April Group Read - Excerpt from The Everything, by Richard C. Cox
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1LShelby
Our next group read discussion officially opens on April 13th.
We've run out of participating authors with short fiction, (although it's not too late for more authors to join in), so this time we're reading an excerpt from the book The Everything by Richard C. Cox. The author has made the excerpt available free on his website for this group read.
http://www.theeverything.co.uk/page181.html
Richard C. Cox, a relative newcomer to LibraryThing, but an active participant in the Hobnob Group ever since his arrival, introduces his excerpt as follows:
"This Group Read has gone really well so far - two quality stories already - so well, in fact, I reckon we're ready for something a bit more off-the-wall. Although it's been said that fiction writing is the most conservative of all the arts, authors have, from time to time, attempted other ways of going about it, alternatives to the conventional plot/characters/dialogue format I mean. And what you are about to be confronted with next is just a glimpse of these still largely uncharted outer regions of the mind."
(Authors, don't forget that if you want to be eligible to have one of your own works chosen as a Hobnob Group read, you need to participate in the discussion of a previous work.)
We've run out of participating authors with short fiction, (although it's not too late for more authors to join in), so this time we're reading an excerpt from the book The Everything by Richard C. Cox. The author has made the excerpt available free on his website for this group read.
http://www.theeverything.co.uk/page181.html
Richard C. Cox, a relative newcomer to LibraryThing, but an active participant in the Hobnob Group ever since his arrival, introduces his excerpt as follows:
"This Group Read has gone really well so far - two quality stories already - so well, in fact, I reckon we're ready for something a bit more off-the-wall. Although it's been said that fiction writing is the most conservative of all the arts, authors have, from time to time, attempted other ways of going about it, alternatives to the conventional plot/characters/dialogue format I mean. And what you are about to be confronted with next is just a glimpse of these still largely uncharted outer regions of the mind."
(Authors, don't forget that if you want to be eligible to have one of your own works chosen as a Hobnob Group read, you need to participate in the discussion of a previous work.)
3amysisson
I'll be reading shortly after April 13 -- have a few things between now and then. But I'm looking forward to it!
4LShelby
Okay the discussion is officially open. :)
I am going to start by admitting, that I can see why Spaceface kept going on about how different his book was. I have every sympathy for him in trying to explain to people what he's done, because although I myself have had difficulties in "knowing my sub-genre" (a bit of marketing advice recently posted in the Writers-Readers group) at least I can usually say "it's a story" and that it "fits into the speculative fiction genre grouping somewhere". This doesn't even seem to have that much of a genre. Humorous fictionalized non-fiction? Imaginary philosphical memoir?
And I did find myself having a bit of trouble with the switches between the narrative (I guess we can call it "narrative"?) and the quotes, at first. But I think that was mostly just because it was such a different approach and we came into it in the middle, because by the end of the excerpt I wasn't having trouble with it anymore.
The actual content I enjoyed a lot. I chuckled several times over the "structured nonsense" almost wished that there really was such a publication. (I'm sure my husband would want to subscribe, and probably shortly thereafter would be pestering me to help edit his own submission to it.)
I am going to start by admitting, that I can see why Spaceface kept going on about how different his book was. I have every sympathy for him in trying to explain to people what he's done, because although I myself have had difficulties in "knowing my sub-genre" (a bit of marketing advice recently posted in the Writers-Readers group) at least I can usually say "it's a story" and that it "fits into the speculative fiction genre grouping somewhere". This doesn't even seem to have that much of a genre. Humorous fictionalized non-fiction? Imaginary philosphical memoir?
And I did find myself having a bit of trouble with the switches between the narrative (I guess we can call it "narrative"?) and the quotes, at first. But I think that was mostly just because it was such a different approach and we came into it in the middle, because by the end of the excerpt I wasn't having trouble with it anymore.
The actual content I enjoyed a lot. I chuckled several times over the "structured nonsense" almost wished that there really was such a publication. (I'm sure my husband would want to subscribe, and probably shortly thereafter would be pestering me to help edit his own submission to it.)
5elenchus
I enjoyed the blend of humour and serious-ness of it. I found it pleasantly reminiscent of other texts which subvert narrative, whether deliberately or just as a byproduct of the author's musings: WS Burroughs' so-called cut-up techniques, Rudolph Wurlitzer's Nog, Flann O'Brien's Third Policeman, that sort. I find the comic is a way to highlight assumptions, question the premises of thought, and keep it from bogging down in overly serious (ponderous) texts. The "structured nonsense" concept is a great way of doing just that.
6LShelby
Structured nonsense is a lot like how I build worlds as a science-fiction/fantasy worldbuilder, except that I'm doing what I'm doing very seriously, whereas with structured nonsense it's all for the fun of seeing just how crazy you can make it, while still keeping the "structure".
7amysisson
Several thoughts upon reading this:
- I liked the way the end of the excerpt tied back to the beginning.
- I enjoyed a lot of the humor.
- I'm afraid even the excerpt was too long for my personal taste, although I recognize that it's just that -- my personal taste. For me, a little "un-structure" goes a long way, so I can appreciate it as a fresh approach, but the novelty wears off quickly if it isn't supplemented by either by slightly more traditional "story," or language so lovely to read that I no longer care whether there's a story. I feel that way about parenthetical asides too; as a reader they wear on me quickly.
- The Journal reminded me a bit of a fun thing that a small press called Eggplant Literary Productions used to do, and may still be doing, which was a mysterious "library" that visitors could browse and look at excerpts of. So writers would send in submissions consisting of a tiny part of some imaginary book, many of which were, in a way, structure nonsense -- although perhaps Richard would disagree! In any case, it was great fun.
- Reading this also got me reflecting on non-traditional narrative structures. Mark Dunn wrote a lovely epistolary novel called Ella Minnow Pea with a twist -- as individual letters dropped off an island town's statue in the town square, the island's inhabitants were forbidden to use that letter, so their missives to one another had an increasingly diminished alphabet at their disposal. From the time the letter Q fell off in the narrative, the letter Q could no longer be used by the residents, and so it was no longer used in the novel itself. And so on.... Dunn also wrote "Ibid", in which the novel storyline is actually told only in footnotes. I haven't read that one -- and I have to wonder if that novelty would wear off for me -- but I do admire the creativity involved.
- Oh dear, now my mind is hopping about in such an unstructured manner.... :-) Now I'm thinking of a play I read about that was produced in England (I think) a few years ago. It involved two adjoining theaters, and the actors raced back and forth between the two stages while continuing their storyline. So the two sides each saw a completely different play but to the actors it was one uninterrupted play.
- I liked the way the end of the excerpt tied back to the beginning.
- I enjoyed a lot of the humor.
- I'm afraid even the excerpt was too long for my personal taste, although I recognize that it's just that -- my personal taste. For me, a little "un-structure" goes a long way, so I can appreciate it as a fresh approach, but the novelty wears off quickly if it isn't supplemented by either by slightly more traditional "story," or language so lovely to read that I no longer care whether there's a story. I feel that way about parenthetical asides too; as a reader they wear on me quickly.
- The Journal reminded me a bit of a fun thing that a small press called Eggplant Literary Productions used to do, and may still be doing, which was a mysterious "library" that visitors could browse and look at excerpts of. So writers would send in submissions consisting of a tiny part of some imaginary book, many of which were, in a way, structure nonsense -- although perhaps Richard would disagree! In any case, it was great fun.
- Reading this also got me reflecting on non-traditional narrative structures. Mark Dunn wrote a lovely epistolary novel called Ella Minnow Pea with a twist -- as individual letters dropped off an island town's statue in the town square, the island's inhabitants were forbidden to use that letter, so their missives to one another had an increasingly diminished alphabet at their disposal. From the time the letter Q fell off in the narrative, the letter Q could no longer be used by the residents, and so it was no longer used in the novel itself. And so on.... Dunn also wrote "Ibid", in which the novel storyline is actually told only in footnotes. I haven't read that one -- and I have to wonder if that novelty would wear off for me -- but I do admire the creativity involved.
- Oh dear, now my mind is hopping about in such an unstructured manner.... :-) Now I'm thinking of a play I read about that was produced in England (I think) a few years ago. It involved two adjoining theaters, and the actors raced back and forth between the two stages while continuing their storyline. So the two sides each saw a completely different play but to the actors it was one uninterrupted play.
8elenchus
That play sounds fabulous! If you recall the title or playwright, please do post.
I like the conceit of Ella Minnow Pea, hadn't realised that was the premise. Isn't it a children's book?
A favourite short story I read from Asimov's magazine was called "Missing", and you guessed it: was told as a mystery, in which something was missing. The author never said what it was, but reading closely, it was evident a letter was missing. It wasn't until years later I realised there's a literary tradition of sorts in which that's done. Can't recall the term for it, nor even one of the most famous examples, a novel from earlier than I'd have guessed (not 20th century). A fun & creative exercise, but it also wears on me. Better to dip into than read regularly.
I like the conceit of Ella Minnow Pea, hadn't realised that was the premise. Isn't it a children's book?
A favourite short story I read from Asimov's magazine was called "Missing", and you guessed it: was told as a mystery, in which something was missing. The author never said what it was, but reading closely, it was evident a letter was missing. It wasn't until years later I realised there's a literary tradition of sorts in which that's done. Can't recall the term for it, nor even one of the most famous examples, a novel from earlier than I'd have guessed (not 20th century). A fun & creative exercise, but it also wears on me. Better to dip into than read regularly.
9amysisson
>8 elenchus:
So sorry I don't remember anything else about the play. :-( If I'd seen it myself, I'd probably remember something that could lead us to it, but I only read about it.....
Mark Dunn's Ella Minnow Pea is a quite short novel, definitely for adults rather than children. But I think LMNO Peas is a children's book. Ella Minnow Pea is well worth reading -- it's really about censorship, but in a light-hearted way -- and it wisely doesn't go on too terribly long. I wrote a review of it and an unrelated book titled Tepper Isn't Going Out (drawing some parallels) years ago, here: http://www.metroland.net/back_issues/vol_25_no15/books.html
So sorry I don't remember anything else about the play. :-( If I'd seen it myself, I'd probably remember something that could lead us to it, but I only read about it.....
Mark Dunn's Ella Minnow Pea is a quite short novel, definitely for adults rather than children. But I think LMNO Peas is a children's book. Ella Minnow Pea is well worth reading -- it's really about censorship, but in a light-hearted way -- and it wisely doesn't go on too terribly long. I wrote a review of it and an unrelated book titled Tepper Isn't Going Out (drawing some parallels) years ago, here: http://www.metroland.net/back_issues/vol_25_no15/books.html
11NeilRoyMcFarlane
Hi, I'd like to offer a short story for the group to discuss, but I know I need to participate first, so here goes...
Well, this is a difficult one. I read the excerpt, but I found it difficult. It made me feel a bit stupid, even though I'm well educated and rate Joyce, George Eliot, Dickens and Tolstoy as being among my favourite authors.
But I guess this might be because it was an excerpt, so if I'd been reading from the beginning I perhaps would have known what was going on. But I didn't. So it seemed a bit meandering and pointless.
Having said that, the short story I'd like to offer is also absolutely pointless, which I suppose makes me a pot abusing a kettle.
My favourite kind of experience of literature (and music, films, art) is when I feel an emotional punch, particularly when I'm moved to tears, whether because of sympathy or a sense of great beauty or wonder. I didn't sense much emotion in this excerpt. I think that was the biggest flaw for me - a lack of emotion. I'm not sure if the writer is fairly young, but I would guess so.
Again, the story I would like to offer doesn't have much emotional punch, so I really should shut the f@ck up.
So, in conclusion, it was well written and it exuded intelligence and wit.
Well, this is a difficult one. I read the excerpt, but I found it difficult. It made me feel a bit stupid, even though I'm well educated and rate Joyce, George Eliot, Dickens and Tolstoy as being among my favourite authors.
But I guess this might be because it was an excerpt, so if I'd been reading from the beginning I perhaps would have known what was going on. But I didn't. So it seemed a bit meandering and pointless.
Having said that, the short story I'd like to offer is also absolutely pointless, which I suppose makes me a pot abusing a kettle.
My favourite kind of experience of literature (and music, films, art) is when I feel an emotional punch, particularly when I'm moved to tears, whether because of sympathy or a sense of great beauty or wonder. I didn't sense much emotion in this excerpt. I think that was the biggest flaw for me - a lack of emotion. I'm not sure if the writer is fairly young, but I would guess so.
Again, the story I would like to offer doesn't have much emotional punch, so I really should shut the f@ck up.
So, in conclusion, it was well written and it exuded intelligence and wit.
12LShelby
>11 NeilRoyMcFarlane:
Spaceface's excerpt didn't show us any heavily emotionalized content. It didn't give us a dramatic situation to call those emotions out of us.
But because of it I was amused and delighted.
Those are emotions.
Spaceface's excerpt didn't show us any heavily emotionalized content. It didn't give us a dramatic situation to call those emotions out of us.
But because of it I was amused and delighted.
Those are emotions.
13elenchus
That's a pithy description of my own experience.
You've helped me realise that though my emotions weren't evoked subconsciously or surreptitiously, so to speak, my detached observation itself evoked emotions of amusement and delight. As if in place of characters in a modern novel used to invoke my inner emotional states, the writing used me as a character, and my observation of myself invoked an emotional response.
I think that's a description applicable to my experience of many post-modern narratives, but I'd never seen it quite that way: the reader as substitute for a fictional character. Very interesting.
You've helped me realise that though my emotions weren't evoked subconsciously or surreptitiously, so to speak, my detached observation itself evoked emotions of amusement and delight. As if in place of characters in a modern novel used to invoke my inner emotional states, the writing used me as a character, and my observation of myself invoked an emotional response.
I think that's a description applicable to my experience of many post-modern narratives, but I'd never seen it quite that way: the reader as substitute for a fictional character. Very interesting.
14LShelby
>13 elenchus: "the writing used me as a character, and my observation of myself invoked an emotional response."
Ah! Yes. I am connecting to the content directly, instead of through the intermediary of a fictional character.
Which, approaching this as a writer, means that if the reader *doesn't* connect to the content, then there's no emotional reaction and it all goes flat.
But for some readers the gamble pays off.
(And it isn't possible write anything that works for everybody anyhow.)
Ah! Yes. I am connecting to the content directly, instead of through the intermediary of a fictional character.
Which, approaching this as a writer, means that if the reader *doesn't* connect to the content, then there's no emotional reaction and it all goes flat.
But for some readers the gamble pays off.
(And it isn't possible write anything that works for everybody anyhow.)
15NeilRoyMcFarlane
With writing, I'm fascinated by narrative, and I love to see what great writers do with it - Elliot, Joyce (e.g. Dubliners), Dickens, Fitzgerald, etc.
I'm also fascinated by works which have near-universal appeal - Winnie the Pooh, Groundhog Day, Wall-E, Sir Duke, Son of a Preacher Man, etc.
I don't enjoy reading things which are difficult to read or which are concerned with things I'm not concerned with. I'm mostly concerned with life and death and love.
In terms of writing, Spaceface's "essay" is really well written and he's obviously very literate, erudite and probably smarter than me. But in terms of what it's about, I'm just not interested, I'm not touched.
I'm also fascinated by works which have near-universal appeal - Winnie the Pooh, Groundhog Day, Wall-E, Sir Duke, Son of a Preacher Man, etc.
I don't enjoy reading things which are difficult to read or which are concerned with things I'm not concerned with. I'm mostly concerned with life and death and love.
In terms of writing, Spaceface's "essay" is really well written and he's obviously very literate, erudite and probably smarter than me. But in terms of what it's about, I'm just not interested, I'm not touched.