I have just finished reading Travel as a Political Act by Rick Steves and found it very thought provoking and would love to discuss it.

Have you read it? If so, what did you think?

I will start the discussion by saying that Rick is a local author for me. The book is up front in that it was written from a US traveller's point of view which could feel 'backwards' to those outside the US but still I think there are interesting points for anyone reading it.

Haven't read it yet Carol but, perhaps tangentially related, here's an interesting link about America & Europe that suggests the some differences are exaggerated:

http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/artic...

Thanks TSORAMA, that was an interesting article and touched on a few of the same topics as Rick Steves did. I will be interested to hear what you think after you read his book.

There was a statement in the article that was a real eye opener to me - does Britian (or even Europe) consider the US to be more religious then Europe? I live in Washington State on the west coast which, admittedly, is consistently named one of the least churched states in the US so perhaps my viewpoint is skewed but I would have considered Europe to be much more religious. Yes, we have the southern Bible belt and they are a vocal and politically active group. Yes, we tend to be prudes when it comes to sexuality and nudity...I'm assuming that is tied to religion. However, in my travels around Europe, I see a church steeple usually marks the center of town. Many businesses are closed on Sundays. My impression is that Europeans observe more relgious holidays then the US. Divorce and abortions still feel more taboo in at least some European coountries then in my part of the US. Some European countries have a state religion whereas the US attempts to seperate church and state. I have not had this perspective come up in any of my travels. Isn't it funny how different perspectives can be?

Thank you again for sharing the article and adding to the conversation.

Carol - I think that the view from Europe might be that the religious groups in the US are more strident in their views, i.e. certain groups have high visibility and (at least until recently) a lot of political influence - which they have tried to use in day to day life.

In reality I expect that there is wide variation in the US (Washington state, as you point out, is different to the bible belt) just as there is in Europe (the UK apart from parts of the Scottish highlands has very little church 'interference' in day to day life, but parts of rural Europe still are very traditional in that the church does have a part to play in everyday life).

The book sounds interesting, I hadn't heard of it before.

I think you have a good point zenomax. What shows up on the news may not be a broad reflection of society but it does affect our perceptions.

Rick Steves is a local travel guru - he writes travel books, does a travel TV show, has a radio program, and offers tours. His primary audience would be North Americans travelling to Europe. I don't know if his book is availble across the pond but you can check his blog out at http://www.ricksteves.com/tapa_blog/ and get a good feel for what is in the book. His travel business is focused on travel to Europe but this book goes beyond the EU.

I haven't read the book, but I did read the article from Prospect and your questions, and I have a few comments as a European, a Norwegian and an extensive traveler.

I'd say that we don't necessarily think that the US is "more religious" than Europe. However, we are sort of scared by how a group, large or small, of religious people with what we consider fairly extreme views gets to decide how things are done over there, often in the name of religion.

This includes among other issues:
- That creationism is still taught/mentioned as an alternative to evolution in some schools and is given serious coverage in the news.
- The way Islam seems to be feared by so many and considered more or less to be an evil force, when it's "just another Christianity", really.
- The whole "pro life"/anti-abortion movement.
- The medieval idea of nudity having anything to do with sin.
- That winning athletes and other award winners often take the opportunity to thank their god for his grace in allowing them to win.

... and so on.

And it doesn't help that "God bless America" is said by so many, so often and with such confidence.

Regarding the religion you've observed in Europe:

- You find churches in every town centre because they were the focal point of every community a few hundred years ago, when they were built. Go there for Sunday service, and you won't have problems finding somewhere to sit, to put it mildly.

- The reason shops are closed on Sundays doesn't have anything to do with religion anymore. It's all about "socialism" and the belief that there should be at least one day in the week when pretty much everyone has the day off. That day is not spent going to church.

- Divorce is not a taboo. It's not mentioned very soften simply because it happens so often. And also because many choose not to get married, they just live together instead, and no one has a problem with that.

- Abortion is sort of a taboo, in the sense that it's not talked much about. However, that has nothing to do with religion, but with the unpleasant circumstances that may have caused the need for an abortion.

- We may have more religious holidays than in the US, but they're not observed as religious holidays to people, they are just days off work.

- Having a state religion does not mean the state is run by religion. It's just the way things have always been, and there is concern that if the church had to "run itself", we would soon have lots of town centres with churches that fall down and hit people in the head. Which would be a shame, since churches are often magnificent buildings and a part of the cultural heritage of Europe. In general, religious leaders have little impact on politics in Europe, only what they are entitled to in a democracy, through the votes of the people supporting the religious parties. In my country that means around 5-6 percent of the population, and those voters are generally old and dying.

It IS funny how different perspectives can be. I don't claim any of what I said is the truth, but it IS how I perceive it to be. #8D)

Happy trails,

Bjørn
http://bjornfree.com/

Hi Bjørn, and thank you for adding another perspective to our discussion.

You said "we are sort of scared by how a group, large or small, of religious people with what we consider fairly extreme views gets to decide how things are done over there, often in the name of religion." ME TOO!

I was lucky enough to visit Norway in 2005. We took the overnight boat from Copenhagen to Oslo and arrived on your Independence Day to be greeted with parades, flag waving, and many people wearing traditional or ceremonial clothing - very nice! We stayed with friends in Oslo for a few days and then took a road trip west to the fjords. Norway is very beautiful.

Bjorn - you do include an interesting snippet of information which I had forgotten about. A number of countries in Europe do have political parties which are specifically aligned to a religious group.

This is different to both the USA and the UK (with the exception of Northern Ireland). I am sure this is largely because of proportional representation, but it does give religions an opportunity to participate in civil life and influence policy more directly.

Carol: I'm glad you got to experience our Constitution Day. Although it can be argued that with all the flags and self-praise that comes with it, maybe it's a bit too much, I still think it's a nice celebration overall. It's been conducted exactly the same way since way before we found oil in the North Sea and became a rich country, and the day is all about the children, not about soldiers or showing off. And it certainly has nothing to do with any particular religion. (I'm trying to stay on the topic here. #8D) )

Zeno: Actually, the main religious party in Norway ("The Christian People's Party"/Kristelig folkeparti) claims that they have many followers from other religions than Lutheran Christians, including Muslims and Jews. In Norway we generally don't register with a party and who votes for which party in the elections is obviously a personal secret for most people. So I suppose we'll just have to take their word for it, and conclude that this political party is not aligned to A religious group, but to religious groups in general. Which makes sense. First of all because all the major religions share a lot of values, and secondly because they certainly have lots of shared interest (public funding of religious groups in general, public support for maintaining religious buildings, and so on).

There is an interesting conversation occuring in this thread http://www.librarything.com/topic/67126#... that seems pertinent to our discussion. See messages #293, 295, 298, 302.

It is a long and heated thread about a different topic. But it is interesting to me to see how the US, UK, and Netherlands view freedom of speech differently.

I have not yet read Travel as a Political Act although I found his UK guide very useful when I was visiting and picking random Welsh B&Bs.

There was also an interesting Salon.com article before his program on Iran aired.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2009/03...