Just joined

Just a note that I joined the LOA.

Welcome. Which offer did you start with? I began with the Debate on the Constitution offer.

Welcome :-)

I got the 2 volume of poetry. Im not really drawn to poetry but Im trying to broaden my literary horizons. Also I wanted a better quality of books in my library. Im cheap and buy books from where ever. I wanted a nice library to pass on to my kids.

That is a great reason. I am doing the same. I initially set my preferences to what I normally like, but was so awed by the quality and scholarship of each volume the LoA can get me to like anything.

I am building a library of these and well-made international books for my children.

I am in the midst of debating a Library of America OR a Folio Society subscription. In fact, both of their sites' introductory offer pages are open in my browser right now. Hmm. Part of me wants to spring for both.

I think the perfect combination would be LoA for American works and Folio Society for international works.

>6 andrewsd:

I have both :)
LOA is a lot lower price per month AND you can customize your subscription to fit you (one book every 2 months for example). Folio... requires just 4 books per year but if you manage that, you will be the first... :)

>7 randomengine:
Actually Folio are venturing into American as well - and some of the editions are stunning. But yeah - that's the usual split. :)

>8 AnnieMod:

This is the exact reason I am a member of both and also precisely how my LOA subscription is set up!

Unfortunately I could only spring for one for now. I chose LoA, but I do have some Folio books as well and they are beautiful.

Each to their own I suppose. I have both. What I admire about the Library of America is their determination not to be elitist. They strive to make accessible to all, within a value laden edition, the works of a particular author.

Yeah, but is the scholarship for Folio editions as good as LoA?

>12 randomengine: From what I can tell, scholarship is a main focus of LOA, whereas creating aesthetically pleasing editions is more the focus of FS. When we talk about "scholarship," we are really referring to the work that editors put in to in assembling a collection of works, choosing authoritative versions of the texts, and adding any critical materials that would increase appreciation of the volume. For example, in my LOA copy of James Baldwin's collected essays, an editor was responsible for selecting the most important ones and ensuring that the texts were accurate to original publications. If you were writing a thesis on Baldwin, you would want the LOA collection over, say, a hypothetical Folio Society copy of The Fire Next Time that just contains just the text. FS editors do a lot of work on their editions I'm sure, but they mainly publish single works or limited collections. LOA books often contain the complete and comprehensive works of an author in one volume.

Thanks and this is one of the main reasons I focus on LoA for my collection. Nice looking books are one thing, but I want the definitive edition.

>14 randomengine:

The question is...what IS the definitive edition? The work that editors compiled from many sources, some which may in fact not be what the author intended should be used, or the original publication that achieved renown in the first place. I'm not disparaging the work of the LOA editorial staff at all, but determining what constitutes a "definitive edition" can be a sticky wicket.

>15 Django6924:

Sure, but what I am most concerned with is which organization works hardest and is the best at their scholarship. From my own research it appears the Folio Society is most about great illustrated editions. LoA is about the very best attempted scholarship on the subject in well-made volumes that are designed to last generations.

I am going to pick that which puts forth the most effort into the scholarship and that also provides incredible durability. To me, that is the LoA.

Folio and LOA have different goals though so comparing them does not really make sense.

LOA is creating multi-work editions of the full body of work of authors (or selections in some rare cases).

Folio is publishing separate works in superb bindings and illustrations using editions which are closest to what had been published or by creating their own editions (there are a few like that).

LOA is only American-focused; Folio is UK-focused with US and world literature thrown in.

If you want non-American literature (or non-fiction) in durable editions, you need to go for Folio, Easton Press or a fine press (where prices are astronomical).

>17 AnnieMod: Annie, you seem to have a lot of experience in this area, so here's a question for you: what major 'fine presses' do you know of? I am interested to know what is beyond Easton/Folio/LOA. :-)

>18 andrewsd: Andrew, there is a magazine called Fine Books and Collections. They used to a small two page section each month on small fine presses. Some of the works were very nice. I just now resubscribed to the magazine so Im not certain if they still do the interviews.

>18 andrewsd:

It really depends on what you would call Fine presses... The classical fine ones (such as Arion Press) are usually beyond my means... Folio and Easton are cheap compared to those. The ones that publish respectable editions which are not exactly Fine presses but are still durable and pleasing to the eye are a different story but they cannot be called fine.

And it goes down to what kind of books you are looking for - classics, genre, little known ones or something in between.

There is Fine Presses group here as well if you want to look into it :)

>19 Leonard72: Many thanks Leonard, I will check it out.

I discovered Easton Press, Library of America, and The Folio Society about three years ago. I purchased a few titles from each on the second-hand market, but I went through a long period where I was obsessed with eBook readers and the whole concept of eReading. That phase has sort of worn off (I really don't like spending money on intangible, DRMed computer files that I don't even really own according to the fine print), and I have recently rekindled my love for the physical book. I almost signed up for a LOA subscription last summer, but buying used paperbacks seemed so much more economical at the time. Then I came across these LOA and FS LibraryThing groups and now everyone's conversations about their subscriptions has effectively got me hooked.

So, in short, I just joined LOA today! I went with The John Steinbeck Library introductory offer. Excited!

eReaders have their place. I had switched my "newly published fiction" reading to my Kindle and that helps a lot with the space around the house (and if a book is really great, sooner or later a nice publisher will publish a copy that is at least on acid-free paper. In the meantime, I read what I always had read and the books arriving at home are nice editions, non-fiction and books that do not have Kindle versions.

Plus - you cannot beat eReaders for travel. Although in the last few years I started seeing a lot more people with physical books than there used to be before Kindle/Nook became popular.

>20 AnnieMod: Annie, there are some really interesting Arion Press news segments on YouTube that I have seen before. I almost died when I saw how incredible their edition of James Joyce's Ulysses looked. Arion and other letterpress operations would be out of my price range as well, but I would love to get a catalog every once and awhile. Leonard's magazine suggestion will meet that need. I guess my question should be, is there anything else out there like LOA, FS, or EP? My literary interests are broad but my preference is for late-Victorian and modernist/postmodernist authors.

Thanks for helping me arrive at my decision to subscribe to LOA. Now I just need to thrown caution to the wind and subscribe to FS. My other book $ allowance might be a bit smaller, but the beauty of FS editions will surely make up for it.

For Late Victorian, your best bet is actually Folio - look at the full list of titles in the wiki http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/Groups:Folio_Society_Devotees#Index_o... to see what had already been published. I am a fan of Victorian literature so... had been tracking a few books in the last years :)

Most of the nice presses (not fine but good enough) that I like are usually genre fiction (horror, SF and the like) simply because this is where my interest lies - PS Publishing, Tartarus Press, Centipede Press (although they have some editions that are... bad to put it mildly), Subterranean press, And then there are at least a few presses that I would recommend any day even if they are publishing paperbacks (NYBR, Europa Editions, Persephone Books).

From the ones that had folded - the good old Limited Editions club also has some Victorian ones that noone else had reprinted (or made better). Heritage Press as well Franklin Press (careful with those though as only some are leather, the rest are leatherette) may also be an option if you like Easton.

Look around LT (http://www.librarything.com/groups/finepressforum and http://www.librarything.com/groups/georgemacydevotees and http://www.librarything.com/groups/franklinlibrarycolle and of course the Folio and Easton groups). All that can be very dngerous for your budget though...

It's worth noting that there is a huge market of used Folio books out there. I personally baulk at the idea of paying huge premiums on Folio new books because I live in Australia and the enormous mailing costs they have, therefore I look at the used market instead.

You cannot really compare LoA with Folio. They both offer quality but different products. You can however weigh up value, and Library of America wins by a mile.

If you look for American authors - yes. But outside of them, LOA is not an option :)

And yeah - all of the presses have pretty steady secondary markets. I still buy new when I can because if noone does, Folio won't survive. But that's a different story.

24> Thanks for the links, Annie. I think I have settled on the Library of America/Folio Society combo for now, and Heritage Press/Limited Edition Club books on the second-hand market. After getting a couple of Easton Press books on eBay, I have decided not to invest in those. They are a bit cumbersome to hold and I really don't like how the gilded edges age (little specs of glitter everywhere).

I also enjoy collecting Everyman's Library editions, both new and vintage. Paperback Penguin Classics editions from the '50s and 60s are surprisingly high quality; if you get one in good condition, it hardly looks aged.

>25 LesMiserables: The value is what drew me to LOA. I would probably try to only buy enough new FS books to keep up my membership, if I finally decided to sign up. It was much easier for me to financially rationalize joining LOA today.

>25 LesMiserables: I agree the price is way out there on some books. I have a great bookstore near me that sells used "collectable" books, like Folio, LoA and Heritage. The prices are almost half of a new one. Ebay is another place I managed to scoop up some Folio and LoA books at reasonable prices.

LOA are pretty cheap even new though...

Yeah they are like 30.90 on my subscription and you can get them much cheaper on Amazon new if you don't care about the slip cases. I think that is pretty cheap for what you get.

>30 randomengine: Well most Amazon prices are comparable; it's just that you can get free shipping and pay $25 instead of $30. I went with the subscription though for the slipcases and editor's notes. That and I really want to directly support LOA. In my experience, FS editions have been tough to come by at lower prices, at least the ones I have been looking for. I don't have any decent used book stores in my area, and eBay is competitive. There again, I would also like the perks of FS membership.

>30 randomengine:

If you buy directly from LOA outside of the subscription, you get 25.95 (free postage)... and they come with the slipcases if you buy from the member screen. :) Plus I find the slipcased editions a lot nicer than the black dust jackets :)

>31 andrewsd:
There is that. If you want the newer editions, Folio are not that cheap on the secondary market. And at least you get it new :)

>32 AnnieMod: Oh yes that's right. You can get free shipping when you order from the member page. I haven't quite figured that out yet as I haven't received my membership order/account number yet. I imagine I will get that with my first set? I also have a 10% off coupon for signing up for the LOA newsletter that I'm planning to use.

I am also willing to spend a few extra dollars for the experience of unsealing a brand new book.

I subscribe to help support the non-profit LOA. Prices aren't bad and they often have good sales.

So membership incl. slipcases and editor's notes? Never heard of the latter.

>35 ironjaw:
It's a 2 pages thing (similar to the ones that Heritage had for example), one side of the second page is proposals of what you would like as well. They are nice to remind me what I have on the shelves :)

Everyman's, now published by Random House, is really the affordable way to go for non LOA titles. You have to check on the translations for some works but the quality is generally good (though not to LOA standards), the trim size is similar to LOA's, and the selection is pretty broad with more than 300 titles available in the relaunched, post-1991 series. Ribbon markers too.

>37 bsc20: I have a beautiful edition of Anna Karenina from Everyman's, and a copy of Salman Rushdie's Midnights Children. On Amazon they average $10 - $17 for brand new copies. Everyman's also bundles books into themed sets like this: http://tinyurl.com/bws3ob2

For those who would like to read the Canterbury Tales in Middle English, and have a modern English version on the facing page, you can do no better than the Everyman's Library edition. They seldom get acknowledged in the world of classic literature, but for the English-speaking world, they have been surpassed by no one in their contribution.

I have around 40 or so Everymans' editions. I say they are great value indeed. I think it is accepted that the Library of America editions have unimpeachable authority. Everymans' are of a high standard too, though as said above, some editions need to be scrutinized for their translation. Same can be said for LOEB editions: some antiquated stuff out there!

LOEB's translations are not the reason for their existence though

> 41

LOEB english translation though should reflect the era in which they are being read! Some of them are akin to reading the KJV Authorised :-)

It is a pretty big list of titles... so some of them will fail behind. :) They are updating them slowly. :)

Plus - I prefer a more literal to a real English translation there - I can read the work in English elsewhere but when I try my hand in Latin, I prefer to be able to use the translation for the hard parts...

I would like to know more about these LOEB. And I am not sure I understand you Annie:

"LOEB's translations are not the reason for their existence though"

Quick acronym clarification: LOEB???

> 45 Quick acronym clarification: LOEB???

It's not an acronym - James Loeb was the creator of the Loeb Classical Library

>44 ironjaw:

Faisel, the Loeb translations were, and still are, a useful tool in the study of Latin and Greek. Virtually all classical texts in these languages are presented, with an English translation en face and have been popular students' cribs for learning Homer, Plato, Caesar, Cicero, etc. For some years now it has been published by Harvard University. I first encountered the red Loebs (the Latin texts) in high school, but never saw any green Loebs (the Greek texts) until I went to college. The goal was not to produce necessarily a translation with literary merit, but one that would enable the student to learn the vocabulary and grammatical construction of the original, though as has been pointed out, many of the older translations used were less than literal, most often to render sexual references in sanitized versions.

I heard mention of Every Man's Library, is there a LT group about those?

>44 ironjaw:

The idea of the Loeb editions is to give you the Greek and Latin texts with facing English to help if you get stuck with the original language. So the translations are somewhat clunky in places but the literal translation helps more when trying to figure out what the original says that a poetic and nice one.

Add to that the fact that there is a lot of those and they cannot be updated that fast - so some of the titles have translations from the 20s. (Playing around the vulgar and explicit stuff kinda defeated the purpose but...)

I just do not see them as a package of "best translation" + the original text but more as a good enough and a bit more literal translation + the original text.

>48 Leonard72:

No such group exists to my knowledge.

Here you go Leonard:
http://www.librarything.com/groups/everyman

> 51 Of course there is, why would we doubt it ;-) Doesn't look like it's very active.

48, 50> I just joined an Everyman's group yesterday on LT.

>51 ptdixon: Thanks for the link

> 2

I should have added that I started with the Steinbeck offer.

I can, hand on heart say, that East of Eden and The Grapes of Wrath are amongst the best books I have ever had the good fortune to enjoy.

>55 LesMiserables: I also just joined last Saturday with the Steinbeck offer. I almost went with the writings of Lincoln, but the value of the Steinbeck set, and the fact that I have always loved him as a writer of fiction, swayed me. Still no shipping email yet, but I am anxiously looking forward to getting the set and my first list!

I just joined as well, also with the Steinbeck set. New to librarything as well having discovered it and Foilo Society recently.

>57 luvthefloyd: Welcome luvthefloyd! I joined LibraryThing in 2010 and didn't give it much thought. Then I discovered these amazing forums a couple of months ago, and I have been cataloging, commenting, and buying books like crazy ever since. The LOA, Easton Press, George Macy Devotees, and FS groups are a lot of fun and an incredible source of information. There are some hardcore, knowledgeable collectors on there for sure.

However, if you are someone who is trying NOT to compulsively buy books, you might be better off leaving the groups alone. Everything everyone talks about seems so interesting, you can't help but want to subscribe to everything. Since joining, I have added two new shelves to my library, filled with FS, LOA, and Heritage Press volumes. I recently joined LOA and put in my subscription form for about 25 volumes. Plus, I plan on joining the Folio Society soon. I have been debating that one for about a year, then I joined the FS Devotees group, and, of course, that has motivated me to take the plunge even more. It's not the initial membership cost that worries me. I know that when sales come around and interesting titles or sets are involved, I won't be able to resist. I nearly bought the Van Gogh LE before it (thankfully) went out of print.

My preference lately is for LOA volumes though. They print the works of so many amazing authors, and the value is incredible. I really love how they read.

This is really the problem. In the last week or so i've discovered LT, FS, and although i owned a few Everyman editions wasn't really aware of this world. I had generally purchased the cheapest amazon paperbacks i could find from decent publishers. My worry now having read many many threads is going berserk with Folio Society, Everyman, and LOA.

I have to say i really appreciate the thoughtfulness and civility the members here seem to have.

Thank you for the welcome!

>59 luvthefloyd: "I had generally purchased the cheapest amazon paperbacks i could find from decent publishers."

That was basically what I had been doing up until I discovered LOA, FS, Everyman's, and Modern library. I would also purchase VG & like new paperbacks/hardbacks from Amazon marketplace sellers. This practice is okay for newer authors, but once I decided that I wanted to build a library of classics, I knew that spending money on paperbacks was just a waste. The fonts/line spacing/paper for higher quality volumes make it worth the extra money. Just think of the quality reading experience you will get in return ;-)

As long as you budget properly, you will be able to manage. I love reading posts by FS group members who talk about spending 20% to 30% on their income on FS books! I don't think I will go that crazy if I join; FS publishes a wide range of titles, many of which do not align with my specific literary tastes. This means that there are only a select few books I will impulsively buy, and that I can manage that.

LOA on the other hand is much more tempting. Based on my subscription order form, I am planning to purchase about $550 worth of books over the next two or three years. Only $25 a month though, and, as I said before, the value is incredible. Try buying all of Steinbeck or Nabokov's books new individually. That would cost you much more than the LOA sets, and they would be crappy paperbacks. I want my books to have the 'new' look and feel for longer than a few years.

Have you joined FS yet? I am looking for someone I can join with as a sort of "if you do it I will to" deal. I need peer pressure!

I am considering joining LOA and was wondering about the quality of the books themselves. Specifically, are they illustrated at all? From what I've gathered, they seem to be a step above typical mass-produced hardcovers but aren't quite in the same league as FS or EP. Is that accurate? What draws me to LOA is the value of the books, but I'm also curious about their quality.

>61 johnbean9: Specifically, are they illustrated at all?

No except for the few books that are illustrations only (Lynd's novels). The idea of the LOA books is to provide authoritative texts in nice editions so there are no illustrations, thick paper (the paper is nice, durable and thin) and are all sewn.

They are a different thing from EP or Folio though - quality-wise I would say that they are the same league but it depends on what you are looking for. LOA do not have fancy covers and bindings and fonts - but it does have the text of the works in affordable package that won't fall apart in 10 years.

From what i've gathered in my short time here they are probably equivalent in quality to Everyman's Library. From their site:

"The paper is acid-free and meets the requirements for permanence set by the American National Standards Institute; it will not turn yellow or brittle. The books are bound with the grain of the paper to ensure that they open easily and lie flat without crinkling or buckling."

"The binding cloth is durable woven rayon, dyed in the thread for richness of color. Handsome endsheets match the binding cloth and add to the visual unity of the series. The books are Smyth-sewn for permanence and flexibility, and each includes a ribbon marker."

So not the quality of what you'd get from FS. But tremendous quality and value nonetheless. If i've missed the mark please feel free to correct me.

I think we have somewhat similar plans. I'm planning on filling out my classics library between LOA and EL.

I haven't joined FS but i can tell it's just a matter of time. What really scares me is a lot of the volumes i want are books i don't know. But the artistry, and craftsmanship are irresistible. Is it odd that a man in his 30's wants to start collecting children's and fairy books? Maybe. Before stumbling onto this site and FS i had no idea bookmaking was such a high art.

>64 luvthefloyd: Is it odd that a man in his 30's wants to start collecting children's and fairy books?

No. It is odd for anyone to claim that they are too grown up for fairy tales and children's classics :)

>63 luvthefloyd: So not the quality of what you'd get from FS
You really need to define quality here :) The FS books are prettier and more imaginative but if we really talk about quality (bookbinding, materials used, durability and so on), both are comparable - LOA can even be winning...

"You really need to define quality here :) The FS books are prettier and more imaginative but if we really talk about quality (bookbinding, materials used, durability and so on), both are comparable - LOA can even be winning..."

You're right and that was in the back of my head when i wrote that. I'm guessing that LOA and EL are both machine made. So strictly from a quality of build standpoint probably better than FS.

Although FS seems to have a much greater psychic appeal. (:

>61 johnbean9: - LOA volumes are cloth bound, Smyth-sewn, and the paper is archival grade. They even cut the paper along the 'grain' for printing. The bindings are also incredibly flexible and won't crack or break with standard use.

Compared to Everyman's Library, I'd say they are a couple steps above. Everyman's sometimes glues their bindings (see the Everyman's group thread on this), and the volumes have a more mass-market feel, in my opinion.

As for LOA illustrations, there are a few volumes from the regular series with pen-and-ink type drawings featured at chapter headings. I recall seeing some in my Steinbeck set, and I have seen them featured in a YouTube/book haul video.

Best of all, if you are a subscriber, the volumes come shipped in beautiful cream-colored slipcases (sans dust jacket, though).

I buy LOA volumes because I know they often contain the complete works of an author in their definitive texts. I buy Heritage Press and Folio Society volumes on the second-hand market for their aesthetic appeal and illustrations. It depends on what your purpose/tastes are, I suppose. Hope this helps.

I have over 100 LOA books and over 200 FS. LOA wins on value and as a collection on the shelf every time. Individual FS volumes are nice, No doubt. It's in many ways like comparing apples with oranges. However bang for buck, without compromising on quality,the the Library of America wins by a mile.

Thanks for the feedback, LOA collectors. You have confirmed what I suspected about the good quality of the LOA books. I already knew they were a tremendous value. And I see on the Steinbeck offer page that one of his stories is illustrated, so that answered one of my questions :) Now to decide which sign-up offer I want ...

>69 johnbean9: I went with the Steinbeck offer, but some of the non-fiction/American history sets would be a great deal. I had my eye on the Lincoln + Grant volumes for awhile. Lincoln is supposed to be the best 'writing' president.

LOA also has the best customer service I have ever dealt with. Even emailing customer service gets a response within a couple of hours 8/10 times! Very friendly folks. I am so happy to be a subscriber.

One thing about LOA books I haven't seen specifically mentioned here is the size which is uniform and fits more comfortably in the hand than any other book set I've owned or own. One problem with my Heritage Society edition of Brothers Karamazov, for instance, is that it's eleven inches tall, eight inches wide, four inches deep and weighs thirty pounds. Now I ask you, is this a book to be read or displayed? The fact that LOA books lay flat when opened means I can set the book down open at the page I'm reading and, barring a gust of wind, it will stay open at that page. I'd rather read an LOA book than any other book I own. If your aim is to acquire books to display I don't think LOA is necessarily right for the job, but if you buy books to read, I don't think you can do better.

>71 geneg: Agreed. I have that same Heritage Press edition of the Brothers Karamazov, and it is a beast! I do enjoy reading larger, more decorative books (bigger margins, more interesting font treatments), but nothing feels as nice as an LOA volume in the palm of my left hand. Perfect form factor.

>71 geneg:, 72

As long as the big books can open flat - no worries. I rarely read with the book in my lap (except when I read in my chair that is... but that does not happen often) - it is usually on a table or on the bed... :)

> 71 etc. I love the feel of an LOA book in my hand. The size and the quality of the binding produce a 1200 page book I can read holding it in one hand. I have noticed that over the years the paper is changing. It seems a little thicker in some of the current volumes.
I read a lot of history and several of the LOA volumes were cited in Empire of Liberty a volume in the Oxford History of the United States series. I think that puts the scholarly stamp of approval on the accuracy of the books.
I know I am being finicky but after I bought the FS edition of Gibbon I discovered that for some reason they abridged the footnotes. I compared it to the Modern Library edition and they cut out about one-half of them.
LOA has introduced me to a lot of literature I never read before, particularly poetry. For me a value point for the LOA volumes is that they have several books in each volume. That means I am really paying eight to fifteen dollars per book.

>71 geneg:, 72

Although I sympathize with those who complain about large books such as the Heritage Press Karamazov, I am more than willing to put up with having to read the book on a table or a lap desk to get the illustrations, and especially, the large print for which my aging eyes are most grateful.

I have the FS Kelmscott Chaucer. The elephant in the room.

I'm definitely willing to make some size and weight sacrifices for ornate covers/bindings, huge illustrations, and high quality paper.

I am a subscriber to both the FS and the LOA. It is a wonderful world that allows us both.

I also have a collection of the older Franklin Library full leather bound books. I am still in the process of slowly getting these entered on my Library Thing List.

Easton Press - not so much.