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same name?

Hall of Servants

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1liselle40
Feb 26, 2007, 1:12pm Top

reading through all of these, i've noticed quite a few references in Randland to names that are here. i've recently come across the fact that King Arthur's father was Uther Pendragon. meaning that King arthur's last name would be Pendragon, which looks to be quite a bit like Artur Pendraeg. it doesn't seem possible that this is a coincedence. also, at the end of tGH, Rand notices that the heroes have names from our world. this might mean nothing, and it might be unimportant, but i thought that it was interesting, and i kinda wanted to know what the rest of you thought on this.

2doshiamit
Feb 28, 2007, 7:16am Top

i didnt even know about Pendragon being Arhurs last name, but I still had thought the Hawkwing was at least named for King Arthur him. There are a few others example of that sort, like Thom being similar in look and name to Merlin the magician. And I have no idea where but I could swear that I had heard of a braided woman who shot a silver bow before starting on the Wheel of Time series. When I first heard of Brigitte she seemd familiar.

One really big similarity is in the name of the Jenn Aiel and the Jain religion. Jainism is one of the most extreme non violent religions, and in many ways is remarkapbly similar to the Way of the Leaf.

3doshiamit
Feb 28, 2007, 7:56am Top

Oh yea the most obvious one...Galad = Galahad?

4dchaikin
Edited: Feb 28, 2007, 1:21pm Top

I hadn't noticed all this before. Also:

Gawyn - Gawain
Moridin - mordred?
Q. Morgase - Morgause (King Arthurs sister and Mordred's mother... interesting legend)
Gareth Bryne - Gareth (a knight who must rescue a few captive ladies, including Guinevere)

These push a little:
Egwene - Guinevere
Lan - Lancelot (OK, probably not this one)
There is an Elaine in the Arthur legends, but I can't see how it connects with the WOT Elayne

It's not a name thing, but regarding the King Arthur legend:
1. there is that pulling the sword from the stone bit...
2. Regarding the Fisher King, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_King

5liselle40
Mar 1, 2007, 12:44pm Top

what about all the Trolloc group names? they've all got h's and ' lurking around, but if you look at the whole thing, they're words for different kinds of monsters. i.e.: Gho'lam, and that's the only one i can think of offhand. let me find the other ones.

6doshiamit
Mar 2, 2007, 6:12am Top

I think all of these were derived from Monster NameS.

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/creatures/trollocs/index.html

Ahf'frait
Afrit (Dont know if thats a real thing but its in Jonathan Stroud's Amulet of Samarkand

Al'ghol
??

Bhan'sheen
Banshee

Dha'vol
Devil

Dhai'mon
Demon

Dhjin'nen
Djinn

Ghar'ghael
Gargoyle

Ghob'hlin
Goblin

Gho'hlem
Gholem

Ghraem'lan
Gremlin

Ko'bal
??

Kno'mon
??

7liselle40
Edited: Mar 5, 2007, 1:10pm Top

Kno'mon
gnome

that's exactly what i was going to do. i just had to get all the names.

also, and this might be out of it,:Aginor, the Forsaken, is really close to Agenor, son of Posiedon and Lybia. but that might be coincedence becasue the rest of this seems to be from Arthurian legend, and there's a really huge difference between that and Roman mythology.

8MarcoGaidin
Mar 6, 2007, 1:03am Top

I believe that Jordan wrote a lot of the names simialar to give us a "feel" for the books. Some form of connection to our own that makes it taste of fantasy less. As Jordan has said - it's all part of the Wheel.

I believe the evidence is greatest in the cultures of Randland and the Heroes of the Horn.

Michael instead of Mikel. Patrick instead of Paedrig. Oscar instead of Otarin. Artur Pendraeg is possibly the closest. Arthur Pendragon with his sword Excalibur that stood for justice. Artur's sword was named Justice. Of course Callandor could refer to Excalibur - ie sword in the Stone.
All of the Andor main players have names that relate to Arthurian legend - Morgase, Elaine, Galad and Gawyn. Galahad and Gawyn were knights of the round table.

Other simialarities relate to more arb things:
* John Glenn: "Tell us about Lenn," Egwene called. "How he flew to the moon in the belly of an eagle made of fire. Tell about his daughter Salya walking among the stars." (Eagle has landed.../Lenn may be a merger of LEM (lunar module) and Glenn)
* Salya: Sally Ride? Or Salyut, the space station
* Moscow, ICBMs: Mosk the Giant, with his Lance of Fire that could reach around the world.
* America::Merk the other giant.
* Queen Elizabeth::Alsbet, queen of all. (Remains of British Empire/Commonwealth?)
* Mother Theresa: Materese the Healer, Mother of the Wondrous Ind
* Anne Landers: Anla, the wise counselor?

All of the above courtesy of the WOT FAQ.

My fave allusions however are the following:
TSR: 11, What Lies Hidden, 146-7 In Tanchico Museum at the Panarch's Palace:

* Stylized Three-Pointed Triangle (reeking of greed and pride)--Mercedes Benz logo (laughed the first time I read this passage in the book)
* Skeletons of Giraffe and Elephant

9dchaikin
Mar 6, 2007, 9:48am Top

Is it just me, or all these references generally homurous, or at least satirical? (Anne Landers!!?) What really stands out to me is that the part of pure heroic Galahad and his heroic quest of the holy grail is filled by Galad and his blind, misguided dedication to the false & evil purity of the Whitecloaks. That is a funny and clever bash at the King Arthur legend (and at Christianity).

10MarcoGaidin
Mar 7, 2007, 1:03am Top

I think that much of the references are satirical in nature. Perhaps to make us see that no matter how important or great they are at the moment, history will remember them differently.
I think Jordan took a lot out of Arthurian legend, though I don't think that he is taking a stab at it.
Galad is doing what he thinks is right, going so far as to suggest that the Whitecloaks team up with the AS.
I believe that to be a general human characteristic. We all try to do what we think is right and flame the consequences. How many wars have been started because one man thought he was doing the right thing?
Right and wrong is often open to interpretation and which end of the opinion you are standing on.
South Africa is a great example of that.

11doshiamit
Mar 8, 2007, 5:23am Top

There was a reference to Shivan the Destroyer, and a Calian his sister. Im guessing references to Shiva and Kali the Hindu Gods.

12dchaikin
Edited: Mar 8, 2007, 8:39am Top

#10 MG: I think Jordan took a lot out of Arthurian legend, though I don't think that he is taking a stab at it. Galad is doing what he thinks is right, going so far as to suggest that the Whitecloaks team up with the AS.
I believe that to be a general human characteristic. We all try to do what we think is right and flame the consequences.


MG, I probably should have tempered my comment a little. To me, RJ seems to have an obvious appreciation for the King Arthur legends. The WOT really revels in fascination with ancient legends that share the same kind of mystery and cloaking of true history as that of the King Arthur legends (no sure about my grammar here, sorry). So, the commentary is more complex then straight humor; I think it's mixed. Galad is an interesting character, I take him seriously. But, he is a link between the Knights of the Round Table and the Whitecloaks. The Knights are generally pure, honorable, heroic and Christian. The Whitecloaks are an evil, deadly farce inspired in part by the Spanish Inquisition. Linking the two through Galad is surely a strike at the overly romantic Christian Knights of the Round Table.

13MarcoGaidin
Mar 8, 2007, 9:20am Top

No worries dchaikin.
I think we both misunderstood each other.
I agree with your take on Galad being the link between the Whitecloaks and Arthurian knights.
The whitecloaks are supposed to be the Children of Light, bringing the message of light and hope to all, yet they are little more than rabid zealots bent on destroying anyone not of a like mind.
Galad appears to be the only character that takes the oaths he has sworn seriously, as well as the doctrine the whitecloaks ascribe to.

It would be interesting to see how his character developes further. Especially now that he is the new Commander of the whitecloaks.
Seems that we are discussing Galad a lot lately...

14dchaikin
Mar 8, 2007, 10:42am Top

I've always wondered whether Galad will turn out good or bad in the end. If he happens to end up going the wrong way.... and does have access to the OP....

15liselle40
Mar 9, 2007, 1:06pm Top

that would add another twist to Galad. another interesting, strange, and useful twist.

anyway, another, and perhaps obvious, name is Shai'tan. seems just a bit too close to Satan to be coincidence.

16DeathByPain
Sep 17, 2007, 5:19pm Top

For the Trolloc bands:
Al'ghol = Ghoul
Ko'bal = Kobold

17liselle40
Sep 20, 2007, 1:08pm Top

so what is a kobold? i've never heard of it.

18readafew
Sep 20, 2007, 1:14pm Top

it's like a goblin, wiki has an article on it.

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