Advice re: lateral move

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Advice re: lateral move

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1artgirl64
Jul 26, 2013, 11:20 am

Hello folks. For a little over a year, I've been working in an academic library in circulation, as a library aide/tech. I'm in a rather odd position. There isn't much to do here and I'm underutilized and underemployed. I've asked for additional duties, made suggestions on projects, etc., only to be told "no" (and not for very good reasons, IMHO).
A newly created lateral position has just opened up. It will not pay any more than I make now, but it will give me an opportunity to actually *do* something at work and possibly gain some valuable experience (I may be pursuing my MLS in the near future).

I think I would really like this job. I applied for it and was told they are setting up interviews for next week.
I've been looking over some links about library interviews, questions, etc. and I found most of them to be "too much" for a library tech position.

Any advice on the internal interview and questions they may ask me, or I should ask them? Or on lateral moves in general?

I'd be grateful for the help. I'm a bit worried about this since I don't have a lot of library experience and my experience thus far has not enabled me to really have accomplishments to brag about. (BTW I am not really young. This is my third career).

2rockinrhombus
Jul 26, 2013, 5:07 pm

Can you give us some ideas of the job description?

3amysisson
Jul 26, 2013, 5:11 pm

I want to give you brilliant advice but don't have anything but simple advice..... It seems to me that your reasons for applying are very legitimate and show your good qualities as an employee. I would definitely not emphasize the being told "no" and the reasons, since that sounds negative, but instead talk about how you view the lateral move as an opportunity to learn and expand your library skills since it will encompass new duties.

Ditto rockinrhombus that job description or actual duties would be useful for us to see.

4RowanTribe
Edited: Jul 29, 2013, 11:01 am

Focus on the library as an organization and how you will benefit the organization if you get the job. (Without stating outright that you aren't contributing at the moment, of course.)

You may also want to check with non-hiring departments to see what the organization feels about having MLS people coming up through the ranks. Some places are really happy to hire techs and then have them become accredited librarians, and some are very much not. You don't want to bring this up if it will hurt you, but you DO want to bring it up if it seems like something your organization encourages.

Presuming you are older and have done things in your other careers, don't be shy about reaching back to past careers and jobs (even volunteer or parenting duties) to illustrate what you've accomplished that shows what a valuable employee you are.

Example pulled out my ear:

"Artgirl, tell us about your organizational skills on the job."

Bad Answer: "Well, I don't really organize anything in my current position, but I'd love to start!"

Better Answer: "Well, you know that {my boss} takes care of most of our organization, but I have always been very organized myself. When I was the head of the PTA, I organized and controlled the finances, and also developed a workable organizational structure for meetings and responsibilities."

5mamzel
Jul 27, 2013, 5:25 pm

A question I was asked at a recent interview was what it means to be a team member. That would be a good way to insert how you want to be able to do more by helping others.

6rockinrhombus
Jul 28, 2013, 2:49 pm

And I highly recommend 60 Seconds and You're Hired to get a 1 minute spiel to sell yourself.

7artgirl64
Edited: Jul 31, 2013, 12:52 pm

Thank you all for your help and suggestions!
Edit: Here is the job description, although it entails more (see below).
Joe College University invites applicants for a full-time Library technician in the John Q. Smith Memorial Library, a progressive and active supporter of student learning which has a robust electronic resources collection and is in the process of developing an active archives program.

The successful candidate is responsible for providing customer service in the University Archives, assisting with the arrangement and description of the University Archives and maintaining access to the library's electronic resource collections. The ideal candidate will have prior experience with the Microsoft Office Suite, including Excel and Access, troubleshooting computer problems, customer service, data entry, working independently and with a group, Serials Solutions, Archon, and archives research.

I discussed the position informally w/the two librarians with whom I'd be working. Half the day would be spent working electronic serials: making sure all the links were working, that no huge changes took place overnight w/o the vendor telling us (which I understand happens a lot!), answering calls from students in case s/thing is not functioning, dealing with some invoices. The other half would be in the college's archives. The archives will soon be open to the public, and are undergoing a lot of changes. Items that were moldering away (literally) in storage for years are now being cataloged, restored, indexed, etc. I would be working with boxes of photos and documents, and helping people who come in to do research. There's also the possibility of an archives blog, and I have a lot of professional writing experience.

I should add that I don't have experience "troubleshooting computer problems." One of the other library techs and I both suggested that we have training in basics, in this area. The boss said "no, we don't want to step on IT's toes" and "we really don't want to start accepting other duties."

Regarding the poster who asked about former techs coming up thru the ranks with an MLS: to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever done that here. There are techs who have been here 35 years (no, I am not kidding).

8amysisson
Jul 31, 2013, 1:43 pm

Since the archives are a new thing for your library, you could emphasize how excited you are about that new area. You know, if you feel they're looking for you to justify why you want to, or are willing to, make a lateral move.

9rockinrhombus
Jul 31, 2013, 3:33 pm

Troubleshooting involves a lot of googling and trial and error. It can also be simply guiding someone through a process a few times. They can't expect you to mend files or maintain the network, right?

It seems to be "I know it when I see it" kind of things, in my opinion.

10artgirl64
Jul 31, 2013, 3:52 pm

Right!
I don't think that anything in the job description is beyond my capabilities. Both librarians seemed very willing to work with me in terms of helping me gain valuable experience for any future library work, as well.
I guess I'm just kind of keyed up about the interview. I'm kind of a nervous person, to be honest.

11rockinrhombus
Jul 31, 2013, 4:08 pm

I understand completely. It sounds like a great position.

12artgirl64
Aug 1, 2013, 12:11 pm

I have a better job description. What I am wondering is, how dull, cut and dried does all this work sound? And is it *really* going to be considered "pro experience" when I go for my MLS and subsequent "real librarian" positions (hope that phrase is not offensive)!

Assist the Computer Systems/Public Services Librarian with providing reference services for the archives, including staffing the archives reference desk, responding to distance reference requests, and creating documents or resources to assist in the provision of reference services, so that users can access documents in the archives.

· Assist the Computer Systems/Public Services Librarian with processing new additions to the collection, and arranging and describing the collection, including creating and maintaining the archives finding aid and library catalog and appropriately housing and describing archives materials so that the collection is accessible to users.

· Assist the Computer Systems/Public Services Librarian with collection management for the Archives, including digitizing and rehousing documents, climate monitoring, and gathering statistics so that the collection is well organized, secure, and in a useable condition.

· Other duties as assigned.

Electronic Resources

· Assist the Electronic Resources/Serials Librarian with maintaining administrative information on electronic resources in electronic files and in Serials Solutions to track cost, vendor contacts, holdings, and subscription periods so that files are well-organized and descriptive records of library purchases and holdings.

· Assist the Electronic Resources/Serials Librarian with testing access to electronic resources and work with vendors to resolve any noted access problems so that students and faculty can access electronic materials.

· Write purchase requisitions for new acquisitions and renewals and work with Purchasing and Accounts Payable staff to ensure that all vendors are paid completely and on time.

· Assist the Electronic Resources/Serials Librarian with gathering usage statistics so librarians can analyze usage of electronic collections and use the findings to make purchase and collection development decisions.

13lilithcat
Aug 1, 2013, 12:37 pm

> 12

how dull, cut and dried does all this work sound?

I am not a librarian, nor do I play one on TV. However, I can say that most job descriptions, particularly for institutional jobs (be they academic, government, or corporate), are written by the human resources department to fit certain objective criteria, and they rarely make the work sound exciting.

14tardis
Aug 1, 2013, 1:01 pm

artgirl64, I'm a licensing librarian, and do a lot of the stuf on the Electronic Resources side of what you've posted above. I think you will find plenty of variety and challenges in that job description.

As far as being considered for professional experience, I would say yes to that as well. When I look at a new librarian's work record, what they've done in a para-professional career absolutely counts, if only because it means they understand a lot of the underpinnings of what we do better than someone who hasn't previously worked in a library.

15artgirl64
Aug 1, 2013, 1:36 pm

Thank you! Since I have limited library experience, it's hard for me to know what employers will value, both now and in the future.

16amysisson
Aug 1, 2013, 1:44 pm

I would offer a caveat, though -- a lot of librarian job descriptions that require experience will specifically say something like "1-2 years of post-degree professional experience". Many won't count professional-level work done while technically in a paraprofessional position, or even work done in a professional position if the degree is not there yet. Which I think is stupid.

17RowanTribe
Aug 1, 2013, 1:55 pm

I agree with tardis on the experience. Any work in a library is beneficial to mention on your application to attend school, regardless of what position it actually is. Schools are very happy to have experienced library staffers because they will have a more realistic view of the job environment and work requirements than people just coming in from an undergraduate degree. They're often more dedicated to the profession as well, and more capable of easily handling the workload and finishing either on time or ahead of time, all of which makes the school look good.

However, if there is a requirement for "professional experience" you might want to check with your state library and see what their specific requirements are. I have not seen any school that require "professional experience" as part of an application, but it may be different in your area.

In a lot of places, there are specific jobs and job descriptions that count as "professional" in a legal sense, for purposes of certification, training, and system-wide state/federal assistance. In my experience, however, those requirements only matter AFTER you've gotten your MLIS/MLS degree, and even then, really it only matters if your state has a different pay scale or seniority benefit packages for "regular" librarians and for professionally certified librarians.

For example, I have my MLIS (got it in March) and if I were working as a Circulation Clerk or a Shelving Page, I would still be a "librarian," but I wouldn't be getting any credit hours towards becoming a "professional librarian." Those jobs don't count in my county and state as "professional librarian positions" for purposes of my own pay and seniority in the system, and for my employer counting me as a "real librarian" :) for purposes of getting state or federal aid. I have to work in a particular "professional" area to count my work towards an eventual professional certification in a few years.

Again tho, that should really only matter AFTER you've gotten your degree, and only if your state has a professional librarian certification and treats professional and "regular" librarians differently.

18artgirl64
Aug 1, 2013, 1:56 pm

I agree--stupid.
I guess I'm more concerned about being able to find a librarian job in the first place, post-degree. I have heard (and know of, personally) a few lib school grads who can't find positions at all because they don't have any experience. Or some just have experience they gained while working at the college where they got their degree.
I want to make sure I'm making smart choices. I'm too old to screw up (read: spend money on a degree and then not find a job).

19RowanTribe
Aug 1, 2013, 2:02 pm

More to the point of the job in question, I have NEVER seen a para-professional position that required "professional experience" because that's sort of a contradiction in terms.

Is the posted job listed as requiring an MLS degree? If not, then they can't really expect anyone to list real actual professional librarian experience, because non-degreed people can't have professional experience - that's the whole point!

(Whether or not it's a good point is questionable - I'm with Amy above in finding that para-professionals in tacitly professional positions do as good or better work than actual professionals, and I find it insulting that it doesn't count as such.)

20RowanTribe
Aug 1, 2013, 2:07 pm

In response to post 18 - I'll also say that while "officially" paraprofessional work will not count, having the work history on your resume from before you even attended school will count in your favor as being experienced and passionate about library work.

Also, every job you hold in every system is a networking opportunity, whether you're a professional or not. Everyone knows everyone, and if you've done good work, you can ask people for recommendations and to put in a good word for you.

Bottom line: regardless of whether it "officially" counts as professional experience, work experience inside actual library systems is going to help you out.

And now I have to get back to my own work.... :)

21artgirl64
Aug 1, 2013, 2:12 pm

#19--No, the job just requires a high school diploma or a GED.
I'm making reference to info I got on another library board. When I had asked, last year, about whether or not my circulation desk experience would be helpful in my finding a librarian job, post-MLS, the answer was "not really. You need to have more 'professional-type duties.'" So that's why I'm concerned about the nature of the work in this lateral position.
#20--good points! Thank you.

22DanieXJ
Aug 1, 2013, 3:19 pm

>21 artgirl64: Yep. After you get an MLIS for the most part everyone wants you to have 1, 2 or 3 years of professional experience to get the job they've listed. Although no one will take the leap to get you that experience... :)

On the other hand, it's not like that sort of thing (every job listing wanting you to have 2 or 3 years experience while no one will give you that experience) isn't restricted to the Library profession either.

I've also found that in a whole lot of libraries the line between the 'paraprofessional duties' and 'professional duties' is a very, very, very thin one... I guess that's life versus print.

23artgirl64
Aug 2, 2013, 10:14 pm

I've looked over the job description again. Call it cold feet, but now I'm really not sure about some of the aspects of the job.
I have done clerical-type work in the past, routine stuff like invoicing, data entry, etc.--and I hated it.
I showed the description to a (non-librarian) friend and she felt I would be totally bored in this position. And not only that, I'd lose the "status" I had by being a circulation, front-desk person who is responsible for opening and closing the library.
I feel very uncertain as to how to determine just how bored I'd be. Or just how much I'd like the job. I really feel shaky now.
As for the "status" thing, what's your opinion?
Sorry for going on and on about this...it's been a pretty bad day for me.

24RowanTribe
Aug 5, 2013, 1:18 pm

I can only speak for the library systems I've been in, but in all three of them (all of them county-sized public library systems) circulation staffers had the LEAST "librarian" credit out of just about anyone. In one of the three systems, the children's and YA (young adult) departments were lower on the totem pole, but third from the bottom is still pretty close to the bottom.

There's a big difference between internal librarian perception of important jobs, and external public perception of important jobs. In all of my systems, the public is regarded as the necessary evil that keeps the "real" librarians (reference, acquisitions, cataloging, technical services, IT) in their important jobs inside the system. Even if you are part of the circulation team that closes or opens the library, YOU aren't getting credit for that - your librarian or technical supervisor is getting credit for that.

For your other concern, the only real "data entry" areas I can see are the statistics keeping, and I hate to break it to you, but if you go into the library as a professional, you're going to be keeping stats. It's just part of the job. Everything else seems like dealing with vendors directly - either their technical services departments to resolve issues, or with their marketing/service departments to make sure that their services are meeting your needs.

You'll likely be making contact with specific individuals in each company, and dealing with them by email and phone regularly. If you like working with people via phone or email, and are nice to them, those contacts can be a fun social part of the job.

But yes, you will be likely sitting at a computer all day, looking at logs and forms and excel spreadsheets and working with numbers and data, rather than serving the public directly. Depending on how the office is laid out, and how your job duties go, you may even go most days without seeing anyone other than your direct co-workers.

Some people really like that intimacy and close-knit group feel. Some people need to be out interacting with the public.

25artgirl64
Aug 5, 2013, 4:08 pm

#24, thank you for the honest information/blunt truth.
I had the interview today, and I'm just not sure what I want to do, if the job is offered to me. The archives part sounds very interesting, but the serials part sounds, well, dull. I'm not the best person when it comes to computers--I get frustrated quite easily.
When I learned that many library jobs are a lot like IT jobs these days, it made me pause to reconsider my goal of getting an MLS. I've been kind of on the fence ever since.
I guess I'll need to give the decision more thought. While circulation may indeed be the bottom of the totem pole, I don't want to get myself into something I dislike and then can't get out of.

26artgirl64
Aug 7, 2013, 11:49 am

Update:
I'm pretty sure I don't want this job. I'm very disappointed on a number of levels...but I guess it is better to be realistic about just what library work is.

I'm mulling over writing the "thank you letter." I need to do it today. Some folks on another board have told me not to turn the job down even before it's offered to me, but:
1. I've also read that when it comes to internal moves, don't jerk your coworkers around. If you're not interested, be up front. Be professional.
2. One of the librarians who interviewed me is treating me very differently. As in, won't make eye contact and isn't being as friendly as before the interview. Call me paranoid if you like, but I think it means I will not be offered the job, and she's embarrassed for some reason (she's also very young and this is her first pro job).

Still open to advice/input if you'd like to comment!

27RowanTribe
Aug 8, 2013, 1:18 pm

Please note that #2 may also mean that SHE wanted the job, or had a different applicant in mind and is unhappy that you are being considered.

However, I disagree with the person advising you to reject the job before it's offered. Frankly, it would come off as more than a little presumptuous around here.

Wait and see - you may NOT get offered the position, and if that's the case, then you look good for considering it in the first place, and for being flexible and professional about not getting that job. (They don't know you got cold feet!)

If you DO get offered the job, that's when you can thank them and say that after the interview, you looked more into the day-to-day operations, and you aren't convinced that you would be the best fit for the job. Let them try to convince you - maybe you can take it for a trial period (2-6 months) and see if you do like it/are good at it, and if not you can transfer back to your original job. Maybe they can't manage something like that, but it's at least worth asking.

At least, that is what I would do.

Honestly, it sounds like you really like the customer end of librarian work, and sadly, the people who do the front-line work are most often Clerks or Pages or Technical staffers. I don't know your financial needs, but I can assure you that around here, those jobs do not pay enough for me to recommend them to anyone as a career.