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Hogwarts Express

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1pollysmith
Sep 17, 2007, 7:33am Top

everybody ready?

2foggidawn
Sep 17, 2007, 9:36am Top

Aren't we going to just go ahead and read the next five (and finish the book)? Not that I've actually done so, mind. . . .

*goes off to quickly read the end of SS before everybody else gets here*

3pollysmith
Sep 17, 2007, 11:56am Top

of course nobodys done that! what does the mirror of erised actually say?

4foggidawn
Sep 17, 2007, 12:28pm Top

"I show not your face but your heart's desire." (What is this, WC XII?)

5pollysmith
Sep 17, 2007, 1:06pm Top

just testing since noone has anything to say

6Marensr
Sep 17, 2007, 1:48pm Top

I have a thought, anyone notice how cavallier wizards are about personal safety. I think perhaps since they can use magic to fix everything from acne to missing bones they seem to be more prone to put themselves in dangerous situations, flying sports, dragon bites etc.

Granted they also have more dangerous activities than muggles but it does seem that wizards don't mind a few magical or non-magical mishaps.

It struck me as odd that the Hogwarts administration would allow students to serve detention in the woods that are off limits and reportedly dangerous.

Also I wondered whether Dumbledore's final protection for the stone is really the mirror or is it Harry?

7littlegeek
Sep 17, 2007, 1:51pm Top

Could we have a more descriptive title for this thread? People might want to comment on these chapters later on and will not be able to find it.

8pollysmith
Sep 17, 2007, 1:53pm Top

i also wondered that they were sent into the forbidden forest!

I think it was the mirror. if harry hadn't come along, I don't think Quireel would have gotten it

9Marensr
Sep 17, 2007, 2:15pm Top

Polly that is an interesting point. Harry's involvement actually makes it possible that Quirrell could get the stone. But why did Dumbledore leave the mirror around where Harry could find it and why did he let Harry visit so often?

10gpwts
Sep 17, 2007, 4:53pm Top

I think Dumbledore wanted Harry to get the stone.

But knowing dumbledore a little more, maybe he was just curious to see how far Harry would go? Or maybe because he wanted to see what would happen.

11pollysmith
Sep 17, 2007, 6:00pm Top

I tend to think of DD s a man with failings like the rest of us. I think he thought the stone was safe and sound inside the mirror(or where ever it was) I don't believe he thought harry or anyone else would be able to get it. Remember even Harry didn't MEAN to get it.

12gpwts
Sep 17, 2007, 9:13pm Top

I agree, but it's been proven that DD liked to see what would happen. The guy masterminded most of Harry's life when it came to Voldy. I think the guy probably would have guessed that Harry would try to get the stone, why else would he let Harry have several nights with that mirror? Harry was one of the few who knew how to use it to get the stone (I'm saying he knew that if his deepest desire was the stone he'd see himself finding it)

I think that DD would have known he'd find it.

13Marensr
Sep 17, 2007, 9:43pm Top

I think I'm tending toward agreeing with g, especially in light of the last book I feel more like Dumbledore was orchestrating more of Harry's life and encounters. I also don't know what kind of stock DD was putting in the prophecy at this point.

I am not saying that Harry would not have been in danger anyway but sometimes I think his elders do things that put him in more danger whether they intended it or not.

About the stone I guess DD did not intend any specific person to get the stone only that the person whose intention was not to use it so that would have automatically limited the finder to someone DD would feel he could trust.

14Marensr
Sep 18, 2007, 10:41am Top

A couple more thoughts this morning.

Harry asks Dumbledore about Snape and Dumbledore says that he hated Harry's father and couldn't forgive him because he saved Snape's life- -this is sort of true but not entirely true given the entire series. Is this the first instance of D covering for Snape because he has agreed not to disclose his reasons for doing what he is doing?

Also in all of the challenges to get to the stone I realized I wished she had put a real logic puzzle for the potions challenge in the book. We just read that Hermione has figured it out which is not as fun.

15pollysmith
Sep 18, 2007, 11:54am Top

well if you read the riddle you can figure it out too.

16Marensr
Sep 18, 2007, 12:11pm Top

No you can't because the riddle refers to the height of certain bottles and we are never given a discription of the bottles on the table other than the number of them. Yes we could figure out the end bottles and some of the neighbors. It isn't a true riddle where you can solve it just from reading it requires a visual too which the book never gives. That frustrated me.

17pollysmith
Sep 18, 2007, 12:50pm Top

OIC

18foggidawn
Sep 18, 2007, 1:03pm Top

#16 -- Maren, I remember being frustrated by that the first time I read it. I wanted to solve the puzzle!

The whole sequence of traps and puzzles leading to the Stone is one place in the books where readers really have to suspend disbelief -- I mean, basically the premise is that Hogwarts is safer than Gringotts, but the hiding place at Hogwarts can be breached by three bright first-year students, so how safe is that? I guess that's where the question of Dumbledore's intentions come in to play, and without it there wouldn't be much of a story.

19littlegeek
Sep 18, 2007, 1:15pm Top

The thing about the riddle is, they knew someone else had successfully gone before them, why not just look for the bottle with the least amount of liquid? If I were Quirrelmort, I would have rearranged the bottles. Or, even better, drink all of the good liquid, leaving nothing left for anyone else to get in behind.

ok, I'll shut up now.

20foggidawn
Sep 18, 2007, 2:04pm Top

#19 -- That's partly what I mean about suspending disbelief. I mean, why not take the flying key with you, if you're Quirrelmort? Why leave the instructions for the riddle? Unless he was hoping to be followed by Harry . . . but there was no guarantee of that; from his experience, the person most likely to follow him was Snape.

(But it's a good book and we all love it.)

21pollysmith
Sep 18, 2007, 2:40pm Top

i don't think Quirellmort expected anyone

22littlegeek
Sep 18, 2007, 2:49pm Top

expected or not, why not mix up the bottles at least? He thought ahead enough to get rid of Dumbledore, he might have realised that perhaps DD would be onto him in that regard, or figure it out in time, and taken precautions

23pollysmith
Sep 18, 2007, 3:20pm Top

Ego, thats all, his ego would not let him see the flaws

24elbakerone
Sep 18, 2007, 5:47pm Top

I'm not doing the reread right now, but I'm pretty bored and can I just say "Quirellmort" is my new favorite word!! LOL!!! Extreme kudos to whoever coined that one! You guys are awesome.

25gpwts
Sep 18, 2007, 7:39pm Top

Actually Quirellmort did expect someone. Isn't there something right at the beginning of the man with 2 faces where eh says I've been expecting you

I will throw this out though, maybe he so focused on pleasing his master, to avoid being punished for failing, that he just did everything as fast as possible to just get this done (I'd also imagine a part of him wanted Voldy off his head as quickly as possible)

And I"m with all of you with the logic thing. I was so annoyed I couldn't do it, when I first read it I tried to sketch out the bottles to make it work, but gave up

26biblioholic29
Mar 28, 2008, 7:36pm Top

Okay, I'm on chapter 13 and I noticed some other things to mention.

1. I think the moment I truly fell in love with Harry was when he told Neville "You're worth 12 of Malfoy."

2. On a related note, I think I fell in love with Neville when he took on Crabbe and Goyle all by himself.

3. Harry feels like Snape is following him leading up to the second Quiddich match. Do you think he was?

4. He also thinks that sometimes it seems as if Snape could read minds. We now know he's a legilimens, do you think he did read Harry's mind some? How much do you think he knew about what Harry knew/suspected?

5. It struck me listening to the Quiddich match that at no point in the match do we get Harry's perspective. We are with Hermione and Ron for the entire match. Does that happen again? (Other than "The Riddle House", "The Other Minister", "Spinner's End" and the opening chapter of DH, which don't contain any of the three.) Usually if we see Ron and Hermione we see them from Harry's perspective, I found this digression from the norm intriguing.

27foggidawn
Mar 28, 2008, 8:49pm Top

#26 -- Yes, I think Snape was following Harry. No, I don't think he used Legilimancy on him at that point. Why was he following Harry? Well, since we've declared all of these threads well and truly spoiled, I'll say it: Snape is looking after Harry for Lily's sake, and because DD asked it of him. I think that's one of the reasons Snape gets so irritated with Harry: aside from the fact that Harry's propensity for endangering himself makes him resemble the hated James, it also makes it difficult for Snape to keep Harry both safe and at a distance. But that same distance is the reason why I don't think Snape was using legilimancy -- he didn't want to get close to Harry, and how much closer can you get than being inside someone's head?!

28biblioholic29
Mar 28, 2008, 9:11pm Top

Good point about the Legilimency. I actually didn't think he was doing it either, but because JKR took the time to mention the idea, I thought it would be worth mentioning here.

I don't know why I had never noticed the Snape following Harry thing before. I think it makes sense even without knowing all we know from DH; we know that Snape was actively trying to protect Harry throughout this book, in particular at the Quiddich matches, so it would make perfect sense that Snape would keep an eye on him as often as possible, yet it took listening to truly notice this. I may have to get 3-7 on audio too (I already have CoS), I'm having some different insights this way.

29biblioholic29
Apr 6, 2008, 9:54am Top

Does it bother anyone else that Hagrid lets the kids take Norbert to the tower? He has full reign of the castle and he's much bigger and stronger. Why not just lend the invisibility cloak to him, let him drape it over Norbert and head up to the tower? I know you could say he was too upset, but he is an ADULT and part of being an adult is doing things you don't want to do because they are what's right. I certainly didn't want to give up my cats when I had to move, and I went through all kinds of scenarios, but in the end I knew the best thing for them would be to get them into a new permanent home as quickly as possible. I did was right, not what made me happy and I think Hagrid should have had the guts to too. And why doesn't he at least explain that they were out for him after they're caught? Instead he actually administers their detention! I don't think it makes much sense at all.

Rant over.

30catbastet
Apr 7, 2008, 3:14pm Top

I think the problem was that Hagrid didn't fit under the invisibility cloak. The cloak doesn't stretch enough for all of him and Norbert. When Harry, Hermione, and Ron got taller, it was hard for all of them to go under the cloak at once because their feet would show. I'm sure that if Hagrid was able to fit, then he would have used the cloak.

31biblioholic29
Apr 7, 2008, 5:47pm Top

But why would Hagrid need to go under the invisibility cloak. All he needs to do is cover Norbert. Hagrid is an adult who is free to roam the castle as needed, no one would stop him.

32MrAndrew
Apr 7, 2008, 10:45pm Top

tricky wrapping a live baby dragon in a cloak, and then carrying him in a way that it doesn't look like your hand has disappeared, or that you're carrying something invisible, or without catching on fire.

Of course, he could have wrapped him in a cloak, put him in a box, then carried the "empty" box to the tower. But maybe he didn't think of it. Not the sharpest crayon in the box, that haggers.

Hermoine should have, though.

33biblioholic29
Apr 8, 2008, 8:19am Top

The kids had Norbert in a crate under the cloak, which is what I was thinking Hagrid could have done. Sticking that in another box that he could carry around would have been even better. Stupid kids.

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