History Books: New, General, etc.History: On learning from and writing historyJoin LibraryThing to post. 1UrquhartEveryone probably knows about this one but I hadn't heard of it: The Decline and Fall of the British Empire (Hardcover) by Piers Brendon (Author) Reviews: “Splendid . . . Graphically narrated . . . Brendon’s book is history with the nasty bits left in . . . Provides a cautionary text for a new administration that will inherit autocratic allies, penal colonies, reliance on coercive power, and pervasive cynicism about America’s declared global arms.” –Karl E. Meyer, Washington Post Book World “Complex . . . Lucid . . . Every page is consistently readable and stimulating.” –Geoffrey Wheatcroft, The New York Times Book Review “The author is such a lively writer that I’d be hard pressed to find dull patches in this whooper of a book . . . Brendon’s narrative is wonderfully stocked with generals, politicians, rugged adventurers, consuls, eccentrics, administrators, and famous imperial hands.” –Matthew Price, Boston Globe “A richly detailed, lucid account of how the British Empire grew and grew–and then, not quite inexorably, fell apart.” --Kirkus "A book of enormous range and complexity and leavened with a splendid sense of wit and irony. It takes courage to emulate the great Gibbon, but Brendon succeeds magnificently. And while there may be many books on the British Empire, this is undoubtedly the most entertaining and the best." --Dominic Sandbrook, The Evening Standard "A masterpiece of a historical narrative. No review can hope to do justice to the depth of Brendon's research, the balance and originality of his conclusions, or the quality and humor of his prose. Our imperial story has been crying out for a top-flight historian who can write. Now it has one." --Saul David, Literary Review "Brilliant . . . An enthralling mini-series of colonial adventure . . . Brendon's book is stuffed with a myriad spectacular examples of human vanity, folly, depravity and greed--and is all the better for it." --Robert McCrum, The Observer "A sumptuous chronicle of the British empire. . . . A compelling and spectacularly detailed retelling of imperial "rise" as well as fall . . . A glittering panoply of decadence, folly, farce and devastation." --Maya Jasanoff, Saturday Guardian 2UrquhartIn the past 8 months I have read both the Odyssey and the Iliad and found them absolutely magnificent. Can you suggest for me any other specific ancient Greek literature titles that I might find equally engrossing? I know of none at the moment. I have heard of the dramatists but don't know really anything about them. 3EssaI don't read ancient Greek myself and am not at all a Classicist, but I can suggest asking the same question also in the Ancient History group. I have it on my "watched" list; it is an active group and the members seem quite knowledgeable and helpful. I do recall enjoying Lysistrata (one of the comedy plays), in my school days. 4Mr.DurickThe other fundamental Greek literature, that is other than Homer, is Hesiod. He is available and readable. Robert 5EssaUrquhart, here is something: It's not a book suggestion, but may be a handy way to browse some different authors and get a sense of their styles and forms and such. The Internet Classics Archive at MIT has, among other features, "a list of 441 works of classical literature by 59 different authors," mainly ancient Greek and Roman, in English translation and in the original. 6UrquhartMessage 5: Essa Essa, thank you very much; you are most kind to forward it. I think what I am hoping for is for someone to drop by here who knows the Classic Greek literature and can suggest the next step for me beyond the the Odyssey and the Iliad. They were such a surprise to me; I could not believe it. Also, I have a problem with reading plays, so I am hoping to avoid reading Greek drama. Reading plays is my Achilles heel...... 7carmodyStrange you say that about plays. Actually I think reading plays is almost a thing of the past. I wonder why? 8Cynara>7 Have plays ever been widely read? I'd love to have some more information. I know you get the black-market Elizabethan Shakespeare quartos - someone going into the play and writing it all down as best they can (if only they'd had bittorent). But historically, outside of academia and lit geeks like me, have people often sat down and read a play to themselves? It's not what they're for, after all. 9TLCrawfordI think that in the years BMC (before mass communication) reading plays was more popular. Reading everything was more popular then. I voluntary read Cyrano de Bergerac so I know somebody is stil doing it. ;-) I have a few plays in my library and I am looking for a few more. Someday I hope to have the time read them. 10wildbill>2 Urquhart The Portable Greek Reader might give you some leads. It has sections from a lot of Ancient Greek authors with information about them. I have a copy and it has introduced me to Hesiod and Sophocles. 12Mr_WormwoodRe: further reading past the Odyssey and the Illiad for Urquhart. It really depends on what your interested in. You could move into history writers such as Herodotus, or the philosophical works such as Plato etc etc, or if your still interested in the mythology/fable side try Aesop's Fables. 13UrquhartHistorians in Trouble: Plagiarism, Fraud, and Politics in the Ivory Tower (Paperback) by Jon Wiener (Author) From Amazon: Editorial Reviews Review A top-notch reporter on higher education, Wiener delves into the academic basket and hangs up some seriously dirty laundry. -- Chicago Tribune As readable as any political thriller. -- Library Journal Intrigues and educates...Wiener has a journalist's knack for boiling complex cases into digestible bits. -- Seattle Times Makes the case clearly and forcefully that historians' violations of common standards of ethics are not to be taken lightly. -- Los Angeles Times Wiener covers the modern university as if it were a police beat. -- John Leonard, Harper's Wiener's argument...is persuasively mounted. -- Financial Times Product Description The revealing and much-discussed look behind the scenes of recent headline-grabbing controversies in the history profession. Widely reviewed and discussed upon its hardcover publication, Historians in Trouble is investigative journalist and historian Jon Wiener's "incisive and entertaining" (New Statesman, UK) account of several of the most notorious history scandals of the last few years. Focusing on a dozen key controversies ranging across the political spectrum and representing a wide array of charges, Wiener seeks to understand why some cases make the headlines and end careers, while others do not. He looks at the well-publicized cases of Michael Bellesiles, the historian of gun culture accused of research fraud; accused plagiarists and "celebrity historians" Stephen Ambrose and Doris Kearns Goodwin; Pulitzer Prize-winner Joseph J. Ellis, who lied in his classroom at Mount Holyoke about having fought in Vietnam; and the allegations of misconduct by Harvard's Stephan Thernstrom and Emory's Elizabeth Fox-Genovese, who nevertheless were appointed by George W. Bush to the National Council on the Humanities. As the Bancroft Prize-winning historian Linda Gordon wrote in Dissent, Wiener's "very readable book...reveals not only scholarly misdeeds but also recent increases in threats to free debate and intellectual integrity." About the Author Jon Wiener is a professor of history at the University of California at Irvine and a contributing editor to The Nation. The author of several books, including Gimme Some Truth, Come Together, and Professors, Politics, and Pop, he lives in Los Angeles. 14UrquhartFor information re the North American Indian, members may wish to check out: Handbook of the North American Indians William C. Sturtevant, General Editor A 20-volume encyclopedia summarizing knowledge about all Native peoples north of Mesoamerica, including cultures, languages, history, prehistory, and human biology. Standard reference work for anthropologists, historians, students, and the general reader. Chapters by the main authorities on each topic. Area volumes include separate chapters on all tribes. Heavily illustrated, extensive bibliographies, well indexed. Each volume may be purchased and used independently. These volumes can be ordered online through the Superintendent of Documents. Vol. 2: Indians in Contemporary Society The 46 chapters in this volume explore how Indians and Arctic peoples maintain their Native identity in contemporary societies, including their responses to the social forces around them. The major sections include The Issues in the United States, The Issues in Canada, Demographic and Ethnic Issues, and Social and Cultural Revitalization. 589 pp. S/N 047-000-00417-9. 2008. $64. $89.60 international price. Vol. 3: Environment, Origins, and Population Douglas H. Ubelaker, Vol. Ed. 72 chapters on the natural environment of the continent to which Indian cultures adapted in prehistoric and historic times, natural resources utilized by these cultures, current knowledge of the earliest Indian occupation (before 9,000 B.C.), and human biology of Indian and Eskimo (Inuit) populations, prehistoric, historic and modern. 1,160 pp. S/N 047-000-00416-1. 2006. $72. Vol 4: History of Indian-White Relations Wilcomb E. Washburn, Vol. Ed. 57 chapters on the history of Indian-White relations in the U.S. and Canada following 1492. 838 pp. S/N 047-000-00406-3. 1988. $62 Vol. 5: Arctic David Damas, Vol. Ed. 60 chapters on Eskimo, Inuit, Aleut of U.S., Canada, Greenland, U.S.S.R. 845 pp. S/N 047-000-00398-9. 1984. $63 Vol. 6: Subarctic June Helm, Vol. Ed. 66 chapters on Indians from interior Alaska to Labrador. 837 pp. S/N 047-000-00374-1. 1981. $62 Vol. 7: Northwest Coast Wayne Suttles, Vol. Ed. 58 chapters on Indians of the coasts of southeast Alaska, British Columbia, Washington, and Oregon. 796 pp. S/N 047-000-00408-0. 1990. $62 Vol. 8: California Robert F. Heizer, Vol. Ed. 72 chapters on Indians of California. 816 pp. S/N 047-000-00347-4. 1978. $62 Vol. 9: Southwest Alfonso Ortiz, Vol. Ed. 59 chapters on Puebloan peoples and prehistory of southwestern U.S. and northern Mexico. 717 pp. S/N 047-000-00361-0. 1979. $59.50 Vol. 10: Southwest Alfonso Ortiz, Vol. Ed. 56 chapters on non-Puebloan peoples and on economy, social organization, and rituals of southwestern U.S. and northern Mexico. 884 pp. S/N 047-000-00390-3. 1983. $63 Vol. 11: Great Basin Warren L. d'Azevedo, Vol. Ed. 45 chapters on Indians of Utah, Nevada, and portions of adjoining states. 868 pp. S/N 047-000-00401-2. 1986. $63 Vol. 12: Plateau Deward E. Walker, Jr., Vol. Ed. 41 chapters on Indians of southeastern British Columbia, eastern Washington, northeast and central Oregon, northern Idaho, western Montana, and a small portion of northern California. 808 pp. S/N 047-000-00412-8. 1988. $67 Vol. 13: Plains Raymond J. DeMallie, Vol. Ed. 67 chapters on the Indians of the prairie and high plains of U.S. and Canada. Parts 1 and 2 compose the one volume. 1,376 pp. S/N 047-000-00414-4. 2001. $106 Vol. 14: Southeast Raymond D. Fogelson, Vol. Ed. 64 chapters on Indians from Florida and the southern Appalachians and the Carolina Piedmont to the southern Mississippi River Valley. 1,042 pp. S/N 047-000-00415-2. 2004. $72. Errata page. Vol. 15: Northeast Bruce G. Trigger, Vol. Ed. 73 chapters on Indians from Virginia to St. Lawrence River, Great Lakes, Ohio Valley, Illinois. 924 pp. S/N 047-000-00351-2. 1978. $64 Vol. 17: Languages Ives Goddard, Vol. Ed. 27 chapters on native languages of North America spoken by American Indians, Eskimos, and Aleuts. Fold-out, color, volume map. 958 pp. S/N 047-000-00411-0. 1996. $89.50 See- http://anthropology.si.edu/handbook.htm 15UrquhartPattern and Repertoire in History by Roehner and Syme, Harvard University Press, 2002. This is a difficult book to read. As the authors themselves state: "Nobody would expect a book about geodynamics, chemistry, or astrophysics to make “pleasant reading.” Such a book may prove fascinating because of the new understanding it permits, but all readers accept that a good amount of work is needed to acquire that understanding. . I found the work too abstruse for me to comment on. Possibly others with better minds will be able to better understand this book. For my part, I wish them well in doing so and await their clearer grasp of the book than I am able to provide. People may wish to read excerpts from the book and judge for themselves whether they would like to spend more time on this particular school of historiography. ix We show that by breaking up complex historical phenomena into simpler “modules,” it becomes possible to study the latter from the point of view of sociology. In this way, historical sociology can aspire to bridging the long-standing gap between history and sociology. Sometimes, especially when we want to refer to the decomposition of a historical episode into simpler components, we use the expression “analytical history”; the field of analytical history should be seen as a branch, a ramification, of historical sociology. 5 In fact the rule that a problem should be divided “into as many parts as would be required for a better solution’ was stated more than three centuries ago by the philosopher and scientist Descartes (1637). Subsequently the term “modular approach” has been used to refer to the decomposition of a complex phenomenon into simpler ones. 6 Let us come back to the example of the French Revolution in order to examine how our ideas about simplicity and modularity can be adapted to history. We have already mentioned three possible modules, namely, the meetings of the Estates-General, the confiscation of Church estates, and the Parisian insurrection……In this book we use the term “analytical history” to refer to the study of the modules composing a complex phenomenon… It remains to show how these different modules can be studied seperately and to examine what can be learned from such a modular approach. For purposes of illustration, we consider the meeting of the Estates-General. 7 Selected Components of the French Revolution ….Public Debt … Price increase for grains ……. Meeting of the Estates-General …………. Insurrection of Parisian population …………………Unrest in the countryside (Great Fear) ………………………Confiscation of Church’s estates ……………………………King’s failed flight 24 in Aldous Huxley’s words, “the fact that men gain little profit from the lessons of history is the most important lesson that history teaches us.” 48 Determining Modules How can we know which historical analogies will reveal significant patterns and which are merely trivial?…Some sensible rules that we have already mentioned are 1-to consider a sharply defined phenomenon that 2) has occurred several times (the standard ‘large N’ condition) and for which 3) there are accurate and possible quantitative historical sources. Taken together, these criteria provide valuable, practical guidelines and narrow the field of research. Any study conducted along such lines will produce useful and non-trivial results. 49 From a more technical perspective there are basically two ways to decompose complex historical phenomena into simpler modules. First, the decomposition can be made on a chronological basis. Thus a complex sequence of events can be decomposed into separated episodes. Second, the decomposition can be accomplished by breaking up a large class of events ( for example, strike) into smaller subsets….. 365 “Sympathy with our approach, we have discovered, does not necessarily make for ease of reading. Our methodology may be challenging at times. It also, however, leads to rewards difficult to obtain by other means. : : Nobody would expect a book about geodynamics, chemistry, or astrophysics to make “pleasant reading.” Such a book may prove fascinating because of the new understanding it permits, but all readers accept that a good amount of work is needed to acquire that understanding. The present book ….presupposes some acquaintance with a great variety of historical backgrounds, a requirement that may make reading it demanding at times. : : Historical sociology is less like physics.. and more like meteorology, a field in which there has been steady progress and less dramatic achievement. : : We have…concentrated on patterns, on the question of “how.” ……For historically minded readers, it may be frustrating to leave the “why” question untouched, despite the insight the “how” answers may provide. They note the need to develop what they call 367 a Very Large Chronicle (VLC) that could play the same role for historians as observatories do for astronomers. 378 Table 9.4 From qualitative history to analytical history Qualitative history Narrative of isolated events Quantitative history Quantitative description of isolate events (climetrics) Comparative history Comparison of a given phenomenon in different countries Analytical history/Historical sociology Quantitative comparison of several modules and building blocks (“simple” mechanisms) 378 The objective of analytical history is to define and analyze building blocks, modules, and simple patterns. ///////////////////////// If members are familiar with this book and would care to comment, I would certainly welcome hearing from them. 16carmodyFrom the excerpts quoted it sounds as if the authors' views are one of breaking down certain historical events into modules the same way we do in computer programming. Then comparing the different modules. 17UrquhartYes, you are right. They refer to Selected Components of the French Revolution listed above as modules as well. Also, in the book is mention of being predictive in history. They discuss how very accurate Winston Churchill and Charles de Gaulle were in their predictions before WWII about the course of the war. They mention that both were very well read in history and that their 'intuition' was uncannily correct. 19UrquhartOK, this is for you folks who have time to spare and just enjoy a casual read at bedtime. It's admittedly a bit weird but I enjoy it.....here goes. Somewhere on this blog I reviewed The Hindus by author Wendy Doniger. In her kind response that I posted somewhere she talked about reading the back of the book first..... So reading the back of the book first is a bit advanced for me but I am starting to read the back of the books I read like 1491 after I have read the book and it is really fascinating. I mean you have to have time for this stuff, but if you take the time, it is like reading a whole discussion of the author's process, as with 1491. Also, I have just finished the footnotes at the back of the book for the Penguin Classics edition of Lewis Carroll - Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking-Glass. This also a fascinating portal into his process of writing and it becomes obvious how clearly and obviously J.K. Rowling used the works of Lewis Carroll for her Harry Potter series. Fascinating stuff; I love to look at an authors' process...but as I said some will find it weird. 20UrquhartThere is a new book by Margaret MacMillan just released and I know we have some big Macmillan fans so just a heads up here. I will pick up my copy at the library on Monday. Her website: http://www.margaretmacmillan.com/ Her book: The Uses and Abuses of History A Synopsis: History is useful when it is used properly: to understand why we and those we must deal with think and react in certain ways. It can offer examples to inform our decisions and guesses about the consequences of our actions. But we should be wary of looking to history for dogmatic lessons.We should distrust those who abuse history when they call on it to justify unreasonable claims to land, for example, or restitution. MacMillan illustrates how dangerous history can be in the hands of nationalistic or religious or ethnic leaders who use it to foster a sense of grievance and a desire for revenge. About the author Margaret MacMillan was educated at the University of Toronto and at Oxford, where she obtained a B. Phil. in politics and a D. Phil. for a thesis on the British in India between 1880 and 1920. She is the editor of Canada and NATO and the author of Paris 1919: Six Months That Changed the World, which won the 2003 Governor General's Award, the Samuel Johnson Prize, the PEN Hessell Tiltman Prize, the Duff Cooper Prize and was a New York Times Editors' Choice for 2002. Currently, MacMillan lives in Toronto, and is provost of Trinity College and professor of history at the University of Toronto. In 2007, she will become the Warden of St. Anthony’s College, Oxford University. 21ElenaGwynneThe Uses And Abuses of History has been out for a little while now and is now available in Trade Paperback (at least in Canada). I will agree that it looks fascinating though, and I'd bet, given how readable Women of the Raj was, that it'll be a really good read. 22UrquhartYes, as you say and I did not know: "The Uses And Abuses of History has been out for a little while now and is now available in Trade Paperback (at least in Canada)." This 2009 release is the first for the book in hard back in the US. It is a thin book so I will be able to tell all shortly. 23TLCrawfordI took a look at it and sent it right into my wishlist. Keep the great recomendations coming. 24UrquhartMargaret Macmillan is one of the outstanding historians of today; widely read and highly revered. The recent book Dangerous Games by Margaret Macmillan was originally published in Canada in 2008 by Viking and in 2009 has been published by Modern Library in the US. As she state it “grew out of an invitation …received from the History Dept. at the University of Western Ontario to give the Joanne Goodman lectures in the fall of 2007…a wonderful opportunity to reflect on a subject of my own choosing.” It is a thin book (numbering less than 170 pages) that can charitably characterized as being a bit thin on content. In the art world, some artists divide their work into those pieces that can be quickly produced and so require only limited time skill and expertise. Matisse and Picasso are artists that come to mind who knew that concept produced accordingly. They of course also had their other works that had greater depth and breadth and for which they are well known. I am sure much the same method of production can be said of historians, viz., that there are the serious tomes that they produce, such as books like Paris 1919 and Nixon and Mao, by which their stature is established in the field and that along with those wonderful works are books they produce that are short and keep the money coming in. After all, everyone has to pay for food. Yes, she discusses the different uses and misuses of history that nations at different times have been guilty of. The histories of most major nations (Canada, China, England, France) and many minor ones such as Serbia, Greece, are touched on and inconsistencies noted. However, in the end her book does not seem to share any new revelations or ground breaking observation that one may have hoped for. Possibly Dangerous Games was a little too adventuresome a title for a book such as this. For the record, the three page listing at the back entitled Further Reading is one of the most interesting parts of the book. It draws together so many new and old titles and authors that someone interested in history may well wish to savor in a depth in a way that this book does not. Margaret Macmillan will of course go on to write more splendid histories of great worth that people can relish. However this is not a book that most readers of history need add to their TBR pile. 25UrquhartFor WWII buffs; note to be published in 2011. The road to hell Jul 23rd 2009 From The Economist print edition A British historian argues that Hitler lost the war for the same reason that he unleashed it—because he was a Nazi The Storm of War: A New History of the Second World War. By Andrew Roberts. Allen Lane; 712 pages; £25. To be published in America by HarperCollins in 2011. Buy from Amazon.co.uk ONLY a highly confident historian would set out to write a one-volume history of the second world war. And only a highly accomplished one could produce a book that manages to be distinctive but not eccentric, comprehensive in scope but not cramped by detail, giving due weight both to the extraordinary personalities and to the blind economic and physical forces involved. Andrew Roberts certainly does not lack confidence and his talents are well suited to the task. His speciality is the bold sweep of narrative history, marshalling hard facts and telling anecdotes to support big judgments. For modern academic historians, his work is a bit adventurous: far safer to narrow down research to, say, the study of medieval nail prices in rural Wales. The big theme of his new book is the interplay between Hitler’s personality and Nazi Germany’s fortunes on the battlefield. In brief, Mr Roberts argues that the war started when it did because Hitler was a Nazi, and that Germany lost it for the same reason. The Nazi leader’s blunders started when he began to turn his anti- Semitic rhetoric into practice, driving many of Germany’s best brains into exile. The allies won because “our German scientists were better than their German scientists”, was the pithy summary of the war’s outcome by one of Churchill’s closest aides, Sir Ian Jacob. Excellent German engineering and ruthless use of forced labour was not enough to make up for the drain of so many clever people into exile or concentration camps. A conservative-nationalist war leadership, unshackled by Hitler’s lunatic prejudices, could have developed advanced weapons far faster, perhaps even cracking the atom. Hitler also started the war rather too early. A bigger and better U-boat fleet, for example, could have starved and crippled Britain. Sometimes he dithered, allowing the British army to escape from Dunkirk in 1940. More often it was impatience that was ruinous. Had the Axis powers finished off the British in north Africa first, they could have attacked Russia from the south as well as the east. Hitler’s “stand or die” orders gravely hampered the war in the east once the tide turned. His gratuitous decision to declare war on the United States after Pearl Harbour was another catastrophe (he regarded America as a military weakling). His failure to encourage Japan to attack the Soviet Union was similarly disastrous. Mr Roberts likes punchy pronouncements and there are some fine ones here. After Japan’s initial military successes, previously contemptuous outsiders changed their minds: “From being a bandy kneed, myopic, oriental midget in Western eyes, the Japanese soldier was suddenly transformed into an invincible, courageous superman.” On Hitler’s geeky knowledge of military hardware, which led him constantly to second-guess his generals, he writes: “Because a trainspotter can take down the number of a train in his notebook it doesn’t mean he can drive one.” The author’s research brings to light some startling facts. Even war buffs may be surprised to learn that the supposedly supine Vichy regime in France executed German spies, or that more Frenchmen fought on the Axis side than with the Allies. A nutty British official in charge of Malta put Sabbath observance ahead of unloading ships, at terrible cost. Another nearly lost the vital battle for Kohima, the gateway to India, because he wanted to keep to peacetime rules restricting the use of barbed wire. Orde Wingate, the hero of the Chindits’ campaign in Burma, was an ardent nudist who never bathed. (He scrubbed himself with a stiff brush, instead.) Mr Roberts is the first historian to gain access to a huge trove of personal letters and other documents assembled over 35 years by Ian Sayer, a British transport tycoon. Extracts provide Mr Roberts with some of his most telling personal anecdotes. The most controversial part of the book will be the author’s unflinching judgments about the great controversies of the war. He briskly defends dropping atom bombs on Japan; after Okinawa, the price of a conventional assault looked particularly hideous. A test detonation would have been folly. America had only two bombs, and it was the second that (narrowly) persuaded Japan to surrender. On the allied bombing of Dresden he assembles a formidable array of facts and arguments against the post-war second-guessers who see it as a war crime. He notes that a German bombing raid on Yugoslavia in 1941 killed nearly as many people. Few remember, or complain, about that. On other issues, though, he is more counter-intuitive. He does not believe, for example, that the Soviet army’s inaction during the Warsaw uprising in 1944 was a cynical attempt to let the Nazis deal with the anticommunist Polish resistance: the real reason was that the Red Army’s lines of communication had been overstretched by its rapid advance westward. Mr Roberts hops nimbly between the Pacific and the Atlantic, though Asian readers may feel a bit shortchanged: the fighting in China gets particularly short shrift. Again and again he chides his readers for overestimating the importance of famous British and American battles in the West and overlooking much larger ones on the eastern front: more than 2m Germans were killed in the east, over ten times the number who died fighting in the west. “Britain provided the time, Russia the blood, America the money and the weapons,” he concludes. He presents stylish penmanship, gritty research and lucid reasoning, coupled with poignant and haunting detours into private lives ruined and shortened. Mr Roberts shows boyish pleasure and admiration at the great feats of arms he describes. But the underlying tones of this magnificent book are in a minor key: furious sorrow at the waste of it all. Correction: the date of the punitive German bombing raid on Yugoslavia was 1941, not 1940 as originally stated. This was corrected on July 24th 2009. 26Urquhart"The allies won because “our German scientists were better than their German scientists”, was the pithy summary of the war’s outcome by one of Churchill’s closest aides, Sir Ian Jacob." Was it due to the German education system or superior genes? 27walf6Our most celebrated German scientist was of Jewish heritage. That would seem to disqualify the gene theory. 29LamSonI would like to recomend Vietnam The History of an Unwinnable War 1945-1975 by John Prados. I am about 1/3 the way through. I think it is a good one volume history of the war; it is quite comprehensive. Because the book is so densely packed with information, it would probably be helpful to have read some shorter works before taking this one on. The notes and bibliography are almost worth the cover price. 30Mr.DurickLamSon, if Vietnam: The History of an Unwinnable War holds up, please put it in your list on your profile. There is one reviewer at Barnes and Noble who, possibly for political reasons, disputes the value of the book; I wonder whether there is any substance to his review. Robert 31UrquhartThis Time is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly is a history book about now and that what we are all experiencing in this Recession is history repeating itself. Sounds fascinating to me.l For reviews of the book you may wish to go to: http://www.amazon.com/This-Time-Different-Centuries-Financial/product-reviews/06... 33UrquhartThe following book is probably Off Topic but for many guys here I am sure there are those of us who have read about different battles and have a curiosity re war and what it is really like. The book is by Chris Hedges and is called, What Every Person Should Know About War It is an extremely thoroughly documented book of 120 pages based on official armed services records since WWII. I found it both chilling and eye opening. The following are just a few quotes to give you an idea.
Some of our veteran members may wish to add or correct some of the above. 34OldSargeEven with real treatment, therapy not just meds, PTSD from combat is with you for life. My father and his brother had symptoms of it all their lives. I'm now dealing with it myself. It's not fun and I'm tired of folks who tell me I should just get over it. Loud sudden noises, sirens, and the idiot kids down the block who deliberately step out in front of me in the dark as I'm driving by set me off into adrenaline overload. 35UrquhartOldSarge thanks for your contribution. We all remain grateful to you and everyone who has served. I believe this book should be required reading for people of all countries to read. Ur. 36wildbillI think Mr. Hedges book should be required reading for everyone in positions of political leadership. Anyone whose decisions can start a war should know what happens to those who are called to serve. 37UrquhartTwo new books for those interested in history and/or war. All reviews from Amazon. Coming in March:
38UrquhartNEW LIBBY PRISON BREAKOUT The Daring Escape from the Notorious Civil War Prison JOSEPH WHEELAN SUMMARY | EXCERPT A suspenseful narrative of an exhilarating moment during the Civil War—the February 1864 escape of 109 Union officers from "The Bastille of the South" While many books have been inspired by the horrors of Andersonville prison, none have chronicled with any depth or detail the amazing tunnel escape from Libby Prison in Richmond. Now Joseph Wheelan examines what became the most important escape of the Civil War from a Confederate prison, one that ultimately increased the North's and South's willingness to use prisoners in waging "total war." In a converted tobacco warehouse, Libby's 1,200 Union officers survived on cornbread and bug-infested soup, and slept without blankets on the bare floor. With prisoner exchanges suspended, escape and death were the only ways out. Libby Prison Breakout recounts the largely unknown story of the escape of 109 steel-nerved officers through a 55-foot tunnel, and their flight in winter through the heart of the enemy homeland, amid an all-out Rebel manhunt. The officers' later testimony in Washington spurred two far-reaching investigations and a new cycle of retaliation against Rebel captives. Joseph Wheelan, a former Associated Press reporter and editor, is the author of Mr. Adams's Last Crusade, Invading Mexico, Jefferson's War, and Jefferson's Vendetta. He lives in Cary, North Carolina. 39UrquhartThis book came out a few months back and looks good from the reviews on Amazon. China: A History, John Keay (Author) Editorial Reviews Review Library Journal “Without sacrificing substance for brevity, Keay manages to illustrate China’s history very much as a narrative... Readers already interested in, or wishing newly to embark upon, Chinese history will adore this book. Highly recommended.” Philadelphia Inquirer “China: A History marks a welcome advance… Keay’s touch is deft and faithful to the tenor of the debates, especially those between archaeologists and literary scholars.” Product Description Many nations define themselves in terms of territory or people; China defines itself in terms of history. With the world’s longest tradition of history-writing, its extraordinary past ought to be common knowledge. China, by the eminent historian John Keay, should make it so. Informed by the latest research and enlivened by wit and anecdote, Keay’s narrative spans 5,000 years, from the Three Dynasties (2000–220 BC) to Deng Xiaoping’s opening of China and the past three decades of economic growth. Broadly chronological, the book presents a history of all the Chinas—including regions (Yunnan, Tibet, Xinjiang, Mongolia, Manchuria) that account for two-thirds of the People’s Republic of China land mass but which barely feature in its conventional history. Crisp, judicious, and engaging, China is destined to become the classic single-volume history for anyone seeking to understand the past, present, and future of this immensely powerful nation. 40UrquhartFrom the looks of it I am the only person here with any interest in the American Civil War. So, probably no one will care about this new book: The American Civil War by John Keegan. It is not a book that gets bogged down in this battle and that date, but rather looks at the major themes of the Civil War and what conclusions can be drawn. Among the themes covered are: Black soldiers, Civil War Generalship, Civil War Battle, and could the South Have Survived? One particularly interesting observation is the following from the last 2 pgs. in his book. I would be interested to hear the views of people on his perspective:
edit to include the entire last paragraph of the book. 41wildbillI should preface my comments by saying that I did not enjoy Keegan's book. I find it hard to believe that the American Civil War caused the failure of socialism to develop in America. My point of view is that in America there is a great belief in social and economic mobility. People are more concerned with personal advancement than the improvement of conditions for the working class. That may or may not be realistic but that appears to be the American ideology. I also do not see the connection between the development of a socialist movement and the experience of military life. The men who fought at Shiloh and Gettysburg were not going to be socialists based upon their cultural background not because of their military experience. 43Chris469I heard her interviewed by Bob Edwards on his XM Sirius satellite radio program a month or so back. Book sounds VERY interesting. Especially powerful were her comments about the tribulations of a famine that took place a few years ago that the North Koreans had to endure. Mainly it's interesting to have any kind of reporting on North Korea at all, given how little news we get from there. A bizarre and frightening place. 44LamSon>43 I am currently readingEscaping North Korea. Mike Kim started an organization to work with refugees crossing from NK into China. There are a lot of stories from refugees about life inside. It is a very grim place. 45cstebbinsUrquhart asked for people's views on the quotation from Mr. Keegan's book. I have not read the book so understand that it is possible that I don't know what I'm talking about. However, the question seems to invite an answer even from those who haven't read the book, if only for purposes of provoking discussion. I really wonder if any supporting evidence was supplied in Mr. Keegan's book for his idea that the War Between the States destroyed the potential for socialism in this country in the late 19th century. It is very difficult for me to imagine that a single piece of evidence could be found for this thesis, which is why I ask. It seems to me that this extraordinarily silly idea of Mr. Keegan's shows only that in the current vastly inflated state of the market for all kinds of nonfiction, there is no idea so absurd that it cannot find an exponent willing to make a profit from selling books putting it forward. You might just as well argue that the War led to Quaker Oats or a taste for French cooking. 46Mr.DurickI also have not read Keegan's book. I have read the citation. I do not think it can legitimately be dismissed with a mere denial. The Revolution was a keen idea as well a historical event as recently as my childhood, and the Civil War was a horror in the personal experiences of people from huge swaths of the United States well into the Great Depression. The early twentieth century riots may have reminded folk that shedding blood in a cause is not fun. It has seemed, and this is widely reported, that everybody, approximately speaking, in America would like to be rich themselves. None of them want their long desired treasure to be messed with by the government. (A lot of those who pulled themselves up, sadly, having been poor themselves, would have antipathy to the remaining poor.) So living in a society that could be toppled, probably, only by violence and which offered considerable opportunity for advancement, tough though working life was, was and is not something to be dismissed. Recent climaxes in the socialism of corporate risk and in economic hardship for large parts of the people may finally change attitudes to risk. It remains to be seen. Robert 47UrquhartIn answer to cstebbins comments, no, there is no more supportive material to the comment. I bet Daniel would not let his students or us get away such comments without legitimate evidence to back it up. Daniel, are you out there? Also, here is another quote, again the whole paragraph, in much the same flippant style as that previously quoted. Two comments worth noting: 1-Keegan is a very high profile historian 2-In his bibliography he gives this web address as one of his sources- http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/ As noted in these threads before, a good place to begin reading a history book is in its bibliography. The following is re the Southern lady and uses much the same logic:
I don't believe we have any Southern ladies in the group but I am just fascinated with what they would say about that comment. 48Chris469I've observed that a certain breed of Southern women are noticeably different than northern women, particularly in older south regions such as the Carolinas, Virginia, Mobile Alabama, but I'm not sure I buy Keegan's theory as to why they are different. I haven't read Keegan's book on the Civil War. One review I read said he's pretty good in writing the military history and recounting the battles and campaigns, but that he sucks when it comes to the political backdrop and background and analysis of the bigger issues and causes of the conflict. It's pointed out that he says at the outset that his is to be a military history, but he apparently delves into the wider political analysis from time to time anyway, where he displays misinformation and gets it mostly wrong. At least according to the review I read. 49JFCooper>47 and 45 It's an interesting point from which to start a discussion or investigation, for sure. I would not expect a position like that to have a lot of direct factual support. That is to say, I don't think any Southerners in the late 19th century were actually saying to themselves, "Hey guys we need to make sure America does not take up Socialism as a serious political and economic endeavor." Indeed, they were busy with making sure the racial status quo remained locked in and tending to agricultural work. However, the position of states' rights and "liberty" as a different concept than "freedom" have very individualistic connotations. Because the Reconstruction Era was really about forcing the South to come to heel with regard to ending slavery and allowing African Americans to vote and participate in politics, white southerners came to despise Federal Government intrusion into the livelihoods. Certainly, any political influence they wielded after 1877 would have been to limit the role of the Federal Government. Having said all that, I think the Constitution itself is a more powerful deterent to socialism than the South in the late 19th century. It sets up tensions in the government disallowing the full blown reforming of American political and economic institutions. Italy, a parliamentary system, has had more than 200 governments since 1943. The United States, a democratically elected constitutional republic, has had 2 national governments since 1777, the Articles of Confederation Congress and the Federal Government. To be fair, Virginia played a powerful and crucial role in developing the Constitution. George Mason, George Washington, James Madison are at the top there. In developing American Federalism in the early 19th century Washington (again), Jefferson, Madison (again), and James Monroe were all Virginians. Jefferson was committed to keeping VA in control of the Federal Gov't as long as possible. He threw over Aaron Burr for James Madison, bucking the slight precedent of having the Vice-President succeed the President after his term(s). So the South, particularly Virginia, was in an indirect way responsible for the creation of a system that discourages wholesale political changes or large scale experiments that would be necessary to adopt socialism. Just my $.02 Daniel Daniel 50cstebbinsI've been thinking more about the WBTS-socialism connection or lack of same, and I remembered that Harry Turtledove's How Few Remain (to my mind the best of his books) has the failure of the North to prevail leading to a powerful socialist movement in the North shortly thereafter. It seems to me he has Lincoln himself surviving and becoming a socialist, but I may be wrong about that. I bet Keegan read that book. I suppose the point would be that in the real world the victory of Northern capital in the war made money too strong to allow for any popular anti-capitalist movement. Still seems pretty outlandish to me. I agree that the victory of Northern money interests was pretty complete and crushing, but I don't see why that would have much to do with suppressing socialism. After all, even with the South KO'd for a long time, there was still a lot of country out there. Also I know that in the immediate prewar years the opinion grew in the South that slavery or something like it was the solution to the strife of capital and labor. 51JFCooper>50 A work of Historical Fantasy is a difficult base for a theory of economic history. I think Turtledove might agree. You're not starting from demonstrable fact, you're starting from someone else's supposition. A supposition that was created to entertain rather than inform. My point was not that the capitalists were in ascension post Civil War, though, you're right they were. And I find your assessment of "outlandish" regarding to their power of stopping socialism in its tracks one that ignores rather concrete evidence in the other direction. Evidence like the Homestead Strike. There were pitched battles between labor unions and militias/pinkertons/national guard units. And the unions always lost in the end. Andrew Carnegie basically paid one set of people to kill another, and with help from state and federal governments the practice of violent strike breaking worked very well. So well that labor unions stayed small and politically weak until the end of World War 2. But none of that was the point I was trying to make. No, the point I was trying to make is that the Constitution itself puts roadblocks in front of efforts to bring wholesale change to American politics and economics. For a very good example of this look at the current health care program debate. Daniel 52dajashbyTihis level of discussion is a bit much for my poor brain at this time of a Sunday morning, but it's making me think anyway. The conventional wisdom here is that much of the difference between Australians and Americans is the result of the differences in the early settlement experience. Americans had the Wild West, a man and his partner against the world and not too much imposition of civil order by a central government. In Australia white settlement was much more orderly, with the various colonial governments reasonably in control, or at least thinking they were. Some historian, can't remember who, once described the bush in the 1890s as "a rural oligarchy tempered by Bryant & May" (match manufacturers). The ethos that developed was a man and his mates (the workers, especially the unionised shearers) against the squatters (the big pastoralists, the bosses). Mateship, particularly in rural areas where it has a strong hold to this day, is essentially a form of socialism. Farmers have always organised themselves into co-operatives, agrarian socialism of the finest sort. The group takes precedence over the individual, as a survival mechanism. It took hold in the cities and for most of the twentieth century the trades unions were a powerful force in Australian politics. This is not the place to discuss the present situation. Whatever, compared to Americans Australians have lower expectations of individual effort and higher expectations of groups, especially governments at all levels, although in emergency situations - fires, floods - they will pitch in as a community to a remarkable degree, without waiting for the government. But woe betide the government that does not follow up with generous relief packages. However, where it's not an emergency there is the expectation that "the government" should fix things, combined with the concept, by no means dead, of the "fair go" which abhors things like a totally deregulated labour market (and arguably brought down the last federal government). What I am trying to say, in my slightly befuddled state, is that I have never given any thought to the role that the Civil War might have played in the American attitude to unionism, let alone socialism. Never occurred to me that there could be any connection. I shall follow the debate with interest. 53UrquhartThis new book may be of special interest to folks here: Our Documents which as the Touchstone says has the 100 milestone docs for this country. In addition to the usual docs that you would expect it has such items as the Zimmerman Telegram and the Andrew Jackson 'Indian Removal' declaration which you may not have run across in your readings. I will post them for you in other threads. 54UrquhartA new book by Seymour Morris called American History revised: 200 Startling Facts that Never made it into the Textbooks From the Amazon review: "This spirited reexamination of American history (1776-2000) digs deep into our past to expose 200 startling facts that never made it into the textbooks, and highlights how little-known individuals and events played surprisingly influential roles in the great American story. " more: http://www.amazon.com/American-History-Revised-Startling-Textbooks/dp/0307587606 55UrquhartAlso There is Winston's War: Churchill, 1940-45 by Max Hastings. No Tourchstone available.
57marqIf you found The Iliad and the The Odyssey magnificent I think you would also enjoy the Greek tragedies. Mostly they are about the same people in The Iliad as they return or try to return home after the defeat of Troy. The background idea is that they are cursed for the sacrileges that were performed during the siege. I recommend The Theban Plays (The Oedipus Trilogy) by Sophocles. Another classical "sequel" to Homer's epics is The Aeneid by Virgil. This was written much later (during the reign of Augustus) but it tells the story of Aeneas and his followers. They are Trojan refugees who travel west in the Mediterranean, to Carthage and ultimately to found Rome. 58MarianVTo return to the "Socialist" discussion. What I was taught in school was that the act that guaranteed 160 acres to any man who was willing to build a house on it & cultivate it for 7 years would then own it. Many veterans of both sides of the Civil War headed west. Thepromise of free land lured city dwellers who might have lived on farms in the old country that were part of a nobleman's estate. Why would a poor, laboring man join in a socialists ' moverment when all he had to do was move to the west & claim his free land. That is the main reason why socialism never becamea big factor in US politics & only a moderate factor after WW1 when the good land was gone & there was no more frontier. 59dajashby>58 It can't be that simple. A similar situation applied in Australia. The people who took up the land were called "selectors"; others who were a bit faster got in first and occupied the best land and refused to move, becoming known as "squatters". These latter usually became prosperous and constituted a powerful oligarchy, the basis of today's "old money" elite, whereas the former - colloquially known to this day as "cockies" - often struggled to survive. They developed a form of agrarian socialism that is with us still, both in the form of grassroots co-operatives and all sorts of government subsidies and protective tariffs (not unheard of in the US). It occurs to me that perhaps the lack of a sheep industry in the US may be of significance. The most famous early struggles to unionise labour in this country involved not the urban proletariat but the shearers. Drovers and stockmen, like your cowboys, were never engaged in industrial disputes. Whatever, there is a definite difference which unquestionably has historical origins, though the exact nature of those origins is open to debate. Americans do seem to have a peculiarly Pavlovian aversion to the very mention of socialism. I remember that when Obama was on the campaign trail he got merry hell for telling somebody in passing that he believed in spreading the wealth around, a perfectly harmless observation to Australian ears. Surely that's what you pay taxes for? 60dajashby>58 It can't be that simple. A similar situation applied in Australia. The people who took up the land were called "selectors"; others who were a bit faster got in first and occupied the best land and refused to move, becoming known as "squatters". These latter usually became prosperous and constituted a powerful oligarchy, the basis of today's "old money" elite, whereas the former - colloquially known to this day as "cockies" - often struggled to survive. They developed a form of agrarian socialism that is with us still, both in the form of grassroots co-operatives and all sorts of government subsidies and protective tariffs (not unheard of in the US). It occurs to me that perhaps the lack of a sheep industry in the US may be of significance. The most famous early struggles to unionise labour in this country involved not the urban proletariat but the shearers. Drovers and stockmen, like your cowboys, were never engaged in industrial disputes. Whatever, there is a definite difference which unquestionably has historical origins, though the exact nature of those origins is open to debate. Americans do seem to have a peculiarly Pavlovian aversion to the very mention of socialism. I remember that when Obama was on the campaign trail he got merry hell for telling somebody in passing that he believed in spreading the wealth around, a perfectly harmless observation to Australian ears. Surely that's what you pay taxes for? 61xenchu59-60> No, it wasn't that simple. But there was a lot of good land in the Old West. You didn't have to rush for it just after the Civil War. As far as I know, there was no land-rush until the 1890's. You went and staked your claim. There was fighting against both Indians and Cattle Barons but that was not typical. In the US most attempts at unionization (socialism?) were in mines and factories. I have not heard or read of union attempts with sheepherders or cowboys. 62TLCrawfordWhat about co-operatives? There were a lot of agricultural co-operatives that sprang up in the United States during the Progressive Era and, at the time, they would qualify as worker owned and therefore Socialist. 63UrquhartHi Folks, This subject seems to have some life in it so I am starting a separate thread on it: America and Socialism 64UrquhartThe heading for this thread is History Books: New, General...and the following book that came out in 2002 would be in the General category and yet very up to date and topical. The book is War is a force that gives us meaning by Chris Hedges. If you can't handle blood and gore I would stay away from this, however, I think most of the people in this group can handle it. I just finished it and loved the book since it turns out Hedges loves The Iliad and refers to it on three occasions. However his main theme is war and how nations have used it historically and how people view it. Then he moves on to discuss what war is really like versus the public perception. I would add one point in closing and that is that Chris Hedges has the unique ability to synthesize great works and make them relevant to today. His references to Homer and to Shakespere as well as his citing of examples of over 15 years of his experience in the battle fields does give it a unique credibility. I think it should be required reading for people from all countries. 65Mr.DurickLibraryThing is fairly certain that I will love this book despite that the reviews made me think it iffy. I put it on my wishlist; I have no idea when I will get around to it. It will almost certainly be after I read at least one full account of the Battle of Kurukshetra Thanks for the reference. Robert 66UrquhartRobert, which 'full account' will it be that you read? I am curious. Just a reminder, if you want to read a really good historian on the Indian history do keep in mind the works of Wendy Daniger and her recent book The Hindus: An Alternative History'. 67Mr.DurickI have read that Doniger book and maybe even responded insubstantially to your asking me my reaction. I am tempted now to get the recent Penguin edition of the Mahabharata for the Kurukshetra battle. It is abridged with bridging summaries. It is possible that I will continue on in the Clay Sanskrit Library's translation if they publish it fast enough or the University of Chicago's translation if they publish it at all. I have read the first five books in the University of Chicago series and have at hand the sixth book in the Clay Sanskrit Library series. Time will tell. Robert 68UrquhartThe Forgotten Highlander by Alistair Urquhart.
69Urquhartfrom Amazon The Pacific (Hardcover)
70petermcAppropriately for April, we have all of the following releases (from Amazon US, and/or from UNSW Press), on or concerning the ANZACs... Diggers and Greeks by Maria Hill (link to Amazon) Much has been written about the ill-fated Australian campaigns in Greece and Crete during World War II, but this book is the first account from the perspective of the Greeks. This compelling history combines details of the campaigns, as well as responses from Greeks and Cretans to the Allied forces on their soil. While miscommunication between the Greek General Staff and the Allied forces was frequent, this study reveals that situation on the ground was far more complex: the personal relations that developed between Australian soldiers and Greek civilians and soldiers were sometimes hostile but in other cases developed into friendships that lasted decades after the war had finished. Elucidating why the campaigns on mainland Greece and Crete compelled people to behave in altruistic ways—even when it meant placing themselves in danger—this insightful chronicle proves that it is possible to form successful relations with people of a completely different culture in conflict situations, and that those relationships are important to the well-being of all involved. I'm impressed by the promotion for this book. Starting from the authors website, we link to an overview of the book, and a not awfully convincing embedded Diggers and Greeks book trailer, which you can also access directly from YouTube. On this campaign (released in paperback last month), we also have... Forgotten Anzacs: The Campaign in Greece, 1941 by Peter Ewer Detailing lesser-known facts surrounding the legend of the Anzacs—an army formation made up of Australian and New Zealand troops—this study offers the largely obscure story of their campaign during World War II. Comprehensive and gripping, this examination follows the group on their long retreat through Greece while depicting uncanny similarities to the original Gallipoli operation a generation earlier. Based on rarely accessed archives and more than 30 interviews with Australian, Greek, and New Zealand veterans, this superb narrative gives overdue recognition to the brave, forgotten Anzacs of 1941. ---------------------------- We also have... Sorry, Lads, but the Order Is to Go: The August Offensive, Gallipoli: 1915 by David W. Cameron Drawing from letters, diaries, and official reports from both Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC) and Turkish sources, this narrative re-creates in compelling detail the five days of the August Offensive of World War I—the last attempt by the Allied forces to break the stalemate with the Turkish defenders. It resulted in some of the bloodiest battles on the Gallipoli peninsula. Describing the complexity of the battles, this chronicle also details how they affected the soldiers involved. Both visceral and poignant, this narrative is the first to look at the failed offensive as a whole, describing it from both sides of the line. This is the second book in a planned trilogy by David Cameron. The first book was 25 April 1915: The Day the Anzac Legend was Born, which I have, but am yet to read. The third book will focus on the battle for Hill 60. ---------------------------- Back to WWII. For another book on the ANZACS, we have... Bardia: Myth, Reality and the Heirs of ANZAC by Craig Stockings (link to Amazon) Chronicling the first battle of World War II planned and executed by Australia's military, this groundbreaking study recounts the island nation's assault on the Italian colonial fortress town of Bardia in Libya. After 55 hours of heavy fighting, the Australians celebrated a resounding victory, having captured 40,000 Italian prisoners and large quantities of arms and equipment with minimal losses to their own fighting forces. Though regarded as one of Australia's great military feats, this intricately researched history is the first in-depth account of the Battle of Bardia. This book was actually released last year in Australia, and there is a fine review by John Donovan in the November 2009 (Volume XI Number 11) issue of Quadrant, available online. ---------------------------- Concerning the ANZAC legend, you might want to check out... What's wrong with ANZAC? The Militarisation of Australian History by Marilyn Lake and Henry Reynolds (link to UNSW Press) In recent years Anzac – an idea as much as an actual army corps – has become the dominant force within Australian history, overshadowing everything else. The commemoration of Anzac Day is bigger than ever, while Remembrance Day, VE Day, VP Day and other military anniversaries grow in significance each year. Pilgrimages to Gallipoli, the Somme and Kokoda are commonplace and popular military history dominates the bestseller lists. Anzac has seemingly become a sacred, untouchable element of the nation. In this brave and controversial book, some of Australia’s leading historians dare to criticise Anzac. They show that the Anzac obsession distorts the rest of Australia’s history. They investigate official sponsorship of Anzac through commemoration and education and show that this has mobilised it as a conservative force, often for political ends. Finally—and perhaps most devastatingly—they ask whether the grief and loss associated with bloodshed on foreign shores was all worth it. ---------------------------- And for a true ANZAC classic (with extras)... The ANZAC Book (3rd Ed) (link to UNSW Press) Few books have ever been produced under such harsh conditions as The Anzac Book. Created by soldiers under enemy fire and in extreme hardship, the illustrations, stories, cartoons and poems were intended as a Christmas and New Year diversion for soldiers facing a harsh winter in the trenches on Gallipoli. The Anzac Book became the finest ‘trench publication’ produced by soldiers during the Great War and was an instant bestseller when first released in 1916. This new edition includes a reproduction of the original book, a foreword by acclaimed author Les Carlyon, an introduction from Australian War Memorial historian Ashley Ekins and material originally rejected by the editor, official war correspondent Charles Bean, but preserved in the collections of the Memorial. Les Carlyon, whose books The Great War and Gallipoli are superb, launched this new edition last month at the Australian War Memorial. You can read his speech here. 71UrquhartOne book that I go back to from time to time is Democracy in America by Alexis De Tocqueville, 1805-1859. People may find some of the following quotes of interest:
73JFCooperBenjamin Franklin, Pennsylvania, and the First Nations: The Treaties of 1736-62 by Susan Kalter I just added the work above to my library. Got it as a belated birthday gift. I've been wanting a copy of Carl Van Doren's Indian Treaties Printed by Benjamin Franklin, 1736-1762, published (500 copies) in 1938. But have not felt the urge to drop $400.00 on a copy. Now it looks from Amazon as though it has been reissued. It will be interesting to compare the Van Doren compilation with the Kalter book. Daniel 75LamSonValley of Death: The Tragedy at Dien Bien Phu That Led America into the Vietnam War by Ted Morgan. I have read A Shovel of Stars: The Making of the American West 1800 to the Present and Wilderness At Dawn: The Settling of the North American Continent by the same author. Both were enjoyable reads. 76UrquhartThere hasn't been any talk of history and children on this blog, so, herewith a suggestion: Horrible Histories. They are a series of books and DVDs that focus on the gruesome and that really seem to attract the younger set. Am I the only one never to hear of this? Many people on LT already have copies and Amazon reviews on this series say:
77DaynaRTMy son loved Horrible Histories. I put a ton on his iPod and he devoured them. Right now he's reading The Cartoon History of the Universe. 78UrquhartThe 2010 Pulitzer Prizes
79UrquhartEnduring Empire: Ancient Lessons for Global Politics (Hardcover)
80LamSonFairly new: Inside Central Asia byDilip Hiro This book provides an overview of the history of the Central Asian -stans (Uzbekistan...). I have just started this book and so far Hiro has a very readable style. 82JFCooperPick an era and a region then stick with it. :) Read multiple authors' accounts of a single subject. Daniel 85JFCoopermore or less ignoring my own advice, my "era" is as much of the 18th century in America as I can acquire (and by 18thC, I mean 1674-1828) and The Gilded Age. ;-) Daniel 86UrquhartA History of Histories: Epics, Chronicles, and Inquiries from Herodotus and Thucydides to the Twentieth Century (Vintage) (Paperback)
87UrquhartNo One Would Listen by Harry Markopolos is an engrossing read by the guy who discovered Madoff back in 1999 and with whom he became obsessed until Madoff finally confessed. Since most history loving people in this group love facts and are persistent in their search of same, this will be a book that people will find worth their while. Worth your while also because you get a clear sense of how safe/unsafe your money is with the SEC as your watch dog for protection. Highly recommended as a fun read. Ur. 88UrquhartNew Press to Publish New Title from Controversial Author Michael Bellesiles by Andrew Albanese May 20, 2010 Nearly a decade after his fall from grace, controversial Arming America author Michael Bellesiles is back with a new book: 1877: America’s Year of Living Violently, set to be published by New Press in August. But just how forgiving will book buyers will be toward the historian? Already this week New Press is catching flak for its assertion in press materials that the author was “swiftboated" by pro-gun forces seeking to discredit Arming America. “If a major commercial press wants to help a disgraced figure make his comeback, that is one thing,” Scott McLemee wrote this week in on Inside Higher Ed. “But rewriting history is another. The New Press published many excellent books by important authors. It is out of respect for that record that I want to invite it to make a public apology for violating the trust its readers have in it.” In 2001, Arming America was a national bestseller when questions arose over Bellesiles’s sources. The questions intensified, and Bellesiles was eventually forced to resign his position at Emory University after a damaging report from fellow historians questioned his academic integrity. His publisher Knopf walked away from the book, and for the first time in history the prestigious Bancroft Prize was revoked. Bellesiles is now an adjunct lecturer at Central Connecticut State University. To this day, the author maintains that his thesis in Arming America remains sound, even if there were problems with his sources. In 2003, the book was republished by Soft Skull Press, with a spirited defense by the author. In his new work, 1877: America's Year of Living Violently, Bellesiles purports to detail a transformative year in American history, when the United States was “gripped by a deep depression,” and in the throes of “nearly unimaginable violence and upheaval,” including a contested presidential election, white supremacist mobs, and a railroad strike. In the author bio on Amazon.com, Bellesiles is billed as a “celebrated historian” who has been “vilified, many think unfairly,” and claims this book will “reestablish his reputation.” It remains to be seen, however, whether Bellesiles can win redemption with a new book—if found to be solid, and well-researched—or whether his past transgressions with Arming America will haunt him. Contacted by the History News Network, Ohio State historian Randolph Roth said he hoped Bellesiles’ new book would be “judged on its merits,” but said he was disappointed by the tone of the publicity campaign thus far from New Press. “Bellesiles may indeed have been the target of the NRA’s ire, but he was not ‘swift-boated’ by anyone,” Roth observed. “The evidence, quantitative and qualitative, undid Arming America.” Meanwhile, the HNN this week also published a piece written by Bellesiles on the new book. Certainly, as the press reaction so far shows not only will Bellesiles’s new book be the subject of intense scrutiny, so too will every statement made by the author—and his publisher. On the Volokh Conspiracy blog, Eugene Volokh conceded that the new book itself might prove to be sound. “Bellesiles suffered amply (though rightly) for his misconduct,” Volokh writes. “It’s good that he’s getting a second chance.” He called the publicity letter and the swiftboating charge, however, “inaccurate,” and “unfortunate,” noting that he would not have dredged up the Emory report criticizing Bellesiles again, if not for that letter. Of course, that’s why they call it publicity. 89UrquhartI believe this book is right on topic for this group... War and Peace’: The Fact-Check Bettmann/Corbis Napoleon at the Battle of the Berezina during his retreat from Russia. By MARK MAZOWER Published: June 10, 2010 Dominic Lieven, a professor of history at the London School of Economics, is a distinguished scholar of the czarist empire, and in this superb book he has written his masterpiece. The story he tells — Russia’s gargantuan struggle with Napoleon — will be known to most people through Tolstoy’s “War and Peace,” and it takes a brave man to challenge the great novelist. But that indeed is Lieven’s goal, and for the most persuasive of reasons. He believes that Tolstoy’s account is badly misleading (Lieven has a historian’s natural concern for the facts) and perhaps more important has skewed our view of Russia and contributed to our tendency to misunderstand and belittle its role in international affairs. For more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/books/review/Mazower-t.html?ref=todayspaper 90UrquhartSome may find this new book of interest: Dancing in the Dark-A Cultural History of the Great Depression, by Morris Dickstein
91LamSonIn reference to my post #42. Nothing to Envy by Barbara Demick is an outstanding book. Demick follows the lives of a half dozen North Korean individuals during the famine of the mid-1990s and their escape to South Korea. Nothing to Envy reads like a novel, almost a sequel to Orwell's 1984. 92OldSargePicked up some nice light summer/beach reading today. MARATHON: The Battle That Changed Western Civilization by Richard A. Billows THE GHOSTS OF CANNAE: Hannibal and the Darkest Hour of the Roman Republic by Robert L. O'Connell 93UrquhartWe don't hear much about the Korean War here, so anyone interested in learning more is welcome to give a try with this new book:
A review of same is at: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/22/books/22book.html?ref=books 94LamSonNew within the past couple of years: A Crime so Monstrous by E Benjamin Skinner is a look at modern day (ie 1990s) slavery. The most depressing book everyone should read. 95jenniegI've been having a fine time with Stealing Lincoln's Body by Thomas Craughwell. A nice brisk book that deals with 19th-century counterfeiting, corrupt Chicago politics (redundant, I know), and the founding of the Secret Service. Not to mention a plot to steal Abe's body and hold it for ransom. It's practically beach reading. 96wildbillI just read a review of Remembering Survival: Inside a Nazi Slave-Labor Camp by Christopher Browning. Browning uses accounts of 292 Jewish survivors, most of then from the town of Wierzbnik. He used personal accounts for his research in Ordinary People: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland.(touchstone errors) The review goes into some detail concerning the relationship between the Jewish survivors and the Home Army. At one point the Home Army revealed the existence of the gassing facilities with the idea that it would make the Germans stop and motivate their Western Allies to take some action. Or course none of that happened. I enjoyed Ordinary People and this book is going on my wish list. 97UrquhartPeople may be interested in this new book: Hannibal Rising By DENIS FEENEY
Cannae is new to me, but the full and interesting review is at: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/books/review/Feeney-t.html?_r=1&ref=books 98OldSargeI read THE GHOSTS OF CANNAE: Hannibal and the Darkest Hour of the Roman Republic earlier this summer. Very good. 99UrquhartSamuel Johnson Prize Goes To 'Nothing To Envy' By Barbara Demick: Top UK Nonfiction Prize Awarded
more... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/01/samuel-johnson-prize-goes_n_632979.html I believe we have some folks interested in Korea and I thought this may be of interest........ 100LamSonI read Nothing to Envy a couple of months ago. It was a very good book, but also very depressing. I highly recommend it. 101UrquhartI am currently reading Washington Rules: America's Path to Permanent War … by Andrew Bacevich and recommend it highly. Those seeking reviews can find same at http://www.librarything.com/work/9721298/descriptions/64800023 In all honesty, I must add that this excellent book is staggeringly depressing. In fact I would rank it up there with my readings of Nietzche and the Journals of Kierkegaard during my college days. When I contacted the author re a solution to the problem as to what I could personally do to be part of the solution, he had no suggestions. Nor does he make suggestions at the end of this book. Ur. 102UrquhartWASHINGTON, A Life By Ron Chernow Illustrated. 904 pages. The Penguin Press. $40. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/books/28book.html?_r=1&ref=books 104UrquhartThis is another review of the book in the NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/03/books/review/Cayton-t.html?ref=books I note that in both reviews no mention is made of what the reviewers think of the book. I happen to think this author is magnificent, having read his Alexander Hamilton and his Rockefeller biographies. However, this omission of comment on two occasions is cause for concern. When this omission happens in theater or movie reviews, it speaks volumes. 105RoodRe: 97/9 Cannae is fairly new to me, too, but Hannibal's plan of battle is strikingly similar to that employed by American Brigadier General Daniel Morgan at the Battle of Cowpens ... 17 January 1781, during the Revolutionary War. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cowpens) Fleeing inland from British forces under the command of the young and dashing Lieutenant Colonel Banastre Tarleton, American Brigadier General Daniel Morgan and his men were in danger of being trapped between Tarleton's forces and those of General Cornwallis, whose army was moving into western South Carolina. Deciding to face Tarleton first, before being encircled, Morgan placed his weakest, most inexperienced soldiers on the front of a low hillside, with orders to fall back as though they were fleeing, as the British approached. Behind the hillside, and on either side, Morgan placed two units of calvary, with instruction to encircle the British after they charged headlong through the American centre. Morgan's battle tactics are still taught in American Military history. The question is ... was Morgan familiar with Cannae? N.B. As an interesting side note: Barely six months later, Tarleton and a small group of calvary almost captured Virginia Governor Thomas Jefferson at Monticello ... Jefferson escaping through the surrounding woods as Tarleton and his small force rode up the main approach road from Charlottesville. 106LamSonSecret Sentry by Matthew Aid An interesting look at the NSA in its various forms since the end of WW 2. Most interesting are the examples of the NSA saying one thing and politicians doing the opposite. 107JFCooper>105 "The question is ... was Morgan familiar with Cannae?" If he was an educated man, certainly. Otherwise probably not. Classical literature in Greek and Latin was a part of most secondary and post-secondary educations during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. The problem Morgan and most of the Continental Army generals faced was how to make best use of the utterly untrained and untrainable militias that often made up a significant portion of their fighting strength. Militias had a habit of running away at the exact moment when standing and fighting was necessary. According to Christopher Ward (The War of the Revolution), Morgan expected his militias to do exactly that. So the tactic worked in 2 ways: 1) make use of your militias and 2) trap Tarleton and neutralize his force. Daniel 108UrquhartA Good Day to Die by Evan Thomas Here it is in the NYT... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/books/review/Thomas-t.html?ref=books 109UrquhartProfiles in Leadership is by Walter Isaacson.
110TLCrawfordOver-the-Rhine: When Beer was King , the touchstone does not work, http://www.librarything.com/work/book/66592526 was published in September and covers Cincinnati's brewing history and the history of the Over-the-Rhine neighborhood where the brewing industry developed. This was published while I was working on my final paper for my BA, also on Over-the-Rhine but with a different focus. Like Morgan I had to look into the history of brewing and the German immigrants who built the neighborhood. He did a much better job covering those topics and Cincinnati's Boss Cox, our example of machine politics. It is not a dry academic history, he has fun with the subject and freely compares the "Know Nothing" Party to today's Tea Party and the Temperance Movement to the fight against same sex marriage. 111rcss67Postwar by Tony Judt is a fantastic overview of european history since 1945 and goes up to 2005. wel worth the read if you have time to do 800 pages 112UrquhartThere is Power in a Union by Philip Dray.
113UrquhartI believe this is a significant book..... Why the West Rules – For Now: The Patterns of History and What They Reveal About the Future, by Ian Morris, Profile RRP£25 768 pages Review in the FT: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/13172d36-07cf-11e0-8138-00144feabdc0.html#axzz18VumuDQ... Also:
114UrquhartToward the Setting Sun: John Ross, the Cherokees and the Trail of Tears Hardcover Brian Hicks (Author)
115UrquhartA new book. Have others out there heard of this historical event? I haven't; it is totally new to me. American Uprising
116TLCrawfordI heard Rasmussen talk about it on NPR. He wrote the book while he was a undergraduate at Harvard. Hearing him talk reminded me of Matthew Pearl who wrote The Dante Club during his stay at Harvard. As far as the revolt, never heard of it. I did try to do a little research on maroon communities in the United States and I have to say that any information on revolts or runaways is hard to find. American Negro Slave Revolts is the only book I have that deals with the topic and it was originally publishes in 1943. The story I would like to read, and one that will likely never be written because of a lack of documents is what became of the pre-Revolutionary bondsmen and women that escaped into the Appalachian Mountains and successfully set up communities. 117UrquhartThe Hemlock Cup By BETTANY HUGHES reviewed in the NY Times on Sunday 2.19.11. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/books/review/Isaacson-t.html?ref=review Some people might remember her from her work in television: # Breaking the Seal (2000). BBC/OU # Mysteries of the Ancients (2002). # The Spartans (2002) - produced by Lion TV, three 60-minute episodes. # Ancient Discoveries (2003) - produced by the History Channel. # Seven Ages of Britain (2003) — a social history from the Ice Age to the Industrial Revolution. # The Minotaur's Island (2003) - produced by Lion TV. # The Minoans (2004) - produced by Lion TV. # Helen of Troy (2005) — produced by Lion TV. # When The Moors Ruled In Europe (2005). # Athens: the Dawn of Democracy (2007). Former title Athens: the Truth about Democracy. # Engineering Ancient Egypt (2008). # The Roman Invasion of Britain (2009). # The Bible: A History - (2010) Channel 4: one episode (4 of 7) titled Daughters of Eve. # Time Team (2010) Channel 4: season 17, episode 1 # Atlantis: the Evidence (2010): A Timewatch special about the lost continent being the volcanic island of Santorini # Alexandria, City of Dreams, More 4, 2010 # The Day Jesus Died, BBC One, 2010 # Countrywise, ITV, 2009 - 2011 118UrquhartCivilization: The West and the Rest. Niall Ferguson
119UrquhartThe Hemlock Cup: Socrates, Athens and the Search for the Good Life This book is noted above and I am currently reading it, but do not recommend it for you folks for a number of reasons: 1-It is 80% on 5th Century BCE and 10% Socrates. 2-Rehash of a lot of what has already been written. 3-Too much speculation and conjecture thrown in as fact. In summary, this book is not nearly substantive enough for our group of people. With all the really good books you folks read this is not one you have to add to your TBR pile. But I bet it sells... IMO Ur 120UrquhartFor those interested in the Vietnam War, there is this new book: Fragging: Why U.S. Soldiers Assaulted Their Officers in Vietnam (Modern Southeast Asia)
122LamSonThe Vietnam War: An Assessment by South Vietnam's Generals edited by Lewis Sorley. After the war ended the U.S. Army Center of Military History collected the recollections and assessments about the conduct of the war, from several SVN generals, in several publications. Sorley edited them into one hefty volume (almost 900 pages). 123Muscogulus> 118 I know Niall Ferguson only from short pieces, media appearances, and podcast lectures — the fellow gets around these days — but it’s enough to encourage skepticism about his objectives as a scholar. Ferguson seems to be peddling an inventory of liberal (in the classical 19th-century sense) imperialist baggage that he’s anxious to unload on the public, on favorable terms of course. My advice to the reader, FWIW: Caveat emptor. 124UrquhartComing out this month....... A Glorious Army: Robert E. Lee's Triumph, 1862-1863 by Jeffrey Wert
Any interest Muscogulus? 126UrquhartPeople may wish to check out this book that got a rave review in the 4.24.11 Sunday NYT Book Review 1861, The Civil War Awakening By Adam Goodheart 481 pp. Alfred A. Knopf. $28.95
Ur 128Muscogulus>124 Any interest Muscogulus? I was surprised that the question was addressed to me! My first thought as I read about the book was “hasn't this been done many times before"? But then I don't know a thing about Jeffrey Wert. I am a little averse to books that talk about Civil War campaigns with adjectives like “gallant” and phrases like “What a run they had.” It reminds me of the Civil War re-enactments I've seen: interesting, indicative of reverence for ancestors, but also somewhat belittling of what actually happened during those terrible four years. To be fair, those ringing phrases are from the Kirkus review, not the book itself. The publisher's description is more even in tone. I remember being impressed with Cold Harbor by Gordon C. Rhea, part of a series of campaign studies. It gave excellent accounts of both the life of men in trenches (and there were a lot of trenches in this campaign) and the choices of generals — giving a new evaluation of Lee and Grant. There were none of the clichés and formulas I've noticed in other military histories. Maybe Wert is just as good. I don't know, but the prose in the Kirkus review pushes me away. 129UrquhartThe Future of History by John Lukacs This is a book I need to read. Note especially the last paragraph of the last review in the list below.
130LamSonI just finished Family of Secrets by Russ Baker. I would give it 3.5 to 4 stars. It's one of those books you hope isn't all true, but you live in fear that it might be. 131LamSonFragging: Why U.S. Soldiers Assaulted Their Officers in Vietnam by George Lepre gives insight into a subject that has received little serious attention. Pop culture portrays fraggers drug-crazed maniacs who were throwing grenades everywhere. In reality they were bored soldiers who overeacted to nitpicking by officers and NCOs. I would give it four stars. 132UrquhartLamSon Many thanks for your reading of the book and evaluation. Would be interesting to know if the same thing is happening in Iraq or Afghanistan. Ur. 133LamSonIn Iraq and Afghanistan we have an all voluntary military so I don't think fragging will happen to the same extent as it did in Vietnam, if at all. In Vietnam the military personnel had a lot of cultural baggage to carry around in addition to being drafted: 1. they brought with them the social and racial unrest the was occurring at the time; 2. the grunts were there to serve their 13 month requirement and the lifers were, lifers, which almost ensurred conflict; 3. the DOD had a program called something like '100,000 recruits' that lowered the standards on who could be in the military, which let in individuals who would normally have been rejected. Soldiers in I and A are older on average (late 20s) than soldiers in Vietnam (19). Today's soldiers have the life experiences and maturity needed to deal with adversity that did the counterparts in 1972. IMHO 134Mr.DurickOne other change may have affected the antipathy: units are switched in and out of Afghanistan and Iraq; individuals were switched in and out of Vietnam. Robert 136LamSonLast Men Out by Bob Drury is about the last couple of days before Saigon fell in 1975. It is told from the point of view of the Marines guarding the embassy and a couple of outlying consulates. Not only did they have to worry about possible threats from the NVA and VC, they also had to be concerned about attacks from criminal elements and disguntled ARVN soldiers. As happened so many times during the war, there just didn't seem to be a real plan for the evacuation or things were not executed very well. For example, Ambassador Martin was under the delusion that he could negotiate a peace settlement as 150,00 NVA soldiers surrounded Saigon, so he did not authorize the evacuation plan to begin until the last minute. The CIA did its own thing and didn't worry about anyone else. Apparently the consulate in Can Tho (in the Mekong delta region) was forgotton about so the consulor official commandeered two WW 2 vintage landing craft, loaded up the remaining Marines and as many civilians as they could carry and head down the river. They had some dicey moments when SVN patrol boats stopped them and a fire fight with VC/NVA. The official was under the impression that if the made it to the sea, there would be a US Navy ship waiting. Of coarse there wasn't and they had to put out to sea in a monsoon in flat bottom boats. Luckily they came upon a cargo ship that had been hired to look for 'boat people'. As the remaining Marines lifted off the embassy roof they could look out and see NVA tanks rumbling down the streets of Saigon. I would give this book 4 of 5 stars. 137UrquhartThank you LamSon; the book sounds chilling and am most grateful for that review. Only ifyou have time and care to, I would be interested in your listing the similarities you see between the US in both Vietnam and Afghanistan. Now that the US is officially on record for negotiating with the Taliban I sense there is a long list. As you wish. Ur. 138LamSonUr I really haven't looked into Afghanistan enought to make a comparison with Vietnam. A couple of thoughts. Both seemed to have started out with a goal (Vietnam - stop communism, Afghanistan - get bin Laden), but as time went on both floundered. Both had government corruption problems. Hopefully Afghanization works out better than Vietnamization. If we keep Kissinger away from the negotiations, pehaps the Afghanis will fare better than the Vietnamese did after we left. Since we frequently repeat past mistakes it will probably be the same. I wonder what the mountain terrain equivilant would be to 'boat people'? 140MuscogulusFor anyone interested in a short introduction to the African diaspora in North America, I recommend Peter H. Wood's Strange New Land: Africans in Colonial America. The main text weighs in at less than 100 pages, but gives a fast-moving, substantive overview of the way colonial society became a slave society, and where the crucial turning points were. It will be a familiar story to some, but I think Wood's approach — combining big-picture perspective with individual lives — is refreshing. There's a good bibliography in the back, current through 2003. Wood is the first author I've read who points out that African Americans, although often compared with immigrant groups, have deeper roots in America than most other Americans, as two-thirds of their ancestors arrived before 1776, and almost all of the rest were here by 1807, when Congress abolished the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Yet slavery and associated legal and cultural habits kept them alien to the white majority, even as that majority silently adopted elements of African American culture, without acknowledgement. (We're talking 17th century here, not jazz and Motown.) I was intrigued with one counterfactual speculation: The history of the "Lost Colony" of Roanoke usually omits the fact that when Francis Drake arrived there in 1586, his reinforcements included liberated African and Indian slaves along with lots of captured Spanish goods and materiel. Had a storm not wrecked most of his fleet and drowned these people, Roanoke, with such a mixed population, may have succeeded in a way that would allow less room, later, for chattel slavery. As it happened, Drake returned to England, and the next, small, all-white contingent at Roanoke assimilated into surrounding Indian towns by 1590. By the time Jamestown got off the ground, the opportunity was lost. Virginia and even Carolina did afford some room for free black citizens for several generations, but they were too few to stop the gradual slide toward a racial caste system and perpetual, inheritable chattel slavery. Under that shadow, the memory of Roanoke was reduced to the birth of Virginia Dare (the first native-born WASP, although she almost certainly ended her days as an Algonquian Indian). This book suggests that the real "lost colony" was the pre-racial one (antedating our long obsession with skin color) that just missed getting started in the summer of 1586. Maybe it would have made a difference. Who knows? 141LamSonI've started Monsoon by Robert D. Kaplan. Kaplan has the unique ability to combine history, travel, current events and strategic studies into a very readable form. In this books he examines how the Indian Ocean will increase in strategic importance as China and India gain economic power. 142TLCrawfordI am reading The Right Time: John Henry "Pop" Lloyd and Black Baseball and he explains that in the early days, and when the economy got bad, the players would put on clownish exhibitions before the games to draw crowds. The owners and some players saw it as demeaning but they needed to fill the seats with paying customers. Today there is an article on MSN about Russian Women's Soccer minor leagues where the teams are playing in bikinis. The economics of demeaning behavior never changes does it? 143UrquhartA WORLD ON FIRE, Britain’s Crucial Role in the American Civil War By Amanda Foreman
144LamSonDancing in the Glory of Monsters by Jason Stearns deals with conflict that has been going on in the Congo since the late 90s. 146sgtbigg#144 - I found Dancing in the Glory of Monsters somewhat disappointing. My very short review is here. 147wildbillI just finished Persian Fire. The book was every bit as good as everybody says it is. This is the fourth book I've read on the Greco-Persian wars and I still get excited at the start of the Battle of Salamis. What a terrific story. 149LamSonA book with a seasonally appropriate title Haunting Legacy, looks at how the ghost of the Vietnam War has been affecting presidential decisions for the past 35 years. 151UrquhartAnother WWI book. “The Beauty and the Sorrow: An Intimate History of the First World War,” By DWIGHT GARNER After reading the book review would you read this book? http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/11/books/the-beauty-and-the-sorrow-by-peter-englu... 152wildbillThe more I read about WWI the more I realize its' effect on the development of 20th century Western history. This book tells the story of the effects of the war on the day to day lives of ordinary people. This would really help my understanding of the great changes that took place in the Western world after the war. The reviewer's statement about the ending also heightens my curiosity about the book. Looks like a book I will put on my wish list. 154TLCrawfordI have to agree, it looks like a very interesting book. The review starts out by telling us what the book is not concerned with but they never come out and say what it is, a social history of WWI. Did the "culture war" damage social history so badly that the name is no longer used? Or is the that nobody has ever written a social history of a war? I can not think of another except possibly The Story the Soldiers Wouldn't Tell. I have not read it yet so for all I know it is all statistical renderings of STD cases during the US Civil War. 155UrquhartThis has been out a little while, but for those that missed it there is CIVILIZATION, The West and the Rest, By Niall Ferguson Illustrated. 402 pages. The Penguin Press. $35.
Full NYTimes review here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/15/books/niall-fergusons-empire-traces-wests-decl... 156UrquhartSo you say you like primary sources? So here you go. I know absolutely this is a new one for you. The People's War: Original Voices of the American Revolution Hardcover Noel Rae (Author)
157wildbillI really enjoy reading selections from primary sources. In my limited fashion I feel I am doing what "real" historians do. I read through what is available from Noel Rae's book and what I read contained Rae's narrative with selections from primary sources in the text. Since what I read was only snippets from the book that were only 3 to 4 pages long I will have to read the book to find out exactly how extensive the selections from the primary sources are. One of my favorite books on this topic is American Revolution: Writings From the War of Independence. It contains 120 separate pieces from more than 70 participants. One example is Paul Revere's narration of his famous ride. 158TLCrawfordNoel Rae also wrote, or maybe edited is a better word, Witnessing America: the Library of Congress Book of Firsthand Accounts of Life in America 1600-1900 another work that depends heavily on primary sources. They both look interesting. 159UrquhartJust a suggestion here on the author Noel Rae. If we could get say 10 people to sign up for a discussion with him, I might be able to get the author to join us for a question-answer thread. My wife is the librarian who got materials for him for the book. No promises of course but just a suggestion. What do you think? 161UrquhartRob Yes, I thought it was a good idea as well, but since it has taken about ....3 weeks...... before anyone responded and then only one positive......yourself........, I will just allow the matter to drop. And so it goes......... 163TLCrawfordI agree about the timing issue. The last three weeks were the last weeks of class and exams in most schools, something I have related to a slowdown on the history groups. The books look very interesting but I don't think I know enough about the era to ask intelligent questions. Well, maybe one. Now that primary schools no longer teach cursive writing, judging from your work in the archives, how much of a handicap will that be for future historians? 164sgtbiggPrimary schools don't teach cursive writing anymore? I was unaware of that, my kids go to a private catholic school and they do teach cursive writing there, much to my oldest daughter's chagrin. 166UrquhartSioux War Dispatches: Reports from the Field, 1876-1877 Marc H. Abrams from Amazon
167Urquhartthe historic unfulfilled Promise by Howard Zinn. A new book by the now dead historian.
168UrquhartA new book on the preservation of the Union... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/books/review/americas-great-debate-by-fergus-m... 169UrquhartA new book on the Civil War from the macro perspective... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/books/review/fateful-lightning-by-allen-c-guel... 170LamSonEscape from Camp 14 by Blaine Harden An account of the only person born in a North Korean political camp to escape. Much of the book is bleak and depressing, but then so is everything written about NK. 171UrquhartA new book of possible interest to folks........... Short Nights of the Shadow Catcher: The Epic Life and Immortal Photographs of Edward Curtis by Timothy Egan (Oct 9, 2012) How a lone man’s epic obsession led to one of America’s greatest cultural treasures: Prizewinning writer Timothy Egan tells the riveting, cinematic story behind the most famous photographs in Native American history — and the driven, brilliant man who made them. Edward Curtis was charismatic, handsome, a passionate mountaineer, and a famous photographer, the Annie Leibovitz of his time. He moved in rarefied circles, a friend to presidents, vaudeville stars, leading thinkers. And he was thirty-two years old in 1900 when he gave it all up to pursue his Great Idea: to capture on film the continent’s original inhabitants before the old ways disappeared. An Indiana Jones with a camera, Curtis spent the next three decades traveling from the Havasupai at the bottom of the Grand Canyon to the Acoma on a high mesa in New Mexico to the Salish in the rugged Northwest rain forest, documenting the stories and rituals of more than eighty tribes. It took tremendous perseverance — ten years alone to persuade the Hopi to allow him into their Snake Dance ceremony. And the undertaking changed him profoundly, from detached observer to outraged advocate. Eventually Curtis took more than 40,000 photographs, preserved 10,000 audio recordings, and is credited with making the first narrative documentary film. In the process, the charming rogue with the grade school education created the most definitive archive of the American Indian. His most powerful backer was Theodore Roosevelt, and his patron was J. P. Morgan. Despite the friends in high places, he was always broke and often disparaged as an upstart in pursuit of an impossible dream. He completed his masterwork in 1930, when he published the last of the twenty volumes. A nation in the grips of the Depression ignored it. But today rare Curtis photogravures bring high prices at auction, and he is hailed as a visionary. In the end he fulfilled his promise: He made the Indians live forever. Show More Editorial Reviews Amazon.com Review In the summer of 1900, Edward Curtis gave up a successful photography career to pursue a quixotic plan: to photograph all the Indian communities in North America. He quickly learned that his subjects were dying off fast, so he’d need to hurry if he was “to capture the essence of their lives before that essence disappeared.” A mountaineer, explorer, intrepid photojournalist, and amateur anthropologist, Curtis was Ansel Adams crossed with Annie Leibovitz, a willful and passionate chronicler of a people he came to love. “I want to make them live forever,” Curtis said in the early days of his decades-long mission. As Egan’s thrilling story attests, he succeeded, even though he died penniless and alone. --Neal Thompson Review "In this hauntingly beautiful book, Egan brings Curtis to life as vividly and with as much depth, heart and understanding as Curtis himself put into his timeless portraits. This is a story for the ages." --Candice Millard, author of The River of Doubt and Destiny of the Republic "Short Nights is not only the marvelous and rollicking account of life of one of America's extraordinary photographers. It is also a book about the extreme personal cost of outsized ambition. Edward Curtis undertook one of the most epic cultural projects in American history--photographing and documenting the vanishing ways of life of some eighty American Indian tribes. It cost him almost everything he once was. And still he persisted, turning out some of the greatest photographic and ethnological work ever done. Egan has found yet another great subject, and has crafted yet another great narrative around it." -- S.C. Gwynne, author of Empire of the Summer Moon Edward Curtis’s hauntingly beautiful photographs have graced gallery walls and coffee tables for generations—and his work remains essential to our conception of the American West. Now, in this extraordinary biography, Tim Egan has deftly captured the man behind the images, revealing a great American adventurer who lived at the fragile, fertile intersection of history, anthropology, and art. --Hampton Sides, author of Blood and Thunder /////////////////////////////////////////////// 172UrquhartMajor news! The Last Lion: Winston Spencer Churchill: Defender of the Realm, 1940-1965 Hardcover William Manchester (Author), Paul Reid (Author) Yes, the third one in the series! For those of us who have been waiting, it is welcome news. Reviews from Amazon: Editorial Reviews Review "The long-delayed majestic account of Winston Churchill's last 25 years is worth the wait....Manchester (and Reid) matches the outstanding quality of biographers such as Robert Caro and Edmund Morris, joining this elite bank of writers who devote their lives to one subject." (Publishers Weekly ) "Reid's got the research right, down to the day, down to the minute...As Reid chronicles Churchill's private aspects-his wittiness, sybaritic consumption of scotch and cigars, and moods bordering on depression...Manchester was one of the best Churchill biographers, and this capstone to his magnum opus ought not to be missed." (Booklist ) "A richly detailed account." (Richmond Times-Dispatch ) "Reid learned well from Manchester, and the finished book is a worthy conclusion to what must be considered one of the most thorough treatments of Churchill so far produced. An essential conclusion to Manchester's magnum opus." (Library Journal (starred review) ) About the Author William Manchester was a hugely successful popular historian and biographer whose books include The Last Lion, Volumes 1 and 2, Goodbye Darkness, A World Lit Only by Fire, The Glory and the Dream, The Arms of Krupp, American Caesar, The Death of the President, and assorted works of journalism. Paul Reid is an award-winning journalist. In late 2003 his friend, William Manchester, in failing health, asked Paul to complete The Last Lion: Defender of the Realm. He lives in North Carolina. 173UrquhartAnd this book- 1775: A Good Year for Revolution Hardcover, Kevin Phillips (Author) Book Description Release Date: November 27, 2012 The contrarian historian and analyst upends the conventional reading of the American Revolution In 1775, iconoclastic historian and bestselling author Kevin Phillips punctures the myth that 1776 was the watershed year of the American Revolution. He suggests that the great events and confrontations of 1775—Congress’s belligerent economic ultimatums to Britain, New England’s rage militaire, the exodus of British troops and expulsion of royal governors up and down the seaboard, and the new provincial congresses and hundreds of local committees that quickly reconstituted local authority in Patriot hands—achieved a sweeping Patriot control of territory and local government that Britain was never able to overcome. These each added to the Revolution’s essential momentum so when the British finally attacked in great strength the following year, they could not regain the control they had lost in 1775. Analyzing the political climate, economic structures, and military preparations, as well as the roles of ethnicity, religion, and class, Phillips tackles the eighteenth century with the same skill and insights he has shown in analyzing contemporary politics and economics. The result is a dramatic narrative brimming with original insights. 1775 revolutionizes our understanding of America’s origins. 174Mr.DurickThanks for the posting about Defender of the Realm. I've joked that without it I'll never know who won World War II, but I've really wanted to see the life wrapped up in Manchester's and his surrogate's voice. Robert 177MGEThank you Ur. I will most certainly read this, although I am no fan of the slave-owning hypocrite. Mike 178UrquhartMore on the Churchill book.......... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/magazine/the-fan-who-finished-william-manchest... 179Urquhart1775, A Good Year for Revolution By Kevin Phillips Illustrated. 628 pp. Viking. $36. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/books/review/1775-by-kevin-phillips.html?ref=b...; | AboutThis topic is not marked as primarily about any work, author or other topic. TouchstonesWorks
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