby-Dick (Bantam Classics) by Herman Melville
On the Road (Penguin Classics) by Jack Kerouac
Frankenstein by Mary Shelley
Great expectations by Charles Dickens
The Road (Oprah's Book Club) by Cormac McCarthy
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Lord of the flies : a novel by William Golding
Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut
Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury
Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Animal farm : and related readings by George Orwell
The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
1984 (Signet Classics) by George Orwell
Harry Potter and the sorcerer's stone by J. K. Rowling

I'm also proud to be able to say that they've accepted my friend request. :)

129readaholic12
Nov 7, 2011, 6:04pm Top

137 shared books now...

130theoria
Nov 15, 2011, 2:13am Top

Police are clearing the park; reports that the library is destroyed.

131theoria
Nov 15, 2011, 2:51am Top

twitter feed: RT BostonReview
Seeing 1000s of books thrown into a dumpster at night by black-dressed, helmeted police more disturbing a vision than I imagined.

132clamairy
Edited: Nov 15, 2011, 7:55am Top

I hope someone got photos or video of that disgraceful behavior.

133TLCrawford
Nov 15, 2011, 8:11am Top

Property rights are sacred in the United States. Unless you cross someone with more property.

Of course the books had to be destroyed. They contained ideas and, therefore, are the most dangerous weapons.

134brightcopy
Nov 15, 2011, 10:05am Top

Of course the books had to be destroyed. They contained ideas and, therefore, are the most dangerous weapons.

A tad melodramatic, no? I don't think they feared the revolutionary ideas of Hello Kitty Mammoth Coloring & Activity. More likely they threw away EVERYTHING that was left there into dumpsters. So their dangerous books joined their dangerous bags of Cheetos.

135timspalding
Nov 15, 2011, 10:36am Top

Yes, a tad dramatic and conspiratorial. I very much doubt the police had a special animus against the library. They also had no special respect for it either, which is unfortunate.

I understand the police wanted to clear the park, and I can see some reasons, but police raids on peaceful, sleeping protestors at 3am is not the sort of thing a democracy should do. And trashing a library of 5,000 books adds a extra, sinister touch.

136brightcopy
Edited: Nov 15, 2011, 11:06am Top

#135 by timspalding> Actually, it started at 1am and gave them 20 minutes to get their things and go. I highly doubt a large group of densely packed people were all snug in their beds at 1am in New York. Maybe if it'd been Occupy St. Paul... And I'm not sure how it could possibly ever have gone any other way. You think if they gave them 3 hours notice they'd have made sure to shepherd all the books away? I'm pretty it would have all panned out the same, with the probably exception that the people would have done as in Oakland and spread out to block all the traffic. And I wouldn't be shocked to find out that "1000s of books" being thrown away might be, let's just say, "slightly" exaggerated. People love drama.

Honestly, I'm more for the protesters than against, and I'm not one of these people spouting the "they're not protesting against anything in particular!" nonsense. But the plain fact of the matter is that they were NOT particularly organized and did not have any specific goals that could be achieved in order to meet their demands.

If you look at the Civil Rights marches, you'll see that they were effective because they had specific goals so they knew when to declare victory. I just don't know that an "occupy" movement can be successful without very specific and limited demands. And it wasn't even a sit-in, where you disrupt business and make it painful for that business, thus making them listen to your demands. It was just a bunch of people who had decided that this is where they live now, until the "system becomes more fair." I just don't see how you ever declare victory in such a situation.

It also doesn't help that it was private property, not public. Aren't there public parks they could have occupied, thus giving them a little more solid legal footing? Or are practically all of the useful parks in NY privately owned? (Honest question.)

137morningwalker
Edited: Nov 15, 2011, 11:16am Top

I hope the current actions against OWS make them stronger with a more concrete course of action. As my mother always told us "if it doesn't kill ya, it'll make you stronger." That is disturbing about the books. I don't think I can even look at any pictures of the event.

leaped - 136 - I agree with you about them being more effective with specific goals. I have spoken to others about this very issue and they say, well occupy is just about everything.

I say, no - It was a good starting point, but followers, and those they want to impact need to know specifics if anything is to change. If demands aren't presented pretty soon everyone loses interest.

138theoria
Nov 15, 2011, 11:16am Top

Public parks in NYC have a curfew (1am-6am). It's no accident Zuccotti was selected: it's private and near Wall St. Despite being a "leaderless movement," the occupiers at Zuccotti were highly organized: how does one set up a library, kitchen, General Assembly, media, legal assistance, safe tents for women, etc. without organization?

139brightcopy
Nov 15, 2011, 11:21am Top

#137 by morningwalker>I have spoken to others about this very issue and they say, well occupy is just about everything.

It's an example of what's best and what's worst about liberals, a group I include myself in. There is an ethos that everyone's ideas and opinions are valid and valued. It doesn't always make for an effective force unless some charismatic leaders (King, Ghandi) take charge.

#138 by theoria> Public parks in NYC have a curfew

They were already breaking the law by staying in the park when they were told to leave weeks and weeks ago. I'm not sure what relevance a curfew has.

how does one set up a library, kitchen, General Assembly, media, legal assistance, safe tents for women, etc. without organization?

There's the micro and there's the macro. They were great at the micro. Not so good at the macro.

140morningwalker
Nov 15, 2011, 11:25am Top

#139 - Therefore, the "leaderless" group of OWS needs a leader. Any takers??

141brightcopy
Nov 15, 2011, 11:38am Top

#140 by morningwalker> Going off on a tangent, I wonder if there will be. Would King have been an effective figure in the age we live in now? Or would he be just another flawed leader brought down by sex scandals? (It wasn't just the FBI saying he had numerous affairs.) Power has a tendency to provide you access to questionable things. In the past, that could be swept under the rug. The rug is a lot smaller these days.

142bostonbibliophile
Nov 15, 2011, 5:22pm Top

135, yes. and the police should have allowed the press to be present rather than chasing them away (including chasing at least one press helicopter out of the airspace).

143rarm
Edited: Nov 15, 2011, 5:40pm Top

gothamist is reporting that the books are safe.

http://gothamist.com/2011/11/15/occupy_wall_street_library.php

the library organizers themselves do not entirely agree:

http://peopleslibrary.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/and-where-is-the-rest-of-it/

144brightcopy
Nov 15, 2011, 6:23pm Top

#136 by brightcopy> And I wouldn't be shocked to find out that "1000s of books" being thrown away might be, let's just say, "slightly" exaggerated. People love drama.

Ahem.

145timspalding
Nov 16, 2011, 12:27am Top

146artturnerjr
Nov 16, 2011, 12:42am Top

I'm sorry, but I find the police's actions incredibly disturbing; there's more than a little bit of a disconnect between what happened early this morning in Zuccotti Park and how protest should proceed in a country whose citizenry is supposed to be the freest in the world.

147rebeccanyc
Nov 16, 2011, 7:09am Top

On the Rachel Maddow show last night, they showed the OWL library on LibraryThing and talked about LT! I was just walking by while my sweetie was watching so I didn't catch the whole thing but they showed LT screen shots right up on the screen.

148SqueakyChu
Edited: Nov 16, 2011, 8:37am Top

> 145

Thanks for sharing that broadcast, Tim.

149brightcopy
Nov 16, 2011, 9:55am Top

#147 by rebeccanyc> Yup, that's what Tim linked to in #145.

150artturnerjr
Nov 16, 2011, 10:17am Top

>147 rebeccanyc:

Yay, Rachel! I DVR her show but haven't watched last night's episode yet. Thanks for the heads-up, rebeccanyc. :)

151rebeccanyc
Nov 16, 2011, 12:12pm Top

#149 That's what I get for logging into LT before I have my coffee!

152brightcopy
Nov 16, 2011, 6:21pm Top

From the link Tim retweeted about the history of the OWS Library:

The day is destined to live on in infamy and Mayor Bloomberg will rightly take his place next to Hitler, whose coordinated book attacks in May of 1933 attempted to silence the opposition.

Nicely Godwined, sir.

153timspalding
Nov 16, 2011, 7:39pm Top

Snort. RT isn't approval, as you surely know.

154rebeccanyc
Edited: Nov 16, 2011, 8:14pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

155brightcopy
Nov 16, 2011, 9:30pm Top

#153 by timspalding> I was trying to give context to why I brought it up in this thread.

156prosfilaes
Nov 17, 2011, 7:34am Top

I've got 96 in common. It's a pretty typical intersection, one that I've seen a number of times before. All the standard literary works, most of which I bought hoping I'll get around to them someday, plus some popular fantasy and science fiction. At least it beats the alternative; I'm left scratching my head when I'm looking at 2000 book library and there's no intersection on the standard literary works.

157theoria
Nov 22, 2011, 10:10am Top

brightcopy wrote:
#138 by theoria> Public parks in NYC have a curfew

They were already breaking the law by staying in the park when they were told to leave weeks and weeks ago. I'm not sure what relevance a curfew has.


OWS location criteria: "P. writes: General criteria: A high-visibility space near Wall Street and Broadway, that can hold two thousand people, and is preferably a Privately Owned Public Space (P.O.P.S.), which are not subject to city park curfews and many of which are required by law to be open twenty-four hours a day. I’ve noted the locations that were seen as auxiliaries, meaning that they were possible sites for hosting smaller general assemblies in the event that the first general assembly was dispersed, and/or to spread out the police presence in the event that the map reached authorities."

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-map.ht...

158Jesse_wiedinmyer
Nov 22, 2011, 3:14pm Top

Can someone explain this to me -

Student shot at UC Berkeley has died, university says

BERKELEY, Calif | Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:42pm EST
(Reuters) - A University of California, Berkeley student who was shot in a campus computer lab not far from the scene of anti-Wall Street protests has died of his injuries, the university said on Wednesday.

Christopher Nathen Elliot Travis, 32, died late on Tuesday afternoon at Highland General Hospital in Oakland, hours after the shooting at the Haas School of Business, university spokesman Dan Mogulof said.

University police said there is no indication that the incident was related to a day of rallies at Berkeley linked to anti-Wall Street protests.


What does that have to do with anything?

1592wonderY
Nov 22, 2011, 4:24pm Top

Rumors may have started linking the two events.

160Jesse_wiedinmyer
Nov 22, 2011, 4:37pm Top

If rumors didn't, then the article certainly did.

161eromsted
Nov 23, 2011, 4:33pm Top

Recorded stream of OWS press conference on the destruction of the library during the raid last week; what was recovered, what was destroyed or lost, what should be done, Q&A.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/18701954

The cameraman arrived and started recording about 18 min. early, so you might want to skip ahead.

162LolaWalser
May 1, 2012, 1:14pm Top

Happy May Day, see you in the streets!

163TLCrawford
May 1, 2012, 2:50pm Top

Happy Labor Day (at least in much of the world) where they commemorate the legal murder of several labor activists executed to "fight terrorism" after the 1886 Chicago Haymarket Riot.

164LolaWalser
May 2, 2012, 8:50am Top

Much as I'd like to believe everyone knows their labour history, I doubt Haymarket's foremost in anyone's May Day celebrations now.

165TLCrawford
May 2, 2012, 11:19am Top

That is exactly why it needs to be mentioned.

166LolaWalser
May 2, 2012, 3:19pm Top

Not a problem; I'm simply pointing out that in 120+ years celebrations of May Day acquired much wider significance than that of mere commemoration of a single event--and that quite soon after the event. And there were many other May Day riots and victims since too.

167clamairy
Apr 10, 2013, 9:21am Top

Hey, New York City settled the suit over the seizure of the OWS library!

http://online.wsj.com/article/APe5b116a2472e4507957302cba4dae404.html

168mkboylan
Apr 10, 2013, 11:17am Top

That is such great news!!! Thanks for posting that.

169TLCrawford
Apr 10, 2013, 11:25am Top

"A spokeswoman for the city's Law Department, Sheryl Neufeld, released a statement saying that there are many reasons to settle a case and "sometimes cases are settled to avoid drawn-out litigation that bolsters plaintiff attorney fees.""

Which, if I understand it is a way of saying, "We were going to loose anyway so there was no reason to keep fighting and hand over more money to OWS's lawyers."

170clamairy
Apr 10, 2013, 11:26am Top

Yup! Either that or, "The money we'll win won't begin to cover what it will cost us to 'buy that win,' so we're giving up now." ;o)

171timspalding
Apr 10, 2013, 3:14pm Top

>169 TLCrawford:

I don't think they feared losing per se. New York City has the money to cover whatever OWS wanted. But not settling kept it open. I think they feared the continued drip-drip-drip of bad press.

172TLCrawford
Apr 10, 2013, 5:11pm Top

It was May of last year that any post was made here on the topic. We seem to be more interested than the general public. I don't see this as being a PR concern for New York. Honestly, they might have brought it up themselves if something really bad hit the news. Did something else happen in New York we should be looking at now?

NYC has the money but generally I believe governments prefer to keep their money when they can. They have their lawyers on staff so however long the case takes their own legal fees are not a concern to the city. No matter how I try to look at the lawyers statement to me it says they were going to lose.

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