Discussion Questions

1. In your opinion, is Lily, who is the narrator, the heroine or the villain? What are her flaws and her strengths?

2. Do you think the concept of "old sames" exists today? Do you have an "old same," or are you part of a sworn sisterhood? In what ways are those relationships similar or different from the ones in nineteenth-century China?

3. Some men in nineteenth-century China apparently knew about nu shu, the secret women's writing described in Snow Flower. Why do you think they tolerated such private communication?

4. Lily writes her story so that Snow Flower can read it in the afterworld. Do you think she tells her story in a convincing way so that Snow Flower can forgive and understand? Do you think Snow Flower would have told the story differently?

5. When Lily and Snow Flower are girls, they have one intimate --- almost erotic --- moment together Do you think their relationship was sexual or, given the times, were they simply girls who saw this only as an innocent extension of their friendship?

6. Having a wife with bound feet was a status symbol for men, and, consequently, having bound feet increased a woman's chances of marriage into a wealthier household. Women took great pride in their feet, which were considered not only beautiful but also their best and most important feature. As a child, would you have fought against having your feet bound, as Third Sister did, knowing you would be consigned to the life of a servant or a "little daughter-in-law"? As a mother, would you have chosen to bind your daughter's feet?

7. The Chinese character for "mother love" consists of two parts: one meaning "pain," the other meaning "love." In your own experience, from the perspective of a mother or a daughter, is there an element of truth to this description of mother love?

8. The author sees Snow Flower and the Secret Fan as a novel about love and regret, but do you think there's also an element of atonement in it as well

9. In the story, we are told again and again that women are weak and worthless. But were they really? In what ways did Lily and Snow Flower show their strength and value?

10. Although the story takes place in the nineteenth century and seems very far removed from our lives --- we don't have our feet bound, we're free and mobile --- do you think we're still bound up in other ways; for instance, by career, family obligations, conventions of feminine beauty, or events beyond our control such as war, the economy, and natural disasters?

11. Because of its phonetic nature, nu shu could easily be taken out of context and be misunderstood. Today, many of us communicate though e-mail or instant-messaging. Have you ever had an experience where one of your messages has been misunderstood because of lack of context, facial or body gestures, and tone of voice? Or have you ever been on the receiving end of a message that you misinterpreted and your feelings were hurt?

12. Madame Wang, the matchmaker, is a foot-bound woman and yet she does business with men. How is she different from the other women in the story? Do you think she is considered a woman of status or is she merely a necessary evil?

Response by MoeOz:

Snow Flower and the Secret Fan

In my opinion I think of Lily as being a tragic heroine. She was taught to honor duty and one’s place in society even when events challenged that sense of duty and place (i.e. when Snow Flower was being beaten by her husband in front of Lily). It was not until she began to Sit Quietly after losing Snow Flower that she allowed more of her heart to flow, but she did so as Lady Lu. I see her flaw and strength in this adherence to duty. It allowed her to rise within her husband’s household and the community, yet it kept her heart buried so deep inside her.

Depending on the society, I think that the concept of “old sames” could exist today. Perhaps in a nation where women were still marginalized. I say this because of the question regarding nu shu (Question 3). This writing of women was tolerated because women posed no threat to men politically, financially or emotionally.

I have known women for long periods of time, although we seldom see each other, but phones and the internet allow us to “stay in touch” and share significant occasions in each other. Though I doubt the level of intimate love that Snow Flower and Lily could be cultivated today because we we seem to suffer more with issues of what is proper than they did in the 19th century among women.

See response above.

I am not sure I can say whether Snow Flower would forgive based on what Lily has written. I feel that Snow Flower loved Lily and would forgive her anything. But I do feel that Lily has presented her story honestly and included her flaws. Lily’s writing of Snow Flower’s home was raw yet frank. Snow Flower knew what her laotong was thinking, even when Lily did not realize it herself. Snow Flower’s telling of the story would be laced with sadness, loss and disappointment, much the same as Lily’s but the story would be more of a decent rather than moving on as in Lily’s case.

When Snow Flower and Lily were writing the nu shu characters on each other’s bodies, I saw it as just another phase of their “old sames” personalities. It felt right, and it was a turning point in their relationship; they never again, not even with their husbands, achieved that level of intimacy that enriched their love for each other.

The first time I became aware of the binding of feet was through literature where someone not understanding what had been done to the woman he loved, unbound her feet, crippling her and doomed her to a life a misery, ending their relationship. So no, I would rather be consigned to a life of a servant or “little daughter-in-law”. Yes, I am looking at these two positions through the eyes of someone far removed from this life, yet the lives of servants although bound by tradition, were afforded more movement in the world of men. And no, I could never inflict pain on another, so would fail miserably as someone’s mother.

A mother’s love is both loving and punishing. You want your children to be aware and wary of the challenges of life; in order to do this you sometimes must be cruel, but you are doing it because you love them and want them to suceed, and don’t want them to suffer or make the same mistakes that you did. In Toni Morrison’s Beloved, we are confronted by the ultimate mother love, when she decides to kill her children to keep them from slavery.

No, I believe the story is about love and sorrow, not necessarily atonement. My definition of atonement is reconciliation with God for a wronging doing or a sin. Although they held back the truth, and at times allowed duty to lead them, I don’t believe that either woman stopped loving the other. I could see Lily atoning only if she did not love Snow Flower at all, but as we know she loved her very much.

Yes, the women of 19th century China were strong. They were required to endure although they had no control over their lives. As in the case of Snow Flower’s mother, who was married to a man who took to the pipe and was unable to be a provider. Her destiny was tied to him no matter what, and she endured. Both Snow Flower and Lily lost children to death, but were told by their culture how they were suppose to grieve. Snow Flower was even beaten by her husband. All this while required to raise children and provide a home. Lily showed her value by never bringing dishonor to her husband and was able to instruct the women of Tongkou by example. Snow Flower was a comfort to Lily’s family when Beautiful Moon died, she knew what to say and how to say it without speaking, as Lily learned to do from her.

Many people are bound by the world we live in. Though much of what binds us is more a seduction than a physical restraint. Advertisers seduce us, envy and fear seduces us into thinking that we must have or possess things that make us feel beautiful, dull the pain of our lives or make us stand out.

Let’s just say, that I hate talking on the phone and that the first time I sent something in caps to someone via email I almost caused an international incident.

I will try to answer these questions as best I can...here goes...

1. Lily as heroine or villain?
I think that just like in our own lives, Lily is both heroine and villain at different points throughout her life. When they fled to the mountains and she confronted SnowFlower's family she was the heroine, however, she played the villain when she divulged her laotung's secrets in the form of a song.

2. "Old sames" in modern society? I think our concept of "loyalty" has diverged a lot from past traditions of the concept. A great example is the tradition of marriage, which some would consider the ultimate form of commitment. There may be something similar, although I'm not aware of any, in those cultures where arranged marriages are still enforced today. In the book, they talked about matching up the 8 characters; birthday, foot size, family background to determine the compatibility of the two girls. Both girls born in the year of the horse, their strengths are very different. I am not sure whether that's a result of the influence of their home circumstances or if it is due to a self-developed sense of worth and value.

3. I think Nu-Shu was tolerated because it was a part of the woman's "inner realm." Both men and women had strict rules to adhere to in chinese society at that time, which to some extent still exist today. While women were busy with their duties and some form of womanly recreation activities, then men could be left alone to take care of things in the "outer realm."

4. I would've loved to have heard more of Snowflower's thoughts, especially concerning her enjoyment of 'bed-business.'

TBC....

1. I agree with Mo in that Snow Flower is a tragic heroine. It is only when she is the Lady of the house that she is finally given the opportunity to feel and excersise her own emotions and desires. Of course, she cannot and does not fully experience these emotions as the Lady but certainly is allowed more emotional freedom with her status and power.
2. The closest thing I can think of that would come close to being an "old same" is a sorority, best friend or sister.
3. They tolerated it so that women would have something to keep them intellectually 'busy'. They did not want women being scholarly as they were so it was a way to placate women into believing they had a language of their own, while serving as a monitoring device that they could use to read what the women were doing and feeling.
4. Lily writes from her perspective, with the hopes that Snow Flower will understand why Lily might have said done and felt certain things.
5. This question is especially interesting, as I thought about it when I read the scene. It reminded me of an erotic moment, and to some degree I believe it was. It was more of a moment of discovery, a moment of sensual discovery where the girls could appreciate each other and how close they were as old sames.