Very good, also 很好!
ps why doesn't the blog post show in "From the Blogs" on my home page?
It updates every 15 minutes, I think.
And so it did. Thanks.
Not wanting to be nitpicking, but... ;-)
My preferred language (and in consequence the language of reviews) is set to German. With IE 7, I cannot change the language of reviews. Detailed bug report at:
http://www.librarything.com/topic/67326Never mind. I asked a mind-numbingly stupid question. Oy vey. I have to get a job soon before my brain melts out my ears!!!
Message edited by its author, Jun 24, 2009, 7:56am.
Here's weirdness - My review of Howard Moss'
Instant Lives was showing as being in Dutch. It's not. I don't even
know Dutch!
I changed it, but still - it
was odd!
>7 Don't know Dutch ?
Now there is a lack in your education ! ! !
Let's start with a popular word with tourists: Koffieshop (pronounced: Coffeeshop). A place where they sell lousy coffee and excellent Marihuana.
I just went to 2 books (on the book page) to look at reviews and don't see the new banner, either at the top or the bottom of the reviews. Where does the banner show up ?
I agree with Papiervisje. LT clearly shows that Dutch is the second most important language worldwide ;-)
I found it, but it seems pretty useless for me. It is on the review page that lists all my books reviewed by other people. I have over 4,000 reviews.
Even sorted by title that list is too big to be worthwhile to use. If I want to know about a book, I go to the book page and look at the reviews there. Sorting out the foreign language reviews on the book page would be good.
Just looking at the English reviews on the review page is still over 3,000.
Also the numbers don't seem to match up.
English (3,887)
All languages (4,096)
Showing 1-30 of 3658
Shouldn't what it is showing me match either all reviews or the English ones (default) ?
>9
It's only there if it needs to be—if reviews are in more than one language. You saw it on the profile page because it applies. The two books you picked don't have more than one language going on.
You're right. I went to a translated book and it was there. But the counts are still odd. It says 3 in English, but only 1 shows up ? I couldn't get more by clicking on the English link.
http://www.librarything.com/work/596955/...Maybe the counter counts the reviews in the private libraries also? Just a thought
Ah. Quite possible. Will check tonight.
I went in this morning to see if the count for English reviews in #13 had been fixed. While there I thought I would look at all the reviews (says 6) to see how many English reviews there really were. I clicked on All Reviews, and nothing changed. I can't make any more reviews show at all for the book.
There are 5 private members so the 3 for English may actually contain 2 of those. Hopefully Tim will show up and say if he had a chance to check. If you click on any of the other language, the reviews in this language show up,
But the All reviews still filters by language and shows only the English ones, you are right about it :)
Sorry. Didn't fix it last night. I delivered a server from Maine to Boston and installed it. It took until 3am to get back...
So shouldn't you have still been sleeping at 9:40 am ? Hope you don't have to take them 1 by 1, even if there aren't 700,000 of them.
Message edited by its author, Jun 25, 2009, 11:22am.
I just checked the same book again. There has been an addition so now there are 7 reviews total.
It seemed too much of a coincidence to me that the 5 missing reviews just happened to belong to the 5 private users. So I went to look at the foreign language reviews. I clicked on the different languages, the reviews in that language show (Danish , German and French).
But All reviews still only shows 1 of the English reviews. If the 2 missing English reviews are real and private, perhaps you should create a private category and put them there ? otherwise the counts will look wrong when the private ones don't show. Or at least have a note that there are private reviews.
Message edited by its author, Jun 25, 2009, 2:21pm.
I think that the private reviews just should be removed from the counting... (if this is really the reason for the missing reviews).
But why All reviews show only the English ones is a bit more mysterious :)
OK - this behaves differently on the bg site:
http://bg.librarything.com/work/596955/b...The 7 are visible from the ALL Languages tab but the English again shows only 1. And all the 7 profiles are public. So I guess the reason for the whole thing is somewhere else...
Message edited by its author, Jun 25, 2009, 3:18pm.
Sorry people. I'll fix this as soon as possible. I had to spend the day preparing for tonight's big move—and considering how last night went, sleeping. The site may be broken tomorrow, but it'll be fast and broken.
Tim, I am just trying to help you find out what's going on - no grumbling on my part - just checking things here and reporting what I see. :)
I think it's fixed.
Yeah just poking around and reporting what I find, not complaining.
Not criticizing either. Just explaining.
Tried again. Same book #13
There are 3 reviews showing for English, but only 2 are. The third is this:
Ein sehr spannendes Buch, das sich unglaublich nah an der Realität bewegt.
German or Germanic ?
It doesn't show up as one of either the counted German or Danish reviews.
Also All Reviews still says 7, but only the English reviews show (2 English, 1 foreign)
> 27 : German
>27 - It's German but maybe the user had set it to English?
Matt beat me to saying which language it is - need to refresh before posting. :)
Message edited by its author, Jun 25, 2009, 4:36pm.
I just tried something. I thought maybe the default language setting of the user's library might be overriding the ability to show All Languages reviews. So I went and set my default to German. Looked at book 13, and it still only shows the 3 quasi-English reviews, and didn't change when I clicked on All Reviews. I stayed on .com site and didn't go to .de
OK.
I can see all reviews properly when I am on the Bulgarian site (and on the German site)
When I am on the English one- I see the three English ones (although one of them is actually German), the 2 Danish, and the other 2 (the German and the French) but ALL Languages defaults to English and shows only the 3.
We get separate cookies for each site, eg Bulgarian, German or English, and maybe that is influencing which review languages we see when we switch.
Deleted cookies and caches on all three sites - the language sites behave in the same way (the German and the Bulgarian - there is a German review but no Bulgarian and they still behave the same), the English one seem to be different...
Someone explain to me what problem remains?
Yes, incidentally, what you see is based on (1) Your choice, (2) What's there, (3) What language you are on.
If you are on the Dutch site, and there's a Dutch review, it defaults that.
If you are on the Dutch site, and there isn't a Dutch review, it defaults to "All."
If you are on the Dutch site, but you have previously selected German, then it fails Germany -> All.
on the .com site the book in 13 says there are 7 reviews total. When you click on All Reviews it only shows the 3 English reviews, you can't get it to list all 7. The different languages do show when you click on them
In addition, the 3 English reviews are comprised of 2 English reviews and 1 German review. The German review listed as English is not the same as the German review listed as German (so there should be 2 total German reviews, and only 2 English reviews).
35: Maybe there should be a way to flag a review as a particular language too?
> 34:
Okay - using FicusFan's example (http://www.librarything.com/work/596955/reviews):
I'm logged in from the .com site so it shows me English by default - that's fine.
But it shows one German review as in English.
And if I click "All Languages" it takes me back to those "English" reviews - not showing me the 2 Danish, 1 German, and 1 French.
#37
That's exactly what I see for that work. It won't show me all seven at once. All Languages shows the three English (including the misclassified one by Shava-chan).
ETA: on the German site, it all works properly.
Message edited by its author, Jun 26, 2009, 4:10am.
Tim,
When I am on the English site and press " All languages ", I do not see all 7 reviews but only the 3 English ones.
When I am on any other site, all is ok and I see the 7 reviews when I select All Languages - regardless if the is the BG site (no review in Bulgarian) or the DE one (there is a review in German).
>35&37 - the German review showing up as English most likely has the language set to English. So I am not sure this is a bug at all.
> 39: Agreed, I'm not convinced that's a bug either. But just in case... Can't hurt to have Tim (or & Co.) taking a closer look.
Trying from the Dutch site gave me the exact same result by the way.
It may not be a bug, but there should be a way to either assign a wrong review to the correct language, if known, or an unclassified group if you don't know. I understand the user can do their own, but if you find reviews that aren't yours and are wrong ?
>42 and maybe the user has abandoned LT or isn't using it enough to know about the different languages in reviews. I agree there should be a way for other users to assign the review to the correct language.
>41 - same as from the English one? Or from the rest of the Language ones?
>42&43 - yep, agree. We should be able to do something for these.
> 44: Sorry, same as from the English one.
Now this is weird - I just checked the Dutch site and i see the same as on the German and Bulgarian. What do you see if you go to the German site? Looks like the problem appears on your own language site (if there is at least one review in your language maybe? or there is something else into play) and on the English one....
You're right, this is getting weird. German site first wouldn't show me any reviews at all - but that changed after I manually altered the works address to include .de instead of .com too. Then it functioned fine.
(German site wouldn't let me post here though - which I think is weird too, but obviously a different problem).
Off to check some other variant sites in languages I understand well enough to navigate. And will recheck Dutch site - in case that was just some glitch.
#47: BarkingMatt "German site wouldn't let me post"
Maybe you weren't logged in to the German site?
Oh yes I was, just like I'm now logged into the Italian site. No such problem here.
All other sites I visited (Danish, French, Italian, Spanish) worked just fine and problem didn't repeat on Dutch site either. Don't understand, but ah well....
(By the way, it's a bit unpractical that you have to manually adjust all those internet addresses, or get nothing at all.)
Yes, but using the link I put in #37 I ran into an empty recommendations page. I had to change it to librarything.de/work/etc. before it showed any reviews at all (similar for Danish, Spanish, French, Italian, etc.)
Can't understand why I couldn't post from the German site. It simply kept demanding that I signed in even though I was. Couldn't get through. None of the other language sites posed that problem.
Correct, but I don't understand why that gives me an empty reviews page (instead of an English language one) when I approach it from the German / Danish / Dutch / Italian / French / Spanish sites. Maybe I'm just not tech enough though ;-)
You mean that if you are click on this link at this page when you are on one of the language sites, it shows a blank page instead of showing the real content ? It sounds like you have some major issues with your cookies and/or caches an/or whatever...
I just tried - clicked on it from the German site, it led me to the English site.
That's exactly what I mean. Okay, apparently that's on my side. So, signing off to mess with cookies & caches
Sorry. I think the problem is fixed.
Works for me now.
Yes, it seems to be fixed. Thanks.
Thanks Tim, it is fixed. There is still the problem though of the 3 English reviews. Its not a bug, but its still wrong. There are really 2 English Reviews and one German Review listed as English. How do we fix that ?
Message edited by its author, Jun 27, 2009, 7:32am.
"one German Review listed as English. How do we fix that ?"
Is this a power that we should be given, even if some of us want it? After the automatic initialisation of this piece of new information, it is for each of us a piece of their own personal catalog. Like the rest of our own data, it should remain inviolate. If today you can correct the language of my reviews, will you tomorrow want to correct my spelling? Reverse my obviously ill-considered opinions?
Fine if you are still here, but it looks like the poster was last here in July 2008. What about abandoned accounts? And people change information in CK all the time that impacts other's books (series).
I don't care if 'we' are the ones to fix it, just that there is a mechanism to do so in a timely manner.
Whether a user entered it or it was an automatic classification, its wrong data and should be fixed. What is the point of having all this information capability if its populated with bad data ?
Message edited by its author, Jun 27, 2009, 8:47am.
There is no mechanism for correcting any other bad data in abandoned accounts. I suppose some sort of temporary power to change review language in clearly abandoned accounts might be defensible.
Well there are other mechanisms to correct bad data from others whether they are here or not:
You can change or add to the series information
You can add or change Canonical Title
You can add or change Author Name
You can flag into hiding a review that isn't ($7.99, Hall Closet ...)
You can combine books that someone enters as a one off that isn't
You can uncombine books that are improperly joined together
The user may still keep their bad data in their Library, but its impact on the community is removed or lessened.
Also it needn't absolutely be a user power - though I could imagine Tim & Co. not wanting to do the cleanups on demand.
All those things we can all change are CK and external to our personal catalogs.
Yes. So is this.
I am not talking about changing the language of the account - which in this case looks like it should be German anyway. But of moving the review out of the wrong group count. I would think it should be moved to an unclassified or contested group, since not everyone who knows its not English may know what language it is. Even a way to get a certain number of flags to do it, so one person can't wreak havoc.
"Yes. So is this. "
No it isn't. It's part of the review.
No it isn't. Its an external feature added after the review was done.
A new feature added after the review was done. That's why an attempt at intelligent initialisation was praiseworthy. From now on, we set the language when we write the review, and it's our own decision what language we want the review to count as.
it's our own decision what language we want the review to count as
Well, yes, I suppose so. But isn't this really supposed to be simple factual information? I mean, I could write in Dutch and claim it was Russian, but... So wouldn't we then need a flag for "wrong language" or something like that?
"I could write in Dutch and claim it was Russian"
More realistically, you could write a mixture of Dutch and Russian and have what you think are good reasons for considering one of them primary.
I think the consensus is against me, but I've expressed my objection to external interference with my choice of nominal language, so I'll leave it at that.
But this isn't about saying what the language is, so much as what it isn't. The review is clearly not English. Neither would your Russian/Dutch mix be English. Since outsiders and those who don't read those languages have no way of knowing, an unclassified/contested category makes sense.
It makes LT look stupid when it comes up saying a review completely in German is English.
73/74: Maybe instead of a flag to change the language, a flag to change it to unset?
I think we need a flag-language feature of some sort. It's a little tricky, though.
64>
Well there are other mechanisms to correct bad data from others whether they are here or not:
You can change or add to the series information
You can add or change Canonical TitleTrue.
You can add or change Author NameNo you can't. If someone has an author name entered wrongly, no amount of changing will fix that. (This is part of why I've long wanted a "Canonical Author" by title.)
As an example, several people have
Rockhound's Guide to California credited to
Octavia E. Butler. This is wrong. Of the names listed as holding the book, one has it right, one is private, and one is abandoned (no activity since the first day they joined, and I left a profile comment six months ago mentioning the error, but it's still wrong). Nobody can fix this, unless more people add this obscure book with the correct author -- so a prolific author will forever have an incorrect book on her profile.
You can flag into hiding a review that isn't ($7.99, Hall Closet ...)No, you can't. No number of blue flags will actually hide a non-review; the most they can do is move it down the list.
No, you can't. No number of blue flags will actually hide a non-review; the most they can do is move it down the list.
Never seen a blue flag, only red. Red flags hide the review.
Red flags are for TOS violations only. Blue flags for "this is not a revue".
(OT reply to
>77 - re: rockhound's - I went to see if I could "float" correct author for you - but there were already enough correct entries in the system for the correct author to float on combining. Turns out that Amazon has the author wrong so I submitted a product update so future imports should be correct. - Feel free to post problem works in Combiners! some folks are pretty handy with just this sort of problem.)
Re: review language
- I agree that the review itself is personal data and should not be touched. The new feature assigning a "language" to old data - I don't think that it is unreasonable to be able to mark something as possibly the wrong language.
One possible thought - ability to hit an "unclassify" button - review owner gets automatic private comment that someone questioned the language - if they do
nothing (which is what will happen if they are no longer active) it converts to unclassified. Otherwise they can re-confirm or re-set the language.
Message edited by its author, Jun 28, 2009, 9:28am.
> 79 Yes. But Red works and Blue doesn't. I don't really flag much myself, but its Red flags I see not Blue.
> 81 : Oh, I agree the functionaliy of blue flags sucks. I had a few in the past (when I was new to LT I accidentally put some comments in the reviews field) and I would have liked to have been notified I was doing it wrong.
But this is why lorax was correct in stating that you can't flag a review into hiding - as long as you use the intended flag.
> 80 thank you for combining the book with the right author. I got it separated from the main OEB, and combined with GAB, but couldn't get it out of the OEB fragment.
if they do nothing (which is what will happen if they are no longer active) it converts to unclassified. Otherwise they can re-confirm or re-set the language.
The problem there is that "unclassified" shows up as "English" in the reviews UI. When the member looks at his books, he can see the difference, but it doesn't show up in the list of languages. With about 1/7 of reviews unclassified—mostly because they're short or even just a URL—the "unclassified" language would be rather prominent, and about 95% are English anyway.
#84: timspalding "The problem there is that "unclassified" shows up as "English" in the reviews UI."
Not so much the problem as your problem :)
If you aren't yourself King of the UI, you can tell the Duke of UI to change it.
Ha. But I agree with the UI.
Not a problem then :)
But how about showing the unclassifieds not just as English, but with every language. OK, there's the problem of how to count — I'll let you solve that.
Message edited by its author, Jun 28, 2009, 1:43pm.
How about just those that are flagged and not fixed by their posters showing as unclassified ? That way the majority will be English, but those that are obviously wrong will be separated.
80>
I've actually done a fair bit of Combining, thanks, and don't need to be treated like a total newbie. I'd worked on this one months ago and couldn't get it to float at the time.
>89 I'm sorry if you feel affronted by my attempt to help. I don't presume that I know all the in-and-outs of every single feature of LT despite the fact that I myself am not a "total newbie" - I learn new twists everyday, so I don't expect all "old-hands" to be equally familiar with all LT's little quirks.
The fact that you cited incorrect author assignment as something that was not fixable, i.e. you wrote "Nobody can fix this, unless more people add this obscure book with the correct author -- so a prolific author will forever have an incorrect book on her profile." implied to me that you were unaware that it could, in fact, be fixed. If someone else, say a "total newbie," came along and read this they might not realize that these type of problems can be legitimately brought to the Combiners! group for "fixing".
(I may, I admit, have been unclear in my reply since, for the example you gave, no "float" was actually required, just a "combining").
>84/86 - Ha! I should have known it was one of those "computer-y" type problems.
#90: PortiaLong " Ha! I should have known it was one of those "computer-y" type problems."
When it's a UI-y type problem, we can discuss it, and it's not unknown for Tim to change his mind.
I guess, but it's all Geek to me. ;-)
Message edited by its author, Jun 28, 2009, 5:04pm.
Really nice feature. Language was correctly guessed in 3/4 of my reviews and I've converted the rest. I noticed that "Auto-change English reviews" changed all the Unset ones. So PowerEdit of review languages seems broken, but I've changed my 2 Norwegian and 10 English by hand, so I don't really care :-)
This is a great feature--it's wonderful to see LT trying to be more accessible and useful for non-English users.
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet or not: When on my review page, it automatically has English reviews selected. But, when I click the link to view another language or all languages, the sort changes from whatever I had it on to date with the arrow pointing up (reverse date?). Not a huge deal, but annoying to have to resort each time and wait for the column to reload.
90>
It was mostly your tone. I always assume people know what they're doing and what they're talking about -- and in this case would have said something like "It looks like more people have in fact added the book since you looked at it". Before I explained something so very basic I certainly would have looked at the profile of who I was responding to -- in which case you'd have seen I'm a member of Combiners and have a gold Combining badge. It just seems that a minimal level of politeness is "Don't treat someone like an idiot". I've been Combining since the feature was introduced. I don't hang out much on the "Fix this book" thread, largely because it's horridly inconvenient (nobody bothers to distinguish between trivially fixable issues and those requiring either clever Firebug URL-manipulation or adding fake books to your library), but I'm quite familiar with the concept. You seemed to think I'd never even heard of Combiners.
maybe i will use google translation to understand Dutch..
Is there any way to mark reviews we come on that are not in the language they are listed as?
http://www.librarything.com/work/538/rev...There are two reviews in with the English here that aren't.
(And one in 'Dutch' that is English.)
Message edited by its author, Aug 11, 2009, 2:07am.
#97: MarthaJeanne
See
#76 (above): timspalding "I think we need a flag-language feature of some sort. It's a little tricky, though."
Message edited by its author, Aug 11, 2009, 2:41am.
I find it interesting that I currently have a review in my reviewed by others list with "Thingamabraian (the ideal language)" as the associated language.
edited for clarificationMessage edited by its author, Aug 11, 2009, 8:32am.
Wow. I'm jealous!
>99
Presumably that user has Thingamabraian set as their primary language in their profile.
Thingamabraian is one of the offered languages in the pull-down list for review language, so we can all use it.
Has the bug mentioned in 94 been looked at? It's still happening for me, and is rather annoying.
> 103, don't think its a bug, thats how they have sort working. People complain about it all the time, because it does the same in the catalog.
They're quite unrelated. Nor is that true. In the catalog, if you sort by something, and then select a subset, like a tag, it keeps the sort you were on.
105> So, is it supposed to re-sort on its own when on the profile reviews page?
I can see it either way, but, yeah, on balance I think it shouldn't.
But when you sort it always sorts backwards (oldest first) and then you have to change it. People do complain about it all the time.
The reviews sort newest first wherever reviews appear.
Books sort first to last, like everything else you can sort by—sort by date, and it sorts 1950 before 1960. Before, when I flipped ascending and descending, users complained it worked differently than everything else.
109>The reviews sort newest first wherever reviews appear.
But that's not what's happening when you select a new language on the profile reviews page. No matter what your current sort is, it changes to oldest review first once you click a language.
109> I don't really care on the catalog page - two clicks or one, the difference is minimal. But when I'm on the Home page and click Recently Added, that link _should_ sort newest first right off - it's annoying that it takes the time to load the library and what shows is my oldest books. I suspect that it was created to do normal sort at a time when normal sort was newest first - now it needs to sort reversed. Please?
111: Pretty please?
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