As suggested in our '100 best' thread, I thought I'd go ahead and start a list here.

Of course, what counts as 'young adult' is always up for discussion, and different readers clearly have different levels. Many teens move on to 'adult' books quite early. For the purpose of this list, then, let's assume that anything which would be appropriate for or aimed at roughly 10 to 16 year olds fits this category.

We can aim to find 25 books, and see where recs take us! Since it seems to be working in the other thread, let's do the same here:

1) Post a list of anywhere from 1 to 20 (arbitrary cutoff) books that you think are excellent examples of the science fiction genre for readers from roughly 10 to 16.

2) List a single book or a series as one entry, but please don't list both (e.g., the Foundation series or Second Foundation, not both).

3) I'll try to keep track and tabulate books as they get listed, seconded, etc and see what we come up with!

Ender's War
Childhood's End

I read Childhood's End as a younger person. And Ender as an older person. But I think both would be fine for Young people at any time to read. Think about and see Science Fiction in a positve and strong light.

The problem with 25 books as I see it is the predominance of series in YA SF. Someone like C. J. Cherryh writes many in series. What if the book recommended is the fifth of a series -- do you include just the one book, the entire series, the series leading up to that book? I would recommend giving the one book, its position in the series, and whether it depends on what has gone before or can as enjoyably be read standalone.

Childhood's End YA? Not in my book it isn't. It wasn't (and still isn't) published as such. Having read a book in one's teens isn't sufficient to claim a book as YA - I read much of Silverberg's award nominated work in my early teens for example but Tower Of Glass is still an adult novel.

Anyway here are some suggestions -
The H-Bomb Girl by Stephen Baxter (this is never touchstonable).
The Knife Of Never Letting Go by Patrick Ness
Siberia by Ann Halam (Gwyneth Jones)
D.A. by Connie Willis

What is YA? I think of kids from 10 to 16 also. I don't want to get into a big todo over Childhoods end, but I see it as something that makes you think in addition to books that we will have where the hero solves the problem and wins the prize, which I see as a mainstay of YA also.

The HBomb Girl Sometimes they are stubborn.

I think YA is a really fuzzy category - for some, any book that has teens or children figuring heavily it them is automatically YA. I have always thought this ridiculous. For others, it has to do with writing style or level or author intent or publisher intent or some other mysterious quality.

To me, I feel that if it's a book which we feel as a group (as determined by votes!) would have high appeal to teens, then that's good enough. I haven't read Childhood's End, so I can't really say - but to some extent, I think the process of listing and then 'voting' books by listing them again helps sort out what are commonly held to be such and what's not.

Anyway! I'd list the following:

The Giver - Lois Lowry
Fade - Lisa McMann
Ender's Game - Orson Scott Card
City of Ember - Jeanne DuPrau
Uglies - Scott Westerfield
The Hunger Games - Suzanne Collins

I would recomend the Tripod series by John Chrisopher;
The White Mountains
The city of gold and lead
The pool of fire.
Robert Heinlein's juveniles are good
Have Spacesuit Will Travel
Citizen of the Galaxy
Orson Scott Card
Enders Game

#7 for some, any book that has teens or children figuring heavily it them is automatically YA. I have always thought this ridiculous.

I agree. By that definition Lolita is YA.

I second or third The Hunger Games, The Giver, Childhood's End, City of Ember and also recommend:

A Wrinkle in Time by Madeline L'engle
Jumper by Steven Gould
Wind Singer by William Nicholson

Hover Car Racer by Matthew Reilly
Evil Genius by Catherine Jinks
Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
Jumper by Stephen Gould

Who on earth decided that Childhood's End was YA fiction? Yes, I read that in my teens, but I also read John Grisham and Robert Ludlum as a teen.

Because I have nothing better to do with my day besides compiling lists:

(3) Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
(2) Childhood's End
(2) City of Ember - Jeanne DuPrau
(2) D.A. by Connie Willis
(2) Jumper by Stephen Gould
(2) The Giver
(2) The Hunger Games - Suzanne Collins
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeline L'engle
Evil Genius by Catherine Jinks
Fade by Lisa McMann
Hover Car Racer by Matthew Reilly
Siberia by Ann Halam (Gwyneth Jones)
The H-Bomb Girl by Stephen Baxter
The Knife Of Never Letting Go by Patrick Ness
Uglies by Scott Westerfield
Wind Singer by William Nicholson

We need to have a criterion for what is considered to be YA Fiction.

Message edited by its author, Apr 30, 2009, 7:38pm.

YA is a category I usually avoid, but here's one I've recently read (and recommend) from a New Zealand author...

Genesis by Bernard Beckett

Without naming any Heinlein …

Crispin, AC Starbridge (series start)
Ford, John M. Growing Up Weightless
Gould, Steven C. Jumper
Gould, Steven C. Wild Side
Hogan, James P. Outward Bound
Kress, Nancy Yanked
Palmer, David Emergence
Pfeffer, Susan Beth Life as we Knew it
Pournelle, Jerry Starswarm
Scalzi, John Zoe's Tale
Sheffield and Pournelle Higher Education
Sheffield, Charles Putting Up Roots
Varley, John Red Thunder (series start)

Classics in the field, but still just as readable and pertinent today:

Sylvia Engdahl's Enchantress from the Stars

City of Ember is a rip-off of This Time of Darkness by H. M. Hoover. She wrote an impressive selection of YA SF over several decades.
Children of Morrow (1973)
Treasures of Morrow (1976)
The Delikon (1977)
The Rains of Eridan (1977)
The Lost Star (1979)
This Time of Darkness (1980)
Return to Earth (1980)
Another Heaven, Another Earth (1981)
The Bell Tree (1982)
The Shepherd Moon (1984)
Orvis (1987)
Away Is a Strange Place to Be (1990)
Only Child (1992)
The Winds of Mars (1995)

And Wilanne Belden Schneider wrote a great YA trilogy:
Mind-Hold, Mind-Find, and Mind-Call.

Another classic: Children of the Atom by Wilmar H. Shiras.

I've heard good things about the Dragonback series by Timothy Zahn - first book is Dragon and Thief.

While at the library today I noticed a large display in the teen section of science fiction and fantasy, with a large sign to draw attention. With the exception of a later Ender novel and one by Eddings, I did not recognize any of the featured twenty-some books. None of the ones named here certainly.

#17

Is that a recommendation for a book that you have not yet read?

Message edited by its author, May 1, 2009, 11:41pm.

Nominated more than once:

(3) Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
(2) Childhood's End
(2) City of Ember - Jeanne DuPrau
(2) D.A. by Connie Willis
(3) Jumper by Steven Gould
(2) The Giver
(2) The Hunger Games - Suzanne Collins

Nominated Once

A Wrinkle in Time by Madeline L'engle
Another Heaven, Another Earth by H. M. Hoover
Away Is a Strange Place to Be by H. M. Hoover
Children of Morrow by H. M. Hoover
Children of the Atom by Wilmar H. Shiras.
Emergence by David Palmer
Enchantress from the Stars by Sylvia Engdahl
Evil Genius by Catherine Jinks
Fade by Lisa McMann
Genesis by Bernard Beckett
Growing Up Weightless by John M Ford
Higher Education by Charles Sheffield
Hover Car Racer by Matthew Reilly
Life as we Knew it by Susan Beth Pfeffer
Mind-Hold by Wilanne Belden Schneider
Only Child by H. M. Hoover
Orvis by H. M. Hoover
Outward Bound by James P Hogan
Putting Up Roots by Charles Sheffield
Red Thunder by John Varley
Return to Earth by H. M. Hoover
Siberia by Ann Halam (Gwyneth Jones)
Starbridge by AC Crispin
Starswarm by Jerry pournelle
The Bell Tree by H. M. Hoover
The Delikon by H. M. Hoover
The H-Bomb Girl by Stephen Baxter
The Knife Of Never Letting Go by Patrick Ness
The Lost Star by H. M. Hoover
The Rains of Eridan by H. M. Hoover
The Shepherd Moon by H. M. Hoover
The Winds of Mars by H. M. Hoover
This Time of Darkness by H. M. Hoover
Treasures of Morrow by H. M. Hoover
Uglies by Scott Westerfield
Wild Side by Steven Gould
Wind Singer by William Nicholson
Yanked by Nancy Kress
Zoe's Tale by John Scalzi

Message edited by its author, May 1, 2009, 11:44pm.

Ender seems to be a clear winner on both lists (And having read it twice, I am confident it will emerge a champion ...)

jumper by steven gould
z for zachariah by robert c o'brien
the giver by lois lowry
psion by joan d vinge

Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
1984 by George Orwell
The Ear, the Eye and The Arm by Nancy Farmer

Just a thought of YA from masters that don't hold up for the list... Asimov's David Starr books.

But here is one that does...
Doc Smith's series Grey Lensmen

#24

In what universe are 1984, Brave New World and Fahrenheit 451 YA novels?

The universe of librarians, teachers and YA's, among others. :-)

I think there are two thoughts competing against each other on YA. One is that YA needs a protagonist who is a Youth, so that the reader can identify with that youth and have the adventure that is in the novel.

The other thought is that what literature is appropriate for 10 to 16 year olds, (Or thereabouts) to read, that is a great piece of SF literature and imparts the best of SF to them.

I like the 2nd definition over the first, but will not throw the first out if those adventures of teenagers are great reads. But if a story does not have a great youthful protagonist, but a middle aged low level bureaucrat fearful that the government controls ones every move, and still emerges from this as a powerful story that a young person could read and think about, then I think we should have it on the list too.

feed MT Anderson
city of gold and lead John Christopher
High Wizardry diane Duane (sf/fantasy combo, v. well done)
the ear the eye and the arm nancy farmer
jumper steven gould *from all reports butchered by the movie and the follow on novel by gould.
The Delikon and Children of Morrow hm hoover (a very underappreciated SF writer for kids and YA)
a wrinkle in time - classic and v. good.
aliens in the family margaret mahy
un lun dun China Mieville
there and back again Pat Murphy - terrific SF take/homage to the hobbit.
shade's children Garth Nix
lizard music daniel pinkwater
mortal engines Philip Reeve - steampunkish. v. nifty take on social darwinism
night sky mine Melissa Scott. coming of age as a gay teen in a universe far, far away. A favorite of mine.
the boy who reversed himself william sleator and yes
Enders Game and
Childhood's End.

all of the above are well worth any family's collection. Some listed are approp. for 9-12 yrs other for older kids. Most were read by our son by 10th grade - a few, eg un lun dun & mortal engines i got after he went off to college.

well we had 1984 and brave new world has high school books in English back in the mid 60s.

Message edited by its author, May 5, 2009, 9:00am.

#28

I don't fit into either of those camps. My definition is literature written to be enjoyed by, and marketed to, 10-14 year olds - which is quite a bit different to your second definition (and not just with regards to age).

I struggle to think of a book (SF or not) which is inappropriate for a 15 or 16 year old, or rather my 16 year old self and the people I knew at school, which makes your second definition pretty damn useless. We will just end up listing everything.

Doc Smith is not YA either.

If it's in the YA section of a book shop, it's YA. Otherwise it's not. The actual appropriateness is a irrelevant. Some books have moved from adult to YA, such as David Edding's Belgariad. But most YA books are written as YA books.

Hasn't anyone mentioned Little Brother by Cory Doctorow?

I was reading Writers Digest Writers Market guide last night and I came across the definition of YA in Sci Fi.

Any subcategory of science fiction geared to a YA audience (12-18), but these are usually shorter novels with characters in the central roles who are the same age as (or slightly older than) the targeted reader. (Jane Yolen, Andre Norton--note these are the examples they listed)

I am sure that the definition won't put to rest the discussion over what is YA, but I thought it timely. I have been working on a YA fantasy (now I need to youthen my heroes a little by a year or two). I really just picked this up yesterday from my meager funds thinking to try and find a Literary Agent and there the definition was... So that changes what I posted in 28 to a great extent. And it makes Kimball Kinnison too old for YA as Ian thinks.

Message edited by its author, May 3, 2009, 12:00pm.

Science Fair
Ender's Game
The True Meaning of Smekday
The Giver the rest in the trilogy don't really count as si-fi
Dragon and Thief and the rest of the series

Message edited by its author, May 3, 2009, 7:07pm.

Unwind is a pretty decent YA sci-fi book. And of course, there's Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow. I remember liking The Bar Code Tattoo though I wasn't a fan of the sequel.

#24

I'm not disputing the worth of the first three books you listed, but are they good adult SF novels, or good YA SF novels?

My count so far! If you notice something off, wrong author listed, incorrect touchstone, etc, please feel free to let me know. I tried to take the first book of a series, where I recognize that such was being rec'd - if I missed some, let me know!

More than one vote -

7 – Ender’s Game (Orson Scott Card)
5 - Jumper (Steven C. Gould)
4 - The Giver (Lois Lowry)
3 - Childhood's End (Arthur C. Clarke)
2 - City of Ember (Jeanne DuPrau)
2 - The Ear, the Eye, and the Arm (Nancy Farmer)
2 - The Delikon (H. M. Hoover)
2 - The Hunger Games (Suzanne Collins)
2 - The White Mountains series (John Christopher)
2 - A Wrinkle in Time ( Madeline L’Engle)

Message edited by its author, May 4, 2009, 9:06am.

One vote -

Aliens in the Family (Margaret Mahy)
Another Heaven, Another Earth (H. M. Hoover)
Away Is a Strange Place to Be (H. M. Hoover)
The Bar Code Tattoo (Suzanne Weyn)
The Bell Tree (H. M. Hoover)
The Boy Who Reversed Himself (William Sleator)
Brave New World (Aldous Huxley)
Children of Morrow (H. M. Hoover)
Children of the Atom (Wilmar H. Shiras)
Citizen of the Galaxy (Robert Heinlein)
D.A. (Connie Willis)
Dragon and Thief (Timothy Zahn)
Emergence (David Palmer)
Enchantress from the Stars (Sylvia Engdahl)
Evil Genius (Catherine Jinks)
Fade (Lisa McMann)
Farenheit 451 (Ray Bradbury)
Feed (MT Anderson)
Genesis (Bernard Beckett)
Grey Lensmen (Edward E. Doc Smith)
Growing up Weightless (John M. Ford)
Have Spacesuit Will Travel (Robert Heinlein)
The H Bomb Girl (Stephen Baxter)
High Wizardry (Dian Duane)
Higher Education (Charles Sheffield and Jerry Pournelle)
Hover Car Racer (Matthew Reilly)
The Knife of Never Letting Go (Patrick Ness)
Life as We Knew It (Susan Beth Pfeffer)
Little Brother (Cory Doctorow)
Lizard Music (Daniel Pinkwater)
The Lost Star (H. M. Hoover)
Mind Hold (Wilanne Belden Schneider)
Mortal Engines (Philip Reeve)
Night Sky Mine (Melissa Scott)
Nineteen Eighty-Four (George Orwell)
Only Child (H. M. Hoover)
Orvis (H. M. Hoover)
Outward Bound (James P. Hogan)
Psion (Joan D. Vinge)
Putting up Roots (Charles Sheffield)
Red Thunder (John Varley)
The Rains of Eridan (H. M. Hoover)
Return to Earth (H. M. Hoover)
Science Fair (Dave Barry)
Shade's Children (Garth Nix)
The Shepherd Moon (H. M. Hoover)
Siberia (Ann Halam)
Starbridge (AC Crispin)
Starswarm (Jerry Pournelle)
The True Meaning of Smekday (Adam Rex)
There and Back Again (Pat Murphy)
Treasures of Morrow (H. M. Hoover)
Uglies (Scott Westerfield)
Un Lun Dun (China Mieville)
Unwind (Neal Shusterman)
Wild Side (Steven C. Gould)
Wind Singer (William Nicholson)
The Winds of Mars (H. M. Hoover)
Yanked (Nancy Kress)
Z for Zachariah (Robert C. O’Brien)
Zoe's Tale (John Scalzi)

Message edited by its author, May 4, 2009, 9:15am.

There might be a subtle difference between a YA book, that with the hero between 12 to 18 or a little older, and a book that a Young Adult person should read so they start having adult questions and thinking about their adult responsibilities.

1984 would seem to be a book that gets a young person on the cusp of those adult responsibilities to think, but does not have the YA heroes in it.

I have always hated the YA definition that revolved around the age of the heroes - as if teens cannot read about adults and adults cannot read about teens.

Not in response to you, DW. ;) Just in general, it has long been a pet peeve!

I admit I tend more toward the definition that goes 'a ton of teens like it and find something in it that speaks to them' - forget what authors, publishers, or even teachers and librarians tell us. If it's popular in that age group, then that's good enough for me!

I remember reading Alien Child by Pamela Sargent when I was in middle school, and the story has stuck with me ever since. I believe it was my introduction to SciFi, so I throw it out there as something geared maybe more to girls in a way a lot of scifi isn't.

I forgot about The Bar Code Tattoo (I thought the sequel was O.K) and Uglies!

Thought of 3 more ...

Gerrold, David Jumping off the Planet
Gerrold, David Bouncing off the Moon
Gerrold, David Leaping to the Stars

Definitely adding Life as We Knew It to my list (Susan Beth Pfeffer) - and for some reason I didn't list The Adoration of Jenna Fox (Mary E. Pearson) in my earlier ones, but I definitely thought that one was delightful, too!

We read 1984, Lord of the Flies, Animal Farm, Brave New World and even Ayn Rand (not that we understood it) in high school! Some personal favorites I can remember are A Wrinkle in Time, The Giver, Bradbury and Heinlein.

#43

The Man Who Folded Himself by David Gerrold isn't there.

Add that to the list, please.

> 45

Kaida - are there particular Bradbury or Heinlein books you'd recommend or second to put on the list?

Who would be cruel enough to make kids read Ayn Rand in school? Surely it's against the Geneva Convention?

#46. hmm i wonder how similar the man who folded himself is to the boy who reversed himself by Sleator? I've only read the latter.

The Man Who Folded Himself is similar to Heinlein's 'All You Zombies' and 'By His Bootstraps'.

surely Ayn Rand isn't on any school's required reading list? unless it's a private school for kids of neocons?

Mussolini High?

My first exposure to Ayn Rand was reading The Fountainhead for a scholarship program. I got halfway through it before giving up the cause, and I was a 'gifted' hs senior with a taste for sci-fi already at that point. I would never recommend her as a 'gateway drug' for younger readers. Heck, I wouldn't recommend her for older readers either. ;)

I second all these boks except Fade and Ender's Game. I also suggest
The Adoration of Jenna Fox-Mary E. Pearson.
Unwind-Neal Shusterman

Sorry. That was response to #34 and I meant to write books.

Peeps-Scott Westerfield

Adoration of Jenna Fox, Maximum Ride and Double Identityare three others.

#48

No, it's not outlawed. I heard some guards play tapes of Ayn Rand books to inmates at Guantamo Bay because water boarding was made illegal.

I know so little of the books being recommended. I can't wait till the list is finalized so I can research them and see which ones I would like to read.

> 54 Miranda -

I'm not quite sure what books you mean to second, so I did not add them to the list. If you post again with the titles, I'll be sure they get in next time!

More than one vote:

7 – Ender’s Game (Orson Scott Card)
5 - Jumper (Steven C. Gould)
5 - The Giver (Lois Lowry)
3 - Childhood’s End (Arthur C. Clarke)
3 - A Wrinkle in Time ( Madeline L’Engle)
2 - The Adoration of Jenna Fox (Mary E. Pearson)
2 - The Bar Code Tattoo (Suzanne Weyn)
2 - City of Ember (Jeanne DuPrau)
2 - The Ear, the Eye, and the Arm (Nancy Farmer)
2 - The Delikon (H. M. Hoover)
2 - The Hunger Games (Suzanne Collins)
2 - Uglies (Scott Westerfield)
2 - Unwind (Neal Shusterman)
2 - The White Mountains series (John Christopher)
2 - Life as We Knew It (Susan Beth Pfeffer)

One vote:

Alien Child (Pamela Sargent)
Aliens in the Family (Margaret Mahy)
The Angel Experiment - Maximum Ride series (James Patterson)
Another Heaven, Another Earth (H. M. Hoover)
Away Is a Strange Place to Be (H. M. Hoover)
The Bell Tree (H. M. Hoover)
The Boy Who Reversed Himself (William Sleator)
Brave New World (Aldous Huxley)
Children of Morrow (H. M. Hoover)
Children of the Atom (Wilmar H. Shiras)
Citizen of the Galaxy (Robert Heinlein)
D.A. (Connie Willis)
Dragon and Thief (Timothy Zahn)
Double Identity (Margaret Peterson Haddix)
Emergence (David Palmer)
Enchantress from the Stars (Sylvia Engdahl)
Evil Genius (Catherine Jinks)
Fade (Lisa McMann)
Farenheit 451 (Ray Bradbury)
Feed (MT Anderson)
Genesis (Bernard Beckett)
Grey Lensmen (Edward E. Doc Smith)
Growing up Weightless (John M. Ford)
Have Spacesuit Will Travel (Robert Heinlein)
The H-Bomb Girl (Stephen Baxter)
High Wizardry (Dian Duane)
Higher Education (Charles Sheffield and Jerry Pournelle)
Hover Car Racer (Matthew Reilly)
Jumping off the Planet - Dingilliad series (David Gerrould)
The Knife of Never Letting Go (Patrick Ness)
Life as We Knew It (Susan Beth Pfeffer)
Little Brother (Cory Doctorow)
Lizard Music (Daniel Pinkwater)
The Lost Star (H. M. Hoover)
Mind-Hold (Wilanne Belden Schneider)
The Man Who Folded Himself (David Gerrold)
Mortal Engines (Philip Reeve)
Night Sky Mine (Melissa Scott)
Nineteen Eighty-Four (George Orwell)
Only Child (H. M. Hoover)
Orvis (H. M. Hoover)
Outward Bound (James P. Hogan)
Peeps (Scott Westerfield)
Psion (Joan D. Vinge)
Putting up Roots (Charles Sheffield)
Red Thunder (John Varley)
The Rains of Eridan (H. M. Hoover)
Return to Earth (H. M. Hoover)
Science Fair (Dave Barry)
Shade's Children (Garth Nix)
The Shepherd Moon (H. M. Hoover)
Siberia (Ann Halam)
Starbridge (AC Crispin)
Starswarm (Jerry Pournelle)
The True Meaning of Smekday
There and Back Again (Pat Murphy)
Treasures of Morrow (H. M. Hoover)
Un Lun Dun (China Mieville)
Wild Side (Steven C. Gould)
Wind Singer (William Nicholson)
The Winds of Mars (H. M. Hoover)
Yanked (Nancy Kress)
Z for Zachariah (Robert C. O’Brien)
Zoe's Tale (John Scalzi)

(Bah, touchstones! They're in there - WORK!)

Message edited by its author, May 6, 2009, 2:35pm.

>60 I posted right below that that this was response the message 34.
>57 The adoration of Jenna Fox and Double Identity are wonderful books! I have already seconded Jenna Fox but I second Double Identity.
>61 I vote for the Wrinkle in time as well.
I noticed that the girl who could fly is not mentioned in any of the lists. I feel that is a good one for YA. I thought i already suggested this. I also remember a book i read a long time ago about tripods and a boy had to infiltrate their city?? I cannot remember the title, any help? I do not think it is When the Tripods Came but it may be part of that series.

Message edited by its author, May 6, 2009, 3:52pm.

> 63

Yeah, I saw that, but you also mention Fade, which is not in that post, so I was a bit confused. If you could just list the titles out so I can be sure, that'd be helpful!

>64 I believe this was actually meant for #37 and that Fade was a mistake.

I will put a second vote for Citizen of the Galaxy and add Exiles to Glory which was one of my favorites while a YA, and then as an older A...

I'll 2nd Exiles to Glory and might add A Spaceship for the King or King Davids Spaceship depending on what edition you come across

Surviving Antarctica: Reality TV 2083) by Andrea White
The Hunger Games
A Wrinkle in Time
The White Mountains --which may be a part of a series--it's been a long time since I read it.

I've talked about Surviving Antarctica on another post somewhere in LT--highly recommend to anyone who liked The Hunger Games

Powers Ursula K Le Guin I thought was quite good (though not good enough to win a nebula) also from the shortlist Little brother, but not Superpowers. The earlier western shore books gifts and voices I can also recomend.

The Martian Chronicles, Fahrenheit 451 (Bradbury).

Have Spacesuit will Travel and Citizen of the Galaxy (Heinlein)

Yes we read the Fountainheadin a high school lit class I had, I think the class was called "Utopian Literature" but it was mostly a study of literature about societies that you would not want to live in. It was a really interesting class. I also had a class called the Bible as literature, too. A rather small regional public high school in a NJ.

Second (or third . . .) The Martian Chronicles and Have Spacesuit Will Travel.

I'm sorry I still don't see books such as The Martian Chronicles as YA (and nor do most people it seems).

Looking at the tags - The Martian Chronicles has been tagged as "young adult" (or equivalent) just once.

Bradbury has a simplistic prose style, but that doesn't make his books YA. Heinlein's Have Spacesuit - Will Travel, however, was certainly written and originally published as a "juvenile".

Oh I agree Have Spacesuit was one of Heinlein's juveniles I was more picking fault with the categorisation of the two Bradbury books and the three mentions of Childhood's End.

I should think Childhood's End would be, by definition, YA.

No-one seems to have mentioned Heinlein's The Star Beast. Probably his best YA novel and I suspect the basis of Speilberg's ET.

#76

What definition, Geneg?

One of the earliest science fiction books I read was the anthology Children of Infinity, which I recently read through before handing it off to my son. It still holds up (and Wake Up to Thunder remains as creepy as I remember).

I'll also throw some Norton out there: The Zero Stone, Uncharted Stars, Moon of 3 Rings, and Exiles of the Stars to start.

I'll second The Zero Stone

#78

I think geneg might have been taking the title literally (for comic effect). When childhood ends one becomes a young adult.

Thanks, andyl. I guess sometimes my humor is a bit obscure.

80: The only problem with Norton is deciding which young adul titles to recommend - there are so many. I could just have easily chosen Judgment on Janus, Victory on Janus, No Night Without Stars and Star Guard as the ones I suggested earlier. If you have a young adult interested in science fiction, you almost can't go wrong grabbing one of her books at random and handing it to them.

Message edited by its author, May 9, 2009, 6:16pm.

Catseye, Night of Masks, and Storm over Warlock would be three of my favorites for YA, although I love the Moon of Three Rings sequence as well--and lots of people really like the Solar Queen books best. I agree with you, StormRaven, the difficulty is choosing which. I have 120 of her books in my library, and probably am still missing a couple! Hmmm, I think I have to go reread The Zero Stone now!

how is it that no one mentioned Star Hatchling by Margaret Bechard or Sara Veron's Robot Dreams?

Message edited by its author, May 9, 2009, 8:15pm.

#82

No, I'm just slow. Now that I understand the joke, it is quite funny.

I'd also recommend Andre Norton. Among my favorites when age 10 or so were Daybreak, 2250 A.D., Galactic Derelict, Witch World, and the Solar Queen books: Solar Queen, Plague Ship, and Sargasso of Space, along with a few others, I think. And, I second The Zero Stone.

Tar-Aiym Krang, and Icerigger, by Alan Dean Foster.

Dinosaur Planet and Decision at Doona by Anne McCaffrey, along with The Ship Who Sang.

Seconding D.A. by Connie Willis, and Have Space Suit, Will Travel, and Star Beast by Robert A. Heinlein

More than one vote:

7 – Ender's Game (Orson Scott Card)
5 - Jumper (Steven C. Gould)
5 - The Giver (Lois Lowry)
4 - Have Spacesuit Will Travel (Robert Heinlein)
4 - The White Mountains series (John Christopher)
4 - A Wrinkle in Time ( Madeline L’Engle)
3 - Childhood’s End (Arthur C. Clarke)
3 - The Hunger Games (Suzanne Collins)
3 – The Zero Stone (Andre Norton)
2 - The Adoration of Jenna Fox (Mary E. Pearson)
2 - The Bar Code Tattoo (Suzanne Weyn)
2 - Citizen of the Galaxy (Robert Heinlein)
2 - City of Ember (Jeanne DuPrau)
2 - D.A. (Connie Willis)
2 - The Delikon (H. M. Hoover)
2 - Double Identity (Margaret Peterson Haddix)
2 - The Ear, the Eye, and the Arm (Nancy Farmer)
2 - Fahrenheit 451 (Ray Bradbury)
2 - Life as We Knew It (Susan Beth Pfeffer)
2 - Little Brother (Cory Doctorow)
2 - The Martian Chronicles (Ray Bradbury)
2 - The Star Beast (Robert Heinlein)
2 - Uglies (Scott Westerfield)
2 - Unwind (Neal Shusterman)

Message edited by its author, May 11, 2009, 12:18pm.

One vote:

2250 AD (Andre Norton)
Alien Child (Pamela Sargent)
Aliens in the Family (Margaret Mahy)
The Angel Experiment - Maximum Ride series (James Patterson)
Another Heaven, Another Earth (H. M. Hoover)
Away Is a Strange Place to Be (H. M. Hoover)
The Bell Tree (H. M. Hoover)
The Boy Who Reversed Himself (William Sleator)
Brave New World (Aldous Huxley)
Catseye (Andre Norton)
Children of Morrow (H. M. Hoover)
Children of the Atom (Wilmar H. Shiras)
Children of Infinity (Roger Elwood)
Citizen of the Galaxy (Robert Heinlein)
Daybreak (Andre Norton)
Decision at Doona (Anne McCaffrey)
Dinosaur Planet (Anne McCaffrey)
Dragon and Thief (Timothy Zahn)
Emergence (David Palmer)
Enchantress from the Stars (Sylvia Engdahl)
Evil Genius (Catherine Jinks)
Exiles of the Stars (Andre Norton)
Exiles to Glory (Jerry Pournelle)
Fade (Lisa McMann)
Feed (MT Anderson)
Galactic Derelict (Andre Norton)
Genesis (Bernard Beckett)
The Girl Who Could Fly (Victoria Forester)
Grey Lensmen (Edward E. Doc Smith)
Growing up Weightless (John M. Ford)
The H-Bomb Girl (Stephen Baxter)
High Wizardry (Dian Duane)
Higher Education (Charles Sheffield and Jerry Pournelle)
Hover Car Racer (Matthew Reilly)
Icerigger (Alan Dean Forester)
Jumping off the Planet - Dingilliad series (David Gerrould)
The Knife of Never Letting Go (Patrick Ness)
Lizard Music (Daniel Pinkwater)
The Lost Star (H. M. Hoover)
Mind-Hold (Wilanne Belden Schneider)
The Man Who Folded Himself (David Gerrold)
Moon of Three Rings (Andre Norton)
Mortal Engines (Philip Reeve)
Night of Masks (Andre Norton)
Night Sky Mine (Melissa Scott)
Nineteen Eighty-Four (George Orwell)
Only Child (H. M. Hoover)
Orvis (H. M. Hoover)
Outward Bound (James P. Hogan)
Peeps (Scott Westerfield)
Powers (Ursula K. LeGuin)
Psion (Joan D. Vinge)
Putting up Roots (Charles Sheffield)
Red Thunder (John Varley)
The Rains of Eridan (H. M. Hoover)
Return to Earth (H. M. Hoover)
Robot Dreams (Sara Veron)
Science Fair (Dave Barry)
Shade’s Children (Garth Nix)
Storm Over Warlock (Andre Norton)
The Shepherd Moon (H. M. Hoover)
The Ship Who Sang (Anne McCaffrey)
Siberia (Ann Halam)
Solar Queen series (Andre Norton)
Starbridge (AC Crispin)
Star Hatchling (Margaret Bechard)
Starswarm (Jerry Pournelle)
Surviving Antarctica: Reality TV 2083 (Andrea White)
Tar-Aiym Krang (Alan Dean Forester)
The True Meaning of Smekday
There and Back Again (Pat Murphy)
Treasures of Morrow (H. M. Hoover)
Uncharted Stars (Andre Norton)
Un Lun Dun (China Mieville)
Wild Side (Steven C. Gould)
Wind Singer (William Nicholson)
The Winds of Mars (H. M. Hoover)
Witch World (Andre Norton)
Yanked (Nancy Kress)
Z for Zachariah (Robert C. O’Brien)
Zoe's Tale (John Scalzi)

Message edited by its author, May 11, 2009, 12:19pm.

We have 24 titles on our 'more than one vote' list - our goal was 25, so I'd like to try to spend this week 'finalizing' the list and work on starting to wikify it, if we can.

My general plan here is to list only those items which get more than one vote, in the order of the number of votes that they get, and then alphabetical (as I do in my posts).

So! Now is the time to second or third or fourth books that you think should move up the list and what-not.

If I appear to have miscounted anything, please let me know. I may not have been clear on what you meant to vote on vs. discussing - I'm happy to adjust counts!

I thought Childhood's End was mentioned as a joke. It's certainly not a YA novel. Neither is Fahrenheit 451 or The Martian Chronicles.

While at the library this weekend in northern California I saw, I kid you not, Childhood's End sitting in the young adult paperback rack. Along with the usual appropriate subjects they had a few other somewhat questionable choices from the SF realm. It is a problem with YA tho as to what the intended audience is. The Martian Chronicles may not be best for a 12 year old but a later teen should be able to appreciate the beauty and poetry in some of the stories.

If one wants to include Andre Norton in the list, which is fine - I think I'd go for Judgement on Janus.

I'll also nominate Kenneth Oppel's Airborn. High end young adult it is not, but it is a well written steampunkish adventure story. The sequel Skybreaker is good as well. I have not read the third, currently in my daughter's possession.

I'll second The Martian Chronicles. It is the rare classic that should be read. Although Fahrenheit 451 is often read in high school, I would not choose it as a YA recommendation. There is simply way too much better stuff if you want a shortlist.

Choosing great science fiction that was not specifically written for a teenage market is not an easy task. Good luck on this project.

Message edited by its author, May 11, 2009, 2:15pm.

I will second Psion by Joan Vinge and Children of Morrow by HM Hoover.

> 91

It has been mentioned as a joke by some people, but there are at least 3 honest nominations by my count, and 2 for Fahrenheit 451. I did not count the 'joke' mentions.

I think we can argue until we're blue in the face about what counts as YA and what does not - personally, I prefer to let votes be votes rather than try to police the list according to a definition that not everyone is going to agree on.

Agree with you, Aerrin99, on just letting the votes be votes.

Another one I hadn't thought of before that I don't think has been mentioned: Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes.

I have to second Aerrin here. Even with the Writers Digest definition, people still don't agree with it.

As I first suggested Childhoods End, it was not a joke. Nor was Ender. If I was 12 to 18 and read either of them, I would have enjoyed them both for various reasons. I was in that age range for Childhoods End and came to Ender much later.

Ender remains at the top of the list. Childhoods End is something that most Sci Fi readers do seem to encounter as they go through the canon of works. I think it will stand in most libraries and most adults if asked to go through their libraries to find 25 books to give to a YA person to read and get started on their Sci-FI path would pull this one to give them.

Does it have heroic action and a teenage hero triumphant, no. But if that is all that this list should have, then the top 25 would be very dull by the time you read that 25th book.

I don't read much SF marketed as YA, but I loved Little Brother.

Others I've enjoyed over the years, but have no idea if they would appeal to the youth of today:

Podkayne of Mars by Robert A. Heinlein
Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
The Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury
Growing Up Weightless by John M. Ford (I think this book had a big influence on Little Brother)

Childhood's end may not have been intended as a YA novel, but it certainly was in an awful lot of junior high school libraries (7th/8th grade). It has become a YA book in the US. Almost everyone i know who read the book, read it ~ age 11-13.

#98

Nearly everyone I know who has read Macbeth read it about age 12-13 as well. Does that make Macbeth a YA book? Same for a lot of books which aren't YA. I think that as a young SF reader you are likely to get to a point (about 12 I think) where you read every bit of SF you can find - either in your school library or the public library. I certainly did, as I expect did many, many others. So just because a book is widely read in ones teens doesn't make it YA.

I certainly see a difference in kind between Heinlein and Asimov's juveniles and their adult work. Or even between most modern YA novels and their adult counterparts. To pretend that there is really no difference and the only thing that matters is that a book can be read in one's teens and it sometimes appears in school libraries seems to me to be evasive.

I agree - especially given that reading comprehension differs from person to person. If one teen can manage House of Leaves does that mean it should be a YA book?

YA books - and juveniles as was - were specifically written for teenage readers. They are shelved in a different section of the book shop. To pretend that any book read by a teenager falsl into the YA category makes a nonsense of having the category.

I'm confused along two lines. Was this exercise to select books that Young Adults (I would have thought that ranged from 18 - 30. Shows you what I know, I just rely on the words for meaning. My mistake.) would enjoy as an introduction to SF? Or is this exercise to select the best books judged by someone who is not a Young Adult to be most enjoyable for said Young Adults from a sub-genre determined to be Young Adult by said non Young Adults?

Part of my concern here is that many of the elders here reread their favorites from when they were YA and are surprised at the poor quality of the work. Their fond memories are dashed in a sea of hackery. But for years, sometimes many years, these same people have fond memories of these works. Would we recommend that YA not read these works when they are at the age of maximum enjoyment, but postpone them until they are sure to dislike them, depriving them of the same sense of enjoyment we had when we read these books at 14 or 15?

Some books, while not written specifically for Young Adults, apparently require Young Adults as their audience because Old Adults just aren't going to like them. As I recall, I learned to read with comprehension and understanding when I was in my early teens by reading my mother's books which were decidedly NOT for Young Adults, or teenagers for that matter. I learned a lot about life by reading Adult books when I was a youngster. I grew out of what passes these days for Young Adult when I was thirteen. Being a teen is not about being mollycoddled, it's about learning to be an adult. Part of that process is introducing oneself to the adult world. I understand that that is one of the goals for Young Adult literature, but adult literature can be just as effective in that regard (The Sea Wolf, East of Eden anyone?). When I was a Young Adult I read Steinbeck's entire catalog. Let's give our kids the benefit of the doubt about reading something like Childhood's End or some other adult SF that seems to do better with the YA set.

101: Young Adult is a publishing industry term that, roughly translated, means "teenagers".

I second Fade and Peeps and Feed.

just saying that i'd bet that childhood's end is both a book that a lot of people here, at least those 50+, read in jr or senior hs, that they understood it, and it was a pathway into SF. I really don't see what the fuss is about. Clarke/Bradbury (SF) and Tolkien (fantasy) (LoTR - not Hobbit) weren't writing explicitly for what has become defined as a YA audience - but practically speaking, they did.

The difference between Macbeth and Clarke is that most kids who read Macbeth, were reading it as an "assignment" while those who read Childhood's end picked it up on their own. WTF????

just suggesting that an operational defn might be more effective than a theoretical defn in situations like this.

Message edited by its author, May 14, 2009, 1:13am.

way back up this thread, 18 said:
"While at the library today I noticed a large display in the teen section of science fiction and fantasy, with a large sign to draw attention. With the exception of a later Ender novel and one by Eddings, I did not recognize any of the featured twenty-some books. None of the ones named here certainly."

A head-turning point! I am seeing herein many titles from my (archaic) youth, a good number of authors I've read thereafter and a quite a few I don't know (thx! parents!) But what have the YA's been reading these past few years??? Does this list of 25 need a timeline or bracketing, or would this defeat the purpose?

I would be very interested in some consideration given to what is popular at the big city libraries today (let's say, the last 3 years). I understand there will always be a commercial side in play but what IS being checked out in quantity by YA?

Since where I live is very small and remote, I cannot perform such a review.

Anyone up for it?? Anyone...

Message edited by its author, May 31, 2009, 4:38pm.

105: mike61n94w
I would be interested it what Librarians are listing as Young adult and what YA's are the actually reading. It's been my observation that what was is considered YA reading is aimed at a younger audience than it was 30 years ago.

I'd like to recommend all the Heinlein juvies as a block (though I guess if you are looking for single book titles you could do worse than Have Spacesuit-Will Travel, Podkayne of Mars or The Star Beast). I have my issues with Heinlein as a person, but I appreciate he took his juvenile novels seriously. (I think his juveniles hold up better than many of his 'adult' works.)

I'd also like to fourth or fifth A Wrinkle in Time.

No one has suggested His Dark Materials. Maybe too fantasy?

Arthur C. Clarke is one of my favorites, but I don't think Childhood's End is a YA book. I tend to agree that that YA is what you find in the YA section of the book store. It may be simplistic, but it works for me.

Oh! And here in Texas, Ayn Rand's Anthem is a required school read.

Message edited by its author, May 31, 2009, 1:15am.

I'll second Heinlein's Juvies, they are all still good and I still read them from time to time. My kids read and enjoyed A Wrinkle in Time, I think it was part of a triology. They read them all anyway.

I consider his dark materials to be fantasy. I've never thought of them as sci-fi but now I think about it they do have a sci-fi side to them. I wouldn't put them in this list though.
I sixth A Wrinkle in Time.

I looked at our more than one vote last listed some 20 posts ago, and three weeks. Perhaps those 24 books are our list...

Gosh, three weeks? Sorry about that! Our semester ended and I got thoroughly caught up in grading and then summer projects.

I'll update the list with the votes since then sometime when I have a spare moment this week. After that-- well. I suppose people can still post if they like! We can wikify it?

Because I have far too much time on my hands:

Nominated at least twice:

8 – Ender's Game (Orson Scott Card)
6 - A Wrinkle in Time ( Madeline L’Engle)
5 - The Giver (Lois Lowry)
5 - Have Spacesuit Will Travel (Robert Heinlein)
5 - Jumper (Steven C. Gould)
4 - The White Mountains series (John Christopher)
4 - The Martian Chronicles (Ray Bradbury)
3 - Childhood’s End (Arthur C. Clarke)
3 - Little Brother (Cory Doctorow)
3 - The Hunger Games (Suzanne Collins)
3 – The Zero Stone (Andre Norton)
2 - The Adoration of Jenna Fox (Mary E. Pearson)
2 - The Bar Code Tattoo (Suzanne Weyn)
2 - Children of Morrow (H. M. Hoover)
2 - Citizen of the Galaxy (Robert Heinlein)
2 - City of Ember (Jeanne DuPrau)
2 - D.A. (Connie Willis)
2 - The Delikon (H. M. Hoover)
2 - Double Identity (Margaret Peterson Haddix)
2 - The Ear, the Eye, and the Arm (Nancy Farmer)
2 - Fade (Lisa McMann)
2 - Fahrenheit 451 (Ray Bradbury)
2 - Feed (MT Anderson)
2 - Growing up Weightless (John M. Ford)
2 - Life as We Knew It (Susan Beth Pfeffer)
2 - Peeps (Scott Westerfield)
2 - Psion (Joan D. Vinge)
2 - The Star Beast (Robert Heinlein)
2 - Uglies (Scott Westerfield)
2 - Unwind (Neal Shusterman)

Nominated Once:

2250 AD (Andre Norton)
Airborn by Kenneth Oppel
Alien Child (Pamela Sargent)
Aliens in the Family (Margaret Mahy)
The Angel Experiment - Maximum Ride series (James Patterson)
Another Heaven, Another Earth (H. M. Hoover)
Away Is a Strange Place to Be (H. M. Hoover)
The Bell Tree (H. M. Hoover)
The Boy Who Reversed Himself (William Sleator)
Brave New World (Aldous Huxley)
Catseye (Andre Norton)
Children of the Atom (Wilmar H. Shiras)
Children of Infinity (Roger Elwood)
Citizen of the Galaxy (Robert Heinlein)
Daybreak (Andre Norton)
Decision at Doona (Anne McCaffrey)
Dinosaur Planet (Anne McCaffrey)
Dragon and Thief (Timothy Zahn)
Emergence (David Palmer)
Enchantress from the Stars (Sylvia Engdahl)
Evil Genius (Catherine Jinks)
Exiles of the Stars (Andre Norton)
Exiles to Glory (Jerry Pournelle)
Flowers For Algenon (Daniel Keyes)
Galactic Derelict (Andre Norton)
Genesis (Bernard Beckett)
The Girl Who Could Fly (Victoria Forester)
Grey Lensmen (Edward E. Doc Smith)
The H-Bomb Girl (Stephen Baxter)
High Wizardry (Dian Duane)
Higher Education (Charles Sheffield and Jerry Pournelle)
Hover Car Racer (Matthew Reilly)
Icerigger (Alan Dean Forester)
Judgement on Janus (Andre Norton)
Jumping off the Planet - Dingilliad series (David Gerrould)
The Knife of Never Letting Go (Patrick Ness)
Lizard Music (Daniel Pinkwater)
The Lost Star (H. M. Hoover)
Mind-Hold (Wilanne Belden Schneider)
The Man Who Folded Himself (David Gerrold)
Moon of Three Rings (Andre Norton)
Mortal Engines (Philip Reeve)
Night of Masks (Andre Norton)
Night Sky Mine (Melissa Scott)
Nineteen Eighty-Four (George Orwell)
Only Child (H. M. Hoover)
Orvis (H. M. Hoover)
Outward Bound (James P. Hogan)
Podkayne of Mars by Robert A. Heinlein
Powers (Ursula K. LeGuin)
Putting up Roots (Charles Sheffield)
Red Thunder (John Varley)
The Rains of Eridan (H. M. Hoover)
Return to Earth (H. M. Hoover)
Robot Dreams (Sara Veron)
Science Fair (Dave Barry)
Shade’s Children (Garth Nix)
Storm Over Warlock (Andre Norton)
The Shepherd Moon (H. M. Hoover)
The Ship Who Sang (Anne McCaffrey)
Siberia (Ann Halam)
Solar Queen series (Andre Norton)
Starbridge (AC Crispin)
The Star Beast (Robert Heinlen)
Star Hatchling (Margaret Bechard)
Starswarm (Jerry Pournelle)
Surviving Antarctica: Reality TV 2083 (Andrea White)
Tar-Aiym Krang (Alan Dean Forester)
The True Meaning of Smekday
There and Back Again (Pat Murphy)
Treasures of Morrow (H. M. Hoover)
Uncharted Stars (Andre Norton)
Un Lun Dun (China Mieville)
Wild Side (Steven C. Gould)
Wind Singer (William Nicholson)
The Winds of Mars (H. M. Hoover)
Witch World (Andre Norton)
Yanked (Nancy Kress)
Z for Zachariah (Robert C. O’Brien)
Zoe's Tale (John Scalzi)

1. Ender's Game
2. Artemis Fowl
3. Stormbreaker in Graphic Novel Version
4. The Wish List
5. The Ear, the Eye, and the Arm
6. Anthem
7. Heir Apparent

are all decent books I would recommend for younger scifi fans.

Heir Apparent I second as well as the Hunger Games.

1. House of Night Series
2. Twilight series (of course!)
3. Need (Carrie Jones)
4. Wings (Aprilynne Pike)
5. A Great and Terrible Beauty (Libba Bray)
6. The Mortal Instrument Series (My favorite personally!)

In what way is Twilight Science Fiction?

Message edited by its author, Nov 15, 2009, 9:45pm.

I don't think any of those are science fiction. More like YA paranormal romance and YA urban fantasy. The Host by Stephenie Meyer on the other hand is actually supposed to be science fiction . . .

Message edited by its author, Nov 15, 2009, 10:08pm.

#119

"The Host" is SF. Just really poorly written.