Killing time on reddit I ran across this. Any comments, thoughts, suggestions?

What about the Replicators from the Stargates or some other villainous aliens?

Re: 11. The Daleks (Doctor Who)

What about Davros? - he doesn't even rate a mention!

No books mentioned there, it all seemed to be TV and movie alien villians. Surely there are a good race of aliens villians in novels?

Wow, what a terrible list of villians. The Wraiths included in any list of any kind? They don't seem evil in any sense except that they're the bad guys and so must be classified as villians. The Colossi aren't villians even by the games definition; they have absolutely no place being in this list. If anything, you're character is the villian considering you attack them and invade their territory (though you are manipulated. Unbelievable game for anyone who hasn't played it yet).

Thanks for finding that list though. I love these things.

# 3 Honestly, I have a hard time thinking of one. While villainous characters work in films and TV where everything is drawn very broadly, I think it’s hard to carry off "pure evil" in long form writing without it getting old quick.

Most of the cool villainous SF races I can think of veer into short story, fantasy monster territory: Lovecraft's Elder races; Hodgson's "Silent Ones", "Ab-humans", "Watchers" etc from the The Night Land. I've always loved R.A. Lafferty's evil characters who steal the show in many of his stories, like the Puca race from The Reefs of Earth, and the very very evil and scary Thieving Bears of "The Thieving Bear Planet".

Long form fiction - I guess the Starflyer and the aliens from MorningLightMountain in Hamilton's Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained? The Shing from Le Guin's City of Illusions? Umm, the psychotic killer guy from Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand? Man, am I reaching...

5: Reaching, yes. Is Rat Korga really a villain? He seems to me more of a victim in the book.

How about the Fithp from Footfall, or the cannibal army from Lucifer's Hammer? Or the Kzinti, from the Man-Kzin Wars?

How about The Race, from the Worldwar series? Or the ants from City? Or the Xeelee from Ring (among other books)?

Most literary 'alien villains' seems to have end up having redeeming qualities, or are simply misunderstood. The list mentions the Hive in Enders Game. A similar example is the Tyr from The Madness Season, or the seraphs in Endless Blue. Their actions are explained at the end, leaving them less than villainous IMO.

The Valor's Choice series by Tany Huff, and Finders Keepers by Linea Sinclair have implacable alien enemies bent on destruction, but I am not sure they have the format to be villains.

Message edited by its author, Apr 17, 2009, 4:09am.

Perhaps that's because films and TV series tend to paint their characters in broad brushstrokes and with a much-reduced palette. For a film, you have to characterise the villain as quickly as possible in order to show the hero's motivation - so it's easier just to make them one-dimensional evil.

# 8: I often think that is a problem with fantasy villains too - too many fantasy evils are unredeemingly evil with no motivational or qualifying details. I always wonder (okay, not always, more like I entertain a fleeting thought that this is not very satisfying whenever I am confronted with the situation), why is Sauron of Lord of the Rings evil? What is his motivation, and how did he become evil? Too much of what I term 'high fantasy' has this unnuanced evil as a plot point. This is one reason I prefer urban fantasy, and mythical fantasy. Those genres deal much better with ambiguity and grey zones.

In science fiction the same one-dimensional evil villains are sometimes found in slightly less 'literary' endeavours (IMO). The Honor Harrington series utilize them all the time, and it becomes very tiring.

In military sf, the enemy are always dyed-in-the-wool evil with no redeeming features because the politicians also have to be characterised evil -- what? I can't have another zillion-dollar battleship?! what if the evil enemy decides to attack? -- but since the politicians are nominally on the same side as the lantern-jawed might-is-right captain of the space navy, they can't be made too evil. Unless they're secretly working for the enemy, of course.

It does get very annoying the simplistic world-view and characterisation of such books. Which is why I don't read them.

#9:
The Silmarillion explains alot of the background of Sauron and Melkor, and how they went bad, if you're interested.

# 6 - I was thinking of Clym.

Berserker by Fred Saberhagen is my idea of great villains. They are Daleks without the heart.

I never considered Nivin's Kzin to be evil, just dangerous to be around. The Pupeteers though, they were backroom manipulators of the worst kind. Breeding humans for luck? That is evil.

One thing I noticed from these responses is when one looks at SF villains a whole different list of books is mentioned. I have not seen most of the books listed here in any of the lists for best or for introducing people to SF.

#10

It worked for the sequel to Hyperion (twice, actually - the invaders and those damn sentient robots), and no one complained there. One of the many aspects of the book that really annoyed me.

How about the Kif in Cherryh's Chanur series?

Hmmmmm, never thought of kif as a BAD thing, although I can see how some misguided souls might. I guess we probably are not talking about the same thing.

A couple of species that are dangerous to humans not because they're evil but for more "nuanced," as people say these days, reasons:

The Pak from Known Space and the Moties from The Mote in God's Eye.

#8 I'd never realised that, but yes, it's much easier to make villains evil in fantasy. In sci-fi, 'evil' often equates to incompatible with human life - take the ecology of the colonised world on Rider at the gate, the Hive in The myriad: tour of the Merrimack, or the Demons in The lost steersman. It's interesting how the authors resolve the problem of that incompatibility. As Ian says in #10, in military sci-fi, the solution is, after a minimum of soul-searching, to open fire.

When it comes to evil human villains, then the Companies seem to supply the nastiest examples - Mirror Dance or Dreamfall.

13: Even though they may not be evil, the Kzin certainly qualify as villains, especially in the Man-Kzin Wars series. One doesn't have to be evil to be a villain.

Jango Fett, hands down badest, most clever villan ever.

21: Really? Because from where I'm sitting, Jango's career as a villain is pretty much a big bundle of fail.

Vogons?

>22
Although he is certainly the most reproductively successful individual in the Star Wars universe, so he wins by the Darwinian metric.

>21 Yes his career in the SW movies was short lived,

but you should read some of the SW books his in. Its

a whole, different story.

The question about the most villainous species may imply "other", but doesn't parse it.

I think the most villainous species in sf is by far and away Mankind, whose villainy is well documented in early sf, as the most violent, fearful, xenophobic, traitorous group in space.

Least there be any doubt, consider the villainous Emergents in A Deepness in the Sky by Vernor Vinge. So far, the most dangerous and merciless predator of man is - man, even in SF.

Hitler, the African child army captains, the terrorists in Iraq who kidnapped a baby roasted it and left it on the parents door step, I really have a hard time making any comparison to literary villains when compared to true life.

Ahh just caught myself copying again {or borrowing heavily} didn't Richard K. Morgan preface Altered Carbon or one of the series with something similar whenever he gave a disclaimer for the violence in his novels?

I did like Sting's performance as Feyd? in David Lynche's Dune movie. He conveyed an innocent, joyous love of evil which permeated his entire being.