Group read: Marriage by Susan Ferrier

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Group read: Marriage by Susan Ferrier

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1lyzard
Jan 31, 2016, 1:16 am



Marriage by Susan Ferrier (1818)

2lyzard
Edited: Jan 31, 2016, 4:58 pm

Welcome to the next step in the Virago Chronological Read Project!

Marriage was the first of three novels written by the Scottish author Susan Ferrier. Although not published until 1818, it was conceived a number of years earlier as a joint project between Ferrier and her friend, Charlotte Clavering; although as it turned out the ideas of the two were much too contrasting for a successful collaboration. In particular, Clavering was a fan of the extravagant Gothic school of writing, whereas Ferrier preferred a more realistic style of writing. The delay involved in reconceiving and rewriting what would become Marriage is significant, in that it carried over the years during which Jane Austen was publishing, Ferrier becoming perhaps the first novelist to be overtly influenced by Austen, who for many people changed the conception of what a novel could and should be. Like Austen, Ferrier felt that novels should have a moral, but shouldn't moralise; and one of her main concerns was likewise the question of what constituted a "good" marriage. (Although, like Austen again, Ferrier never married.) What constituted a good and appropriate education for young women is another prominent theme in her writing.

By 1818, the period we think of as "the Regency" was drawing to a close, and there was beginning to be public backlash against the extravagance and immorality of the aristocracy. Middle-class ideas and mores were being more widely adopted, and the debate over the proper place of women in society and opportunities for women, which would turn out to be one of the major issues of 19th century England, was in its early stages. At that time marriage was still felt to be a woman's only appropriate goal in life, but more concern was being expressed over how marriages were made and the balance between parental authority and a woman's right to choose for herself.

Though Marriage is one of the lesser-known Virago novels, and Ferrier one of the lesser novelists, it is important precisely because of when it was written and published. According to the literary "canon", there was no-one writing novels in between Jane Austen and William Makepeace Thackeray---but of course that's nonsense. Each important novelist is demonstrably influenced by the lesser writers who came before them, who may not have had the same talent, but who very often were the first to deal with themes and ideas which the better writers later made their own. Though Susan Ferrier cannot be called an important novelist, she is important as an illustration of the change of direction taken by the English novel as a consequence of Jane Austen's humour and realism, and for providing an insight into English society at a time when the "canon" has little to say.

3lyzard
Jan 31, 2016, 1:38 am

So who's in? :)

4souloftherose
Jan 31, 2016, 5:08 am

>2 lyzard: Good introduction, thank you.

>3 lyzard: Me!

5CDVicarage
Jan 31, 2016, 5:21 am

I've got my copy ready and I've got a copy on my kindle for carrying around if necessary.

6lauralkeet
Jan 31, 2016, 6:47 am

>4 souloftherose: what Heather said; I'm in too!

7mrspenny
Jan 31, 2016, 7:54 am

I'll try this one too - my copy is ready.

8Soupdragon
Jan 31, 2016, 11:22 am

I'm in but probably won't be able to start reading until Wednesday.

9lauralkeet
Jan 31, 2016, 1:09 pm

I'm feverishly trying to finish a lovely Elizabeth von Arnim which might take me a couple of days, too.

Is there any sort of schedule or desired reading pace for Marriage?

10SassyLassy
Jan 31, 2016, 2:13 pm

I finished it yesterday, so I'm in.

11lyzard
Jan 31, 2016, 4:44 pm

Welcome, everyone - lovely to see you all here!

No hurry about starting, I'm a bit behind myself. I don't think we need a schedule for this one; everyone can just proceed at their own pace.

As usual, please feel free to post as many comments and questions as you like, just making sure to mark the chapter to which you are referring in bold at the beginning of your post. I'm not sure yet if we have different volumes / chapters in the different sources people are reading, so we'll keep an eye on that going forward.

>10 SassyLassy:

Good grief, woman!! :D

12kac522
Jan 31, 2016, 6:55 pm

I'm in.

For the record, I have an Oxford University Press edition (1971) which was part of the Oxford English Novels series.
My edition has 3 Volumes:
Volume I: Chapters I through XXIV
Volume II: Chapters I through XXIII
Volume III: Chapters I through XXII

13Sakerfalcon
Feb 1, 2016, 6:32 am

I'm in, and am hoping to make a start tomorrow evening. Depending how easy it is to read, this may become my commuting book, which means I'll make better progress than if I read it at home with many others competing for my attention!

14SassyLassy
Feb 1, 2016, 8:49 am

>11 lyzard: It went along well for the most part and was quite fun!

I have the Virago edition in your picture.

15lyzard
Edited: Feb 1, 2016, 4:16 pm

No, I don't think it's a difficult read: for the most part it's a satirical look at society, plot-light and dialogue-heavy.

I'm interested in Ferrier's ability (and willingness) to poke fun at all things Scottish, and at the English reaction to all things Scottish, at the same time.

16lyzard
Feb 1, 2016, 4:23 pm

Chapter I

Ferrier doesn't waste any time setting up her main theme, describing one wrong approach to marriage and then plunging straight into the reality of another one:

    But the rapturous expressions which burst from the impassioned Douglas made her forget the gaudy pleasures of pomp and fashion. Amid the sylvan scenes of the neighbouring lakes the lovers sought a shelter; and, mutually charmed with each other, time flew for a while on downy pinions.
    At the end of two months, however, the enamoured husband began to suspect that the lips of his "angel Julia" could utter very silly things; while the fond bride, on her part, discovered that though her "adored Henry's" figure was symmetry itself, yet it certainly was deficient in a certain air---a je ne sais quoi---that marks the man of fashion.
    "How I wish I had my pretty Cupid here," said her Ladyship, with a sigh, one day as she lolled on a sofa: "he had so many pretty tricks, he would have helped to amuse us, and make the time pass; for really this place grows very stupid and tiresome; don't you think so, love?"
    "Most confoundedly so, my darling," replied her husband, yawning sympathetically as he spoke.


17lyzard
Feb 1, 2016, 4:44 pm

Chapter I

And similarly:

Educated for the sole purpose of forming a brilliant establishment, of catching the eye, and captivating the senses, the cultivation of her mind or the correction of her temper had formed no part of the system by which that aim was to be accomplished. Under the auspices of a fashionable mother and an obsequious governess the froward petulance of childhood, fostered and strengthened by indulgence and submission, had gradually ripened into that selfishness and caprice which now, in youth, formed the prominent features of her character. The Earl was too much engrossed by affairs of importance to pay much attention to anything so perfectly insignificant as the mind of his daughter. Her person he had predetermined should be entirely at his disposal, and therefore contemplated with delight the uncommon beauty which already distinguished it; not with the fond partiality of parental love, but with the heartless satisfaction of a crafty politician. The mind of Lady Juliana was consequently the sport of every passion that by turns assailed it...

18LizzieD
Feb 1, 2016, 8:44 pm

So far, I'm in. I started today and find it mostly easy. I'm not sure about my staying power, but I thought that it was one I had started earlier (that turns out to be Crossriggs), so I'm glad that it's this one instead. I'm sort of hoping that the occasional abrupt lack of transitions are Charlotte Clavering's contributions and not SF's.

19lyzard
Feb 1, 2016, 9:07 pm

Welcome, Peggy!

As far as I can gather, the inserted "History Of Mrs Douglas" that comprises most of Chapter XIV is Charlotte Clavering's only real contribution.

The rest is fairly easy although be do have jumps of years in the narrative.

20lyzard
Feb 3, 2016, 4:25 pm

For those interested, I have listed Marriage in TIOLI #12.

21lyzard
Feb 3, 2016, 4:29 pm

Oh noes!

Chapter I

    "Now, what would you think of the Duke of L---?" asked the Earl in a voice of half-smothered exultation and delight.
    "The Duke of L---!" repeated Lady Juliana, with a scream of horror and surprise; "surely, papa, you cannot be serious? Why, he's red-haired and squints, and he's as old as you."

22lyzard
Feb 3, 2016, 4:33 pm

There was a subset of novels towards the end of the 18th century and early in the 19th that dealt with the effects upon the next generation of a "wrong" marriage, and Marriage falls into that category. However, we also see the increased importance of girls' education as a theme: the assertion that a woman who makes an irresponsible marriage cannot raise her daughters well or wisely.

The female focus is both interesting and annoying: it is clear that Henry Douglas is every bit as selfish and irresponsible as Lady Juliana, yet the weight of the novel's criticism falls upon her---even though she has herself been the victim of a damaging upbringing.

23Soupdragon
Edited: Feb 4, 2016, 5:41 am

>21 lyzard: Ah, maybe he just needs a set of teeth, a Brutus and corked eyebrows. I have googled Brutus and am still none the wiser on what it might mean in this context!

ETA: I forgot to say I'm reading the VMC edition.

24CDVicarage
Feb 4, 2016, 7:09 am

>23 Soupdragon: It's a hairstyle for men, slightly windswept-looking. The Prince Regent used to sport one.

25Soupdragon
Feb 4, 2016, 9:54 am

>24 CDVicarage: Thank you Kerry!

26lyzard
Feb 4, 2016, 4:32 pm

Yes, the Brutus was one of several men's hairstyles at the time designed to look as if the hair wasn't styled at all---but all carefully held in place with wax or pomade or (ulp!) bear fat. Something like this:

27SassyLassy
Feb 5, 2016, 11:05 am

Chapter I is delightfully funny and does plunge the reader into what might otherwise appear to be a daunting book.

28lauralkeet
Feb 5, 2016, 12:57 pm

I finally started the book today and like the others am finding it easy going, and it has its amusing moments, that's for sure.

Such as the end of Chapter II -- what an entourage!
...then, tottering before them, he led the way, while her ladyship followed, leaning on her husband, the squirrel on her other arm, preceded by her dogs, barking with all their might, and attended by the mackaw, screaming with all his strength ...

Squirrels! Dogs! Mackaws! Oh my!

29SassyLassy
Feb 5, 2016, 3:59 pm

Lots of great images of Regency pets here, including a squirrel on a lead:

https://www.pinterest.com/sylvestra1800/pug-in-his-mistresss-arms/

Birds and small dogs seem to be the favourites.

30lyzard
Feb 5, 2016, 5:28 pm

Yes, pets at this time were basically a fashion accessory: women wanted something small, that could be carried (rather like the "purse dogs" of today). Lap dogs were bred specifically for that purpose.

In novels, ownership of a lap dog is often a tacit criticism of a woman - as with Lady Bertram in Mansfield Park, for example - and we see that increasingly here with Lady Juliana's preference for her pets over her family.

31SassyLassy
Feb 6, 2016, 1:30 pm

>30 lyzard: Another point of contrast between Lady Juliana and the Douglas ménage in Scotland where there are no pets and the animals are useful creatures with economic purpose.

32Sakerfalcon
Feb 8, 2016, 8:31 am

I spent a lot of time on trains and rail replacement buses this weekend, so managed to finish the book. It was a very good read. I hadn't expected to be plunged into the action so quickly - the plot description on the back of Virago edition covers about the first 5 chapters, if that! Most of the scenes with Juliana in her younger days made me wince, even while I found them amusing - Ferrier is really scathing towards her creation. I do agree with lyzard in post 22 that Douglas gets off lightly - perhaps because, despite his faults, he possesses a degree of tact and some manners when around other people, and tries to consider their feelings, whereas Juliana seems to be totally lacking in thoughtfulness or even awareness of anyone but herself. I suppose Ferrier was aiming her book at a female audience and sending a firm "don't be like this" message to her readers.

33lauralkeet
Feb 8, 2016, 12:29 pm

>32 Sakerfalcon: a lot of time on trains and rail replacement buses
Well, that sounds unpleasant! You were wise to bring a book though.

I just finished Chapter XVI, so I am at p.113 in the VMC edition. Lady Juliana and others just arrived at Lady Isabella Maclaughlan's place earlier than expected. This is pleasant reading but I'm wondering where it's all going.

34SassyLassy
Feb 8, 2016, 3:50 pm

>32 Sakerfalcon: Here is what Ferrier had to say to Charlotte Campbell in a letter, quite tongue in cheek, but probably not far off the mark:

... the moral to be deduced from that is to warn all young ladies against runaway matches... I expect it will be the first book every wise matron will put into the hand of her daughter, and even the reviewers will relax of their severity in favour of the morality of this little work. Enchanting sight! already do I behold myself arrayed in an old mouldy covering, thumbed and creased, and filled with dog's ears.

I found this quote in a letter online and was going to post the link, but now I can't find the specific reference. Her full correspondence does seem to be there though.

>32 Sakerfalcon: Maybe he gets off lightly as he was wise enough to withdraw from the picture and we know little of his faults in later life.

35lyzard
Feb 8, 2016, 4:26 pm

Sorry, people! - didn't mean to drop off like that; the last few days have been a bit difficult.

I think the reason that Douglas is let off lightly is that didactic fiction (which this is, in spite of Ferrier's objections to "moralising" novels) just wasn't interested in men: it was almost invariably written by women, for women.

The inadequacy of female education and the focus of society upon "making a good marriage" in the birth / fortune sense made young women particularly vulnerable to making mistakes not only with immediate disastrous consequences, but long-term ramifications---in particular, the feedback loop of inadequately educated wives raising inadequately educated daughters.

"Educated" was a broad and shaky word, though; Marriage is (eventually) most focused upon a properly religious upbringing, which was viewed as taking care of the rest. If actual learning was grafted on, all the better, but the important thing was the installation of Christian morality which, in its nature, would guard a girl against worldly ambition, love of wealth, personal vanity, etc.

>34 SassyLassy:

In the long run it is going quite a number of places, Laura - just hang in there! :)

36lauralkeet
Edited: Feb 9, 2016, 7:25 am

>34 SassyLassy: I have been meaning to say, I enjoyed your review of this book, SassyLassy. It was a "hot review" on the homepage -- woo hoo!

>35 lyzard: I hung in there thru Aphra Behn's nobleman/sister goings-on. I'm confident there will eventually be a payoff in this one as well. :)

37souloftherose
Feb 10, 2016, 11:52 am

>21 lyzard: Ha!

I've finally started and finding it fairly easy to read. Currently at the end of Chapter II so it sounds like I am some way behind most people.

38lauralkeet
Feb 13, 2016, 12:06 pm

I'm on page 217, the start of Chapter XXXIV.

And there's nothing wrong with the book per se, but it's not grabbing me either. I really despise Lady Juliana and the sudden fast forward 16 years later didn't lead to any improvements in the storyline.

I've set it aside for a bit of a break.

Anyone else still reading this?

39Soupdragon
Edited: Feb 13, 2016, 2:17 pm

>38 lauralkeet: it's proving a slow read for me Laura, maybe for similar reasons. I enjoy the writing style and the ironic touches while I'm reading it, but then I put it down and get caught up reading something which engages me more fully instead. I think it might not be the right book for me right now, and I might try again with it later in the year.

40lauralkeet
Feb 14, 2016, 7:09 am

>39 Soupdragon: that's reassuring Dee, since you and I have similar taste.

41souloftherose
Feb 14, 2016, 8:14 am

>38 lauralkeet: I just read another two chapters today (chapter IX and chapter X) about Lady Maclaughlan's visit which I found quite hard-going. I'm going to put it down for now and try some more later this week as I am feeling quite tired today.

42Soupdragon
Feb 14, 2016, 8:16 am

It has been interesting reading what Liz and others have said about the book's social context, how it is didactic fiction and the reasons why Lady Juliana is not a character to aspire to. I will get back to it one day!

43lauralkeet
Feb 14, 2016, 8:39 am

>41 souloftherose: Heather, maybe it is best taken in small bites. I started reading it that way and then decided to turn my attention to it fully. Hmm ...

>42 Soupdragon: ... And then again, maybe it's the didactic style that sent me over the edge, because that grated on me in Millenium Hall as well.

Parts of the story made me want to scream. People drop dead suddenly with very little build-up or emotion. And I remember reading a chapter that was like a short story within the novel and when I finished I wondered "what was that all about? What was the point of including it in the narrative?" I suppose that's the didactic style; I was probably supposed to learn something from that section. I learned the book makes a loud "thwack" when thrown against the wall, lol.

44Soupdragon
Feb 14, 2016, 11:20 am

>43 lauralkeet: Oh I'm glad I've paused where I have now! Would hate one of my green Viragos to go thwack 😉

45SassyLassy
Feb 14, 2016, 12:33 pm

I don't think Ferrier wrote this as exclusively didactic fiction. She seems to be having fun with it, satirizing the London world (a favourite target for Scots writers) and Lady Juliana is absolutely necessary for that purpose. The humour was one of the things that struck me most about the book.

Reading the comments above, it does seem to make a difference to the perception of the book, how it was read: in bits and pieces, or in chunks. Those reading it in bits and pieces seem to like it least, and the continuum seems to progress from there. I seem to be one of those who liked it most, and I read it pretty much straight through over a couple of days.

I do think it is really interesting for its niche in the development of the novel and the transition to the great age of female authors. Maybe we could explore that a bit.

46souloftherose
Feb 14, 2016, 3:41 pm

I read on a bit further and am now in chapter XIV and enjoying it more. Don't know why I found the Lady Maclaughlan section so difficult to deal with. I agree with >45 SassyLassy: that it seems quite satirical and apart from Lady Maclaughlan I am finding it quite funny.

47Soupdragon
Feb 14, 2016, 5:48 pm

I have enjoyed the satire and irony, but think I will appreciate the book more fully if I return to it later. I've had to bring home quite a bit of work to do over the weekend, and am veering towards the purely escapist for my non-work related reading right now.

48lyzard
Feb 15, 2016, 4:47 pm

Phew! Sorry, all, I've been having an absolute bitch of a time lately and haven't been around LT at all.

Reading your comments and different reactions with great interest now---I always read "straight through" unless there's a specific reason why I can't, so I can't really comment on the different approaches. I can only say that I found this a fairly easy read---but then, I'm used to this sort of fiction!

The impression I got overall was that Ferrier was much more comfortable writing in a satirical vein---she seems to me most at home writing the England vs Scotland stuff in the first half of the novel, and the scenes with Lady Emily in the second half. But then it's if she periodically remembers that she's "supposed" to be writing didactic fiction and resorts to a more solemn, lecturing style. This inability to control the tone of the writing marks Ferrier as a minor novelist.

On the other hand, having read a lot of 18th and 19th century didactic fiction, I have to say that I am extremely impressed with the way Ferrier tackles head-on a question that most didactic novelists avoid like the plague---namely, what's a girl to do if she has awful / irresponsible parents?

Didactic fiction as a genre is obsessed with telling young women what their duty is, and absolute obedience to parents comes at the top of the list---but what should a girl do if her parents are telling her to do something her conscience says is wrong? What if a parent fails in their duty of teaching morality / religion?

I was impressed with the weight Ferrier gives to that dilemma, and the way she dissects Mary's attempts to figure out where she can dutifully draw the line. It's also very interesting that she examines the issue in light of Mary's marriage, and considers how far, and on what terms, a young woman should be able to choose for herself, against her parents' wishes.

So I agree this is a very uneven work, but it's also important for the battles it chooses to fight.

>43 lauralkeet:

Sorry, Laura, but "didactic" is pretty much unavoidable in women's fiction at this time!---women were only supposed to be reading / writing fiction if there was A MESSAGE.

Story-wise, we need to keep in mind that this was a time of sudden / unheralded death, so that's not just a plot convenience. Pre-modern medicine, the world was a deadly place; many "realistic" novels of this period rack up a body-count that these days you'd only find in a horror story! :)

(And if there's anything you really don't get, please note it here!)

49souloftherose
Feb 19, 2016, 7:15 am

>48 lyzard: 'it's if she periodically remembers that she's "supposed" to be writing didactic fiction and resorts to a more solemn, lecturing style'

Yes, it does feel that way with Mrs Douglas' sections having a more didactic feel so far.

I'm still reading and have just got to Chapter XXVII. I am still struggling with Lady Maclaughlan whenever she appears - is she supposed to be satirical? I just don't get her...

50lyzard
Edited: Feb 20, 2016, 5:59 pm

I think Lady Maclaughlan is more of a plot device than a character: Ferrier seems to use her in a variety of ways according to what point she's making at that moment. So sometimes she appears as a warning against women wearing the pants in marriage, and other times as a warning against marriage per se; sometimes she's used comedically, and sometimes she's the voice of reason. There's no consistency in it, so you have to just take each of her appearances on face value, without thinking about how she appeared "last time".

This made me laugh, though---

Chapter IX

"Humph!" rejoined her ladyship, as she surveyed him from head to foot: "so your wife fell in love with you, it seems: well, the more fool she; I never knew any good come of love marriages;---my first marriage was a love match---humph! my second was---humph!"

51lyzard
Feb 20, 2016, 6:00 pm

BY THE WAY---

I have just realised that the edition of Marriage available through Project Gutenberg is not the full text!---that quote's not there, for one thing; I don't know how much else has been trimmed from that edition. Very frustrating and disappointing---and may be impacting the different reactions?

52kac522
Feb 20, 2016, 6:23 pm

Just finished. Loved Lady Emily and Dr. Redgill. I found that Volume II (the middle) tended to drag, and it was easy for me to put the book down. (And I have to admit I skimmed the stuff in Scottish dialect.) The last volume, however, flew by. I also liked the sections where Ferrier stopped to consider the various marriage relationships.

53lyzard
Feb 20, 2016, 6:47 pm

Well done!

Yes, I think all that is fair comment. It's very interesting to me that Ferrier pulled the classic stunt of the 'perfect' heroine with the less-than-perfect best friend, who says and does things, and raises issues, that the heroine - being a heroine - cannot. It became very common practice for female novelists to resort to that trick---excusing themselves by tut-tutting the flawed character while using that character to make their points.

But I must say I found Mary's reaction to Lady Emily's choice hilarious---who hasn't been in that situation with regards to a friend's relationship?? "Really? You're sure?" :D

54mrspenny
Feb 20, 2016, 7:11 pm

I'm still reading and enjoying everybody's comments on the way through!

55Soupdragon
Feb 21, 2016, 4:42 am

>51 lyzard: That's interesting about the Project Gutenberg edition. I started off with the Virago and did become less engaged shortly after switching to my Kindle version.

I can't completely blame the edition though. I think Marriage is the wrong book for me right now. Reduced reading time is making me grumpy with any book which I have made a commitment to, rather than chosen freely!

I will return to the (Virago) book though and also to this thread for reference. Thank you so much, Liz for sharing your literary expertise with us.

56Sakerfalcon
Feb 21, 2016, 10:21 am

>52 kac522:, >53 lyzard: I too loved Lady Emily; she and Mary reminded me somewhat of Cecilia and Lady Honoria in Cecilia and clearly Emily and Honoria served the same purpose in the narrative.

I enjoyed the various "bit part" characters who appeared in just a scene or two, particularly in the latter part of the book, who were clearly serving as examples of a "type" but who added humorous touches. I'm thinking especially of the women upon whom Mary and Grizzy call while in Bath.

57souloftherose
Feb 22, 2016, 12:54 pm

>51 lyzard: How strange about the Project Gutenberg edition.

I've reached the end of Volume I and am struggling again. I may put the book aside for a few days before making a start on Volume II.

58SassyLassy
Feb 22, 2016, 4:07 pm

>57 souloftherose: Project Gutenberg often uses older bowdlerized editions as they are out of copyright, and so lack much of the editing and original material later editions restore. This was the case notably with A Child of the Jago. I suspect it may be the case with Sigrid Undset's books as well.
The other problem is that it also lacks the supplementary material so many presses like Oxford add, such as notes, glossaries, introductions, bibliographies, on and on.

59lyzard
Edited: Feb 22, 2016, 4:48 pm

>54 mrspenny:

Thanks for checking in, Trish!

>55 Soupdragon:

I hope you'll have better luck at another time, Dee.

>56 Sakerfalcon:

It was a fairly common tactic to have two girls with different characters / attitudes like that---Cecilia and Lady Honoria are another example, as you point out, though the dynamic between Mary and Lady Emily is quite different in that there are points of similarity and a real friendship between them; whereas Cecilia was often just as mortified by Honoria's behaviour as anyone else!

(Note that both "non-perfect" girls are of the aristocracy, a tacit admission that different codes of behaviour applied to girls of the upper- and middle-classes.)

Yes, again you get the feeling that Ferrier is more comfortable with comic / satirical material: most of the scenes that people highlight haven't much to do with the plot, while it seems to be "the plot" that people are struggling with.

>57 souloftherose:

No problem, Heather!

>58 SassyLassy:

It is so frustrating that this should be the case with what is for many people the only way of accessing a particular novel.

It's so hard to tell, too! - but as we go forward with this project, I will make it a point to try and find an uncut version of what we're reading, and let everyone know where to find it.

60SassyLassy
Feb 22, 2016, 6:52 pm

>59 lyzard: ...as we go forward with this project

I like the sound of that and am happy to hear it will continue. Thanks for all the work you put into it.