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I received my copy of Night this week and the book is beautiful. One thing I wasn't expecting, though: Wiesel's signature is on a type of bookplate that is affixed to a page stating the number of the edition (i.e., 75 of 850). All of the other signed Easton Press editions I have include the author's signature on a special page bound with the rest of the book. I wonder why Easton Press produced Night in this way. It seems the publisher could just as easily have sent Wiesel limitation pages to sign instead of bookplates, which I think somewhat cheapens the look of the book
That is disappointing. They do this so they can make any number of signed editions in the future by using those same bookplates.
One reason why I wait until others reply about DELs, there may be hidden dislikes or faults.
Actually, many of the signed EP editions use tipped in signature pages. Tipped in pages are preferable to signed bookplates but not as nice as having bound in signatures.
>4 kdweber:: What other signed EP editions use tipped in signature pages? I'm not aware of many ... in fact, off the top of my head I can't think of any.
>5 wailofatail: The Affluent Society, The Double Helix, Thousand Acres, Interpreter of Maladies, Welcome to the Monkey House... In fact, I can't find any signed EP's in my collection that aren't tipped in.
>6 kdweber:: I was not aware of this. Thank you for enlightening me.
Probably all Easton signature pages are tipped in. It would be far to expensive to ship books to the author to sign. Perhaps an author could go to Easton and sign books, but I doubt if any have.
Vonnegut books are good examples of tipped in pages, leafs signed then bound with the book itself after months or years in storage.
Perhaps I am confused over terminology. My understanding of 'tipped in' is that one piece of paper is applied over the top of another, i.e. adhered, at least along one edge. Bound in, in my understanding, is that a single page is bound and held fast by the binding, regardless that the page may have been signed prior to binding. A bookplate is a peel-n-stick adhesive backed label specially made to be affixed to the page of a book. Am I mistaken?
Tipped in is a single page glued in at the gutter. Bound in would have been sewn in at the time of constructing the book itself. Book plate is of course a small plate glued or laid in anywhere that is desired.
>11 Wootle:: When Easton Press discusses tipped in illustrations they are not glued in at the gutter; rather they are glued, generally along one edge so that they can be lifted up from the opposite side, on a page reserved for the tipped in illustration.
Presumably this is how EP are able to produce signed editions years after an authors death? It’s still nice to have the authors signature but personally for me, as a collector, I would put greater value on a book that has the authors signature on a bound in page. It gives me a thrill to know that the author has actually held the book and signed it.
>11 Wootle:: Found this definition at Tappin Book Mines' Book Collector's Glossary, which seems to support my understanding of the term.
Something is said to be "tipped in" a book when it has been attached to a page of the book by it's corners only. The point is that the entire back surface is NOT slathered with glue and firmly attached. When the entire, or most of the back surface of the object it attached, it is "pasted in" or perhaps "glued on". If an entire edge is attached, it may still be refered to as "tipped in". The usual means of attachment is glue or paste, however it is concevable some other means may be used. The object "tipped in" is nearly always of paper, as an illustration, letter, paper sample or such. Illustations "tipped in" lend an aura of quality to books, as it is perceived to be a more expensive and finer way of including illustrations. It is no doubt more expensive, but fine illustrations can be bound in as well and large numbers of tipped in plates tend to swell the text block of the book, potentially creating problems of manufacture, handling and storage.
>6 kdweber:: With regard to the books you mention above, are they tipped in by the definition above?
>8 Wootle:: I concur that the signed pages that you find in most E/P signed editions are almost certainly signed prior to binding but is there any evidence to suggest the pages, once signed, aren't bound into the book? I always presumed the pages were sent out, signed, sent back, and then bound with the rest of the book. I think that would be much more cost effective than gluing in a single page in so many editions and wouldn't you almost be guaranteed a slight deviation from the other pages that would be visible to the eye, especially since the gilding on the page edges accentuates nearly every imperfection?
You're both right.
"Tipped in" is commonly used to refer both to color plates that are attached to a page by their "tips" (rather than their entire backs being covered with glue) and to entire pages that are glued in place after the signatures (individual sections of the text block) have been sewn.
You can find plenty of descriptions of each technique on the web by searching for "tipped in plates" and "tipped in pages", respectively.
Are the dates on the signed certificate of authenticity always the author's birthday? I find it a little strange that they would get the author to do a bunch of signing on their birthday.
I noticed this because I happen to know that I share a birthday with Susan Cooper, and The Dark Is Rising sequence was the first set of EP books I bought.
I've personally never seen a cert with the author's B-Day. It's typically the day they signed it.
Ugh, ugh, ugh, I was so looking forward to this book but the treatment of the signature is revolting to me. I will try to keep an open mind (as I might still have purchased even without the author signature) but this design cheapens the overall presentation and makes the EP Retail price completely overstated. I fear I will be sending my copy back but will reserve final judgement until I see it.
I am afraid that I share your thoughts about this "possible" issue, though I will do the same as you and decide after I have seen the volume myself. However since I live across the Atlantic I hope I am not mistaken to hope I will see some pictures of the book and the way they solved the signature.
I realize that EP or any publisher with a reasonable large limitation is going to have the author sign separate leaves but I would prefer that these were then bound in with the book rather than tipped in.
If they are tipped in in the manner that Wootle suggests I don't have any problem with that. Regrettably, my impression from wrenegade's original post is that the signature is on a bookplate, that is adhered inside the book. This really is cheap, in my opinion and shame on E/P if this is the case.
Here's a photo of the signature page in Night. The white bookplate is affixed to another page showing the edition (mine is 75 of 850)
Hmmmm. I'm very suspicious that E/P may have had extra signed pages from some of their many other signed editions of 'Night' but that they were the wrong sheet size for the intended format of this edition. Easy solution, cut the signed sheets down to bookplate size and tip them in. Speaking of which, are they actually tipped in or are they fully applied, i.e. full back adhesive style?
Well after panicking the group, thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to upload a picture. I will reserve final judgement until I can see it in person, but based on your picture, that is not nearly as bad I as expecting!
Did I read someone in the promotional literature that the signature also comes with a certificate of authenticity?
Geez ... I didn't intend to "panic" anyone. I simply stated that the bookplate was unexpected.
What I do expect is something a little better for nearly $300. But the rest of the book is, as I stated, beautiful.
And, no, there is no certificate of authenticity for the signature. Hope that doesn't panic you, either.
No, not yet panicked :-) Congratulations BTW on getting number 75. I always hope for a nice special memorable number and always end up with a crappy one.
"The Deluxe Limited Edition of Night comes in a stamped, fabric-covered slipcase and includes a hand-numbered certificate of authenticity."
I assume those bookplates are fully glued to the page, which is unacceptable for EP to do this. The tipped in pages are acceptable, barely, but this is over the top, especially for the price. I have to believe I will be returning my copy once it arrives. I believe Wiesel has another signed EP, so I see no reason for them to do this kind of thing. Wail is probably correct and EP just used some signatures from a stockpile and cut them down.
There is a certificate that states the book is personally signed by Wiesel and that the edition is strictly limited to 850 copies.
However, there is no certificate of authenticity that usually comes with EP signed editions -- the ones that show the author's signature and a witness signature.
I'm certainly not trying to steer anyone away from purchasing this book. I'm just a little disappointed -- and feel a bit misled -- in the way it was produced.
I also bought the Vonnegut limited edition and was very pleased with that one.
Anyone can print up a book plate, get it signed by the author, and stick it in a book. Its not the same as having the author sign an actual page in the book.
Ah well, that must have been a fun way for Ms Cooper to spend her 73rd (and my 16th).
I realize wrenegade was not intending to start a stampede of returns but I can't help feeling a bit of that "here we go again" with the latest EP publishing disappointment and overhyped marketing. One of these days (perhaps) I will learn and stop sending Easton Press my hard-earned money. If this was an isolated incident, I would be a bit more forgiving but unfortunately this kind of callous disregard for their most committed and high-spending customers just leaves me with nothing but a bitter aftertaste from yet another underwhelming EP experience. I have just about had all I can take. Perhaps it would be best to leave this company to the reselling vultures to pick the remaining flesh off the bone. I think I'll find my sustenance elsewhere for a while.
33 > That's the only impact that has an effect on the company really - not buying their products. So I commend you for it. If we all complain about it then go ahead and buy it anyway that does nothing.
>26 UK_History_Fan:: I have to ask ... what is special or memorable about seventy-five?
It is a nice number. I tend to prefer even numbers or those that end in 5...always have. And as a CPA, I do like my numbers!!! For example, I like 20, 25, 32, 44, 66, 666, but not 213, 277, 81, 111, etc. It is hard to explain, but I never get a "nice" EP or Folio limited edition number!
I am similar, but I like numbers that are multiples of 5 or ones such as 11, 22, 33, etc. So unlike you, I would like 111, but ordinary even numbers like 32 don't do it for me.
Of course, I haven't yet bought any LEs, so I'm just talking about numbers in general.
I consider the only numbers that are very neat would be the first one in the printing, the last, then birthday years, printing years, some others but not keeping track about them this year.
Call me superstitious but I wouldn't include the number 666 among my favorites. On more than one occasion I have been tempted by a dark voice in the back of my head urging me to only place my bid for 66.60 and I will be guaranteed to win. Without fail, so far, I respond with a mental "Get behind me" and change my bid to 66.59. In my mind, at least, I have not yet sold my soul for my collection, though some near and dear to me might argue the point.
>33 UK_History_Fan: I've got the older signed edition of Night with the standard tipped in signature page; however, this edition is not illustrated (with the exception of a frontispiece) and has a very high limitation (3500). The new DLE looks much nicer.
I took the plunge and got this. It is nice that they are doing another DLE of a modern book.
I agree. I'd like to see them do a few more modern ones. Maybe cut into the obscene profit margin a bit to do a non public domain book or 2.
My copy arrived today. It is definitely overpriced and the pasted in bookplate signature is just tacky. The book is smaller than I was expecting (I really should start checking book dimensions). But I have to say the quality control seems better than many recent DLEs as this copy has no flaws other than a flimsier slipcase than other DLEs at least along the side walls. Mine appears unattractively concave when viewed from the book spine. The leather covers seem like standard EP fare (thus my overpriced comment) rather than the more luxurious bindings typically found in a DLE. It doesn't seem nearly as nicely done as Fahrenheit 451. But the illustrations are incredible and very moving. It actually reminded me of an LEC production the way they are carefully folded in with a mixture of color and B&W gatefold pull outs. there were more pictures than I was expecting. I will be keeping it but need to add it to the growing list of questionable recent EP choices.
Received my copy today.
Cons: Paper endpapers, bookplate signature, ugly blue illus background and endpapers and sig page, for me the fold out illustrations (I really don't like them), cheaper made than usual slipcase, overpriced.
Pros: Wiesel sig, nice illustrations, hmmm...
Just got mine. I like it. :-) Maybe I am easier to please, but for the price, I am very glad to have this, much better than the previous edition I had of it.
Regarding the signature. Having a bookplate tipped in or glued and calling it a signed copy is really deceptive. It's clearly not. I wish they would stop doing this. We might as well buy a signature on eBay for $10.00 and put it into the book.
I agree as well. I imagine they do this so the author doesn't have to open each book and sign it... they just mail them a bunch of bookplates and presto!
If that were the case more E/P signed editions would be this way. I'm sticking with my theory that E/P had pre-signed limitation sheets that didn't match the format of the book and were consequently trimmed down and tipped in.
I second your theory as the most plausible one offered. A disappointment, in any case.
They would not need to - as long as they have the pages signed, they can get sewed in - which is how most of these editions are done. But I would agree with everyone else here - something was wrong with the size or the first cut was too deep or something like that. Which makes it a bad surprise anyway
I was excited also before receiving it. Afterwards, I felt ripped off. It shouldn't have cost much more than an ordinary 79.95 signed first edition. Paper endpapers and a bookplate signature, I hope this isn't a trend.
Wow - the photographs look amazing - especially the black leather - thanks for being an enabler :-)
Hi All, sorry for the double post, but I do have more pictures up here...
Love the pictures, but what is with the baby burning. Reminds me of the clip from Alexander Nevsky
- skip to 00:27:30
Germans really love to burn babies huh? - or - is it just a stupid propaganda clip...hmm....honestly, this is getting old...
>58 kdweber: I believe it is from one of the things Elie Wiesel saw soon after arriving at the camps. A truck came up full of the bodies of children which were then dumped into a pit and burned. And yes, there are plenty of eye witness accounts of Nazis burning people alive.
>57 Svartalf: No Germans didn't love burning babies, but a few individuals who wore SS on their uniform and happened to be German didn't seem to mind it.
I guess Robert Bale are not a german, but he did burn half a dozen of babies recently. this horrible things still happen . in the real world people do burn babies, not propaganda. and not old.
>58 kdweber:, 59 - It is just strange that this action is so simular to the clip from Eisenstein's film which was made in 1938. So I'm just wondering did Eisenstein predicted what Germans would do, or were the Germans 'inspired' by the film...
What is important to note is that Eisenstein made the film to warn people against the growing German power, so even though the film is set in a historical setting, it deals with contemporary issues.
As for burnign people alive...not sure where you heard that, but I belive only dead bodies were burned. It just doesn't make sence to burn people who provide slave labor. I think only when the slave outlived his usefulness, he would be gassed and then the body would be burned...but I might be wrong, don't claim to be an expert on the subject, nor have been there or known anyone who was...so if you can point me to any primary source where it states that people were burned alive, I'd like to read about it.
Sorry for another off topic .. but since you ask
Off the top of my head.....Google south Africa + Necklacing. and there are many more source , which I do not have the appetite to list here.
>62 kafkachen: I was specifically refering to concentration camps during WW2.
>61 Svartalf: The burning of dead children in the illustration is from Wiesel's eye witness account; However, the Nazis did indeed burn men, women and children alive; e.g. there are multiple well documented cases of the Nazis rounding people up, putting them into a building, locking the doors and setting the building on fire. The Nazis were more interested in murdering Jews than maximizing slave labor, e.g the massacres at Baba Yar for one. In fact, one could argue that the Nazis were more interested in murdering Jews than winning the war since they diverted much needed transport at the end of the war to their Jewish eradication effort rather than using the transport for carrying troops, ammunition and other war material to the front lines.
>64 kdweber: Once again, I am referring to the concentration camps specifically. Why would the Nazis transport the prisoners of war ( people of many nationalities were sent to the labor camps, not just Jews) just to burn them alive on arrival. Really makes no sense... Why not simply kill them there and then? Why stage this entire logistical operation?
True, what Nazi's did denies most logic, but I have never come across a document that specifically states that prisoners were burned alive upon arrival to the camp. The bodies of dead, the unfortunate - or fortunate, depends on how you look at this - once who died on the way perhaps, but not the living.
As for killing Jews (not only, because people of other nationalities died in the camps - speaking about Бабий Яр, or as you spelled it - Baba Yar - between 100,000 - 150,000 were executed there of which only 33,000 were of Jewish heritage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babi_Yar#cite_note-rpmag1-2) vs. winning the war. I would disagree with you. Of course it was more important to win the war simply because if you lost it, you wouldn't be around to carry out the exterminations. Though I do understand where you are coming from, it is a popular, modern tendency to have events of Holocaust overshadows the actual war and the terrible price that the nations of Europe, Asia and Americas paid in its wake.
>65 Svartalf: Again, I think there is ample evidence that the Nazis did not organize their concentration camps to maximize slave labor. Arrivals were separated upon entry and many were marched immediately to the gas chambers. Why recut the steps of a quarry, making them irregular and much harder to climb, if you only wanted to increase production? Why indeed. Obviously, the Nazis were concerned more with torture, humiliation and extermination than with cheap labor. These camps are know as death camps for a reason!
65> Why not simply kill them there and then? Why stage this entire logistical operation?
...because the success of the Nazi "Final Solution" depended in part on it being implemented under the world's radar, so to speak. Hence all the euphemisms and subterfuge.
66> Again, I think there is ample evidence that the Nazis did not organize their concentration camps to maximize slave labor. Arrivals were separated upon entry and many were marched immediately to the gas chambers.
The Nazi's distinguished between the extermination camps (such as Auschwitz), which were explicitly designated to carry out Eichmann's genocidal mandate, and the regular concentration camps (such as Dachau) which, although they were not created with explicit intent of killing their inhabitants, nevertheless resulted in an enormous number of casualties from starvation, disease and exhaustion (with prisoners literally being worked to death).
"Alexander Nevsky," though it is a very entertaining film, is Stalinist propaganda, made before Molotov signed the "non-aggression" pact with Hitler, at which time Soviet officials pulled the film from release. In propaganda terms, few acts equal murdering children to stir up hatred towards your enemy. As for the Germans being "inspired" by the film, I wonder how many of the SS ever saw it.
Just got mine. Is this really a $270 book? Thinking of returning mine?
Good question that everyone needs to ask themselves that buys it or is thinking of buying it. I like the edition myself, and think it pretty well done. Good question though if $270 is worth it. To me, on the surface of it, yes....but then when comparing against some other books one can get for $270, especially any of a large number of damn nice fine condition LEC's, perhaps it is harder to justify?
It is in fact unjustifiable and sheer corporate profit greed. Still, I'm keeping my copy so I guess it is something about which I have very mixed emotions. Glad to own it, but can still hear my wallet crying out "rape, rape, rape!"
For most of my reading friends, $9.99 is the highest price that is justified for a book... This group is a bit different but then everyone has their threshold. I have an Arion Press book and I would buy it again if I have to make the choice. And I have a few DLEs.
Is this one worth the money? That's up to everyone to decide for themselves... if you feel that it is not worth, don't buy or return it. If you decide to keep it, good... but then you made your choice to spend the money...
Just thinking aloud here :)
Patience is best for titles you are not 100% sure of, better to wait before an impulsive or immediate buy from EP.
Yes for sure.
I have ordered and recieved the book though I am on the fence whether I think I can justify the price to myself. I do think it is priced to high, but then again eventhough I also agree on the issues here raised in regards to the signing of the book then I think that after a while I will not mind owning it even at its price.
I am keeping my copy, and if I decide to depart from it in the future I can always put it up for sale.
I received my copy yesterday, and I like the way the book is made. I think the design is appropriate (for example, silk end pages, I think, would not feel right for the contents of the book); the color choice of the paper and the way the paper feels are all very appealing to me. I think that the binding has been done very well, the book opens nicely, and it does feel appropriately luxurious – too much of a luxury would be wrong in this context. On the first look, I think that the design and the way the book is made are close to perfect to me.
I think that it is possible that the signature plate has been done in such way by design, and it does not bother me at all. I was concerned before I received the book, because I have been reading and agreeing with most of the comments above, but, now that I received the book, I do not regret buying it. By the way, the size of the book does not seem too small to me, either.
Even I got my book yesterday and I don't regret getting it. I too believe the design is apt and the book in itself looks gorgeous.
Just came across this video, any thoughts?
Yes, these are well known questions surrounding the author.
But despite of all these, it is still a good book and it represents a good reading, but I would classify it as fiction mixed with some true facts, as opposed to a true eyewitness account.
Wow. Did a little reading after seeing that video. Seems possible that wiesel is a weasel.
The video in the link was done by a man who hates everything Jewish. I followed the link and looked through several of his videos, and he attacks Jews in every episode by fabricating evidence and showing random, out of context photos, clips, etc., designed to influence opinions of his viewers. It looks like he is quite successful at what he does.
This is the same propaganda as was/is used by fascists, soviet communists, and other radical regimes though history – just accuse, while showing random shocking clips, photos, and other “credible proofs” to your horrified viewers and listeners, and they will be ready to hate, support, act, and kill.
In this particular video, the author bases 99% of his evidence on the book “Identity Theft” by Gruner. I have tried locating this book on Google, Amazon, and Abebooks, but the only mention of it I found is on a website by the same author who made the video. In one of many instances of false evidence, the video shows us a picture of a man (who we already believe to be Mr. Gruner himself even though there is no proof of it) holding a picture of (we assume) Wiesel, and the caption is added to the photo by the author of the video that says “He was NOT my fellow prisoner”.
Please also note that though the author of the video shows us a picture of Wiesel’s book along with a picture of burning babies, he fails to show us a picture of “Identity Theft” book to which he is referring all the time. The illustration of burning babies was done by David Olére independently from Wiesel, years ago, and not as an illustration for the book “Night”. So, the author of this chauvinistic group of videos is in effect attacking any eye-witness account of babies being burned in the concentration camp.
In another moment, we are told that one Fred Luther (“Federal Court and Execution Technology expert”??) verified ground conditions at the concentration camp. We are shown a random photo of a men who we suppose to believe is the above-named Fred Luther; however, after I tried to find any information about him through Google, I was not successful in locating such an expert, whether Luther or Luter.
There are might be some legitimate questions about Wiesel, but this video is done by a chauvinist, and the facts there are fabricated, like in all of his other videos.
Apparently this is the book in question here, it took a while to find it: http://www.scribd.com/doc/56853957/Stolen-Identity-Auschwitz-A-7713. I don't have time to actually read through it.
I checked out more of this guy's videos, and you're right - he attacks Jews over and over, which, for me, brings into question his credibility on this particular video.
But I wonder how come we don't see any tattos on Weisel's arms in the video.
>82 tag83: "But I wonder how come we don't see any tattos on Weisel's arms in the video."
Resolution? Tattoos can be removed. Insufficient data.
>81 booksforreading: Well to be honest, I wouldn't judge the guy so harshly. I mean, I watched his videos and it seems he was a Jew before converting to Christianity. He had his reasons. He did this, as he claims, after discovering the things that Jews are taught about Christian and non-Jews in general from the Talmud.
I googled these and here is what I found, pretty shocking...
Instead of “Googling things” that Jews supposed to be teaching about non-Jews, Christians, Muslims, and other people, and directing our attention to the garbage on www.missionislam page for revelation in truth about Judaism (which in its turn directs us to the “sources” found on www.revisionisthistory, of all places!), the right thing for you to do (if you are sincerely interested in the subject) would be to go to a good library and find a good book or two on Judaism written by a knowledgeable and universally respected authority on the subject. In the library, you might also have a possibility to peruse through numerous volumes of Talmud to get an idea of what it is.
“The guy” in the videos is a manipulator of the facts and a fabricator.
Please do not use this forum to post links directing us to sites specially designed to provoke hatred, be it against Jews, Muslims, Christians, or anybody else.
If you have a problem with my posts then don't read them. And don't accuse me of 'linking sites that provoke hatred'
Unfortunately I don't have a copy of Talmud at home. This was the first site that come up when googling. Maybe it is untrue, I don't know. Good point about checking with the library. Thanks.
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