THE DEEP ONES: "Same Time, Same Place" by Mervyn Peake

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THE DEEP ONES: "Same Time, Same Place" by Mervyn Peake

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2semdetenebre
Nov 18, 2019, 9:42 am

I read this out of Peake's Progress.

3AndreasJ
Nov 19, 2019, 1:53 pm

Just read it from The Weird. That book's one good investment.

4elenchus
Edited: Nov 20, 2019, 12:47 pm

Also The Weird for me.

VanderMeer's intro prompted the comparison to Leonora Carrington, and in this case I find it a fitting comparison. The 20c urban setting, the isolation of a person in a new place, the visit to an unfamiliar building and encounters with the tenants -- all these remind me of Carrington's "White Rabbits" story which we read earlier.

I was anticipating something more sinister and inexplicable than the carneys. Reminds me of a novel I've long had on my TBR list, Geek Love.

5semdetenebre
Edited: Nov 20, 2019, 7:46 pm

It's not quite done in the memorable prose style that Peake is justly famous for in the Gormenghast books, but I still enjoyed the evocation of hopeless yearning in the protagonist as he makes his rather feeble attempt to escape the dreariness of his home life for something more exciting. I also liked the feeling that something was just not right with his paramour early on - not being able to touch her feet with his under the table was somehow a bit troubling.

Browning's 1932 film FREAKS had only just begun it's decades-delayed revival thanks to a 1962 Cannes showing, so I think that the impact of the freaks here carried much more weight back when it was written. I still found them to be suitably macabre and menacing. And the... head... and its means of moving about were left sufficiently vague enough to provide a bit of a weird aura to events. How could it not remind me of "Harry the Head" by The Residents?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dFukfz65pU

6elenchus
Nov 20, 2019, 1:03 pm

>5 semdetenebre: And the... head... and it's means of moving about were left sufficiently vague enough to provide a bit of a weird aura to events.

The logistics were left vague to good effect, of course. It wouldn't have served the story to provide too detailed a description, either at the time or in retrospect. Still I'm left with some questions: the protagonist's paramour has a hand, she reaches across the table at one point and he appears to hold her hand regularly over the eight days of their tryst. So she is more than a head, though it's unclear whether she has dwarfism (and feet without limbs?), or some other condition. But setting all that aside, what to make of the fact there was another gentleman sitting at table when the boy first meets the woman? Was there an effort to woo this person, or was he merely sharing a table without any interaction? Is the woman in any sense luring people as victims, or was she sincere in her attentions?

Again, it's clear the main point is almost an impressionist portrait of a young man's frustration leading to danger and self-repression. It's easily argued the other characters are a foil for that main plot, nothing more. Yet his choice of specifics (the restaurant, the carneys) makes me wonder if Peake was getting at something else, as well.

7AndreasJ
Nov 20, 2019, 3:19 pm

I was strongly reminded of an earlier DO read, namely Sansom’s “A Woman Seldom Found”, which also has a young man aimlessly wandering a big city and encountering a woman too good to be true.

I did find myself wondering how mentally hinged our narrator was already before the events recounted; even apart from the dubious sanity of running away like he did , he’s 23yo, lives with his parents , expects to inherit the firm, but apparently isn’t expected to work in it. A neurasthenic invalid?

8pgmcc
Nov 20, 2019, 5:33 pm

That was a joy to read as it proved to be a trip down memory lane for me. It was only after reading the first page that I realised I had read the story in the late 1960s when I was in my early teens. One of my older brothers had a few collections of horror stories they were my first introduction to the weird and the wonderful. This was one of the stories that I read and which has stayed with me all those years. I never noted the name of the author but I have thought of this story many times.

I remember thinking at the time that the protagonist was a dreadful person for abandoning his love regardless of her form or nature, or that of her friends.

Before I recognised the story I was taken by the thoughts of the young man. It was of particular relevance to me as our twenty-three year old son is still living with us. The saving points for our situation is that I do not have a moustache and have not smoked since 1982. Also, my wife's shoes are not worn on the outer side of the heel.

The story reminded me of a comical website called Despaircom. It described itself and the professional website dedicated to the spread of de-motivation. It had a video in which a manager hassled by employee complaints launches an, "It could be worse" campaign. He did things like leaving a page on the photocopier that was a letter from an outsourced service provider. This story reminded me of that video with our young protagonist having his own "it could be worse" experience.

My euphoria at finding a story that I had enjoyed so long ago (guts of 50 years ago) may have coloured my view of this story but I would like to thank the group for helping me find this story that has stayed with me all these years.

>7 AndreasJ: I too wondered at the mental state of the young man, especially after his return when it would appear he began to suffer from agoraphobia.

>5 semdetenebre: Gormenghast is one of my favourite books. I have not explored many other works of Peake's although I have read Mr Pye.

By the way, I read this from "The Weird" collection. I have had this book for a number of years and I think this is the first story I have read from it. Now that I have cracked it open I will be enjoying more of its treasures. Quite an amazing collection.

9semdetenebre
Edited: Nov 21, 2019, 9:53 am

>6 elenchus:

Good point about the previous gentleman. Was he just an acquaintance (one of the freaks, maybe) or another suitor? Perhaps the narrator simply won out because he was younger and handsomer and foolish enough to propose first. Or maybe, as you note, there is something more sinister happening. If this scenario occurred before, what happened to those men? The ending of FREAKS does come to mind. They're a pretty vindictive crowd over a case of false advertising, in that case.

>8 pgmcc:

That's great that you've become reacquainted with "Same Time, Same Place" after all this time! Interesting that your more idealized teenage take was decidedly not in the narrator's favor.

The father's mustache and the worn shoes are the kind of odd details of character that you expect from this author. For some reason I have a kind of Pavlovian urge to re-read the Gormenghast books every holiday season. Maybe Peake is just my Dickens!

10elenchus
Nov 21, 2019, 10:08 am

Gormenghast is also one of my favourites, though I've not re-read despite it cropping up perennially. I chased down two Overlook editions (the 3-volume as well as the single volume versions), and watched the old BBC adaptation, but haven't yet re-read what started it all. And if memory serves, there's another BBC adaptation coming?

>9 semdetenebre:
I've been meaning to re-read Dickens, too. There is something about Autumn that stokes the fires for those authors for me.

11AndreasJ
Nov 21, 2019, 10:36 am

I didn't greatly enjoy the Gormenghast books when I read them back in my teens, and actually gave up in the middle of the second one when the library wanted it back before I'd finished it. I sometimes wonder if I ought give them another chance - would I appreciate them better as an adult?

(From the PoV of a couple decades later, giving up on a book because I didn't finish it within four weeks seems weird, but I, of course, had more time and less responsibilities then, and tended to plow through books at a rate I can only dream of now.)

>8 pgmcc:

Starting to read a story to realize a bit in that you actually read it years or decades before is one of the more pleasant effects of the imperfection of human memory. It's happened to me at least twice, both with authors relevant to this group: H.P. Lovecraft ("The Outsider") and Lord Dunsany (a selection of short stories in translation). Both read in my early teens, when I had no idea who either author was and generally didn't pay much attention to author names, then rediscovered as I got into Lovecraft and, via him, Dunsany in my twenties.

12semdetenebre
Edited: Nov 21, 2019, 11:24 am

>11 AndreasJ:

The mass-market Ballantine paperbacks were beautiful, but they kind of gave the impression that something along the lines of Eddison or even Tolkien was at hand when the books are actually completely free of magic and dragons. One reason I'm glad that I first read them in my late 20s is that I was much more accepting of that. In fact, it was a pleasant surprise! I was suffering from high fantasy fiction burnout by that point. If I had read it any earlier, however, I can well imagine I would have canned it, too. As it was, I was blown away by Peake's prose and each and every memorably grotesque character. In my head, Fuchsia will always be an honorary Shakespearean heroine, it's that good. I've never read anything quite like it. So, I'd definitely give it another try!

13pgmcc
Edited: Nov 21, 2019, 3:10 pm

>9 semdetenebre:
My favourite book in Gormenghast was the second, "Gormenghast". There were two things I particularly liked, the characters of the teachers, and the unexpected similes Peake surprised the reader with.

I can understand your seasonal desire to re-read Gormenghast; it does have as seasonal feel to it.

It would have been the 1990s when I first read Gormenghast. I would have been in my mid to late thirties. it was the first book I had every read in which the use of language and the characterisation overwhelmed me and left the actual story in an insignificant third place. It opened my mind to greater appreciation of literature and its many facets.

14pgmcc
Nov 21, 2019, 3:03 pm

>11 AndreasJ:
...is one of the more pleasant effects of the imperfection of human memory.

I agree wholeheartedly. Like yourself, I have had that particular experience more than once.