Just preparing. . .

I suggest only using a month by month to avoid the downloading lag that is experienced near the end. Maybe more folks can include photos/images that way.

Have people started using images on the what are you reading thread? I hadn't noticed. What I would suggest then is to start using this thread and if, indeed, the thread is full of images or over 200 posts, someone can start a new thread for February.

Looks like I will still be reading The January Dancer by Michael Flynn and The Devil's Eye by Jack McDevitt, though I do have the third book by Kat Richardson, Underground, coming from Amazon on Friday. I was supposed to get an ARC of Patient Zero by Jonathan Maberry, but it never arrived. My TBR pile is getting pretty thin. Maybe I will finally get around to reading Little Brother by Cory Doctorow or Red Seas under Red Skies by Scott Lynch

About halfway through Butler's Survivor. After I'd started, I saw the Wikipedia entry about how this is the only book she didn't want reprinted in the Patternist series. I understand her point but I still think it's a better book (at the halfway point) than most of its contemporaries.

I'm not really sure the book I'm reading is sf, but if it's not that then I don't know what category it is. I'm reading Mainspring by Jay Lake. It's set in Victorian times in a British-ruled North America. The Earth, the sun, the solar system, the universe, all run by clockwork mechanisms. The storyline is a bit heavy on the religious aspect at times, but I love Lake's invention of the world. The language is very evocative and the descriptions of how the world works are fascinating. It's very enjoyable so far.

#4 kd9, I read Red Seas under Red Skies by Scott Lynch which is book two in the Gentleman Bastards, don't you just love that for a series name. It is more fantasy though the world seems slightly mechanical, not steampunk, or a great deal of tech, more like what the shopkeepers of Nuremburg and the watchmakers of Switzerland might come up with engineering wise. Since it is book 2, make sure you read The Lies of Locke Lamora first. I highly endore each.

I started Ender's Game this afternoon. Even though he is not a SF fan, my son read and recommended it to me.

the new weird a very mixed bag of stories linked (one is told) by the "new weird" POV in all its weird manifestations. Some v good and some tedious SF/fantasy. wtf. A book sale purchase, so that's fine.

I have The Hunger Games sitting on my bookshelf, staring forlornly at me as it waits for my lunch break so I can dig my teeth into it. Mmm.

I just finished The Devils Eye by Jack McDevitt, A good light read. This was was more of a mystery with a Space setting.

I'm reading Nancy Kress' new collection Nano Comes To Clifford Falls right now, very excelent. Up next I am going to finally tackle the Revelation Space series by Reynolds. From all I've heard, I'm very excited.

>#4 - kd9: I highly reccomend Little Brother, it's in my top five of my 2007 reads.

{Edit: Durr, I meant 2008 reads!}

Message edited by its author, Jan 2, 2009, 7:39pm.

I just finished Woken Furies by Richard K. Morgan and now I am afraid of withdrawal symptoms since there are no more Takeshi Kovacs novels!!

Do you think we could strap Morgan to a gurney, feed him a hypnotic cocktail through an I.V. and hook him up to some of bobmcconnaughey's transcription software? That way we could squeeze him like a tube of toothpaste and get more T. Kovacs novels out him at a faster rate perhaps? {Maybe I shoulda been a publisher!}



I am also reading The New Space Opera, a collection of short stories I saw touted here, and I am enjoying that. I don't buy into the "Space Opera" as a genre {I know, no one is waiting for my approval!} but it works well for this collection and the biographical introductions of the authors that preface each story are interesting.

Message edited by its author, Jan 2, 2009, 8:33pm.

Righteous Blood arrived the other day so I am going to get into that this weekend. Other than that the books I'm perusing are history books, or legal texts.

I just finished Scalzi's Old Man's War and found it a good and relatively light read. He certainly has a good touch with dialogue. I'm starting Peter Hamilton's Judas Unchained. I just love those space operas! Happy reading all!

#11 davisfamily - I, too, recently read The Devil's Eye. I like Jack McDevitt's books very much.

#8 Vic33 - Ender's Game is one of my all time favorites! I hope you enjoy it.

> #7 Thanks, DWWilkin. I loved The Lies of Locke Lamora. I used to go around at conventions preaching at people to Read This Book Now. Bought Red Seas under Red Skies when it first came out, read 30 pages, put it down, carried it all over for several months and haven't picked it up again. I don't want to not like it, but I'm almost afraid to read it now. Have to get it read soonly because his third book will be out this year.

> #11, #16 Almost finished with The Devil's Eye. Meh. I love Jack McDevitt, even interviewed him at a convention in San Diego, but this particular book -- not so much.

>#12 Yeah, I loved Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom, but I am not sure I am up for the teen angst and politics that Little Brother holds.

Next book has to be Patient Zero because I just got my ARC copy and want to be in good standing with the Early Reviewers.

I just started The Caryatids. For review.

You are just making people (well me) jealous. You know it isn't published for a month or two yet.

I am looking forwards to Necrophenia by Robert Rankin which I should have in my hands on Monday. Until then I will probably be reading Star Rider by Doris Piserchia.

You are just making people (well me) jealous. You know it isn't published for a month or two yet.

Yup :-)

I also have conduct an email interview with Sterling about the book too.

Oh, good! More Bruce Sterling. I'll look forward to that.

I'm belatedly reading Zoe's Tale by John Scalzi, which I got as an ER book. I would have read it sooner, but class reading really bogged me done for a bit. I'm not big on teen tales, but so far this one is ok. I didn't read Old Man's War which I understand is another tale about the same thing, but not required as a precursor.

From the tail end of the previous quarters "What are you reading?" Rojse?

"I have just read the four books in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series. The series did have it's moments...... Surely there are better humorous SF novels than this?"

If there are better humorous SF novels I would like to hear about them. I especially liked the BBC radio production of the series it was incredibly funny. I think I have a few tapes around somewhere. They must have been mentioned in the "SF on the radio" topic.

Message edited by its author, Jan 4, 2009, 11:20pm.

I just picked up Michael Chabon's Gentlemen of the Road. Looking forward to giving it a go.

#13 DugsBooks

Do you think we could strap Morgan to a gurney, feed him a hypnotic cocktail through an I.V. and hook him up to some of bobmcconnaughey's transcription software? That way we could squeeze him like a tube of toothpaste and get more T. Kovacs novels out him at a faster rate perhaps? {Maybe I shoulda been a publisher!}

Morgan has said on his website/blog that he will never write Kovacs again. He apparently gets a lot of email from people who want more. I have no idea if he really means no Kovacs ever, or if he just won't repeat what he did with the previous 3 books.

I just finished Hot and Sweaty Rex by Eric Garcia
The last of the Rex books about a PI in the modern day who happens to be a dinosaur. They never went extinct, instead they evolved, went into hiding, and live among us in latex people suits.

I have to read Radio Freefall by Matthew Jarpe for a RL book group this month. He is a new author. It says its like Moon is a Harsh Mistress only set on earth, updated, and with Rock & Roll and maybe Cyber Punk ?

i made the mistake of buying radio freefall, in hardcover. Badly written w/ Jethro Tull evidently being the major "rock" influence. Gave up after 70 pages. As Heinlein was used as a positive comparison, i should've known better.

I almost never buy books in HC, even if they are discounted. So my copy is a PB.

The author is a friend of the group leader, hence the choice. Jarpe may also be attending the meeting if it works with his schedule.

I am not surprised to hear its dodgy, it seemed like it would be.

#23

I did get a few laughs from the Hitchhiker's series, but I felt that the humour seemed to be overshadowed by clumsy writing, particularly from the second book onwards. The book was too full of coincidences, even when Zaprod was not using the ship with the improbability drive, and major plot points were not explained, or were introduced two pages before they were required.

Someone have any suggestions for humorous SF?

Right now I'm into Kim Harrison's "Rachel Morgan" (The Hollows) series on my Kindle, now on the second book, The Good, the Bad, and the Undead.

I just finished reading Octavia E. Butler's Bloodchild and other stories in dead-tree version and I've downloaded samples of Lilith's Brood and Fledgling to my Kindle. I'll probably take a look at these when I'm done with The Hollows.

Also, I've been meaning for some time to get around to Stars: Original Stories Based on the Songs of Janis Ian, of which I've for some time had a copy autographed by Janis.

I'm reading one of my Christmas gifts, a Sector General omnibus by James White, Alien Emergencies, which includes Ambulance Ship, Sector General, and Star Healer. I am infilling my collection of White's books.

#30 Sector General is awesome. Another of the series I have read and in the case of Hospital Station itself, reread along with some of the others in the canon. I know that this is one of the earliest books I have as I stole it from my mother before I was a teenager. One of my first quarter books has been The Light Ages which I am glad it is over. Now onto something else.

30,31 - I really like White's Sector General stuff....just had to say that. In fact it may be about time to pull them out again!

#28

I find funny SF works better at shorter length than novel length. Too many 'funny' SF novels are merely comedic sketches strung along a flimsy plot thread (which is the Adams model) or not particularly funny.

I always like the humor in the Hogben stories of Kuttner and Moore. Kind of twisted but very funny.

I finally got around to reading Singularity Sky; was that a mistake! For one thing I found it to be a real good read. Two, I would have had a better understanding of a lot of Stross' standard operating procedures. Also, I knocked off Ragamuffin at the very end of last year; not bad, not great (B).

I just finished Fearless: The Lost Fleet. Uncomplicated and enjoyable.

#6
Mainspring is very good and most people would classify it as 'steampunk".

Message edited by its author, Jan 7, 2009, 10:29am.

So far this month, I've read The Ghost Brigades, by John Scalzi.
Now, I'm reading Fledgling by Octavia Butler.

I am reading Capacity by Tony Ballantyne and enjoying it. I am also trying to get through Gridlinked by Neal Asher for the second time. I read and loved The Skinner by Asher but can't seem to like the Ian Cormac novels.

I enjoyed Cowl and The Skinner, but I didn't think Asher's other novels were very good. Prador Moon especially was terrible.

Message edited by its author, Jan 7, 2009, 10:36am.

#4o
I have been trying to get my hands on the sequel to The Skinner but am worried by how much I don't like either Gridlinked or Brass Man. It might Escape from LA the book I do like. (Which is to say, Escape from LA broke the time/space barrier and made Escape from New York retroactively stink.)

#23: I've just namechecked Bob Shaw's Who goes here? in another thread, and I recommend it as a fine comic sf novel.

The trouble with Douglas Adams is that he didn't always do Douglas Adams one-liners very well. And, of course, the radio series - at least,the original two series - came first. I understand that there are considerable plot discontinuities between radio series and novels.

When HHGTTG first appeared, there was some speculation that DA was a pseudonym for some well-known sf author or other, because the radio series was so spot-on with lampooning some of the tropes of sf. I still treasure it for that very reason.

Have just finished reading The High Crusade, recommended to me by several people on the Poul Anderson thread, and greatly enjoyed it. Despite what appeared to be a pulp-SF plot - medieval period knights taking over a spacecraft and trying and take over the universe - it surprised me by being well-written, fairly well thought-out, and exciting, although I still don't think that the knights would actually win in such a situation.

4/5.

Just finished Dogs by Nancy Kress.

Can't figure out why it was classified as SF.

Earned an "Eh" from me. Not her best, by far.

#43 Somewhere, I think when a game was made of The High Crusade, if my memory is correct an additional short story was written in that setting.

Message edited by its author, Jan 7, 2009, 7:30pm.

Loved the Sector General books by White that I have read. I have the republished omnibus editions. I am trying to get the last one on Book Mooch.

I thought the first one was an amazing look at the real world culture at the time each of the 3 books were written. First one: no women, they were sweathearts waiting at home; Second one: women arrived but were limited in their capabilities and locked up at night; Third one: they were doctors and in charge of their own lives. Of course the stories and characters were great too.

Someone mentioned Light Ages I was so anxious for it to be over, it was one of the few books I didn't finish.

I have a bunch of Neal Asher books. I enjoyed Skinner but thought the writing was pretty bad.

The Chrysalids by John Wyndham. Very enjoyable to reread this as an adult. Genetic mutations are considered abominations by a post apocalyptic society. How do those with hidden differences survive betrayal?

I've been avidly reading Patricia Briggs' Mercy Walker series. She is a walker (can shape shift into a coyote) who was raised by werewolves. She has a VW garage in the Three Cities area of Eastern Washington. Her friends in the werewolf community, the vampire community and the Fae community find her talents uniquely suited to helping them deal with disasters among their kind. It's a wild, fun trip!

I am reading Twilight and Heart of Stone

I am still reading the DS9: Millennium omnibus. Despite my slowness, it's really quite good. A lot of times, media tie-in novels get a bad rap, but the Reeves-Stevens' are quite good at writing them now. The characters act as I would expect them to from the show, and they show that they have some better understanding of physics than Star Trek even bothers with. There are some things from the show they have to get circuitous to explain and in the end their explanations don't quite work, but they certainly do a better job of it than was ever shown and I appreciate their attempt. Anyways, if you are a fan of Deep Space Nine I highly recommend reading this novel.

Just finished an ARC of Patient Zero by Jonathan Maberry, a thriller with zombies. A wild and crazy ride if you like thrillers and are willing to suspend a bunch of belief.

Odd, I liked The Light Ages and House of Storms. Good thing there are plenty of writers to satisfy all our tastes.

I'm reading Far Horizons.

On a science fiction literature panel lately one of the panelists was bemoaning the fact that the bookstore shelves seem to be filled with vampire romances. I've tried to stay away from the genre, but got caught up in some books by Kat Richardson that are not TOO bad (more urban fantasy than romance), but I just bought the most terrible, horrible paranormal romance (I thought it was a mystery) that I have ever read, Dancing with Werewolves by Carole Nelson Douglas. Has anyone bought a book so bad that they felt they should burn it and not merely dump it or give it away?

53:Well a friend was so freaked out by American Psycho that we had to burn it. Yes I am aware of the irony.

Just finished Starrise at Corrivale but can't recommend it at all.

Just re-reading a late-60s collection edited by Harry Harrison, Backdrop of stars, in which various authors were asked to select their favourite of their own un-anthologised stories and to provide a contextual commentary on it. Interestingly, I just read Poul Anderson's short 'The last of the deliverers' in this collection, dating from 1958; in a utopian, agrarian, medium- to high-tech future USA, the last Republican and the last Communist both fail to come to terms with the new world or each other. It's many years since I'd read this story, and I was struck by the things Anderson got right - especially the way state Communism collapsed in on itself - and the things that remain utopian, like practical solar power replacing oil as an energy source. Indeed, Anderson hardly felt any need to point out the disappearance of oil dependency yet it was one of the most noticeable things about the story to me on this re-reading.

Finished reading Farthing for the group read - up until the last few chapters, it is pretty much a straight upper-class English detective story, except Jews get discriminated against. The story becomes a more straightforward alternative history in the last few chapters (you'll know when this occurs if you read it), but I felt it to be a wasted opportunity.

Farthing; The Dancer and the Thief; Suzy, Led Zeppelin and Me were the last 3 books. really liked the Millar book

Just finished Count Zero by W. Gibson. Don't see how I missed this one it was great. I was on the net when the "movie about Johnny Mnemonic" was being discussed endlessly but somehow missed the Count.

Is it my imagination or is Gibson "borrowed" from heavily by other authors for future terminology? Did he coin "matrix" for the 3D internet or did he just adapt from those he wrote before him?

I just answered part of that question using Wiki;

"The Matrix, in the long-running British science fiction television series Doctor Who, is a massive computer system on the planet Gallifrey that acts as the repository of the combined knowledge of the Time Lords."

Message edited by its author, Jan 15, 2009, 8:59pm.

After Worlds Collide I like classic "sci-fi" much more then the overly drawn out modern "SF". (To each his/her own)

I have started Radio Freefall by Matthew Jarpe

Not a long way in, but seems better than I expected, so far.

I just started To Dream in the City of Sorrows and I don't care what anyone thinnks. :-)

I was/am I big Babylon 5 fan and this is apparently the first totally canon novel. I was always sorry Jeffrey Sinclair disappeared from the story mostly, and now he appears to be a major character in this book. I was in the mood for a fun read.

i was probably far too negative about radio freefall earlier on. but i still don't think i'll finish it. G. Willow Wilson's comic series Air and then start Mankell's Kennedy's Brain.

Just finished Octavia Butler's Fledgling and I'm about to start on Kim Harrison's A Fistful of Charms (#4 in "The Hollows" series).

I just finished Radio Freefall and I quite liked it.

I've just started Just After Sunset by Stephen King. Sometimes I like his short stories better, because he struggles with his endings on his longer works. I think a short story forces him to tighten up his writing a lot.

I'm currently rereading Ringworld, and I plan to blog about it when I've finished it.

re: 57
I liked Farthing but thought the (spoiler alert) "everybody is gay or bisexual" aspect of the novel to be a bit tacked on. I understand why the detective is a homosexual but as for the rest of the cast, it streched credulity and did not seem to add to the story. Maybe someone else can enlighten me as to why this matters to the narrative.

Just finished Growing Up Weightless by John M. Ford, by virtue of its "book of honor" status at the upcoming Potlatch (http://www.potlatch-sf.org/). Wow! My new favorite author I'd never heard of before. I'll definitely be checking out his other work, even the Star Trek novels (no offense to readers of such).

His Dark Materials by Pullman.

I got a bunch of Heinlein for Christmas and I'm willing to make a deal with the group: I won't try to convince any of you to read them if you won't try to convince me not to.

Now that I've caught up on the TBR pile backlogued before then, I'm reading The Number of the Beast.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress requires a high pain tolerance. Not one of Bob's best. "Stranger" and "Job" are a lot more fun.

kswolff, I have to disagree. Of all the adult stories of Heinlein, I think Moon is my favorite. Stranger in a Strange Land and Groking just do not hold it for me, nor does Job: A comedy of Justice

Now on the juveniles, I have a whole list of favorites. Starship Troopers falls, I think somewhere in between, but Farmer in the Sky and Citizen of the Galaxy are easily two of my favorites from what he wrote to appeal to younger men (teenagers.)

Currently reading Regenesis which is the new one by C.J. Cherryh. Although a few people have been disappointed that it isn't the novel they wanted it to be it is reading extremely well so far.

I disagree also. Moon is a Harsh Mistress and Starship Troopers are long time favorites.

Current SciFi in that genre is Fe Fi FOE Comes. Best new novel I've read.

As promised, I wrote about Ringworld on my

As promised, I wrote about Ringworld on my blog.

#72, #73, #75 - I'm one of those who hates Starship Troopers. I recently bought The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, because it's No 72 in the SF Masterworks series, but I suspect I'll be just as unimpressed with it. I'll also be rereading Stranger in a Strange Land some time this year as part of my reading challenge, so we'll see what happens...

Message edited by its author, Jan 22, 2009, 5:14am.

Quoting from Ian's blog


"The ship would carry practically no cargo, though it was over a mile in diameter." Yet when they finally see the ship: "The Long Shot was a transparent bubble over a thousand feet in diameter"

So what's your beef? If it is over a mile in diameter it is over 1000 ft in diameter too. OK you can claim it that bit is shoddy writing but it isn't an inconsistency. Or maybe the ship didn't have such a large diameter when it arrived than when it started - now I can imagine a ship where that would be true but unfortunately it isn't the case here.

I am constantly bewildered by the people who hold Ringworld up as some sort of paragon of hard SF. For me, the sense of scale, the wonder of it all and adventure are the things that I remember most strongly.

First, I pointed out they were minor quibbles. Second, there's a bloody big difference between over 5,000 feet and over 1,000 feet. And why is "shoddy writing" excusable?

I don't think I'd ever hold up Ringworld as a paragon of anything, but I've always thought it was considered to be hard sf. Not that it makes any difference. The point is that anything that throws you out of a story is going to spoil the reading experience - sometimes it's minor things, sometimes it's things more fundamental to the story. I found the mistakes over measurements and units annoying, but not enough to stop me reading.

Reading far too many things at the moment. Firmin, because I figured it'd be a short, quick read; ditto The Revenge of the Lawn. Then there's The Woman in White, which I've got to finish in three weeks as it's a book club book; and also The Last Innocent White Man in America, which is an ILL so I can't dawdle over that.

I started Just After Sunset last month, but have had to put it aside for a moment. And I'm trying not to make matters worse for myself by starting The Hidden World (I finished The White Tyger recently) or Revolutionary Road already. I figure having four (or five) books on the go at one time is enough!

>78 & >79, Between you, you've managed to strike one of the chords of textual criticism. The relationship of the text to the reader has changed over the last forty years by the coming into existence of other texts over time that inevitably revise the relationship between the selected text (Ringworld) and the reader. The reader's involvement with these other texts adds a level of sophistication that did not exist. Another aspect of this is that as Ian says, things that were permitted in SF at that time now seem sloppy or even cheating today as a result of the changes in expectation of the text.

You can't go back after forty years and reread a book. Too much has changed in the reader and too much has changed in the nature, albeit not the content, of the text.

Literature consists of a text so well integrated into the reality of its day and the characters so well drawn, that these niggling differences between the reader and the text brought about by the workings of time are much less noticeable if not non-existent. The fact that SF makes use of imaginary worlds in imaginary times does not change this aspect. If the world is consistent and if events, races, and characters are true to their imaginary natures throughout and the story creates themes that elicit emotional attachment in the reader, there is no reason timeless literature can not arise from the SF imagination.

#81 Interesting post but I am having trouble reconciling two of your statements:

"You can't go back after forty years and reread a book. Too much has changed in the reader and too much has changed in the nature, albeit not the content, of the text."

and
...and the story creates themes that elicit emotional attachment in the reader, there is no reason timeless literature can not arise from the SF imagination.

I'm familiar with the idea of the understanding of the work being a combination of the work plus the reader's response to the work. Maybe your first statement was meant more to say that you can't reread a work in exactly the same way, because there are plenty of SF books that one can reread and enjoy and gets as much from.

Perhaps the two statements are reconciled by the idea that SF that can be reread contains some of the literary qualities that make a book worthwhile to be reread, or read for the first time long after its writing.

Maybe that's a topic for a new thread - what SF books are rereadable (I guess that's a word). At first thought I was tempted to say "SF classics" but it seems that there are books that would be classics (such as books that set a new trend or were remarkable in some way) that don't stand up to rereading that well. I'm sure there's a lot of overlap, or maybe they are even a subset of "classics".

Oh, geez, now I've rambled on....

>79: And why is "shoddy writing" excusable?

When you have no standards and spend too much time in one section of the library / bookstore. That's why Asimov and Heinlein are considered Science Fiction Grandmasters, but to everyone else they are considered "typists."

They were the Kevin J. Andersons of their day. It's sad that the genre has serious trouble abandoning it's Boys Own Adventure roots.

It has been a long time since I read Ringworld, but the point of about ages in Science Fiction, I think has a valid sound to it and it is apropos to this thread.

If we have a pre golden age, jules Verne and H.G. Wells say, then the John W. Campbell years as the golden age, which I would say Larry Niven comes in at the tail end of to begin his career and where I would place Ringworld, and say Arthur c. Clarke and his Rendezvous with Rama. We then move into the writing after the sixties when our earth based civilization left this planet and stood on the moon.

One of the things about Science Fiction is that the writing of it is always outmoded by the advance of time. Alien was on television the other day, and Tom Skerrit was having a time looking at all Caps displayed on his computer screen, or can you remember Scotty talking to a mouse on an original Macintosh computer in a Star Trek movie.

I don't want to say I am the definitive authority on eras of science fiction, though I think a healthy discussion could follow. But our appreciation of Science Fiction should delve into past masters as well as current writers.

The concept of a constructed world that was the distance from a sun that ours world is. That would hold so many earths that we would never run out of land, is a hard science fiction concept. It just may not have been explained as it would be done now, by David Brin, perhaps.

Reading a classic such as Ringworld is something that fans of Science Fiction should experience. As one should also look into Issac Asimov, and Robert Heinlein for these are all greats of the genre.

Good writing, the use of the language correctly is something we should discuss. Unless we are reading Damon Runyon or James Joyce we should probably expect the writing to follow what is in our Strunk and Whites rules. (I am speaking form an english language bias and hope to be forgiven from other native language users)

What we should be able to put in context is that writers from different eras had different things to relate. Had different social commentary to include in their writing. Farnhams Freehold probably my least favorite of Heinlein is a needful read to discuss discrimination in a time when America was still race biased against African Americans. We do need our writers to write well, but we do also need to look at these older works and judge them on their merits.

As to rereads, I was looking at my favorites of all time, noting some that I have reread many times in 40 years of being a reader and note that a few are classic to me, but are not great books any longer, and may not need be on my reread list for the next 40 years.

Two things:

"One of the things about Science Fiction is that the writing of it is always outmoded by the advance of time. Alien was on television the other day, and Tom Skerrit was having a time looking at all Caps displayed on his computer screen, or can you remember Scotty talking to a mouse on an original Macintosh computer in a Star Trek movie."

That's either evasive or you missed my point entirely. Good writing has nothing to do with technology. Reading Zamyatin's We, written in the 1920s, or Huxley in the 30s, or Orwell in the 40s and 50s, the same thing with technology applies. "We" and 1984 and Brave New World all have their laughably outdated technology, but these were all masters of the language (not just some low-rent genre). Outdated technology is not a valid excuse for shoddy writing. Stop using it as a crutch! Reading Brave New World was far more enjoyable than anything Heinlein could churn out. This isn't a matter of taste, I can prove it with an Etch-A-Sketch. Compared to Huxley, Heinlein is a lightweight.

"Good writing, the use of the language correctly is something we should discuss. Unless we are reading Damon Runyon or James Joyce we should probably expect the writing to follow what is in our Strunk and Whites rules. (I am speaking form an english language bias and hope to be forgiven from other native language users)"

How old is Strunk & White? 50 years old, at least. It's outdated and shouldn't be trusted. Language changes, so I'm not going to fix a Ferrari with a car manual for a Model T. Funny how a Sci Fi group should champion such a ridiculously outdated style manual as Strunk & White.

>69: edgewood, I possess exactly one Star Trek spinoff novel, Ford's How much for just the planet?. I was recommended it by a friend who said 'This is a fine comic novel. It just happens to take place in the Trek universe.' And she was right.

I too must give a thumbs up for Ford and How Much For Just The Planet. I read it years ago, and rated it 9 out of 10 at that time.

Message edited by its author, Jan 22, 2009, 6:43pm.

#81

"You can't go back after forty years and reread a book. Too much has changed in the reader and too much has changed in the nature, albeit not the content, of the text."

On the contrary, there are quite a few SF books that have hardly dated at all, and stand up quite well forty years after publication. I believe that Orwell and Huxley have been mentioned previously, and are only two examples that show good writing and good ideas are timeless.

Kswolf- in regards to good writing, Strunk and White gets updated, though perhaps you want something edgier to be your guide. In English, however we have nouns and verbs, adjectives and adverbs, dangling participials.

These things have a cadence that need to be followed, else chaos can ensue. S&W first copyright in 59 so you are right on the nose there, but the rules of grammar, are the rules. Only great writers can break them (hence my reference to Joyce and Runyon.) I have read too many writers who think they are smarter than the rules, and there writing turns out badly.

If you have another guide on correct use of writing, please cite it. All forms of writing, not just Sci Fi, and certainly forum posts, can benefit.

> 88 From the same post:

"Literature consists of a text so well integrated into the reality of its day and the characters so well drawn, that these niggling differences between the reader and the text brought about by the workings of time are much less noticeable if not non-existent."

When I read an ordinary novel twice, forty years apart, the quality of the novel the second time is going to be influenced by the time gone by. If the novel is thoroughly grounded in its imaginary world, the characters are drawn strong enough to draw me into their world and the situations they find themselves in involves me emotionally as well as intellectually the time gone by will have less impact on my second reading experience. Call it the solidity of the work and, as with solid objects time does not penetrate (in any useful way).

If, OTOH, any one of those aforementioned elements is missing or poorly executed, the development of my reading skills, as well as the increased sophistication of my literary taste over the forty years will quickly point out to me problems with the text that I did not/could not recognize in the past.

So, the completeness of the world, the strength of the characters, the sense of empathy created in the plot all make for a pleasurable re-read after many years, like revisiting an old friend or finding a new one in an unexpected place. The lack of depth and care, the inability to grow with the reader one sees in works content to fit the genre and no more, the author not striving for the literary but being satisfied with the mundane is ever more exaggerated as my skill as a reader grows.

It's a matter of maturity in the relationship of text and reader. If one or the other matures, but not both, the reading experience the second time around will be less than enjoyable.

Well, I know nothing about grammer.....
But I did just finish reading Reality Dysfunction by Peter F. Hamilton.
It was long, some parts great, some parts I did the skip over thing.

#89

On Strunk & White's The Elements Of Style. One should recognise that it is a style guide for American English. British English does not have a book which is held in such high regard. There is Fowler's Modern English Usage but despite being very entertainingly written isn't as revered in Britain and certainly not treated in the same way as S&W is the US. We also have The Oxford Guide to Style which is mainly used for OUP and Oxford University which sort of fits between S&W and The Chicago Manual Of Style.

I wonder if this is why British English has been evolving (well, "changing") at a faster rate than American English?

It seems my Ringworld review has kicked off quite a discussion... to which I'd like to add:

On the contrary, there are quite a few SF books that have hardly dated at all, and stand up quite well forty years after publication. I believe that Orwell and Huxley have been mentioned previously, and are only two examples that show good writing and good ideas are timeless.

I suspect those books which haven't dated are those that a) are set within entirely created universes, and b) have themes which are of relevance at any time. 1984 fits this pattern, Brave New World doesn't. But then I hated Brave New World and thought it poorly-done.

Another sf classic which fits the pattern is Dune. As do the likes of, well, Ringworld. Except... the style in which Ringworld is written dates it, and I expect the language of many sf novels is going to cause more problems for current readers than story, technology, world-building, or anything else that is genre-specific.

I just knocked off Jhegaala (A-) and found it to be one of the more useful backfiller books in the Vlad Taltos saga.

Have to admit to liking Vlad Taltos a great deal and wish this series would be written more quickly.

As to classics, when I read Dune I did not know the history of Mohammed, but as an adult when it was taught to me, I recognized Paul Muad'Dib immediately.

I found that I did not like the world that Herbert gave us which edifies how tastes vary. I prefer Ringworld to Dune, but only continued in each to their second books and stopped both there.

Good writing or bad was not the issue for me so much as story, and I just didn't find that my time investment worthy of the return, or a desire to return to these. I did pick up Dune a second time when the movie came out to see if I had been wrong in my choice on not staying with it, but in the end I decided it was still not for me.

#93

I thought that Brave New World had the second part done quite well - a dictatorship through science rather than politics.

I have just finished reading Jules Verne's Paris in the Twentieth Century - rampant capitalism has taken over all forms of life, and a young writer, Michel, is unable to publish original works because entertainment is produced solely to make a profit. Nothing like real-life, then. I reviewed for the 42 Challenge: http://42sciencefictionchallenge.blogspo...

Currently reading The Hidden World by Paul Park, the final book in the Princess of Roumania series. And, as is always the case when reading series, I'm having a little trouble remembering what happened in earlier books...

Last night I started The Lion Game by James H. Schmitz which is one of the Telzey Amberdon books. I expect to have it finished tonight because it is only short. I will then start The Sea And Summer by George Turner.

George Turner is one of my favourites. His sf was never entirely convincing, but he was an excellent writer.

I'm now reading Inside Straight.

Finished Inside Straight about a week ago and passed it on through PBS. The first half of the book was good ... the second half drags. Same problem I had with most of the other Wild Card books - he seems to forget about the Aces and Jokers I find interesting and continues the story with ones I don't give a hoot about. Oh well.

Finally finished 8 Days by Bumgarner after picking it up and putting it down for about 6 weeks. Eh.

I enjoy James H. Schmitz a lot. Although Witches of Karres was my first encounter with him in the late 60s or early 70s (must have been the 1966 paperback edition), I soon scrounged vintage copies of Demon Breed, The Telzey Toy, The Lion Game, Agent of Vega and Legacy. I think it was one of the best things Baen ever did to collect all his shorts and longs together and republish them at the beginning of this decade. Although I had FINALLY gotten vintage copies of A Tale of Two Clocks and The Eternal Frontiers, I bought up all 6 volumes of Schmitz works as soon as they were available. What a treasure trove! Is it a re-read for you, Andy, or your first time?

Just finished the latest le Carre, a most wanted man and enjoyed it very much. Set in Hamburg, le Carre resumes "standard" espionage - post 9/11 (Several recent novels - very good ones - weren't "spy" novels per se - the wonderful the constant Gardener for instance dealt w/ multinational drug companies and exploitative clinical trials).

Wouldn't you say that John Le Carre is a mystery rather than a science fiction genre? I am a science fiction fan but talk up the books of other genres in there forums. Just curious

#102

The Lion Game was a first read but I have read some other Schmitz (including Witches Of Karres before. I'm not as fond of his work as you are but it was a reasonable enough read.

Farthing by Jo Walton I enjoyed it but like others here I did find the everybody's a homosexual thing rather tiresome. I will be picking up the sequel.

I don't think you should bother with the Witches of Karres. Like Dune, which was rejected by 20 mainstream publishers, probably because it was rubbish, it was published by Chiltons .... the publisher of auto repair manuals, for a paltry sum. Neither book was an instant bestseller. Actually both books moved by word of mouth from reader to reader, which made them successful in spite of a lack of reviews from mainstream sources. Probably you should stick to books that are recommended by mainstream sources, and published by mainstream mass-market publishers, after they have made the bestseller list. Stay away from 'typist' literature like Starship Troopers ... military fiction is for the rare few that venerate the military.

I'm reading the latest Jonathan Carroll, The Ghost in Love, not SF but ..er...ghosts.

Dukedom, however, is reading the forthcoming China Mieville. I was in the middle of another novel, so he got first dibs. He is totally enthralled in it and antsy to talk about it but can't until I read it (apparently any talking about it will give things away). The premise is a police procedural with detective, sidekick and murder. Mind-bending perhaps, but not SF either, I'm afraid.

The postman should be delivering Yellow Blue Tibia by Adam Roberts on Monday. For those who are interested (and I know avaland will be) here is a link to its page on the Orion website. So far no US publisher has picked it up. I still haven't seen hide nor hair of Gwyneth Jones new book Spirit, Or The Princess of Bois Dormant but I have it on order.

Message edited by its author, Jan 29, 2009, 10:49am.

I ordered the hardback of Spirit: The Princess of Bois Dormant and it's yet to appear. But trade paperbacks are available in my local Waterstone's. It pisses me off when publishers advertise hardback editions, but then they're impossible to get hold of.

>109 Damn. Another Roberts. Ok, I admit to taunting you about the Mieville, so we're even:-) I think Orion is distributed in the US now under their own label.

We put the forthcoming Jones from PS Publishing on order, but not Spirit (on the Book Depository it gets put in one's basket as "Stone Free" - a bug, I'm sure)

Ultimately, I loved The Ghost in Love. It was touching and insightful but meandering and a bit dull at times for a book of magic realism (or whatever). The middle dragged so that I almost put it down, but I persevered and to a satisfyingly odd conclusion.

I just finished Anathem and Blinsight. These are both works of hard sf that speculate in the realms of the biological and the linguistic as much as the conceptual world of theoretical physics (which to my mind is a little overworked in hard sf). I feel a little guilty in admitting that I thought Anathem was Great (I could go on and on, but suffice it to say, I didn’t find the made-up language much of a distraction, and felt in fact this new vocab was as much satire and effective literary transportation device as anything, but I digress-) because so many people seemed unsatisfied with it and, OTOH, Stephenson is so popular, it's kind of like saying I love the Jonas Brothers... or maybe not. Blinsight for all it's quality ended up working on me more like a horror novel and as such, turned me off slightly. The subjective literary quality of either novel aside, one could certainly feel the Weight of the research both authors did to bring these works to life (in a good way).

I am currently reading Foundation for the first time and Sly Mongoose. I am finding Asimov as dry as I anticipated, but it fits with the tale and the time it was written. Also, currently it strikes me as more interesting than Sly Mongoose, mainly because I hate the subplot re: the bulimic co-protagonist.

>109 maybe I'll wait for your review, andy. The synopsis doesn't grab me (and I'll see what Dukedom thinks, he reads Roberts also)

#111 I plan to get the Jones' collection from PS too, although it's not due until "spring" (already delayed from an originally posted publication date of "late 2008").

Also due some time in 2009 is a collection of her non-fiction from Aqueduct Press, titled Imagination/Space, plus a story collection from Aqueduct (no date yet), and there's also a planned sequel to Spirit: The Princess of Bois Dormant.

Message edited by its author, Jan 29, 2009, 11:06am.

>112 cmthomas, yes, I'm in the middle now and feeling a bit dragged:-) It's Carroll, so I'll persevere based on that and your encouragement.

#112 "Blinsight"? Is that about little Russian pancakes? :-)

>114 I'm wondering if it is previously uncollected nonfiction or a remix of Deconstructing the Starships (which I liked).

>116 isn't the author Peter Wattsovich?

#117 New material, I believe. She's written plenty since Deconstructing the Starships, after all.

#110

Same for me. If Gollancz don't pull their finger out I will have to write a letter of complaint to Simon Spanton. It always seems to happen to Gwyneth Jones as well, Rainbow Bridge had the hardcover pulled fairly late on in the process.

Actually I've had "Blinsight" and it caused me to put on 30 lbs so don't make fun :(

Sorry - Blindsight. Ironically, a friend of mine got a paper published in grad school on blindsight - clearly I couldn't see what he was talking about.

>120 that was a disappointment to have such a nice set of hardcovers and have the last only available as a paperback.

#120 And yet when I bought a copy of Justina Robson's Selling Out in hardback, and she signed it for me, she admitted it was the first time she'd seen the hardback edition and hadn't even been sure there was going to be one.

Oh, and I was also very annoyed that Rainbow Bridge was only published in trade paperback.

Eric's Brown's Virex trilogy was hardback for the first two books, and massmarket paperback for the final book.

Message edited by its author, Jan 29, 2009, 11:19am.

#120 and #122 But Night Shade did a lovely job on their edition of Bold As Love. It's a shame they didn't do the rest of the series.

no question that the LeCarre is a spy novel; but i've interpreted this thread all along as referring to whatever one is reading during a quarter - not just sf/fantasy.

Managed to mislay my copy of Park's the hidden world about 1/3 of the way in. As w/ the other volumes, very well written - but convoluted and complex in personae, settings, plots and it's easy to get lost w/in one volume, let alone trying to remember relevant material from the prior three. By the time i find it, i'll doubtless have to start again at the beginning; but that's ok. Alternative history circa WW I coupled w/ fantasy. Spent 30 minutes looking for it last night before switching off to the autograph man.

I plan on finally reading Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert's concluding Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune books this weekend. Yes, I know they will most likely be rubbish, but I want to be able to say that I have read them at least once. The reason why it is so late is because I refused to pay for new editions of these books.

Message edited by its author, Jan 29, 2009, 7:51pm.

I look forward to rojse review of the Dune books, and perhaps filling in the gaps of the other Dune books with reviews if able. I myself have done Dune twice, Dune Messiah, and Children of Dune once each. But found that they were stuck in the mire for me when I read them 20+ years back.

My thoughts then, if I can dig it out from the old brain, is that Herbert had a good thing going with the original, but its success led to books that were money makers in a world that one book should have been enough.

Quantico by Greg Bear

Very scary!

Message edited by its author, Jan 29, 2009, 8:40pm.

I liked Quantico a good deal too - and would certainly class it under "thriller" rather than SF, though Bear is known for SF.
BTW if people are interested in what's going on in day to day reporting of infectious disease (human, animal, plant) the promed site is very informative
http://www.fas.org/promed/
public health professionals from around the world w/ (moderated) posting on stuff before it hits the news (if, indeed, it ever does).

#126 / #127 Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune are dire. It's a toss-up whether they're worse, or marginally better, than the Legends of Dune trilogy. As novels per se I'd say they were a smidgin better. As Dune novels, they just incomparable shit.

As for the originals... The first three were conceived as a trilogy, and so it's inaccurate to claim they were cash-in sequels. They work well as a trilogy. God Emperor of Dune is a bit of a hurdle - it's a bit of a soapbox, but it has its fans. The final two are, I'd argue, better written in parts than the original three.

The first three were not conceived as a trilogy. Herbert wrote 5 novels in the Dune saga after Dune. Only Dune was a significant breakthrough work. The rest were second rate. The ones written by his son and Anderson had none of the quality of Herbert's work.

#131 Frank Herbert himself wrote: "I conceived of a long novel, the whole trilogy as one book about the messianic convulsions that periodically overtake us ... This grows from my theory that superheroes are disastrous for mankind, that even if we find a real hero (whatever that may be), eventually fallible mortals take over the power structure that comes into being around such a leader." You can find the quote in The Maker of Dune, edited by Timothy O'Reilly.

All six books by Frank Herbert were best-sellers, although only the first was nominated for, or won, any awards. It probably still sells significantly more copies than the other Dune books, although all of them are still in print. Some of the writing in Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse Dune is better than that Dune - not unexpectedly, as they were written nearly two decades later.

The Brian Herbert & Kevin J Anderson additions to the Dune series should be avoided at all costs.

Message edited by its author, Jan 30, 2009, 5:26am.

#120. Bloody hell! Just got an email from Amazon saying my ordered copy of Spirit: The Princess of Bois Dormant has shipped. That's the hardback I ordered. I hope it's the bloody hardback they've sent me... I shall report back once I have it in my mitts...

Message edited by its author, Jan 30, 2009, 7:36am.

#133

Mine still says Dispatching Soon at Amazon.

'Bestseller' has nothing to do with quality, else Britany Spears is musically superior to Rachmanninov.

People buy, usually, from the mainstream because the mainstream has set it up that way.

I agree that popularity != quality. But I was responding to your comment that Dune was a significant "breakthrough" work and the others second-rate. However, longevity certainly is a good indicator of quality. And Dune is still in print now, 44 years after its initial book publication. The sequels are still in print as well.

It's a judgement call. Dune is one of my favorite novels. I was disappointed with the follow-on books, and could not read the ones done by his son and Anderson.

By 'breakthrough' I meant that the subject and how it was handled by Herbert was original mostly and genius.

Fair enough. Dune is also one of my favourite novels. I think its world-building is superb, but smoe of its writing is not very good. I also like the sequels, although they don't have the emotional appeal of the first.

There's no denying Dune's achievements, but Herbert wrote a lot of other good non-Dune novels as well. He also wrote some clunkers.

Now see? You boys can play with each other.

I spend my days recommending books to people and I realized that my preteen reading was way behind.
I just finished Rangers Apprentice by John Flanagan. Not to bad, not Science Fiction either.

In the past week I finished up Soon I Will Be invincible (B). I enjoyed it but it has some plot and POV problems, particularly with the heroes.

#104 & #125. No question John Le Carre is a spy novelist but some rise up to the quality of Joseph Conrad. I'm thinking particularly of The Honourable Schoolboy. Of course Conrad was also a spy novelist at times.
Just finished reading Alan Bennet's The Uncommon Reader which was an ER book. I'm also reading a bunch of others including Brass Man which I'm having trouble finishing. Too long, too many subplots, I pick it up read a little fall asleep and don't pick it up again for a couple of weeks.

#104 & #125. No question John Le Carre is a spy novelist but some rise up to the quality of Joseph Conrad. I'm thinking particularly of The Honourable Schoolboy. Of course Conrad was also a spy novelist at times.
Just finished reading Alan Bennet's The Uncommon Reader which was an ER book. I'm also reading a bunch of others including Brass Man which I'm having trouble finishing. Too long, too many subplots, I pick it up read a little fall asleep and don't pick it up again for a couple of weeks.

I'm reading Remake by Connie Willis.

First time posting and i am reading THE RETRIEVAL ARTIST SERIES-BY Kristine Kathryn Rusch. A mixture of science fiction and mystery novels, with some very intersting alien cultures for added spice.

#142/3 >>

Have you ever read Le Carre's The Secret Pilgrim? There's a twist to this collection of stories, and when you get what Le Carre is doing, the impact of the epilogue really hits you. (To avoid SPOILER, I'd rather not say what the twist is, but it's of a literary nature.)

Andyl, my hardback copy of Spirit: The Princess of Bois Dormant finally arrived today. so there is such an edition...

Ha, I got mine on Wednesday even though the dispatch notice was later than yours. Not that I have started reading it yet.

I had to pick mine up from the post office and today was the earliest I could get there. It probably arrived the same day as yours.

I'm debating whether or not to reread the Aleutian trilogy first...

Message edited by its author, Feb 6, 2009, 5:55am.

Well, I liked Farthing well enough to request Ha'penny from the library. I'm on to Glory Road for now.

Finished The Night Sessions by Ken MacLeod and wrote about it here. Now rereading Rendezvous with Rama by Arthur C Clarke, which I also plan to write about.

Message edited by its author, Feb 8, 2009, 5:27pm.

Why are there 2 "What are you reading, 2009?" threads? Seems a bit redundant.

I think we are moving from quarterly to monthly threads. The quarterly ones were getting a wee bit big,.

I thought this was a genre that adored doorstoppers? ;)

I don't think everyone has broadband. I have fibre-optic from Verizon and it takes as long for my system to load a three hundred and fifty post thread as it takes to load one with a single post. Many here are probably on dial-up or something and can brew a pot of coffee while some of these threads load.

Dial-up? That's not cutting edge. That's as disgraceful as a science fiction writer who doesn't use a computer. Take that, William Gibson, you Luddite schmuck ;)

HA. awesome.

I'm only a few months onto broadband, so I remember participating on this forum when I was on dial-up. Thank goodness cyops didn't start posting on FFFC any earlier!

How long before some arty Luddite types embrace dial-up as 'preserving the essential community spirit of the Net' than this absurdly easy populist broadband rubbish?

158:I've already seen several TV commercials talking about how much money you'll save by going from broadband back to dial up.

#159

Isn't that the equivalent of saving pennies by spending dollars? Is all that extra time loading pages worth the small amount of time that you save?

Message edited by its author, Feb 10, 2009, 8:08pm.

I'm not saying it makes sense only that the dialup companies are making the argument.

I save even more money going from broadband to steam-powered. I have a steampunk T1 line ;) I'm also hosting an IM with smoke signals. Direct deposit with cuneiform tablets is a bit of challenge though.

Want to see my blog? You'll have to travel to Lascaux and bring a powerful flashlight.

dial up is really good if you're trying to avoid someone who keeps phoning you....

Started reading Paolo Bacigalupi's Pump Six. Picked it up for all the rave reviews (from all corners it seems) and have not been disappointed so far. Of note as well, Bacigalupi had some interesting things to say re: writing lit fic v. mainstream v. Sf during the SF in SF panel from March of '08 (take a listen here).

edited to insert: I later noticed that the Agony Column archive page I linked to also has the author reading his story "The People of Sand and Slag" (which won the Theodore Sturgeon Award in '03 I think); gritty as hell and hard to cleanse from your mind (yeah, in a nice way).

Message edited by its author, Feb 13, 2009, 12:30am.

THIS THREAD IS DEAD - PLEASE USE THIS ONE.