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illustrations in peter pan in kensington gardens

Folio Society devotees

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1petrosyanmd
Oct 11, 9:20pm Top

I was looking to buy this book (and the 2006 peter pan book), but it seems FS edition has only 12 illustrations, and the same book from calla editions has 50 illustrations. Is this really the case? What about the peter pan and wendy book, is it short of illustrations compared to the original? thanks.

2astropi
Oct 11, 10:53pm Top

Yup, the original had 50 illustrations. EP has a beautiful DLE of the book, but it is really expensive...
https://www.eastonpress.com/prod/C45/3221/PETER-PAN-IN-KENSINGTON-GARDEN

3teppi2
Edited: Oct 12, 3:04pm Top

The Arthur Rackham illustrations in Folio Society’s 2004 edition of Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens are from the first edition published by Hodder Stoughton (UK) or Scribner’s (US) in 1906. The original book did indeed contain one frontpiece + 49 tipped in illustrations for a total of 50 plates.

Debra McFarlane illustrated in the 2006 Folio Society edition of Peter Pan and Wendy. To my understanding, those illustrations were specifically created for this edition and thus are complete. I think the first edition of the novel (Hodder Stoughton/Scribner’s, 1911) was illustrated by F.D. Bedford with black and white plates, while the editions from the 1921 onwards were illustrated by Mabel Lucie Attwell with 12 color plates.

If you are looking for a version of Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens with the full color plates, there is another option in addition to the Calla Edition you mentioned and the Easton DLE:
Hodder Stoughton re-published several of their golden-age books in the late 70’s and early 80’s.
They re-issued Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens in 1983/1984 in a cloth-bound and leather-bound option. Although copies currently listed are rather pricey (from about $80 for the cloth-bound and $200 for the leather-bound), they occasionally pop up much cheaper. I bought a fine leather-bound copy for about $30 on ebay and saw another very good copy going for $40 on Abe. The book I have does contain all 50 plates, tipped in with tissue guards. However, I feel the Folio Society plates are of better quality. I also prefer the Folio Society cloth binding to the "genuine" leather of the Hodder Stoughton one. Attached are some pictures of the Folio vs the Hodder Stoughton book (not the greatest pictures and my first attempt at posting here, so not sure if they will display correctly):




Hodder Stoughton also re-issued the 1921 edition of the Peter Pan and Wendy novel with the Mabel Lucie Attwell plates. The edition in dark blue (nearly black) leather contains tipped in plates, while the cloth-bound and limited leather-bound editions (lighter shade of blue) contain full page glossy paper plates. To the best of my knowledge, all three versions contain all original illustrations. There are quite a number of listings for the cloth-bound edition, and it is usually rather inexpensive - I paid less than $10 for mine.

4SF-72
Oct 12, 12:32pm Top

I'm not quite sure if I got that right: The Folio Society edition doesn't have the full 50 plates by Rackham, is that right? Better quality sounds great, but not if there's only a small part of them.

5teppi2
Oct 12, 1:25pm Top

Sorry, my answer was indeed unclear. The 2004 Folio Society edition of Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens only contains 12 of the 50 Arthur Rackham color plates. The 1906 first edition, the Calla Edition, the Easton DLE and the 1983 Hodder Stoughton edition contain all 50 color plates.

6EclecticIndulgence
Oct 12, 2:07pm Top

This message has been flagged by multiple users and is no longer displayed (show)
>2 astropi:

The poster did not ask about EP and you are still in the FS forum. Stop this constant shoving EP down our throats, you're ruining the FS forum.

7sdawson
Oct 12, 2:28pm Top

>2 astropi: and >3 teppi2:

Thank you very much for letting us know of these options.

8petrosyanmd
Oct 12, 2:43pm Top

Thank you all. Proves that one need to research all the options for a particular book, before buying, at least for collecting porposes. EP edition looks stunning, but already decided to spend the money on the upcoming folio releases. Maybe FS will reissue the peter pan as limited edition, in a series with Cinderella & The Sleeping Beauty?

9thisGuy33
Edited: Oct 12, 9:46pm Top

>6 EclecticIndulgence: I don't understand what is wrong with >2 astropi: offering up a post suggesting the EP release as an option?

I know we live in a very divided post "Trump" vs "the other side" ... world ...

But I think >2 astropi: was just helping let the original poster know there is a current option with all 50 illustrations.

I'll never understand why there is such a war and divide between the "Folio Society" crew and the "Easton Press" gang.

Can't we all just get along

lol

Me personally ... I love equally both my EP and FS books. Sometimes I wish EP would incorporate some of what FS does with their titles and vice versa.

And I consistently read posts here on LT from both the FS and EP groups (the only two groups I currently belong to).

I'm finishing up reading my EP charles dickens Tale of Two Cities and have just started my FS douglas adams Hitchhickers guide to the galaxy ... and I love them both.

Just find it weird ... the polar aggression that I see in some of these posts.

And that's all I got.

And my two cents for the EP Peter Pan offering ... it is fantastic (a bit too pricy) and i absolutely hate how all the illustrations are in the back of the book instead of dispersed throughout. But that said ... it is beautiful to hold and read and I am a huge Arthur Rackham fan so ... I guess I'm biased.

10teppi2
Oct 12, 6:01pm Top

Actually, I think there is a reason why the Easton Press DLE has the color plates at the end, while the Folio Society edition (as well as the 1983 Hodder Stoughton edition) have them dispersed throughout.

I think the Easton Press DLE is based on the first edition from 1906, which indeed had the illustrations at the end. Cover design of the Easton press DLE also matches to this edition.

The Folio Society and 1983 Hodder Stoughton versions are based on the 1912 edition, which had the illustrations throughout the text. Again, their respective cover designs match the 1912 cover.

This raises another question regarding the illustrations: The 1912 edition contained an additional 7 black and white full page illustrations, which were not included in the 1906 edition. Those are included in the Folio Society edition (before page one and on pages 15, 41, 67, 79, 107 and 115). If the Easton Press DLE is indeed exactly based on the 1906 version, it is possible that they are not included there. I do not own the DLE, so I cannot check, though.

11EclecticIndulgence
Oct 12, 7:36pm Top

>9 thisGuy33:
I don't care about someone's publisher preferences.

Just talk about the FS editions in the FS forum
Talk about the EP editions in the EP forum

That way people that do not want to hear about EP do not have to. The OP asked nothing about EP. The post by astropi was yet another in a long history of badgering people about EP at any opportunity.

12jroger1
Edited: Oct 12, 8:41pm Top

>11 EclecticIndulgence:
It’s a simple matter to block a thread or an individual so that you don’t see their posts. The rest of us like to see comparisons that would be impossible to make if each post had to be confined to a single publisher and spread between two or more forums.

13EclecticIndulgence
Oct 12, 8:30pm Top

>12 jroger1:
Blocking a poster doesn't block the myriad of responses on the topic.

For publishers that don't have a forum, post as an OT (off topic) post.
For publishers that do have a forum (Everyman's Library, EP, Folio, etc), post in the correct forum.

It's set-up in LT this way for a reason. Otherwise, there would just be ONE forum for books where anything goes.

14dlphcoracl
Edited: Oct 13, 12:45am Top

>6 EclecticIndulgence:
>11 EclecticIndulgence:
>13 EclecticIndulgence:

Your comments and attitude are way off base. The goal for all of us is to find and add splendid books to our personal collections, many of which will be Folio Society books. Informing the FS faithful of fine & private press editions that may provide a better alternative than current FS offerings - and an FS edition containing only 12 of the 50 Arthur Rackham illustrations is NOT an attractive offering - is of interest to the vast majority of people on this forum, myself included.

If you find these OT posts introducing FS devotees to other wonderful books offensive, just deal with it.

15thisGuy33
Oct 12, 9:42pm Top

>14 dlphcoracl: I couldn't have (and wouldn't want to have) said it any better.

The one thing that draws me to this forum as a whole is ... that I get to read posts and comments from many people who have way more experience and knowledge when it comes to books then I do (I unfortunately have only really been getting into higher end more elegant pressed books within the last year or so ... up till now it's been barnes and noble cheepies).

:)

If I had to read EP forum and then research FS forum to find a complete answer to my question ... I would not spend much time here. The fact that I can post a question and get many voices with many opinions ... continues to expand my palette and introduce me to options that I am usually not even aware of.

So to all of you that continue to share your vast knowledge with those of us that need it ... regardless of what "group" a post is in ... I personally thank you. You have helped me so many times!

For >6 EclecticIndulgence: ... well ... suck it.

hahaha

I am so just kidding!!!!

I have a 6th grade sense of humor.

Hope you maybe see this side of the conversation a little. I do also see yours ... If someone is constantly barraging a group or posts with information in an obnoxious way ... then yes ... they need to stop.

But what I saw here was a helpful post and to me ... it seemed to further the conversation in a positive way.

Anyway ... thank you all for the floor and the time.

:)

16thisGuy33
Oct 12, 9:45pm Top

... oh and ... >10 teppi2: ... thank you for that information about all the differences. I just checked my EP version and it does not have any additional black and white images. Only the tipped in color illustrations in the back of the book.

17tag83
Oct 12, 11:07pm Top

Astropi, just wanted to say I find your posts valuable, please continue. The only thing ruining the FS forum is whining that it should only contain discussion about FS books.

18RecoveringYogi
Oct 13, 1:05am Top

I really wish I had known that FS had only placed 12 out of the 50 illustrations in their edition BEFORE I purchased it last week.

WHY would they do that?

19cwl
Edited: Oct 13, 6:08am Top

This message has been flagged by multiple users and is no longer displayed (show)
This message has been deleted by its author.

20SF-72
Oct 13, 4:49am Top

Thank you very much to everyone who gave us information about the different editions, including Easton Press. It's extremely helpful to know, especially since FS or EP would have been my natural first choices. But it sounds like others are a lot better. So my question to those able to make a comparison would be: Is the Calla or the 1983 Hodder Stoughton better, especially with regard to those extra black and white illustrations and the general quality of the colour illustrations? I'm asking because I already have a version of this book, but find the illustrations quite bleak / colourless compared to photos from other editions I've seen, so I'm looking for something better.

And it's not about Peter Pan, but about Rackham, which we're clearly interested in. So I'd like to ask: I also considered buying EPs Mother Goose due to image quality and completeness of the illustrations. Does anybody here know anything that would suggest this is not a good choice or that there's an equal / better one?

21thisGuy33
Oct 13, 3:17pm Top

> 20 I am equally interested in any info regarding your questions. I actually just discovered "Calla" last night. A friend just text me a picture of a cool book store in Hollywood, CA that he said I would probably want to check out. He said there were a lot of books similar to the "ones I tend to like" ... Leather bound or cloth bound, slip cases, illustrated, premium paper, letterpress.

Long story short ... The picture he text me had a bunch of cool looking books with the name "Calla" on the binding. I was going to research that today.

So to the point of the coincidental twist of this post ... any information on Calla would be much appreciated as well. Do they produce quality like EP and FS or is it more like B&N ... Do they offer versions of say Peter Pan and other Rackham illustrated titles?



22MisterThreeSpeed
Oct 13, 3:32pm Top

Calla editions are published by Dover publications.
http://store.doverpublications.com/by-subject-calla-editions-.html

23SF-72
Oct 13, 3:54pm Top

>21 thisGuy33:

The tricky bit about Calla is that the production quality changed a few years ago, from what I read when they started using another printer. I have a few books by them that I'm happy with. They're decent quality, though not at the level of FS, but then their books are quite cheap, especially for what they offer. But I've also seen editions that I found very disappointing, with inferior quality of the colour illustrations, some of which were rather blurry and printed on paper (the same as for the text) that just didn't work for them. That's why I was hoping that someone here actually has the book and can say something about it. Living in a smalltown in Germany, going into a store and looking at a Calla edition before buying it isn't an option unfortunately.

24thisGuy33
Oct 13, 4:00pm Top

>22 MisterThreeSpeed: ... thank you for that link

>23 SF-72: ... Yeah, I don't know why in my gut I was having a feeling they are more closely resembling a B&N offering. I will post again later my thoughts if I get a chance to swing by that store in the next week or so and check out those Calla offerings. That is definitely one of the benefits to living in bigger towns like Southern California ... we have a lot of opportunities and cool places to explore right in our immediate back yard. Until we fall in the ocean the is.

LoL

25wdripp
Oct 13, 5:16pm Top

>20 SF-72: I don't have the Hodder Stoughton edition of Peter Pan, but do have their reprint of Hansel and Gretel from the same year which has tipped in plates, thick pages, and is leather bound (although it's cheap leather). If their Peter Pan is similar, it is a much nicer edition than Calla's.

>24 thisGuy33: I recently purchased the Calla editions of Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty illustrated by Rackham (as an alternative to the FS LE which was out of my budget) and am satisfied with them. They were both published in 2012 and have minor printing flaws. The other Calla edition I have is A House of Pomegranates by Oscar Wilde. It was published in 2011, and is significantly better quality than the Rackham works. From what I've read it sounds like 2011/2012 was when the quality declined, although I don't have enough Calla books to verify this, and I don't know if they have reprinted older titles with inferior materials.

The link posted in >22 MisterThreeSpeed: has most but not all of the Calla titles (Cinderella is missing, for one), but is a good starting point.

26wcarter
Oct 13, 5:42pm Top

I have a handful of Calla Editions, and they are not nearly as good as FS publications. Just good quality hard cover books, well produced but nothing outstanding.

27thisGuy33
Oct 13, 9:50pm Top

Interesting. So would you say the Calle offerings are similar to B&N offerings. They seem to be in the same price range.

What about "Hodder Stoughton". This is my first hearing of them? What is the good/bad about them? Or any other random information to get someone started when looking for something outside of the more pricy EP/FS.

28teppi2
Edited: Oct 14, 1:03am Top

>20 SF-72: Regarding the seven extra black and white illustrations: I know that the Hodder Stoughton edition contains them, and I am rather certain that the Calla Edition contains them as well. There is a review of the Calla Edition on youtube that shows two of those illustrations, and it seems likely that the others would be included as well.

Regarding quality of plates for the Hodder Stoughton edition: I have taken some pictures that might help. I must be doing something wrong when linking them to the post, as they look tiny. I have for now uploaded the pictures to my gallery, which I believe is publicly accessible. Two pictures are side by side comparisons of a full plate (HS vs Folio). I have also blown up one detail of a plate, both from the Folio and the HS edition. This better highlights possible imperfections of the Hodder Stoughton reproduction and allows you to compare against your own copy. The caption for this plate is: "The fairies sit round on mushrooms, and at first they are well-behaved".

>25 wdripp: The 80's Hodder Stoughton leather bound versions of Hansel and Gretel and Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens (at least the versions I have) are quite comparable. Hansel and Gretel is slightly larger, I think the print quality of the illustrations is slightly better (but that could just be my perception), and the stamped grain of the leather is different. Overall feel/thickness of the leather as well as paper and print quality are nearly identical, though.

It should be noted that one has to be a little careful comparing those editions, though. For its 70s/80s re-prints, Hodder Stoughton frequently did the same book in several different versions - Limited leather bound, unlimited leather bound, Centennial, cloth bound - and they can have random variations from each other, e.g.:
- for Hansel and Gretel, Limited and Unlimited editions are nearly identical, except for the slipcase and the limitation plate.
- for Peter Pan and Wendy, the illustrations are reproduced differently between the limited and unlimited edition, and the leather color and feel is quite different as well.

29wcarter
Oct 14, 12:06am Top

>28 teppi2:
I have the Limited Edition Hansel & Gretel from Hodder & Stoughton, and it easily rivals the FS LE.
Pictures of my copy can be seen here.

30SF-72
Oct 14, 4:07am Top

>25 wdripp:

Thank you very much, it's very good to know that HS is better than Calla.

>28 teppi2:

Thank you very much for the information on the editions and taking these photos. Just to make sure I got it right: Is the bigger book in the two side by side photos the FS or Hodder and Stoughton?

To me the biggest difference judging by the two larger / one edition photos is that FS has better colours, you can clearly see the non-browns as such. My Weathervane edition isn't particularly good with the colours, unfortunately. It looks pretty much like the HS photo in this regard. Ideally FS would do a limited edition with all the Rackham illustrations since they clearly did things right with regard to the colour illustrations, but I doubt that will happen since they already have another edition.

31teppi2
Oct 14, 8:02am Top

>30 SF-72: The bigger book in the side by side photos is the Folio Society edition.

32SF-72
Oct 14, 11:40am Top

>31 teppi2:

Thank you very much.

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