public library overdue notices

I just got ranted at by a customer who claims "all the libraries I've ever dealt with give notices before books are overdue" I work in a major public library and we send out notices by automated message or email 14 days after the item is overdue. How about your systems?

I think customers might resent being nagged by the library before the books are due, not to mention the huge volume of notices we would have to send.

I get an automated message from both my public library and my uni library about 4 days before the items are due. I love it and it's saved me a lot of money in fines.

I have access to my account online and frequently check to see which books are due next. I also often renew them online. But my library does not send me notices about upcoming due dates.

The small public library where I work has never done that and probably won't ever start, because of the volume. If we did, half the patrons would sing its praises and the other half would hate it vociferously.

I forgot to say in message 2 that my notices come by e-mail. I think automated phone messages are an option from the public library.

#4 - I had to sign up for this service at both libraries, so those who would hate the service vociferously don't have to participate.

My library doesn't remind me. That's one of the reasons I signed up for Library Elf.

My local public library (Ontario, Canada) has an opt-in email reminder for overdues.

I haven't ever taken advantage of it myself, but I imagine some people like it. I think that letting people choose if they'd like to be reminded (or not) is the best of both worlds.

BTW, they're using BiblioCommons.

I get an email notice...I think I signed up to get all notices (overdues, reserves, etc) by email when I first got my card. I assume there are other options (phone, snail mail) but haven't looked into it. REally not sure how overdue the book is before they send the notice...at least a couple of days.

We have opt-in email notifications a few days before a book is due, and email or snail mail notifications a couple days after a book is due.

My library has opt-in email notifications 4 days before the book is due. As fines are quite expensive, this is really useful.

Our library sends an e-mail (opt-in but generally preferred) or a letter on the day when the book is due. Then there's a 10-days grace period during which the reader may return the book without any penalty.

I've never been a member of a library that sends out reminders before the book is overdue - after all there is a reminder stamped in the book! I'm not a regular user of my Public Library at the moment so things may have changed and I suppose email makes things easier but I think I wouldn't like to be reminded/nagged over something that hasn't happened yet so having to opt-in or out would be a good option.

I didn't think there were any libraries that stamped the due date in the book anymore.

#13 I'm amazed. How do you know when to bring your books back then? No wonder people expect reminders.

I've just checked my public library service webpage and my membership has expired. I hadn't realised how long it was since I had used it...

#14...you get a receipt at checkout with a list of the books you just checked out and their due dates.

At the library I work in, we have opt-in e-mail reminders 3 days before a book is due, and 3 days after it was due. It's very nice!

I always lose that receipt so I check my account at the library website every so often.

Our library system sends out automatic email reminders to anyone with an email address in the system 2 days before the books/DVDs/etc. are due.

Overdue notices are through email or mail 3 weeks after the book was due.

Our public library gives us a receipt at checkout with the due dates and only starts calling when the materials are overdue. I've never gotten a reminder phone call, and I'm pretty bad at returning things on time. I don't think our system has a mechanism to request reminders, either. But then, we also aren't charged late fines.

The library I work in doesn't give reminders, either. But there are discharge cards with due dates stamped on them. Still, no late fines.

My public library gives one day "heads up" notices to warn that books are coming due right away. I like the notices very much. I don't always need them, but once in a while they've come in handy. At work (special library), we also give heads up notices, but the warning length is 3 days because we're not open weekends.

> 15

#14...you get a receipt at checkout with a list of the books you just checked out and their due dates.

Our library does that, too. I hate it! Here's what happens. I check out two books, and the receipt is stuck in one of them. Then I go back to the library a few days later and check out more books, and get one receipt for those. It's too confusing. I like to be able to look in each book and see when it's due, rather than having to hunt up multiple receipts.

I get one of those annoying receipts (they can print out everything I have out, they've done it for me before, so why don't they do that?). I could use Library Elf, but I can check it online, and there's no fine if I'm a couple days late, and a few more days won't bankrupt me either.

>20
As soon as I get home from the library (or when I get into the car and have my iPod with me), I add the due dates and book titles to my Google Calendar. Then the receipt becomes a disposable bookmark. I have to keep track of due dates for two, and sometimes three people; having email reminders from my calendar is practically a necessity.

My local library provides an email "pre-overdue" notice a few days before items are due. A good reminder. It probably switched to email when I provided an address as before we received notices in the mail after the due date.

Ah, the receipts. I had a hard time with this too at first. For quite awhile I took still-offered cards with dates stamped on them (a very nice service btw) so I had a reminder with each book. But then they no longer glued the pockets inside newly purchased books so that didn't last long.

Now what I do is upon arriving home I immediately tape the receipt to the wall calendar. Just seeing it hanging there reminds me that I have books out, and I can look closer for the exact date.

We give our patrons a quite few options.

The due date is on their receipt (if they want it); they can sign up for Library Elf to get a reminder; they can check their online library account - from which they can RSS this or put it into their igoogle account; and finally they get an old fashioned overdue notice (snail or e) which are sent out two weeks after the item was due.

Our patrons get to pick the method(s) that work best for them.

The libraries I use are self check-out so I put the receipt the machine spits out in the book I'm going to start first. I keep a online tab open for the library I use most to remind me when things are due. Overdue fines are a dime per day per item. Dropping off books through the drive-up automated return system will spit out a receipt for $2 off fines. They want the returns coming back through that system rather than through the front door although that's allowed. No credit receipts tho'. Those receipts usually keep me from having to fork over cash. All items have a 28 day check-out time so it works out well.

> 25

. Dropping off books through the drive-up automated return system will spit out a receipt for $2 off fines. They want the returns coming back through that system rather than through the front door although that's allowed.

Seriously??? Why on earth would they want to discourage people from coming into the library? That's just weird.

26- They still want you to come inside. They would prefer that you come in without your checked out materials. On the bottom of some of the check-out receipts there's a message sorta like this- You don't have to carry in your heavy books. Drop them off at the automated return system then come in. Or ask a librarian why the automated return system saves money.

You can also ride up to the return area on a bike or even walk up to it. It is a covered area for rainy and snowy days. There's a loop from that area to the parking lots. Of course, sometimes the damn thing is broken. There's an old-fashioned drop box container a few feet from the automated area.

The library I work for sends a notice 3 days before an item is due. You have to be set up to receive email notices to get this service.

#13-I didn't think there were any libraries that stamped the due date in the book anymore.

Yes there are still some of us out here who still stamp every book going out of the library.I think this notification is just for those that have their catalog online since I don't have that service we only send out (snail mail) when the book is at least 2 weeks overdue.

The library where I work sends out overdue notices to patrons either once a month or every other month, but we don't charge fines.

My local public library has an opt in for receiving email notices and sends out an email a few days before titles are due as a reminder. It also has an opt in for emails telling you when items you put on hold are available.

I don't understand the debate on overdue items and complaints about whether the library stamps your books or hands you a receipt. You are using the library materials, for free, with the understanding that you will bring them back after a reasonable period of time so someone else can use them. Since when did it become the library's responsibility to remind you to bring your items back? Can't you take responsibility for your own decisions to borrow materials?

Sorry to sound snarky. My library prints receipts with due dates, will print you a complete receipt of everything on your account if you ask them, and sends out email notifications before items come due as a courtesy. People still argue that they shouldn't be held responsible for late fees because the email ended up in the Spam folder, or they lost their receipt.

#31: Being snarky to someone who gets rude and obnoxious about the issue is entirely reasonable. But if getting the books back on time were a big deal, and I couldn't track on the Internet, nor have an email reminder, I'd check out a lot fewer books. How overdue books are handled makes a major difference in how comfortable people are going to be in checking out books from the library.

We send out pre-overdue notices to patrons who get notices via email, but patrons who get them via snail mail don't get notified until the book is overdue.

We send "almost overdue reminder" emails three days before books are due. Judging from comments at the circ desk, our patrons love them, because they help to avoid late fees. I don't know of anyone who has ever complained, except for *staff members*, who don't pay late fees.

My library is currently in the dark ages. We have no online catalog, so that means no one gets the view their account or renew online. No emails either. We'll send a letter snail mail after about 2 weeks after the due date, the computer doesn't automatically generate this, someone has to go in (when they have the time)and run a report to get the letters. We have those lovely (sarcasm) stickers that go on the book cover with the due date (that later someone has to dig off with a barcode ripper). Patrons can call and renew, but we have no automated system on the phone, so you actually have to get a hold of a live human being and, even better, we have no voice mail (I swear it's like I went through a time warp when I started working here!) so if you don't call during the hours were open, no renewal. So if any of you guys get another patron grumping about your renewal system, you can always let them know just how bad it really can be.

By the by, we're getting a new ILS in a few months that will let me do all the online stuff. I am so freaking happy!!! It'll get like living in 2005!! Well, except for the whole phone thing....

We have a system so people can check their accounts online and renew. I don't think many use it. It will only let you renew ON the due date -- and the fact that the renewal was refused if you do it too early isn't obvious unless you scroll back up and check. (Brilliant design, huh?) I HATE IT!

We still put old-fasioned date-due slips in the back of our books, and stamp the due date. People like that! People are welcome to renew by phone -- no voice mail here, either.

We have no mechanism to send notices before books are due. No one here has, to my knowledge, every suggested or requested one. It's all I can do to keep up with sending notices for the books that are actually overdue. I have to run the report and (since I hate the computer-generated letter) fill out my own form to send to each late patron -- and I always check the shelves for the books before I send anything!

And now, due to funding cuts, it looks like we'll be losing our current cataloging system and going to another system that I'll have to figure out . . . since it's cheaper, it'll probably be even less user-friendly.

It is now 21st Century, automation and speed is a
thing to go forward.

Do you have a desk computer with a printer, CPU,scanner and other accessories?

You can start to create a database of all books you
have a library using " a barcode label " containing all
the relevant reference numbers and details of each book.
This service can be contracted to a library service contractor who can do "ColorMarq" labels having DDC
or Library of Congress Labels and "Barcode Number
Reference Number Label" . Do you have a budget for
this project?
"We have no mechanism to send notices before books
are due" - this problem can be easily solved.

Firstly, you have to maintain a current database of all library members, to check whether they have shifted
to a new home address/location, check the current marital status, current residence phone no. and mobile no..All these have to be updated and checked with the
members personally with any documentary evidences.
Without these details in place, your purpose to inform
that the books are due very soon would be pointless.

What is your initial book loan for each book, and no. of books/magazines/video materials and audio materials
allowed to be "on loan" to each person.

To cut down your paperwork load, allow a book's loan period extended for renewal only one time at the time of initial loan.A loan period for audio/video and magazines might differ.

For accuracy purpose, maintain a computerised database of books/other materials loaned out by having the name of members and other relevant details
registered against the name of books. Card system is a very cumbersome and tedious one.
A database can be in this way:

1. Full name of member
2. Current residence address
3. Contact Numbers
4. Title of book /other materials
5. Reference Number of book / other materials
6. Initial date due
7. Renewal date due

Print out a list of books/other materials that are due
to be returned to your library within a week.

Use a postcard or A4 notice for materials overdue
addressed to a library member.

Have a computerised system that will churn out postcards or letters ( to be addressed to the library members).

Impose a fine(monetary) as a penalty (per calender day) for materials overdue each day.

Why not, reconsider to use SMS (by moblie no.) to
remind books/materials overdue?

My university sends you a message about a week before items are due *IF* they're items not owned by the university - ones that you've gotten from elsewhere in the system or via ILL.

My public library doesn't send notices before items are due.

I really don't expect libraries to send notices that books are due soon - then again, I regularly go online to check the due dates of my items. If I didn't, the messages might be helpful.

#36 It is now 21st Century, automation and speed is a thing to go forward.


NO!!!! It is now the 21st Century, and it seems we've created a society of irresponsible citizens.

Too many people are demanding more and more in the way of free services, and are willing to take less and less responsibility for their part of the bargain.

It's bad enough we have to send overdue notices to get our books back -- but sending advance notice of due dates? The due date is stamped in our books. Every cent we would spend sending sending people notices of when their books are going to be due is money that otherwise could be spent on books for our patrons who are responsible enough to return their books on time without fanfare. Every staff hour spent creating such a system and running it is an hour better spent in tending to our collection so that patrons can find the books they want in the places where those books belong.

I may be old-fashioned, but I think if you get to borrow something for free, the least you can do is make an effort to return it in a timely fashion. (May I add, we do forgive late fines in special situations, such as hospitalization, death in the family, or even extreme inclement weather like we had this winter!)

#41: If you make harder for me to keep track of my due dates, I'm going to check out fewer books. You drive away patrons, the people who give you money may decide you don't need so much. The goal here is to work with patrons to provide the best service, not to help the patrons you want to help. Fussing about what people should and shouldn't do isn't really helpful.

#42

But if they spend more money on sending out pre-overdue notices, they buy fewer books, and you check out fewer books.

That said, I think #41 overemphasizes the amount of time involved in pre-overdue notices. If your ILS will do it automatically, all the time you need to invest is someone doing a quick one-time edit to format the notice the way you want it. That only applies to email notices, of course.

And it's not like there are any libraries out there obfuscating the due date at the point of checkout. I hope.

It's easy to keep track of due dates, especially if the due date is stamped in the book. All you have to do is open it...

Now, if you are only given a receipt of some sort, that's understandable because receipts can be easily lost. But, if the due date is IN the book, I just don't see how hard it is to check for it.

#43: There's always compromises. I'm not even particularly arguing for pre-overdue notices; I can check online, and overdue fines have never reached the point of being more than spare change. But libraries shouldn't choose how to handle the issue based on judgment against "irresponsible" patrons.

It's easy to keep track of due dates, especially if the due date is stamped in the book. All you have to do is open it...

Only if you're one of those people who are organized enough that you have all your library books in one nice neat pile that you can look through, and neither you nor anyone else carries them throughout the house and places abroad. Also provided that they're stamped in the back, which is not something I've seen anyone do in recent times.

>44/45,
Also providing you don't renew the library books! Most of the books I check out end up being renewed the maximum number of times, and over the web, so the correct date isn't stamped anywhere. My library's website was down for almost a week, so if they hadn't been sending out email notices I would have had no idea what was due back, since I rely on the website to keep track of everything.

I work for an academic library, and we use pre-overdues (emailed only) for material that is fineable. We don't want to charge fines, we want the books back in circulation. People like it - in fact, they completely rely on it, ignoring the possibility of checking online or looking at the date stamped in the book. Unfortunately i now have to check the database logs every day because there is always someone arguing they shouldn't pay a fine because they 'didn't receive the email'. sometimes this may be true, if for example there is a problem with their email address. But many times it is an excuse - no-one ever tells us they didn't receive an overdue, only a pre-overdue! On good days I just sigh and think 'that's how things are these days'. On bad days I rant about how students today take no responsibility.

The library I frequent (an academic one) is kind enough to inform me if a book becomes overdue (before it can become seriously overdue) but I don't expect them to do anything else for me. I checked out those books: they are my responsibility. I don't expect my mortgage company to send me little "don't forget - your payment is due on the fifth!" notices, and I'm sure they have far more resources than any library.

The goal here is to work with patrons to provide the best service, not to help the patrons you want to help. Fussing about what people should and shouldn't do isn't really helpful.

The patrons we want to help? What's that supposed to mean? We help all manner of folks in all manner of ways to give them the best service we can -- but their idea of good service and your ideas don't seem to quite match. Maybe folks around these here parts have different attitudes and lifestyles from you and folks where you are.

I have NEVER had a patron ask why they weren't given an advance reminder of a due date, beyond the date due stamped in the book. It wouldn't occur to most of them, and many of them would probably be OFFENDED if we DID start doing that, viewing it as an annoyance and an absolute waste of library funds. If they're not sure of a due date, they call and ask us, and we tell them with a smile. They DO complain loudly when they believe we are spending money on "frills" other than good library materials. (We got a grant to install a new sign, and some people HOWLED at the expense -- even though the grant couldn't be used for books!)

I get the impression from some of the posts that many of you have financial, staff, and technology resources that our small, rural library could only dream of -- and a VERY different patron base! Our book-borrowing patron base consists largely of people accustomed to "making do," folks who are often responsible and/or resourceful in old-fashioned ways -- including a sizeable Amish community. A large segment of our service area has no broadband Internet coverage available. Many folks don't have e-mail addresses, and others who do must use our patron computers to access their e-mail, because they don't have internet access at home. (Which makes e-mail notices a pointless effort.)

tymfos, Before the digital age, especially the baby boomers (those born after WW2 ) and earlier have experienced the good old-fashioned 100% manual library with effective and minimal zero error defects -
loss of library books,damaged library books, book vandalism and etc. This will also happened even now with fully computerised systems in control. What counts, it is an attitude and behavior of a responsible ,public library-user patron. I am not comparing a small community library ( maybe with no sufficient funds and grants from their state's coffer )
with a fully automated public or private library.
Manual management and adminstration will still works in this century but with lower levels of automation and speed.

Bravo Tymfos!!I agree completely some of us small libraries can't afford the automated systems and are still working with the due date stamp system and you know what it works for us!
My patrons call me if they need to renew because they look in the front of the book and TaDa there's the due date right there.
I send out snail mail notices if the book is more than a month overdue.
My patrons also don't mind paying overdue fines and sometimes say I'm not charging enough (we only charge 5 cents a day).
Just my two-cents worth.

We are connected with http://www.libraryelf.com/ which is optional service for more customized notices

tymfos, you don't seem to understand that those on this thread who desire an advance notice are those using libraries that do not stamp the date in the book. So saying that they should just look in the book doesn't really help them at all. And saying that they are lazy is mixing apples and oranges because they aren't using the same system that you are.

#54 I'm just saying that if these so-called "advanced" libraries had the common sense to put a due date in their books, they would make it much easier for ALL their patrons. It doesn't matter if you check out by scanning barcodes or with old-fashioned cards. It's still very simple to have a date-due slip inside the cover of each book and stamp a date when the book goes out. (I suppose for libraries with self-check-out, they could have a stamper set with the correct date for the patrons to use -- and clear instructions where to use it.)

It's a simple courtesy we continue to extend to our patrons, many of whom don't have computers and can't receive e-mail notices about due dates even if we were set up to send them. It puts ALL our patrons on a level playing field as far as being able to return their books on time.

It's good for the environment because it uses less paper to have one slip in each book, good for many checkouts, rather than printing a receipt each time the book goes out, as many libraries do; and it saves the energy use of a receipt printer in constant use. (We can still print out a list of all materials on an account via our "main printer" if the patron desires it to keep track of books!)

And it seems much simpler than sending e-mail notices, which only reach that tiny fraction of the library patrons who have e-mail and internet access at home and are willing to provide us the e-mail address.

People seem to like the due date in the book -- people using libraries which don't provide it often complain that they miss it. Better to use a simple step like this, which most people like and which benefits all -- rather than institute something more complex which will only benefit some patrons, annoy others, and not reach many.

Sometimes the "old ways" really are better. Everyoine keeps wanting to make things so much more complicated than they have to be.

And Again Very Well Said tymfos!

I'm sure Tymfos is correct for where he/she is, and it's true that these services aren't cheap. Although I work with technology I don't see the need to use it for technology's sake.

In my library students asked for the pre-overdues and they pretty much are all online. Some has asked for pre-overdues on long loans as well as fineable ones but it would generate an enormous amount of emails and our servers would find it difficult to cope - plus, think people would get so irritated by the flood of emails they'd ignore them so we haven't done that.

We have a limited book budget and must keep it circulating to make sure all students have a reasonable chance of benefitting, so in our environment it makes sense for us to offer as many ways of notifying and renewing as we can - we don't want them to go overdue as it disrupts the studies of others.
It's all horses for courses isn't it. This has been a very interesting thread!
PS on date stamps for patrons use when you have self issue - we considered that but everything else that isn't nailed down goes missing instantly - plus students would just change the dates...

#57 on date stamps for patrons use when you have self issue - we considered that but everything else that isn't nailed down goes missing instantly - plus students would just change the dates...

*sigh* Yes, I thought of that after I wrote it . . .

Sounds like you have a common-sense approach for your particular library. That's what's really needed, after all -- there's no such thing as a one-size-fits-all library policy.