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Discussion - Episode 403: "He That Believeth In Me" (SPOILERS)

Battlestar Galactica

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1fannyprice
Apr 2, 2008, 7:20pm Top

A place to discuss Episode 403: "He That Believeth In Me", which premiers in the US on 4 April and the UK on 8 April, according to BattlestarWiki. Spoilers are to be expected.

2fyrefly98
Apr 3, 2008, 3:11pm Top

For those of you who (like me) can't wait the extra ten hours:

"Exclusive Battlestar Galactica Season 4 Premiere

SCI FI makes an unprecedented move for the season premiere of a television show by giving Battlestar Galactica fans a 9-hour jump to catch the hotly anticipated show via a live stream on SCI FI.COM. On Friday, April 4th at Noon EST, eager viewers will have one opportunity to see the full episode before its broadcast premiere. In the episode titled He That Believeth in Me, the thin line that separates humanity from the rapidly evolving Cylons is redrawn as Starbuck returns from the dead with claims that she has found planet Earth."

From: http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=20080318scifi05

EEEEEEeeeeeEEEE!

Ahem. Sorry.

3littlegeek
Apr 3, 2008, 3:13pm Top

I know, I have to tell my hubby because he has to do something that night.

Let's see, I'll watch it at lunch time, I'll watch it with my husband after work, I'll watch it on tv....

omg I've lost my mind completely.

4fyrefly98
Apr 3, 2008, 3:19pm Top

Apparently it's a one-shot streaming deal, so you have to go to the site AT NOON - if you show up at 12:05, you miss the first five minutes, no going back. FYI.

This is good, since I'm probably going to be watching it again with friends when it actually airs - friends who I love, but who are incapable of shutting up and actually watching something. Plus there will be a BSG drinking game (Tigh starts a sentence with "What the hell?" - DRINK!) and BSG "Stump the Robot" (me) Trivia - since I've watched the whole thing through more times than is really good for me. :) In any case, will be nice to actually see it when I can pay attention to it.

5littlegeek
Apr 3, 2008, 3:33pm Top

Wait, so it's only once, and you have to be on the East coast to see it? Who's going to be around at 9 am to watch tv.

That sucks.

6fyrefly98
Apr 3, 2008, 3:37pm Top

Wait, so it's only once, and you have to be on the East coast to see it?

As I understand it, the preview is a live stream (so West Coast folks would have to roll out of bed and onto their computers at 9 am, yes), and not hosted on the site for watching at your convenience - although I imagine once it airs on actual TV it will probably be available to watch on the site again.

7littlegeek
Apr 3, 2008, 3:42pm Top

Roll out of bed would be no problem, but I'm a grownup and I have a job.

frak!

8fyrefly98
Apr 3, 2008, 3:47pm Top

Ah, yes, there is that. I'm a grad student; I vaguely remember hearing of this "job" concept of which you speak. :)

I did hear that there's a nasty case of short-lived 2-hour Friday-morning flu going around....

9littlegeek
Apr 3, 2008, 3:54pm Top

I think I feel a tickle in my throat....

10fannyprice
Apr 3, 2008, 5:41pm Top

God, I was wondering how you guys could be discussing this episode already. I thought you all had a secret connection or something. :)

11avaland
Apr 5, 2008, 9:35am Top

So, let's see, what is there new to discuss. . .SPOILER ALERT!!!!

Nice bit of humor there in the scene where Gaius is feeling God's presence. Great fake-out when Tighe imagines shooting Adama (I know I stop breathing in that moment). We know Kara is not going to kill the Prez. Obviously, Gaius is going to start believing in his own 'power', being the meglomaniac that he is. My husband and I were having some discussion over that bit with Anders and the Raider. I posited that the raider read some instruction from Anders (which he was unconscious of) to retreat. I don't think it was just a 'recognition', per se; unless the raider is programmed to do that when they recognize one of the final five . . .

I was thinking that it would be great if Kara turned out to be a cylon in the same way that Tighe has - especially after the comment to Anders that if she found out he was a cylon, she'd put a bullet through his head. She's a perfect candidate if the powers-that-be keep to their current female cylon profile. BUT, that said, they are suggesting the final cylon might be someone special apart from the other four and I don't think her character can pull that off. But, hey, surprise me.

And how to explain Kara and her brand spankin' new ship ... hmmm.

12fyrefly98
Apr 5, 2008, 10:41am Top

I posited that the raider read some instruction from Anders (which he was unconscious of) to retreat.

I admit, I squealed with excitement when his pupil flashed red. So cool! And I agree that the communication went Anders -> Raider, not the other way around. (Cue the Obi-Wan voice: "This is not the fleet you're looking for...")

Any thoughts on what Lee's mysterious job in the government is? Since this is maybe 24-48 hours after he called Roslin out on the stand and helped get Baltar freed, I have the feeling that she's not the one knocking on his door. My guess is that the "feelers" are coming from Zarek, possibly priming Lee for a VP position if/when Roslin dies from cancer (Pythia's ambiguous, but hasn't been wrong yet, so I don't think Roslin's going to see Earth.) But, of course, this plays into my Zarek's-the-final-Cylon theory.

13littlegeek
Apr 5, 2008, 2:16pm Top

I agree about Lee working for Zarek. Roslin isn't too pleased with Lee right now. Roslin is not someone I'd want for an enemy, especailly when she's doing chemo. Cranky!

Why isn't anyone questioning how cozy Roslin has gotten with the known cylons on the ship? And, the Dylon Four better quit with the significant looks; dead giveaway.

I love James Callis. The Cult of Baltar just make so much sense given his character. I agree with avaland, he's going to start believing his own hype, and it'll get him into trouble.

Poor Anders! kara is such a beotch to him! If you were a cylon, I'd put a bullet right between your eyes. Ouch. and then she pistol whips him.

How did she know that Roslin was in Adama's quarters? Is this another mind frak hallucination?

I have to watch it again.

14fannyprice
Apr 5, 2008, 3:04pm Top

Did you all like the episode, overall? I have to admit, it felt a little flat to me, especially the opening battle scenes. It didn't feel as intense as past battles.

Its odd to me that Starbuck used to be one of my favorite characters and now I find myself getting a little annoyed with how much screen time she gets overall, especially compared to some of the other allegedly major characters. It made sense to have this episode be a Starbuck-centered episode, I guess.

I just feel like one of the things that I used to love so much about the show was that all the characters seemed like they had a story to tell and a role to play. Now it seems like its all "Kara Thrace and her special destiny." (Sounds like a bad cover band, as Starbuck herself said at one point.) This season I want to see more of Helo & Athena, definitely more of the Final Four, I want Lee to become a real character (ok, maybe that's a little harsh, he has had some interesting moments.

I did LOVE the Baltar stuff in this episode - when he walked into that room and you started noticing that almost everyone in it was a young, attractive woman & they were all so into him....you just knew that Baltar was in trouble. I love how the producers/writers have done his character - every time it looks like he might learn something or get some humility, he just goes off on another ego-trip. But I did think it was amazing how he really seemed genuine & willing to sacrifice himself so that the little boy could live. James Callis is truly an amazing actor - to take someone who is so morally bankrupt that they betrayed the human race for some nookie & to somehow continually provoke sympathy for that character... Amazing.

What struck me in this episode is that its curious how Roslin has done so much on a hunch - usually a drug-induced religious hunch - and how she has continually used Starbuck in those hunches and now Roslin is completely unwilling to believe Starbuck. I mean, I guess its a big risk to take, especially given that they still kinda think Starbuck is a cylon or brain-washed or something. But still, it was funny that Roslin was all like "You're going to trust a her feeling?" Seems like the Fleet has done a lot on feeling before.

I will have to re-watch the episode and see if I like it more a second time. Very excited for next Friday - honestly, I can't stand waiting a whole week for another taste of this show!

15avaland
Apr 5, 2008, 3:52pm Top

I really hope they aren't out to make Zarek any kind of major player. Maybe his character would've been more interesting if they had someone playing it who didn't look like he's a grown up 70s boy right out of prep school (or my high school yearbook).

I was thinking how much I admire the acting of James Edward Olmos and how much character is in that face. That close-up scene with Starbuck was great.

Yeah, I agree, Fanny, Starbuck is a whole lot less interesting to me these days.

16fannyprice
Apr 5, 2008, 3:54pm Top

>15 avaland:, Hehe. I always think of something that I heard or remember hearing that Ron Moore said. Something like he liked to give people what they wanted, but "in the worst possible way." That's what I think of when I think of more and more Starbuck.

17littlegeek
Apr 5, 2008, 6:40pm Top

Roslin really isn't making sense to me here....unless, as someone else on another blog mentioned, she's not wanting Starbuck to take away her "dying leader" status. It could just be a catfight.

james Callus = awesome. He & Hogan are the best actors. I like EJO, except he over does the husky whispery voice a little too much for my taste. I think Bamber is the weakest actor of the main characters.

18littlegeek
Apr 6, 2008, 1:58am Top

OK, I've been mulling over the Anders eye contact with Raider thing and I just don't get it. Sharon fights raiders all the time. The chrome toasters let her walk on by when she went down on NC to get the launch keys, but no recognition/obey from Raiders for her.

Does this mean something or is it a plothole?

19kawika
Edited: Apr 6, 2008, 3:35am Top

Sharon is also not one of the five and can regenerate. There is plenty of speculation that the Five cannot be reborn.

I'm pretty much sold on it being a switch thing. *click*recognition*order given*click*flip switch back*click*order that was given is forgotten/tucked away*

What I'm interested in is seeing how this relates to the demand for the raiders to stop being gimped. Oh yeah, and how/when they slipped Tigh into service.

20avaland
Apr 6, 2008, 9:53am Top

Perhaps the 7 don't know it's the 5 who are calling off the raiders? Therefore, the 7 would look to each other for the culprit...

21littlegeek
Apr 6, 2008, 11:44am Top

I don't buy the "they can't regenerate" thing, it's too implausible. It's amazing to me what becomes "fanon" and how easily, given how little we know about the final five. Remember how it was "proven" that Tigh couldn't be a cylon?

The point I was making was: why doesn't Sharon just "click*recognition*order given*click, etc. when she encounters Raiders every day? She can do it on centurians.

22fyrefly98
Edited: Apr 6, 2008, 12:01pm Top

We don't know much about the final five, but there's got to be *something* to differentiate them from the 7 - and the not having multiple copies/not being able to regenerate is up there on the list of possible potential differences.

Doesn't Sharon pilot a Raptor, still? I don't think we've ever seen her in a Viper. So she's probably not directly facing off against Raiders all that often...

23littlegeek
Apr 6, 2008, 12:20pm Top

People are treating the "cant regenerate" as true. It's just too implausible to me that the Dylan 4 just happened to survive the original genocide. I'm sure the differences are something much more compelling. I think the Final Five are more powerful than the Seven, and not being able to do something the Seven can makes them less.

Another assumption people are making is that the last cylon is the same kind, or in league with the Dylan 4. We don't know that for sure. Could be another totally different animal.

24kawika
Apr 6, 2008, 12:25pm Top

You mean like a Daggit? :D

25fyrefly98
Apr 6, 2008, 12:42pm Top

the last cylon is the same kind, or in league with the Dylan 4. We don't know that for sure.

I don't know, the fact that the final five are consistently treated as a unit (in the minds of the seven, in the temple, in the opera house, etc.) pretty strongly suggests to me that they're all equivalent. Had they been standing four in the back or one in front, or something, that would argue differently. We don't know anything for sure until they tell us, of course, but I think the evidence thus far supports all five being the same kind.

Which is also why I think the fifth of the five can't have been on Galactica when they reached the nebula at the end of S3 - they would have been flipped by the same trigger.

26littlegeek
Apr 6, 2008, 12:50pm Top

Unless they were already aware. Or in "the space between life & death" like it's Cain or something.

ha, kaw. ;-) If they bring back the daggit, I'll never watch again. So glad they killed Boxey in the miniseries, the little brat.

27chamekke
Edited: Apr 6, 2008, 11:00pm Top

#14 I did LOVE the Baltar stuff in this episode - when he walked into that room and you started noticing that almost everyone in it was a young, attractive woman & they were all so into him....

I seriously wondered whether this was inspired by the "Castle Anthrax" scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Except that here, of course, it's Castle Viral Encephalitis...

"I'm afraid our life must seem very dull and quiet compared to yours. We are but eightscore young blondes, all between sixteen and nineteen-and-a-half, cut off behind this bulkhead, with no one to protect us. Oooh. It is a lonely life ... bathing ... dressing ... undressing ... making devotional altars...."

We'll know for sure if any of them turns out to be named Zoot, Winston or Piglet.

And on a more serious note, re: Kara and the condition of that Viper? My own guess is that she travelled via wormhole, and that there was some time travel or time-reversal involved that "youthified" the ship to its original state - or rather, the condition it was in when first built. Of course this implies an Intelligence behind it all, since the ship wasn't reduced to its truly original state of unrefined metal ores and so forth. Then the question becomes, why wasn't Kara's age (apparently) affected? Either it's because she's organic (and whatever aging-reversal process took place somehow exempted organic tissue), OR because she's actually one of the Five Hidden Cylons and she's looked like this for a very, very long time.

Incidentally, like littlegeek, I'm not assuming that the last Cylon is the same kind of animal as the others. There's a reason that D'Anna stopped in front of the fifth Cylon in astonishment, and it may not purely be a matter of personal recognition. (After all, she might have been equally surprised to have seen Tigh in the lineup, too.)

28avaland
Apr 6, 2008, 8:01pm Top

>maybe I've read too much SF, but I wouldn't find the 'youthified' theory plausible, for exactly the reason you bring up - because she was in the viper and wasn't 'youthified' (clearly she was affected in some way as shown by every jump they make...).

I think the final five are probably more human that the seven. That might mean they are mortal. Wonder if Tory's spine lights up... They had best explain how Tigh can be a cylon when he dates back to Toaster time... (and it had better be good).

I'm so hoping they are not just going to tweak us all season and then wrap it all up stupidly or simplistically.

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