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Group:  Le Salon Litteraire du Peuple pour le Peuple ignore
Topic:  Thinking aloud thread for 2010 0 / 318 read

Sep 20, 2009, 3:38pm (top)Message 1: EnriqueFreeque

Moved this from M&M what page are you on thread so as not to derail or distract from that discussion....

What do you guys think of this idea for next year (I love the Don Quixote idea btw): the salon lists one book a month. Members pick and choose which reads they'd like to participate in, reads can overlap (who cares really?) as each book would be on a separate thread, people could comment and come and go as they please, depending on how fast they read.

For example, not that I'm saying the following would necessarily be the books, but just to throw out an idea of what I'm thinking.

Jan 2010.....Sense and Sensibility.
Feb 2010.....Infinite Jest
Mar 2010.....Don Quixote
Apr 2010.....A Passage To India
May 2010....The Crying of Lot 49
June 2010....Swann's Way
July 2010.....The Stranger
Aug 2010.....Moby Dick
Sept 2010....The Brothers Karamazov
Oct 2010.....Claudine
Nov 2010.....You Bright And Risen Angels
Dec 2010.....Our Mutual Friend

bold = reads presently determined.

We wouldn't necessarily need leaders per se for the non-bold reads (everyone who contributes here regularly are leaders imho already anyway).

So we'd have featured reads (the bold) with optional monthly reads for those who zip through the bold reads really fast.

What do you think?

Message edited by its author, Sep 20, 2009, 3:38pm.

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Sep 20, 2009, 3:50pm (top)Message 2: Macumbeira

sounds good to me.
I understand that nothing is compulsory anyway and I'll try to fit it in my private reading schedule.

It is indeed interesting to share thoughts regularly reading the same books
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Sep 20, 2009, 5:09pm (top)Message 3: Medellia

Ooh, I like it. Especially if some of the reads are slightly less chunky than our upcoming reads are--that'll maximize my own ability to join in regularly.

(When do we get to argue about books? For example, I love the idea of A Passage to India, The Crying of Lot 49, and Our Mutual Friend, but would choose a different Austen if I had my own way... :)
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Sep 20, 2009, 9:40pm (top)Message 4: EnriqueFreeque

Oh let's begin arguing in, say, how about, maybe, perhaps, oh I don't know, so let's just say...right now!
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Sep 20, 2009, 10:20pm (top)Message 5: tomcatMurr

I disagree with everything.
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Sep 20, 2009, 10:36pm (top)Message 6: Medellia

Yay!

OK, as I said, I second A Passage to India (sweet sweet Forster), The Crying of Lot 49 (I must get around to Pynchon sometime!), and Our Mutual Friend (which a dear prof recommended to me years ago, I'd love to be able to tell him that I read it). The others are also intriguing and there's not one on the list to which I say "ewww no!"

Re: Austen. Sense and Sensibility is not a favorite of mine. It's an early work, rougher and flatter than the four later novels, and many of the characters don't come to life for me. (It strikes me as falling between the 1-D satire of her early works and the 3-D satire of the later novels.) However, I do find it to be one of her funniest novels.

Emma and Persuasion are my two faves. Emma is polarizing, though I think it's largely a matter of people liking or hating the protagonist, and I think the critiques would rise above that element in this group. My hypothesis is that Emma would generate the most discussion. I find Persuasion to be her most mature work with the most perfect balance of satire, pathos, moral seriousness, and lifelike characters. Pride and Prejudice is also a delightful novel, but I suspect it might not bring about as much discussion as the other two.

Didn't mean to write a book there, but that's my two cents (four? eight? sixteen?) on an Austen read--let the debate begin. I will also throw out there for consideration two Important Pieces of Literature that I've not read: Madame Bovary and Lolita.
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Sep 20, 2009, 11:07pm (top)Message 7: tomcatMurr

I'm just being a silly contrary bugger. Ignore me. She said she wanted to argue, so I said I disagree.....(Getting low on herring here)

I think your suggestion is a good one, Enrique. I'm not sure I'll join in on the Austen, though.

On the other hand, if we have too many books going at the same time, I'm worried that the Salon will lose focus. I like the idea of bringing everyone together once every couple of months for a big group read, but still have time to read our own stuff. Contraction/expansion. For me the conversation is as much the interest as the book. I also like the knowledge that when I am curled up in bed with a hefty tome, I know that Anna in PDX is on the bus with it, Medellia is in her garrett reading it, Mac on his yacht etc etc etc. Know what I mean?

I'm not sure what i'm saying here. Oh dear. Just I love the salon. hic.

Errm.

Another idea just come to me. What about if a salonista invites others to join in on anything they are reading. For example, I plan to read Notes from Underground before the end of the year, and would welcome anyone to join in.
The ones in bold on your list are definitely ON, though, right?
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Sep 21, 2009, 12:39am (top)Message 8: EnriqueFreeque

This message has been deleted by its author.

Sep 21, 2009, 12:46am (top)Message 9: EnriqueFreeque

Yes, bold are definitely definites.

I do love that idea, tomcat. We really needn't be so...formal with our planning, do we? I like stucture, but I like even more, spontaneity. All I ask is (as if I possess any authority here...definitely not!) that should you and others read something on the side, please please please at least link us to where we may follow along. Novels have been written w/in novels, have they not? Likewise, why can't there be group reads w/in group reads? Or maybe even group reads w/in group reads w/in group reads too: A veritable group read Chinese puzzle, a la Cloud Atlas, eh?

Message edited by its author, Sep 21, 2009, 12:47am.

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Sep 21, 2009, 1:00am (top)Message 10: Macumbeira

without structure we will not be able to read the same books at the same time. Joining a groupread or not should remain open. But a consensus should be agreed on the timing and on the different books we would tackle. Here the specialists should advice : If Dostoievski .... which one , If Hugo, Which one ... ? etc

And mind you.. Since I joined the salon, i got used to "very good books"

Message edited by its author, Sep 21, 2009, 1:07am.

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Sep 21, 2009, 9:19am (top)Message 11: Medellia

I tend to agree with Mac, but then again, I'm all about structure and syllabuses and so forth. And sweet shy gal that I am (bats eyelashes), I'm not sure I'd be comfortable speaking up and inviting people to read something with me, or joining in with someone if I didn't know that a few other people were going to do so as well.

But I'm guessing we have a shortage of shy folk in this group, so it may not be a material point. ;)

#7 tomcat: Oh dear. Just I love the salon. hic.
Group hug!!!
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Sep 21, 2009, 10:43am (top)Message 12: geneg

I'm new here, so I don't know if I should speak up. I belong to a couple of other groups that do group reads and am desperate to get a group read on early 20th century Americans like Frank Norris (I've been trying to get one group to read The Octopus for ages.

I would like to suggest Jack London, or Frank Norris, or Sinclair Lewis, or Late Henry James, or Theodore Dreiser, or Boothe Tarkington, or someone from the turn of to about 1930. This is an area that I am light on and I suspect most here are unless you have a specialty in this era. If you do, all the better, maybe you can recommend the best of the period.

Now, I've made known my preference ... for now.
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Sep 21, 2009, 11:59am (top)Message 13: MarianV

#12 Robert Penn Warren All the King's men is his best-known, but has others, his earlier works are better
Henry James is over-unfluenced with English writing
The "Muckraking "novels written early in the century are difficult reading and dated. But "Oil" is right on & Sinclair Lewis is probably the best writer of the genre.
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Sep 21, 2009, 12:12pm (top)Message 14: Macumbeira

Jack London for grown-ups ? Martin Eden !
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Sep 22, 2009, 7:39pm (top)Message 15: EnriqueFreeque

12,13...great suggestions all. I'd be game for any Sinclair Lewis. Elmer Gantry perks my interest a lot. As does the Frank Norris. You're never too new to speak up. Those who do are more likely to get the book they want for a group read.

7,11...you just love the salon, eh? Well, I just got back from having lunch with gluteus2themaximus, and he hates the salon. He said it stinks worse than sulphur or brimstone. He hates the pretentious books we read; books he believes should only be taught (and not read) in school, where they belong. And he pretty much can't stand any of us. He's glad to be gone, and said for me to be sure and not say hi to any of you.
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Sep 22, 2009, 8:46pm (top)Message 16: Medellia

#15: Poor gluteus. With the recession and all, his tips at work must be way down (it was the worst of times, indeed). You can really tell, he must've been in a foul mood when you saw him. The next time you see him, give him a big hug for me and tell him to keep his chin up and his hips a-shakin'.
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Sep 23, 2009, 1:02am (top)Message 17: tomcatMurr

>15 ...and wipe his chin for him, he is dribbling HP sauce all over his jowels. Disgusting.
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Sep 27, 2009, 9:30am (top)Message 18: richardderus

Elmer Gantry Elmer Gantry Elmer Gantry Elmer Gantry

Boo hiss on Austen

The Golden Bowl is good late James. McTeague is the best Frank Norris ever did, and it's a pretty darn good read even now.

My review of The Crying of Lot 49: "Og think nasty writer-man laughing at Og."

One month for Moby-Dick? Really? What about White Jacket in its place, or Typee? They're books that a month of discussion should just about do for.

Dickens = Satan. Just sayin'.
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Sep 27, 2009, 1:24pm (top)Message 19: Macumbeira

guess it will be Redburn instead of Moby. Ganeshaka just convinced us
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Sep 28, 2009, 1:15am (top)Message 20: Mr.Durick

Library of America has both Redburn and Moby Dick in the same volume along with something else.

My review of The Crying of Lot 49: "Og think nasty writer-man laughing at Og."

Richard, this is the single most sensible thing I have ever heard said about The Crying of Lot 49.

Robert
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Sep 28, 2009, 5:28am (top)Message 21: tomcatMurr

This message has been deleted by its author.

Sep 28, 2009, 7:08pm (top)Message 22: polutropos

Sheeeeeeeeeeet (oh, oops, am I allowed to say that or am I breaking the rules of conduct, or what is it called, OS, OT, OR? Am I going to get FLAGGED here?

Enough, enough. I think I had too much herring. Murr, here are two for you.

You guys are SO MUCH FUN IT IS SICKENING.

This is definitely my new favourite place to be and I have not even started M and M yet.

Yes, to the whole damn list. I will NOT read Moby Dick in a month or in three months for that matter. Gave up on it I think it is three times now, and yes, of course everyone but everyone knows it is the greatest American novel of all time, so shoot me, but no, I will not try it again. Billy Budd I liked, but no whales for me. A Passage to India is one of my favourite novels and I will have a thing or two or thirty to say about it. I loved Martin Eden thirty years ago and would be happy to look at it again. I will try the Proust. Dickens is not Satan for me, in fact "Barkis is willing". Fun, fun, fun. And I will, Murr-style, jump up and down in excitement, maybe even faint if we do Madame Bovary.
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Sep 28, 2009, 8:29pm (top)Message 23: richardderus

>22 Murr said that...? Guess that's what was deleted. I'm down wit' Emma-baby if others want to oh, I don't know, replace that hussy Austen with Gustave? Hmmm? Hmmm?

If it makes you feel better, I'll flag you.
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Sep 28, 2009, 10:40pm (top)Message 24: Macumbeira

Why not Flaubert's "Temptation of St Anthony" ? That is not an easy book, Gustave rewrote it three times and still he was not happy. You can compare it with Goethe's Faust, a book and a subject pondered over during his whole life.

From the "Devil in the city" to the "saint in the desert" ?

It is not too thick ( 200 pages or so ) and it got only one review on LT
More time to think than to read !

Message edited by its author, Sep 28, 2009, 11:12pm.

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Sep 28, 2009, 10:54pm (top)Message 25: Macumbeira

Tomcat, could you please erase your posts after I read them ( not before )?
I am in a different time zone and missing all your dirty jokes

Message edited by its author, Sep 28, 2009, 10:54pm.

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Sep 29, 2009, 1:06am (top)Message 26: tomcatMurr

sorry old thing.
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Sep 29, 2009, 9:14am (top)Message 27: polutropos

Over on ClubRead2009 avaland is in the last stages of finalizing the 2010 monthly reading, and she is talking about setting up voting.

Is it going to be a democratic/plutocratic decision-making here as well, or is our Leader, May the She-Wolf Give Him Health Forever, going to make the final call?

(I am of course just happy to be here, and happy with any process at all.)

That said, although I LOVE LOVE LOVE Madame Bovary, I have never read Temptation of Saint Anthony and the Goethe Faust comaprison sounds fantastic. (M., have I told you recently you are great? LOL) I would love to read and think about that. Perhaps we should ALL read those two works, so we can all discuss them?
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Sep 29, 2009, 9:39am (top)Message 28: Medellia

If nobody else is going to stick up for Austen, I'll be willing to jettison her. Temptation of Saint Anthony doesn't look like it would be the best choice for my maiden voyage with Flaubert--perhaps I could get to Madame Bovary on my own first, though.
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Sep 29, 2009, 11:31am (top)Message 29: Macumbeira

If you are new to Flaubert then start with :

Three Tales, by Gustave Flaubert

The first tale, "A Simple Heart," tells of a simple lady who has a parrot which dies and is stuffed. The second, "The Legend of Saint Julian the Hospitaller," is an account, written in medieval style, of a saint. The third, "Herodias," tells of the beheading of St. John the Baptist.

A simple heart is a "modern" "realistic" story which hints at Bovary, "L'education sentimentale" and in the end "Bouvard et Pecuchet"

the two others hint at "historic topics" like "Salammbo" and the "Temptation of Saint Anthony"

Flaubert is much much more than Bovary. You would probably like Salammbo which is basically a love story in an outrageous setting in an outrageous time. Every sentence is a gem.
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Sep 29, 2009, 11:39am (top)Message 30: wisewoman

I would stick up for Austen, but it's no fun forcing people to read her. So whatever you guys pick.
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Sep 29, 2009, 11:46am (top)Message 31: Macumbeira

wise words woman !
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Sep 29, 2009, 1:04pm (top)Message 32: urania1

I like Austen, but I would substitute Persuasion - a much darker novel than her other world. However, the Austen work, which leads to most interesting discussion, is Mansfield Park. I think one could well substitute Edith Wharton's The Age of Innocence or The House of Mirth for Austen.

A Brazillian writer I like is Clarice Lispector. She is brilliant - one of the greats of the late, not-so-great 20th century. She has both short novellas as well as longer pieces.

I must confess that I love The Crying of Lot 49.

What about Musil's The Man without Qualities - 2 volumes? I've read a bit.

And Le Clézio? A brilliant writer.

Norris and Lewis? Light weights imo :-) . . . but I still have enjoyed reading them.
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Sep 29, 2009, 2:48pm (top)Message 33: geneg

Norris may be a lightweight but I think his topics are very prescient for today. If more people read The Octopus or Vandiver they may have a better grip on what is being done to us today. Besides, he's fairly well unknown today and it would serve to remind that the early west gave us more than Zane Grey and Little House on the Prairie.

I, too, have enjoyed Austen and would re-read either Emma, Persuasion or Mansfield Park, or even Northanger Abbey, not so much S&S or P&P. But then I'm pretty much a sucker for 19th cent. Lit. regardless of who writes it. Late twentieth century, not so much. Too much reliance on invention, stylistic tricks, and word games. I don't want to read with a desk full of reference material at hand to tell me what the author is really saying, or to help me understand how incredibly witty that last allusion was and so forth. I read two by Nabokov recently, Pale Fire and Bend Sinister two books that only existed as platforms for Nabokov to brag about his intellectualism and allusive style. While they were fun, they just amounted to books of word games. Very annoying. I enjoyed The Sotweed Factor and Catch-22 when I was 16 more than I enjoyed Nabokov at 60+. Maybe, had I read Nabokov then, I would have enjoyed him, too. I'm old fashioned, I guess, just give me straight ahead story telling.

Something that might be fun would be to read Emma or P&P and follow that up with The Portrait of a Lady or The Golden Bowl, just to see how that age slid from the well marked paths of Austen to the indolence and ennui of the same folks at a later date.

Another interesting comparison might be Emma, Middlemarch and The Golden Bowl.

Oh, well, I just wanted to defend Norris as being particularly relevant to today.
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Sep 29, 2009, 3:02pm (top)Message 34: urania1

geneg,

What about this?

Pride and Prejudice, Portrait of a Lady, and Custom of the Country (Edith Wharton gets stuck in HJ's shadow way to much imo) . . . or we could read The Complete Novels of Charles Dickens.

P&P would also work nicely with Wives and Daughters. Both about daughters, marriage, wives, and fathers.

and there's alway Vanity Fair, a nicely wicked little read
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Sep 29, 2009, 3:18pm (top)Message 35: geneg

I think I'm about to read Vanity Fair for another group read.

I have a somewhat standoffish relationship with Edith Wharton, she creates very sympathetic characters and involves them with the most unsympathetic people. The House of Mirth near single-handedly turned me into a raving socialist. However, I would be happy to read Custom of the Country.

I enjoy HJ more I think, for his precision of phrase and his technical skill. He reminds me of a pointillist with words. Once finished, his books return to me over and over again. I'm reading The Demons by Dostoyevsky right now and am looking forward to The Bostonians next.

Someone else that gets short-shrift is William Dean Howells. Not as good as James, but exploring interesting ground, nevertheless.
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Sep 29, 2009, 8:04pm (top)Message 36: tomcatMurr

The Bostonians is fab! I'm with you, gene, on the 19th century. I love Austen, but I have read all of them so many times, I'm not ready for another Austen read for a long time.

And noone needs to be ashamed of liking The Crying of Lot 49. Quite the contrary.

Golly, we are putting together a list that will keep us group-reading until the mid twenties!

Enrique, are you there? I think we will need some executive decisions. I still think we should stick to the HUGE TOMES on the group page and invite others to join whatever we are reading in between. I would like to see and follow some of the discussions on the books mentioned so far, but not necessarily read them again.
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Sep 29, 2009, 8:32pm (top)Message 37: EnriqueFreeque

There will be no voting in Le Salon! I do not believe in the democratic process. Where I'm from, in Cuba, nobody has the right to vote. It would not be right, when my brothers and sisters in Cuba cannot vote, to give the salonistas the right to vote. That would be hypocritical of me. So, just as Fidel or his younger brother now, has the final say, so shall Henri Freeqy, IV, after he's listened to what everybody says (Fidel always listened to le peuple...before carting them away, and so shall I always too listen to le peuple, and not do the carting away) determine in his mind the zeitgeist; the salon's consensus. I like to listen some more to le peuple and keep listening to le peuple until Nov. 1, at which point I will listen no more, and begin carting away those who still offer suggestions after the cutoff (la guillotine) date of Nov. 1, 2009.
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Sep 29, 2009, 9:10pm (top)Message 38: polutropos

You are f----ing hilarious.

Up with Fidel, down with the people!

Revolutionaries to the guillotine! The square will flow with your revolutionary blood! No more discussion! No prisoners, no gulags, all to the guillotine!

Long live Henri Freeqy and his descendants!
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Sep 29, 2009, 9:24pm (top)Message 39: urania1

For a nice, long (1800 pages), challenging read, what about the two-volume Musil novel The Man without Qualities.
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Sep 29, 2009, 10:20pm (top)Message 40: richardderus

Elmer Gantry Elmer Gantry Elmer Gantry Elmer Gantry Elmer Gantry

Why inflict Pynchon on the long-suffering populus Cubanae of the Internet? Is there some hidden hostility to your elders and betters at work here?

So...Austen is losing gravity and atmosphere here? That about the size of it? *crosses fingers*

And Chuckles the Dick? No passionate defenders? Good!
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Sep 29, 2009, 10:29pm (top)Message 41: EnriqueFreeque

muchas gracias polutropos

urania, I love your idea of The Man without Qualities. However, it is too long for one of the side-month reads. But, I think it deserves serious consideration for the first "big" group read (where we have official leaders; as opposed to the monthlies which I foresee people who read the book simply talking about the book and us not really needing "official" leaders - God, is it just me or am I beginning to sound totalitarian when I pronounce "official leaders" - sheesh!) beginning in 2011.

I think one big group read (meaning one huge book) per season of the year, sounds about right, and then inserting smaller works each month for those maybe not reading the big reads. And like Tomcat, I may not read every month's read, but I definitely want to hear about the read from those who do read. It may be premature to put Musil up for Winter 2011, but Musil deserves a slot soon most definitely. Widely underread, important work (and I'm basing that on only having read Vol. One). We might, like we're doing with Proust next summer, just play it by ear and see if the group really wants to go all out and read both volumes or just stick with the first initially (we can always give ourselves a break and come back to it).

You guys are inspiring me, all of you. I love all your suggestions. I'm thinking maybe the salon needs to develop a 5 Year Reading Plan, starting with the biggies (difficult, long, tomes) four per year, followed by the shorter monthlies.

For 2011 and beyond, I'd like to suggest the following tome also as a "biggy" read: Kristin Lavsrandatter (sp?) by Sigrid Unset.
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Sep 29, 2009, 10:31pm (top)Message 42: EnriqueFreeque

Security!!! Please escort that DickensDerus from the premises pronto!!!
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Sep 29, 2009, 10:38pm (top)Message 43: EnriqueFreeque

I'm presently writing down every suggestion on note cards and tallying votes, yea or nay. I count Elmer Gantry only as one vote dear richard, regardless of how many times you wrote Elmer Gantry in your post. Once you've made the suggestion, stuffing the ballot box with the same suggestion, will not result in a higher tally for your suggestion, be advised.
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Sep 29, 2009, 10:57pm (top)Message 44: polutropos

OK, then,

if the revolutionary blood is not quite filling the square yet, let me reiterate that Macumbeira's suggestion of reading Temptation of Saint Anthony with a companion read of Goethe's Faust is IMHO brilliant.

And I do love Five-Year-Reading Plan. I am genuinely rolling on the floor laughing here. Do we get socialist ribbons for exceeding the plan in year three, perhaps? Will Comrade Stalin himself perhaps visit our humble village if we exceed by 200%?

You are talking to someone who spent his childhood in exactly that kind of society, with portraits of the Great Leader in every office, every waiting room.

Up with Fidel! Up with Comrade Freeqy!
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Sep 29, 2009, 11:26pm (top)Message 45: Macumbeira

Well said Polu ! LOL ! Didn't we just visit Stalinist Moscow ?
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Sep 29, 2009, 11:33pm (top)Message 46: solla

I think I will be happy with nearly all of these selections - the point for me being to read something I might not otherwise that may be long or otherwise challenging. But then, revisiting works I read long ago is appealing as well. One of these is the Children of Violence series by Doris Lessing - I think there are five in the series, beginning with childhood in South Africa and ending with the Four Gated City set in London. Les Miserables and The Brothers Karamotsov are also in that category.
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Sep 29, 2009, 11:34pm (top)Message 47: EnriqueFreeque

Le Salon Litteraire is the opiate of Le Peuple.

Let them eat cake.
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Sep 30, 2009, 12:00am (top)Message 48: EnriqueFreeque

In response to Urania's post 212 over in the what page are you on thread:

212...I think a lot of us are through with M&M, yes, but I know there's at least one member, PrincessPaulina, who won't be here until sometime in October, and I suspect our leaders might still have a few critiques and analyses up their sleeves, to post our way....I sure hope they do!

With that said, let's definitely hold off, if we can, with Les Miz until Dec., when wisewoman, Macumbeira, and Dick will lead Brave Team Salon (BTS).

But, I'm presently feeling very magnanimous toward you all at the moment (I've had my vodka & herring), and whether it's warranted or not, is irrelevant. So, Urania, would you be so kind as to pick for us a short work for October (give everybody who wants to join, say, a week to obtain it, and then let the reading commence). Those who don't join in Urania's read will have their monthly allotment of potatoes rationed from one sack to one potato.

Geneg!! You newcomer you!! I'd like you to guide us through The Octopus in November, if you're able. If you're not, how's Siberia sound?

My compassion for Le Peuple is infinite.
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Sep 30, 2009, 12:17am (top)Message 49: Macumbeira

may I humbly make a suggestion : why not the most interesting beautiful text ever, written by the great Kleist : On the Marionette Theatre
It is short, you don't have to buy anything, (just click on the link) and it makes your head spin forever.

http://www.southerncrossreview.org/9/kle...

Message edited by its author, Sep 30, 2009, 12:39am.

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Sep 30, 2009, 12:54am (top)Message 50: tomcatMurr

is one 5 year plan enough?

don't forget DickensDerus will be leading a group read of the collected works of his hero CD, so that will need at least a couple years.

Sola, I agree with you:

the point for me being to read something I might not otherwise that may be long or otherwise challenging. Musil falls into that category for me (i have already read it once before, but I must confess, most of it was way over my head- I was in the process of moving to Taiwan at that time, and had far too much on my plate to take it all in.)
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Sep 30, 2009, 8:57am (top)Message 51: richardderus

I resist! I reject! No Dickens, not now not ever!

*wraps his solitary potato in his brioche*

As for Elmer Gantry...well...can't hang a boy for tryin'...oh wait....
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Sep 30, 2009, 11:19am (top)Message 52: geneg

EF, I'll give it a shot. November, eh. Okay. Keep in mind I am no kind of Norris expert and I read most books on the surface and take them at their word (so to speak). So depth of discussion will have to come from someone else.
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Sep 30, 2009, 1:24pm (top)Message 53: WilfGehlen

>48 I'm glad you mentioned the Princess, EF. I was thinking the same thing and hope she checks in when traveling is done.
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Sep 30, 2009, 1:44pm (top)Message 54: polutropos

I might not be of royal blood, but I will also start M and M in October, and perhaps might have a thought or two related to it.

I look forward to reading the various commentaries by the illustrious leaders as well.
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Sep 30, 2009, 4:06pm (top)Message 55: urania1

Okay here's the October book The Hour of the Star by Clarice Lispector. Order a used copy; it will come in faster. In fact if geneg is willing, we might do Norris in October and Lispector in November since Norris is on PG and Lispector must be ordered. You make the call Enrique "Fidel" Freeque. Didn't there used to be a sock puppet by that name? ;-)
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Sep 30, 2009, 4:16pm (top)Message 56: Macumbeira

No it was Infidel Freaky
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Sep 30, 2009, 5:45pm (top)Message 57: EnriqueFreeque

Geneg,

Can you do The Octopus in October by any chance?
Tell you what; I've got a copy of the Octopus somewhere; I'll get us off and running if you're not able to, Geneg, on such short notice. We'll start The Octopus, say, this Sunday, Oct. 4th.

Then we'll do Urania's The Hour of the Star in November.

Yours truly,
Infidel Castro
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Sep 30, 2009, 5:59pm (top)Message 58: anna_in_pdx

Somehow this and other threads do not show up on my thread feed (or whatever it's called) on my home page so I missed this discussion. Damn. So I have no idea about the Octopus or who Norris is, but will go to the library webpage right now and reserve it!
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Sep 30, 2009, 6:42pm (top)Message 59: bokai

>47

I will read any book if it comes with cake.

Who am I kidding? I will read any book, as long as my library stocks it!
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Sep 30, 2009, 6:45pm (top)Message 60: WilfGehlen

I'm in the same boat, Anna. Hmm, a new pic. I like. I can't go online every day and I usually have a listing of my posts up and miss new threads. Maybe if I cull a few groups. Naw! Maybe a sock puppet would help.
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Sep 30, 2009, 7:43pm (top)Message 61: geneg

I can do The Octopus in October. Do you want me to set up discussion threads? I prefer one thread/book but others seem to want a thread/section. I can roll either way, just let me know.
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Sep 30, 2009, 7:58pm (top)Message 62: EnriqueFreeque

Let's start with one and see where it goes from there. Gracias, geneg!
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Sep 30, 2009, 8:16pm (top)Message 63: EnriqueFreeque

59...yes we have been lax with Japanese lit haven't we? How about The Silent Cry by Kenzaburo Oe? Didn't it win the Nobel prize? Who were you thinking? There's the usual suspects of course: Yasanari Kawabata, Kobo Abe, Yukio Mishima, Haruki Murakami -- only the latter (and only one book) have I read of these. Who'd you have in mind?

Bokai, are there any Japanese writers who don't have the letter "K" in their names, do you know? I'm just curious.
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Sep 30, 2009, 8:21pm (top)Message 64: EnriqueFreeque

Wait, I think I'm on the wrong thread! Bokai, you mentioned I Am A Cat somewhere. So yes, I would second that, especially, if as Anna has queried, Pekoe The Cat would help guide us.
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Sep 30, 2009, 8:31pm (top)Message 65: urania1

What about The Tale of Genji. And just for the record, I do't like five-year plans. I like decade plans or even centennial plans. The advantage of the centennial plan? That allows three certainties in life instead of two: death taxes, and this reading group.

Message edited by its author, Oct 1, 2009, 7:31pm.

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Sep 30, 2009, 9:00pm (top)Message 66: WilfGehlen

So how, may I ask, can man be in control if he can't even draw up a plan for a ridiculously short period of time, say, a thousand years . . . We must begin to think stochastically, like Harry Seldon. Hmm, taking the long view, it doesn't matter where we start, just that we start (which we have) and keep on going (which we will).
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Sep 30, 2009, 9:26pm (top)Message 67: solla

Ok, I have put both The Octopus and The Hour of the Star on hold. Please tell me that we are settled on at least one of them before Anna and I have put the entire Multnomah Co. Library on hold.
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Sep 30, 2009, 9:58pm (top)Message 68: EnriqueFreeque

I've already read the first three pages of The Octopus - I think it hooks you in pretty good. This guy, Frank Norris, was 32 when he died! How sad, and yet what a legacy's he's left us for one dying tragically so young. Though perhaps those comments should be in The Octopus thread. So, yes, Solla, you and Anna put Multnomah Co. library on hold! I think it's more fitting doing The Octopus in October, don't you?
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Sep 30, 2009, 10:07pm (top)Message 69: EnriqueFreeque

Urania & Wilf, brilliant minds, brilliant minds. I too was pondering (as a goof) coming up with a ridiculously long reading plan. Perhaps someone could call out a year like saying (shotgun!!), beginning with 2011, and so on and so forth, and that person is responsible for coming up with 4 huge tomes for us to read that year, and then 8 shorter books (secondary reads) for the remaining months. Of course everyone's selections will be up for critique and discussion, and selections can be changed anytime. All of us our collaborating pretty much on deciding the secondary reads for 2010, so who wants to take 2011? I'm calling out right now 2097!
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Sep 30, 2009, 10:11pm (top)Message 70: urania1

Me,

I'd like to go back in time to 666 C.E. We could only read works published by this date.
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Sep 30, 2009, 10:16pm (top)Message 71: EnriqueFreeque

Oh Wow! Awesome! Yes, time is a continuum isn't it - past and future.
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Sep 30, 2009, 11:28pm (top)Message 72: bokai

The Tale of Gengi is a great story, but man is it long! And Murasaki Shikibu has not one k, but two in her name. Please let us not read anything by Murakami, I've read enough of him for a while, though a group read might help me figure out what I'm missing. Mishima was a nutter, so perhaps he would be best suited to the group!

My favorite Japanese novel so far remains Kokoro, but it's rather Japanese in its ability to depress.

I pick 2012, if my television is right I won't have much work to do, maybe a few pages in January and then we dive into a new ice age!
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Sep 30, 2009, 11:38pm (top)Message 73: WilfGehlen

>70 According to the historical timeline:

657-680 CE The earliest poem written in English, Caedmon's Hymn, is composed.
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Oct 1, 2009, 1:55am (top)Message 74: RSHabroptilus

Why stop at Swann's Way? Why not the WHOLE THING.
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Oct 1, 2009, 2:04am (top)Message 75: nakhonsit

it is all old thing.
http://nakhonsithammarach.com
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Oct 1, 2009, 9:27am (top)Message 76: Medellia

'Rique, a (Japanese) friend of mine tells me I should read Osamu Dazai. No k! I'd be up for putting The Tale of Genji on our 2011 list. :)

#74 RSHabroptilus: I think the original plan was to read all of Proust, and the modified plan is to read Swann's Way and see who's up for continuing. I suspect I'll be rereading the whole shebang, so I'm sure I'd be happy to keep going with reading threads for the other volumes.
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Oct 1, 2009, 11:14am (top)Message 77: tomcatMurr

I need to lie down now.
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Oct 1, 2009, 11:15am (top)Message 78: tomcatMurr

What are they putting in the vodka?
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Oct 1, 2009, 11:35am (top)Message 79: polutropos

Here, Murr,

two herring and good Czech vodka, made out of good cobblestones by the gulag muzhiks.
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Oct 1, 2009, 12:04pm (top)Message 80: Macumbeira

Dobriden Pan Polutropos
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Oct 1, 2009, 12:18pm (top)Message 81: polutropos

Dobry den,

jak se mate?

I forgot now, is it Brussels you are in? Belgium or Netherlands, I am sure, but I forgot.

I would really have to push my linguistic abilities to be able to approximate Dutch.

Comment ca va? and Wie geht's? I can do.
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Oct 1, 2009, 12:23pm (top)Message 82: geneg

I have a much easier time translating (albeit, minimally) Dutch than French. For the most port English seems to have more cognates with Dutch. For all
English's slickness it is not a Romance language. The few cognates we have with French came from France into English rather than evolved from some common precursor.
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Oct 1, 2009, 12:32pm (top)Message 83: tomcatMurr

Medellia, are you still there? I think we need a group hug.
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Oct 1, 2009, 1:58pm (top)Message 84: Macumbeira

It's Ghent Polu ! And we prefer that you call our language Flemish instead of Dutch.

Indulge our particularities
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Oct 1, 2009, 2:01pm (top)Message 85: WilfGehlen

Picking up from post 76, perhaps a gentle introduction to the eastern arts through manga?
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Oct 1, 2009, 3:19pm (top)Message 86: Medellia

#83: I was molding young minds when you made your plea ("for the last time, 20-something young men and women at an Ivy League university, could you please read the directions on your assignments"). But now I am here to fulfill your request, in the cutest way possible.



Also, a Google images search for "group hug" turns up some interesting results. Regrettably, I decided against the group hug pic with the oiled weightlifters in their underwear.
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Oct 1, 2009, 3:38pm (top)Message 87: EnriqueFreeque

I think that was a very unwise decision Medellia! I hope you'll reconsider!

Message edited by its author, Oct 1, 2009, 3:49pm.

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Oct 1, 2009, 3:43pm (top)Message 88: wisewoman

Thank you, Medellia, for sparing my retinas :P
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Oct 1, 2009, 3:50pm (top)Message 89: EnriqueFreeque

No, Medellia, don't spare our retinas any longer. Please!

Message edited by its author, Oct 1, 2009, 3:50pm.

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Oct 1, 2009, 3:54pm (top)Message 90: Medellia

*Medellia is torn*

:)
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Oct 1, 2009, 4:34pm (top)Message 91: wisewoman

*feels like the good angel on Medellia's shoulder, halo and all* :P
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Oct 1, 2009, 5:41pm (top)Message 92: richardderus

Cats, minions of Satan that they undeniably are, or nearly naked men...hmmm...let's see....
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Oct 1, 2009, 5:52pm (top)Message 93: EnriqueFreeque

I used to know this ultra-ripped, bodybuilding gramma really well, who enjoyed the writings of DFW. Perhaps I should post photo here (if someone else won't!), no?
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Oct 1, 2009, 9:02pm (top)Message 94: tomcatMurr

Adorable kitties!!!!

ultra-ripped, bodybuilding gramma???

Oh please do!!!!!! is she oiled?

Message edited by its author, Oct 1, 2009, 9:04pm.

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Oct 1, 2009, 9:24pm (top)Message 95: RSHabroptilus

Hur hur, what is the story behind that Gramma photo (& accompanying story), EF? Did you just find that on the mighty Interwebs, or...no...NO! I can't think it.
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Oct 1, 2009, 10:03pm (top)Message 96: EnriqueFreeque

She's my beloved grandmother Elaine (R.I.P.) Thanks for asking Todd.



1997 Champion Senior Bodybuilder of Cuba
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Oct 1, 2009, 10:34pm (top)Message 97: tomcatMurr

*Murr faints*
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Oct 1, 2009, 10:57pm (top)Message 98: RSHabroptilus

...Seriously?

I mean.

Wow. Well. Wow.

No. You have to be joking. Cuba? Trudy-Ireland?

Message edited by its author, Oct 1, 2009, 10:58pm.

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Oct 2, 2009, 9:40pm (top)Message 99: booksfallapart

Wheee! As a long-time lurker (but one who is very excited to delurk for Les Miserables, let me express my unequivocal support for cramming as many books in as possible. I mean, I like the idea of sticking to the tomes too--giving us an excuse to read all those cultural monoliths big enough to build a book fort out of--in keeping with the tradition set by Ulysses, Tomcat Murr, etc. But I also like the idea of low-hanging fruit, letting people engage as much as possible on whatever level time permits.

What I will confess feeling confounded over is the group's amazing ability, not to choose books I've already read (I'm sure many of us have that difficulty), but books I've already read in the last few years. Ulysses, Master and Margarita, Don Quixote, Passage to India, Swann's Way, Moby Dick, Brothers Karamazov--all big and fat, and all within the last year or two for me, as first reads or rereads. So it tickles me to no end to have some other reads to sit in on if when! tacking Proust twice in two years proves too daunting a prospect.

On that, let me endorse (hard!) I am a Cat and suggest some more: Anna Karenina? Gargantua and Pantagruel (this suggestion is close to my heart)? Doctor Faustus? Something by Orhan Pamuk, perhaps? For a shorter book, something Balzac? Genji? Salman Rushdie? Joseph Roth's Radetzky March?

This is all very exciting.
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Oct 2, 2009, 9:41pm (top)Message 100: booksfallapart

Wheee! As a long-time lurker (but one who is very excited to delurk for Les Miserables, let me express my unequivocal support for cramming as many books in as possible. I mean, I like the idea of sticking to the tomes too--giving us an excuse to read all those cultural monoliths big enough to build a book fort out of--in keeping with the tradition set by Ulysses, Tomcat Murr, etc. But I also like the idea of low-hanging fruit, letting people engage as much as possible on whatever level time permits.

What I will confess feeling confounded over is the group's amazing ability, not to choose books I've already read (I'm sure many of us have that difficulty), but books I've already read in the last few years. Ulysses, Master and Margarita, Don Quixote, Passage to India, Swann's Way, Moby Dick, Brothers Karamazov--all big and fat, and all within the last year or two for me, as first reads or rereads. So it tickles me to no end to have some other reads to sit in on if when! tacking Proust twice in two years proves too daunting a prospect.

On that, let me endorse (hard!) I am a Cat and suggest some more: Anna Karenina? Gargantua and Pantagruel (this suggestion is close to my heart)? Doctor Faustus? Something by Orhan Pamuk, perhaps? For a shorter book, something Balzac? Genji? Salman Rushdie? Joseph Roth's Radetzky March?

This is all very exciting.
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Oct 2, 2009, 11:47pm (top)Message 101: RSHabroptilus

At least one month (maybe two) (and speaking of months a month to read a book is a ilttle long bro for rills) should be dedicated to something obscure as a mother to find and bring back to the spotlight! (of this group!)

...As long as people would seek the book out to join in...
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Oct 3, 2009, 12:11am (top)Message 102: EnriqueFreeque

I second your excited sentiment Martin! All very good suggestions. I am a Cat is getting some heavy pimping of late, seems like. There is also another member here, unlucky, who's big on, if I recall, The White Castle by Pamuk, a short, but fairly complex read.
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Oct 3, 2009, 12:51am (top)Message 103: booksfallapart

I don't think he's topped My Name is Red but I haven't read (The White Castle or) everything he's done by any means.
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Oct 3, 2009, 2:19pm (top)Message 104: virapol

I new in this group. I am Czech girl, not speak English very good. My lover Katrina, she always say me, "Vira, you must read, you have good brain, we read together." I listen to Katrina, I love her. Last year we read Dostojevskij together in Czech. Good book! The she say, "Read James Joyce!" Hard, hard book, even in Czech. It is about two months, Katrina say, now we read more Russians, in Czech. So together we read Mistr a Marketka by Bulgakov. Very very funny, in Czech. I like this book! But now I in Canada, Katrina stay in Brno, in Czech Republic. I must make lots money to go back to Katrina. So I look for friend who talk books with me, when I no have Katrina. Your group talk Bulgakov, yes? I talk with you, even when English not very good, yes?
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Oct 3, 2009, 2:33pm (top)Message 105: Macumbeira

sockpuppet warning ! sockpuppet warning !
is the salon boldly going where it has been before ?

Message edited by its author, Oct 3, 2009, 2:37pm.

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Oct 3, 2009, 3:57pm (top)Message 106: EnriqueFreeque

Oh Mac, be quiet you little joker you! You boisterous Belgian Waffle!

Welcome to the salon, virapol!
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Oct 3, 2009, 5:14pm (top)Message 107: virapol

I read much what people say here. Next is no Bulgakov but book about octopus? I check my dictionary I understand octopus now. Is fiction book like Kafka, you know Kafka Czech?, in Kafka change to bug, here change to ocotpuss? Long tentacle, spread poison, very very big symbol, my Katrina say thing like that me always. I learn much from her. I miss her much.
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Oct 3, 2009, 6:05pm (top)Message 108: EnriqueFreeque

Why yes, virapol, I believe you're referencing The Metamorphosis, a book that would definitely be a stellar selection for the salon.

I'm so sorry about your Katrina. You sound awfully lonely. I've a link for you, which, while probably not being representative of your one true Katrina, might nevertheless help alleviate your loneliness. I hope you enjoy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmxSL6H2Q...
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Oct 3, 2009, 6:50pm (top)Message 109: Mr.Durick

I watched that all the way through. I like how she jumps about especially at the beginning.

Meanwhile did everybody already notice that virapol spelled backwards is lopariv?

Robert
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Oct 3, 2009, 7:26pm (top)Message 110: polutropos

Mr. Durick,

thank God for your vigilance.

"Lopariv" is scary indeed. I consider that most ominous. Combined with the reference to Gregor Samsa, we have much to be leery of. And tentacles? We might need to fumigate the Salon.
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Oct 3, 2009, 7:34pm (top)Message 111: Mr.Durick

I like tentacles. I've eaten tentacles. In my dating years I might have liked to have a tentacle or two.

Robert
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Oct 3, 2009, 8:17pm (top)Message 112: EnriqueFreeque

Stop it! I'm dying. I'm rolling on the floor and I can't get up.
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Oct 3, 2009, 8:42pm (top)Message 113: virapol

You nice man, Enrique. You try make Vira happy about Katrina. Katrina in video no like my Katrina. My Katrina much much bigger and can no jump like that. Her, you say bosoms?, so big she fall if she jump like that. But I thank you for video. Your name nice name. Is good poet I know in Czechoslovakia. He no Czech, no, he Ecuador. Enrique Adoum, he like Neruda. Good name, good poet. You poet, too, Enrique? I know you good man.

I no understand about name backward. Is joke? Joke hard to understand in other language. I try make joke with my friends in Canada, they no laugh.

I miss my Katrina. Maybe I go to club, see other girls like Katrina. But maybe no. I just cry for my Katrina. Is cold here.
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Oct 3, 2009, 10:36pm (top)Message 114: EnriqueFreeque

Thank you Vira. I'm so sorry to hear about Katrina's jumping challenges due to her upper torso's disproportionate mass (in comparison to her total body mass), and tendency toward abrupt disequilibrium when attempting to jump.

I do like Pablo Neruda. Love, actually. Here's a quick Neruda snippet for your poetical edification: "only shadows know the secrets of closed houses/only the forbidden wind/and the moon that shines on the roof." I've had that memorized since college.

I once fancied myself a poet. But fancies do not poets make.

Have you ever listened to "Stairway To Heaven" backwards, speaking of backwards? I have.

I do hope you'll be reunited with Katrina very soon. Because when you're reunited, it will feel so good....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2vvOPsiV...
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Oct 4, 2009, 3:19pm (top)Message 115: WilfGehlen

The Metamorphosis was yummy, especially in the original Czecho, WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE? Vira, for you a video collage to remind you of home.
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Oct 4, 2009, 4:06pm (top)Message 116: urania1

Do not take The Metamorphosis lightly when virapol, otherwise known as the DREAD VAMPIRE Countess de Vira, is concerned. Metamorphosis may be closer than you think. And about Katrina? There's a reason she's unbalanced. Finally, watch out for Czechs. They will czech-mate you if you are not careful. Mac, be wary and watchful. I would not call Countess de Vira a sock puppet if I were you.

But on to more important details. I think given our glorious dictator's (long may he live) penchant for Joyce, we should read Finnegans Wake. Why? Finnegans Wake is high on our glorious (long may he live) tyrant's liste de shit. What higher recommendation than that? Additionally FW is hysterically funny and provides lots of text in which to sink one's teeth, which should keep vira and her katrina occupied for a while.

Message edited by its author, Oct 6, 2009, 10:30pm.

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Oct 4, 2009, 5:24pm (top)Message 117: WilfGehlen

This may belong in the other post, but the vampiress Hella of M&M is literarily linked to the hellae of Lesbos. And we know how to deal with her kind. Hope that the cock crows, or find the tyrant's liste in our pants.

In other news, how are we dressing for All Hallow's Eve? I'm thinking of the dread pirate Roberts. Get used to disappointment.

ETA: my favorite vampiress

Message edited by its author, Oct 4, 2009, 5:35pm.

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Oct 4, 2009, 8:57pm (top)Message 118: EnriqueFreeque

Way to plan ahead, Wilf. Since I'm going to go see KISS in November when they storm L.A., I'll be Gene Simmons in full makeup and platforms.

Urania! May Finnegan's Fake sink deep into my "liste de septic tank" where it belongs, hallelujah.
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Oct 4, 2009, 10:25pm (top)Message 119: tomcatMurr

In full make up and platforms?????? OMG This I MUST See!!!
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Oct 4, 2009, 10:28pm (top)Message 120: EnriqueFreeque

I fully plan on posting the pic as my new logo - Nov. 25th (barring unforeseen circumstances).
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Oct 4, 2009, 10:31pm (top)Message 121: polutropos

I wanna be Gene Simmons, too!

Can I join you?

Yes, in full makeup and platforms.
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Oct 4, 2009, 10:53pm (top)Message 122: EnriqueFreeque

Nov. 25th, 3rd row, $140 for a ticket....be there!

And all you naysayers out there who might say (like me) why on earth, Enrique, would you want to go see a bunch of 60 year old has beens in veritable Halloween costumes?

First, if you have to ask why, you're too old.

Secondly, behind their makeup, they could just as easily be 25, as in circa their 1976 Alive Tour, in support of their classic Destroyer album - "Beth what can I do?" (um, not really, in my dreams). It's a spectacle, People! Rock theatre. Who cares if their music sucks? Not me! It's the fire and the blood and the explosions that matter.
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Oct 4, 2009, 11:00pm (top)Message 123: polutropos

I love Bowie, I love Alice Cooper, and above all I love Gene Simmons, for exactly the reasons The Fearless One mentions: the sheer spectacle.

I would LOVE to join you, Enrique, and I would even pay the $140; it is the trip from Toronto to LA that leaves me scratching my head.
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Oct 5, 2009, 4:25am (top)Message 124: urania1

>123 Andrushka??? Alice Cooper, Gene Simmons????? Why not Dvorak? Mahler? Prince? The B-52s?

>122 Glorious Dictator (long may you live). I'm not surprised although I really think you would enjoy dressing up as James Joyce. You could wear a corset underneath your shirt. So Joycean don't you think?

P.S. Andrushka, platforms are bad for you feet and posture.

P.P.S. Most Illustrious Dictator (long may you live), Finnegans Wake is great.

urania leaves the room sobbing furiously because no one will read Finnegans Wake with her
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Oct 5, 2009, 5:04am (top)Message 125: tomcatMurr

I'm more of a Mahler fan myself. I particular enjoy playing it at full volume on the stereo during a typhoon, as now. The neighbours cannot hear it as it's so noisy outside, and one can really let rip.

Haha!
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Oct 5, 2009, 7:59pm (top)Message 126: EnriqueFreeque

I am disgusted and dismayed over what's going on in another group: http://www.librarything.com/topic/74228

Le Peuple are being allowed to vote (in'that special!) for what they want to read. I ask, who cares what le peuple want to read! Le Peuple should just be happy they know how to read, and take the books they're given and be thankful we let them read in the first place.

First le peuple want to choose what they can read, makes me sick, then they want to choose where to live, yes, a terrible progression, then they want to choose where to work, choose whatever God to worship, whom they can marry, how late they can stay out w/their date, what clothes they can wear, what food to eat; this evil imperialistic choosing business (i.e., "voting") will just escalate out of control like a swine virus, and before you know it, le peuple will want to choose how many children they can have! - sheer wickedness! & selfishness!

Le peuple don't want to choose: this is Dicktator 101. After all, do sheep choose where to graze? No! A shepherd who knows best (like the hit TV show, Freeque Knows Best, directs them where to graze, and they are happy, just listen - "baaaa baaaa baaaa" - music to my ears, the sound of happiness: sheep without any choices. That's why we no vote in salon, because it's in your best interest not to vote, not to choose. Because, once you have choices, you never stop wanting to have choices, never stop wanting to choose, and it will drive you mad so many choices to make. Le Salon Litteraire cares enough about your mental well being to take away your choices.
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Oct 5, 2009, 8:23pm (top)Message 127: virapol

You so nice people.

Much, much thank you, Wilf (that a very nice name, too, my mama once date a nice boy name Wilf from Hitlerjugend), that video good but sad too. Some girls like my Katrina but Katrina of course much much bigger.

And Enrique you right. People no need vote. If you vote you think your opinion important. Your opinion no important. In my country under communist leaders, always election have 100% people vote. You no vote, you go jail. And all vote for one candidate. Only one candidate every office, everyone vote. That a GOOD election. Candidate win, 100%.

We maybe vote like that too. Enrique say "Everyone read Octopus book NOW." Everyone vote yes. GOOD election.
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Oct 5, 2009, 8:31pm (top)Message 128: EnriqueFreeque

virapol gets it! virapol is a fine, fine, exemplary citizen.
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Oct 5, 2009, 9:20pm (top)Message 129: urania1

I vote we read Swedish author Vilhelm Moberg's four-volume epic The Emigrants novels. Sweden, we want to read Swedish authors. We want to live in Sweden. We want a sound socialist democracy. We want cute houses. Get out the vote. Vote Sweden.
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Oct 5, 2009, 9:26pm (top)Message 130: WilfGehlen

Where did the sheep graze when left to their own devices in The Octopus? On the railroad track. What happened when the locomotive came by? Sheep may safely graze? No, no, no. Newton held sway, not The Good Shepherd. Shishkebob for dinner.
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Oct 5, 2009, 9:31pm (top)Message 131: urania1

Educate the sheep. Empower them.
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Oct 5, 2009, 9:35pm (top)Message 132: WilfGehlen

Eat them! Yum!
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Oct 5, 2009, 9:39pm (top)Message 133: urania1

Sheep to ubermenchen and and uberwenchen.

Yours truly,

urania uberwench

P.S. Vote Sweden!
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Oct 5, 2009, 10:06pm (top)Message 134: WilfGehlen

Not to appear disparaging while actually being disparaging, but has no one heard of H.P. Lovecraft in the lead up to All Hallow's Eve? What's up with that? Or, upon further investigation, why is it in the touchstones and not in the messages? Hmm? And no followup to the Night Watch comments? Really, what a letdown in the Day Watch movie and in the Twilight Watch book. May read the latest book (Last Watch) anyway, just because it promises to be last, but am holding out.

And where is this Sweden, anyway? At the end of the bridge from Denmark no doubt. Well, we have our bridge to nowhere, so I guess the Danes need one too.

Actually, I have a high regard for the Swedes and their Ig Nobel prize. This year's winner includes the inventor of the gas-mask bra, a Ukranian, just like Bulgakov, who got the idea after Chernobyl. She is quoted as saying a bra cup is the perfect size to fit over the mouth and nose and a bra is always at hand in case of an emergency. Either your own, or a good friend's. Would have been handy in Sydney in recent days.
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Oct 5, 2009, 10:11pm (top)Message 135: urania1

Not to appear disparaging while actually being disparaging ;-), but Wilf since when are all Swedes the Nobel Committee? Are we stereotyping here? Tsk tsk.

Vote Sweden!
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Oct 5, 2009, 10:12pm (top)Message 136: EnriqueFreeque

I like Abba.
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Oct 5, 2009, 10:13pm (top)Message 137: Mr.Durick

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scienc...
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Oct 5, 2009, 10:14pm (top)Message 138: EnriqueFreeque

I misspelled Abba. I don't know how to make by "b" backwards. And the name should've also been in caps: ABBA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REElUors1...
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Oct 5, 2009, 10:31pm (top)Message 139: WilfGehlen

I'm researching the backwards B, not there yet. Have found out how to do the backwards A, though. Will post that later with final results.

Meanwhile, read this blog to find that 'backwards B' is actually part of their name.
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Oct 5, 2009, 10:48pm (top)Message 140: EnriqueFreeque

Thank you for that Wilf! Has ABBA ever won a Nobel Prize to your knowledge?

Fernando is probably my second favorite song.
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Oct 5, 2009, 11:04pm (top)Message 141: WilfGehlen

No, but their blow up albums probably were the impetus for Alfred Nobel, the dynamite inventor, to create the awards, to salve his soul.

Sweden rocks!

I got the upside down B and the backwards R that they use in the slavic languages, but no backwards B yet.

I just checked their site, and they only have the backwards B in their images. Darn, I thought they would have enough clout to have their own B.
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Oct 6, 2009, 10:10am (top)Message 142: richardderus

Favorite AB"B"A tune: "I Do, I Do, I Do"

*sigh* youth
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Oct 6, 2009, 10:40am (top)Message 143: geneg

ABBA? You guys must be nuts! Oh, happy, happy, joy joy! This is a joke, right?
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Oct 6, 2009, 11:49am (top)Message 144: WilfGehlen

My favorite is when they slow down the tempo and sing "Red River Valley".
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Oct 6, 2009, 1:19pm (top)Message 145: EnriqueFreeque

Agreed, Wilf. Also, Waterloo kicks my butt everytime. And I like too how they dub all those voice overs at the beginning of Take A Chance on Me.

You don't like Abba, geneg? What's wrong wi'chu!?
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Oct 6, 2009, 1:32pm (top)Message 146: richardderus

How could ANYone forget his first kiss to an AB"B"A tune, geneg? The boy in question asked me to dance at a school dance, even!

I did, I did, I did...and what fun it was....
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Oct 6, 2009, 3:11pm (top)Message 147: geneg

Well, for starters my first kiss was twenty plus years before ABBA came on the scene. As I recall it was to the Champs' Tequila.

I like my music like I like my women, hot, fast and nasty. I'll take some Dylan, Beatles, Stones, VU, Airplane and Dead. Along with too many others to name. ABBA, or at least what I've heard of them was the seventies/eighties functional equivalent of the Ohio Express or the 1910 Fruit Gum Factory. Bubblegum we used to call it.

Music should foment revolutions (just the thing Plato was wary of) not provide muzak to the passing parade.

Message edited by its author, Oct 6, 2009, 3:13pm.

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Oct 6, 2009, 3:16pm (top)Message 148: richardderus

Oh, well, all is explained! You like *women*! Do your doctors have any theories about how this defect occurred?
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Oct 6, 2009, 3:54pm (top)Message 149: Makifat

I like my music like I like my women, hot, fast and nasty.

And how is mrs. geneg these days?
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Oct 6, 2009, 4:04pm (top)Message 150: geneg

They don't come any better!
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Oct 6, 2009, 4:14pm (top)Message 151: Makifat

I envy you. My first wife ran off with her tennis instructor.....love means nothing to her!
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Oct 6, 2009, 4:23pm (top)Message 152: aethercowboy

>151.

If you're talking tennis, I believe the term is "l'ouef."

EDIT:

AND THEN... I got your joke.

Message edited by its author, Oct 6, 2009, 4:24pm.

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Oct 6, 2009, 6:28pm (top)Message 153: geneg

I wish to offer my sincere apology for stomping on everyone's ABBA love-in. You guys were having so much fun! Please, if you can, continue. I promise not to mention them again. Nor will I criticize them to you all again. I suspect my feelings and attitudes toward ABBA come from having been present at the creation, some thirty years prior.

Please, ignore me, forgive me, and continue if you wish.

I'll tell you a little secret, I really like this song which is, of course, a most egregious example of the aforementioned "Bubble Gum". Please don't tell anyone over sixty I told you this or they'll take away my Rockabilly Founders Card.
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Oct 6, 2009, 6:50pm (top)Message 154: EnriqueFreeque

Do you like Bread, geneg?

"Baby I'm a want you; baby I'm a need you"?
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Oct 6, 2009, 7:04pm (top)Message 155: Makifat

153
Wasn't "Captain Sad and His Ship of Fools" the inspiration for "Sgt. Pepper"?

154
Larry Knectel (sp?) the keyboardist for Bread passed away recently. His obituary lists such early accomplishments that I wonder why he didn't slit his wrists working with David Gates.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obitua...

Message edited by its author, Oct 6, 2009, 7:06pm.

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Oct 6, 2009, 7:04pm (top)Message 156: Mr.Durick

Whatever happened to Mungo Jerry?

What were some of their other hits?

Robert
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Oct 6, 2009, 7:07pm (top)Message 157: Makifat

What were some of their other hits?

You're joking, right?
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Oct 6, 2009, 7:15pm (top)Message 158: polutropos

Even if the great Mr. Durick IS joking above, I still had not fully realized how many hits they had:

UK singles chart discography

* "In the Summertime" - 1970 - No. 1
* "Baby Jump" - 1971 - No. 1
* "Lady Rose" - 1971 - No. 5
* "You Don't Have to be in The Army To Fight in The War" - 1971 - No. 13
* "Open Up" - 1972 - No. 21
* "Alright Alright Alright" - 1973 - No. 3
* "Wild Love" - 1973 - No. 32
* "Long Legged Woman Dressed In Black" - 1974 - No. 13
* "Prospects" - 1985 - No. 35 (as 'Made in England')
* "In the Summertime '87" - 1987 - Number 1 (Indie Charts/ as 'Mungo Jerry & Brothers Grimm')
* "Support The Toon - It's Your Duty" (EP incl. 'Toon Army') - 1999 - No. 57

Pretty impressive. I loved "In the Summertime" way back when.
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Oct 6, 2009, 8:00pm (top)Message 159: theaelizabet

Mungo Jerry. Wow. Haven't thought about them since high school.
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Oct 7, 2009, 10:01am (top)Message 160: geneg

To my taste, and after all, my taste is all I have, Mungo Jerry's "In the Summertime" was a great song, I liked the structure of their sound. I, too, thought they were a one hit wonder.

Bread, not so much. I preferred Sugar Loaf to Bread but didn't really care for either. At that time my estimation of the music was inversely proportional to the number of horns a song sported.

Like I said, I'm a rock and roll purist and the attempts to popify rock, to me, were of the devil.

Oh, well, I guess I've always had an authoritarian streak in some areas. I've certainly had strong opinions all my life.
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Oct 7, 2009, 11:10am (top)Message 161: richardderus

>160 absent strong opinions, what earthly use would a site like LT be to you? Expressing a strong opinion is oxygen to this site's power users, as Tim referred to them in a post recently. It's that opinionated-ness that makes this place fun!

I guess my raised eyebrow (AB"B"A) didn't come through in my posts. It's true that a star of the basketball team kissed me to "I Do, I Do, I Do" at a dance, but it wasn't my first kiss just my first PUBLIC one, and the first time I at 6ft3in had to turn MY face up to be kissed. (Still a novelty, in fact.) And I cringe into a semi-fetal position when I hear ABBA songs.

For me, I like Billie Holiday's Fifties recordings, Sarah Vaughn, Ornette Coleman, Miles Davis, and on the lighter end Pat Metheny from the 80s.

Pop is pleasant enough for grocery store listening.

Message edited by its author, Oct 7, 2009, 11:11am.

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Oct 7, 2009, 12:14pm (top)Message 162: EnriqueFreeque

Do you guys like the Bee Gees?

"You should be dan-cinggggg, yeaaaaaahhhhh!"
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Oct 7, 2009, 12:38pm (top)Message 163: geneg

Sarah Vaughn's "Broken Hearted Melody" is one of my favorites. I don't think she cared for it, but I did (do). Billie Holliday is one of my favorite blues/jazz singers. I really like country music from the twenties through the sixties with a special emphasis on Bluegrass. I was fortunate enough to see Bill Monroe and the Bluegrass Boys at one of his last shows. He was opened by a local all girl bluegrass group that called themselves The Dixie Chicks. This was in a club with about fifty - seventy five other bluegrass devotees. The Dixie Chicks spent most of Bill's set making out in the shadows with their boyfriends. Reminds me of the time I saw the Allman Brothers in a small venue in Atlanta, The 12th Gate Coffeehouse.
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Oct 7, 2009, 12:48pm (top)Message 164: richardderus

Bluegrass is some wonderful stuff, though I confess I like Alison Krauss the best, and she's half-a-bubble off the pop/bluegrass plumb line.

"My Funny Valentine" a la Sarah is an eye-watering, goose-pimpling experience for me.

Dear Natalie! Go get 'im, Natsky! I loved that Bush dustup, and went out and bought six copies of the Dixie Chicks's CD when it happened.

Once upon a time, I saw Clifton Chenier perform live at The Third Coast in Austin. The King of Zydeco in person! It was a huge charge. My friends of the day were the kind of people who went to Antone's in Austin to hear real blues. It was a great time, the 80s, for good music in Austin. The Fabulous Thunderbirds were still the house band at the bar across from the UT campus, Hole in the Wall.

*sigh*
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Oct 7, 2009, 12:49pm (top)Message 165: richardderus

>162 EF dear lad, I think you have a "Night Fever" and need to "Slow Down" soon.
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Oct 7, 2009, 1:21pm (top)Message 166: RSHabroptilus

^5 Richard Derus! Ornette Coleman is the bee's knees! Having just read the scroll ed. of On the Road, I'm kinda gettin' that longing for the magic of jazz and bop, mmm yeahhh. Gotta get some Gillespie and Coltrane and Monk and Moondog and some Eddie Gale! Right on!

Has anyone given a listen to the tunes of Elvis Perkins? Abs. brilliant young musician that echoes a lot of the dirtier folk rock of the '60s & '70s. Comes from a family of celebrities, too!...altho they all seem to horrifically die, i.e., father Tony from AIDS and mother Berry Berenson on one of the planes 9/11/01.

While You Were Sleeping
Shampoo
All the Night W/o Love
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Oct 7, 2009, 1:56pm (top)Message 167: richardderus

Weirdo-boy Perkins, how very strange to hear of him here. Todd, you're a never-ending source of befuddlement.

Oh God, On the Road...ouch...please, please go read some Gregory Corso (Mindfield is a good starter) or Allen Ginsberg (Howl or Kaddish, for starters) to demystify the damn Beats. John Clellon Holmes for novels, not Kerouac! Go is a much better piece of Beat writing!
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Oct 7, 2009, 1:57pm (top)Message 168: aethercowboy

And if you're up for FURTHER mystifying the damn Beats: Move Under Ground.
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Oct 7, 2009, 2:04pm (top)Message 169: richardderus

Read Northern Gothic too! Mamatas is a really good writer.
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Oct 7, 2009, 2:19pm (top)Message 170: RSHabroptilus

I'm a fan of both Corso and Ginsberg. :} Holmes I've never gotten to. Over a 4+ year search I've never once come across Go. Never. I'll tell ya, I didn't care much for the original (first published v. of) On the Road when I read it in high school (and seriously folks, the scroll ed. is a LOT better...). I thought it was decent and respected it and hated all the characters; it wasn't until forcing myself to pick up Dharma Bums and I began working backwards from Kesey & the Merry Pranksters a bit later that I became hooked on their little group.

I am young, bro, and naive, and a big romantic: I'm s'posed to love the beats. I owe Kerouac a lot, even if he was a poser and whatever else one may call him: I've gone on numerous spontaneous adventures in the past few years. Looking at my friend one warm mornin' and saying "Let's cross the border and see a donkey show," hitchhiking to and all around Arizona back in '08 and meeting lots of great folks doin' it, carpooling to Minnesota and Wisconsin back in March, and that really big trip I took to Washington just a few short months ago where I got trapped in a landscaping job a few weeks and then hiked the Olympic Mtns. All of that: thx to Kerouac. & there's my interest in Buddhism to thnk him for...

He wrote pretty shitty poetry, tho. I'll never understand why his prose works as better poetry than his poetry....I've been pretty lucky so far, but I've heard a lot of his books come off as him just "going through the motions," basically imitating himself.

168: I've heard a bit about this Kerouac v. Cthulhu tale, that it's actually worth picking up. I even came close to getting it last week...
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Oct 7, 2009, 2:26pm (top)Message 171: aethercowboy

>170.

If you're not sure you wanna buy it, it IS in the creative commons. http://www.moveunderground.org/ will snag you a FREE and LEGAL pdf or HTML copy.
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Oct 7, 2009, 2:32pm (top)Message 172: Makifat

This message has been deleted by its author.

Oct 7, 2009, 2:55pm (top)Message 173: anna_in_pdx

167: So have you read the Perez Reverte Dumas Club? Is the character Corso a nod to the Beat writer? I hadn't heard of him before.
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Oct 7, 2009, 3:05pm (top)Message 174: richardderus

>173 no, never read Dumas Club so can't comment. So ignorant of anything he wrote beyond The Fencing Master.

>170 I am young, bro, and naive, and a big romantic is exactly my point! Get 'em while they're young is my mantra! Good writing has no age, and bad has a window of appreciation. You've already experienced Kerouac, so now seek out some bigger better fish!

Anything that sparks an interest in Buddhism is a net gain to the world, IMO.

Once upon a time, Ken Babbs used to come to my company's office (I worked at Thunder's Mouth Press in the 80s) to rail and holler. The company was publishing his book On the Bus about the Merry Pranksters. In my latest possible twenties, I looked on him as a sad old fart living off reflected glory. Now as old as he was then, I see that he was a sad old fart living off reflected glory, but so do we all.

Remind me to tell you my Beckett story some day.
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Oct 7, 2009, 7:15pm (top)Message 175: polutropos

Back to #118 - #124 on KISS

I wish I had been keeping up with their tour. LA I cannot do, of course, but I could have driven three hours to Oshawa if I had known and had another fellow-fan to go with me. It is tonight.

Image

From left: Ozzy Smith, 14, his father Dan Smith, 46, and Ozzy's friend James Felstead, 17. The kids took the day off school and dad took the day off work to revel in the thrill of KISS concert at Oshawa's GM Centre on Oct. 7, 2009.
CAROLA VYHnAK

Oshawa hasn't just been KISSed. The city has been seized in a lip-lock that's set it on fire.

Chilly winds couldn't cool the passion of KISS fans eagerly awaiting Wednesday night's concert by the rock group at the General Motors Centre.

"I am going to be the favourite mom in Oshawa tonight!" shrieked Debbie Craig as she scored three last-minute tickets at the box office.

All 5,600 tickets sold out within 10 minutes weeks ago but a block of 20 seats suddenly opened up this afternoon as the stage was being set up.

(Rats, rats, rats, the image won't copy for me. You will just have to imagine three fans made-up as KISS.)
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Oct 8, 2009, 12:40pm (top)Message 176: anna_in_pdx

Sorry to break into all the music discussions, but I read an article today about Orhan Pamuk and wondered if anyone would be interested in reading one of his books. Maybe My Name is Red or Snow?

I still want us to read I am a cat at some point.

I am now very much looking forward to Les Miserables. While The Octopus is definitely about an interesting period in history, and I am sure I won't regret having read it, its style is hard for me to get into.
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Oct 8, 2009, 1:01pm (top)Message 177: polutropos

Anna (176),

I am about to go on a Pamuk binge, I think. I have read another book dealing with Turkey and reviewed it for an upcoming issue of Belletrista, and have now moved Pamuk to the top of my list. Are you suggesting Pamuk as a group read for the Salon sometime soon? I am all for it.

And can you give us a link to the Pamuk article?
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Oct 8, 2009, 1:17pm (top)Message 178: anna_in_pdx

http://www.commongroundnews.org/article....

I get the Common Ground newsletter every week. It's usually very positive articles about people in the Middle East who are trying to do good things about the peace process. Sometimes it has cultural articles like this as well.
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Oct 8, 2009, 1:46pm (top)Message 179: urania1

I also like The Quarterly Conversation.
>177 I think My Name is Red is Pamuk's masterpiece. His new book The Museum of Innocence is scheduled to be out sometime this month.
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Oct 8, 2009, 2:11pm (top)Message 180: Makifat

178/179
Excellent links. Here's an essay by Pamuk from 2008:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22182
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Oct 8, 2009, 2:21pm (top)Message 181: anna_in_pdx

Thanks 179-180!

OK, my official requests for upcoming reads at the Salon aside from what's already decided on:

I am a cat
My Name is Red

thanks! Over and out.
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Oct 8, 2009, 2:50pm (top)Message 182: Medellia

I'd be interested to reread My Name is Red in a group setting. I loved Snow but didn't get on very well with My Name is Red, so I'd like to know if it was just a matter of taste or if I was missing something good in the latter.

(edited so that my touchstone won't point to Neal Stephenson)

Message edited by its author, Oct 8, 2009, 2:50pm.

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Oct 8, 2009, 9:28pm (top)Message 183: tomcatMurr

I'm game. I'd like to read his book about Istanbul a city I dream about going to.
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Oct 8, 2009, 10:27pm (top)Message 184: Macumbeira

Count me in for Anna's proposal.
I'll probably be in instanbul April 2010
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Oct 9, 2009, 1:23am (top)Message 185: Porius

Crime & Punishment in Istanbul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J09jwsW-Q...
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Oct 9, 2009, 10:28am (top)Message 186: geneg

I've read Snow and enjoyed it. I'd be up to participate in reading another of Pamuk's works.
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Oct 9, 2009, 1:42pm (top)Message 187: Macumbeira

185 LOL
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Oct 9, 2009, 4:21pm (top)Message 188: EnriqueFreeque

Well, there you have it; it's official: Le Salon Litteraire's non-tome-ic Feb, 2010 read will be . . . My Name is Red. Mac, I wanted to do April for you, but...there's just no way those of us reading Infinite Jest, beginning March, will be done by April.

Anybody(s) like to guide us through Orhan Pamuk's masterpiece?

Also, we need a really fabulous novella or short story collection we can nibble on for April.

Make that two fabulous novellas or short story collections to nibble on, one for January (as the behemoth Les Miz begins in Dec. and some of us may not have finished it by Jan.) and April.

Please, resuggest what you've already suggested, or post new suggestions. But do avoid non-despotic sounding rhetoric when making your requests please.
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Oct 9, 2009, 4:25pm (top)Message 189: richardderus

At 119pp, what about Dacia Maraini's memoir-ette, Bagheria? January for a book about Sicily, Persephone's homeland, seems a propos.
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Oct 9, 2009, 4:49pm (top)Message 190: theaelizabet

How about The Day of the Locust (129pp) or Miss Lonelyhearts (58 pp), both by Nathanael West?
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Oct 9, 2009, 5:23pm (top)Message 191: urania1

James wrote quite a few novellas - and short stories. Edith Wharton is also an excellent short story writer and has written a couple of novellas. Most are on PG. I could put together a list of the best Wharton. Ursule Molinaro's novellas are interesting. Her Fat Skeletons is hysterically funny and intellectually interesting.
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Oct 9, 2009, 5:35pm (top)Message 192: semckibbin

Of more recent writers, Banville's The Newton Letter is less than 100 pages. The style is terrific.

Gaddis' Agapē Agape is an interesting deathbed monologue and just a hair under 100 pages.

The Newton Letter
Agapē Agape

Message edited by its author, Oct 9, 2009, 5:37pm.

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Oct 9, 2009, 6:06pm (top)Message 193: Porius

SHAMELA, Fielding's spoofing of PAMELA, lots of intelligent sentimentality from Samuel Richardson. 50 pages or so.
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Oct 9, 2009, 11:12pm (top)Message 194: EnriqueFreeque

poor, does one need to have read Pamela in order to truly appreciate Shamela?

William Burroughs and Kathy Acker's names have yet appeared . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN7ZZYKQZ... (part I)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF2KOv8sA... (part II)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewnwl1e9d... (part III)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E4J_j8AC... (part IV-finis)

Message edited by its author, Oct 9, 2009, 11:28pm.

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Oct 9, 2009, 11:16pm (top)Message 195: Porius

Couldn't hurt. Though it really takes a trooper to get through S.R.
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Oct 24, 2009, 1:24pm (top)Message 196: EnriqueFreeque

Selections for the shorter reads of 2010 are now posted on the title page of Le Salon Litteraire. I did my best to include all of your superb suggestions. If some slipped through the cracks, I'm sorry; there's always 2011.

I've wanted to dig into some Jeanette Winterson & Kathy Acker for quite some time, having read very little (excerpts mostly) of their edgy work. I chose titles by them that seemed to my uninitiated eyes like good sounding titles, but perhaps there are those of you out there more familiar with Acker's and Winterson's work who could advise us on what perhaps would be better choices for group discussion? So, by all means, suggest away, and let us collectively, communally, communistically, if you will, reach a consensus.

Infidel 'Frique thanks you for your co-operation write down the names of all those who don't participate for future "reeducation" exercises in advance!
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Oct 24, 2009, 3:09pm (top)Message 197: richardderus

Winterson's best is her first: Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit is still just blindingly brilliant. Sexing the Cherry is great for a group read because it polarizes people like there's no tomorrow.

Never read any Kathy Acker that I can recall.

Where do I report for re-education?
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Oct 24, 2009, 5:19pm (top)Message 198: Medellia

#196/7: I agree that Oranges Are Not the Only fruit is a great novel, though I prefer Sexing the Cherry. I also agree that Sexing the Cherry would be polarizing. For that reason I think Oranges is a good idea--it's nice when the maximum number of folks come away actually liking a work.
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Oct 24, 2009, 11:55pm (top)Message 199: slickdpdx

I loved Sexing the Cherry. Its polarizing? I read that and The Passion. Wouldn't mind an excuse to read another by JW.
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Oct 27, 2009, 6:11pm (top)Message 200: EnriqueFreeque

Let's go with Winterson's "Oranges...", since so many sound amenable to that.

As for Acker's Blood and Guts in High School," I'm having second thoughts after perusing it. I'll take a peek at Empire of the Senseless and Pussy, King of the Pirates, and see if either would make an "appropriate" salon read. By "appropriate" I mean not wig or gross anybody out too much. A little's okay. Kathy Acker, to overstate the obvious, is quite shocking.
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Oct 27, 2009, 7:19pm (top)Message 201: slickdpdx

My humble advice is "Forget Kathy (H)Acker!" But who am I to stand in the way if enough people want to read her? I may even join in. However, it'll be a library book I'll be reading!
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Oct 30, 2009, 1:36pm (top)Message 202: semckibbin

I'm looking forward to the Proust read in Summer 2010. However.... for me, any reading that omits the last 300 pages of Temps retrouvé misses the big themes that Proust covers.

So my question to Medialla and urania is this. Is there a way we can read a groupleader-endorsed abridged version of the Recherche that does not exceed 1000 pages?

Just to start discussion I note that Shattuck suggested a reduced reading that only included Overture, Combray, Swann in Love, Place Names-The Place,The Grandmothers Death, The first 30 and last 30 pages of Sodome et Gomorrhe, the first 30 pages of La Prisonnière and then the 200 pages of the concert at the Verdurins, and the last 200 pages of Temps retrouvé.

Message edited by its author, Oct 30, 2009, 1:42pm.

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Oct 30, 2009, 2:40pm (top)Message 203: Medellia

The original plan was to read the whole thing, but 'Rique scaled it back. (The coward! ;) You're right, if you've only read the first volume or two, you certainly haven't "done Proust." But Shattuck's reduced reading plan makes me very sad. Too many great things cut out there. I know folks will sometimes do first & last volume only, but that option also strikes me as unattractive.

Urania? Whatcha think?

I have been planning on rereading the whole work, starting in June. If our Dear Leader consents, I'd be happy to keep threads going from Swann's Way to Le Temps retrouvé.
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Oct 30, 2009, 2:44pm (top)Message 204: theaelizabet

No pressure here, but I'd love to follow a group reading of the whole work.

Message edited by its author, Oct 30, 2009, 2:44pm.

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Oct 30, 2009, 2:53pm (top)Message 205: booksfallapart

Chalk me up as another who'd be interested in doing the whole thing. I have read the first two, and have been long enough out of Proust's freaky world to crave more.
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Oct 30, 2009, 2:55pm (top)Message 206: slickdpdx

I think additional threads for an ongoing optional conversation is a great idea.

Is it too early to start flogging reads for 2011? What about The Plague for a short read? I know Macu hates Camus but...

Message edited by its author, Oct 30, 2009, 2:56pm.

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Oct 30, 2009, 3:00pm (top)Message 207: zenomax

Medellia - the whole thing for me too!
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Oct 30, 2009, 4:23pm (top)Message 208: anna_in_pdx

206: I have not read The Plague though I am a french major. I loved The Stranger and I really was drawn to Camus of all the existentialists (didn't get into Sartre at all). I'm up for it if I survive until 2011. :)
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Oct 30, 2009, 4:26pm (top)Message 209: slickdpdx

The Plague really is the bomb, if I may mix my metaphors.
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Oct 30, 2009, 5:10pm (top)Message 210: Macumbeira

What me ? I have nothing against caca-mus, really nothing.. why you think so ?
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Oct 30, 2009, 5:21pm (top)Message 211: Macumbeira

Macucu hates cacamu
Mon cul cul loves cacamu
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Oct 30, 2009, 6:26pm (top)Message 212: fannyprice

If I enjoy the first volume, I was planning on (eventually) reading the whole thing, along with associated criticism and stuff. Making a companion "Proust Project" to my Shakespeare project - part of my plan to get myself educated.
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Oct 30, 2009, 6:27pm (top)Message 213: mihess

@203

I'd join in the fun. Half of the reason I joined this group was its reading Proust in June. I know I'd feel more encouraged to keep going if there was a group read.
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Oct 30, 2009, 6:55pm (top)Message 214: polutropos

OK,

let me throw out yet another option:

NOT just The Plague but ALL of Camus. The Notebooks are terrific, as is The Fall, and I do not need to sing praises of L'etranger. The posthumous works are well worth reading, Myth of Sisyphus, wow, I may have to do a read on my own if no one else wants to do it.

"Maman died today."

One of the truly great openings.
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Oct 30, 2009, 7:09pm (top)Message 215: slickdpdx

Maybe we should start a Camus group either inside or outside the Salon. Inside seems fine - isn't a Salon for discussions?

Disclosure: I am enough of a contrarian that - even though I've read the other novels (except the posthumous novel) AND the various collections of essays - I've never read The Stranger! I need to address that defecit pronto!
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Oct 30, 2009, 8:00pm (top)Message 216: EnriqueFreeque

Any Camus group will be kept strictly inside Le Salon! I will not hear of any Camus group starting outside Le Salon...ever! Inside I say no matter what the beloved Macucu-damia Nut has to say about it!

You speak inside v. outside and that makes 'Frique very angry!

When I was a leetle boy in Havana, Cuba, I have no choices inside or outside or outside or inside or up or down or what channel to watch! You make me sick inside or outside! There was ONE channel, and we watch it inside and it was the right channel to watch inside! - just like there is ONE SALON and we are all very happy!

We read all of Proust too! ALL OF IT!!! YES I'M SHOUTING. Not just SOME OF IT like some godawful abridged classic. 'Frique was in error to think the sandinistas salonistas could not read all of ISOLT. Si. For they will read ALL OF ISOLT and they will like it! We figure out a way to do it we do it and not worry about doing it but just do it like Nike or Mikey do it.
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Oct 30, 2009, 8:02pm (top)Message 217: richardderus

Looks like SOMEbody got the Cuban's Irish up....
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Oct 30, 2009, 8:16pm (top)Message 218: polutropos

Dictatorship GOOD,
democracy BAD.

Thank God for Orwell.
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Oct 30, 2009, 8:21pm (top)Message 219: tomcatMurr

>202 most ludicrous suggestion I ever heard! This suggestion is just simply heresy, sorry, but shocking heresy. I mean, let's just read the first 3 lines of every page why not and abridge it that way?

Don't you know that abridgements are completely banned in the salon? and quite rightly so.

Death to abridgements! Death to abridgers!

Oh great and beloved leader, how shall the heretic be punished?
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Oct 30, 2009, 8:40pm (top)Message 220: EnriqueFreeque

Message edited by its author, Oct 30, 2009, 8:53pm.

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Oct 30, 2009, 8:42pm (top)Message 221: slickdpdx

prosaic justice?
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Oct 30, 2009, 9:34pm (top)Message 222: semckibbin

219: Jesus.

Anyway, I am going headless for Halloween if that's any consolation. :)

I thought a carefully chosen abridged read of the Recherche would be less of a heresy than merely reading Du côte de chez Swann and STOPPING.

Moreover, I feel like it is an imposition, impolite, pushing toward sadism even, to say to someone, "Hey, let's spend the next 6 months reading this novel." I guess my suggestion is engendered in my belief that Temps retrouvé is terrific and I dont want to lose people on our way there.

Message edited by its author, Oct 30, 2009, 9:36pm.

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Oct 30, 2009, 9:44pm (top)Message 223: polutropos

...and in a very short time the Queen was in a furious passion, and went stamping about, and shouting `Off with his head!' or `Off with her head!' about once in a minute. ...

The Queen had only one way of settling all difficulties, great or small. `Off with his head!' she said, without even looking round.

`I'll fetch the executioner myself,' said the King eagerly, and he hurried off.

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, chapter VIII
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Oct 30, 2009, 9:50pm (top)Message 224: Medellia

#222 semckibbin: Moreover, I feel like it is an imposition, impolite, pushing toward sadism even, to say to someone, "Hey, let's spend the next 6 months reading this novel."

Well, gosh, it'd be all of those things if we were suggesting that people read, say, the collected works of Ayn Rand over 6 months. (Oh heavens I'm sounding like a Lit Snobber in here.) However, suggesting that people read all of the Recherche is actually one of the greatest favors you could ever do for them. :)

Message edited by its author, Oct 30, 2009, 9:50pm.

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Oct 30, 2009, 11:47pm (top)Message 225: tomcatMurr

*uncontrollable retching and heaving and dry vomiting*

Sorry everyone, the Mention of Ayn Rand always has that effect on me.
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Oct 30, 2009, 11:55pm (top)Message 226: theaelizabet

Viva la Recherche!!! (or something like that...)
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Oct 31, 2009, 12:39am (top)Message 227: Macumbeira

What is happening here ?

I am afraid this salon is going the same way as other revolutions :
Once we were a Salon of discussing intellectuals, then suddenly it was all proletarian shouting with our esteemed leader turned into a Dictator and now it is "la Terreur" !!

Haven't we seen this before ?

What's next ? Mass-executions ?

Marie- Antoinette !!!!! prepare the suitcases !!!!
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Oct 31, 2009, 12:41am (top)Message 228: Macumbeira

This message has been deleted by its author.

Oct 31, 2009, 12:42am (top)Message 229: Macumbeira

Can we read Proust now ?
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Oct 31, 2009, 12:44am (top)Message 230: Mr.Durick

Nope, we're all going to read Melville.

Robert
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Oct 31, 2009, 12:45am (top)Message 231: Macumbeira

what was it again ? Redburn ?
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Oct 31, 2009, 12:58am (top)Message 232: Mr.Durick

I think so, or maybe Clarel.

I haven't yet read the last volume of Remembrance of Things Past. I ought to do that before I reread the rest.

Robert
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Oct 31, 2009, 9:28am (top)Message 233: polutropos

Mass executions good!
La Terreur good!
Our esteemed Dictator good!

Marie-Antoinette bad!
Doubt bad!
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Oct 31, 2009, 12:11pm (top)Message 234: EnriqueFreeque

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOAl0enE7...
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Oct 31, 2009, 12:31pm (top)Message 235: EnriqueFreeque

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DizSNXX07...
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Oct 31, 2009, 12:47pm (top)Message 236: urania1

Yes, I agree - we should read in In Search of Lost Time in its entirety.

>232 We are reading Clarel for December. We shall probably die before we're done. But not to fear. We will all meet one another in Hell, where we can continue the discussion. I've heard that Hell has an excellent library.

To Camus lovers, I think Camus is one of the great writers, but could we possibly read something just a bit lighter?
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Oct 31, 2009, 12:57pm (top)Message 237: EnriqueFreeque

If you say so urania#1....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT2wKBkpU...
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Oct 31, 2009, 1:13pm (top)Message 238: polutropos

#236

There is something lighter than Camus??? Why, I am sure we have decided long ago, that Camus, alongside Kafka, was one of the Great Comic Geniuses.
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Oct 31, 2009, 1:44pm (top)Message 239: slickdpdx

I really don't think the Plague is a downer. Maybe its just me.
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Oct 31, 2009, 1:54pm (top)Message 240: zenomax

polutropos - spot on. slick - its not just you, there others of us willing to merge from the woodwork for such events as these.
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Oct 31, 2009, 2:08pm (top)Message 241: Porius

Even others who will put away our woodwerk for the nonce.
What is funny to some is wormwood to others.

Message edited by its author, Oct 31, 2009, 2:09pm.

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Oct 31, 2009, 2:24pm (top)Message 242: urania1

Yes, yes. I agree. Camus is one of the more hilarious geniuses of the 20th century, but I'm not in the mood for Camus - at least not in the next three years.
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Oct 31, 2009, 2:47pm (top)Message 243: EnriqueFreeque

I'm in the mood for Ira Levin!

For the love of God, kill the baby, Mia, before it's too late!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNG6ZSiIf...
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Oct 31, 2009, 3:05pm (top)Message 244: Porius

What about Polanski's TESS?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKVoQSb_j...
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Oct 31, 2009, 3:13pm (top)Message 245: EnriqueFreeque

help me Porius, i'm in the mood for Tess,
help me
i can't stop posting these links

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6zJGUUiG...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtXz3OlFw...
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Oct 31, 2009, 3:17pm (top)Message 246: Porius

If Klaus Kinski would have made a baby with Ingrid Bergman it would have been the spit and image of Nastassja Kinski. Though IB was over 50 when NK was born, so that settles that mystery - tho if any one could manage the affair it would be the exquisite Swede (her mother was German-Jewish). Has there been 2 more beautiful actresses on the screen? Thinking out loud.
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Oct 31, 2009, 3:21pm (top)Message 247: booksfallapart

I'm so glad the revolution is finally here, and all I have to do to do my part and keep our glorious leaders happy is read umptybillion pages of Proust and the longest epic poem in the English language. I shall read them in the bath, in the attitude of Marat.
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Oct 31, 2009, 3:26pm (top)Message 248: polutropos



Charlotte Corday, awaiting you, Martin.
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Oct 31, 2009, 11:21pm (top)Message 249: tomcatMurr

I agree about Ingrid Bergman. Ravishing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J07MoCdar...

The greatest movie ever made.
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Oct 31, 2009, 11:38pm (top)Message 250: Porius

Frank.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtwO2tKZm...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VJY97l0j...

was never asked to take a cab
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VhKbE_pf...

Message edited by its author, Oct 31, 2009, 11:47pm.

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Nov 1, 2009, 4:39am (top)Message 251: zenomax

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfIPdRNV7...
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Nov 1, 2009, 4:51am (top)Message 252: Macumbeira

Charlotte Corday was the good one

Marat was the Monster :

He was a member of the more radical Jacobin faction during the French Revolution, helping to launch the Reign of Terror. He advocated doing away with the monarchy and raged against more moderate revolutionary leaders. In July 1790 he wrote "Five or six hundred heads cut off would have assured your repose, freedom and happiness. A false humanity has held your arms and suspended your blows; because of this millions of your brothers will lose their lives". He approved of the September 1792 massacres of jailed "enemies of the Revolution" and established the "Committee of Surveillance" whose role was to rout out antirevolutionaries. Marat composed the death lists from which the innocent and the guilty alike were executed.

Simon Schama on David's painting of Marat ( hanging here in the brussels Museum of Art ) :

I'm not sure how I feel about this painting, except deeply conflicted. You can't doubt that it's a solid gold masterpiece, but that's to separate it from the appalling moment of its creation, the French Revolution. This is Jean-Paul Marat, the most paranoid of the Revolution's fanatics, exhaling his very last breath. He's been assassinated in his bath. But for David, Marat isn't a monster, he's a saint. This is martyrdom, David's manifesto of revolutionary virtue."

That is the dangerous thing with these romantic revolutionary notions, you tend to forget that they are bloodthirsty criminals

Message edited by its author, Nov 1, 2009, 5:29am.

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Nov 1, 2009, 5:11am (top)Message 253: Macumbeira

( from wiki )

At her trial, Charlotte Corday testified that she had carried out the assassination alone, saying "I killed one man to save 100,000." It was likely a reference to Maximilien Robespierre's words before the execution of King Louis XVI. On 17 July 1793, four days after Marat was killed, Charlotte Corday was executed under the guillotine. After her decapitation, a man named Legros lifted her head from the basket and slapped it on the cheek.5 Witnesses report an expression of "unequivocal indignation" on her face when her cheek was slapped. This slap was considered unacceptable and Legros was imprisoned for three months because of his outburst6.

Message edited by its author, Nov 1, 2009, 5:30am.

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Nov 1, 2009, 5:47am (top)Message 254: tomcatMurr

Marat - along with Robespierre - was one of the great enemies of humanity. Charlotte Corday was a heroine and a political martryr.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzL6-yyQK...

Message edited by its author, Nov 1, 2009, 5:47am.

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Nov 1, 2009, 11:48am (top)Message 255: EnriqueFreeque

Mac, tomecat,

what texts are best for acquiring all this French Revolutionary knowledge of yours. I should have acquired some in school but that knowledge is long gone. I have Edmund Burke's book on the revolution and Thomas Carlyle's classic, but nothing from the French perspective of what occurred. Recommendations or links please....
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Nov 1, 2009, 11:54am (top)Message 256: Macumbeira

Jules michelet Histoire de la revolution Française

didn't Schama write anything lately about it ?
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Nov 1, 2009, 11:58am (top)Message 257: slickdpdx

Check out Booker winner Hilary Mantel's a place of greater safety for a great fictional account!
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Nov 1, 2009, 11:59am (top)Message 258: Macumbeira

Voila ... that is why I love this Salon ! Thanks slick !
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Nov 1, 2009, 12:08pm (top)Message 259: slickdpdx

not french tho :(
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Nov 1, 2009, 12:43pm (top)Message 260: Porius

110

Alas, 'tis true I have gone here and there,
And made myself a motley to the view,
Gored mine own thoughts, sold cheap what is most dear,
Made old offences of affections new.
Most true it is that I have looked on truth
Askance and strangely; but, by all above,
These blenches gave my heart another youth,
And worse essays proved thee my best of love.
Now all is done, have what shall have no end:
Mine appetite I never more will grind
On newer proof, to try an older friend,
A god in love, to whom I am confined.
Then give me welcome, next my heaven the best,
Even to thy pure and most loving breast.

Old Wm. was at home nowhere and was at home everywhere. The 'blenches' would suffice for the moment. Though they were for mere 'gleemen' and he was a Poet.
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Nov 1, 2009, 12:54pm (top)Message 261: slickdpdx

This message has been deleted by its author.

Nov 1, 2009, 12:54pm (top)Message 262: slickdpdx

How about The Gods Will Have Blood by Anatole France of Thaïs fame?

Message edited by its author, Nov 1, 2009, 12:56pm.

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Nov 1, 2009, 1:40pm (top)Message 263: geneg

I enjoyed Sans Culottes on the subject of the terror.
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Nov 1, 2009, 1:51pm (top)Message 264: polutropos

French Revolution by Furet I think is good, even though it has been a long time since I read it.

Message edited by its author, Nov 1, 2009, 1:53pm.

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Nov 1, 2009, 1:59pm (top)Message 265: urania1

I not feeling up to the guillotine either. What about The Age of Innocence or Custom of the Country (which I would rename Story of a "Lady" Futures' Trader. If not Wharton, then
Woman in the Wall by Julia O'Faolain.
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Nov 1, 2009, 2:06pm (top)Message 266: EnriqueFreeque

Wonderful suggestions all! Thank you!
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Nov 1, 2009, 7:58pm (top)Message 267: Porius

THE EARTH WILL SHAKE
THE WIDOW'S SON

both by Robert Anton Wilson
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Nov 1, 2009, 8:21pm (top)Message 268: tomcatMurr

in addition to the titles already mentioned I would add:

Citizens by Schama
Days of the Revolution by Christopher Hibbert

These are probably the best introductions to the Revolution in English. From the French perspective, two standard works:

The Coming of the French Revolution by Georges Lefebvre
The French revolution from it's origins to 1793 by Georges Lefebvre

I also thoroughly recommend Antonia Fraser's brilliant biography of Marie Antoinette The Journey.

For fictional accounts there's A Tale of Two Cities of course, and the following by Baroness Orczy:

The Scarlett Pimpernel
The Elusive Pimpernel
The League of the Scarlet Pimpernel
I will repay

Also, George Buchner's Danton's Death gives a wider European perspective on it, and there is a brilliant movie directed by the great Polish director Andrjez Wajda Danton with Gerard Depardieu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeUDuispx...

Vive la Revolution!

Message edited by its author, Nov 1, 2009, 8:23pm.

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Nov 1, 2009, 8:43pm (top)Message 269: EnriqueFreeque

tomecat,

I saw the Christopher Hibbert book at my local bookseller this afternoon. Held it in my hand. Instead, though, I went with The Ancien Regime and the Revolution. I wanted a French perspective w/out any possible (theoretically possible) historical revisionism.

Did I choose wisely, O Salon, or was I fool?
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Nov 1, 2009, 8:58pm (top)Message 270: tomcatMurr

I'm not sure what you mean by revisionism in this case, Enrique. Hibbert's book is an excellent introduction, this is what happened and why kind of stuff, a good starting point for more theoretical study. Hibbert is an excellent writer and really brings things alive.

The de Tocqueville looks more politically theoretical. I'm sure it will be excellent as well.

Try to get Lefebvre or Michelet for a standard French view.
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Nov 1, 2009, 9:00pm (top)Message 271: tomcatMurr

btw I hope you are pronouncing my name to rhyme with 'home cache'.
'cat' should be 'cache' as in mastication.
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Nov 1, 2009, 9:04pm (top)Message 272: EnriqueFreeque

oh no I didn't mean revisionism regarding any specific writer suggested; I'm just most curious to hear what writers who were there or there only a generation removed had to say about the events.
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Nov 1, 2009, 9:34pm (top)Message 273: tomcatMurr

History of the Girondins by Lamartine. How could I forget Lamartine...
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Nov 1, 2009, 9:49pm (top)Message 274: slickdpdx

I think the naughty hottie would have preferred the Sans Culottes.
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Nov 1, 2009, 11:18pm (top)Message 275: rolandperkins

To tomcatMurr:

Forgetting Lamartine is EASY! Iʻve been doing it for years, decades. Strange, since Iʻm one of those few who likes both politicians and poets, and Lamartine was both.

You might call him a long term TBR, even to be owned, with me. So, my (admittedly thin) collection of French poets includes Prevert, Verlaine, (a little)Villon, Corneille, Eluard, and Chanson de Roland. (No Pierre Emmanuel in French; only a few translations from him in my Sense of Order.
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Nov 2, 2009, 1:01am (top)Message 276: Porius

List our peerless leader with no lists, see him in all his majesty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgSRBKnkU...

The best actor from the neck up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtuoNCfbn...

Message edited by its author, Nov 2, 2009, 1:05am.

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Nov 2, 2009, 1:17am (top)Message 277: Macumbeira

274 LOL

She did make an impression on all of us, didnt she not ?
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Nov 2, 2009, 2:10am (top)Message 278: EnriqueFreeque

I hope I won't get red-flagged for saying this, but I always thought the naughty hottie was a narcissistic bi$ch.
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Nov 2, 2009, 2:13am (top)Message 279: Macumbeira

where did I hid that flag, that whip that gun ?
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Nov 2, 2009, 5:26am (top)Message 280: tomcatMurr

To Mr R Perkins,

Oh ! je voudrais tant que tu te souviennes
Des jours heureux où nous étions amis.
En ce temps-là la vie était plus belle,
Et le soleil plus brûlant qu'aujourd'hui.
Les feuilles mortes se ramassent à la pelle.
Tu vois, je n'ai pas oublié...
Les feuilles mortes se ramassent à la pelle,
Les souvenirs et les regrets aussi
Et le vent du nord les emporte
Dans la nuit froide de l'oubli.
Tu vois, je n'ai pas oublié
La chanson que tu me chantais.

C'est une chanson qui nous ressemble.
Toi, tu m'aimais et je t'aimais
Et nous vivions tous deux ensemble,
Toi qui m'aimais, moi qui t'aimais.
Mais la vie sépare ceux qui s'aiment,
Tout doucement, sans faire de bruit
Et la mer efface sur le sable
Les pas des amants désunis.

Les feuilles mortes se ramassent à la pelle,
Les souvenirs et les regrets aussi
Mais mon amour silencieux et fidèle
Sourit toujours et remercie la vie.
Je t'aimais tant, tu étais si jolie.
Comment veux-tu que je t'oublie ?
En ce temps-là, la vie était plus belle
Et le soleil plus brûlant qu'aujourd'hui.
Tu étais ma plus douce amie
Mais je n'ai que faire des regrets
Et la chanson que tu chantais,
Toujours, toujours je l'entendrai !

Les Feuilles Mortes by Jacques Prevert

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOsVVeojM...

*sigh*my youth...

Do you know Ronsard?
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Nov 2, 2009, 6:09am (top)Message 281: Macumbeira

Ah ( sigh ) Prevert

I had to learn Ronsard " La rose" by heart when I was young

Message edited by its author, Nov 2, 2009, 6:17am.

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Nov 4, 2009, 1:01am (top)Message 282: ChocolateMuse

Randomly interrupting to say that the seasonal labelling of the four Tome Reads of 2010 is discriminating to Southern Hemisphere Dwellers. Les Mis is going to be my SUMMER read, thanks very much. >:(
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Nov 4, 2009, 1:19am (top)Message 283: EnriqueFreeque

**am kicking myself**

I am so Northern Hemispheric-centric!

Promise I'll edit the title page so our Australian, New Zealand, South African, and South American Salonistas don't feel so discriminated against.
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Nov 4, 2009, 6:27am (top)Message 284: A_musing

You could use a religious calendar.... or maybe a different religious calendar for each season.
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Nov 4, 2009, 10:14am (top)Message 285: urania1

Personally, I think we should have an astrologer do a horoscope to determine the most auspicious dates for reading each work. I deplore reading inauspiciously although I believe in reading audaciously. Someone needs to track down that errant cat Murrushka. He will know where to find a good astrologer.
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Nov 4, 2009, 11:32am (top)Message 286: richardderus

I dare to interrupt the frivolities, I mean festivities, of the August Salonistas of all Seasonal Persuasions, with the following humble request:

There are a lot of active posters in this thread, so I thought I'd try to get support going for an idea I posted in the "Recommend Site Improvements" forum (thread is http://www.librarything.com/topic/76354 ). Here's the post:

"I post in a lot of groups, by my standards, and sometimes I want to go back to threads I've started in different groups. Presently I have squads of stuff starred, so that search is tedious; I won't even go into the size of the "Your Posts" choice.

Would it be a royal pain to introduce a "Threads You've Started" choice in the "Your World" bar? It would make my personal life easier, and I can imagine that of others as well."

If it sounds like a good idea to you, please go over there and post a response. It makes the request more popular, and so more likely to be granted.

Message edited by its author, Nov 4, 2009, 11:47am.

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Nov 4, 2009, 11:44am (top)Message 287: urania1

>286,

I tried, but all I got was a blank page. Conspiracy? Paranoia? Or both? I will try again. Perhaps I will be under Tim's radar then.
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Nov 4, 2009, 11:48am (top)Message 288: richardderus

No, it was my fault, I bobbled the link. It's fixed now.
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Nov 4, 2009, 5:01pm (top)Message 289: A_musing

I just picked up Ferdydurke, something I've been meaning to read for ages. If there would be others interested in adding it to the list sometime in 2011, I can put it in the seventh circle of TBR, a place I don't expect to get to until then, otherwise, I'll likely place it in a closer circle.

Message edited by its author, Nov 4, 2009, 5:02pm.

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Nov 4, 2009, 5:04pm (top)Message 290: slickdpdx

No kidding I woke up this morning wanting to suggest Ferdyduke but figured I'd already played my hand out with The Plague.
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Nov 4, 2009, 5:06pm (top)Message 291: A_musing

Yes, I've probably overplayed my hand most severely with Clarel already, but I'm still nudging Ferdy toward the 7th circle.

Tx!
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Nov 4, 2009, 5:21pm (top)Message 292: geneg

You guys should just be thankful you didn't recommend The Octopus.
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Nov 4, 2009, 5:30pm (top)Message 293: slickdpdx

I am!

http://www.librarything.com/topic/76211#...
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Nov 4, 2009, 11:31pm (top)Message 294: urania1

>289,

How strange. Ferdydurke has been on my wishlist for sometime. Vote Ferdy! What about some real poetry (not this Clarel thing, which I am sure will cause a misery in me back)? Les Fleurs du Mal anybody? Parallel edition? You'll get great poetry and improve your French as well.
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Nov 4, 2009, 11:41pm (top)Message 295: tomcatMurr

hah! I have been reading that this week, in a parallel edition, and also in this edition by a bunch of different translators.

Baudelaire in English
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Nov 4, 2009, 11:50pm (top)Message 296: urania1

What happened to the list? It has totally changed since this morning. I love The Dick, I've taught The Dick, I've convinced hundreds of unresponsive students that The Dick is good. I have reread The Dick this year. But, I will be suffering miserably through Clarel and Hugo in December (as if December weren't awful enough as it is). Ergo, I refuse to read The Dick in 2010. I will go to the gallows first. I may do something desperate.

Message edited by its author, Nov 4, 2009, 11:56pm.

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Nov 4, 2009, 11:54pm (top)Message 297: urania1

The current list covers old familiar territory. We need to think outside the box. With the fox of course.
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Nov 4, 2009, 11:55pm (top)Message 298: A_musing

It's on for a short read - is this the classics comics version?! I read Moby about once a decade. But I did just pick up Pierre.

Always up for a bit of poetry.
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Nov 5, 2009, 12:00am (top)Message 299: urania1

>298 No Pierre: or, The Ambiguities. If you wish to form a band called Pierre and The Ambiquities, a band specializing in off-key twelve tone schemes, I'm with you. BUT NO MORE MELVILLE. You've bamboozled us enough.
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Nov 5, 2009, 12:06am (top)Message 300: polutropos

Les Fleurs du Mal parallel edition is the best suggestion I have heard since someone smart proposed the complete works of Camus.

Yes to FduM!
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Nov 5, 2009, 12:09am (top)Message 301: polutropos

What THE!

I just wrote a message, was told it will appear in a moment and it is GONE!

I have lost my Salon Membership, I think.

Enriqueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I have been kidnapped!
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Nov 5, 2009, 12:18am (top)Message 302: urania1

>301,

Do I have to come rescue you again? If you would just quit reading Camus like I told you too, none of this would happen.
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Nov 5, 2009, 12:21am (top)Message 303: urania1

>301 Andrushka,

P.S. Tell your kidnappers it is well past your bedtime; therefore, they need to send you home.
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Nov 5, 2009, 12:27am (top)Message 304: EnriqueFreeque

You should never write anything down which can be confiscated and summarily used against you, polutropos. The censors obviously didn't like your post, I fear. You may need to go underground for awhile, or, um, assume a "different identity" until the coast is clear.

The censors are on high alert at the moment - and they caught you having an opinion (I'm not kidding) so do be careful, and try being neutral next time, and if someone knocks on your door, jump out the window - fast.
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Nov 5, 2009, 1:05am (top)Message 305: Porius

There maybe a song writer as good but none better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtiIOMNOR...
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Nov 5, 2009, 9:33am (top)Message 306: A_musing

> I won't suggest Pierre, since I'm pushing Ferdydurke anyways right now, but I will offer you instead Melville's "Fragments of a Lost Gnostic Poem of the 12th Century"

****

Found a family, build a state,
The pledged event is still the same;
Matter in end will never abate
His ancient brutal claim.

****

Indolence is heaven's ally here,
And energy the child of hell:
The Good Man pouring from his pitcher clear
But brims the poisoned well.
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Nov 5, 2009, 11:21am (top)Message 307: anna_in_pdx

An enthusiastic YES to Fleurs du Mal! One of my favorite poetry books EVER.
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Nov 5, 2009, 11:33am (top)Message 308: virapol

I only a poor Czech girl, sad and lonely in cold cold Canada.

But back in Liberec with my Friend Katrina, we read much poetry, and Katrina explain to me.

I also say yes read Beaudelaire, in two language, side by side. I improve English, I improve French.

Thank you.
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Nov 5, 2009, 1:49pm (top)Message 309: anna_in_pdx

306: Melville was kind of a downer, wasn't he? Those are beautiful.
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Nov 5, 2009, 3:19pm (top)Message 310: rolandperkins

To anna in pdx (#309):

Very much a downer in his The Confidence Man, and in parts of Moby Dick and Mardi. Israel Potter is more light-hearted, but not as interesting. I havenʻt read his Polynesian, semi-autobiographical ones -- Typee, for example, ,nor his Whitejacket. (Mardi is more an imaginary Polynesia which represents the whole world; it therefore even has a small Polynesia of its own.)

The Confidence Man is particularly depressing to a religionist, which I am (in fact I as a practicing Catholic at the time of reading it.

It has been argued about who is represented by the title character of The Confidence Man}; Christ, or the Devil? Iʻm inclined to think the latter, but Iʻm not sure that Melville himself had made up his mind on that.
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Nov 5, 2009, 8:17pm (top)Message 311: A_musing

Melville isn't always just a downer. He seems to have been happiest, however, lost among the "savages" in Polynesia contemplating their advantages over "Christian" civilization. Or in the freedom of the open sea. Or thinking about a future better than the present (for example, in "Formerly a Slave" - "Her children's children they shall know / the good withheld form her; / And so her reverie takes prophetic cheer").

Not so happy in his own time and place.

Message edited by its author, Nov 5, 2009, 8:18pm.

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Nov 6, 2009, 4:27pm (top)Message 312: Porius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RmmmbIxi...
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Nov 14, 2009, 3:58pm (top)Message 313: nannybebette

NO MELVILLE!~! HE BITES!~! HE SUCKS BIG TIME!~!~! HE BLOWS GOATS!~!~! BIG GREEN ONES!~!~! WE DO NOT LIKE HERMAN MELVILLE!~! WE DO NOT WISH TO READ HERMAN MELVILLE!~!
and that's all I have to say about that.
belva
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Nov 15, 2009, 12:48am (top)Message 314: booksfallapart

I like Melville. I have also heard the goat-blowing thing, though.
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Nov 15, 2009, 1:08am (top)Message 315: semckibbin

314 > Yeah, I saw it on youtube
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Nov 15, 2009, 1:15am (top)Message 316: EnriqueFreeque

I saw it on youtube

Link please. Too lazy to search myself. Boy, cold night tonight ain't in, Sem, in the Inland Empire? Low 40s. Brrrrrrr.
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Nov 15, 2009, 1:45am (top)Message 317: EnriqueFreeque

Hey, semckibbin,

I'm sure you've seen or heard of this book, no?: http://www.librarything.com/work/4980338...

I've seen it forever at Borders for 20 bucks but found it today at my local thrift store for 99 cents.

Juan Felipe Herrera, out of UC Riverside, blurbs it on the front cover: "A mesmerizing, visionary collection. A California tour de force."

Message edited by its author, Nov 15, 2009, 1:45am.

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Nov 15, 2009, 2:02am (top)Message 318: semckibbin

317> Hey, right backatcha, Freeque.

It is cold enough to turn on the heater, but I aint complaining.

No, never saw that book. I have a history of Riverside at work, I think. It is little better than Huell Howser. (What's that? A rock?! That's amazing!!)
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Touchstone works

Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes
Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens
You Bright & Risen Angels by William Vollmann
The Claudine Novels by Colette
The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky
Moby Dick; or, The Whale by Herman Melville
Swann's Way by Marcel Proust
The Crying of Lot 49 by Thomas Pynchon
A Passage to India by E. M. Forster
Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace
Sense and Sensibility by Jane Austen
Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov
Madame Bovary by Gustave Flaubert
Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen
Persuasion by Jane Austen
Emma by Jane Austen
Notes from Underground by Fyodor Dostoevsky
Cloud atlas by David Mitchell
The Octopus: A Story of California by Frank Norris
All the King's Men by Robert Penn Warren
Elmer Gantry by Sinclair Lewis
Typee by Herman Melville
White Jacket by Herman Melville
McTeague by Frank Norris
The Golden Bowl by Henry James
Martin Eden by Jack London
Billy Budd and Other Stories by Herman Melville
The Temptation of Saint Anthony by Gustave Flaubert
Faust by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
The Man Without Qualities by Robert Musil
Soulstorm by Clarice Lispector
The House of Mirth by Edith Wharton
The Age of Innocence by Edith Wharton
Mansfield Park by Jane Austen
Bend Sinister by Vladimir Nabokov
The Sot-Weed Factor by John Barth
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Portrait of a Lady by Henry James
Middlemarch by George Eliot
Pale Fire by Vladimir Nabokov
Northanger Abbey by Jane Austen
Little House on the Prairie by Laura Ingalls Wilder
Mighty Stonewall by Frank E. Vandiver
Hour of the Octopus by Joel Rosenberg
Vanity Fair by William Makepeace Thackeray
Wives and Daughters by Elizabeth Gaskell
The Custom of the Country by Edith Wharton
The Bostonians by Henry James
The Four-Gated City (The Children of Violence, Book 5) by Doris Lessing
Les Misérables by Victor Hugo
The Hour of the Star by Clarice Lispector
The Silent Cry by Anne Perry
The Tale of Genji by Murasaki Shikibu
Ulysses by James Joyce
The Life and Opinions of the Tomcat Murr together with a fragmentary… by E. T. A. Hoffmann
The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov
When You Are Engulfed in Flames by David Sedaris
I Am a Cat by Natsume Sōseki
Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
Gargantua and Pantagruel by François Rabelais
Doctor Faustus by Thomas Mann
The Radetzky March by Joseph Roth
The White Castle: A Novel by Orhan Pamuk
My Name Is Red by Orhan Pamuk
The Metamorphosis (Bantam Classics) by Franz Kafka
Finnegans Wake by James Joyce
The Emigrants by Vilhelm Moberg
Go: A Novel by John Clellon Holmes
Kaddish and Other Poems: 1958-1960 (City Lights Pocket Poets Series) by Allen Ginsberg
Howl by Allen Ginsberg
Mindfield: New & Selected Poems by Gregory Corso
On the Road by Jack Kerouac
Move Under Ground by Nick Mamatas
Northern Gothic by Nick Mamatas
The Dharma Bums by Jack Kerouac
The Club Dumas by Arturo Pérez-Reverte
The Fencing Master by Arturo Pérez-Reverte
On the Bus: The Complete Guide to the Legendary Trip of Ken Kesey and… by Paul Perry
Snow by Orhan Pamuk
The Museum of Innocence by Orhan Pamuk
Bagheria by Dacia Maraini
Miss Lonelyhearts & the Day of the Locust by Nathanael West
Fat Skeletons by Ursule Molinaro
Agape Agape by William Gaddis
The Newton Letter by John Banville
Pamela: Or Virtue Rewarded by Samuel Richardson
Joseph Andrews and Shamela by Henry Fielding
Oranges are not the only fruit by Jeanette Winterson
Sexing the Cherry by Jeanette Winterson
Pussy, King of the Pirates by Kathy Acker
Empire of the Senseless by Kathy Acker
Blood and Guts in High School by Kathy Acker
The Plague by Albert Camus
Notebooks 1935-1951 by Albert Camus
The Fall by Albert Camus
The Stranger by Albert Camus
The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus
In Search of Lost Time by Marcel Proust
Clarel: A Poem and Pilgrimage in the Holy Land by Herman Melville
Star Trek 5 by James Blish
Chromosome 6 by Robin Cook
A Place of Greater Safety by Hilary Mantel
The Gods Will Have Blood by Anatole France
The Sans-Culottes by Albert Soboul
Dantons Tod by Georg Büchner
I Will Repay by Baroness Orczy
The League of the Scarlet Pimpernel by Emmuska Orczy, Baroness Orczy
The Elusive Pimpernel by Baroness Orczy
Marie Antoinette: The Journey by Antonia Fraser
The French Revolution From It's Origins to 1793 by Georges Lefebre
The Coming of the French Revolution by Georges Lefebvre
The Days of the French Revolution by Christopher Hibbert
Citizens by Simon Schama
The Old Regime and the French Revolution by Alexis de Tocqueville
Histoire des Girondins by Alphonse de Lamartine
The Sense of Order: A Study in the Psychology of Decorative Art (The… by E.H. Gombrich
Ferdydurke by Witold Gombrowicz
The Flowers of Evil by Charles Baudelaire
Baudelaire in English (Poets in Translation, Penguin) by Charles Baudelaire
Pierre: or, The Ambiguities by Herman Melville
Redburn, Whitejacket, Moby Dick by Herman Melville
Israel Potter: His Fifty Years of Exile, Volume Eight (Melville) by Herman Melville
Coldwater by Mardi McConnochie
Confessions of Felix Krull, Confidence Man: The Early Years by Thomas Mann

Touchstone authors

Kathy Acker
Jane Austen
John Banville
John Barth
Charles Baudelaire
Georg Büchner
James Blish
Mikhail Bulgakov
burrough. william s
Albert Camus
Miguel de Cervantes
Colette
Robin Cook
Gregory Corso
Charles Dickens
Fyodor Dostoevsky
George Eliot
Henry Fielding
Gustave Flaubert
E. M. Forster
Anatole France
Antonia Fraser
William Gaddis
Elizabeth Gaskell
Georges Lefebre
Allen Ginsberg
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
E.H. Gombrich
Witold Gombrowicz
Joseph Heller
Christopher Hibbert
E. T. A. Hoffmann
John Clellon Holmes
Victor Hugo
Henry James
James Joyce
Franz Kafka
Jack Kerouac
Alphonse de Lamartine
Georges Lefebvre
Doris Lessing
Ira Levin
Sinclair Lewis
Clarice Lispector
Jack London
Nick Mamatas
Thomas Mann
Hilary Mantel
Dacia Maraini
Mardi McConnochie
Melville
Herman Melville
Yukio Mishima
David Mitchell
Vilhelm Moberg
Ursule Molinaro
Robert Musil
Vladimir Nabokov
Natsume Sōseki
Frank Norris
Kenzaburo Oe
Baroness Orczy
Emmuska Orczy, Baroness Orczy
Orhan Pamuk
Arturo Pérez-Reverte
Anne Perry
Paul Perry
Marcel Proust
Thomas Pynchon
François Rabelais
Samuel Richardson
Joel Rosenberg
Joseph Roth
Simon Schama
David Sedaris
Murasaki Shikibu
Sigrid Unset
Albert Soboul
William Makepeace Thackeray
Alexis de Tocqueville
Leo Tolstoy
Frank E. Vandiver
William Vollmann
David Foster Wallace
Robert Penn Warren
Nathanael West
Edith Wharton
Laura Ingalls Wilder
Jeanette Winterson
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