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LibraryThing Facebook integration, phase 1

New features

Join LibraryThing to post.

This topic is currently marked as "dormant"—the last message is more than 90 days old. You can revive it by posting a reply.

2ltmike
May 24, 2010, 3:11pm Top

OK, problem solved. Proceed (: -Mike

3elenchus
May 24, 2010, 3:11pm Top

Notwithstanding the Home Page announcement, I'd say this qualifies as a baby. With an extended gestation period. And multiple parents. And ...

Well. Congratulations all 'round (though I am not a FBFB).

4majkia
Edited: May 24, 2010, 4:21pm Top

I just happened to be working on a review when this was posted. So I went ahead and selected share to facebook.
It did indeed show up on my facebook, but I got this error message notwithstanding when I did :



I"m using Chrome 6.0 at the moment, so it could just be that.

edited to not break the page

5ltmike
May 24, 2010, 3:19pm Top

4> majkia

Fixed. Thanks for reporting it. -Mike

6FicusFan
May 24, 2010, 3:53pm Top

FYI:

At the top of this thread there is nothing listed for Group or Topic, when I am in the thread.

If I look at the threads in the New Features Group, it is listed with Group and Topic, but it goes away when I enter the thread.

7prosfilaes
May 24, 2010, 4:14pm Top

I think #4 is breaking the page.

8jdthloue
May 24, 2010, 4:19pm Top

I agreed to this..by default (LT is my cyber Home) but I don't know how my review will be posted on FB...I usually use GOOD READS (don't throw stones here...their reviews include the Book Cover) but will give LT a fighting chance..Thanks for offering this, by-the-by...

9FicusFan
May 24, 2010, 4:19pm Top

Yes because it is also TOOOOO wide.

10sriq
May 24, 2010, 4:29pm Top

I like it! I've been trying to think of ways to make my friends start using this site without just outright telling them to, and this seems like a good way to get them to notice it. Of course, now I need to write a couple of reviews.

I think when someone puts something in their Currently Reading collection, that might be a good thing for a Facebook update.

11DeusExLibrus
May 24, 2010, 5:00pm Top

10> Seconded

12klarusu
May 24, 2010, 5:17pm Top

Nice. I don't really use Facebook anymore but I will start posting there if it's this easy. It would be great to have a 'Just Read' thingummybumpkin for when a book leaves the CR collection (channelling Zoe here).

13klarusu
May 24, 2010, 5:18pm Top

Now, if you could just get me some more Twitter functionality too ....

*expecting Pony to arrive by UPS tomorrow*

14rsterling
May 24, 2010, 5:52pm Top

Maybe you guys should write something on the app page that says it's an official app, to distinguish it from the non-official ones floating around.

15_Zoe_
May 24, 2010, 6:56pm Top

>12 klarusu: Yup, except I'd do it by date read ;)

Ideally I'd like to be able to go to a Post to FB page for each book and choose to publish a story about it, checking off from a list the elements I want to include:

-Read
-Started
-Acquired
-Read date
-Started date
-Acquired date

-Review
-Rating
-Tags

etc.

So I could say "Zoë bought Book A yesterday and started reading it" or "Zoë finished book B today and rates it 4 stars. Here's her review...."

16timspalding
May 24, 2010, 8:00pm Top

don't throw stones here...their reviews include the Book Cover

So do ours.

17freelunch
May 24, 2010, 8:25pm Top

I don't do written reviews but I do rate everything I read here on LT. I'd like to auto-generate a facebook post when I add a book to my 'Currently Reading' collection and again when I remove it from that collection, ideally the second post would include whatever rating I gave the book, and both posts should include cover art and a link back to the main page for the work on LT.

18ty1997
May 24, 2010, 8:34pm Top

I'm not much of a reviewer. I'm trying to improve on that, but I am what I am: more of a reader than a writer.

As such, I know the features I'm most likely to use/want as far as FB integration goes are akin to what Zoe has said:
- ty1997 has finished reading ________ and rated it ___ out of ___
- ty1997 has started reading ________
- ty1997 has added ____ to his LT shelf

All of this would be optional and customizable, ideally, at the micro and macro level. For example, my profile for FB integration would include the following options:
1. Post to FB when you finish reading a book? Always / Never / Ask me each time
2. Post to FB when you start reading a book? Always / Never / Ask me each time
3. Post to FB when you add a book to your shelf? Always / Never / Ask me each time
4. Post your review to FB? Always / Never / Ask me each time

(Full disclosure: I think I've been pre-programmed to want the items I requested above because I see FB friend using Anobii and Goodreads auto-posting things like that. That is to say: there may be better, more original thoughts out there than my regurgitation of what I've seen, but at the moment this is what I can see myself using.)

Lastly, is their a way to integrate with FB's sharing levels (or whatever they call this option.... the one where you can show/hide status updates from certain people/groups in your news feed)? This is probably a deeper, less necessary feature as opposed to the ones above, but I just don't want my Mom commenting on the addition of Joy of Gay Sex to my LT shelf.

19susiesharp
May 24, 2010, 10:11pm Top

I use a different email address here and on FB do I need to change that to use this function?

20etrainer
May 24, 2010, 10:29pm Top

I'm overlooking something. I edited my review of The Rule of Nine, but it's not showing up on FB. I'll go fiddle with it some more.

21SugarCreekRanch
May 24, 2010, 10:38pm Top

I must be overlooking something, too. I created a review, and it says it shared it. But it's not showing up on FB.

22Topper
May 24, 2010, 11:28pm Top

My review also does not show up on Facebook.

But also, is there a way for LT to prompt me before it posts something to my profile? I want to vet what gets on my profile, but the permissions seemed to imply LT can post what it likes. I don't want that.

23timspalding
May 24, 2010, 11:40pm Top

I'm sorry it's not working for people. Mike?

24MrsLee
May 25, 2010, 12:03am Top

I clicked the box, but the description which came up scared me. It said it would share everything I posted in LT on FB? I would hate that, did I misunderstand the wording? I clicked the choice to not allow, and figured that was why my review didn't show up on FB.

I would absolutely LOVE it if my reviews went to FB from here, it would save me extra work, and I wouldn't mind if my "added" books went there, but I don't at all want my posts from groups to go there. Some of you have read them, I can't have my mother reading them! ;)

25timspalding
May 25, 2010, 1:25am Top

You are authorizing LibraryThing to post to your Facebook. That doesn't mean we post everything. We only post things you want to post.

Mike, is there any alternative wording?

I suspect there isn't. Apps work this way, whether it's LTs or anyone else's. You need to give us access or we can't post anything to anything.

26DeusExLibrus
May 25, 2010, 2:21am Top

Made a minor edit to a book review and clicked the check-box to see how it looks, and worked for me the first time. I'll be interested to see what other functionality is added. I think a "currently reading" type post is an excellent idea.

27MrsLee
May 25, 2010, 6:12am Top

#25 - Thank you, I suspected as much, but FB has been so intrusive lately, I wanted to check.

Another vote for the currently reading info too. That would mean I could do away with the I'm Reading App. and just have my LT one.

28Topper
May 25, 2010, 7:11am Top

>23 timspalding:

It works now. Great, thanks! Pretty cool. What else do I want? Not a whole lot. Maybe the option to post when I finish reading a book. But otherwise this is great. Thank you!

>25 timspalding:

I don't mind giving access, but I always want to be clear on what is getting posted. The only other thing I care about would be maybe when I finished reading a book. I also like the idea of a "currently reading" box somewhere on the profile, but I don't know enough about how Facebook works.

29majkia
May 25, 2010, 8:07am Top

Yes, currently reading box or periodic post we can link to facebook (and twitter?) would be great

30_Zoe_
May 25, 2010, 8:56am Top

So I finally decided just to go ahead and post a review, but I can't say I respect LT for encouraging the "oh, what the hell" approach to privacy. I thought you looked down on that sort of thing.

More importantly, I don't think the individual review subpage is a good introduction to LibraryThing. It's boring and doesn't give any real idea of what the site has to offer. The main work page would be much better as an advertisement, with the tag cloud and other interesting information.

31klarusu
May 25, 2010, 9:08am Top

For it to be worthwhile posting a review to FB for me, it has to either link directly to the review or to my profile. Otherwise there's no point - I don't want my friends to have to root around to find me. That said, my friends on FB are actually my friends so I don't really have an issue there. I'm not uber sensitive about personal data and the web (as long as I'm not broadcasting my bank account details). Most people can track me down if they have a mind to. While I understand that other people are more sensitive about this than I am, there comes a point where you have to say that if you're worried about privacy and have an indiscriminate friend list then possibly sharing data between FB and other web homes is not for you. If it's easy to do, then I can see no harm in allowing people the choice between link to review or link to work page or whatever but (and I am not a programmer) I would think that may be more difficult than it sounds. I certainly wouldn't advocate this impersonal linkage as a default setting though. That's surely not what cross posting is about.

32_Zoe_
Edited: May 25, 2010, 9:41am Top

>31 klarusu: This isn't about having an indiscriminate friend list. I'm more concerned about one-way sharing personal information with people I see all the time. I don't care if one of my friends from elementary school follows all my reading, in the same way that I don't mind sharing it with strangers on LT, but it's weird when people I see on a regular basis have far much more information about my reading habits etc. than I do about theirs.

For the link, the issue is whether we're trying to introduce people to LT in general or just share our own information with them. The review page doesn't invite people to stay on the site and look around.

33susiesharp
May 25, 2010, 9:44am Top

Tim or Mike could you answer my question in #19 Please?If I have to change my email I'd like to change it before I finish the book I'm reading.
Thanks so much!

34klarusu
May 25, 2010, 9:53am Top

For the link, the issue is whether we're trying to introduce people to LT in general or just share our own information with them.

Therein lies the crux of the argument, I think. Personally, if I share it is because I want to share my information. That's the prime motivation. I believe that through that sharing of information, people are introduced to LT, but that's not the main impetus behind it. I don't think it should be either. It's Tim's arena to decide how best to showcase LT. I don't think that's mutually exclusive though. For the people I know, and that's all I can speak for, they would be far more likely to stay around if they were hooked with the 'interest factor' of looking at how I've dealt with my personal library than some kind of generic LT page. They wouldn't be that likely to click further as that's more 'spamesque' (yeah, I just made that word up ...). The main work page wouldn't really grab them - that's just a generic info page on a work with no personal contact.

35Topper
May 25, 2010, 10:02am Top

>31 klarusu:

It doesn't matter that you can trust your friends, if Facebook reserves the right to expose your information to strangers. This is why I prefer to limit the information that LT shares with FB to begin with.

36klarusu
May 25, 2010, 10:22am Top

#35 I don't disagree with you there but I maintain that no-one actually has to use FB. If you (I don't actually mean 'you', just the generic 'you meaning the internet everyman') are not comfortable sharing info on FB because of their inherent untrustworthiness, just don't.

/real-life-rant/
In the real world, I'm surrounded by people who grumble about FB and privacy but who still share information on it. Seriously, it's a free web service. If they don't want to share, don't share. Ultimately, that's the only way to protect your privacy. If people are so sensitive about it, they should just not use it.
/end-of-real-life-rant/

I think you're totally right about the clarity of what content is being posted (back in #28).

37_Zoe_
May 25, 2010, 10:38am Top

>34 klarusu: I think you're right that that's where the fundamental disagreement lies. I share information only reluctantly, in the hopes that it will generate discussion or lead to equivalent information being shared by other people. This is why I'm more interested in "Zoë read this book"-type stories than in reviews; I only published the review I did because it was exceptionally short and impersonal. I hope that publishing stories about books read will start a conversation about books and give other people the idea of posting what books they're reading too. I don't think the work page is boring; if I saw that someone had read a book, I'd be curious to find out more about it via tags etc.

Anyway, I think this brings us back to my initial idea of checkboxes showing what information to include in a story. For your purposes, maybe you'd want a direct link to your profile as well as the link to the review. I'd like a link to the main work page. I know Tim hates customization, but it really can make more people happy....

38FicusFan
May 25, 2010, 10:39am Top

So is this the big announcement that was listed on the homepage ?

39klarusu
May 25, 2010, 10:43am Top

Anyway, I think this brings us back to my initial idea of checkboxes showing what information to include in a story.

I think if it was workable, that would be the best approach because there are always going to be the opposing sides of the argument.

I know Tim hates customization, but it really can make more people happy

But, in this case, I think Tim is wrong. *ducks and runs for cover*

40_Zoe_
May 25, 2010, 11:18am Top

But, in this case, I think Tim is wrong.

I'm always happy to say it ;).

Looking at the review on my newsfeed, I was wondering: is it clear that I wrote it? Should it say something like "Zoë's LibraryThing Review", instead of just LibraryThing Review?

41Topper
May 25, 2010, 11:29am Top

>40 _Zoe_:

Good question--I don't think it's clear at all. If it said something like "Zoe reviewed *Love's Velvet Bondage* on LibraryThing," then it would be clear. But that only works if the post displays your name as it appears on Facebook. (Mine is different)

42_Zoe_
May 25, 2010, 11:46am Top

>41 Topper: I was under the impression that authorizing LT to post things also gave them access to our basic (and maybe not-so-basic) information, so I don't think using our real name in the FB stories should be difficult.

43ltmike
May 25, 2010, 11:51am Top

19> We don't currently access your Facebook email address so it doesn't matter.

All> Working through this thread composing my thoughts and a response.

-Mike

44timspalding
Edited: May 25, 2010, 11:55am Top

So I finally decided just to go ahead and post a review, but I can't say I respect LT for encouraging the "oh, what the hell" approach to privacy. I thought you looked down on that sort of thing.

I don't particularly like Facebook. I don't use it very much. (I absented myself from programming this feature--and it cost us two years of other people not finishing it.) But people who do now have this feature.

I simply don't get the notion that LT protects your privacy by not linking to the specific review. If your review is on both LT and FB, and we link to LibraryThing, it's a trivial matter for someone to connect the dots and know who you are on LibraryThing.

More importantly, I don't think the individual review subpage is a good introduction to LibraryThing. It's boring and doesn't give any real idea of what the site has to offer. The main work page would be much better as an advertisement, with the tag cloud and other interesting information.

You're right. It would be better if we leveraged your desire to post your review into a cynical attempt at site promotion, pushing your review aside and trying to throw sparklies in people's eyes. We prefer that, when someone posts their review, we highlight their review.

Part of the issue here is that, while we post the whole review, its in a format that isn't very good for reading. The size is small and Facebook won't let us preserve line breaks or links. The link allows your friends to read it at normal size, in context, with links and line breaks.

I don't want my friends to have to root around to find me

_Zoe_ believes this protects her privacy.

I use a different email address here and on FB do I need to change that to use this function?

It doesn't matter at all. Emails aren't involved in the connection.

45lorax
May 25, 2010, 11:57am Top

35>

Well, your reviews are already public on LT anyway, so that's really a moot point. I agree that Facebook's recent privacy changes are abhorrent, but that's really not related to posting a link to your already-public LT reviews. (I don't intend to use the feature, because I don't want to link my LT identity to my real name, but that's independent of the privacy policies of either site.)

46timspalding
May 25, 2010, 12:07pm Top

>45 lorax:

Right. And there's no good way to avoid linking them.

A different case could be made for adding a book to your to-read list, or whatever. So long as the book isn't a low-member-count one, LT could post such a message with less risk of someone making the connection. But isn't it just a tease to say "I just added X to my library on LibraryThing" and have the link not indicate who I *am* on LibraryThing?

47_Zoe_
May 25, 2010, 12:11pm Top

You're right. It would be better if we leveraged your desire to post your review into a cynical attempt at site promotion, pushing your review aside and trying to throw sparklies in people's eyes.

Okay, you can be an ass about it.

I have no particular desire to post my reviews. I am actually interested in promoting the site. I'm not sure where I got the strange idea that giving users the tools they want to promote your site to their friends might be a good and reasonable thing.

48_Zoe_
May 25, 2010, 12:14pm Top

But isn't it just a tease to say "I just added X to my library on LibraryThing" and have the link not indicate who I *am* on LibraryThing?

If you're using something relatively meaningless like "added to my library", maybe. But if you're saying I bought the book, started the book, or read the book, that's enough information to stand on its own.

49etrainer
May 25, 2010, 12:22pm Top

I still can't make it work. I suspect I declined some permission in the dialog that opened the first time I checked the share with FB box. Now, when I uncheck and recheck, a box opens briefly, then closes without giving me a chance to see what's there. I have a LT Books tab on my FB profile page, but it is blank.

50Topper
May 25, 2010, 12:57pm Top

>45 lorax:

I'm not referring to the reviews, but to the random activity that may occur on LT but that I'm not aware will be broadcasted to my newsfeed on FB. It's less about confidentiality of information than it is being (and wanting to remain) a generally private person.

In any case, I am ambivalent about Facebook. I don't necessarily *want* my reviews blasted to the newsfeed, but I also do want to be able to share what I'm reading with those friends who may be interested but also don't have an LT account. (I suppose what I could do is create a list of friends to whom I feel more comfortable blasting my reviews, and then set that as a default. Hmm).

51Topper
May 25, 2010, 1:02pm Top

>But isn't it just a tease to say "I just added X to my library on LibraryThing" and have the link not indicate who I *am* on LibraryThing?

That would be worse than useless. That is obviously a "**** or get off the ***" situation. Either you do it or you don't.

What I'm saying is that the checkbox system works great, and I really would rather that LT not send anything to FB without my checking the box first.

52susiesharp
May 25, 2010, 1:08pm Top

Thank-You Mike & Tim! can't wait to try it out!

53majkia
May 25, 2010, 1:12pm Top

Agree with susiesharp. Thanks so much for your hard work and dedication to making LibraryThing even more useful and connectible!

54LucindaLibri
May 25, 2010, 1:20pm Top

Sounds like a good, but late-to-the-game start.

Can someone explain how this is different from just using the "Share on Facebook" bookmarklet that I have installed in my browsers and can use from any page on the interweb?

I deleted virtually all of my FB apps when they messed with the privacy settings and forced everything public a few weeks ago, so unless this (or whatever comes next) adds something very spiffy, I don't see the point in dealing with all the app-allowing nonsense.

Or are some folks not able to use "share on Facebook"?

55ltmike
May 25, 2010, 1:26pm Top

49> etrainer, trying to find a better solution but I'd recommend going to Facebook and clicking on "Account > Applications" in the upper right hand corner. Then find LibraryThing Books on the list and remove it. Finally come back to the site and try to authorize the app. Please let me know how that works out. -Mike

56LucindaLibri
May 25, 2010, 1:48pm Top

Just FYI--When I go to the list of all my Reviews (from the Home page) and click on one of the little FB icons under a review, nothing happens. The status line implies it is jumping to a target on the page, but as far as I can tell, it just reloads the page.

57LucindaLibri
May 25, 2010, 1:55pm Top

Tried to post one of my old reviews. It said it was saving and posting to FB, but didn't. Couldn't locate the app in FB either.

Will go have lunch and check back later.

58LucindaLibri
May 25, 2010, 3:04pm Top

Does this only work if you "allow" automatic posting? I want to allow the app, but only want to post what I ask to be posted, but when I choose those options I never get to a FB login dialog and/or anything resembling the usual popup that invites me to either post something to my profile or send a message.

Still can't find the app on FB either.

Giving up now.

59ltmike
May 25, 2010, 3:12pm Top

56> Sorry, I'll restore that, my fault.

49, 57> etrainer and gocubsgo

I found a couple problems that were only present in Internet Explorer... this may help one of you but not the other. Either way I'd like to know which page you're posting reviews from (the feature appears in several places) when you have problems.

Also, to see your review on Facebook you either have to click on "Profile" (upper right hand) or if you're on your home page you might need to click on "Most recent" to see everything rather than just "top" news stories.

-Mike

60ltmike
Edited: May 25, 2010, 3:20pm Top

58> gocugsgo

Try reloading the page and clicking the Facebook checkbox again. It should popup a window where can can link your FB account to LibraryThing and also give us the appropriate permissions so we can syndicate to your FB account.

The way the app currently works you will have to give LibraryThing "offline access" to publish reviews but we do not post anything unless the box is checked to "share on Facebook" at the time you save the review. (see next post for more details)

-Mike

61ltmike
May 25, 2010, 3:22pm Top

Since implementing the authorization code I've discovered that the we could relax the "offline access" requirement and it would still work. The only difference would be that if you log out (manually or automatically) from your Facebook account then we would have to popup the window and request that you re-link.

You'll notice this is contrary to what Tim says above. This is totally my fault. Tim got the idea from me before I fully understood how Facebook's authorization flow works.

I would lean towards relaxing this requirement, feedback welcome.

-Mike

62klarusu
May 25, 2010, 3:22pm Top

I've managed to post a review by going into edit the review, opting to post it and re-saving (and it looks *sweet* - well done you guys). But ... you could tell this was coming, no? ... on my review page, there's a little FB icon next to the Twitter icon (I usually just click the Twitter icon to post to Twitter) but the FB icon doesn't do anything if I click it. Shouldn't it post to FB if I click it? I linked up all over the shop OK so there's no reason for it not to. Or am I being simple? It's not unheard of for me to be simple. Y'all can just tell me straight ;-)

63ltmike
May 25, 2010, 3:27pm Top

62> klarusu, Yeah, sorry, gotta un-break that (see post 59). -Mike

64klarusu
May 25, 2010, 3:30pm Top

No problem, I can just concentrate on being simple in other areas then.

65Essa
May 25, 2010, 4:07pm Top

For myself, all I really want is a little box that displays on my profile page (not my news feed), and shows what I'm currently reading. And, perhaps, one or two books I've just read.

I currently have this -- sort of -- with a Goodreads app, but it's kinda wonky and it's, well, Goodreads. I'd love to have a functional LT app instead. :)

66crazy4reading
May 25, 2010, 4:09pm Top

Well I can't wait to see how this actually works for me when I post my next review on here. I think it is a great idea and am looking forward to having the reviews show up on FB. Thanks so much for this!!

67ltmike
Edited: May 25, 2010, 4:18pm Top

54>

Can someone explain how this is different from just using the "Share on Facebook" bookmarklet that I have installed in my browsers and can use from any page on the interweb?

The bookmarklet (and the "generic" share feature we've had for a while) grabs the URL which Facebook scrapes and parses then generates a (fairly nice) post allowing you to add a comment and choose a picture.

The benefit of the Facebook app approach is we get more control of how the post looks and works. For instance we can include multiple links and other structured information (like ratings). So we gain control and members gain better integration.

-Mike

68ltmike
May 25, 2010, 4:17pm Top

65> Unfortunately (?) Facebook profile boxes are going away. So we probably won't implement it. -Mike

69_Zoe_
May 25, 2010, 4:26pm Top

Unfortunately (?) Facebook profile boxes are going away.

I've never known a site to deteriorate so consistently; it's really strange. I think FB would have a lot more staying power if they'd stop taking away features.

70glade1
May 25, 2010, 4:32pm Top

I agree. "Currently Reading" seems to fit into the Facebook "what're you up to?" state of mind. I'd love it, of course, if the LT Facebook app could eventually be substituted for the Books app that is in Facebook now. I'm not using that because I don't want to find and list and sort and review and generally do my whole library over again!

But Currently Reading seems like a good place to start!

71ltmike
May 25, 2010, 4:38pm Top

66> crazy4reading, You can also post your latest review by opening it, checking the new checkbox, and saving it. If you want. (: -Mike

72mmyoung
May 25, 2010, 5:10pm Top

I am of multiple minds about this. While I am glad that more people will get a chance to learn about LibraryThing I am, myself, perilously close to becoming an ex-Facebook person due to the ways in which privacy rules have been arbitrarily amended without prior discussion with existing members. I would also encourage LibraryThing to keep some record/administer a survey of those who come to LibraryThing via Facebook. In my experience of others who I know exclusively from Facebook:
a) they are reluctant to pay for services -- that is, in this case, become Lifetime Members
and
b(i))
those readers groups I have joined on Facebook have, up to now, petered out very quickly leaving me to assume that either people who spend a lot of time on Facebook have little time for reading
or
b(ii)) those who are on Facebook a spend a lot of time reading do not use Facebook as a venue to write/read about books.

Perhaps this new arrangement will cause a change in the behaviour of those who fall within group b(ii)).

73etrainer
May 25, 2010, 5:37pm Top

ltmike - thanks for the suggestion. I deleted LT Books on FB. Came back to LT and unchecked and rechecked share with FB on my profile settings page. Went through the dialog, granting all permissions. I hope I saved everywhere I was supposed to! Edited the same review (The Rule of Nine) by accessing it through my zeitgeist, saved it after checking 'share on FB'. Went to FB - still nothing. No more time to experiment today. Will try again tomorrow. BTW - I'm using Firefox 3.6.3.

74timspalding
May 25, 2010, 6:04pm Top

I am, myself, perilously close to becoming an ex-Facebook person due to the ways in which privacy rules have been arbitrarily amended without prior discussion with existing members

I'm not, but merely because FB is already not something I use "for real." But, well, people use it a lot, and want to integrate with it from LT.

75ltmike
May 25, 2010, 6:09pm Top

73> Just wanted to make sure you looked in "the right place" on Facebook, so I'm quoting myself:

"To see your review on Facebook you either have to click on "Profile" (upper right hand) or if you're on your home page you might need to click on "Most recent" to see everything rather than just "top" news stories."

Did you know this already?

I added some debugging so I can hopefully get a better idea what is going on.

Thanks for hanging in there. Let me know what happens if/when you try again.

-Mike

76mmyoung
May 25, 2010, 6:26pm Top

But, well, people use it a lot, and want to integrate with it from LT.

That is why I am of more than one mind about this. I am all in favour of more people finding out about LibraryThing. There seems to be a growing movement against Facebook but I am totally behind using Facebook to better connect with people who don't know LT exists.

77Foxen
May 25, 2010, 7:11pm Top

First: great feature! Just yesterday I was on facebook wishing that there was an LT app, so thanks guys!

Second: I don't know if anyone has said this already, but it would be nice if the facebook version of the review preserved the formatting of the LT one. Mainly I mean line breaks. I just published a three paragraph review and on facebook it's one solid block of text- pretty unreadable. Hopefully a pretty easy fix.

78ltmike
Edited: May 25, 2010, 8:17pm Top

77> Unfortunately there's doesn't seem to be any way to preserve the line breaks. BR and P tags and real line breaks all get stripped. We batted around some ideas and left it as is because it seems to be way all apps on FB operate (we didn't try them all so tell us if we're wrong). The hope is people will know that they can click on the title or the "Read review" link to see the real deal... we could truncate the review to force the issue but I don't think that's any more elegant.

-Mike

79Foxen
May 25, 2010, 9:00pm Top

Ah. Too bad. Hopefully people will click over to LT then!

80crazy4reading
May 25, 2010, 9:45pm Top

Thank you ltmike for the suggestion about editing my review. I did that and the first time it didn't work because the check box was already checked. When I went back in again it wasn't checked and when I checked it prompted me to allow publishing. My review showed up on my profile page and my most recent news feed.

81ltmike
May 25, 2010, 10:56pm Top

80> crazy4reading,

That's not the way the app should behave. You say the box was already checked? Had you edited your profile (under Site/apps) and chosen to "Share new reviews by default"? That should have prompted you to allow publishing if you did?

I'm thinking there might be some room for error if the popup comes up and, for whatever reason, you don't complete the authorization process. I think I can tighten this up a bit anyway but any additional details you can provide might be helpful.

-Mike

82etrainer
Edited: May 26, 2010, 2:36am Top

>75 ltmike: ltmike - Yeah, I did those things and a few others - mainly browsing around in various FB privacy settings to see if there was something there that might be messing things up. But no luck. I'll keep trying. I'm usually the source of my own difficulties! Still, it seems it should be pretty straight forward. I think I'll go delete the application again and start over.

Tried again with no success. Here's what I see when I try to save and share on FB.

83MrsLee
May 26, 2010, 5:33am Top

Been playing around a bit. So when we click the little FB icon under one of our old reviews, it connects to FB with a link, but not the title or image of the book? Is that the way it's supposed to be, or is that the way it is for the moment?

84susiesharp
May 26, 2010, 9:31am Top

YAY it works had to hit permissions twice but the second time my review showed up and its nice with the cover and my review.Thanks so much for this feature!

85Topper
May 26, 2010, 10:08am Top

>72 mmyoung:

Facebook is a terrible platform for intellectual exchange. It's not so much about the people as it is the technology.

86timspalding
May 26, 2010, 10:35am Top

>85 Topper:

Agreed.

Mike, the number who have connected their accounts is not almost twice those who have successfully published a review. That's worrying, isn't it?

87markbarnes
Edited: May 26, 2010, 10:49am Top

>86 timspalding:. I connected my accounts yesterday, but only published a review just now to help Mike's stats ;-) It was painless. I was going to wait until I'd actually written a new review.

88SugarCreekRanch
May 26, 2010, 11:18am Top

My experience has been the same as etrainer's. I have deleted the LT app and reauthorized. When I share a review, it says "Saved and shared on Facebook", but it does not appear on FB. I do know to look at "most recent", or at my profile.

I am on IE 8.

89ltmike
Edited: May 26, 2010, 1:03pm Top

82> etrainer and SugarCreekRanch

For some reason even though you are authorizing the app we're failing to record the linkage. Trying to figure out why.

etrainer, it looks like a few minutes ago your account linked successfully. Did you do anything different? Any details might help me solve the problem more generally. Thanks.

-Mike

90etrainer
Edited: May 26, 2010, 1:04pm Top

When I go to the page shown in the picture in message 82, check and uncheck the share on FB box, I get that the accounts are successfully linked, but no green text saying the review was shared. I gonna leave it alone for a few days and see if any problems are solved.

I wrote #90 before seeing #89. I was fiddling around with it, as above.

91StormRaven
Edited: May 26, 2010, 3:27pm Top

90: I get the same thing. I get the message that they are linked, but no green text, and no review appears on FB. I tried it with an older review (His Majesty's Dragon), and a brand new review I just posted (Black Powder War).

92elbakerone
May 26, 2010, 4:09pm Top

#86 - I'm one of those who linked my account before I had a review in mind to write.

(It was "Ooh! I can publish my review on Facebook!" *link, link, link* "But what was I gonna write in my review?....")

Just tried it out though, and it published beautifully. I agree that the lack of paragraph breaks is a little annoying, but it definitely works, and truthfully, I like that it links to the review page. Thanks for this feature!

93StormRaven
May 26, 2010, 4:13pm Top

When I try to publish my review on Facebook, the box opens to allow access, but closes without letting me actually do anything to allow it.

94etrainer
May 26, 2010, 4:27pm Top

>93 StormRaven: StormRaven - I had the same experience. I'm just going to wait a while, and I bet Tim and Mike will solve the problem . . . soon!

95ltmike
May 26, 2010, 4:29pm Top

92> It sometimes does that when your account is already linked (which yours is). -Mike

P.S. Reworking some code to make other authorization problems mentioned above go away.

96arethusarose
May 26, 2010, 4:35pm Top

Well, I don't want to connect to FaceBook at all, so as long as you make it a choice to connect rather than default I don't care what else it does. I have no FB account, I don't want one. I think all those friending connections are too wide-spread and will probably involve people finding me that I never want to associate with again. I know several people who closed their FB accounts because of too much association and too many friends. If I write more reviews, which I don't seem driven to do, I'll put them where I want them, which is not FaceBook.

97StormRaven
May 26, 2010, 4:57pm Top

95: How long is it supposed to take before a review pops up on your FB page?

98TLCrawford
May 26, 2010, 5:02pm Top

Mine posted instantly.

99Mr.Durick
Edited: May 26, 2010, 5:03pm Top

I'm not going to wrestle with this. My reading is fundamental to me and so perhaps should be shared with my friends even if they are not readers. I just wrote a review of The Book of Revelation for Dummies and was told that it was sent, or somesuch, to FaceBook. Refreshing FaceBook did not bring it up on either my Home page or my Profile.

Oh well. It was interesting in prospect.

Robert

100ForeignCircus
May 26, 2010, 5:26pm Top

I conencted my accounts, wrote a new review, and it posted immediately. I love everything about it except the formatting issues. Theis review was only one para so that wouldn't matter, but I certainly wouldn't want to see two or three para reviews all run together as text. Since FB won't allow breaks, any chance of just posting the 1st paragraph with a linked ... that readers could click to read more?

101apgarcia
May 26, 2010, 7:37pm Top

#10 is a good idea. I second. :-)

102_Zoe_
May 26, 2010, 8:18pm Top

Okay, I've finally given in and started using GR to post to FB about books I've read. I only wish I had done this years ago. I can't believe I waited so long in order to promote LT instead, only to hear at last that LT actively opposes promotion.

103StormRaven
May 26, 2010, 9:03pm Top

98: Well, something isn't connecting right for me, because my reviews don't seem to be hitting FB ever.

104Heather19
May 26, 2010, 10:28pm Top

*dances around* Yaaaaay!

I had to look through some of my old catalogued books to find one to post a review to, just to check this out in action. I love it! Wheeeeee!

I'm honestly not a huge FBer, I mean I wouldn't die if LT never integrated with FB, but I do have a lot of readers/writers on my FB-friends-list, so I think I'm really going to like this.

105StormRaven
May 26, 2010, 10:37pm Top

So its still not working for me, and I can't figure out why. I go to the review I want to post on FB. I click on the little box that says "Share with FB". The permission box opens up, closes immediately, the text says "you have successfully connected with FB". I hit save and . . . . nothing. No post on FB.

So there's something not happening right somewhere.

106ltmike
May 26, 2010, 11:00pm Top

Sorry all. I've been working on and/or thinking about this problem straight through and have been so far unable to fix or reproduce the problem (using IE8 and FF3.6.3 on windows, as well as FF & Chrome on Mac). Works perfectly every time for me.

I've poured over my code trying to imagine what's causing the problem. I did make several small tweaks but I'm not super confident they'll fix the problem. I can't push them until the morning so please check back tomorrow.

For those that it's not working for I apologize.

-Mike

107majkia
May 26, 2010, 11:01pm Top

StormRaven, could it be you have a popup blocker forcing that permission box to close?

108StormRaven
May 26, 2010, 11:02pm Top

I don't think so. My global LT settings are to allow publication on FB, so it worked at least once for me. And I get the text that says it successfully linked to FB. I just don't get the post on FB.

109CarolO
May 27, 2010, 12:47am Top

I'm using IE8 and I just sort of successfully moved an existing review onto FB.

The only problem that I had was that the 'box' did not close after a few seconds after posting the review.

No part of my actual review showed up on FB; just the book cover, title and author (links to my review on LT), the LT website (not a link) and a short LT blurb. Is this a way to get around the formatting or is this a different bug?

110bookmonk8888
May 27, 2010, 7:18am Top

Oh. no!

111TLCrawford
May 27, 2010, 9:56am Top

I have no idea if this relates to the problems anyone is still having but on Tuesday, after authorizing the connection here on LT but my attempt to post a review failed. Wednesday I was looking at FB security settings for the LT app and later in the day, when I posted a review it worked immediately. Could there be a setting on the FB end blocking people’s reviews?

112timspalding
May 27, 2010, 10:59am Top

To all

I am incredibly frustrated with this. Let's give this one more day, and if it doens't work I'll take it down and redo it from scratch.

Well, I don't want to connect to FaceBook at all, so as long as you make it a choice to connect rather than default I don't care what else it does. I have no FB account, I don't want one.

Excuse me, but this is utterly incoherent. It isn't the default. You can set it as the default, but by default it is not. And why are you bothering to express any opinion about the internal workings of a feature to connect with Facebook if you don't have and don't want a Facebook account?!

Oh well. It was interesting in prospect.

I wonder if people understand that you need to save the review to post it to Facebook. That is, the check box determines whether it sends it to Facebook, but it doens't send it until you finish editing it and save/post it.

Okay, I've finally given in and started using GR to post to FB about books I've read. I only wish I had done this years ago. I can't believe I waited so long in order to promote LT instead, only to hear at last that LT actively opposes promotion.

We'll be adding a feature to post books that change shelves. I'm sorry that we aren't using your reviews to create general links to LibraryThing rather than to your reviews, but we prefer promoting your review when you want to post it than promoting our site at the expense of your review.

No part of my actual review showed up on FB; just the book cover, title and author (links to my review on LT), the LT website (not a link) and a short LT blurb. Is this a way to get around the formatting or is this a different bug?

Mike, can you remove the Facebook button? I think people are confusing it with this feature. If we're going to have the Facebook-promoting button it should work the same way.

113_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 11:17am Top

we prefer promoting your review when you want to post it than promoting our site at the expense of your review.

The promotion of my review is the text of my review on FB. Why would someone follow a link to an external site to get exactly the same content they're already looking at?

114_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 11:26am Top

We'll be adding a feature to post books that change shelves.

Oh, I forgot to respond to this point: I hope you'll let us do it by date fields as well.

115timspalding
May 27, 2010, 11:28am Top

Because the content is tiny, in gray text, strips out formatting and links, and because it lacks context--like what the book is, and what other great reviews you've written.

116_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 11:43am Top

what the book is

I agree that this is key information, and this is exactly why I think the main work page should be highlighted. That's where all the key book information is, most notably the tag cloud. There's already a "read review" link at the bottom; the main link should be about the book in general.

My point here isn't even about getting rid of the direct review link anymore. It's about including a basic way to get to the key information about the book. This will be even more important when it comes to non-review publications: if I'm just saying that I've read a book, people will want to find out what that book is.

Maybe even more importantly, you really need to specify in the FB item that the review is written by the user. It looks like it could be any review that I chose to publish, in the same way that I publish articles from various newspapers.

117timspalding
May 27, 2010, 12:00pm Top

Agreed on the link not specifically saying it's by the user. Suggest wording?

118CarolO
May 27, 2010, 12:07pm Top

>112 timspalding: Tim, you are right, I was confusing the facebook button with the new feature.

I agree they should work the same way but maybe you shouldn't remove the button until the new feature is up and running smoothly for all?

119ForeignCircus
May 27, 2010, 12:10pm Top

What if it just said "Library Thing Review by (first name of user): (Title)(Author)"

I like the way it looks except that I think you should only show the first paragraph (or first set number of words) and allow people to click through if they want to read the rest. Many reviews are short, but a long multi-paragraph review that loses paragraph breaks will just be hard to read and unprofessional looking- not the image we want LT to project. I want folks to get a taste of my review, be interested enough to click through, and then stick around to discover how much they love LT.

120CarolO
May 27, 2010, 12:33pm Top

How about when you register for this new feature, in addition to asking for the facebook info, you add a field for either:
1. The name the user wants to show on facebook, or
2. A brief intro that the user wants prior to every review

Is this going to be an all or nothing feature...in other words do all reviews automatically go to FB or can I choose not to share certain reviews?

Will the ER blurb be on FB too?

121jbd1
May 27, 2010, 12:35pm Top

I'm with ForeignCircus on this one. Most of my reviews are longer than a paragraph, and I'm definitely not inclined to publish them to FB if they're going to appear as a solid block of text. I'd rather see a snippet there with a link back to the full review (which would also eliminate Zoe's concern in 113 about seeing the same content twice ...)

122timspalding
May 27, 2010, 12:40pm Top

like the way it looks except that I think you should only show the first paragraph (or first set number of words) and allow people to click through if they want to read the rest.

Facebook already limits it. I think it's a service to publish the whole thing, especially when FB does the truncation for us.

a long multi-paragraph review that loses paragraph breaks will just be hard to read and unprofessional looking

Every other service that publishes to Facebook has the same limitations.

Is this going to be an all or nothing feature...in other words do all reviews automatically go to FB or can I choose not to share certain reviews?

You choose. You can have the checkbox set to "Share" by default, but even if you do that, you'll always see the checkbox and can uncheck it.

123timspalding
May 27, 2010, 12:43pm Top

Library Thing Review by (first name of user): (Title)(Author)"

But that doesn't need to be my review.

How about

My review: on LibraryThing

?

124susiesharp
May 27, 2010, 12:52pm Top

I like the My Review on LT because I guess if I'm posting it I assume people know its my review so don't need my name or user name because I don't go willy nilly posting reviews by other people.

125_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 12:55pm Top

I'd prefer "Zoë's Review on LibraryThing". Yes, there's a slight possibility that someone might think I was constantly posting reviews by another person who happened to share the same first name, but I trust that my friends are smart enough to figure it out.

Also, I'll be very impressed if it can actually get my name right, though I suspect it will be some mangled thing like on most other FB apps.

126timspalding
May 27, 2010, 12:58pm Top

Do you want us to use your FB first name or did you mean _Zoe_?

And, by the way, do you use the dieresis in real life? Do you find other people, um, coöperate? ;)

127_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 1:01pm Top

>126 timspalding: My FB name. I think you could have guessed based on my previous comments that showing my LT user name would not be my first preference ;)

I do use the diaeresis, and people are usually pretty good about making the effort, though I think things have deteriorated a bit with electronic communication. The fact that I can't even spell my name properly in my email address doesn't exactly set a good example for other people.

128timspalding
May 27, 2010, 1:06pm Top

Do people constantly call it an umlaut?

129StormRaven
May 27, 2010, 1:08pm Top

I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong, but FB stubbornly refuses to post my LT reviews.

130ForeignCircus
May 27, 2010, 1:12pm Top

I too like "Colleen's Review on Library Thing" better than "My Review on Library Thing".

Every other service that publishes to Facebook has the same limitations.

just because other apps are content with mediocrity doesn't mean we should be...

131timspalding
May 27, 2010, 1:25pm Top

Anyone having problems like this—StormRaven—willing to have us call you?

Every other service that publishes to Facebook has the same limitations.

I'm not content that the reviews have the paragraphs removed, but the options are to:

1. Feel bad about it.
2. Post only part of the review.

I choose 1.

132ltmike
Edited: May 27, 2010, 1:28pm Top

I rather like ForeignCircus's idea. Truncate before FB gets a chance to and let people click through to see the review in all it's glory.

Note: about to push out some changes in hopes of making this work for people it hasn't been working for. If it doesn't help I start tearing up the walls and fall back to something simpler.

-Mike

133ForeignCircus
Edited: May 27, 2010, 1:45pm Top

I get that you choose option 1 Tim, but wonder if those of us who regularly use FB and want to regularly use this feature would rather choose option 2. I know I would...


I know the photo quality isn't great on that cropped screenshot, but you can see how absurd the block of text is. I don't expect anyone to read that- I know I wouldn't. A truncated review where the "See More" linked back to the review on LT would look much better and help accomplish Zoe's goal of driving traffic back to the site.

134saltmanz
May 27, 2010, 1:30pm Top

I haven't written any reviews since this went live, but I did check the "always publish to FB" box and got that set up. I just tried republishing my latest to FB, and it went off without a hitch. Just so you know. Vista/IE7.

135saltmanz
May 27, 2010, 1:34pm Top

Would it make sense to show that the star ratings are out of 5 stars? Like "Rating: 3.5 / 5 stars" or something similar?

136Heather19
May 27, 2010, 1:44pm Top

I'm loving this feature, and had to stop myself from bombarding my FB with reviews. It works fine for me, XP/Firefox.

137Aerrin99
May 27, 2010, 1:51pm Top

> 133

I agree. I'd much rather have this truncated where Facebook truncates it (before the 'see more' link). My reviews are often wordy, and this makes it long, unwieldy, and unattractive. I'd much rather have it shorter and maybe throw a link at the end that says 'See more on LibraryThing' or 'See the full review on LibraryThing' (to make it clear where links are going).

I don't think the full text is actually very helpful here, and it actively turns me off the app.

138ltmike
May 27, 2010, 1:52pm Top

> StormRaven & others who have been unable to post...

I just pushed out three things which I'm hoping will get things working for you.

1) The scripting that controls authorization is tighter. If there was some sort of logic leak that was making it display that your account was linked when it wasn't it should be fixed now.

2) More server side debugging so we can get a better idea about what could be going wrong.

3) I now try to link the account again when you post the review if for some reason it didn't link when it should.

These changes are based on lots of unprovable assumptions. Hoping for the best.

If it doesn't help I second and third Tim's idea that it would be great if we could speak over the phone with member(s) to try and resolve this.

If the problem isn't solved after this I'm going to cut out a lot of the current code and go for something simpler.

*Sadface*

-Mike

139ltmike
May 27, 2010, 1:54pm Top

137> To be clear we wouldn't be able to add a link to the text (FB strips links) so the link would be like the rating info or on the last line with other "action" links. -Mike

140TadAD
Edited: May 27, 2010, 2:02pm Top

Like StormRaven, I don't seem to be able to post. I've tried it with both Firefox 3.6.3 and Chrome 4.1. I get the "We successfully linked your LibraryThing account to Facebook" message when I check the box, I save, go to FB and see nothing.

ETA: I'm willing to talk to you on the phone, though not this afternoon.

141StormRaven
May 27, 2010, 2:06pm Top

I'm willing to talk on the phone too, tomorrow would be better for me than this afternoon though.

142ltmike
May 27, 2010, 2:06pm Top

TadAD, OK, you did this in the last few minutes before your post? Or possibly before I pushed out new code (~1:45PM EST)?

-Mike

143timspalding
May 27, 2010, 2:13pm Top

I'm loving this feature, and had to stop myself from bombarding my FB with reviews

Good.

maybe throw a link at the end that says 'See more on LibraryThing

Yeah, we can't do that. We have the link up higher, of course.

144TadAD
May 27, 2010, 2:14pm Top

>142 ltmike:: It was after 1:45. I just tried it again—no joy.

145SugarCreekRanch
May 27, 2010, 2:23pm Top

I have the same experience as StormRaven and TadAD. I will not available to phone conference, sorry.

I am running IE8 on Windows 7 on two different machines.

146susiesharp
May 27, 2010, 2:30pm Top

maybe throw a link at the end that says 'See more on LibraryThing

Actaully at the end there is a link that says read the review it takes you to the review page of said book and I think from there if people are interested enough to click on it they will explore the site from there.

147_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 2:35pm Top

I agree that long reviews should be truncated after one paragraph.

Can the text be changed from "read review" to "read full review"?

148Aerrin99
May 27, 2010, 2:42pm Top

> 146

Yeah, I noticed that after I posted - it actually links twice, once at the top and once at the bottom. I think we're probably covered as far as links are concerned! It would be nice if it could say 'read full review', though.

149_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 2:43pm Top

I'm curious: is there no way to have all integration in one place, rather than a checkbox by reviews, later a checkbox or some option by CR, etc. etc.? I'd like to go to one FB integration page for a given book and either choose what sort of story I want to publish or, even better, choose from a checklist of items to include in one story.

150_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 2:44pm Top

I think we're probably covered as far as links are concerned!

Heh, I don't know.... is there an option to include more bottom links? Could one of them at least say "book info" and go directly to the work page?

151timspalding
May 27, 2010, 2:57pm Top

Yeah, I'm not going to truncate the reviews. I think it's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

152_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 3:09pm Top

People don't want to post ugly stories to FB, especially when it's their own words that are being presented in a bad light. Don't you want people to use the feature?

(I speak as someone who wasn't planning to publish long reviews anyway, but the bad formatting is yet another deterrent.)

153ltmike
May 27, 2010, 3:17pm Top

Found and fixed a problem that was affecting posting to FB. Hoping it was the problem that I fixed. Please try again if you've been having problems. Thank you. -Mike

154StormRaven
May 27, 2010, 3:22pm Top

It works!

155timspalding
May 27, 2010, 3:31pm Top

People don't want to post ugly stories to FB

They do it on Goodreads, where you're now posting your info. Go complain there.

156ltmike
Edited: May 27, 2010, 3:33pm Top

154>

I hope no one is offended if i say FUCK YEAH!

Hopefully that's the end of the story and I can get back to making this better (I have the same functionality for Twitter 90% complete).

Sorry for any frustration you experienced with this and thanks for helping me troubleshoot!

Again, hoping this fixes things but please let me know if anyone is still experiencing problems.

-Mike

157jbd1
May 27, 2010, 3:36pm Top

Tim, I'm not sure I understand why you wouldn't want to truncate longer reviews (or why it's cutting off your nose to spite your face) ... it certainly would drive traffic to LT, rather than keeping it on FB, plus it would look better (I won't ever use GR or any other cataloging site than LT, obviously, but I also won't publish my LT reviews to FB if it means they're just a big block of text), and having the link back to LT can show that there's MUCH more to the site than reviews ...

Seems like posting the first sentence or two, with a link to the full review, is a perfectly logical thing to do. What am I missing?

158_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 3:39pm Top

>155 timspalding: The GR story that I posted is just fine. I didn't post my own review there, so it included a summary of the book. And guess what? The summary is truncated, with no click to show in FB; you have to follow the link (which goes to the main work page) to read the rest of the summary there.

Actually, it even looks like they somehow manage to have line breaks. The text is:

American Gods (this is a link to the work page)

Zoë gave 1 star to American Gods on Goodreads

After three years in prison, Shadow has done his time. But as the days, then the hours, then the minutes, then the seconds until his release tick away, he can feel a storm building. Two days before he gets out, his wife Laura dies in a mysterious car crash...

159_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 3:42pm Top

>157 jbd1: The idea of deliberately driving traffic to LT is anathema, for one.

160timspalding
May 27, 2010, 3:49pm Top

>158 _Zoe_:

The return they're getting in is called the "caption" field. We can add such a thing, but we can't put returns in the content.

You're right. I was misinformed. They truncate. So, we can truncate too, if that's what people really want.

I'll set up a poll.

161timspalding
May 27, 2010, 3:50pm Top

It's particularly absurd for Goodreads, since they don't actually link to the review. So they're basically making it a hunting game. Here's part of the review and here's a page that MIGHT have the rest.

Vote: Do you want LibraryThing to truncate reviews posted to Facebook, so that your friends can't read the whole thing there, but have to/are encourage to go to LibraryThing for the rest?

Current tally: Yes 46, No 5, Undecided 5

162saltmanz
May 27, 2010, 3:51pm Top

I think it's the idea of forcing people to click on an external link to continue reading a posted review that's anathema. (And I agree.)

163_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 4:01pm Top

Rewording slightly:

Vote: Do you want LibraryThing to truncate reviews posted to Facebook, so that those longer than one paragraph don't end up looking messy?

Current tally: Yes 41, No 4, Undecided 3

164_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 4:02pm Top

The difference is that we aren't truncating just for the sake of it, or to force people to LT.

>162 saltmanz: No, it was the whole idea that LT Facebook integration might be used to advertise LT to our friends.

165ForeignCircus
May 27, 2010, 4:08pm Top

Tim,
I just tried posting a review using GR. The post was truncated, but if you click on "Read Reviews" is takes you to the review itself on GR (at least it did for me). I like the idea of changing that text to say "Read full review" if that is also something you folks are considering...

166_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 4:10pm Top

>165 ForeignCircus: This is exactly the behaviour that I think LT should replicate. Truncated review, click on "Read full review" to see review on LT, click on title to get general information about the book (work page).

167ForeignCircus
Edited: May 27, 2010, 4:15pm Top

166> I'm with you Zoe! (sorry- I don't know how to make the dots appear...)

I hope the pictures don't make the thread hard to load- I just thought a visual of the differences/options might be helpful for folks who haven't yet used the services.

168susiesharp
May 27, 2010, 4:21pm Top

#165- But you had to click read more to get the full review for library thing which is what I like.I don't really want them to have to click anywhere to read the whole thing but then again I usually don't write really long reviews, and it looks like the GR one just ends and you have to click on it. I like having the option to read full review and if someone wants to go check out LT thats great but I don't want to force my friends to go here just to read my review.
JMHO

169lorax
May 27, 2010, 4:23pm Top

165, 166>

I have to say that I agree with _Zoe_; if Facebook is going to force-uglify reviews, then truncate them before they get the chance. People aren't going to read long things on Facebook anyway, it's not set up for that, but if your application puts long unbroken walls-of-text in front of people, they're going to block it.

170_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 4:26pm Top

sorry- I don't know how to make the dots appear...

Just in case you actually want to know, you can get them by alt-0235, on the number pad, not the numbers along the top of the keyboard. Or if you use accents regularly, you can switch your keyboard to US International. This might also be necessary if your keyboard mysteriously doesn't have a number pad (I really don't understand why they make computers like this; there's a function key, so why not make the most of it by adding a number pad somewhere on the letters? Gah).

This reminds me that I missed responding to Tim's earlier post. Yeah, people call it an umlaut all the time.

171susiesharp
May 27, 2010, 4:27pm Top

But it doesn't its 4 lines then a clickable see more so the only time its an unbroken wall of text is if they click on the see more.

172ForeignCircus
May 27, 2010, 4:28pm Top

168> yeah, you had to click but I assume folks will want to read the whole review and therefore will click on See More. The problem for me is if I clicked on See More and then got that big block of unformatted text, I would definitely move along without reading and would not click on the See More link in the future.

I would rather have one good looking chunk of review and a link to the full review on LT than one big ugly chunk of review with no formatting. If truncating isn't an option, then I can't see myself sharing my reviews through LT.

173_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 4:29pm Top

>172 ForeignCircus: I completely agree.

174klarusu
May 27, 2010, 4:35pm Top

As a user, I don't want my review truncated. It's an extension of my LT identity to Facebook, people will read the whole review there who wouldn't bother clicking further to an external site. From the 'promote LT angle', there will also be people that are interested enough to look further. Bear in mind, if you're using an app to access FB, as most of my friends do, navigating to a web browser to open an external link is a right royal pain in the arse.

175_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 4:39pm Top

>174 klarusu: I just don't think someone would read a full review that looked like the screenshot in #165.

176lorax
May 27, 2010, 4:40pm Top

171>

Ah, thanks. Still, as you say, the uglification factor is still there for people who try to read the review (and then probably give up when there are no paragraph breaks!). I know it's not LT's fault, but it still doesn't reflect well on the site.

177timspalding
May 27, 2010, 4:48pm Top

I've send out a vote to everyone who signed up for FB so far. I think those people should vote, rather than having the vote on message 170-something of a New Features group thread. It'll be interesting to see if the tally differs.

What would people say if the returns were replaced with "" or some other in-text mark that's what's going on?

Mike is now experimenting with every unicode and HTML trick in the book to see what we can get away with.

178jbd1
May 27, 2010, 4:50pm Top

klarusu, I agree with you - ideally, the line breaks would be preserved and the whole review could show up there with proper formatting. But, failing that (and honestly if that weren't an issue, I wouldn't care in the slightest), I'd rather see a review truncated than having it show up as a big ugly text-block ...

179_Zoe_
May 27, 2010, 4:55pm Top

>177 timspalding: I like the idea of these mass-message polls; you could get a lot of other valuable input that way too.

180ForeignCircus
May 27, 2010, 4:55pm Top

177> that target poll? that was slick!

181timspalding
May 27, 2010, 5:00pm Top

Huh?

182klarusu
May 27, 2010, 5:04pm Top

#178> Looking back over my reviews, I guess there would be a few that I just wouldn't post because they'd be unmanageable but I think I'd rather reserve that for my decision rather than an automated truncation.

Sweet profile poll, by the way.

183ForeignCircus
May 27, 2010, 5:06pm Top

ummm...by "slick" I meant I thought it was great- clearly worded and targetted to the people who've already expressed interest in using the app. great for folks who don't haunt these threads.

dictionary.com- "slick" definition #7:
"Slang . wonderful; remarkable; first-rate."

184klarusu
May 27, 2010, 5:10pm Top

#179> I don't think you could over-use the profile polls, though. Some people would think of them as invasive & spammy. Certainly a nice tool targeted like this.

185majkia
May 27, 2010, 5:18pm Top

I agree with klarusu above, that the preferred method is to put the entire review on facebook and then give them the opportunity if they desire to click through.

People who use facebook are used to the fact it uglifies many things, and limits discussion. If that's a major problem for them they'll click through, if not, they can read run-on paragraphs.

I prefer giving the reader of the review the option.

186timspalding
May 27, 2010, 5:20pm Top

More hard data:

Percentage of LibraryThing reviews with double returns in them: 35%

187Mr.Durick
May 27, 2010, 5:24pm Top

What's a double return? A paragraph separation?

Robert

188ForeignCircus
Edited: May 27, 2010, 5:29pm Top

185> People who use facebook are used to the fact it uglifies many things, and limits discussion. If that's a major problem for them they'll click through, if not, they can read run-on paragraphs.

my concern is that readers will do neither. I'm on Facebook every day, and I'm a person who is interested in book reviews/recommendations from friends. That said, I know if I clicked on see more and saw that big block of text, I would definitely not read it, and definitely not click through to the outside site assuming that such poor formatting was an indicator the site itself would be poorly designed.

Obviously not true in this case but if I didn't already have a positive view of the site in question, that big block of text would definitely give me a negative view of it.

189jbd1
May 27, 2010, 5:27pm Top

Wow, I'm kind of surprised it's that low (but I suppose I shouldn't be). Honestly I'm not going to stay in this fight, since I'm just not that invested in it (I might use FB for reviews if they could be truncated, but otherwise I can't say I'll be very upset if they stay as they are - I just wouldn't use it).

This is what I get for venturing into the land of the living libraries. I'm going back to John Hancock's books now :-)

190SugarCreekRanch
May 27, 2010, 5:30pm Top

It's working for me now. ltmike is a rock star. :-)

191etrainer
May 27, 2010, 5:37pm Top

Seems to working for me as well! I deleted a test and now will go post a real review. Ahem, please see my prediction in #94!

192lorax
May 27, 2010, 5:39pm Top

186>

I'm not at all surprised by that number, given that at least two out of three reviews on books I look at seem to be just a single short paragraph.

There may be some self-selection in that people who write the shortest of short reviews are more likely to be doing so just as a note to themselves, and thus less likely to share, but there's no way to measure that, of course. (Well, not until you have good data on the Facebook-shared reviews.)

193lquilter
May 27, 2010, 5:46pm Top

I'm sure you don't want to hear this, tim/mike/et al, but rather than forcing us all into the choice, maybe an option to either (a) have ugly no-BR/P reviews, or (b) have truncated reviews.

And personally I'm all for linking reviews back to LT in either case ...

194norabelle414
May 27, 2010, 6:04pm Top

189: You mean John Hancock doesn't have a Facebook?! What's wrong with him!?

195saltmanz
May 27, 2010, 6:05pm Top

193> The review is linked back to LT in either case. The question is whether the full review will only be available on LT or not.

196jjwilson61
May 27, 2010, 6:44pm Top

195> If it's short enough, the full review will be available on FB with or without LT truncating it. And, if it's long enough, it'll be truncated by FB anyway. So it's only a small(?) window of size where this even matters.

197TadAD
May 27, 2010, 7:03pm Top

>177 timspalding:: I've send out a vote to everyone who signed up for FB so far.

Where do I find that review that's been sent? LT has told me a half dozen times that it's successfully linked me to FB (though it has yet to post a review there successfully).

198majkia
May 27, 2010, 7:41pm Top

TadAD, I just posted a review to facebook. Are you remembering to scroll to the bottom of the page and press SAVE? To see mine, I just went to facebook and then left clicked on my name and what I've posted came up, the LT review at the top.

199ltmike
May 27, 2010, 7:47pm Top

197> I found another problem that I fixed after our first exchange (see 153). Have you tried again since then (3:17PM)? -Mike

200majkia
May 27, 2010, 7:51pm Top

ltmike, interestingly enough, my review that I just posted is fairly long. TweetDeck displays it with the paragraph breaks. How ood...

201ltmike
May 27, 2010, 8:21pm Top

Very interesting. So Facebook is getting the breaks but their presentation layer omits them. IMHO if they're going to accept that much text they should allow some formatting. Gross. -Mike

202SqueakyChu
May 27, 2010, 9:04pm Top

I just went to FB and opened the "see more" on my only posted review. The results are horrid! I'm embarrassed to have that huge monstrosity of gray text there. The text definitely needs to either be divided into paragraphs by FB or linked back to a more readable review on LT. If nothing changes, I'll probably later just delete the review and not use that LT FB application.

What does GR do?

203lauralkeet
May 27, 2010, 9:28pm Top

I haven't tried this feature yet, because I also post reviews on my blog and publish blog posts on Facebook. However, there's one point about truncated vs. full reviews that I haven't seen mentioned: if I'm on a mobile device I would be really annoyed with full reviews in my newsfeed. I don't necessarily want to read the whole thing right at that very minute, especially if I'm mobile.

204ForeignCircus
May 27, 2010, 9:37pm Top

202> I posted a screenshot above in message 165 of the same review posted from both GR and LT for comparison.

205SqueakyChu
May 27, 2010, 9:39pm Top

Thanks, FC. I guess I scanned this thread too fast and missed what you were trying to show. Why can't we do the same as GR?

206rosalita
May 27, 2010, 10:11pm Top

I just linked my account and chose one of my shorter old review to use as a test post. It posted instantly and without a hitch.

This particular review was only two paragraphs long, so it doesn't look terrible, but most of my reviews are twice as long, and I don't think I'd post them on Facebook if they were going to show up as one big block of text. (And the corollary: I'm not willing to write shorter reviews that don't say what I want to convey just so I can post to Facebook.)

So count my vote among those who would prefer to chop it off after a certain number of lines (but how many? Five seems to be roughly equal to the length of the book cover thumbnail) and provide a link.

And I would like to echo comments above who say they'd like the headline wording to make it more clear that this is my review. I like using my Facebook first name (or full name if that's not possible): Julia's review of "The Guardians" on LibraryThing, or somesuch.

Thanks, Mike, and everyone else who worked hard to make this a reality!

207TadAD
May 28, 2010, 6:16am Top

>199 ltmike:: Mike,

With that new code, it now posts.

--Tad

208timspalding
May 28, 2010, 6:18am Top

I think we're going to go with the following:

1. By default, it will chop it off, either at the first paragraph or 5-10 lines in.
2. There'll be an option on your profile to make it post the full thing.

Can anyone come up with the text of the checkbox that means "post full review"? It has a lot of explaining to do.

209TadAD
May 28, 2010, 6:24am Top

I echo the comments above of people who don't like that it says "LibraryThing Review"...implying I'm plagiarizing someone else's words. I'd really like it to say "Tad's Review on LibraryThing" if you can get access to my FB name. If not, at least my LT name, "TadAD's Review on LibraryThing."

210timspalding
May 28, 2010, 6:29am Top

Agreed.

211_Zoe_
May 28, 2010, 8:12am Top

>208 timspalding: After refusing to make options for so many other things, this seems like a relatively minor issue. Give us options about what information to show with the review (reading date, etc.) before you worry about aesthetic options. You had a poll, and one side won massively.

212anglemark
May 28, 2010, 8:45am Top

>208 timspalding:

Assuming radio buttons:

O Post the entire review as one paragraph
O Post the first n lines of the review

213timspalding
May 28, 2010, 8:52am Top

Oh, I like that.

214_Zoe_
May 28, 2010, 8:55am Top

>213 timspalding: It's extremely disappointing that options are always so hard and terrible and unnecessary, until popular opinion is against you.

215librarianalison
May 28, 2010, 8:59am Top

I agree - twitter functionality required!

216klarusu
May 28, 2010, 9:00am Top

Like angelmark's suggestions but 'single' instead of 'one'.

Not particularly interested in getting options about what to show with the review. I prefer this to be just a review & I'm assuming that things like reading dates will be dealt with later in their own way. I don't see it as necessary to clutter this feature.

Polls have never been about 'winning'. I thought Tim always stressed they were one data point only and other things are taken into consideration. Also, the majority don't necessarily decide on the best thing. Although I can see why Zoe would like this one to be that simple as it is a perceived 'victory' in Zoe-land. Anyhow, I though you were using Goodreads now anyway ;-)))

217_Zoe_
May 28, 2010, 9:09am Top

Polls have never been about 'winning'. I thought Tim always stressed they were one data point only

Sure, but then why waste everyone's time, especially when the results are so overwhelming? We already had a poll in this thread. It turned out not the way Tim wanted. He sent another poll to everyone using the feature. It still didn't turn out the way he wanted, by a really dramatic margin.

I understand using polls as a data point when they might conceivably have some effect on the outcome. But if you're already determined to disregard the result entirely, don't insult us by bothering to ask.

Anyhow, I though you were using Goodreads now anyway ;-)))

This is about the general principle of the thing. There are so many more serious issues on LT that could be happily resolved by giving us options. And Tim has said so many times that options are bad and to be avoided if at all possible. I don't like the hypocrisy of it.

218susiesharp
May 28, 2010, 9:12am Top

I for one am glad Tim is focusing on this integration first .Let's get the review part up and running smoothly then move on to currently reading and such.I also think Tim was right to send the poll to the people that have actually signed up for this feature rather then the handful of people that would vote on this thread .
You all do great work!Keep it Up!

219timspalding
May 28, 2010, 9:15am Top

Frankly, I didn't come up with the option. Mike presented it to me. It's easier to add an option to do something that it's currently doing. (The difficulty is all in making it possible to do the OTHER thing.) And I think it's fairly important to get publishing to Facebook right.

I agree - twitter functionality required!

Mike's working on it.

220timspalding
May 28, 2010, 9:21am Top

It turned out not the way Tim wanted.

To be honest, I thought it was a wonderful chance to experiment with whether Talk and a poll of actual users of a feature differed. This was a case where--of necessity--we had those users well defined.

But if you're already determined to disregard the result entirely, don't insult us by bothering to ask.

What? I didn't disregard the result!

Let's get the review part up and running smoothly then move on to currently reading and such.

There's no question this is the best approach. It was right as a principle of design but it turned out more right than we thought when Mike debuted the feature and for some reason--hidden deep in his code, apparently--it didn't work right for many users. If we had debuted with Facebook doing more complex things, we'd have spent much more time trying to separate out where the bug was. (Honestly, the next step was actually to make it much simpler--to have an absolutely dead-simple post interface, so we could isolate it still further. But it seems the problem was resolved.)

Currently, reading, ratings and etc. also involve a second layer of problems. I do not think it makes sense for it to literally trigger on the action. I don't want to select the "Currently reading" collection, then change it to "Wishlist" and have LibraryThings send two separate mini-updates to my Facebook--spamming all my friends. Something more forgiving, transparent and, I think, ganged, needs to be done. I have ideas about it, but first let's get everything buckled down.

221_Zoe_
May 28, 2010, 9:34am Top

It's easier to add an option to do something that it's currently doing.

So, can we get back that old connection between the date fields and CR?

To be honest, I thought it was a wonderful chance to experiment with whether Talk and a poll of actual users of a feature differed.

It's reassuring to see that the results were the same :)

What? I didn't disregard the result!

Well, giving us an option means that the result was irrelevant.

There's no question this is the best approach.

I don't disagree with the approach, I'm just thinking ahead.

Currently, reading, ratings and etc. also involve a second layer of problems. I do not think it makes sense for it to literally trigger on the action. I don't want to select the "Currently reading" collection, then change it to "Wishlist" and have LibraryThings send two separate mini-updates to my Facebook--spamming all my friends.

On the other hand, I think it would make perfect sense to send an update when I entered a Finished date of either today or yesterday. Unlike Collections or Ratings, that's something that isn't going to change a lot. Likewise for started date.

I would prefer to have confirmation pop-ups for everything, though, at least optionally.

I also think it would make sense to have a separate Facebook Publishing page for each book, where we could choose exactly what we wanted to publish. Even with reviews, I think the current interface is a big ungainly, requiring us to check the box and then scroll down a lot to save.

222timspalding
May 28, 2010, 9:40am Top

So, can we get back that old connection between the date fields and CR?

It's not currently doing that.

Well, giving us an option means that the result was irrelevant.

The default will be to publish the portion. The 7 nos will also have an option they can use.

On the other hand, I think it would make perfect sense to send an update when I entered a Finished date of either today or yesterday. Unlike Collections or Ratings, that's something that isn't going to change a lot. Likewise for started date.

I'd rather give you a moment to change your mind. (I'd be happy to go through the database and find what percentage of dates were changed within a minute of the last time. I suspect it's not trivial.) But more importantly I'd prefer to gang it. If you enter a finished date, then you rate it and then you review it, I'd like to have one thing posted to Facebook, not three.

223_Zoe_
Edited: May 28, 2010, 9:51am Top

I'd rather give you a moment to change your mind.

Well, I said I'd like to confirm each story individually anyway.

I'd be happy to go through the database and find what percentage of dates were changed within a minute of the last time. I suspect it's not trivial.

I think this would happen significantly less for "today" and "yesterday" dates, though. It's annoying that when I want to enter a slightly earlier date and type, say, "Monday", it assumes I'm referring to the coming Monday and not the one just past.

But more importantly I'd prefer to gang it. If you enter a finished date, then you rate it and then you review it, I'd like to have one thing posted to Facebook, not three.

This makes sense, and is why I suggested checkboxes that let us choose what to include in the story (Message 15). That idea didn't seem to get any traction, though.

224jjwilson61
May 28, 2010, 9:50am Top

If you enter a finished date, then you rate it and then you review it, I'd like to have one thing posted to Facebook, not three.

That's going to be tricky to figure out the timing. Waiting a few minutes to see if a rating is entered is one thing, but it could take hours to days for someone to write a review.

225susiesharp
May 28, 2010, 10:03am Top

I for one don't want susie just finished such and such then another post susie reviewed such and such .If I reviewed it obviously I finished it.

226jjwilson61
May 28, 2010, 10:08am Top

225> Which just points out that you need to ask the user if they want to publish something after an event.

227SugarCreekRanch
May 28, 2010, 10:11am Top

I want to take an explicit action for each post to FB. With some books, just rating will be sufficient. For others, I'll want to include a review. And others I won't want to go to FB at all.

228timspalding
May 28, 2010, 10:41am Top

This makes sense, and is why I suggested checkboxes that let us choose what to include in the story (Message 15). That idea didn't seem to get any traction, though.

So, how does that work when you're editing your data in the catalog? Everything is easier if, like Goodreads, you don't allow people to edit most of the book's data, and there's only one way and one place to edit it, which includes everything editable. LT's a more complex system.

I want to take an explicit action for each post to FB.

That's fine. But some people will want it to be automatic.

229_Zoe_
May 28, 2010, 11:10am Top

>228 timspalding: It has nothing to do with editing data in the catalogue. You edit your data in the catalogue. Later, you want to publish a FB story about the book. You go to the FB publishing page and choose what you want to publish.

I don't think you can do edit-based stories without redundancy. If adding a rating publishes a story, it publishes a story. If adding a finished date publishes a story, it publishes a story. When you try to suppress some of that ("I added a rating, and it didn't produce a story--what's going on here?") it will just become an incomprehensible mess.

So, edit-based stories are fine if you'll allow redundancy. But if you don't want people publishing one story when they rate a book and one story when they finish a book, you need a different system.

You could also trust your users to set non-redundant options for themselves ("I'll publish completion, but not ratings"), but that still leaves them with the option for redundancy.

230jjwilson61
May 28, 2010, 11:47am Top

In an ideal world someone could finish a book and LT would publish that to FB then they rate the same book and LT would modify the previously published story to say that they finished and rated it. However, I'm presuming that you don't have the ability to alter something that had been previously published.

231ltmike
Edited: May 28, 2010, 12:45pm Top

I added a preference to Edit profile -> Sites/apps:



Reviews will now be truncated by default (as much of the first paragraph as FB will accept). If you don't like this you can change the radio button.

Thanks for the input from everyone and angelmark for the radio button idea and text that we mostly copied.

-Mike

232lorax
May 28, 2010, 12:39pm Top

231>

Should be "excerpt", but other than that, it looks clear, and thanks.

233ltmike
May 28, 2010, 12:40pm Top

Uf, thank you...fixing...

234TadAD
May 28, 2010, 1:07pm Top

Mike,

I like the new look of things better. Now would it be possible to address the title (see post #209)? :-)

Yes, never satisfied; I know.

235ty1997
May 28, 2010, 1:13pm Top

I know what "Does not preserve paragraphs" means because I've read this thread, but I think it might be ambiguous to those who haven't. Perhaps "Does not preserve paragraph breaks" would be more clear?

236_Zoe_
May 28, 2010, 1:15pm Top

>235 ty1997: Agreed.

237ltmike
May 28, 2010, 1:44pm Top

I would guess people would be less likely to know what "paragraph breaks" means. Seems very programmer-y to me. -Mike

238CarolO
May 28, 2010, 1:47pm Top

I think most people using a computer have used some kind of word processing and, if so, "break" is a very common term, as in insert paragraph break or insert line break.

239LucindaLibri
May 28, 2010, 6:45pm Top

Gave it a day and then tried again.

Went to a book I had reviewed previously. Clicked on the little blue box that says "Reviewed". Got a pop up showing the review. Tried to click on the little "Share on Facebook" checkbox. Got sent to authorization.

Clicked on the first button to allow authorization, but I DO NOT want LT to publish automatically without prompting me, so I said no to that.

This shot me back to the original popup window of the review without any indication that anything had happened. I am not able to get the checkbox to be checked using the above authorization options. If choosing "Don't Allow Automatic Posting" is going to not allow any posting at all, that page of the authorization process should say that.

I'm also still unable to find "LibraryThing Books" in the FB apps search on FB. (Also searched "Library Thing Books" to no avail.)

Will check back after the weekend. (feel free to email me if you need more info before then)

240athenasowl
May 28, 2010, 6:49pm Top

I agree with the poster who'd like to selectively publish reviews, not let their entire friendslist see them.

And if I think about it, I'd rather bring people from FB to LibraryThing than give FB more ways to get and abuse content from me.

241ltmike
May 28, 2010, 7:59pm Top

239> You should see a little gray message above the text box indicating we were unable to authorize you if you don't accept all the Facebook prompts.

I'm assuming you didn't see that... which browser and OS do you use?

Thanks,
Mike

242LucindaLibri
May 28, 2010, 8:09pm Top

Mac OS 10.4.11
Safari 4

Never saw any message. But since I don't want anything automatically posted (I want to authorize each post to FB and receive confirmation of each post to FB) I'm guessing this is not the app for me.

If I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "post automatically" let me know, otherwise I'll continue to use other ways of sharing my reviews with my FB friends (I usually cross post on my blog and I can easily pop my blog review up on to FB with none of this hassle).

This really should be much simpler . . . I've never had this much trouble posting anything to FB before.

243ltmike
Edited: May 28, 2010, 10:32pm Top

242>

The permission being asked for is needed so we can post to your profile from a php script without prompting you with a popup every time. There's a chance I have this wrong. I'll do some testing and if possible we'll drop the requirement.

In the meantime we're not going to post to Facebook unless you check the box indicating you want us to.

Keep in mind that authorizing our app at all (even without the permission in question) gives us volumes of data about you and your social graph but we're not going to start doing sleazy stuff with it just because we can... of course it's always your choice if you want to trust us or not.

The reason you don't see the app is that if we ask Facebook to prompt you to authorize + permission 1 + permission 2 they don't add the app to your account unless you say yes to all 3.

-Mike

244CarolO
May 29, 2010, 12:44am Top

>243 ltmike: OK, I've signed up and maybe once I get a new review posted then all this will be a little more clear to me

...however, until then, it is not my trust of LT that is the issue. I just want to be sure that I am choosing what gets posted to FB and right now when I have to authorize "ALL" it makes me feel like I don't have that kind of control.

TPTB responses implies that I will have that control but it hasn't been explained clear enough for me to see how or when that happens once I have registered.

245cvedovini
May 29, 2010, 3:43am Top

ltmike normally there is only one permission you'd need to ask to achieve thid, it is "stream_publish"

by the way, I just tried to post an old review to FB: checked the box (I already authorized the application yesterday) and saved the review. And I got the following error:

300

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /var/www/html/inc_librarything.php:1959) in /var/www/html/update_oldbook.php on line 316

(I was on this page: http://www.librarything.com/work/edit/57426790?editreview=1)

246bookmonk8888
May 29, 2010, 4:11am Top

re Message 242: gocubsgo
FB are cleaning up their act about making personal info available indiscriminately, even selling it to retail companies. This change followed the outrage from what one of their founders said recently.
There are also several sites like spokeo.com that aggregate info about people, much of it very inaccurate. Put your name in spokeo.com and I can practically guarantee you that you'll find details about yourself.

247bookmonk8888
May 29, 2010, 4:11am Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

248cvedovini
May 29, 2010, 6:46am Top

Hi all, just one question, out of curiousity, for all the people here concerned with privacy issues:

You publish your library on LT, this is public and everyone with an Internet connection has access to it and you publish stuff on Facebook that all your "friends" can see. So exactly what is the problem?
1. You don't want your friends on FB to see what you have in your library?
2. You don't want the LT team to get access to your FB data?
3. Anything else?

Thanks for the answers :)

249SilversReviews
May 29, 2010, 7:29am Top

I just posted a review to FB....it only put the top line and then to "read more" it took me to LT's page with the review of the book.

250ltmike
May 29, 2010, 9:34am Top

244> If you submit a review with the "Share on Facebook" checkbox checked we send it to Facebook. If it isn't checked we don't send it. -Mike

251ltmike
May 29, 2010, 9:47am Top

245> Looking into dropping offline_access today. I just fixed the error you reported, thanks. -Mike

252rosalita
Edited: May 29, 2010, 12:03pm Top

Put your name in spokeo.com and I can practically guarantee you that you'll find details about yourself.

No, you can't. I've gotten the scary warnings about this site numerous times from friends, and checked it out. They don't even know I exist. Several of my friends say they are listed, but the information is so inaccurate as to be laughable (saying they are married when they are not, saying they own a huge expensive home when they do not, etc.) I do understand some of people's concerns about privacy, but I am rapidly getting tired of the Chicken Little attitude that's running rampant these days.

I know that privacy isn't the only concern for some people; they simply want to be sure that they aren't cluttering up their friends' news feeds with more posts than necessary. That concern I completely understand, and I'm glad ltmike and tim are looking into ways to make the posting as efficient as possible.

253CarolO
May 29, 2010, 2:31pm Top

>248 cvedovini: I'm not sure if I'm one of the people you are addressing or not but I will explain why I want control of what is posted rather then having all my reviews post automatically.

I assume that people on LT are VERY interested in books and anyone looking at my reviews is doing so because of that interest.

I do not assume that everyone I have friended on FB has that same level of interest and so I would only want to post reviews that I think are of more general interest.

254majkia
Edited: May 29, 2010, 4:37pm Top

ltmike: Just posted a review. The first paragraph of it showed up on facebook, and looked great.

But on tweetdeck instead of 'see more' or whatever other words were supposed to send them to LT for the full review, it said, "…" but did act like a link and went to LT correctly.

Not sure you can fix that, but thought you might like to know.

edited: argh. the site edited out the html code which showed up rather than the actual three periods that show in the quotes.

255Heather19
May 29, 2010, 5:06pm Top

Okay, I've just noticed a side-effect, or rather something I didn't realize would happen.

I have the "share new reviews by default" checked. However, it doesn't JUST share new reviews. EVERY SINGLE TIME I edit a book's information, if I do it through the "edit book" page instead of in-catalogue, it will post the review to my Facebook. I just had to delete more then a few OLDER reviews on Facebook, because I edited simple things that have nothing to do with the review.

Is there any way to stop this from happening, or am I just going to have to un-check the default?

256timspalding
May 29, 2010, 5:10pm Top

That shouldn't be happening. The default should un-default itself if the review's been shared. Mike?

257Heather19
May 29, 2010, 5:17pm Top

No, they aren't reviews I've shared before, but older reviews, written last year or last month or whatever, that I don't *want* to share. I don't think it should automatically post an already-written/saved review just because I edit, say, the tags.

258timspalding
May 29, 2010, 6:08pm Top

Ah. Okay, so the checkbox was checked.

I think this points out what I'd really like out of this. I'd like LibraryThing to post everything it's going to post in on a "going out" page. When things are going to go, an icon should light up at the top of your screen. And you get a few minutes to edit them, delete them or whatever. This idea also has the advantage of allowing your notices to accumulate information—for a review to also include a rating, for example, if you rated it after you reviewed it.

259Heather19
May 29, 2010, 7:43pm Top

I definitely like that idea.

260_Zoe_
May 29, 2010, 8:06pm Top

>258 timspalding: I'd prefer the exact opposite of that: rather than starting with what LT is planning to post and letting the user modify it, I'd like the user to specify exactly what they want to post, and then have LT post it.

261jjwilson61
May 29, 2010, 11:10pm Top

258> I think there ought to be a way for the user to tell LT to delay the post so he has time to finish a review, for example.

262TLCrawford
May 30, 2010, 9:11am Top

It doesn't matter if you turn the bolt or the nut as long as the end result is what you intended.

263TadAD
Edited: May 30, 2010, 9:20am Top

I don't really care if Facebook puts everything onto a "going out" page. But I would be unhappy if it posted it without my clicking an explicit Go button. Timer-based stuff would cause me to turn the feature off completely because I don't want LT posting without my explicit consent.

264BTRIPP
Edited: May 30, 2010, 12:10pm Top

OK ... I'm somewhat confused.

I just noticed that the Facebook button was no longer up with the Twitter button for sharing reviews. I have been in the habit of sharing both places once I'm done posting a review. However, I don't want to have "automatic" sharing with Facebook, and when I noted that preference the review was not shared.

Is there a "manual" option to share the review? From what I just went though it would appear not.

Frankly, I'd just as well send folks to my review blog as to send them to LibraryThing.com, but I'd been using the buttons here for the convenience, figuring I don't mind LT getting the traffic. If I have to do any of this manually via FB or Twitter, however, I have no reason to point them here ... so it would seem to be in LT's interest to have an easy-to-use manual option as well as the never-gonna-do-it Facebook tentacle feed.


265ShellyS
Jun 3, 2010, 12:32am Top

Yay. I've been wanting this for a while. Along with reviews, I'd love to see books in my library included, or at least any I tag as reading now.

266reading_fox
Jun 3, 2010, 6:26am Top

I've finally joined FB just* because this feature was introduced. It seems to do exactly what I want and looks and works fine to me. Thanks.

#264 - in the edit book page either check the tickbox or not - home much more manual do you need?

*well I've been thinking about it for a while. But this is the straw that pushed me into it.

267LucindaLibri
Jun 3, 2010, 10:33am Top

re spokeo please read the snopes.com info about it . . .

re finding the app on FB . . . I know how to find FB apps I've already added, but I also should be able to search FB apps for LibraryThing Books and find it on the list as something I might want to add . . . it doesn't show up there

my issue isn't about privacy, after all, my LT library is public, I encourage my friends (FB & non) to look at it. However, I don't allow any FB app to "automatically" post to my profile. All of the apps I use, including FBs own Photo sharing app, prompt me about publishing or skipping. Lots of the time, I choose "skip" until I decide how and when and what I want to share.

I'm not sure what FBapps you are modeling this one after, but it doesn't seem to work the way I'm used to them working: i.e., authorization just connects me with the app (and all the potential evil and good it can do). Once authorized, I decide what gets posted and what doesn't. This sounds like what you intend, but it's not what you have implemented.

268saltmanz
Edited: Jun 3, 2010, 11:51am Top

260/267> Please, no. Don't add any manual processes to this. The entire POINT is to automate. If I want to click buttons or manually pick-and-choose to post stuff manually, I can do that just fine WITHOUT an app.

269TimSharrock
Edited: Jun 3, 2010, 4:13pm Top

268> please DO add at least a confirmation - if it is fully automatic, I will spend too much time double-checking whether it is going to post something or not, and would probably disable the app to avoid the thought

(edited: typo)

270lquilter
Jun 3, 2010, 3:45pm Top

Can't we have a default-preference choice for Twitter too?

271timspalding
Jun 3, 2010, 3:53pm Top

Coming.

272ForeignCircus
Jun 3, 2010, 5:23pm Top

just wanted to say how much I am enjoying the ease of sharing my LT reviews on FB. I'm really hoping it helps drive some friends to LT...

273StormRaven
Jun 3, 2010, 5:24pm Top

My reviews, after a brief shining moment when they would post to FB, now stubbornly refuse to do so again.

274timspalding
Jun 3, 2010, 9:25pm Top

I'm sure Mike will let you know what's going on. You didn't publish an enormous number in one day, did you. I think there's some sort of cap, like 20. Not sure.

275StormRaven
Jun 3, 2010, 9:27pm Top

274: No. I've tried one or two a day for the last couple days just to see if it was something temporary that cropped up as things were being done by you guys. I had a couple post early on, but the last couple of Tremeraire reviews I've written have just not posted to FB.

276BTRIPP
Jun 3, 2010, 11:23pm Top

Now, I admit that I'm a long-time Facebook "hater", and I don't trust Zuckerberg & Co. worth spit.

So anything that "automates" interface with FB is immediately suspicious to me.

The previous option (clicking the Facebook button) asked if you wanted to share THAT review over on FB. It appears to me that the ONLY OPTION we have now is to link our LibraryThing account with our Facebook account ... even to share ONE review.

I do not want to give those thugs access to ANYTHING ... and if it means that my reviews on LT don't show up on FB, I'm OK with that, but it would be nice to be able to share things without handing the keys over to goons who have shown a long-time total disregard for privacy and user control of information!

 

277timspalding
Jun 4, 2010, 1:01am Top

>276 BTRIPP:

Well, in fairness, they don't have access to anything more. They don't get to change your data or know more about you. Rather, LibraryThing gets the ability to post things to your feed--full items, not just the "link to URL" which the previous posting provided. So, it's we who are the thugs, so to speak.

278SqueakyChu
Jun 4, 2010, 8:17am Top

Now that the full block of squashed-together text is gone, I find the FB integration feature very nice. It give me the opportunity to *occasionally* choose to publish a snippet of my better reviews and have them link directly back to LT for the full review. This seems like a win-win situation to me. A peek at my reviews at FB, and then the pulling of those "peekers" into LT itself for the full review.

279StormRaven
Jun 4, 2010, 2:39pm Top

274: Just a case in point for you guys to look at - my freshly submitted review for Tongues of Serpents did not post to FB, despite having the box checked for it to do so.

280ltmike
Edited: Jun 4, 2010, 4:43pm Top

All,

Just made a big push to Twitter integration. Mostly just dealing with people who revoke access to LibraryThing from their Twitter preferences (FB makes this way easier by pinging us when that happens). There's no perfect way to deal with this... but it's a little less jangle-y now, sends you a comment if you keep using the feature after revoking access and offers a link to re-authenticate. I did a bunch of stuff actually but got so mired in nasty (very hard to debug) issues that I can't recall what they all were off the top of my head. Hopefully all stuff that makes the world a happier place (there's a BP oil spill cleanup algorithm in there somewhere).

Initial Twitter problems + changes Tim asked for + other LT tasks that came up + the fact that I had way too many files "checked out" prevented me from stuff promised above since last week. Sorry. Moving on, nailing down boards, and doing stuff promised above next.

StormRaven, Following up on your issue before I do the above.

-Mike (mike@librarything.com)

281majkia
Jun 4, 2010, 4:59pm Top

Mike, the twitter connection is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!! Good Job!!!!!!

282FicusFan
Jun 4, 2010, 9:19pm Top

How does the Twitter connection work ?

I have my Twitter account listed on Also On. The Twitter in sites/apps is disabled. I don't have a list on Twitter in my Connections, so no way to add LT.

I know that you can press the T under your review to post your review, but how do you get the books you add to show up on Twitter ?

283ltmike
Jun 4, 2010, 9:45pm Top

FicusFan,

Sorry, when I originally pushed this I had some problems and didn't notice that the Twitter preferences hadn't been pushed on "Edit profile -> Sites/apps". Like the Facebook feature it allows you to have the "Share on Twitter" checkbox on reviews auto-checked.

Both Facebook and Twitter are only hooked up to reviews right now. This functionality connected to reviews is written in a way that we can "sprinkle it" around the site and add sharing of other bits somewhat easily. There's more to come.

-Mike

284timspalding
Jun 4, 2010, 10:16pm Top

Mike: We should send out a profile comment to everyone who has Twitter as an also-on, and let them know about it. Also the people using the old Twitter code.

First, however, can we get the favicon working in the same way?

285ltmike
Jun 4, 2010, 10:38pm Top

Tim,

Yeah, working on that now, I've been pushing it off mostly because I had so much code in flux... I have that and a couple other things you've asked get done that I'm trying to check off tonight.

I might need to bug you with a database question when you have time.

-Mike

286ltmike
Jun 4, 2010, 11:03pm Top

StormRaven,

I think I got it. I reset your "Share by default preference" so that you'd be re-prompted to authorize (should be the last time). Would you mind trying again?

http://www.librarything.com/editprofile/sites

Out of curiosity have you changed which Facebook account you've been using or do you only have one?

-Mike

287StormRaven
Edited: Jun 4, 2010, 11:07pm Top

286: I'll give it a shot. I only have one FB account.

288StormRaven
Jun 4, 2010, 11:07pm Top

286: Tried it. It worked. Thank you.

289ltmike
Edited: Jun 4, 2010, 11:23pm Top

StormRaven,

Please keep me posted... I'm concerned because it worked before and stopped working.

I'm only happy when it works 100% no muss or fuss. Sorry that's it's been so flaky for you.

Update: Actually now that I've batted around my solution a bit in my head my confidence that it's really fixed is pretty high.

-Mike

290StormRaven
Jun 4, 2010, 11:17pm Top

289: If it stops working again, I'll be sure to let you guys know. I generally put out a new review or two every week, so if it stops it won't take long for me to notice.

291FicusFan
Jun 5, 2010, 7:58am Top

> 283 ltmike,

Thanks. It was on the profile. I was able to link up.

292susiesharp
Jun 5, 2010, 8:37am Top

I just tried posting my review to both FB & twitter it posted to FB but nothing comes up on Twitter I am very new to Twitter so not sure how it should work.

I just put twitter in my also on so if you've sent out that message #284 could you send me one too?

293timspalding
Jun 5, 2010, 10:14am Top

Yeah. I just tried Twitter and it didn't work. No Tweet and no message about failure.

294ltmike
Jun 5, 2010, 10:45am Top

Ah, I see the problem. In some cases the length of the tweet is not properly getting whittled down to 140 characters.

No message because I was weary of having any possible error come through in a comment. Instead I'm making unexpected errors come to me only. I might just let them all go through though because they are pretty user friends messages that come back from Twitter.

Sorry, fixing...

-Mike

295ltmike
Jun 5, 2010, 11:23am Top

Fixed. I thought that since you can type html codes into their web site (for ellipses) and they get smushed down to a single character that the API would do that also. I replaced the ellipses with three periods to make it work for now. I'll see if I can encode it somehow and to save 2 extra characters.

susiesharp, This only affected you and Tim. Would you like me to repost your review for you or do you prefer to do it yourself? Sorry it didn't work the first time.

-Mike

296susiesharp
Edited: Jun 5, 2010, 12:01pm Top

I'll try again
Thanks so much Mike!

EDT: It Worked!!Thanks for all your hard work!

297ltmike
Jun 10, 2010, 3:01pm Top

Hi all,

I pushed a bunch of new code today that should remedy most (hopefully all) lingering issues.

1) The authorization mechanism is simpler and less prone to errors caused by slippery javascript. Tim and I decided a simpler solution in this case would likely be less error prone. Now we do all authorization on the Edit profile -> Sites/apps page. Twitter/Facebook integration points for sharing now give you the opportunity to go to the profile and authorize if you want to use the feature (rather than trying to authorize you right there and then using a popup window).

2) The reviews going to Facebook now more clearly indicate that the review belongs to you. See message 209.

3) The Twitter/FB icons that appear on your reviews are now restored and work the same way as the check-boxy sharing.

4) One FB authorization screen rather than 3 steps (something new that FB lets you opt into)

5) I investigated dropping the "offline access" permission requirement and found the way we do sharing is incompatible.

Sorry these changes took so long. I spent most of the time trying to fix the old system then a very small amount of time replacing most of it with the new streamlined system.

My new motto: "Minimalism rocks!"

-Mike

298StevensHenagerIdaho
Jun 10, 2010, 5:36pm Top

i manage a FB page for my library and i have a personal FB account. i'd like the reviews to post to the library FB page. how do i do that?

299Heather19
Jun 10, 2010, 6:00pm Top

298: From my understanding, whatever FB account you link in your "also on" is the account it connects to with you give permission to post reviews. So put your library FB into your also on instead of your personal one, and it should work.

300ltmike
Jun 10, 2010, 6:14pm Top

StevensHenagerBoise, I'll look into it... when you manage a FB page do you log in with your personal account to gain privileges to manage the page or does it have a separate login?

Heather, it works independently of "also on" for now.

-Mike

301StevensHenagerIdaho
Jun 10, 2010, 6:23pm Top

geez, sorry... my name's rachel. i log in with my personal account. i used to log in with a separate email (my work) but i fubared that. perhaps i should change the admin email to one of my (many) other email addresses?

302timspalding
Jun 10, 2010, 6:33pm Top

My name's Rachel

A much more attractive name than Stevens Henager Boise.

303ltmike
Jun 10, 2010, 6:37pm Top

That shouldn't be a problem, was just trying to understand how Facebook pages work. Makes sense. I'll check to see if what you want to do is possible. -Mike

304StevensHenagerIdaho
Jun 10, 2010, 7:14pm Top

heheh. :-) so if i've already linked LT (SHB) with FB (personal), how can i change it?

305cvedovini
Jun 11, 2010, 5:22am Top

@StevensHenagerBoise ltmike

AFAIK the way FB connect is working right now it will always post to the connected person's stream (whether it's a personal or professional profile). Pages are never impersonated.
Until the FB publisher offer to post on administered pages, you'll have to post manually unless you use a dedicated application (shameless plug: try this: http://www.facebook.com/fbLibraryThing)

Mike, if you find different I am interested, because I also administer several pages and have the same problem :)

306ltmike
Edited: Jun 15, 2010, 12:33pm Top

301> Rachel

I added links for explicitly unlinking FB and Twitter accounts:

http://www.librarything.com/editprofile/sites

Now you can disconnect and then reconnect using whichever account.

301/305>

Facebook does allow publishing to "Page" walls/streams but they don't seems to allow the "offline access" permission for pages so I'm unsure we can activate it for our app. You might be able to get around it by authorizing our app by constructing a link like this:

http://www.facebook.com/connect/prompt_permissions.php?api_key=a4bb049ed7913918c...

You'll see a drop down so you can choose to authorize on behalf of your pages. I'm not sure how it'll work exactly... I'm thinking it may work fine unless you end up logging out of your Faceobook account. Let me know. (NOTE: you have to put your page's ID in the URL at the appropriate spot)

-Mike (mike@librarything.com)

UPDATE: The page linking URL wasn't quite right when I first posted it. It's fixed now.

307norabelle414
Jun 17, 2010, 9:57pm Top

It was working fine a couple weeks ago, but now whenever I click on "Read full review", it takes me to a blank page with a facebook heading and right sidebar. (Of course, the advertising works...)

308rosalita
Jun 17, 2010, 10:47pm Top

I just tested the most recent review I posted, and see the same issue that norabelle mentions. If it's any help, this is the URL that the "Read full review" link points to:
http://apps.facebook.com/librarythingbooks/http&?ref=nf#58;//www.librarythin...

309fugitive
Jun 18, 2010, 9:39am Top

No complaints. Posted my first review (automatically). Worked like a charm. Awesome power!

310cvedovini
Jun 19, 2010, 3:42am Top

ltmike

You don't need "offline_access" only "publish_stream" authorization and to post on a page you only need to replace the user uid with the page uid when calling the publish_stream method, but the problem is how to get this uid.

I guess right now you don't store the association and just take the current logged in user id from the FB cookie, right?

When users authorize an application they can be asked whether it is for their own stream or a page's (that's the url you gave), a callback url will then be called and then you can tell for whom the authorization is so that you can store the association between the page and the LT user.

HTH

311ltmike
Edited: Jun 21, 2010, 11:57pm Top

307/308>

When I view the log from when you both submitted it appears we're sending Facebook the correct URL. At the moment I'm tempted to think it was a transient problem on their end. Can you verify if the problem still exists?

310>

We prompt for the offline_access permission so we can avoid having to reauthorize members (potentially) every time they post a review. This permission is also needed if we choose to do any queuing of messages.

Facebook does allow publishing to "Page" walls/streams but they don't seem to allow the "offline access" permission for pages so I'm unsure we can activate it for our app... we could allow members to authorize for pages (and probably ought to) but it would require that we make the system work without the offline_access permission.

-Mike

312rosalita
Jun 21, 2010, 1:20pm Top

Mike, I re-checked the review that I posted about earlier, and the URL now points directly to librarything.com, rather than having the bits about apps.facebook appended at the beginning. So it's working just fine! Must have been a glitch on the Facebook side.

313ltmike
Jun 21, 2010, 2:00pm Top

312>

Cool, thanks for checking. I figured it was them because this "ref=nf" stuff is something that they add to URLs. Apparently someone FB fell asleep at the wheel while tweaking regular expressions.

-Mike

314rosalita
Jun 21, 2010, 8:29pm Top

313. They were probably too busy stealthily re-setting people's privacy settings. :)

315bookmonk8888
Jun 21, 2010, 9:52pm Top

>314 rosalita:

Amen.

Although I believe they rescinded a bit because of the uproar.

316rosalita
Jun 21, 2010, 11:13pm Top

@315. Actually, I was joking. I'm one of the (apparent) minority who doesn't feel threatened by Facebook's privacy policies.

317bookmonk8888
Jun 21, 2010, 11:31pm Top

>316 rosalita:

Rosalita, I love your portrait on your profile!! You are extremely beautiful.

318anglemark
Jun 22, 2010, 3:31am Top

What a wonderful picture: http://www.librarything.com/pic/3947

Where is it from?

319bookmonk8888
Jun 22, 2010, 3:37am Top

>318 anglemark:

I think it's a toss up for the primary pic and that one. Also, Rosalita, where is your primary one from?

320cvedovini
Jun 22, 2010, 4:28am Top

ltmike re. offline_access: well, my app is happily posting new books and reviews without requiring this permission :/

321jcopenha
Jun 24, 2010, 9:11pm Top

I'd really like the ability to edit the tweet when I tweet a review. In the previous system it didn't always get the title of the book the best.. and I prefer to start my tweets with "Just finished reading .." instead of "Read my review .."

322bookmonk8888
Jun 24, 2010, 9:18pm Top

Hi from Bradenton, icopenha.

323rosalita
Jun 24, 2010, 11:22pm Top

Sorry I've been gone for a while and missed the questions directed at me!

bookmonk8888: The painting is by Marcus Stone, a 19th century artist. I first came across it on a wonderful art blog called Lines and Colors.

anglemark: The anarchist librarian (that's just what I call her) is something that a librarian friend of mine sent me. I sent her an e-mail asking her where she got it, but haven't heard back yet. However, a Google Images search on "anarchist librarian" brought up a number of hits, so I think it's spread widely, although none seem to give credit to the original artist. Isn't it wonderful? (I look just like that, by the way, except I seldom wear high heels.)

324Cathynewton
Jun 26, 2010, 7:18pm Top

Is this the only way to share your lists with friends?

325bookmonk8888
Edited: Jun 26, 2010, 7:51pm Top

>324 Cathynewton:

If you enter a title or author in the Search Box on upper left after you first press Add Books, it will pull up a list of most editions of the book. You can find the edition you have and click to add it to your list. A very easy way to add to your list.

326jjmcgaffey
Jun 27, 2010, 9:32am Top

324> At the bottom of the catalog page is a little gray chain link that says 'Permanent link'. If you right-click and 'Copy link location' (or whatever IE/Safari/Chrome/? says instead of that - I use FF), you can give that link to anyone and they will be able to see your catalog with the filters (search) you have set at that point. You can also use the links for your Profile and Catalog that are on your Profile page. You can set a Recommended style that people can use to see your catalog, if you want to show particular fields (go into Edit styles, the cogwheel at the end of the ABCDE list).

Is that what you wanted?

327Mr.Durick
Jul 2, 2010, 3:12pm Top

Okay, I just reviewed Superstrings and Other Things. I was told in green that my review had been saved and posted on Facebook. I look at my profile on Facebook and don't see it. Similar circumstances have been posted above, but I thought it was fixed.

Am I doing something wrong? Is LibraryThing doing something wrong? Is Facebook doing something wrong?

Robert

328MrsLee
Jul 24, 2010, 8:37pm Top

I have a question about the integration. My reviews show up just fine on Facebook, but I've noticed that some folks' "just added" books show up as well. Are they in the Beta group for testing? I can't find anywhere to click to make sure my newly added books show up on Facebook. Those who do, have a little blue "L" by the post, rather than a pinky-brown one.

329carport
Jul 25, 2010, 2:19am Top

328> MrsLee, I am one of the users of Claude Vedovini's independent Facebook app for LT, which displays the little blue "L" by the posts. I've been very pleased using it, so have not yet tried the LT app. Here's its page on FB:

http://www.facebook.com/fbLibraryThing

330saltmanz
Jul 26, 2010, 4:02pm Top

I love Claude's app. I notice, though, that it hasn't been publishing review since Apr-May; that's fine, though, because I'm using the LT interface for that.

331carport
Edited: Jul 26, 2010, 4:34pm Top

330> I noticed that also, but assumed I must have turned off the review publishing option because when I first started using it, it was publishing duplicate copies of my reviews. So I never reported a problem to Claude. But, I've found that when I do, he's very responsive.

Edited to indicate that I found my recent reviews published on the LT tab of my FB page. Just never saw a notice about them posted to my profile.

332MrsLee
Jul 26, 2010, 7:30pm Top

Thank you, I had not seen that before. I did join it, for now, until this LT finishes all the integration it's going to do.

333StormRaven
Aug 3, 2010, 9:40am Top

I've noticed that in the last couple days a bunch of reviews that I published to my FB page a while ago are popping up again. Oddly, they are also popping up badly formatted. I'm not sure why this is happening.

334lquilter
Aug 3, 2010, 9:48am Top

Yeah, some of my older LT reviews have just appeared on FB. A bit surprising to suddenly have people saying, "I agree!" on FB when I had no idea what they were talking about ....

335TundraBooks
Aug 3, 2010, 11:46am Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

336ltmike
Aug 3, 2010, 11:48am Top

333/334>

Trying to figure this out. Did you resave these books/reviews or was it completely spontaneous?

-Mike

337saltmanz
Aug 3, 2010, 11:51am Top

336> Same problem here. It was completely spontaneous. In fact, the first one I saw was last night: it said "posted 15 minutes ago"... and I had just gotten home from my 45-minute commute!

This morning, the rest of my recent reviews posted themselves again.

338StormRaven
Aug 3, 2010, 11:56am Top

336: It seems to be spontaneous. I haven't recently edited or modified the older reviews that are popping up. I have posted new reviews recently, so it may be something that is triggered when I post a new review that is causing older reviews to pop up.

Like I said before, the further oddness is that the old reviews pop up without any formatting being carried over to FB, so they appear in oversize text, without the cover picture, without boldface or italic text, and so on.

339timspalding
Aug 3, 2010, 1:07pm Top

Mike is looking into this. I take this rather seriously. It should NOT be doing that.

340ltmike
Aug 3, 2010, 1:24pm Top

Turned the feature off while I sort this out. Hard to imagine how it could happen. -Mike

341ltmike
Aug 3, 2010, 2:15pm Top

Each time we publish to Facebook we log it and there doesn't seem to be entries corresponding with the periods where the phantom posting happened. It's turned back on now with some extra logging in place. Keeping an open mind and still thinking about this. Please report it if it happens again. -Mike

342StormRaven
Aug 3, 2010, 2:16pm Top

339: I didn't think it should, which is why I brought it up. :)

343StormRaven
Aug 3, 2010, 2:17pm Top

341: If it happens again in the next couple days, I'll let you know as soon as I see it. Otherwise, I'll be away for an extended weekend and won't be back at my computer until Tuesday, so the best I can do it tell you if any crop up when I get back.

344romula
Aug 3, 2010, 2:48pm Top

343> Just a thought, you're not using any other LibraryThing Facebook apps are you? I know there are some non-official ones out there and would want to eliminate that as a possible reason.

345StormRaven
Edited: Aug 3, 2010, 2:56pm Top

Okay, my reviews of The Reapers Are the Angels and Fantasy & Science Fiction: Volume 119, No. 1 & 2 (July/August 2010) just reposted on my FB page twelve minutes ago. I originally posted my review of The Reapers Are the Angels on July 28th, and the F&SF review yesterday. Hope this helps.

346saltmanz
Aug 3, 2010, 3:10pm Top

344> That was my thought, initially. Then I saw this thread, checked Facebook again, and saw that it was in fact the official app doing the posting.

347ltmike
Aug 3, 2010, 4:04pm Top

SO STRANGE! The block of code where we send reviews to the Facebook API did not get hit for StormRaven since I posted message 341. I'm trying not to give the idea that FB is screwing up much weight but it's hard not to consider it at this point... digging deeper. -Mike

348ltmike
Edited: Aug 3, 2010, 5:17pm Top

I turned it off again to see what happens. The possibility of becoming a FB spambot on behalf of our members is not something we want or need.

If FB is at fault we should see phantom reviews again while it's turned off. Again I have to discount that idea because it's unlikely but I can't completely rule it out.

Thank you to everyone here who seems to be handling this with such patience.

-Mike

349mckait
Aug 3, 2010, 5:31pm Top

It wouldn't surprise me to find it was FB. I love posting my reviews ( such as they are) on fb so friends and family can see and perhaps read what I have enjoyed. Not all of them participate at LT.

I hope it can go back on again soon.. Thanks for being on it !

350ltmike
Aug 3, 2010, 6:11pm Top

StormRaven, you said the formatting is lost on those reviews... anyone else have this issue? Anyone have a screenshot or would friend me so I can see? -Mike

351timspalding
Aug 3, 2010, 6:14pm Top

Mike needs friends!

353timspalding
Aug 3, 2010, 6:21pm Top

StormRaven,

I see both of them in the database for the dates you say. I just can't see how it would happen without updating that.

Can you look back in your feed and see if the ORIGINAL posting is till there in your feed? That would prove it was Facebook.

354cvedovini
Aug 3, 2010, 6:29pm Top

Hi all,

I think some of you are getting reviews posted twice because you are using the official LT app and my app to post reviews. Check the icons that appears beside the updates on your wall, they are not the same (mine is the little blue L).

StormRaven, for example, set the reviews to be published automatically using my application. Thus if you also publish them manually using the LT way, they will appear twice on your wall (with a different icon and a different formatting)

I discovered a bug two days ago that had prevented some reviews to be posted, the correction of this bug has triggered the posting of the last two unpublished reviews.

ltmike I hope you did not bang your head too hard on this :/

355timspalding
Edited: Aug 3, 2010, 6:32pm Top

I love you, cvedovini. I mean, this is annoying. But I'm so glad you figured it out—and it wasn't our fault. :)

356cvedovini
Aug 3, 2010, 6:39pm Top

@timsplading well, I know how it feels to have this kind of problem...
I'll take friends as well: http://www.facebook.com/cvedovini

357ltmike
Aug 3, 2010, 6:40pm Top

Cool, thanks cvedovina.

Would love for people who have had this problem to confirm the double post has difference icon, etc.

Also still wouldn't mind seeing screenshot of one of the duplicate posts.

-Mike

358timspalding
Aug 3, 2010, 6:44pm Top

Friends it is! (Passes a virtual beer.)

359saltmanz
Aug 3, 2010, 7:28pm Top

:facepalm:

Yes, it was the unofficial app. Hence my initial suspicions. But then I saw this thread, somehow tricked myself into thinking the blue icon was the official app, and... Gah.

360StormRaven
Aug 3, 2010, 8:10pm Top

354: Ah, I see the difference now. Thanks for all the help and sorry if I caused anyone extra work.

361lquilter
Aug 3, 2010, 8:51pm Top

.... ah. yes. well, umm, sorry about that.

so, how 'bout those northern lights. (tim, run out and see if you can see them!)

362carport
Aug 3, 2010, 9:20pm Top

For both the official and unofficial apps, I've noticed lately that FB seems to have lost its ability to represent anything but plain text from an unbroken line, without really screwing up the formatting. This happens with apps (such as LT's and Claude Vedovini's), but also when pasting text into a status box, or posting from other apps.

363cvedovini
Aug 4, 2010, 3:45am Top

Yeah, formatting support is peculiar...

I noticed that it is not the same depending on the way the updates are posted. Manually entering a status update, using the JS API or the REST API give different results

364mckait
Aug 4, 2010, 7:38am Top

yes, formatting is lost.

365ltmike
Aug 4, 2010, 9:42am Top

363> cvedovina,

It's annoying. We hammered away at formatting problems for a while too. In the end we pass on our formatting to Facebook and let them ignore it. You?

-Mike

366cvedovini
Aug 4, 2010, 2:00pm Top

mike

I was using a html2txt converter to get new lines right when I was posting the review in the status message field but FB was adding new lines of its own. That's why now in put the review in the description field where new lines are just removed.

This is not satisfying, at all, but this is the least worse...

Claude

367StormRaven
Sep 27, 2010, 7:57pm Top

For some reason, LT is once again refusing to post my reviews to FB.

368bookmonk8888
Oct 14, 2010, 4:06am Top

Anyone? What is the advantage of linking with FB except to show one's friends what one has added to one's library?

369Aerrin99
Oct 14, 2010, 10:49am Top

That is pretty much the advantage!

What happens from there is kind of up to your friends. I've had several facebook friends comment on my reviews and it's served as a way to rec books to them (or to anti-rec, as the case may be).

370StormRaven
Oct 14, 2010, 11:19am Top

I'll just point out, the FB posting system is still not working for me.

371cvedovini
Oct 14, 2010, 12:32pm Top

>370 StormRaven: Brown icon or blue icon?

I mean, do you expect the review to be posted automatically (by the virtue of you using this app http://www.facebook.com/fbLibraryThing) or do check the FB check box on the LT form when you post your review?

If it's the former you need to change your settings here: http://apps.facebook.com/xedarexu/settings/

C.

372StormRaven
Edited: Oct 14, 2010, 12:48pm Top

I check the FB check box, and my LT account is set up to link to the FB account. It was working for a while, then stopped. I haven't changed any settings. I have no idea why it stopped.

Both blue LT and brown LT have permission to post on my wall.

373cvedovini
Oct 15, 2010, 8:12am Top

>372 StormRaven: Blue LT only have the permission to publish your new books, not your reviews

I like how Blue LT is coming, I might rename the application after it :)

374fastaxion
Mar 27, 2012, 6:07pm Top

I would like to see that as well.. I don't review every book I read but I do rate it and would like the books I rate to appear on FB without a review having to go along with it.

375julie_e_meyer
Jul 25, 2012, 11:19pm Top

I would like to see book recommendations from Facebook Friends via LibraryThing and pass on my own. I haven't tried GoodReads, because I am committed here, but this sounds great to me: "The Goodreads app allows you to showcase the books you read on your Facebook Timeline, as well as your reviews and progress updates." Can you do that?? Please.

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