(Amy) I don't generally do this when I'm reading a book, but in this case, I left the thing littered with bookmarks to help me remember things I wanted to write about. See, the thing is, Weber's writing is clunky, awkward, and in places actively bad, and yet I can't stop reading his books. I can't quite put my finger on why they're so compelling despite their flaws, but I did isolate a couple of specific instances of sloppy writing that jarred me straight out of the story when I got to them. (Yes, this implies I am better at complaining than at bestowing praise. I think I have to own that flaw.)

But before I get into details on the things that bug me about Weber, I shall attempt to talk a little about this book in specific, though unfortunately, due to the way the events in this book build on the prior ones, there are some spoiler issues to deal with, for which I have employed good old rot-13.

In a very real sense, nothing actually happens. There are no sweeping plot developments (nothing like Pnlyro'f zneevntr gb Funeyrlna naq gur cer-rzcgvir fheeraqre bs Rzrenyq in the previous book, or the grand setup-movements of the first one) - and that's not particularly surprising. We've moved into the mid-game now, and things have to inch along for some time before they get into place for whatever the next dramatic action might be (my money's on gur bssvpvny qrpynengvba bs Ubyl Jne ol gur Puhepu naq gur svefg onggyr jvgu gurz qverpgyl, though at this rate that'll happen in book eight or something).

Which is not to say the book was boring. There's plenty of battles (including a land battle at long last) for those who read Weber for the gore and/or the technological self-congratulation. There's rather a lot of politics, for those who read Weber for the maneuverings and petty backstabbing. There's a bit more world-building-y stuff, and a lot of character development. And the plot overall may not have advanced much in large terms, but it never felt stagnant.

Perfunctory review having now been constructed, I'm afraid I'm going to go off on rather a long rant about Weber's use of language.

At one point, there are two adjacent paragraphs that contain the parenthetical phrase "(from the [x]'s perspective, at least)". I suspect this may actually have been deliberate, but while repetition of this sort works in poetry, and indeed in some kinds of well-crafted prose, dropping a repeated phrase in to prose this unassuming and colloquial is awkward, and caused me to stop reading and do a double-take to make sure I hadn't jumped back up to the previous paragraph by mistake. It's doesn't work as "repetition for emphasis" (for one thing, that usually requires more than two instances); it just reinforces my thesis of "many famous authors are inadequately edited".

A portion of a sentence from another section of the book: "(...) which meant you tended to kill quite a few of your own men if you tried something like that, and the infantry, for some peculiar reason, didn't much care for that." (emphasis mine) Ha, ha, cute. I could forgive an occasional instance of this sort of attempted irony in the musing of a viewpoint character, if a) it actually were occasional, and b) if it were only one or two characters. The fact that this is apparently the way the vast majority of Weber characters formulates thoughts is odd, to say the very least.

One more: "Somehow, sir, I can't quite find it in my heart to regret that. Odd, isn't it?"

I'm not going to quote any more bits, but I think the tools of sarcasm and self-deprecating humor are vastly overused in Weber's writing, and that they are largely without desired effect when so frequently employed. At least, I'm assuming that the desired effect is to create the impression that these characters are real and well-rounded, with senses of humor all their own. What it achieves is to help make them seem like caricatures, and to, in some cases, deeply erode the suspension of disbelief.

That last effect is also achieved by the oh-so-casual dropping in of 20th and 21st century Earth pop culture references, or Earth military history references of earlier vintage. It really oughtn't to have quite so drastic an effect (it's less egregious than when it happens in fantasy, for sure), given that this is indeed our future, and one character, at least, knows this perfectly well. Nonetheless, it does, and while I could speculate on why that is, it would be a rather substantial digression, and not really particularly germane to the point that they just plain don't fit.

I'm not, by the way, what I would previously have called a particularly demanding person in what I expect from my prose. 95% of the time, what I want from an author's use of language is not to notice it. I want to words on the page to serve as a portal to the story, and carry the plot without interfering with it. (The other 5% includes things like The Phoenix Guards, wherein the gorgeous use of language is a significant part of the point of reading the book.) I think perhaps the reason the awkward use of language in these Weber books bothers me so much is that the story on the other side of the page is pretty damned awesome, and I am irritated by having to use such an imperfect lens to look at it. The writing is not, as a whole, transparent. It's full of "aren't I so clever" bits, which are very disrupting to the flow of the story, as I perceive it.

I note, in the interest of fairness, that my husband disagrees with me on pretty much every point here, and to him, the writing of these books indeed does disappear and serve as a perfectly serviceable vehicle for the story. So maybe I'm pickier than I thought I was? I don't really know.

As a further caveat, I do want to repeat that I am really loving this series - and for the most part have enjoyed the Honor Harrington series, too, despite it sharing pretty much the same list of flaws. I think the above-listed items would bother me less were it not so, if only because if I hated them, I wouldn't keep reading them anyway, and if I only kinda liked 'em, I'd be bothered less by the interference with my consumption of plot.

But as a closing note, one truly egregious item of authorial cutesiness: There is a character in here named Nahrmann Baytz. Given the way names in general are phonetically re-spelled, I leave it up to the reader to determine why that one is eye-rolly.

( http://weblog.siliconcerebrate.com/ze... )

(Alistair) And here I am back with the Safehold books, with volume number three (one here, two here).

While I can't deny what Amy says in her comments on this particular book, in re Weber's use of language, I must say that it doesn't bother me nearly so much as it does her. For reasons that boil down to, well, this is a thumping good story, so while it would be nice to have less clunky use of language in spots - and the ever-present ironical thought style - it doesn't detract enough from the other elements of the book to really annoy me.

Still would be nice, though. Oh, and I share the eye-rolling at the character name, Nahrmann Baytz, once reverse-consonant-shifted.

My main complaint, such as it is, has more to do with it being a middle book. While it's not that nothing happens - we do, after all, have the Empress Sharleyan being introduced to The Stuff That's Happening Behind The Scenes, and the conquest of Chisholm (on which, it's interesting to see Weber writing land battles, for once), but it has the feel of a middle book, inasmuch as most of what's happening appears to frame setups for events that are yet to come, which is never quite so much fun to read about as the actual events.

It's a good, solid middle book, though, and I continue to look forward enthusiastically to the rest of the series.

( http://weblog.siliconcerebrate.com/ce... ) ( )

This book is one of those books you should not just pickup and read because I believe a person would be totally lost if they did. The third book in the Honor Harrington series continues the intrigues of Merlin a 500 year old mystic who is trying desperately to reverse the damage done to what is left of Earth culture. Good read..! ( )

OK, military fiction- and I'm not especially a fan of such. Still, though the characters are simplistic, the plot is nice and twisty, and i do like me a twisty plot.

I'm quite sure that any resonances between the 'godly" here and modern politics are completely accidental.

I do find the weird spelling of names annoying, even though I'm sure that's how Weber can call one kingdom's ruler "Norman Bates" and have it not immediately obvious! And it is probably not a coincidence that The Big Bad here's name transcribes to "Clinton," though I think it's a mite tacky.

Still, a fun read, and I'll read the next installment. ( )

Why is Weber ruining all of his series?

Let me reiterate that another way. David Weber has turned from writing could action paced, politically based stories to doggerel.

What is bad about this. Well the names are now distracting and logically stupid. Why have the names all be written in a way that you have to phoenitcally sound them out to figure out what they are, but every other word, noun, verb, adjective is spelled in english? So why are the titles of all these nincompoops not Rawk Hylynn for instance? Weber is too full of himself is why.

What else do we have wrong in these novels. We are really reading superhero comic books instead of Fantasy or Science Fiction. I think Weber wants an options deal from Stan Lee, or now from Mickey Mouse...

All of a sudden there is no death amongst the heroes... Without conflict there is no drama. See the commercial for it.

Our protagonists always win. Not only do they win, they do so by slaughter and stupidity.

Spolier

The Empress is attacked. She is so good that only a man who is wounded is put next to her to reload weapons, the reserve defense force is used all in, just like Texas Hold Em... Not a couple last men to stand with her. So the two last men from the last line before her, rush to the door and the heroic sergeant who Weber has put in at least three pages lives, but the other who has one of those horrid names that you slowed your reading for to sound out, dies of course, just as you expect, in the doorway, saving the other man. What black and white western did Weber watch before writing that, but then it is so cliche because there were so many...

Or worse, the world knows that the heroes have been making better weapons and have had months to know this and the spy system has been great for assassinations and church counter insurgency. But when the enemy army which outnumbers the heroes by a great deal meets up, the enemy are annihilated and the heroes not even wounded.

An army.

This was so in need of a rewrite. Weber obviously has a free hand and no editor to stop him, or no one that understands history or war. Which Weber certainly does not.

Sure he should have done damage to the enemy, but should have lost. Give the rest of the world some credit. Not everyone is stupid on the other side.

Citing contemporary sources, such as Churchill and Arthur C Clarke also do not make Weber a stronger writer. Here he has a universe set up thousands of years in our future, but the citations are from the decades that Weber grows up in. Talk of Gilgamesh and Churchill and some activity from the year 2300 AD to give it credence.

But then it wouldn't be Weber showing off that he knows a thing or two... Except he has forgotten how to craft the tale. And in a transitional book that you want full price for... Hey reader, let me rob you of your money.

So to read or not to read. If you haven't read this series stay away. If you are reading this series, find the book for free at the library. Weber doesn't need the money and he didn't give you a book that deserves it. ( )

The third book in another of Weber's endless series. As such, it's part of an ongoing story, with no real endpoint in sight (I would love to be surprised about that). For excellent world-building reasons, the personal names are all distortions of common English names (although some ought to be Chinese!). They're very distracting, though, and far too many of them have 'y's in them.

The planet of Safehold is at about an 18th-century tech level, kept that way by a powerful Church, one with a very corrupt leadership. Aided by a 900-year-old cyborg, the Empire of Charis is working on changing that.

Unlike most of this series, the major battle sequences are all on land, not naval battles. If you liked the others in this series, you'll like this one. If you like Weber in general, you'll probably like this series. But if you haven't read the first two books, for G-d's sake, don't start here! ( )