Group reading of The Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin, in November 2012

If you'd like to join a group reading of this book, let us know here! November 2012 is our target date

I am in! Karen, aka maggie1944;
Mark, aka msf59;
Mamie, aka Crazymamie;
Jim, aka drneutron
Joe, aka jnwelch
Roberta, aka luvamystery65
Darryl, aka kidzdoc
Roni, aka ronincats
James, aka magicians_nephew
Britt, aka Britt84
Ellen, aka ebt1002
Lynda, aka Carmenere
Rachel, aka The Hibernator
Mamamuffy
Terri, aka tymfos
JudiY, aka JudyY
Pat, aka Phebj
Roland, aka rolandperkins
Bonnie, aka Brenzi
Mary Beth, aka mmigmano11

edited on Thursday, October 25th! I will be starting a book discussion thread, maybe later today.

Mark is in attendance. I'm glad Karen suggested the G.R. because I may have dragged my feet forever on this one, despite the fact it's on my WL and I love the Civil War era. Maybe it was just the mammoth size of the book, that had me spooked.

yup, I've had it on my Kindle for a long time, too, and am glad to have company to read it

And I didn't call you Maggie either! That should count for something!

Mamie is also in attendance. What Mark said pretty much covers me, too. Except it's not on my WL - I have a copy, I have just not read it yet.

May I join your group? Still trying to navigate LT. This sounds like a good read for a group. I am Roberta BTW. :)

Can I join in? I've owned the hardback edition for several years but haven't opened it yet.

Darryl (kidzdoc)

yes, of course, Roberta, and Darryl, all are welcome.

We'll start a discussion thread later, in November, and then we can think about all going to see the movie on the same day, in our various locations. What do you think?

count me in

OK! Roni (ronincats) is here, too!

Joe's in attendance, too. Another foot-dragger here, grateful for the inspiration to read what sounds like a great book. Thanks, Karen!

Yes, I'm on-board. Since the physical copy of the book has been sitting here for a couple of years, it's about time something motivated me!

I'd like to join too... I haven't any group reads planned yet for November, so, first come first serve I guess... :)

This is going to be great!!!

Thread starred. Now I have to get a copy of the book for November. :-)

Woo hoo, Ellen is in the house!

Count me in! I just zoomed here after I saw mention of this GR on Mark's thread. The book's been screaming at me from my bookshelf for a few years and this looks like the perfect time to finally get it to pipe down.

Welcome, Lynda. We are happy to help that book stop screaming at you!

What kinds of refreshments will you all be bringing to the party?

Hmm...in hotter than heck Houston November brings those frigid 60 degree cold fronts. Ha ha! So of course we bring out our sweaters and the hot drinks. Let's start with some mulled wine and cider. My treat! I'll think of something else and get back to ya.

This is Daniel Day Lewis transformed into President Lincoln for Spielberg's upcoming film "Lincoln", based on Team of Rivals. Pretty freakin' awesome!

Here is the EW article: http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/08/07/first-look-daniel-day-lewis-lincoln/?xid=e...

Hey, the response over here has been great! LTers Rule!

Wow! Amazing! Thanks for posting the pic, Mark.

And thanks for the link to the article. It was interesting and now I am really pumped to read this book before I see the movie. Goodwin is such a good writer, and it sounds like the movie will do her work justice. I sure hope so.

Note that they always seem to cast Lincoln as a baritone (Sam Waterston, Henry Fonda) despite many many many recollections of the man's voice being a high drawling tenor.

Of course a high voice carries better in a crowd when you are making a speech without amplification.

I'd already seen some pictures of Daniel Day Lewis as Lincoln before, he looks really good... I also still want to see the Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter movie. I mean, that one just really intrigues me... 8/

bumping this up in case there are more folks interested in joining us; don't want to lose our thread

I am going to try and join you guys in reading this book. It has been on my list of a long time.

This should be fun - looking forward to joining you.

Karen I hope you feel better today. I saw on your 75 thread but posted here to bump this up. Can't wait to read this book.

Thanks for bumping this up. hand still hurts pretty bad

Oh! I think I can join in! My reading schedule should have cleared up by November. :)

34> Yeah, right. We've all heard that before! But I'm glad you'll be joining us.

Bump

Are there some others who would like to join us (in November!)

I'm just peeking in to star this, so I can pop in and comment when the GR starts. I've already read the book and you guys are all in for a treat! :-)

Yay!

#37 ditto - one of my very favorite books from 2011

Oooo, I'm getting tingles of anticipation!

(-:

I think it's hilarious that our thread has over 40 posts and none of us has even cracked the book yet!

Ah.... November is still a ways away.. I'm going to Hawaii in November (with the book) and I still am counting on a few more weeks to save up my vacation spending money!

Plus, my elderly memory being what it is, if I read it now, I might forget it by then! (-;

I may do this group read. November, you say? Hmmm. . .

OK, welcome Terri! I am adding your name and ignoring the tentativeness of your posting. "may" indeed. Yes. We would love to have you join us!

Fifteen people! Whoo hop! This is great.

ignoring the tentativeness of your posting. "may indeed"

OK, I'm in! Supposedly, the county library has two copies, and they are both marked "available" at this time, so I should be able to get my hands on one of them.

Great good news!

"I claim not to have controlled events, but confess plainly that events have controlled me,"

A. Lincoln.

David Hubert Donald claims this is the key to Lincoln's character and actions.

DKG, I think disagrees.

Bump bump bump bumpily bump bump...

just wondering if there are any more folks interested in a group read?

Karen I think as the movie gets closer and the ad campaign goes in full force you may garner more interest. The library has 6 books available but I reserved one for late October because I think there will be a mad rush to read the book right before the movie comes out. I can't wait!

I'm looking forward to it, also. I'm not really "advertising", just bumping it up in case someone missed it from before.

I'm looking forward to it, too. I think this is one I'll put on the Kindle, rather than hauling the big volume around.

I've got it on CD form from the library.

I'd like to join you for the movie at least. Didn't know there was one coming out! I've read this twice - it's one of the better books on the subject I've ever read. And I'll be quite interested in the discussion. Hope this is OK - I'm JudiY, here.

Yes, you would be very welcome to join us!

Thank you! I'm looking forward to both the movie and the discussion.

Bump! ;)

Karen, please add me to the list of group readers. I've been meaning to read this book forever and had no idea there was a movie coming out based on it!

Pat

Pat, I'm delighted to add you to the list. Welcome! November is coming.

Haven't been in a Group Read before, but, for good old Kearns Goodwin, please count me in.

Delighted!

The New York Times reviewed a new book about Seward, Lincoln's canny Secretary of State.

His handling of the "Trent" affair is discussed in the Kearns Goodwin book.

I'm really going to try to do this as I've wanted to read this chunks ther for a long, long time.

You are very welcome to join in! But only, of course, if you bring your darling dog along, too. What a cutie!

This is quite a build-up to a group read.... :-)

Yes, it is exciting, but somehow I must finish all my October books, first. Awk!

On topic ( I hope ) was a recent PBS "American Experience" special called "Death and the Civil War".

It was based on an amazing book called The Republic of Suffering and for me it was an eye opener.

Did you know there were no "dog tags" in the Civil War? No Graves Registration units. No National Cemeteries at all.
No national effort to inform families of deaths in combat. Nothing like that

People died and were left on the battlefield to rot. Or be eaten by wild pigs (Fact!)

The Civil War changed death from an event usually at home, with plenty of notice surrounded by loved ones to an event taken place alone in shock and shell sometimes hundreds and thousands of miles from home.

This was the war that Lincoln and his Team of Rivals were faced with.

What is even more amazing about the book Republic of Suffering is that is written by a woman historian who is now President of Harvard.

and while on the woman theme. The National Cemeteries and the Graves Registration units were all founded by Clara Barton. Most people know about her work as a nurse in establishing hospitals and getting better care for the wounded, but they don't know about her post-war work. About 15 years ago I visited Andersonville National Historic Site which is also the National Center for Prisoners of War. They did an great job of telling about Clara Barton and her work at Andersonville. She came in there after the war and started a systematic way to dig up the graves and identify the dead. She eventually mapped the entire Andersonville cemetery and notified the next of kin. Many of the organizational ways of dealing with identifying war dead came from her experiences while at Andersonville and then subsequently other Civil War battlefields. If the work of Clara Barton and what happened at Andersonville is of interest you might want to read MacKinlay Kantor's Andersonville.

Those American Experience pieces are eye opener's. I watched the American Masters piece on Carl Sandburg and really liked it. Makes me wonder what Congress is thinking when they talk of pulling the plug on PBS.

Incidentally, the area of South West and Central Georgia where Andersonville is located has lots of historical things to see and do. Andersonville, Plains GA., FDR's Little White House at Warm Springs, are all National Historic Sites, and they are starting to restore the spas in and around Warm Springs. Also Calaway Gardens is there, and they have a magnificent butterfly house along with the wonderful gardens.

bump bumpitty bump bump

November 1 approaches

I have a question: I began reading Team of Rivals on my first generation Kindle and the graphics are impossible to see well. Should I go buy a "dead tree" copy? Are there lots of graphics? Maps? Photographs? What would I be missing if I stuck with the Kindle?

I will be near a bookstore (B&N) several times this weekend, so I hope to decide soon....

I've learned to get a book like this from the library first, or else download a sample if one's available, then decide whether to buy the book or the eBook. I have the same problem - can't really see charts and maps on an eReader, which is a shame. Some of them are formatted so you can enlarge the graphics, but not all. Sadly, my eReader is mostly for novels, and my bookshelves keep getting more crowded.

Karen there are five maps and diagrams in TOR. There are photos galore. So the question is do you want to buy or borrow the book for the five maps? You could get away with borrowing the book and copying the maps or you could treat yourself to the book.

I went ahead and bought it. I'll probably pass it on to my nephew down the road.

Have a lovely weekend and hugs to Greta and Nicky.

Woof woof woof = thanks for the hugs

I'm pretty sure I'll do my usual "I have all the money in the world" (untrue) and buy it.

I'm Kindling it, too, thinking that would be better than hauling a doorstop-size book around. I can read the maps and diagrams, but I bet I won't be seeing the photos galore that Roberta mentions. Hmm. I may have to figure out a way to at least peruse a paper copy.

Joe just stop at a bookstore and take a peek at the photos. I think that will satisfy your curiosity. Very nice but not reason alone to buy the book if you will be doing your reading on Kindle. I succumbed and bought the book with the intention of passing it along to my nephew who enjoys history and teaches it at middle school level.

OK, thanks, Roberta. Sounds like a plan. I'll do it.

One where I think you're really better off reading the paper copy is Lost in Shangri-La. I loved the way they integrated the photos into the text, so that as you're reading about someone or some event, you have a photo in the text showing the person or something related to the event. I wish more nonfiction tried that.

I'm hoping to be able to snag a copy of the book from the county library to use for the group read. The online catalog is showing that they have two copies available. That eliminates having to worry about buying. I just can't buy any more books now.

I did go buy a paper copy. I love looking at the photographs as I read, and I do revisit them. But I agree that a good look in a bookstore may satisfy many of us. And it is a heavy book. I'll probably rue the day....

And with my bad eyes, I really need the maps so I can see them with my magnifier glass.

OK. I have had a full day, and now it is time to sit back, read, and feed the dogs so they'll shush!

Yay for buying a paper copy!
I have it on hold at the liberry, but if I see a copy for sale, I might just shell out the cash.

I generally end up buying or borrowing from the library if the work is non-fiction. I find that generally maps, photographs, etc. don't work very well on my e-reader. That may not be true on later iterations of e-readers or the iPad, but it is true on the machine I have. Like somebody else above, I purchased a copy of the book and will pass it one when I am done with it.

When I "read" this book last year, it was an audio book, so I could not see any of the maps or photos. I'm sure I would have enjoyed them, but I don't recall feeling as though something was missing by not having them. The text in this book does not need anything to prop it up.

I'm also imagining post-its sticking out of my book as I go...

>83 Actually, that'll be the hard part for me, Karen. I'm not good at highlighting on the Kindle, so it's not going to be easy to keep track of my favorite parts.

I know what you mean. I've not conquered the highlighting challenge, either. I need to take it in to B&N some quiet day and get one of their people to show me what I'm doing wrong.

I've actually conquered the highlighting but have not found a good way (other than on paper) of locating my highlighted passages on the iPad either with iBooks or the Kindle app. I'm still wavering between library (I know it'll be a hardcover, so big and heavy), an electronic version, or buying a paperback copy ( used on AMP for $4+$4 shipping). I love maps so that's a big consideration. I think I'll go get one out of the library and see how big and heavy it is and then make a decision. I'm just thinking out loud here LOL.

I was laughing at myself yesterday when I realized I was planning on going to the B&N to talk about the Kindle! B&N will help me with my Nook, not my Kindle. I don't know where I could go have a Face-to-Face encounter with a Kindle expert.

Nevertheless, I've got my book. Now maybe I'll go buy some new post-its.

I bought the book today as the wait list from the library was quite long. I have my post-it's ready as well. As soon as I finish 1Q84 I will read it.

I saw the trailer for the movie "Lincoln" last night on PBS. It looks quite good, but I was unable to tell if the story in the movie is the same as the story in Team of Rivals. I don't think it is, but will probably go see the movie anyway. The trailer said the movie was to be released on November 23.

>69. Did you know there were no "dog tags" in the Civil War? No Graves Registration units. No National Cemeteries at all.
No national effort to inform families of deaths in combat. Nothing like that

People died and were left on the battlefield to rot. Or be eaten by wild pigs (Fact!)

With all due respect, you are misinformed. I have many, many Civil War vets in my own family who are buried in Civil War era national cemeteries. There's an excellent website created by the National Park Service, U.S. Dept. of the Interior (our tax dollars at work) where you can learn about these Civil War national cemeteries.

The website is here.

I imagine both could be true. Some soldiers were in fact buried in cemeteries, and others were, sadly, not given a "decent burial". These kinds of controversies are hard to settle.

OK, folks, shall we start a new thread for those who have begun to read? I don't imagine we need a caution against spoilers, we all know how the story turns out, right?

I haven't started reading the book yet. I won't until November 1st. I still have to finish the last book for a group read.

>90. These kinds of controversies are hard to settle.

Um, there's nothing "controversial" about the fact that the statement "No National Cemeteries at all" is incorrect. My second great grand uncle died fighting on the Union side. His body was buried at Chalmette National Cemetery in Chalmette, Louisiana. I rather resent the implication that his body was left either to rot on the battlefield or eaten by wild hogs--or that somehow what happened to his remains is a controversy difficult to settle.

"After the capture of New Orleans by Union forces in May 1862, the site became a refugee camp for freed slaves and later a burial ground for former slaves, black hospital patients, and both Union and Confederate troops. The city of New Orleans, which owned the property, donated the land in May 1864 to the Federal Government for use as a national cemetery."

Becky, I certainly did not mean to imply I knew anything about any one soldier's remains. Of course you would resent it if someone just said such a tragic thing might have happened to your second great grand uncle. And I am sorry that you were upset.

I meant that controversies which tend to generalize with words such as "everyone, or all, or no one, or none" are usually difficult to settle because there is insufficient evidence to support such broad generalities, which you yourself have demonstrated. And I thank you for being willing to step up and let us all know what you have learned about your ancestor.

Some controversies are not hard to settle in the Wikipedia age. Chalmette National Cemetery was established in 1864 and was a cemetery for Union soldiers at first. I was unable to ascertain if any Confederate soldiers are buried there.

Gettysburg National Cemetery was established in 1863 and was only for Union dead. It was a state -owned, that state being Pennsylvania, cemetery. The National Cemetery system as we know it today as not established until after the Civil War was over. There is a good discussion of this in Drew Gilpin Faust's book This Republic of Suffering. It was during the Civil War that many of our "battlefield" traditions were started and that is what Ms. Faust's book is all about. Perhaps we should do a group read of it?

It should also be noted that neither army in the Civil War had ambulances, doctors, nurses, or any kind of systematic evacuation of wounded from a battlefield plan. The first army to do that was Napoleon's.

Hey...wait for me...puffpuffpuff! Whoo, I thought you were going to leave me behind for a minute there! I would love to join this group if I may? One of my favorite, favorite, did I mention favorite books of all time is American Gothic (I don't know if it was mentioned above. I have to go back and read all the posts), which, for those of you who don't know, is about Lincoln's assassination, but goes into great depth regarding Booth and his associates, his family, Lincoln's family, the feelings of the American people at the time, all the surrounding details of the era. I think I will enjoy this also, for many reasons, not the least of which is the pleasure of sharing it with my LT friends!

Karen a new thread for discussing the book is a great idea. Please post the link when you get started. This group read is such a wonderful idea.

Looking forward to the new thread but I won't officially begin the book till Nov 1st. Still caught up in my Halloween reads.

Wow, Mary Beth, you have made the group 20! Woo Hoo! Roberta, I'll try to get to it today, but no hurry on posting in it. Early birds only. Lynda, I have only read the first dozen or so pages. Don't feel rushed. But it is a long book and I need all the time I can carve out.

I agree this is going to be cool.

HERE IS A LINK TO THE BOOK DISCUSSION THREAD: http://www.librarything.com/topic/143910

#95 But there WERE doctors and nurses near the battlefields during the Civil War. It was as a result of women serving as nurses to soldiers during the war that it became socially acceptable for women to work as nurses generally. The Napoleonic Wars pre-date the Civil War by 50 years.

>94. Maggie, I think my comments hurt your feelings, and for that I'm very sorry. I hope you will forgive me. I was trying to make a point, and it was inartfully made.

>101. Good point about nurses near the battlefields. There's a fascinating website about Clara Barton and the work she did during the Civil War. Something I didn't know is that she established a Missing Soldiers Office. This is a great website.

Also mentioning Clara Barton and others while examining the different roles played by women is Yankee Women: Gender Battles in the Civil War by Elizabeth Leonard.

>102. Becky, my feeling were not hurt. I was just sincerely horrified if you felt we had disrespected your ancestor. I hope we can all just say what is on our minds, and if things are misunderstood, we can try to clarify. No worries.

In case it was missed, here's the link to the book (and other related stuff) discussion page: http://www.librarything.com/topic/143910

I should have said that at the beginning of the Civil War that neither army in the Civil War had ambulances, doctors, nurses, or any kind of systematic plan for the evacuation of wounded from a battlefield. Again, Drew Gilpin Faust's book explains that the public was so horrified by what they saw in the photographs and the casualty lists coming out each week that nobody was outraged when Clara Barton started her nurses corps. The military medical branches were all started during the war as a result of public outrage. Because these procedures and policies were new they were inefficient and nothing like what we think of today. Because we can't conceive of this kind of conduct of war shows how much we have come to expect from our military in this regard. Prior to the Civil War it was the job of the civilians who lived there to take care of things like burying the dead, and caring for the wounded. There were no mobile field hospitals until a couple of years into the war. (Chickamuga was fought in September 1863, and there were no field hospitals there. The armies simply confiscated houses, barns, and sheds as amputation factories.) I remember reading someplace that it took the citizens of Gettysburg three weeks to burn all the dead horses and mules from that one battle, and they were still burying and reburying dead when the cemetery was dedicated. The army didn't do any of the burning or the burying. All of this is the reason why Dr. Faust wrote her book. It is just too hard for us, from our perspective in time, to think of fighting a war on that scale with none of these procedures and agencies in place.

The first army to systematically evacuate wounded from the field was Napoleon's. By that I mean, that the army had a plan. They didn't depend on civilians to do it for them when the army moved on. Napoleon felt that since these men were willing to give their life for France that France owed them something. The British made fun of Napoleon for doing so during the Peninsular War and said that it proved that the French soldiers were "soft." The first time the British army had any kind of medical care was in the Crimean War. This war was fought from 1853 to 1856. The majority of casualties in this war were from disease, and this outraged the British public. That is what motivated Florence Nightingale. Nightingale did not start out being a battlefield nurse. She started out as a hospital nurse in Sevastopol. Clara Barton took her methods directly from Florence Nightingale. Barton was not a battlefield nurse until late in the war. She started out as a hospital nurse in Washington, D. C. And Washington, D. C. was a whole days ride from most of the major battles in Northern Virginia.

Distance has been compressed in today's world. Today Franklin, Tennessee is a suburb of Nashville. It is twenty miles from Nashville and thousands of people drive into Nashville to work. In November 1864 it was a whole days ride from Franklin to Nashville. A horse can travel about 20 - 30 miles a day. Traveling more than that in one day and then doing it again another day, and the day after that for a week, will kill a horse. Twenty miles a day on horseback is a good days travel in 1860. The battle of Franklin is one of the high casualty battles of the war. All wounded had to be transported to hospitals in the cities. Can you imagine being wounded and riding in a wagon for twenty miles?

Okay, I picked up both an audio copy (a very handy Playaway!) and the print book of Team of Rivals. So I am armed and ready for the Group Read. Yah! I visited the library in the town where I work and they had both on shelf. How cool is that? I thought with the film coming out soon, that there would be more interest in the book. There I go, thinking again. I should be able to start the audio tomorrow, to help me get a little head-start.

For fans of TIOLI, the new November thread is up http://www.librarything.com/topic/143952 and I've placed Team of Rivals into Challenge #10: Read a Book with a Average LT Rating of 4.00 to 4.50. ToR has a LT rating of 4.44.

bump bump bummity bump bump

There is a thread dedicated to those reading the book. here's a link (but since I copied it from above, you'll need to copy and paste it into your address bar): http://www.librarything.com/topic/143910

Join us in tracking our progress, and commenting as we go

I've got the book discussion thread starred, but I won't be there for a while. Hurricane Sandy has disrupted our inter-library loan process, along with so many other much more important problems that it's caused for many people.

I think I'll be getting my copy a little late.

I am sorry. I know you are right that this is a minor inconvenience nonetheless too bad to not be able to read it right now. The thread will be there when you are reading to tell us your thoughts.

Bumping this up

How is everyone doing? Too busy reading to post any questions or comments?

I do apologize as I fell off my schedule due to my little dog Nicky's death. I have been kind of a mess, but I did get 3 pages read last night, and I think I can get back on schedule. Am leaving for Hawaii on Sunday and plan to take the book with me and definitely do a good deal of reading under the palm trees.

What are your plans or progress?

So sorry to read of your loss, Karen. Hopefully, reading and vacation will ease the loss of Nicky a little but it will be difficult, for sure.

I've fallen behind as well because of the RL stuff but I"m solidly in Chapter 4 and progressing a little everyday. I'm hoping for a jammie day when I can dedicate an entire day to reading.

I have gotten as far as page 75. I had to finish reading a book for my book discussion group first. I am now back on track and devoting most of my reading time to this book. I'll be on with comments soon. Actually, this group read has been the most active of all of the group reads that I have participated in, as far as the number of posts to the thread is concerned. I like all the activity.

I'm confused about why we have two active threads for this group read. Where should we be posting our comments--here or on the other thread? Or on both?

I think the discussion thread is for posting comments and this one was the first one set up to discuss who had the book, who was interested etc.

Yes, this was to start talking about having a group read, and who was reading it now, and who had a book, or audio, etc.

The discussion of the book, after people have started reading it, is here: http://www.librarything.com/topic/143910

Aw, Karen, so sorry to hear about Nicky's death, that's so sad! I hope you'll still be able to enjoy your vacation...

Thanks, Britt. The people I'll be with in Hawaii were great Nicky fans too so we'll do fine. Thanks.

And I have started dipping back into the book, so I'm looking forward to that, too.

I still haven't got hold of the copy I'd hoped to read. The library is closed until Tuesday due to Veterans' Day. Maybe it will arrive then . . .

I finally got hold of the book. I'll be joining you over on the discussion thread after I've had a chance to read some of it . . .