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Spam reporting thread #61

This is a continuation of the topic Spam reporting thread #60.

This topic was continued by Spam reporting thread #62.

Spam Fighters!

Join LibraryThing to post.

Edited: Dec 29, 2017, 9:17am Top


Distinguish between the following, and flag the highest level of the violation:

-- Type 1: Irredeemable commercial spam: make sure to flag the member's profile, as well as the spammy activity. This type includes things selling strollers, pharmaceuticals, live-streaming sports games, porn, and/or trying to create traffic/links to sites for such things. Sufficient profile flags will automatically result in temporary suspension and deletion of the member's activity, so use your profile-flagging powers wisely and carefully.

-- Type 2: Teachable moments: DO NOT flag the member's profile, but DO flag the violating activity (e.g. self-promotional Talk post, group, or local venue). This type includes promotional activity that violates the Terms of Service (TOS), but where the member is potentially redeemable, e.g. overzealous authors, overzealous publishers, or other members with small TOS violations but who are otherwise using the site legitimately. These cases should be reported to staff (by sending a message or email to staff and/or or posting on this thread), so the member can be taught how to use the site.

Specific procedures:
-- Overzealous authors or publishers (these fall under type 2): do NOT flag the member's profile. Report to staff here or privately. You can also send the member a polite message pointing them to the terms, mentioning the "no promoting" language, and pointing them to the Do's and Don't page for authors: http://www.librarything.com/about_authors.php
-- Suspected sock-puppetry to promote a book, write fake reviews, and/or stack ratings: do not flag the profile, but report to staff here or by message, so staff can investigate. This is a serious violation for which members can be permanently banned.
-- Profile flags for commercial spammers only (type 1): On the member's profile page, click on the "report for spam" link, then follow instructions to flag the member. Again, this is only for commercial spam, not for "overzealous" authors, publishers, or booksellers, which should be reported to staff instead. See Talk post: http://www.librarything.com/topic/85810
-- Spam or promotional posts in a Talk topic (type 1 or 2): flag the post as an abuse of the terms of service.
-- Spam or promotional groups (types 1 and 2): flag new groups using the "flag this group" link.
-- Spam lists: report in this thread, and flag the member if it's commercial spam.
-- Spam works (type 1 spam): flag the work as spam on the work's editions page, and then vote on proposed work spam. Make sure to read the guidelines before proposing or voting, especially for what is not spam. Voting page: http://www.librarything.com/spam_works.php
-- Spam in a review (type 1), or an explicitly promotional review (type 2): flag the review as an abuse of the TOS, using the red flag.
-- Spam or promotion in "published reviews," or other CK fields (type 1 or 2): post here and/or delete.
-- Spam or egregious promotion/advertising in venues or events (type 1 or 2): post here and/or delete. Note that authors are permitted to add events for their books.
-- Spam in book links / quick links: post here and/or edit to remove spam.
-- Spam author names listed on a work: No current procedure. Tim has asked us not to change CK to indicate spammers, and not to combine spam authors together.
-- Not sure if it's spam? Post here, and explain why.

Please note that Tim has asked us not to use either CK or the combining system (whether works or authors) for spam fighting.

For more information see these wiki pages:
Procedures for flagging and reporting spam: https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/Spam
Spam works, guidelines for flagging and voting: http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/HelpThing:Spam_works

(A copy of these guidelines, for pasting in new threads, can be found here or at the top of previous threads.)

Edited: Dec 26, 2017, 8:40am Top

The published review for this book, https://www.librarything.com/work/6856570/book/135099685#, contains a link to a commercial site in Indonesia (link removed), added by this member (link removed), while quoting the review of another LT member to make the review appear genuine.

(This member's) profile page also links to another commercial site: (link removed)

Edited to remove web links now the spam links and spammer profile have been deleted.

Dec 26, 2017, 8:16am Top

>2 passion4reading: You might want to remove those spam links from your post, as you are unwittingly accomplishing web presence for them.

Dec 26, 2017, 8:37am Top

>7 2wonderY: How do I do that, please? I experimented with and tags, but the URLs wouldn't reproduce.

Dec 26, 2017, 8:55am Top

>8 passion4reading: the link to the talk post, the work, the profile are all OK, as those are what you want people to Flag. What you want to avoid adding is the external website link.

Dec 26, 2017, 9:56am Top

Thanks Helen. I'm obviously not as clear on the outside as I am in my own head :^%


Dec 26, 2017, 11:20am Top

>9 Helenliz: Thanks, Helen.

Dec 27, 2017, 11:20am Top

>14 2wonderY: This is the second profile posted here with that period at the end, and it took me till now to figure out that I can't do it the easy way. The URL created by LT (and in general, I'm sure) *shows* the dot at the end as the end of a sentence sort of punctuation, and eliminates it as part of the URL. This means that when I've clicked on it, I get the "this user doesn't exist" from LT, rather than the expected "This member has been provisionally suspended for unusual activity." It took me until this morning (and the second one of these) to be smart enough to just add the period at the end of the name manually (although a copy/paste would have also done it).

I point this out mostly for others who may be unawares. The other one is above, at >5 Helenliz:, and I admit to being disheartened, because it just shows that the little spammer creatures have learned a new trick.

Dec 27, 2017, 11:24am Top

Aha! I saw that period and wondered about it. Thanks for 'splainin' it.

Edited: Dec 27, 2017, 12:39pm Top

Spam at the wiki, user is already suspended (>13 2wonderY:):


Dec 27, 2017, 1:02pm Top

>19 tartan_skirt:

Those are very old! He did that in 2013, so there's likely no point in leaving him a note.

Unfortunately, there's no way to mark them as spam.

Dec 28, 2017, 8:20am Top

Dec 28, 2017, 8:24am Top

>21 2wonderY: The two disguised ones can be spotted by the bad English translation.
Though they did misspell phishing on the one... :)

Edited: Dec 28, 2017, 11:49am Top


Keeps breaking my blasted link...

Wiki spam by user Leo909 (Already suspended)

Dec 29, 2017, 4:08am Top

This topic, https://www.librarything.com/topic/279414, by member https://www.librarything.com/profile/loiskonope2., won't show up in the Spam folder, despite my flagging it twice; a result of the additional period at the end?

Edited: Dec 29, 2017, 4:32am Top

Flagging does NOT move things to the spam folder. There is an algorithm that tries to guess whether or not a message is spam. The messages the computer thinks might be spam get put in the spam folder. Then we have to decide whether or not that is the case, saving those that shouldn't be there.

Spam that the algorithm misses need to be flagged. Four flags on the spam will make it disappear. So will enough flags on the member to suspend. These still don't go into the spam folder. They disappear.

The member you mention is suspended. The topic is gone.

Dec 29, 2017, 5:59am Top

It would be good if those Spam Fighters who've been doing it for a long time could maybe explain to those are new to the group how the process works, seeing as some are clearly exasperated by comments and what they consider unnecessary flagging. I've read through the Wiki on spamming but a lot of questions remain. I thought we all have the same aim here; I didn't realise that certain members would get quite so possessive or feel competitive about the whole thing.

When someone erroneously leaves a message on Book Talk, requesting help with the finding of a book title, helpful LT members patiently direct them to the Name That Book group. Maybe it would be an idea for the powers that be to set up a page that new Spam Fighters could be sent to, so that established ones don't have to work themselves up quite so much, feeling they need to correct the well-intended efforts of others.

Since I've joined the group a few days ago I've already received flak four times, from three different members, when all I'm trying is to be helpful and give something back to the LT community. Right now I'm considering leaving the group; the time spent flagging spam could be spent reading, for example.

Dec 29, 2017, 7:40am Top

>29 passion4reading: what they consider unnecessary flagging

Okay, this intrigues me.

Each flag has an established and documented protocol. What is being flagged unnecessarily? Reviews? Posts? Profiles?

At the top of each Spam Reporting thread, there is a post that outlines exactly how and what to flag/Report.

If someone is being a bully, that's a TOS violation that should be reported to the Admin.

But also remember, this is text and we place our own context into what is placed on the screen, without the other 75% of the communication channel. What may be seen as exasperated or otherwise mean are actually just the succinct (and sometimes blunt) ways some people are.

Realize that, like the tag voting, everyone has an opinion on what is or isn't spam and that will lead to disagreements.

Dec 29, 2017, 8:53am Top

>30 gilroy:

What is being flagged unnecessarily? Reviews? Posts? Profiles?

I've seen a plenty of unnecessary (and wrong) flags on reviews. There are folks who will flag an author's review of his own work, even though that is explicitly permitted under the terms of service. And, of course, there are those who flag reviews because a) they disagree with the review, or, b) they don't understand what a flag is and think that it's a positive thing (really).

I've also seen people who are quick to flag posts and/or profiles if by someone who has just joined and not yet catalogued anything, apparently on the assumption that if you post before cataloguing you must be a spammer.

Dec 29, 2017, 9:04am Top

>31 lilithcat:

Well review flags have been contentious since they were introduced.

think that it's a positive thing (really).
And they're on a sight about books and reading? Uh ... I'll bite my tongue beyond that...

I've also seen people who are quick to flag posts and/or profiles if by someone who has just joined and not yet catalogued anything, apparently on the assumption that if you post before cataloguing you must be a spammer.
That's plain rude...

Dec 29, 2017, 9:21am Top

>29 passion4reading:

Please don't leave the group. We need all the help we can get! I'm sorry you've interpreted some of the replies to your posts as rude; I don't think they were meant that way.

Do check out the first post in every Spam Reporting Thread, as well as the links therein. This will give you some guidance.

And feel free to ask questions. If you are uncertain about whether something is spam, you can post in the "Is this spam?" threads: http://www.librarything.com/topic/274724

Dec 29, 2017, 9:25am Top

>33 lilithcat: That's a helpful link for questions - thank you.

Dec 29, 2017, 9:44am Top

>30 gilroy: in Spam reporting thread #60 I flagged, i.e. posted in the thread, several member profiles and topics that were clearly commercial spam, and hadn't been posted in the thread before, and one member commented, "Are you finding these items in the Spam folder? After following along with your last post, and then visiting the spam folder, I realized that you were posting things here that were only there. It's fine to point out that things need addressing there, but please don't post them all here", while another *helpfully* pointed out, "You really don't need to copy spam into here if it is already in the spam folder."

At that point I had no idea, and frankly I'm still a bit hazy on the subject, what exactly the Spam folder is. After I discovered that I could actually flag member profiles and click on a Spam? link in a particular topic, a list popped up and so I thought I had discovered it, which is what my post at >27 passion4reading: refers to; clearly not, as this then prompted MarthaJeanne's reply.

>33 lilithcat: Thank you for your kind words, they are much appreciated. I've decided to stay in the group, at least for now, because we all want to reduce the amount of spam being posted on LT. I've read the guidelines for flagging spam at the beginning of each new thread quite extensively, and other topics posted in the Spam Fighters group, but I'm still not entirely sure how it all works. I think it's easy to forget for those who've been Spam Fighters for a long time that they once were new to this (unless they have some IT background, of course) and they may start patronising those who still don't know the ropes (I don't mean you, lilithcat); where I come from, this is considered rude. A friendly (and patiently explained) nudge to how they would like to see things reported would do the trick much better.

Dec 29, 2017, 9:49am Top

As the relevant work has already been suppressed, I can't delete the spam posted in the haiku field, which now appears in https://www.librarything.com/more/haiku.

Dec 29, 2017, 10:18am Top

>36 passion4reading: Ah. I got it.

A tip for you passion4reading : When a work is suppressed, it's still possible to access that first page. There should be a link that says "View it here". Click on that, and you can go in and erase the spam Common Knowledge.

The one that you noted here was a beast. Every line had the same ad crap...

Dec 29, 2017, 10:35am Top

>37 gilroy: Where can I access that first page, please? It might be really obvious, but I can't see it.

Edited: Dec 29, 2017, 10:53am Top

>38 passion4reading: Ah, yes, that does help. :)

If it is a recent kill, you can look at the spam work options, selecting above threshold (and depending on if you voted to send it to spam or not Voted or Unvoted(?)) . It will be on the list.

If it is an older kill, that's a more difficult thing and you'd need to know the work number to hunt it down.


Since I voted on them, they were in my voted link. Yours may be in the unvoted section.

Dec 29, 2017, 12:51pm Top

>39 gilroy: Someone's already deleted it. Thanks for the tip. I found the page you mentioned and bookmarked it.

>41 2wonderY: No, it wasn't you, but I appreciate your reply.

Dec 30, 2017, 12:15am Top

and "shazam!", he's gone.

Dec 30, 2017, 4:15am Top

Spam at the wiki, user: https://www.librarything.com/profile/gubbara


Dec 30, 2017, 1:41pm Top

I've come across a lot of spam posts on this page: http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContribu... but I can't believe that this hasn't been picked up yet. How can I find out if these individual posts have already been reported?

When clicking on the user I get the message that the page doesn't exist. Does this mean the profile has already been deleted?

Apologies if these questions appear basic, I'm just trying to learn the ropes!

Edited: Dec 30, 2017, 2:28pm Top

>47 passion4reading: All pages are at the "old" wiki (starting with www.librarything.com/wiki ), and will be deleted in time. This month the "new" wiki was released, those pages start with https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php

It looks like all users on the page you found are suspended.

Dec 30, 2017, 3:02pm Top

>48 FAMeulstee: Thank you. I'll keep checking the new Wiki from now on.

Edited: Dec 31, 2017, 3:26pm Top

Well, those are two restaurants that will not be on my list to try when I'm in NYC in a couple of weeks!

Edited: Dec 31, 2017, 6:11pm Top


garage doors


chauffeur/limo services

cocktail bar


taco bar

online business directory


real estate

garage services

link to gardening website


machine shop

clothes manufacturing

clothes shopping

barber shop

Jan 2, 7:22pm Top

Jan 3, 2:15pm Top

Jan 3, 3:02pm Top

>72 FAMeulstee: Must be some nasty stuff - my computer is blocking me from both links.

Edited: Jan 3, 3:18pm Top

Sorry, used http: instead of https:, I have changed both links.

Jan 3, 3:28pm Top

There doesn't seem to be a way to flag when you list them as .nl
I'm having to change them to .com

Edited: Jan 3, 3:32pm Top

My fault again, changing all the links.. if you log in it works, but I go back to the LT.com site.

Edited: Jan 4, 12:07am Top

"violates Primal XL metabolism, resulting in Primal XL formation of fatty deposits" (what???)


not sure why clicking the profile link gives this message: Error: This user doesn't exist
it's still there; you can reach it by going to the topic and clicking the poster's name

Jan 4, 4:13am Top

at the wiki, the user is already suspended: https://www.librarything.com/profile/Vishalhasd

but he left two pages on the wiki:

Jan 4, 9:17am Top

>80 Taphophile13: There is a period at the end of the user name but that gets stripped out when you post a link here. People will have to click on the link you posted and then manually add a period to the end of the URL

Edited: Jan 4, 11:40am Top

Ukrainian marriage brokers

Visit our website if you want a ukraine girl for marriage

Jan 4, 12:28pm Top

>80 Taphophile13: and >84 norabelle414: (etc) I think that lilithcat probably needs to update the top of the page with this new small item. I first noticed the problem a while back, and it took me a long time to understand it (after which I wanted to call the doctor and have him check my brain to make sure it was still there). I don't think I ever saw a profile with the period on the end before the last few weeks, and I'd bet that it slows down automated tools (whether here, or elsewhere).

I've never forgotten the amazement of news server administrators world wide when Clarence L. Thomas IV showed up in January 1994 with his crazy religious proclamation, which hit every single news server world wide, and caused general distraction of amazement that someone would do such a thing. I miss those early days, when the world was smaller, and more innocent.

Whew. You are all saved by my common sense intervening. This almost turned into a novella.

Jan 4, 12:45pm Top

Thanks for fighting the good fight while we were out for the holidays, everyone! I've knocked down all the wiki spam I can find, and better automatic measures (i.e. when a user is marked as spam on the main site, they are also blocked on the wiki automatically) are in the pipeline. In the meantime, I'll keep patrolling the Recent Changes page.

Jan 4, 12:58pm Top

At the wiki by suspended user: https://www.librarything.nl/profile/Castcom


Edited: Feb 9, 10:47pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

Edited: Jan 4, 1:15pm Top

>89 supercell: that's been a regular request that gets ... ignored.

Jan 4, 1:36pm Top

>89 supercell: If that were implemented it would not take long for the bots to figure it out and start a new account after posting X number of messages. At least if 92 messages are posted by the same account then they can all be wiped out at once by removing that account.

Edited: Feb 9, 10:47pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

Edited: Jan 5, 12:10am Top

male enhancement

Another one with the period at the end. Reach the profile by going to the topic or click the profile link and add a 1 in the URL.

Jan 5, 9:27am Top

>96 Taphophile13:

Another one with the period at the end. Reach the profile by going to the topic or click the profile link and add a 1 in the URL.

I think you mean "add a period".

Edited: Jan 6, 12:11am Top

appetite, muscle-building

click the profile link and manually add a period to the end of the URL

OK, it's gone

Jan 6, 6:29pm Top

It took a few minutes for me to decide, and I'm still trying to think of what to compose to our newest (sort of) enthusiastic author.

Profile (please don't flag): http://www.librarything.com/profile/CeDany

Topic (please do): http://www.librarything.com/topic/250442#6320627

I'm willing to have someone explain why I'm wrong, of course.

Jan 6, 6:41pm Top

>114 Lyndatrue: I think leaving the usual "don't advertise your books anywhere except in the accepted places" blurb on her profile will do fine. Apparently she didn't notice post #4.

Jan 6, 9:03pm Top

If it weren't for the links, I wouldn't mind it, but that's a bridge too far.

She's been a member for over two years and can't even be bothered to catalog her own book? Not very good at self-promotion!

Edited: Jan 8, 9:57am Top

Author trolling for reviews:


http://www.librarything.com/profile/Isaiah39 (do not flag profile)

ETA: Never mind! 2wonderY has faster fingers. ;-)

Edited: Feb 9, 10:46pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

Edited: Feb 9, 10:46pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

Edited: Feb 9, 10:46pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

Edited: Feb 9, 10:46pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

Jan 9, 8:23am Top

>132 passion4reading: & >133 passion4reading: Shouldn't these go in the spam profile thread?

Jan 9, 8:27am Top

>134 lesmel: I was told that long lists only go on the spam profile thread. If you scroll up the thread, you will notice that other members flag up profiles on this thread too, not just me.

Edited: Jan 9, 8:50am Top

Spam author photo:

(Spam author, too, but no way to flag an author page.)

Jan 9, 1:36pm Top

http://www.librarything.com/profile/fdsfsdf is pushing multiple Skype support threads in Book Talk

Jan 9, 1:39pm Top

Edited: Feb 9, 10:46pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

Jan 9, 2:30pm Top

and here's another one with dozens of posts


Edited: Feb 9, 10:46pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

Edited: Feb 9, 10:46pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

Jan 11, 1:06pm Top


Author spam. I’ve left a note, but not a link to the wiki.

Jan 11, 2:15pm Top

>153 2wonderY: That was http://www.librarything.com/profile/Hope5 (please don't flag.) Links are posted.

Jan 11, 9:51pm Top

author advertizing

Don't flag profile:

I'll leave a note for him

Edited: Jan 12, 11:08am Top

I have no words.


(It isn't an enthusiastic author, it's too early for me to have kindness, and one of the things that has always made me crazy is the "I know this is probably something I shouldn't do, but just in case it's okay, I'll try it, just this once.")

Huh. Never mind. Apparently I wasn't the only annoyed one.

Jan 12, 5:10pm Top

Both the profiles in >161 2wonderY: are still there, and I'm puzzled as to how to flag that picture in the first profile. It doesn't appear in flagged pictures, either.

I'm tempted to flag it as a DMCA request, since it is obviously deserving.

Huh. Never mind. It's all finally gone.

Jan 12, 5:26pm Top

>162 Lyndatrue:

I'm puzzled as to how to flag that picture in the first profile.

Profile pictures cannot be flagged.

Jan 12, 7:37pm Top

>163 lilithcat: Well, that would explain it. Thank you. Always nice to learn something new (and this one has puzzled me before). :-}

Edited: Jan 13, 12:19am Top

skin care


It's another one of those that you have to manually add a period in the URL after you click the link.

Edited: Jan 13, 11:17am Top

Not spam yet, but it's waiting. Please flag profile and topic now.


Well, that didn't take long.

Jan 14, 5:53pm Top

manufacturer and exporter of leather cricket balls
Kid work is completely vetoed in our organization. (so is that no child labor or no kid leather?)

An affiliate cum blogger. Like exploring new strategies and playing around with them. Presently, building up an affiliate review portal, a health niche website and branding my identity. (=e-commerce site)

Jan 14, 10:21pm Top

for your family's natural health

Jan 15, 1:34am Top

Question about wiki spam: would it help if I remove the spam content when I find a spam page at the wiki?

Jan 15, 6:07am Top

User changed the main wiki page into spam: https://www.librarything.com/profile/ankittiwari

Jan 15, 8:36am Top

A request to all:

Some of the links here are extremely long. Please consider using an URL shortener such as Tiny URL: https://tinyurl.com/ when you encounter one of those, as they do not always break on some devices or os/browser configurations. So the page can get very stretched out and the font tiny.

Jan 15, 8:39am Top

>178 lilithcat: Or a seperate wiki spam thread?

Jan 15, 8:46am Top

>179 FAMeulstee:

Not a bad idea. I actually thought there was one, but I must have been thinking of the bug thread about wiki spam.

Edited: Jan 15, 8:48am Top

>180 lilithcat: >178 lilithcat: If I have to make the URL short, it would keep me from reporting wiki spam.

Jan 15, 1:19pm Top

The bots have branched out and are now posting spam in both Book Talk and 75 Books Challenge for 2018 groups. I've flagged several users but it's likely they'll keep posting. Please keep an eye out.

Edited: Jan 16, 12:17pm Top

Amazing. Already gone (I was concerned, since there were two messages on the topic, but it still vanished).


Edited: Jan 16, 1:18pm Top

Prolific spam bot active in Book Talk: https://www.librarything.com/profile/jaimhaj

ETA: Whoosh, it's gone!

Edited: Jan 17, 12:23pm Top

Google translate support (so why call themselves TurboTax?)


Edited: Feb 9, 10:45pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

Jan 17, 1:42pm Top

>195 supercell: You do know that those posts which automatically drop into the Spam folder will automatically RIP on their own. I stop in there occasionally to make sure valid posts don't die. And now and then, when things are really slow, I will flag posts and spammers from there. But it's much like shooting fish in a barrel.

Edited: Feb 9, 10:45pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

Edited: Jan 17, 2:28pm Top

>199 supercell: Ah! I guess I'm just missing them on the main topics page then. Carry on!

Jan 17, 6:28pm Top

>200 2wonderY: Don't feel alone in this. I was making that same assumption myself, until I started to see a few of my own. Often, there's a post or two, and then it all vanishes into the spam folder, which makes it seem to those of us who frequent the place that someone's just pointing things out that are from there. There has been a stunning increase in spam here on LT (and I've been seeing it elsewhere as well, although different than what shows up here).

It makes me really sad.

Jan 18, 9:11am Top

>200 2wonderY:, >201 Lyndatrue: Topics posted by an account that has been flagged as spam, but has not yet been "tombstoned" (i.e. the topics that are not red on the spam page) do show up on the group page of whatever group they were posted to, but do not show up on the main talk page. You're not overlooking them.

Jan 18, 10:03am Top


translating the about me: American ABC dream American company was founded in the United States Irvine, is a Chinese student studying in the United States to apply for information or visa applications, project guidance and the United States living and settlement services

Edited: Feb 9, 10:45pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

Jan 23, 11:38am Top

Enthusiastic author (and ALL the "books" in his library are by him as well):

(Someone should give it one more flag, in case the original poster figures out counter-flagging, and yes, I am heartless.)


http://www.librarything.com/profile/Liam_Mullen (Remember not to flag)

I'm about to go off and leave the standard message on the profile, but someone who can't be bothered to have correct information on his own books is almost certainly a drive-by author...but we'll see.

Jan 24, 2:27pm Top

This thread is getting slow to load, so I'm continuing it here: http://www.librarything.com/topic/285479

This topic was continued by Spam reporting thread #62.

Group: Spam Fighters!

168 members

23,139 messages


This topic is not marked as primarily about any work, author or other topic.


No touchstones

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