Zoe's 2011 Challenge, Part 1

Staking out my spot here.... This message will contain a cumulative list of books read; my list of 2010's memorable books has been transferred to message 3.

Books Read in 2011

January
1. Under the Banner of Heaven
2. Feed
3. Citizens of Nowhere: From Refugee Camp to Canadian Campus
4. Alcatraz Versus the Shattered Lens
5. $20 Per Gallon
6. *The Mysterious Howling
7. The Hidden Gallery
8. No and Me
9. Time in Antiquity
10. On Stranger Tides

February
11. Moon Over Manifest
12. Mesopotamia: Writing, Reasoning, and the Gods
13. The Children's Blizzard
14. The Postman

Books Acquired in 2011

Fun Reading
1. The Incorrigible Children of Ashton Place: The Hidden Gallery (ER)
2. Our Search for Happiness (LT member)
3. When the Stars Go Blue (SantaThing)
4. No and Me (LT member)
5. The Postman (LT member)
6. Nothing to Envy
7. The Belief Instinct
8. I Shall Not Hate (ER)
9. The Brothers Grimm: From Enchanted Forests to the Modern World
10. Native Tongue
11. Age of Bronze Volume 1: A Thousand Ships

Fun Reference
1. New England (Moon Handbooks)

School-Related
1. Time in Antiquity (ordered in 2010)
2. Magic and Magicians in the Greco-Roman World (ordered in 2010)
3. On Old Age, On Friendship, On Divination
4. Ancient Greek Divination
5. The Symptom and the Subject
6. Babylonian Oracle Questions
7. The Priest and the Great King
8. Mystical and Mythological Explanatory Works of Assyrian and Babylonian Scholars
9. Divination and Interpretation of Signs in the Ancient World
10. Philosophy of Mathematics and Deductive Structure in Euclid's Elements

Memorable Reads of 2010

Soulless by Gail Carriger (fiction, steampunk, supernatural, romance--heard about from beserene here)
Born to Run by Christopher McDougall (non-fiction, running--maybe discovered in the bookstore?)
His Majesty's Dragon (fiction, historical fantasy--family recommendation)
Victory of Eagles (fiction, historical fantasy--series continuation--I really like the first 5 Temeraire books, but these two particularly stand out)
Lips Touch: Three Times (fiction, YA, fantasy--heard about from allthesedarnbooks here)
The Unlikely Disciple (non-fiction, religion--heard about in Read YA Lit)
Facing the Lion (non-fiction, Africa--heard about in Read YA Lit?)
The Willoughbys (fiction, children's, satire--heard about here)
The Windup Girl (fiction, dystopia--heard about on booksmugglers)
Before I Fall (fiction, YA--heard about from stephxsu here)
Into Thin Air (non-fiction, mountaineering--bookstore)
Catching Fire (fiction, YA, dystopia--series continuation)
Room (fiction--heard about here)
The Mysterious Howling (fiction, children's, satire--heard about from avatiakh here)
The Day the World Came to Town (non-fiction, 9/11--heard about from sjmccreary and alcottacre here)
Doomsday Book (fiction, time travel, middle ages, plague--heard about here)

Select books acquired in 2010 and not yet read

Fun Reading
1. I've Got a Home in Glory Land
2. The Inimitable Jeeves
3. Thank You Jeeves
4. Voodoo Queen
5. On Stranger Tides
6. Shades of Grey
7. The Farseekers
8. Lips Touch: Three Times (already read)
9. The Sky Inside
10. Filthy Shakespeare
11. Into Africa
12. The French Blue
13. Rewired (abandoned--to give away)
14. Fortune's Journey
15. The Lives of Christopher Chant (already read)
16. The Various
17. Who's Your City?
18. The Willoughbys (already read)
19. Yes You Can!
20. The Clockwork Man
21. Pump Six and Other Stories
22. Euclid and His Modern Rivals
23. To Say Nothing of the Dog
24. The Mysterious Howling (already read)
25. Under the Banner of Heaven
26. The Last Camel Died at Noon
27. Lion in the Valley
28. Alcatraz versus the Shattered Lens
29. Young Miles
30. In the Bleak Midwinter

School-Related
see here

Heh. I guess the word's out...

Jim, you didn't think it was going to stay unnoticed for more than about six seconds, did you?

And it doesn't even appear in Search yet!

Take a look at the wiki and let me know what you think so far. I'm a rookie at this, so I'm still trying to figure out how to do things like move the table of contents to the side instead of inline with the text. Are you familiar with wiki?

Oh, the link's on the group page...

I use the wiki, but only in an amateur-ish way, so I don't know anything about pretty formatting. I think you're about at the same level as I am already. The one extra thing that I do know is that you can hide the links behind the text by putting them in square brackets, separated by a space: (http://www.librarything.com/topic/104699 Zoe's thread), for example--but with the square brackets that I'm too lazy to check how to show here.

Mercy! This place is hoppin'!

I should remember this moment, because it will never happen again: my thread has more posts than Richard's??

Things change every year...you just wait...I won't get so much as a "boo turkey" until May.

I predict it will be 7 days to the start of your next thread.

Less than that if I have to do it in the 2010 forum. I'm thinking of digging in my heels this time and just leaving it for the next 16 days, reviews and all.

Yeah, we've heard that one before ;)

I do tend to moan the same old dirge, don't I? b ut dadgummit! *This* time I **mean** it!

Stop laughing!

> 15 Sorry Richard, still laughing here!

Oh, and hi Zoë, glad you are here too.

Hi Zoe! Roll on January 1...

Hi Zoe - looking forward to 2011.

Hi Zoe, I like the way you started your thread with favorite reads. Room will definitely be on my list of memorable reads for 2010, but haven't decided on the rest yet. So many good books...

Hi everyone! It's always nice to see all the visitors at the beginning of the year.

Donna, I was surprised by which books ended up on my "memorable" list. There were some that I had rated 4.5 stars initially that didn't end up leaving a strong and lasting impression, while others that I gave only 4 stars still stand out in my mind months later. I just looked over my list of reads and went with my gut.

I went and got a copy of The Day the World Came to Town and now I can't find it! You AND Kath like that one...I thought the Universe would vanish and be replaced by something even weirder, but it hasn't, so I need to read it soon.

Along with 25,000 other books.

Ha, I love the concept of the universe vanishing and being replaced by something even weirder. But for some reason I can't visualize what that weirder thing would be. I hope the book turns up soon!

Zoe...Kindermaus...do not pretend to tell me that you have never read Douglas Adams' ouevre! It is the source of the Universe quote above...if anyone ever figures out the Meaning of Life, the Universe will vanish and be replaced by something even weirder!

You...you...just forgot, right? RIGHT?!? *desperate panting* It...it...can't be forgotten lit'rachoor, no no that's not it...*has fantods*

>23 richardderus: I'm almost afraid to answer, because the response might kill you: I read the first two, but stopped there because I didn't care enough to go on. They weren't very memorable ;)

Good evening, is this the thread of one Zoe? If so, please press one now. *boop*

This recorded message is to inform you of your *civil*liability* in the wrongful death by *cerebrovascular*accident* of one *Richard*

To pay your fine of *one*million*dollars* in United States currency by credit card, press one now.

Hi Zoe! I like your memorable book list! I picked up a copy of Soulless. My wife is reading it, very very slowly. I have a spanking new copy of The Windup Girl, which I hope to get to soon.
Into Thin Air is one of my all-time favorites. I also loved Room & Catching Fire.
See, we do have some in common.

*snort* Richard, I may just steal that one day.

#21: I liked that one too. I hope you find your copy!

Hey, Zoe!

#24: *whispers* I feel the same way; I read them all (once I start a series, it's verboten to stop), but the first two were by far the best.

Zoe - your thread is so easy to find on the Wiki - being dead last and all. Hmmm. I wonder if I should change my name to AAA something?

>25 richardderus: Richard, that post is brilliant. Fortunately it hit my answering machine, so I've avoided the million-dollar fine for now.

>26 msf59: Yup, I knew we had some common tastes! I'll look forward to hearing what you think of those books, especially The Windup Girl--it's gotten mixed reviews, but I thought it was fantastic.

>28 alcottacre: Hi, Stasia!

>29 scaifea: I think I've finally learned that I don't have to finish a series. When I read The Hitchhiker's Guide, though, I wasn't quite at that point, so I think I purchased all five books and just pretended I would get to the rest eventually. I'm glad to hear that I'm not missing much :)

>30 Fourpawz2: Hmm, it does have a certain ring to it... maybe "Aaaaaah!"?

I have to read The Windup Girl by Tuesday evening--guess I'd better get started!

Yes, definitely get started! I'm not sure how well it would go if you tried to rush it at the very last minute. The beginning especially is pretty dense.

#31 - That's a possibility....

Hello!! =)

Zoe, just a note to let you know I've set up a thread for "Future Women: Explorations and Aspirations" in the 2011 group. This is for the readings we talked about after reading The Postman in October, with post-apocalyptic or otherwise future views of women's role in societies. I'm not scheduling reading to start until February 1, but am letting people know so that they can star it and start acquiring books if they so choose.

http://www.librarything.com/topic/105210

Thanks for the note! I'm hoping to read at least some of the books. Ideally all, but I'm not quite convinced that will happen--I don't work well with a strict schedule. We'll see :)

Hi Zoe! How's Toronto? Still there? Are you having fun yet?

Toronto is great; despite New York's impressive Christmas decorations, it feels much more Christmas-y here where it's colder and there's snow on the ground. I had fun getting dinner with some friends last night and watching Miracle on 34th St. with my sister the night before, but it's almost time for my fun to end temporarily because the semester isn't actually done and I still have work to finish and submit electronically by Friday. Fun will resume on Saturday.

Some great looking books there for 2010!

Miracle on 34th Street!! Ye gods!! Edmund Gwenn is still my perfect Santa model, I must confess, but I haven't watched that movie in a long time.

I am so pleased you're enjoying yourself! Hope it gets even better.

Hey Zoe, greeting from Montreal! I was pretty sure I'd commented on your thread before, but just now realized I've apparently been a lurker. Hard to keep track of where it is I run into people these days. lol

>40 Kel_Light: Thanks!

>41 richardderus: To be honest, I can't recall whether I'd ever fully watched that movie before. I'd think I must have, but it didn't seem familiar. It's very rare to have a bit of time off actually before Christmas, so I've fallen out of the habit of watching Christmas specials. That will be rectified....

>42 Smiler69: I thought you had commented too--maybe in my 2010 thread? It definitely is hard to keep track!

Note to self: I plan to add a monthly summary of progress made in non-fiction books. Hopefully keeping track like that will give me a sense of progress even on the books that seem to take forever to finish.

I love your 2010 memorable reads list -- several of those were memorable for me this year, too. Looking forward to more! :)

zoe! happy holidays!

Thanks! Happy holidays to you too, and to everyone here!

Hi Zoe,

Have a wonderful holiday and a terrific New Year!

I loved supporting your LT causes this year (most of them, anyway) and will continue to join your battles far into the future. Let's make it a great 2011...

M.

Thanks Madeline! I've appreciated your support (and occasionally your urging me to see a different perspective), and I've absolutely loved participating in the TIOLI challenges this year. I'm sure 2011 will be fantastic.

Also, for anyone who's interested, my latest "cause" is persuading Tim to make the CK search results more accessible, especially with a view to generating best-of lists at this time of year. User eromsted heroically generated a manual list, which I love, but I think it's almost criminal that he had to go through thousands of works individually from the CK search, when LT could just automate the process.

Hi Zoe! *Waves*

Phew just dropping in to star your thread, see what's happening and let you know I will at least be lurking in 2011.

>50 Ape:, 51 Glad to see you both here!

I'm starting to plan my reading for next year, and already there are too many books I want to read!

1) I'm hoping to participate in Roni's Women group read, which means I should probably read The Postman sometime in January.

2) I'm going to be reading On Stranger Tides with Stasia and, I think, Roni in January.

3) I'm supposed to read some Faulkner for Richard's book circle in January.

4) I'd like to participate in the Beowulf read in January, though it seems like I probably won't have time.

5) One of my personal goals for the year (and this month's TIOLI) is to read books from this list of top-rated books published in 2010:

1. The Warmth of Other Suns
2. Unbroken
3. The Way of Kings
4. The Sky is Everywhere
5. The Lost Books of the Odyssey: A Novel
6. Nothing to Envy
7. Cleopatra: A Life
8. Room
9. Matterhorn
10. Nightshade
11. Revolution
12. Out of My Mind
13. The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks
14. The Big Short
15. Matched
16. Paranormalcy
17. Will Grayson, Will Grayson
18. The Invisible Bridge
19. Dear Deer
20. Clockwork Angel
21. Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years
22. Last Call: The Rise and Fall of Prohibition
23. Under Heaven
24. Packing for Mars
25. Feed
26. The Kitchen House: A Novel
27. WAR
28. The Lotus Eaters
29. The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet
30. Before I Fall
31. Just Kids

I like the three I've read so far, so it seems like a good source of ideas.

I'd *love* to read On Stranger Tides with y'all. I hear the next Pirates of the Caribbean movie is based on it.

>53 drneutron: Yes, it is, Jim, at least loosely, and it's been so long since I read the book I don't remember the plot at all! Do we have a starting date yet? I've got Sense and Sensibility mid-month, so I wouldn't mind starting On Stranger Tides earlier if people were ready.

We had originally said January 15 for a start date, but we could push it a bit earlier. I can't start before January 10, though, because I wasn't able to bring the book with me over the holidays (too many other books in my luggage!).

If you like zombies at all, I highly recommend Feed - one of my favorite reads from last year, hands down.

I'm not generally a huge fan of horror, but I'm happy to give it a try anyway. I'll move it up the list on your recommendation :)

It's not really horror - more post-apocalyptic political thriller. With blogging. And really, really, really fantastic characters.

Okay, you've persuaded me :D. I love post-apocalyptic. I've just requested it from the library, though of course that's never a guarantee that I'll get to it immediately.

Oh, strange, I saw "Feed" and thought you meant "Feed", and wondered that Zoë hadn't read it yet. There are far too many books with that title -.- (It should be a TIOLI next year, or something, to read different books with the same title.)

Speaking of, you have read the M.T. Anderson one? There's a scene where the protagonist visits a meat-food farm (literally: a farm that grows muscles with a bit of fat from cloned tissue) that is one of the most vividly eery things I have ever read, particularly in YA fiction. It's more cyberpunkish dystopic YA than post-apocalyptic political thriller.

#53: Well, since there are now 4 interested parties, should we start a group read for On Stranger Tides?

>60 keristars: Yeah, I've read the M.T. Anderson one, though I have to admit I didn't like it at all. I know it was sort of the point that the protagonist was completely unlikeable, but that just didn't work for me. Oh well; everyone else seems to enjoy it.

There's still plenty of time to add another TIOLI for January, if you're interested :). That woulld be a fun one.

>61 alcottacre: Sounds good to me.

#62: OK, Zoe. I will leave you in charge of the group read for that one. I am already doing the Austenathon :)

ETA: I did not care for M.T. Anderson's Feed either.

Zoe, I just finished Before I Fall and Will Grayson, Will Grayson and really enjoyed both of them. I have Room on my ereader, I hear great things but really how disturbing is it? I'm nervous to start it.

62, 63> I guess I was in high school when I read Anderson's Feed and if I'm remembering correctly, I thought the plot itself was pretty boring, but quite liked the dystopic universe, and several of the scenes were written in a way that I still remember them vividly, like the meat farm one. It was a fairly unusual and striking book at the time, with not much else like it on the shelves of the bookstore in the YA section.

But I used to own it, and haven't since before I started using LT, so I figure there must be some reason why I got rid of it, since I didn't really start weeding my books until after I began cataloguing them here.

>63 alcottacre: I don't know much about arranging group reads, but I'll at least start a thread at the appointed time and we can go from there.

>64 sydamy: Room is a lot less disturbing than it could be. Despite the setting, the focus isn't so much on the abuses as on creating something positive out of a bad situation. The five-year old protagonist doesn't know what's going on, and we see the world from his viewpoint. In many ways it's actually very uplifting.

>65 keristars: I can't remember the book well enough to articulate more clearly what bothered me about it, but I think I may follow your example and get rid of it eventually. Except I sort of feel like it's something I "should" have since I like YA dystopias, so I'll probably hold on to it for now.

I just want to add that I'm very excited for 2011! Lots of new group members and so many interesting conversations already :)

>67 _Zoe_: Indeed!

I was just thinking I'd like to put together some kind of list of things I'd like to read this year. I'd also like to read some 2010 (or recent, anyway) books soonish. I have The Kitchen House so will be looking out for when you get around to it.

I love making lists, as long as I'm not forced to stick to them ;). (So I should note that I don't promise to read all 28 remaining top 2010 books....). In previous years I enjoyed setting up long lists of books I planned to read for the 888/999/101010 challenges, but I found the challenges themselves too restrictive. Although now that I think of it, maybe I'll set up some 11-11-11 lists anyway, just for the fun of it....

I love making lists, as long as I'm not forced to stick to them

Amen!

(I am surprised that my planned 1111 categories are still unchanged as the New year approaches: I have no doubt that the categories I finish (assuming I do finish any) will be different from and probably broader than the ones I began. They certainly were last year and the year before...)

Starred!

Oh, I'm a list-maker too... but horrible at sticking with them. I think I might just like the action of making a list. Hmm. I failed miserably at the 101010 Challenge last year, so I'm not sure I'll bother with categories this year.

Happy New Year Zoe! Just sailing by to star your thread and wish you all the best for 2011. (I just came via the Birthdays thread and I note, for the record, that we are but a week apart ... it's fate!). May 2011 bring you good things and bookish delights!

Happy New Year Zoe! Hope you have a great reading year!

I definitely found that my 888/999 categories broadened as the year went on, though I still didn't end up completing either of those challenges (and I hardly even made an effort for 101010). So I've decided to start the new year's list-making with a potential Books Off the Shelf list, which I'll make tomorrow or the next day. I figure specific categories don't matter as much as getting through any books from my shelves, since my unread number seems to be at 785 right now....

>72 klarusu: Glad to see you here, Claire! I rushed off to the birthday thread to check whether you were before or after me, and I'm happy to report that you share a birthday with one of my closest childhood friends.

Happy New Year to all!

Happy New Year, Zoe!

Happy New Year!

Happy New Year, Zoe

I loved before i fall too! Have you read 13 reasons why? That book is amazing as well (:

>78 London_StJ: Heh, that was a surprise! Fun :)

>79 katelin1023: Nope, I haven't yet read Thirteen Reasons Why, though I've heard lots of good things about it. I really should get to it one of these days.

This one doesn't count because it's a picture book, but I'm listing it here because it's part of my goal to read from the list of top-rated books (although it turned out that the CK was wrong and it wasn't actually published in 2010... oh well).



Dear Deer: A Book of Homophones. I love the idea of this one, and the story and pictures didn't disappoint. I think it's a great book for kids who are curious about language (or whose interest in language we might want to foster), though it should be noted that I have no particular knowledge of picture books or early childhood education. Still, I think it's fun and look forward to reading it to my own children someday; since those children don't yet exist, I'll just foist it on other people's children for now.

Happy New Year!!!

For my own reference, I'm copying here the suggestions from my SantaThing page so I don't lose them when the page is wiped for next year. I was very happy to get so many good recommendations and need to make sure to leave thank-you comments for all the suggesters sometime in the near future.

Comments/suggestions

fyrefly98: I got Tooth and Claw from SantaThing last year, and thought it was great - and it matches the dragon books, the Austen, and the other fantasy of manners books that Zoe's got in her library. (Thu, 18 Nov 2010 15:28:59 -0500)

dfreeman2809: She might like Halfway to Heaven: My White-knuckled--and Knuckleheaded--Quest for the Rocky Mountain High by Mark Obmascik. It's not a widely-known book, but it's humorous, tragic, and exhilarating just like mountaineering itself! (Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:23:41 -0500)

angelikat: I think Zoe might enjoy Angela Carter’s The Bloody Chamber, I see that she has a few re-telling’s of fairy tales and this book happens to be my favorite in that genre. (Tue, 30 Nov 2010 20:59:31 -0500)

cbl_tn: Zoe has quite a few Nancy Drew books in her childhood books collection. I was a huge Nancy Drew fan as a tween. A few years ago I read a biography of the women behind the Carolyn Keene pseudonym/brand: Girl Sleuth: Nancy Drew and the Women Who Created Her by Melanie Rehak. It was a little uneven, with some parts more interesting than others, but I thought it was a worthwhile read. (Thu, 02 Dec 2010 20:21:02 -0500)

dulcibelle: I'm wondering if alternate histories by Harry Turtledove or S.M. Stirling would be appropriate? Turtledove has a YA series called "Crosstime Traffic". These do NOT need to be read in any particular order - the only thing that makes them a series is they all deal with the idea of parallel universes and travel between them. Turtledove uses this as a way to examine "what ifs" in history. I particularly enjoyed The Gladiator and The Gunpowder Empire.

Stirling has a series (that SHOULD be read in order) about what might happen if something caused all technology more advanced than gunpowder to stop working. The series starts with Dies the Fire. Both authors are very readable and thought provoking. (Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:29:38 -0500)

keristars: Because of the request for authors she hasn't tried before, and an apparent willingness to explore all types of Zoë, I really want to recommend one of my favorite books to her: Fantomina by Eliza Haywood. It's an early 18th century novella about an aristocratic woman who decides she'd like to experience the freedom of going masked, as prostitutes do, and does so. She's mistaken for a prostitute (naturally), and things proceed from there. But unlike many 18th century novels I've read, the title character isn't one of those wimpy, Bella Swan-types, and she isn't afraid to go after what she wants, nor does she let everyone else control her life (within the limits of early 18th century English society).

Not only do I think Fantomina is worth reading because it's simply a fun book (especially the Broadview edition), it doesn't seem that Zoë has read much from that period of English literature, if anything. If you're going to dip a toe into the water of early 18th century fiction, then you may as well go with a fairly dirty and also feminist book. (Fri, 03 Dec 2010 00:15:16 -0500)

Capybara_99: I'd recommend "The Years of Rice and Salt" by Kim Stanley Robinson for Zoe, based on her library. Alternate history, over the sweep of time -- I don't think it would run afoul of her admonition to to get historical fiction. The world if European power never recovered from the plague, and the power/influence vacuum was filled by Eastern cultures. (Fri, 03 Dec 2010 13:57:18 -0500)

avatiakh: I'm suggesting 'The Undrowned Child' by Michelle Lovric and 'The Outside Boy' by Jeanne Cummins. One's a teen fantasy based on the little mermaid tale and the other an old fashioned coming of age set in Ireland. (Fri, 03 Dec 2010 18:27:04 -0500)

susanna.fraser: Zoe, I hope you enjoy the books I selected for you. I looked at your recent reading and at the overlap points between my library and yours, and then picked three books I discovered this year and loved (though only one is a new release) that I thought might fit your tastes as well. And since all three books are different in genre and style, hopefully at least one will work for you! (Sun, 05 Dec 2010 00:00:38 -0500)

Happy New Year Zoe!

Some good recommendations above. My Santa was kind enough to send me a pm with all the other books she considered getting me but couldn't squeeze into the $25. Despite all the problems I really enjoyed SantaThing this year.

Yup, I was really happy with SantaThing too (and I don't even know what my third book is yet!). I think my favourite part was getting two extra Santees at the last minute, because I love choosing books for people.

Happy New Year to all! Thank you for the invite, Zoe, this group looks like I've got my reading "work" cut out for me this year - and if I'm to know what you all are talking about, I'll be well out of my historical fiction cocoon before too long!

Welcome to the group, Laura! I prefer to think of it as having lots of reading "fun" ahead ;). But the numbers don't matter that much anyway, we're mostly just here for the great community.

Happy New Year Zoe! It was my first year participating in SantaThing and I really enjoyed it. Actually signed up twice for double the fun. I got the books from one of my Santas last week and have yet to receive the other ones. Am dying to know if my Santees will be happy about my selections too!

Happy New Year, Zoe! Looking forward to another year of shared reading!

First book of the year is done!



1. Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer. I read this for Citizenjoyce's religion TIOLI challenge (though in what's getting to be a pattern for me, I finished it a day late), and I'm very glad that I did. It's an extremely interesting and readable book in its own right, and the reading process was improved by some good discussions that took place in this group, mostly in Jennifer's thread. I always find religious discussions a bit frightening because there's a serious risk of mortally offending someone, but I'm going to go ahead and say a bit about my thoughts on the book anyway.

First, let me acknowledge that this is a controversial book. Krakauer is an agnostic writing about religion-inspired violence, and it should be clear how that can create problems. His book is obviously biased by his own views, but I don't consider that as severe a failing as some people do. I've been exposed to some fairly extreme historiographical viewpoints over the past semester, including the idea that all narrative is fiction, so maybe that has led me to think that bias is inevitable and doesn't automatically negate the value of a historical narrative; the main concern is to identify the bias and keep it in mind while reading.

So, Krakauer's book is biased; I'm sure that a similar book written from an LDS or FLDS perspective would be equally biased in a different direction. I see the bias more as a missed opportunity than anything else; I would have liked to see some more presentation of other perspectives, particularly those of female Fundamentalist practitioners of polygamy who approve of the practice. We occasionally encountered one of these women in passing, but I would have liked a chance to get further into their heads--I guess I'll have to find another book for that.

Krakauer has also been accused of making numerous factual errors, and he does acknowledge some of these in a response to a critical review included at the back of the book. For example, he misinterpreted a respectful use of the term "president" to suggest that the person referred to was actually the LDS president, when in fact he was only one of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and he conflated the Laban of the Old Testament with the Laban of the Book of Mormon. These sorts of errors aren't particularly interesting to me, since they didn't have any impact on the overall narrative; the greater concern is the charge of serious misrepresentations of various historical events. Krakauer denies error in these cases, maintaining that this is simply a case of differing historical interpretations. As someone with no personal stake in the matter, I'm less concerned about the "correct" understanding of these apparently debatable events than about having a general awareness of what the different positions are, so I'm glad that Krakauer included a discussion of these things in the appendix.

I want to get one point across: I didn't come away from Krakauer's main narrative with any negative feelings toward Mormons in general. Krakauer made it clear that the crimes that played a central role in the book were committed by fundamentalists who had been excommunicated from the mainstream church. However, I was extremely unimpressed with the high-up church official who reviewed the book (a review that Krakauer includes in the appendix before addressing the various points it raised) and made the following statement: "Although the book may appeal to gullible persons who rise to such bait like trout to a fly hook, serious readers who want to understand Latter-day Saints and their history need not waste their time on it." That one sentence attacking readers of the book has done more harm to my impressions of Mormonism than an entire book about the connections between Mormonism and murder.

I look at history as a process of inquiry. The goal isn't to present one undisputed truth, which is generally impossible, but to investigate the different perspectives with their inherent biases and at least gain some understanding of how different observers view the same events. I'd be happy to read another book about Mormon history from an approved Mormon viewpoint as a counterpoint to this one. I am not happy to be told that I'm an idiot for finding anything of value in Krakauer's book. While Krakauer may not provide all the answers, he at least offers interesting questions, which alone is enough to make this a worthwhile read. I was struck, for example, by the question of whether a religious fanatic could be guilty of murder or should be considered insane, which has all sorts of implications for how the courts view religion in general.

In brief, Krakauer's book gives the reader plenty to think about. It generates good discussions. It's readable and interesting. This is exactly what I want in a book. I don't see this as the definitive portrayal of Mormonism, but since it left me with a curiosity about the religion that I didn't have before, I'd say it's a decent starting point.

Thanks for all the great comments regarding your first read of the new year. Welcome back! So good to see you! By the way, I just finished a YA book that is incredible. You might be interested in Mara's Stories.

I'm glad you appreciated the comments. It always makes me so nervous to say anything related to religion, because I'm sure I'll end up offending someone. But the great discussions in this group really made me think about the issue, so I ended up having a lot to say.

You've said so many good things about Gary Schmidt that I definitely think I should give him a try. I'm especially intrigued by your comment that this one weaves together stories from several very different sources.

Zoe, I thought you expressed yourself very well in that review. The book has been on my TBR list for a few years now, but I haven't got around to picking it up... but the recent discussions in the group (which you mentioned), and your review have enticed me once again. I know it's at the library so I'll definitely grab it next time I'm there.

#90: Zoe, I agree with your assessment in general. I also did not come away with a negative impression of mainstream Mormonism but thought the response from the church official was disproportionate and a little odd.

Hey Zoe - great review. I love what you say about identifying bias and moving on. That could certainly be applied to many things we read. For what it's worth, as perhaps the lone representative here of the LDS church, I am not at all offended by your opinion. I also really appreciate your (and others) willingness to read additional material about LDS beliefs.

I'm thinking I completely missed the review by a LDS church leader in the Appendix. Now I am curious LOL. I will say that while I was bothered by the factual errors and misinterpretations of my beliefs and the history of my church, I couldn't find the energy or desire to be offended. Just like any group, readers will respond in different ways. It is really difficult though, to read things about people you respect that are really false and libelous, not just "differing historical interpretations" as Krakauer puts it. Some of his information is definitely subject to interpretation, some really is just wrong.

Bottom line, as you say, like the book or not, it has generated some incredible discussion and it has been well worth my time to participate.

Phew! I'm so relieved that you aren't offended. I've really appreciated your willingness to clarify various points, offer suggestions for future reading, and just generally create such a great discussion around the book. It wouldn't have been the same trying to discuss the book without an actual LDS member participating.

Depending on what edition of the book you had, maybe there wasn't even an appendix. It's called "Appendix to the Anchor Edition".

Thumbs up for your review, Zoe. Great job!

bias is inevitable and doesn't automatically negate the value of a historical narrative; the main concern is to identify the bias and keep it in mind while reading.

Zoe, I was over on Jenn's thread and took her advice to come over and read your review of Krakauer's book Under the Banner of Heaven. I thought you did an excellent job and particularly agree with your statement above.

I've really been impressed with the discussions on religion in connection with this book. They've all been intelligent and respectful. My father, who was an atheist, used to love getting into discussions (arguments, really) with religious people about why he was right and they were wrong and it has made me shy away from the topic in general. It's been so great having a civilized example of how to discuss beliefs here on LT thanks to you and Jenn and the others that have participated in these discussions the last month or so.

Fair and insightful comments on the Krakauer book, Zoe, and I agree with you entirely regarding bias.

I'm not a fan of Krakauer in general, but now this one intrigues me...

>90 _Zoe_:, I loved Under the Banner of Heaven and I'm glad you found it thought-provoking.

I love how Zoe in her review, and everyone who's commented since, have created such a thoughtful discussion of what can be a really divisive topic. Under the Banner of Heaven partially inspired me to write my undergraduate thesis on Mormon woman suffrage (Utah granted it way back in 1870, only to have it outlawed by Congress in an 1887 anti-polygamy bill). It took me basically the entire semester to strike the right balance between an anti-polygamy/Mormon bias and a "but they were giving women rights!” bias, so I definitely appreciate how much more difficult it must have been for Krakrauer, trying not to mortally offend either side.

Congratulations on the hot review!

Thanks for all the nice comments, everyone! I love this group.

I'm thinking of starting a What Are You Reading: Religion thread because I've enjoyed this discussion so much.

On a completely different topic, I'm copying here the current list of this group's 2010 favourites; I'll try to make progress on these as well as on the sitewide highest-rated:

Nonfiction
The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks
84, Charing Cross Road
My Reading Life
On Hallowed Ground: The Story of Arlington National Cemetery
Packing for Mars
The Devil in the White City
Mountains Beyond Mountains

Fiction
Bury Your Dead
Room
Harry Potter (series)
Middlemarch
Fingersmith
Major Pettigrew's Last Stand
Wolf Hall
Cutting for Stone
The Lacuna
The Imperfectionists
Soulless
The Doomsday Book
The Elegance of the Hedgehog
The Graveyard Book
The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society
The Help
Matterhorn
The Picture of Dorian Gray
Shades of Grey
The Siege
Troubles
The Uncommon Reader
Where the Mountain Meets the Moon

#103: You copied the list here, Zoe, and in my brief perusal, I just realized I have read them all. What am I going to read now? lol

#104 The other 10,000 books in the black hole?!

I like the striking through of books on the list to show which ones you've read, I may copy that.

I agree that sometimes it is hard to comment on religious topics, especially in a forum where people may not realize the spirit of your words and see them in the wrong light.

I very much enjoyed your comments on Under the Banner of Heaven and have added to my list of non-fiction to pick up this year. I also agree that I think it would be interesting to follow up with a book written and approved by the Mormons to compare the two points of view.

#105: You would think of those, Heather!

Zoe, I think a "What We Are Reading: Religion" thread would be great. Aside from the discussion, it might help fill up the religion categories in the Dewey challenge!

I concur with the "What We Are Reading: Religion" thread. There seem to be many people in the group who enjoy reading books in that vein, so I can see an interest there. Or maybe we could expand it to 'Religion & World Issues', since they go hand-in-hand sometimes? Or maybe that would be too broad a category. Either way, I'm sure I'll have some books to contribute.

Okay, I've gone ahead and made a religion thread here. I'd definitely be interested in a world issues one too, but I figured I'd stick with the more focused one for now.

Oh, and Stasia, I'm very impressed that you've read all those books already!

#111: I am amazed by it! Normally there are at least a couple that I have not been able to get my hands on.

>103 _Zoe_:: Great, I've added half a dozen more books to my online wishlist thanks to that reposting, Zoe (I'd only read 11 of the titles listed).

Thanks a lot.

:)

>113 beserene: You're very welcome :D

2. Feed by Mira Grant. I read this one because it was on the top-rated books of 2010 list (and also counts for the corresponding TIOLI challenge). It's a sort of dystopian YA novel set it a world full of zombies, where blogs have become an important source of news after the traditional media outlets proved during the zombie outbreak that they couldn't be trusted. It's also in some ways a political thriller.

I finished it last night, but I still haven't decided what I think of it. I found that it got off to a pretty slow start, but once things starting happening there was a lot of excitement, and some scenes were very powerful. But I'm troubled by one part near the end when someone acts strangely out-of-character at a key moment, with terrible consequences, and yet doesn't seem to be held at all responsible for what happens. That alone has taken half a star from the book's rating, because I feel like there was no satisfactory resolution there. Of course, this is the first book in what's probably going to be a trilogy, but I don't think that's a good enough excuse.

That said, I do think the book is very memorable; it's maybe not strange that I'm still thinking a lot about it the next morning, but I suspect that it will stay with me much longer.

Whew! Caught up with your thread, Zoe. I have a day at home and am spending way too much time on LT. This afternoon will be spent reading...lazy me!

I too liked Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven despite the controversy. I think books that inspire conversations like those here and on Jenn's (nittnut) thread are the best kinds of books. I had no idea that Jon-Boy was so biased until I read the comments. Still, I'm with you, it was about LDS Fundamentalists, and we certainly can't judge the mainstream church by the actions of a few. I know quite a few Mormons and they make the best friends!

I'm looking forward to seeing what else you'll be reading - and talking about- this year.

>115 _Zoe_: - I seem to remember a number of people talking about Feed on Stephen's thread late last year.

I have a problem with inconsistencies in character development, especially when it occurs simply to further the plot; it always seems like poor planning and weak writing. I'm glad the read was at least memorable, but I think I'll skip that one by.

>115 _Zoe_: - I've had me eye on that one for awhile now. On to the wishlist it goes!

Feed does not sound like my kind of book. I kind of have to avoid zombies just for purposes of restful sleep...

I am liking the idea of reading some of the 2010 group favorites - great idea.

>116 Donna828: I think reading is a very worthwhile way to spend the afternoon!

>117 London_StJ: Thanks for pointing that out! Stephen's threads regularly move too quickly for me to keep up.

>118 tapestry100: I hope you enjoy it! I'll look forward to seeing your thoughts. Almost everyone seems to have liked it more than I did, and it's very highly rated.

>119 nittnut: The zombies actually aren't too bad. I don't generally read horror, and I don't think this one really counts as horror either.

I was happy to see how much of our best-of-the-year list was already on my wishlist. I should have some good reads ahead of me.

3. Citizens of Nowhere: From Refugee Camp to Canadian Campus. This was a very interesting look at 11 mostly Somali students who had been living in refugee camps in Kenya until they won scholarships to Canadian universities. It describes their first year of study, including the major adjustments that they had to make. They had left behind their families and the whole world that they knew, and were suddenly living in a completely different culture. Compounded with all the basic pressures of first-year university was the knowledge that they needed to succeed and start making money as quickly as possible so that they could help out the family members who had been left behind. There's also a fair bit of information about the political situation in Somalia, which I had previously been entirely ignorant of.

I love books about people adjusting to new worlds, so I thoroughly enjoyed this one. Almost my only complaint is that the author tries to cover too many different students; it's just not possible to do justice to the stories of 11 different students in such a short space while still trying to explain the background of the situation. I sometimes found that I had lost track of who was who, and I was left wanting a more complete version of their stories. I hope some of them will eventually choose to tell their own stories themselves.

Still, this was an interesting overview and the pages went by quickly. I would recommend it if you're interested in the subject.

Book #3 sounds very interesting Zoe.

#121 Out of curiosity, which Canadian universities?

>122 Whisper1: It definitely is, Linda.

>123 MickyFine: Hmm, a test... There was at least one at each University of Toronto campus (the one downtown was at University College), one at Mount St. Vincent, two in Saskatoon (I don't even know what university that was), one in Brandon (again, can't remember the school), I think one at UBC, one in London but not at Western... and that still leaves two unaccounted for. Maybe another at U of T downtown? Some of the stories were more fully fleshed-out than others.

#121: Nice review, Zoe! Adding the book to the BlackHole.

Thanks, Stasia! It always feels like a great accomplishment to get a book added to your BlackHole, since you seem to have read or at least know of most books already :D

I think I already have Feed on the list... though it's too bad to hear about the out-of-character moment. Things like that frustrate me the most, and I wonder why an editor didn't catch it and mention to the author that she might want to tweak it. Maybe there's a good reason for it, but moments like that tend to ruin an otherwise perfectly good book. Oh well, I'll still read it sometime.

I'd also like to read Citizens of Nowhere. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who wrote Infidel and the book I reviewed in December, Nomad, was born in Somalia, so there's a little bit about it in her books but not a whole lot. Either way, the place sounds like a bit of a nightmare (very dangerous) so I'd love to read about others' experiences transitioning away from there.

I'm hoping plenty of other people will read Feed, because I'd love to discuss it. I keep wondering whether I was just missing something.

So many good books to read.... I need to start planning out what books I want to get to in the near future, because there are just too many.

Matched (hold just came in)
Nothing to Envy (hold just came in)
On Stranger Tides (group read)
The Mysterious Howling (to reread before reading sequel)
The Hidden Gallery (just won in ER)

Zoe, what's the timetable on On Stranger Tides? I've got two other group reads coming up and need to do a little planning myself. When do we start?

move too quickly for me to keep up.

Can't help it! :(

I'm still planning on reading Feed sometime. Maybe this year...perhaps... ...

I think I'm going to pick up Feed again - I can't recall a moment that jumped out at me as out of character, although I'm sure I know the consequence you're talking about. ;) I'll see if I spot it what you're talking about.

>130 ronincats: The initial plan had been to start reading on January 14, but I think some people had wanted to move it up a bit, possibly starting on January 10. Either way is fine with me. I don't know how much time everyone will want for reading; maybe we should just set the discussion to start on February 1 and let people read at their own pace sometime in the middle/end of January?

>131 Ape: Don't worry, lively threads are a good thing! I enjoy the parts that I read.

>132 Aerrin99: That sounds like a fun plan :D

Citizens of Nowhere looks great. I'm adding it to my wishlist.

>124 _Zoe_: Not so much a test as curious to see whether my university would make the list. :D

>135 carlym: I hope you enjoy it as much as I did!

>136 MickyFine: Don't worry, I didn't think you really meant it as a test ;)

For the On Stranger Tides read, I realized there's at least one more group read starting on Feb. 1, so that's probably not a great day. How about January 28? That would give exactly two weeks of reading time if we start on January 14.

I enjoy your reviews Zoe. Keep on keeping on! :-)

Thanks, Ilana!

**Oh, no, I should have stayed away - my list wouldn't be growing if I'd stayed away, DARN!**

Happy New Year, Zoe!
I'm slowly working my way through all the new threads (alphabetically) and have finally arrived late at your party. Now I have more books to add to my "investigate" list thanks to your lists.

Hope you are taking care of yourself, staying warm, and cozying up with some good books.

#137: Sounds good to me, Zoe, although I may start it a few days earlier. I have 2 other group reads beginning January 15th.

I'll probably keep Feed on hold for a while, maybe wait till I hear comments about her next book.

I'm slipping through, waving hello......

Nothing to Envy looks really interesting. Thanks for the recommendation.

>128 _Zoe_: Zoe, I'm just curious is the incident you're talking about in Feed at the party with Senator Ryman and Georgia?

>145 Tanglewood: Yup, that's the one I was thinking of. What did you think of it? I'd be happy to hear explanations for how it wasn't weird, so that maybe I could revise my impressions of the story.

>144 Deedledee: You're welcome!

>143 sibylline: Hi!

>142 avatiakh: I think I'll probably read the next book eventually, though not as soon as it comes out--I'll wait to see the reviews.

>141 alcottacre: That works for me, Stasia. I'll start a thread in the next day or so.

>140 cyderry: Hehe, my evil plan! ;). Glad to see you here, Chèli.

4. Alcatraz Versus the Shattered Lens by Brandon Sanderson. This is the fourth of Sanderson's Alcatraz books, and I had quite enjoyed the series up to this point. It's silly light fantasy with some interesting world-building behind it. Unfortunately, this time I found that the attempted humour fell flat far too often and detracted significantly from the story. There was one recurrent "joke" that I absolutely couldn't stand; it wasn't funny the first time and it certainly wasn't funny the twentieth time. If I never see the word "stoopid" again, it will be too soon. Blech.

There were admittedly some laugh-out-loud moments here, but they were sadly outnumbered by the idiotic moments of an unfunny joke continued far too long.

That said, I'm definitely planning to read the fifth and final book of this series when it's eventually released. I really do like the world that Sanderson has created, and I want to know how the story ends. I just hope that the books will either become funny again or stop trying.

I've only read the first Alcatraz book and I found it really funny. I'm sad that you were disappointed with this one. When I eventually get around to reading the rest of them, I'll see if I'm as disillusioned as you were.

>148 MickyFine: It was really just the one ongoing "stoopid" joke that ruined the whole book for me with its un-funniness. I kept being pulled out of the story and annoyed. I hope you like it more than I did, and I'll look forward to seeing your thoughts. I did like Alcatraz 2 and 3, so you have some good reading ahead :)

Also, for anyone who's interested in the group read of On Stranger Tides (by the author of The Anubis Gates, and apparently the basis for a Pirates of the Caribbean movie), I've set up a thread here. Reading will start in a couple of days and discussion in a couple of weeks.

I only read the first book in Sanderson's Alcatraz series. I do not see myself reading any more soon since I would have to buy them.

My husband read the latest one and said it was the most insane installment of the series yet... he didn't mention the "stoopid" joke, so I wonder if it bothered him or if he didn't even notice? I'll get to it soon enough. I like insanity, but I'm wary of jokes that run far beyond their allotted moment of humor.

>150 alcottacre: Maybe your library will get them soon... we can always hope. I did enjoy the second and third ones. I actually bought the fourth one because I wanted to support the series; Scholastic only purchased the first four and the story is now incomplete with no contract for the fifth one (although he'll finish it eventually regardless).

>151 dk_phoenix: Maybe I just have an unreasonable abhorrence of misspellings. Every time I saw that word, I had to stop reading and grind my teeth for a while.

Maybe I just have an unreasonable abhorrence of misspellings. Every time I saw that word, I had to stop reading and grind my teeth for a while.

You're not the only one! Maybe not "stoopid", but there have been similar things in other books that have irritated me to the point of not continuing a series because of it.

The first book has a review by SouthernKiwi which says "Part of the cleverness of this book was the way it is was set up. From the beginning we readers are not supposed to like Alcatraz." - I wonder if that continues throughout the series, and if "stoopid" is part of it?

>153 keristars: That's an interesting idea. I wonder whether we're really not supposed to like Alcatraz? The conceit of the books is that he's writing his autobiography to give the "real version" of events and show that he's not really the hero he's made out to be, but instead often did heroic things through dumb luck. I still find him quite a likeable character, though, because he's not actually malicious; even if he doesn't always plan for his heroic escapades, it's not like he's deliberately harming people either. He's just a relatively normal guy, which includes not being perfect, sometimes being selfish, etc.

So yes, that does tie into the "stoopid" thing--but not in a way that makes any sense, which is part of my problem with it. The fact that he sometimes makes bad decisions that could harm a lot of people doesn't make him too stupid to spell the word "stoopid", as he claims; there's absolutely no connection between the two.

Meanwhile, I finished another book that I enjoyed a lot more:



5. $20 Per Gallon by Christopher Steiner. I first heard about this one when it was offered for ER and I bought myself a copy at the end of 2009, but for some reason didn't get around to reading it even though it's the kind of thing I always like. The recent Pro and Con discussion about the consequences of $5 gasoline reminded me of it, so I finally got around to picking it up. It was exactly what I wanted: lots of interesting and positive ideas about how increasing gasoline prices can change our world dramatically for the better. I think I pushed through it a bit too quickly because I'm going away this weekend and didn't want to bring along a hardcover book with only 50 pages left, but I still enjoyed it; it's written in a very readable style and the content is very satisfying. Recommended.

I'm glad to hear that the end of cheap oil isn't necessarily the end of civilization. That goes into the Someday Swamp.

I am also adding $20 Per Gallon. I've been thinking about reading it - good to hear it's readable :)

>155 swynn:, 156 I'll look forward to hearing what you both think of it. I think this one could lead to some interesting discussion; some of the reviews on Amazon definitely made me think. It seems like people enjoyed the book or not depending on how much their views agreed with the author's, which I suppose isn't really surprising. At least one person said they found it extremely negative, whereas I thought his vision of Wal-Marts closing, people buying less disposable junk and instead paying more for well-made and lasting products produced in the United States rather than China, buying locally-produced food, etc. etc. was extremely utopian.

And another book:



6. The Mysterious Howling by Maryanne Wood. This was a reread, because I just won the second book in this series from ER and wanted to make sure the story was fresh in my mind. I should note that this is extremely rare for me; I hardly ever reread books these days, and certainly not within six months of my initial reading. So it's a testament to how much I liked this book that I was willing to reread it again so soon, and maybe partially also a result of the fact that I've been reading more books lately and therefore feel I have a bit more leeway in my reading.

Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed this book again and am sure I'll eventually read it a third time. I'm looking forward to finding time to really dive into the sequel.

Zoe: YA and children's books are pretty new to me so I'm picking up recommendations left, right and centre! Have added The Mysterious Howling to the WL, thanks!

Oh, lucky you, I'll have to make sure my library gets the second book. I loved this one, such a great book for children.

I wish my local library had The Mysterious Howling. It looks good!

I've been looking at The Mysterious Howling for ages now. I think I May have to breakdown and buy it.

And I've yet to try the Alcatraz series, but I've heard good things about the first couple of books, so I'll have to check my library for those.

>158 Smiler69: Ilana, you'll definitely find lots of good children's/YA recommendations in this group!

>159 avatiakh: I agree! I hope it will become as popular as A Series of Unfortunate Events.

>160 alcottacre: Can you encourage them to get it? The paperback should be released soon, if it hasn't been released already, so they might be more likely to buy that.

>161 tapestry100: I definitely think The Mysterious Howling is worth buying; I got my own copy after reading it from the library in September, and I don't regret it at all. I'm sure I'll be reading it again in the future, and I'll push it on my family as well once I'm willing to let it out of my possession.

Meanwhile, I read the sequel as well:



7. The Hidden Gallery. This is the sequel to The Mysterious Howling, which I loved when I read it last year. I didn't think The Hidden Gallery reached quite the same level as the first, but it's still an entertaining book and the series as a whole is one that I'd wholeheartedly recommend. I just found this installment a bit frustrating because for about the first two-thirds of the book, no progress at all was made towards resolving the various mysteries that had been introduced in the first one, and even when certain pieces of information were revealed toward the end, we were often left with more questions than answers. One the one hand, this is a good thing because it means that the series can go on longer, and I do enjoy reading about these characters. On the other hand, I'd like the main plot lines to progress at least a bit more in 300+ pages. Maryrose Wood can certainly write a tantalizing story, but in the end it felt like we hadn't gotten very far. Still, Wood remains one of my favourite new authors, and I'm eager to see how the story unfolds in the coming books.

The Incorrigible Children series sounds great. My library has the first book so I'll check it out.

Usually when it comes to series, I like to start with the first one, and in this case based on your review it seems well worth it. But if I like it and feel like I want to continue, again based on your review, I'll probably wait till there are a few instalments with good feedback before deciding if I want to continue or not.

Hi Zoe! Just popped by to say hi! I'm in the 75 book challenge too -but trying to find people in the threads is quite a challenge in itself!:)

>163 fabtk:, 164 I hope you both enjoy the first one as much as I did! It makes sense to give it a try and decide from there whether to continue with the series. But be warned, there's a lot left unresolved at the end of book 1.

>165 vancouverdeb: Glad you came by! It can definitely be challenging navigating your way around this group. I don't know if you know about the wiki? It can be helpful if there are particular people you're looking for.

The Mysterious Howling sounds really interesting - onto the wishlist it goes!

Oh, good! I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

I'm looking forward to the next instalment, I loved book 1 too. She also wrote The Poison Diaries which is based on the public gardens at Alnwick Castle in Northumberland (Harry Potter broomstick scenes were filmed at the castle). I visited the castle when I was in the UK a couple of years ago but didn't have time to visit the gardens.

I'm definitely going to look for The Poison Diaries. I'm surprised that it has such a low rating, but I'm willing to give this author the benefit of the doubt.

#169/170 -- I read The Poison Diaries and enjoyed it, but it doesn't have the spark that The Mysterious Howling does. I didn't find it as memorable. It's still worth reading, though! (And if I ever get a chance to visit Northumberland, those gardens will be on my list of things to see.)

>171 foggidawn: I'll aim to get it from the library, then. I wonder how quickly she'll continue that series, considering how much more popular the Incorrigibles books seem to be. I know I'm hoping she devotes all her time to Incorrigibles books, anyway.



8. No and Me. This is the story of a genius thirteen-year-old who decides to take in an older homeless girl off the street. It's a powerful book, but not at all what I was expecting: I had thought it would be a very positive story about how individuals can make a difference, but it's actually very bleak. Bringing the girl in off the streets doesn't automatically solve all her problems, which of course reflects reality but doesn't always make for an easy read. I'm glad I read this one, but I don't know if I can quite say that I liked it. I think it would make for a great book club discussion.

Also, I've realized how rarely I read fiction translated from other languages. I should try to do that more often, though I already have more than enough books that I want to read.

drive-by hug

The Ashton PLace books are duly put on my mooch list. xoxo

Thanks for stopping by, Richard! I've missed seeing you here these past few weeks.

I hope those books come up for mooching soon, though I don't know who would get rid of them ;)

If anyone is interested, I see that the hardcover of the first Incorrigibles book is on sale on Amazon for only $6.40, presumably because the paperback is being released in a few days.

Hi Zoe

I enjoyed your comments regarding No and Me. One of the reasons I liked the book is because the author was very realistic in her honest portrayal of the issue of homelessness.

For 15 years I volunteered at a local homeless shelter and served on the Board of Directors. I went into the experience thinking I could make a difference (I like to think I did) and that I could "save" some of the homeless folk. Alas, it isn't that simply, and the author nailed some of the issues right on the head.

The Incorrigible series looks interesting.

No and Me is going on my list. Thanks :)

No and Me sounds very interesting. Between your and Linda's reviews, it sounds like something worthwhile, and important to read.

I just went to see about the Incorrigibles and interestingly enough, it's already available as a softcover here in Canada and also on BookDepository. I just finished reading The Bad Beginning and didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. I guess I was expecting it to be darker than it was. Since the Incorrigibles is compared to Lemony Snicket a lot, I was wondering what you had to say about that comparison?

>176 Whisper1: Linda, I agree, the honest approach was hugely important. And I was glad that we got to know No's story, too. I volunteered at a soup kitchen for five years when I lived in Toronto, and one of the things I regretted was that I never got to know most of those people's stories, or how they got to be where they were. I never wanted to pry, but it's something I always wondered about.

Another book that I've been meaning to read is Lullabies for Little Criminals, which might touch on some related issues. I think I'll try to move it up the list.

Jenn and Faith, I hope you do read the book. It's one that cries out for a discussion, so the more people who read it, the better. I don't want to go into too much detail here for fear of spoilers, but it might be interesting to start a separate discussion thread for it at some point if enough people end up reading it.

>179 Smiler69: Ilana, it's been a long time since I read The Bad Beginning, so I can't make too detailed a comparison--pretty much the only thing I remember about it is that the constant definitions drove me crazy! But probably the most important thing to know is that I didn't much like The Bad Beginning (and never bothered reading any of the sequels), while I loved the Incorrigibles.

The Mysterious Howling has a significantly higher rating than The Bad Beginning, too, so it seems like a fair number of people agree with me.

Zoe

I read Lullabies For Little Criminals a few years ago. It also packs a punch.

By the way, you might want to stroll over to Mary's thread. She is highly recommending the latest Newbery award winner.

I put in a hold request the day the Newbery winners were announced :). So my turn should come soon... and then I just need to find time to read the book before it has to be returned! I don't always do very well with books that can't be renewed.

>181 Whisper1: I wasn't very clear, but One Crazy Summer was listed as a potential winner in the Mock Newberys popping up on blogs leading up to the award, and was one of the honor books this year. Moon Over Manifest was the award winner, and I have it on my library shelf but haven't gotten to it yet. :)

Thanks Zoe, your comments are helpful.

>183 bell7: Oh, Moon Over Manifest is the one I requested. One Crazy Summer sounds good as well.

>184 Smiler69: You're welcome! I hope you decide to give the Incorrigibles a try.

I already have No and Me in the BlackHole. I hope my local library gets a copy in soon!

I will. Now that my I have money in my account again, I'll place a new order on BD and this one is on the list!

So love coming across reviews for books I didn't know existed and immediately want to read. I'll be looking for No and Me.
(I quite liked Lullaby for Little Criminals btw, and it does seem like those two books would have some similar themes.)

So love coming across reviews for books I didn't know existed and immediately want to read.

I love this too! And it's something that happens a lot in this group :)

I'm hoping to get a couple of books finished this weekend, but in the meantime I thought I'd post some pictures of yesterday's snow:

*Wonderful* pictures, Zoe!!

Gosh. Makes me homesick...

So pretty.

Thank you all!

I was inspired to post them by the discussion in your thread, Richard.

Oh? Good! Now, next time you drop in, leave a message, naughty minx!

Oh, right, posting....

Have you considered blowing up the topmost image to 8x10 and framing it?

I *love* the snow pictures. Very pretty.

I constantly consider blowing up my pictures and framing them, but I've never yet actually done it. Once I went so far as to purchase frames, though.

>197 Eat_Read_Knit: Thanks, Caty!

I love the red coat in the middle picture.

I agree, wonderful pictures!! I just borrowed the middle one for my desktop!

Thank you both! And I'm so glad you decided to use one for your desktop :D. Let me know if you want me to email you a higher-quality version.

Ooh,yes! I'll pm you my email address. This one is a touch fuzzy. I love the first one too, but its orientation is wrong for a desktop!

Okay, sent!

Now that February's TIOLI is up, it's time to start planning next month's reads.

First, a couple of books that I want to finish in January:
On Stranger Tides (group read)
Time in Antiquity (school-related)

Then, February planned reads:
The Postman (lead-up to group read, TIOLI Ghosts)
Native Tongue (group read)
Winesburg, Ohio (book circle)
Shades of Grey (TIOLI - 2010 favourites)
Mesopotamia: Writing, Reasoning, and the Gods (school-related)
Reading and Writing in Babylon (school-related)
Nothing to Envy (TIOLI Ghosts)
Yes You Can! Your Guide to Becoming an Activist (ER, TIOLI Ghosts)
Our Search for Happiness (from LT member)
In the Bleak Midwinter (SantaThing, TIOLI Ghosts)
Voodoo Queen (TIOLI African American woman)
Moon Over Manifest
I Shall Not Hate

Of course, plans always change. But it's fun to make them anyway.

Zoe

The middle photo with the splash of red is incredible!

You are very talented.

Thank you, Linda!

Love the pictures, Zoe! Send some snow my way, will you?

You'll just have to come up for another visit, Stasia! :D

With my luck, it will 80 degrees up there when I do!

Ack! I had already laid out an ambitious reading schedule for February, and now I've had to stick on a couple of extra books: I picked up Moon Over Manifest at the library today, and suspect that it won't be renewable, and I also received notice about winning I Shall Not Hate from ER. So I'm splitting my list into high-priority and lower-priority books:

High-Priority
The Postman (group read)
Native Tongue (group read)
Yes You Can! (ER, off the shelf)
Moon Over Manifest (2011 Newbery winner, from library)
Mesopotamia: Writing, Reasoning, and the Gods (school-related, off the shelf)

Lower-Priority
Winesburg, Ohio (book circle)
Shades of Grey (TIOLI, off the shelf)
Reading and Writing in Babylon (school-related, off the shelf)
Nothing to Envy (TIOLI)
Our Search for Happiness (from LT member)
In the Bleak Midwinter (SantaThing, TIOLI, off the shelf)
Voodoo Queen (TIOLI, off the shelf)
I Shall Not Hate (ER, not yet arrived)

Zoe

I'm anxious to hear your impressions of the 2011 Newbery medal winner.

My library ordered the book and is still processing it.

It will probably be the next book I start, after I'm done with a couple of my current reads. I hope your library finishes processing soon!

Ooh, this is the first I've actually heard of Moon over Manifest. I shall have to add it to my list, too - it looks like it hits a lot of my very favorite story elements (epistolary, historical, WW1, time capsule, multiple narratives...)

I love the pics too Zoe. So jealous. Everybody's getting massive amounts of snow but us, and we're here in the North Pole! I already made a list for February which is extremely ambitious, but I like your idea of breaking it down into 'high priority' and 'low priority'. I might do something similar once the new TIOLI challenges are up.

>213 keristars: I actually know hardly anything about the book; I requested it solely on the grounds of being the Newbery winner. I'm glad you think it sounds promising :)

>214 Smiler69: Thanks! I was also disappointed when I went to Toronto for three weeks over Christmas and saw hardly any snow there, but fortunately there seems to be plenty in New York.

once the new TIOLI challenges are up

Hehehe... I just read your post in the TIOLI thread :D

Excellent pictures, Zoe! Have you ever heard of 20x200? I think you'd have great success if you sold your pictures through them. Not sure how to go about contacting them to offer your work, but you (and everyone else, really) should check it out at 20x200.com. I've gotten some lovely prints for $20 over the last couple of years.

>216 LauraBrook: I hadn't heard of that site; thanks for pointing it out! It looks like a fun place to browse. Maybe I will see whether they're interested in my photos, though it seems strange to think of people actually paying for them. I'm not sure they're even high enough resolution for the largest prints, but it would be fun to try :D

9. Time in Antiquity by Robert Hannah. One of my goals for this year is to complete more of the school-related books that I start, so if all goes well, you should be seeing more ancient history books here in the future. This is a very short one to begin with, dealing with topics like calendars and sundials. The general reference to "antiquity" in the title is a bit misleading; this is really a book about Greece and Rome, with the Near East referred to only when relevant for the classical world rather than treated in its own right. So that was a bit disappointing, but there's still a lot of useful information here. The writing is generally quite accessible; I found it particularly helpful that he tended to explain calculations in parentheses, which made processing a lot quicker: "...we find that eight solar years amount to 2,922 days (365 1/4 x 8)", for example. I did have a bit of trouble following some of his discussion about sundials, though. Hannah has written another entire book treating calendars in particular, and I think that probably accounts for why I found the calendar section better than the sundial section.

Overall, I can't say I loved this book, but I found it worth reading. And I'm not aware of other similar books dealing with the same topic, so if you're interested in time in antiquity, this is probably the place to start.

#218: if all goes well, you should be seeing more ancient history books here in the future

I am looking forward to the recommendations in ancient history that you post, Zoe!

10. On Stranger Tides by Tim Powers. I bought this last year after really enjoying The Anubis Gates by the same author. It has a great premise, with 18th-century pirates and vodun magic. Unfortunately I didn't find that the protagonist quite lived up to the promise of the setting; he wasn't particularly interesting or likeable, and key relationships weren't well-developed. Still, I don't regret reading the book, and I'm going to head eagerly over to the group read spoiler thread now to see what other people have said about it....

Oh noes. I stopped reading Anubis Gates because I disliked the protagonist and really didn't care what happened to him. I guess I'll have to give this one a pass too.

>218 _Zoe_:: I have a similar goal this year, to read more books related to what I went to school for. I figure, since I enjoy ancient history/archaeology, I should really be making a point to read books in this area. My current goal is one a month, but hopefully it'll blossom to more. I haven't succeeded this month, though... almost, but not quite...!

Zoe, If you want to fit Native Tongue into TIOLI, I've added it to challenge #8 because it always gets mixed up with the Carl Hiaasen book of the same name.

>221 majkia: I'm sorry you couldn't get into The Anubis Gates; that one had some very satisfyingly twisty plot elements that made the whole story worthwhile for me. But yeah, I definitely think On Stranger Tides is the weaker book, so if you didn't enjoy The Anubis Gates then I certainly wouldn't recommend this one.

>222 dk_phoenix: One a month sounds like a good goal to start with. I hope we can get inspiration from each other :)

>223 norabelle414: Thanks for that suggestion! I just went to the TIOLI thread and left a message for Keri asking if I could count that one even though I haven't personally read the Carl Hiaasen book. Sometimes people make exceptions for shared reads, so there's hope.

>224 _Zoe_: D'Oh! I missed the part where you have to have read the confused book. I haven't read the Hiaasen book so I guess it doesn't count :-(

Oh well... but maybe she'll decide to get rid of that rule if the challenge turns out to be a bit too hard. We can always hope!

225, 226> Actually, I'm thinking maybe getting rid of the previously read...I just thought that would make it more challenging, which Madeline seemed to want. Also, as a way to compare books with same/similar titles.

But I think it's just as interesting to just try for One Book that has a common title, you know? (Plus, you could always read both books this month and they'd count ;) But that might be too unfortunate for the other books TBR)

Yeah, I can definitely understand the desire to make it more challenging. I think it was a good way to start, because you can always loosen up a challenge if it turns out to be too difficult, but you can't really impose further restrictions after the initial posting. Now that we've seen just how restrictive it is, though, I'd be happy to be rid of the already-read requirement (speaking both in self-interest and because it seems like most people are struggling with the challenge). As you can see from my list in #210, I'm already overbooked for this month and definitely can't fit in another Native Tongue!

Bah, I feel properly American now. I have a dental problem and am probably going to wait six weeks to get anything done about it. One of my front teeth chipped almost 20 years ago, and was fixed, but now the replacement corner has broken off (thanks to a deliciously crusty baguette). I have full dental coverage in Toronto, and zero dental coverage here. So it's mainly a question of whether I should wait until Spring Break when I'll probably be in Toronto anyway, or spend $500 now to go back for a weekend. Sigh.

#215 That's kind of funny. I guess I went from your thread to Donna's where I saw her mention the February TIOLI challenges and then found it. And none too soon! I try not to go on the main group page too often because I just get overwhelmed when I do. I've already got more than enough starred threads to keep me busy as it is! Btw, as you probably know already, I came up with a challenge too (traveling animals).

Zoe, I know that you like YA books. I finished Elijah of Buxton and it is one of the best I've ever read....High praise considering how many YA books I've read.

#210 - I got I Shall Not Hate as well. I look forward to seeing your comments!

>231 Whisper1: Linda, that is definitely high praise! I'll have to keep an eye out for that one.

>232 nittnut: Oh, good! I think there will be some interesting discussion around that book. Madeline won it as well, and possibly another 75-er too?

Oops, Ilana, I somehow missed responding to your message! Yup, I saw your travelling animals challenge. The question is, will it fit one of my planned reads listed in #210? :D

By the way, I love it that I will now approach my books thinking, "I wonder if there are any travelling animals in this one?"

LOL. I bet there are traveling animals in more books than we realize. Animals going with people to places and you wouldn't really notice it unless you were looking.

I remember reading The Cat Who Covered the World about a decade ago about a Scottish fold that a journalist took with him everywhere he went. I was amazed he could find as many hotels willing to accept his furry friend as I was.

229: Ack, I know how no-dental-coverage goes. I hope it isn't painful and is only aesthetic? No fun, but manageable I hope.

Hey Zoe, I just finished Moon Over Manifest today (the combined effect of not having the next book in a series on hand when I needed a read and today's snow day). I really enjoyed it, and am looking forward to seeing your thoughts on it.

>237 thornton37814: Lori, pets in hotels are something I've never thought of. That must be difficult.

>239 Ape: Stephen: Yes, entirely aesthetic, just a chunk out of one of my front teeth.... But I refuse to pay to have it fixed immediately when it could be fixed for free next month.

>240 bell7: I'm glad you enjoyed it, Mary. I did start it a couple of days ago but haven't really had time to read yet, so I think I'm only on page 40. Too many books and too little time!

I looked back at your planned reads and couldn't say if there are travelling animals in any of them. But you know of course that you can always add a book to the challenge after you've read it and discovered that is the case!

Btw, I went to the dentist for my checkup last week and couldn't help thinking about you. If I weren't on disability, I don't know how I could afford those visits since medicare doesn't cover it (at least not in Quebec). Entirely aesthetic is a pretty serious consideration in my book!

oh, forgot to ask Zoe, do you have any idea what's happening with touchstones and if we can hope for their return sometime soon? It's driving me absolutely nuts!

Yeah, I'm fortunate that my mother has an amazing dental plan that will cover me as long as I'm a student.... I bet they didn't expect that to last so far into my 20s! It's just not quite so convenient when I'm no longer in the same country.

I'm less bothered about the aesthetic issue than I would have been in the past. I remember last time this bonding broke off, in high school, I really didn't want to be seen (and was able to go to the dentist the next day, so it wasn't a big deal). I can't bring myself to care quite as much anymore, even though some quick googling reveals that the procedure is supposed to be relatively inexpensive ($150 or so). Reading about NYU's dental service, I would have to go for two 2-hour appointments before they would even do anything, too, and it's just too much hassle.

As for touchstones, I recommend that everyone complain in this thread. Obviously 14 messages weren't enough for them to even look at it last night. Let's see if we can move it up the Hot Topics list. I think there's some change that they'll start working again automatically as the servers recover further from Sunday's downtime, but I don't really know much about how these things work.

I've added my complaint to the end of the thread. I really hope someone gets to it soon, it's making things rather frustrating around here.

#244 Good for you if it doesn't bother you! (no sarcasm here). To be perfectly honest, I've stopped caring about a lot of aesthetic considerations which used to be of prime importance to me. Big life changes tend to do that to a person I guess. Different times, different priorities.

I'll go add my complaint to the thread pronto.

drive-by smooch, Zoe

I've been neglectful of the LT threads lately! I've got On Stranger Tides on the TBR pile to be read sometime this year. I want to try to get to it before the movie comes out, just so I can see how far they diverged from the book to make the movie!

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the touchstone bug thread! I'm relieved that it finally got noticed and fixed.

>246 Smiler69: Ilana: Don't get me wrong, I still care quite a bit. Just not enough to actually shell out money for it unnecessarily.

>247 richardderus: Always a pleasure to see you here, Richard.

>248 tapestry100: David, I hope you do read it soon so you can join in the discussion!

Hi Zoe, sorry to hear about the tooth problems.

One of my biggest complaints is the lack of affordable dental insurance around here. I've never had dental coverage. Ever. I've always taken pretty good care of my teeth so my care isn't too bad, but now that I'm married...well...hubby didn't always take care of his teeth. If we chose to, we could probably invest an entire down payment for a house into fixing all his teeth! So lack of dental insurance bothers me more and more lately.

Hope the time flies until you can get it fixed!

How on earth did I lose an entire thread??? Horrors...

I may have to try the second wolf-children book since you recommended it; I quite liked the first. And I LOVED the pics.

Weighing in on dental insurance: even if you have it, it's inadequate for anything more than preventative care. Most plans max out at $2,500 a year, and pay only half of major work, like caps and crowns. So you can easily pay $2,000 out of your own pocket, and have only $500 covered. I had some work done a while ago, and maxed out very quickly. In fact, I kept falling further and further behind, because I could never afford to free up thousands of dollars. And now it's too late for a lot of that work to do any good at all. If I'd had decent insurance at the outset, in my 20s (and a dentist who realized that the meds I was taking caused dry mouth, which has toxic consequences for teeth) then I'd be in MUCH better shape, dentally and financially. OK, rant over.

Good luck with the dental care Zoe. I have great benefits with my job, but dental insurance is not an affordable option.

I got The Incorrigible Children today! Sadly, I have to place it on next month's reading list since this month is over-overbooked solid!

>251 Chatterbox: I second Suzanne's comment about dental insurance. It's laughable - if I were paying for it directly, well, I wouldn't bother. $2000 doesn't go very far these days when you are talking about root canal work or implants or crowns. (or all three together, of course). I've had some rude expenses in the last few years.

I guess the question is - will you be going home anyway, will this be an extra but pleasant trip for that $500, or will you spend the same money either way. And, if you really like your dentist, that's another point to throw in. Annoying that NYU Dental has those requirements - as I have heard, they are not supercheap, but for a student, perhaps they are, and it's all supervised work.

glad you're not in pain, of course. That's the main thing.

ahhh dental work. I spent $4500 on dental last year. This is in NZ where we have fantastic free health care but not dental. Half of that was for wisdom teeth extraction as they had impacted and the other half were for two root canals. By the by as soon as I found out about the root canals I stopped drinking coke and red bulls cold turkey, I used to have at least 1 or 2 a day, 3 or 4 on a stressful day.

Oh, so many horror stories! It helps put my minor problem in perspective. I've now resolved that I'll just wait the six weeks and see my own dentist in mid-March. I hadn't quite decided beforehand whether to visit my family over spring break, but it will certainly be pleasant to do so. And that should cost considerably less than $500 since I won't be booking a last-minute weekend trip after all; I could even go by bus since I'll have plenty of time. So now I just have to make sure not to get my picture taken before then!

I do like my dentist, especially considering that NYU dentistry is done by student dentists. I don't think I really want to go there. I can get better, free treatment if I just wait a month and a half, and already I don't think that wait will be as hard as I'd expected initially. It's amazing how quickly you can become accustomed to something. My tooth still feels a bit weird, but nowhere near as much as the day it happened.

As for books, I have nothing to report right now.... Ilana, I'm glad your Incorrigibles book came in and I really hope you like it as much as I did! I can completely relate to the problem of an over-booked reading month.

Getting caught up on your thread Zoe, and noticed that you said you don't read a lot of books in translation. I know what you mean about having enough books on the TBR pile, but thought maybe I could tempt you with some more - if you needs recs for books in translation, check out Avaland's amazing online magazine, Belletrista, at www.belletrista.com

I'm a little biased, since I'm involved with the magazine, but trust me, it is wonderful!

>257 Cait86: Oh, I hadn't realized that Belletrista focused on translations! Thanks for pointing that out. I had thought it was just about women writers in general.

This past week has been extremely hectic, but I did manage to finish one book last night:



11. Moon Over Manifest by Clare Vanderpool. I picked this one up because it just won the Newbery Medal, and liked but didn't love it. It definitely has a powerful message and did make me cry at the end, but I found it a bit slow-going for the most part; I just didn't feel any strong compulsion to read on. It's possible that I just wasn't in the right mood for it, which is always a problem with unrenewable library books. Anyway, I can understand why it won the Newbery and I know a lot of people will love it.

It's amazing what you can get used to about your teeth *she said glumly*

Still, for what it's worth, I think you're making the right call. A dentist you trust, free care, in exchange for a brief wait? If you're not in pain, and the situation isn't getting worse, it's a no-brainer.

Zoe

I agree with you regarding Moon Over Manifest. When I started to read it late last night, I was hooked and immediately liked the main character...but, not 150 pages later it is dragging and I'll finish it, but I'm disappointed.

I read two of the 2011 Newbery honors and they are ever so much better.

#258&260> Oh, so I'm pleased I went for One Crazy Summer instead, it was quite different and very enjoyable.

Based on yours and Linda's comments on Moon Over Manifest, I think I will knock it down several notches in the BlackHole.

>262 alcottacre: Thanks for saying that, Linda. I had really thought it was just me! I do hope you like it more at the end, though.

I'll have to keep an eye out for One Crazy Summer. It seems like everyone is talking about it lately.

>258 _Zoe_: and 260 Ah, sorry you didn't like Moon Over Manifest more. I agree, Zoe, that mood can have a lot to do with it (for good and bad). I was definitely in the mood for something a little more contemplative after finishing the first two books in the Chaos Walking trilogy in a rush, and this one really fit the bill for me. I agree, though, that at points the plot drags and as a result I'm hard-pressed to think of many kids I'd recommend the book to. (Is it just me, or does it seem that many Newbery Medal winners are more adult-friendly kids books than books that kids would naturally enjoy left to their own devices? I wonder about this a lot...)

Interesting question about whether the Newbery's are more adult-friendly. I only started really paying attention to them a couple of years ago, so I've missed a lot. I certainly don't think When You Reach Me would appeal much to children, but then I'm probably the only person in the world who really disliked that book. The Graveyard Book seems like it would have more appeal, though; at least, I've heard children talking positively about other Gaiman books.

Looking back, I do have very positive memories of the two Newbery books I read in my own childhood: The Giver and The Midwife's Apprentice. But of course, the choices could have changed a lot since then. I should really make a bit of an effort to read more of the winners from the past 10-15 years.

What really made me wonder about this most was probably Criss Cross, the 2006 winner that I couldn't finish. I thought it would appeal most to adults who had grown up in the 60s, and I couldn't follow the story at all (someone who did informed me that you're following a lost necklace; she said the story reminded her of summers growing up, and she loved it). That year, I absolutely liked the Honor winners better, but this is a committee making the pick, too, and I'm sure some compromises have to be made to reach a decision.

I liked When You Reach Me, but I think it has less kid-appeal than some of the older Newbery titles like Holes. How much I enjoyed Newbery Medal winners as a kid probably varies as much as it does now - I loved Carry On, Mr. Bowditch, Johnny Tremain, Rifles for Watie and more - but didn't particularly go for Jacob Have I Loved. A lot of them, even those I enjoyed, were books read for school and not something I might have discovered on my own. There were only a few I picked up for myself as a kid/teen: Dicey's Song, Number the Stars (which, come to think of it, was a book a friend read for school and recommended to me) and Jacob Have I Loved. Those are, in fact, the only three Newbery Medal winners that I did not read for school OR as an adult (loved the first two, didn't like/understand the ending of the third).

So I guess I don't really have a firm answer on this, but it's something that I think about as I read the winner every year. I have sort of a dual readership in mind as a librarian - Do I like this? Would I recommend this to my patrons?

There's been a debate in library circles over the past few years, about the Newbery. It's nowhere in the Newbery criteria that the book be popular or appeal to all children; the award is for the most distinguished contribution to children's literature of the year. This does mean that sometimes the books chosen seem more adult-friendly than kid-friendly, but the good writing usually means that the book will endure longer than a lot of the popular stuff that is published. Of course, since the committee is different each year, the choices some years are "better" than others ("better" being completely subjective, of course -- for example, I thought When You Reach Me was a great pick, while others might think it lackluster).

I haven't read Moon Over Manifest yet, but I must admit that the description doesn't appeal to me. I will read it eventually, but I feel no urgency over it. I was rooting for What Happened on Fox Street, which was not recognized at all.

I think that "dual readership" idea (>266 bell7:) is really key -- something I emphasize in my children's literature classes is that the adult reader is very different from the child reader -- and I think the ALA committee tries to balance that but, as a group of adults, often leans toward the viewpoint of the adult reader. Hence, the many choices that seem to have older appeal.

I also think that many times the committee is looking for "future classics" -- books that, as mentioned above (>267 foggidawn:) will endure, will eventually be looked upon as classics, etc. Since parents and adults are often responsible for designating what a classic is, that might factor in to the Newbery perspective.

Overall, despite the variation, I still think the Newbery honor lists and medals are a generally good guide to children's literature that has quality writing, good content, and lasting images/ideas. I also like that my local bookstore has a Newbery/Caldecott section, so they are easy to find. :)

#258 - Belletrista is about women writers from around the world in general, but we aim to have at least 40% of our reviews, etc., focus on books in translation.

Interesting discussions here. I'm just breezing through, but thought I should de-lurk to let you know I was here! :-)

Oh, I realize I had also read Bridge to Terabithia, for school, but it was already 15 years old by then. The two Newbery books that I remember really liking were ones that had just come out in the year or so before I read them. I can certainly see that the Newbery books are aiming for a certain "classic" quality, and I do think they generally succeed at that, but I'm not sure that classics tend to be the most appealing to children.

Still, the Newbery is the only award that makes me rush out to read their chosen book, and that certainly says something.

>269 Cait86: I think it's possible that the only thing I knew about Belletrista was the name. So that got across the women part, but I had completely missed the whole around-the-world aspect.

>270 Smiler69: Hi Ilana :). It's always nice to know who's lurking.

Meanwhile, I actually finished a book tonight:



12. Mesopotamia: Writing, Reasoning, and the Gods. This is one that had been on my shelf for almost 10 years; I remember exactly because I purchased at the Louvre shop when my aunt took me to Paris for my 16th birthday (possibly the best birthday present ever). I had actually read a lot of it at the time, but got bogged down in one dense chapter and somehow set it aside for many years. I started again from the beginning after reading and enjoying one chapter for class last semester. It's definitely an interesting book, with a lot of thought-provoking ideas. It's essentially a reworking of various essays that the author had published in the past, which means that there isn't a continuous narrative and certain points tend to get repeated, but it works well on the whole, although the ending seems a bit abrupt. I particularly enjoyed the beginning chapters about the history of Assyriology. The author is very present in this book, which is different from most academic works, but I found it fairly refreshing. The book is 20 years old now, so certain ideas aren't quite up-to-date, but it's still a worthwhile and informative read for anyone interested in the area.

I forgot to say, even though I've only finished two books this month, I'm happy with my progress so far. Both were on my shortlist of 5 must-read books of the month, and one was a longtime TBR related to my studies!

I know I'll be removing a bunch of unread books from the TIOLI (and Richard's poor book circle will probably be neglected again), but at least I'm making progress on my highest priorities :)

#271: I am interested. I will see if I can find the book. Thanks, Zoe!

I hope you find and enjoy it!

#274: The local college has a copy in its library, so I should be able to get to it some time soon.

I' enjoy these discussions on the Newbery award winning books. I'd love to have time to research (and read) all the award winners. I've made a dent, but when I recently added all books since 1922 to my library thing data base, I realized that the goal will be daunting.

In my opinion, the books have changed dramatically, perhaps to encompass an adult perspective.

The discussions posted bring personal questions re. why I resonate so soundly with some of the stories. For example, I loved Missing May, Kira, Kira, Because of Winn Dixie, Hope Was Here, Getting Near to Baby and Pictures of Hollis Woods, all of which dealt with the topic of loss and grief.

The Watsons Go To Birmingham and Elijah of Buxton focused on the historical reality of subjugation and man's inhumanity to man.

Hats off to Gary Schmidt, one of my top Newbery award winning authors! The Wednesday Wars and Lizzie Bright and the Buckminster Boys also deal with historical topics without over dramatization. Both Schmidt and Christopher Paul Curtis paint wonderful, powerful images, using humor instead of a heavy hand, and therein is the beauty of the story.

Yet another incredible story teller is Karen Hesse. Her portrayal of American struggles and the Dust Bowl, using a sad and very likable young woman as the storyteller, renders Out of the Dust as a book well deserving to the accolades received.

While the intended audience may well be young adults, in the end, I firmly believe that I'm hooked because of the beauty of the images, the words and the feelings that are elicited when reading about life, love, loss and the enduring ability to struggle and walk a path that is thorny and troubled, but well worth the journey.

#276: While the intended audience may well be young adults, in the end, I firmly believe that I'm hooked because of the beauty of the images, the words and the feelings that are elicited when reading about life, love, loss and the enduring ability to struggle and walk a path that is thorny and troubled, but well worth the journey.

I will agree with that 100%.

Your latest book sounds like a good way to refresh my memory of the courses I've long forgotten. I tried delving back into the Canadian Society for Mesopotamian Studies Journal the other day and felt my eyes glazing over. After going cold turkey for a few years on recent journal articles, I think maybe the subject is better approached at a more familiar, languid pace... :)

>278 dk_phoenix: Yup, I think that might be a good one to start with. I'll look forward to seeing what you think if you do end up reading it.

Meanwhile, the last week has been extremely hectic so I'm just now coming back to a book that I finished on Monday:



13. The Children's Blizzard. I read this for the winter TIOLI challenge, and really enjoyed it. It's about a blizzard that took place in the north-central United States in 1888, known as the Children's Blizzard because one of the most-affected groups was schoolchildren on their way home from school. It's a fascinating read if you're interested in pioneers or survival stories, though I found the sections on meteorology a bit dull. My only real complaint, though, is that the author took too many liberties in describing the thought processes of people who died in the blizzard. He blurs the line between fact and fiction a lot more than I'm comfortable with, though it does make for a compelling read and I'd still recommend the book.

One thing that I found particularly interesting was a single comment at the end of the book referring to the idea of a "Buffalo Commons", suggesting that certain areas of the United States are really not suitable for agriculture and would be better left to return to their original form as much as possible. Lots to think about there.

This one is already on my wishlist. I'm really looking forward to getting to it.

Zoe, I can't believe that it has taken me 6 weeks to find your 2011 thread. Some great discussions, as usual, and outstanding book reviews, as always. I'll be going back up-thread now to add some of your titles to the wish list. I'll try not to take another 6 weeks to make it back here. That is just too much to catch up on!

Just delurking to say hello.

278: I took note of The Children's Blizzard in another thread (don't recall whose) because I think I would be interested in the sections on meteorology, entwined with a pioneer story. Useful to know about the fact/fiction blurring, because I too would find this irritating.

Waving hello.

I have already read (and enjoyed) The Children's Blizzard, so I can dodge that particular book bullet.

I hope life is less hectic for you soon, Zoe!

Just saying Hello, Zoe! :)

Hi everyone! Thank for stopping by :).

>281 sjmccreary: Don't worry, Sandy, I'm barely keeping abreast of my own thread, not to mention anyone else's! I'm just glad you made it here eventually.

Hi there Zoe!

I've been falling behind on your thread! The Children's Blizzard has been on my "think about this" list for a while, recently moving up to my wishlist. My family's from that part of the country, though I don't know if they were there yet at the time, so I'm really interested.

I do like the idea of the Buffalo Commons, in general if not in the specifics -- that is, the idea of prairie restoration is dear to my heart, and bison are critical for that. I'm less concerned with the details of whether that's done via parkland or sustainable, open-range bison ranching, and I suspect the latter would be a lot easier to actually achieve. The problem is that you can't just let these areas, or any damaged ecosystems, "go back to nature"; there are too many invasive species and too many missing natives. (At least most of the area in question hasn't been plowed; it's almost never been farmed, only ranched.) It takes active management and, thus, money.

Sorry to ramble on your thread!

Don't worry, I've been falling behind on my own thread too! I still need to add the book I finished last night.

And rambling is always welcome, especially when I'm interested in the topic. I really don't know much about detailed proposals for the Buffalo Commons, though I can imagine how complicated the issue is. I've so far just looked at a couple of websites after seeing the passing mention in The Children's Blizzard, but it's something that I'd like to read about in more depth at some point.

Meanwhile, I guess I should give at least a brief write-up of yesterday's book while I'm here:



14. The Postman by David Brin. This is a post-apocalyptic story that lots of 75ers read for the Halloween discussion last year. I didn't manage to participate at the time, but I picked up the book now because that discussion apparently inspired the whole Future Women group read series that's ongoing now (yes, I'm a bit behind, but I still plan to catch up eventually). I haven't yet sought out the Postman discussion because I want to let my own thoughts settle a bit more, but for now I can at least say that I enjoyed the book. It's always fun to see how someone 25 years ago imagined the world of today, and on the whole the story holds up well. The attitudes towards computers and women were what struck me as most strange, and I imagine that the latter at least has been discussed in last year's thread. I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone said.

*sigh* And I so wanted to hang up the Thread Police badge...but really...almost 300 posts? Even cable internet takes time to load this thread. C'mon, Zoe, be a good netizen.

Okay, okay.... a new thread will be created momentarily.

New thread is here.