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Leftists are not afriad of monsters. But as there are few leftists around, let's focus on liberals.

Pro and Con

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1RickHarsch
Jul 11, 7:00pm Top

As the couple of threads that tend to go on and on about liberals rarely mention leftists, much less ideas, I thought this might be a more accurate thread title.

2johnthefireman
Edited: Jul 14, 1:44am Top

>1 RickHarsch: as there are few leftists around

Well, I'm not afraid to acknowledge myself to be broadly leftist, left of centre politically, albeit with the proviso that all labels are inadequate as most of us have a spectrum of views on different issues which do not fall neatly into one political category, and perhaps the added proviso that in practice I favour a form of mixed economy such as UK and much of northern Europe practiced in my younger days before the current rightward swing. But maybe I'm part of the "few"? Incidentally, being part of the "few" is highly regarded in British mythology, praised by Henry V at Agincourt and Winston Churchill at the Battle of Britain!

For me the key ideal is the "common good", which is a foundation of Catholic Social Thought, on which many of my values are based. It seems to me that much of right wing philosophy is based on the perceived good of the ruling class, the rich, the capitalists, the dominant identity groups. If there is any nod to the common good it is the (discredited) "trickle down theory", which pretends that making the rich richer and/or protecting their interests will benefit the poor and middle classes. Noblesse oblige, "nobility obligates", was the unwritten obligation of people from the upper classes to act honorably and generously to their inferiors. Whereas left wing philosophy (at its best, and I'll be the first to acknowledge that it often doesn't live up to it) is based on the good of all, including people who are not part of the dominant group, or of "my group", and particularly caring about institutional and systemic inequalities which reduce the opportunities of the poor, disadvantaged, marginalised and oppressed. For me there is no question as to which of these two philosophies to follow.

3RickHarsch
Jul 14, 5:20pm Top

Can you repeat that, Limelite?

4RickHarsch
Jul 14, 8:42pm Top

StormRaven insists on continuing to respond in that inanely titled thread by, I think accidentally, doubting you (I think he meant to doubt the other interlocutor.

5lriley
Jul 14, 9:56pm Top

There is really no settled definition or at least not in the United States--for me it's a way of putting at least a little distance between myself and someone who might call himself a democrat or a liberal. The thing for me is you can't really be a leftist and be taking money from a Wall St. banker or not respond at all to those who do. It's just never okay...and one can't blindly rubber stamp hawkish American foreign policy endeavors either. One of the other things is that all are equal and it doesn't matter gender, race, sexual persuasion, language we speak, where we were born--we're all breathing the same air, living on the same planet and should have a share of the wealth of this earth. Somehow it doesn't work out that way though because people are always exploiting others and especially in this so-called land of the free with the highest incarceration rate of any nation on earth. Maybe what it is is just a lack of political pragmatism on my part though--I don't know. I'm not perfect but I think if you want to be a politico and represent people in congress or the Senate or as POTUS you have to have some kind of fucking standards.

Anyway Ocasio-Cortez and Omar I would consider as left politicians and not too many others. In Europe or elsewhere maybe they would be moderates more than leftists. We're a right wing country though.

6proximity1
Jul 15, 1:55pm Top


this thread, also, and first, known as

"Lefties are so cute, how they think the monsters they create won't eat them."


Now tendentiously re-titled as seen the top of the page.

7RickHarsch
Jul 15, 2:51pm Top

>6 proximity1:
tendentious, meaning, roughly, biased...

Leftists are not afriad of monsters--misspelled afraid. Sorry. There are few leftists around, so let's focus on liberals. Is that biased?

8RickHarsch
Edited: Jul 15, 2:55pm Top

Interestingly, proximity did not openly object to this thread, based on his geographical confusion: https://www.librarything.com/topic/308785

(I still laugh when I think of his lake in Russia and his link to the Aral Sea...)

9Limelite
Edited: Jul 16, 11:38pm Top

>3 RickHarsch:

Not sure what you want me to repeat, but as long as it doesn't require me to mention God/Jesus as a ruler of my conscience or a scapegoat for my behavior, I'll try. What did you have in mind?

Before the Nation voted the second most qualified candidate for president into office in 2008 (Hillary being the most qualified of all candidates), I called myself the Last Living Liberal. Since Obama's presidency, I was relieved to discover that we are not an extinct political orientation.

I am also a leftist to anything compared to Republicans and Independents since each Republican president and elected official since Eisenhower has endeavored and many times succeeded in moving the country to the right until now only outright fascism is to the right of where we find ourselves. With Trump, the journey rightward is being completed.

So, anyone not a Trumpster is, logically, a "leftist." I am, however, right-handed.

10davidgn
Edited: Jul 16, 3:01pm Top

>8 RickHarsch: Perhaps he should try his luck at locating Kitezh.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bells_from_the_Deep#Embellishments)

11RickHarsch
Jul 16, 5:02pm Top

>9 Limelite: just trying to get the threat back to a sane title

12JGL53
Edited: Jul 21, 3:11pm Top

> 9 ".....Before the Nation voted the second most qualified candidate for president into office in 2008 (Hillary being the most qualified of all candidates)..."

Best laugh I have had all day.

Thanks, Limey.

13johnthefireman
Jul 22, 7:53am Top

This might be of interest not only to "leftists" and "liberals" but to moderates and centrists of all persuasions:

What type of fascism is driving the far right today? (Al Jazeera)

Fascism today aims to transform democratic systems from within, rendering it more dangerous than its past incarnations

14Limelite
Jul 23, 5:58pm Top

>12 JGL53:

It took almost everything I had to write that satire about "second most qualified." In re Hillary Clinton's qualifications, I am sincere. She is the best qualified candidate to run in my voting lifetime, including Barack Obama.

I am an opponent to the movement that has taken over Republicans and conservatives to elect the dumbest amongst us, which they invariably do. Perhaps in an effort to feel like they can have a beer with the president? Now there's a quality for that office. SNARK! No thanks, I don't want a beer with my president. I want the smartest, most intellectual, thoughtful, and experienced person in the room to be prez. Whatever the room and whoever's in it.

Repubs, Evangelicals, and misogynists gave us orange floor scrapings in 2016, with the organized assistance of their Russian puppetmasters. Nothing beneath contempt is beneath a Trumpist, reference Trump.

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