Bleak House Group Read

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Bleak House Group Read

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1Helenliz
Edited: Jan 2, 2014, 3:33 am

I suspect I'm not the only person who's trying to get ahead of this one - that being an awful lot of book to read in one month - and so I've started already. in which case I figured I may as well kick of the general chit chat with a group read thread.

How are you finding it so far?





2japaul22
Dec 29, 2013, 12:43 pm

I'll be joining but I have a few books to finish up first. That probably means I won't be finishing it it January, but hopefully there will be others in the same boat.

3cbl_tn
Dec 29, 2013, 1:01 pm

I'm in! I have it downloaded on my ereader and ready to go. I've read the preface and I may start the book tomorrow or Tuesday. I'm hoping that I can read two chapters a day and finish it at the end of the month.

4Britt84
Dec 29, 2013, 1:17 pm

I'm in too :) I got the book from the library, but I'm on holiday now and decided it was too heavy to bring along, so, it's back home waiting for me and I'll be starting it in January :)

5mamzel
Dec 29, 2013, 2:01 pm

I have it on my Kindle and intend to start it when I finish my current book. Hopefully, I'll be able to finish a good amount of it while I'm on break.

6rabbitprincess
Dec 29, 2013, 4:56 pm

Starting it tonight as my bedside book. I read the first quarter or so a couple of years ago but have to start over again.

7Carmenere
Dec 29, 2013, 5:18 pm

I started it a few days ago and I'm on chapter 5. It's slow reading 'cause there are a lot of characters to digest.

8BookLizard
Dec 29, 2013, 7:31 pm

I'm thinking about "cheating" and watching the miniseries as I read to help me follow the story and keep the characters straight.

9Carmenere
Dec 29, 2013, 7:56 pm

Great idea! I'll check into it. Awe, that's not really cheating it's just supplementing your reading experience ;0)

10rabbitprincess
Dec 29, 2013, 9:14 pm

The Gillian Anderson one? I had to return it to the library before I was finished (for some reason it was only a one-week loan and there were holds on it so I couldn't renew), but what I saw of it was great. Might need to borrow it again.

11Carmenere
Dec 29, 2013, 9:25 pm

I see Netflix has two versions, Denis Lawson (2005) and another from (1985) with Diana Rigg. Can anyone offer a suggestion as to which one is the better of the two?

12mamzel
Dec 29, 2013, 10:52 pm

Diana Rigg would have my vote but I haven't seen either of them.

13Britt84
Dec 30, 2013, 2:35 am

I usually prefer to wait with watching series/movies until after I've read the book. My edition has a list of characters at the beginning, so I think that will be useful; it's quite a long list :P

14Helenliz
Dec 30, 2013, 3:05 am

13> That does sound helpful. There are a number to keep track of already.

15BookLizard
Dec 30, 2013, 8:48 am

I watched the first episode of Bleak House last night. It's the 2005 BBC miniseries with Gillian Anderson and Denis Lawson. It's available to stream from Amazon (free for Amazon Prime members). I had to stop myself after one episode. I'm not allowed to watch the next one until I catch up with the reading. ;-)

After the first two chapters, it really picks up. The miniseries is pretty faithful to the novel, but takes some artistic liberties in arranging how/when scenes are presented to us. (Much of Esther's background is presented in brief flashbacks in the miniseries.) I was thrown at first in Chapter 3 when the narrative switched to the first person - (why would Charles Dickens have a Dolly?) - but I figured it out quickly enough and I find the story is much more engaging now.

16Yells
Dec 30, 2013, 10:17 am

15 - I watched the BBC series last year while trying to read the book. I finished the miniseries (and loved it!) but gave up on the book because I just didn't have time (probably because I was too busy watching the miniseries). I might try again but since I am moving mid-January, I probably won't get far.

17Carmenere
Dec 30, 2013, 2:47 pm

I chose the 2005 version with Gilliam Anderson because it rec'd more stars than the 1985 version.
The first episode was great and I"ll only watch them as I finish that particular section of the book, which I must say, I am enjoying as well.

18andreablythe
Dec 30, 2013, 2:55 pm

Just requested my copy from the library. Looking forward to the read. :)

19rabbitprincess
Edited: Dec 30, 2013, 7:57 pm

>15 BookLizard:: I laughed out loud at the idea of Charles Dickens having a dolly! Especially because I've been picturing Ralph Fiennes as Charles Dickens in The Invisible Woman narrating the first couple of chapters.

According to my Goodreads notes, I got up to page 161 last time. Hoping to get further ahead this time!

20mamzel
Dec 31, 2013, 3:38 pm

I started it this morning and will refer to the study guide on the Gradesaver website to make sure I don't miss anything. I feel like such a geek reading on my ereader and referring to my tablet. I guess technology isn't so bad.

21Zozette
Dec 31, 2013, 5:34 pm

I have just started it. I have it both as an e-book and an audio book and will switching between the two formats depending on what I am doing.

22Her_Royal_Orangeness
Jan 1, 2014, 11:23 am

Is anyone using the Norton annotated edition? I'm wondering if it's worth investing in.

23Helenliz
Jan 1, 2014, 2:11 pm

Seems this is a popular selection for a group read, as it's also a group read in the 75 books challenge group.

thread link: http://www.librarything.com/topic/163277

it'll be interesting to compare the discussions.

24mamzel
Jan 1, 2014, 3:47 pm

I'm up to chapter 16 and having so much fun with Dickens' puns and fun with names. One example that had me bursting aloud with laughter was a line about "my lady Dedlock" who was always bored. During a long carriage ride with her husband she asked about the correspondence he was reading.

She is fatigued with reading. Has almost read a page in twenty miles.

His metaphors aren't very subtle, are they? The comparison of poor parenting and government not taking care of the governed are quite glaring.

One of the things I like in this book after some of my previous reads, is the lack of religion (at least so far) except that young Richard flatly refuses to consider it for a choice of career.

25Zozette
Jan 1, 2014, 3:57 pm

I used to have a friend who reminds me of Mrs Jellyby. She would would always be helping others while neglecting her own 5 children. Her house was a mess though she liked people to see her doing the gardening - only her front garden was neat, her back garden was as bad as the inside of the home.

26gennyt
Jan 2, 2014, 7:04 pm

I read this many, many years ago when it was a set text for my A Levels (High School final exams). Didn't really think I liked it at the time but the characters and atmosphere of it have stayed with me and grown on me over the years, and when the BBC did their excellent serialisation of it (the 2005 one) I was glad to re-visit the story again.

I don't think I want to go so far as to read the book again myself but I'll be following this thread from time to time to share your reading experiences.

27punkypower
Jan 2, 2014, 7:32 pm

I'm on chapter seven right now, and really struggling. I feel like I'm not taking anything in, actual plot or metaphor. :(

Please tell me this book will start to make more sense as I go on!!

28Helenliz
Jan 3, 2014, 3:27 am

I'm finding a disconnect between the passages narrated by Esther and those by the narrator. I am assuming that these will all come together into a whole at some point, but it's eluding me at present.

29laura_88
Jan 3, 2014, 7:44 am

I started the book yesterday. I'm only at the third chapter. I calculated that if I read about 30 pages per day, I would finish the book in the end of January... My paperback copy of the book has 936 pages. I probably watch the BBC-series after I finish the book. Luckily my library has the series so I can borrow it from there.

30pupukorganik
Jan 3, 2014, 9:21 am

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31mamzel
Jan 3, 2014, 12:38 pm

Mr. Turveydrop has got to be one of the ridiculously useless people I have ever come across. Can there really have been people like that??? I have no problem believing the abject characters that people Dickens' books.
I have reached 33% on my Kindle and still meeting new characters.

32Zozette
Jan 3, 2014, 5:37 pm

I don't think I personally have meant anyone as useless as Mr Turveydrop.

I am about 1/4 through the book. There certainly is a lot of characters to remember. I am glad that, most of the time, I am reading the e-book and listening to audiobook as the same time as I don't think I would retaining as much if I was only reading.

I am enjoying Esther's narration more that of the other narrator. However I think Esther is coming across as a bit to nice for my liking.

33rabbitprincess
Jan 3, 2014, 9:29 pm

As I read this, I'm trying to remember my impressions from my first attempt and figure out whether my memories are from the book or the miniseries. The actors from the miniseries are at the very least filling my mind's eye as I read.

34lkernagh
Jan 4, 2014, 11:24 am

Loving the conversation here and have now placed a hold for the 205 adaptation of Bleak Houseas I am sure I am missing some of the subtler points. I am currently in the middle of Chapter 6. Need to go find that Gradesaver website mamzel mentions......

Happy reading everyone!

35mamzel
Jan 4, 2014, 12:35 pm

Lori, it really has been helping. They talk about chapters in bunches of three or four so I read those chapters and then review them. With all of the characters to keep straight, it is most helpful since they remind me when I last saw them and what they are up to. I finished Chap. 29 this morning and pieces are starting to come together. We finally meet a family that is hale and healthy. I love how the father recommends that his wife be allowed to finish fixing dinner and cleaning up so she can turn her full attention to the question brought to them. After she gives her verdict there is no more discussion. She is totally trusted for her wise counsel. It is such a refreshingly normal moment.

36Yells
Jan 4, 2014, 3:42 pm

I am up to chapter 13 (after many, many aborted attempts over the years) and I am really liking it. I am not sure why I never progressed until now but I think size and lack of time might have factored in. I did see the mini series last year so I am definitely putting faces to names (which helps to keep everyone straight).

37cbl_tn
Jan 4, 2014, 5:09 pm

I've finished chapter 6 and I was really excited to learn that Bleak House is near St. Albans. I used to live in St. Albans!

38mamzel
Jan 4, 2014, 5:13 pm

So many have mentioned this mini series I will watch it after I've finished reading the book. I'm afraid that I might not finish the reading if I watch it first.

39BookLizard
Jan 5, 2014, 1:05 pm

38> I'm watching and episode then reading up to, or a little bit past it, in the book. I haven't gotten very far, but plan to work on it some more tonight.

28> If you don't mind spoilers, the summary over at GradeSavers tells you Esther's secret - which I had guessed already from the miniseries, not apparent at all in the book.

40lindapanzo
Jan 5, 2014, 1:24 pm

I totally forgot about this and will get cracking on it. I make no promises though. Over the years, I've started it probably 3 or 4 times and never got past the first two chapters.

41Carmenere
Jan 5, 2014, 1:48 pm

May I suggest, Linda, that if you're able, watch at least the 1st episode of the 2005 BBC mini-series. It really helped me visualize the characters and enjoy the book much more than I could 've imagined.

42japaul22
Edited: Jan 5, 2014, 2:13 pm

I'm in chapter 7 and enjoying it so far. I'm definitely in the right mood for it. I intend to watch the 2005 mini-series, but I think I'll hold out either until I'm confused to the point of losing interest or until after I finish, whichever comes first!

I had a really hard time getting into Great Expectations when I read it 2 years ago even though I ended up liking it, but this book I was interested in right away.

43mamzel
Jan 5, 2014, 3:09 pm

I'm past the 50% mark so it should be downhill (so the speak) from here. I'm watching Downton Abbey on PBS today to warm up for tonight.

44Helenliz
Jan 5, 2014, 3:37 pm

I hit 1/3 of the way through today. Parts are beginning to come together.

45ALWINN
Jan 6, 2014, 9:01 am

I also have already watched the 2005 mini series and I am very impressed that beside a few events mixed around it goes really well with the book and I am also putting alot of the faces from the mini series with the characters in the book which I think makes everything come alive even more. The only character that didnt fit was Julie Smallweed but then again I dont think that would be possible unless it was a good makeup job.

46andreablythe
Jan 8, 2014, 12:37 am

Just got my copy and I'm started in.... apparently there's a lot of fog.

47Carmenere
Jan 8, 2014, 8:54 am

I can't believe it! I finished Bleak House. I spent the whole of yesterday in my warm reading room and read and read and read and now it's done! Yippee!

and yes, andreablythe there is quite a lot of fog at the start and "black drizzle" yuck

48ALWINN
Jan 8, 2014, 9:48 am

Im jealous I wish I had a warm and cozy reading room where all my books are safe etc.....

I was sure hoping to be at the half way mark but I didnt get very much reading time in because of a very crabby 3 month old and as you know if a 3 month old is not happy NOBODY in the house is happy. But hopefully tonight.

49mamzel
Jan 8, 2014, 1:35 pm

I'm up to chapter 50 and things are really moving along now. Marriages, murders, secrets revealed. I even shed a few tears over Jo. He made me think of the boy in Milkweed by Spinelli who had no idea who he was. A child of the streets.

50Zozette
Jan 8, 2014, 4:44 pm

I am up to chapter 28 which means I should finish it around the 20th. I am also reading another lighter book - it depends on my mood which one I am in the mood to read - so this has slowed down my Bleak House reading a little.

I like Jo, poor little thing he is.

51crystalpuppy
Jan 8, 2014, 5:08 pm

BookLizard is going to cheat! hhhhuuuhhh!!! anyway i read all of the books you were talking about

52andreablythe
Jan 8, 2014, 5:14 pm

Just finished Chapter 3. Esther's "journal" narration is much easier to read than the general narrator. Makes things go smoother.

53mamzel
Jan 8, 2014, 5:43 pm

Crystal puppy, I don't think anyone cheats around here. Is this something you do? I looked at your page and want to make sure you are old enough to be a member of LibraryThing. Are you 13 yet?

54BookLizard
Jan 8, 2014, 8:33 pm

53> It's OK, I'm not offended. I said I was "cheating" by watching the miniseries. It's only real cheating if you watch the movie instead of reading the book.

55Britt84
Edited: Jan 9, 2014, 12:29 am

I've started yesterday (I have a terrible cold, so I snuggled up under the blankets with a big book and a big mug of hot chocolate :) ); I really enjoyed the Jellyby's, what a family! I'm only at chapter 6, but it's been good so far, so looking forward to the rest of the novel :)

56Yells
Edited: Jan 9, 2014, 12:43 pm

I am about halfway through and I like it so far but man, there are way too many characters. If he cut out half of them and nixed a few hundred pages, it would flow so much better.

I love all the little puns (foodle, moodle, noodle) and play-on-words that he uses. Every once in awhile I chuckle and my husband looks over questioningly. You wouldn't think with a title like Bleak House, there would be anything to giggle about!

I watched the mini-series so I already know happens but it's neat to read it all unfold. I should finish this weekend.

57lindapanzo
Jan 9, 2014, 12:41 pm

For the first time, in about 4 or 5 attempts, I've gotten past the first chapter. Only on chapter 3 but, maybe this time, I'll carry on with it.

58Nickelini
Jan 9, 2014, 12:55 pm

Bleak House is my favourite Dickens. I studied it at university, which was really fun. I made myself a character list as I went, which really helped.

I haven't checked out the GradeSaver website, but I want to throw in Shmoop-- http://www.shmoop.com/bleak-house/ -- I find their information very helpful, and they often have a great sense of humour too.

You wouldn't think with a title like Bleak House, there would be anything to giggle about!

I know! I was very daunted by it when it was assigned--my edition was over 1000 pages long, and I expected suffering, work houses, and more suffering. When I found it so much lighter and funnier, I was shocked. Kept waiting for the dire peril to show up. That's probably why it's a favourite of mine.

59Carmenere
Jan 9, 2014, 1:57 pm

#56 You wouldn't think with a title like Bleak House, there would be anything to giggle about!
So true, bucketyell. I bet in today's world of marketing there's no way they'd publish a book by that name that wasn't in the horror genre.

#57 go linda, go linda, go linda!

#58 It was so not what I expected and deserves a reread in a year or so.

60mamzel
Jan 9, 2014, 1:58 pm

I got up to chapter 60 this morning. What a ride. Enjoyed the first ever "reveal" penned where Bucket arrests the real murderer. The next events had me up and down as a son is reunited with a mother and Lady Dedlock runs away to avoid embarrassing her husband. A dark and frigid race through the country (reminded me of chase in Dracula) showed us how dedicated Bucket was to justice. I should be able to finish this masterpiece tomorrow.

61Helenliz
Jan 9, 2014, 2:02 pm

I have to admit I'm stalled at chapter 25. not because I'm not enjoying it but because I was reading it over the holidays & I'm now back at work. I could get used to being a lady of leisure, lounging around on the sofa reading to my heart's content.

62andreablythe
Jan 9, 2014, 2:18 pm

>57 lindapanzo:
Linda, the first chapter was a struggle for me, too. Really dense writing. But in Chapter 3 (I think), Esther begins to tell the story from her point of view and it's a much easier read.

63lindapanzo
Jan 9, 2014, 2:24 pm

#59/62 Glad to hear. Thanks. This was "strongly recommended" summer reading for a course for me about 30 years ago. Obviously, I never read it.

I might pick up my pace but, if I can read 2 chapters per evening, I can finish it by mid-February.

64LittleTaiko
Jan 9, 2014, 2:45 pm

I'm only on chapter 5 but agree with the above posts regarding Esther's narrative. Once I got to that chapter I found myself much more engaged and on the brink of being caught up in the book.

65mamzel
Jan 9, 2014, 3:01 pm

This "lady of leisure" works for a school district with a three week winter break to accomodate a large number of students who travel to Mexico to visit family. I take full advantage of this time to tackle something like this book which would otherwise take me months to read. Since I go back to work Monday and I have projects around the house I want to accomplish before then, I'm in a little hurry to get this story done. I'm glad this group read was this month to give me the incentive and opportunity to read Bleak House.

66cbl_tn
Jan 9, 2014, 5:12 pm

I'm reading two chapters a day on weekdays and three a day on weekends. If I stick to that schedule I'll finish by the end of the month.

I also like the chapters narrated by Esther better than those by the omniscient narrator. I'm up to chapter 20 and she's my favorite character so far.

67lindapanzo
Jan 9, 2014, 5:29 pm

Glad to hear that, Carrie. Maybe I can boost my reading output a bit on the weekends, too. It'd be nice to have this finished by the time the Winter Olympics start, on Feb 7th, I believe.

68Carmenere
Jan 9, 2014, 6:36 pm

I have to admit, being retired AND not leaving my house for three days due to the Polar Vortex helped me to stay focused and on task. If this were read in summer, it would be a complete fail.

69Britt84
Jan 10, 2014, 1:16 am

Well, I guess that polar vortex is good for something after all ;)
Out here it's been pretty warm for the time of year, but it's also raining a lot, so it is the right type of weather to stay inside and read big chunky books.

70mamzel
Jan 10, 2014, 11:58 am

Finished! While I find this book a real marvel I know I will never read it again. So many words! I understand that he was writing for a paper so was paid by volume but I get the impression that people used ever so many more words in regular conversation than we do now.

His characters will always be remembered since they were described at such lengths. Their actions were fully listed so that I almost had a little movie going in my head. Am I correct in using the term hyperbole to name the way that each character epitomizes his or her place in society? The kindly guardian, the oily lawyer, the tragic young boy from the street, the young man unable to take care of himself, the woman obsessed with a far away place neglecting those nearer to her, etc. are drawn in perfect detail.

I love how he manages to give us surprises along the way in the form of long-lost family. How they were separated and never managed to find each other until the right time suited the story and kept the reader's interest as to what could come next.

When I finished I tried to imagine how any characters could be cut to shorten the book but couldn't come up with one that didn't benefit the story in some way.

Would I have read this book in paper form - highly unlikely. I think that being able to read it on my kindle gave me the incentive to finish it. The size of a paper book and tiny print would have overwhelmed me and the remaining thickness would have daunted me early on. As I slowly watched the percentages tick by at the bottom of the page I became more and more sure that I would be able to finish it.

So, Mr. Dickens, it is with glad heart that I set you aside and move on to more modern authors. Thanks for this marvelous adventure!

71andreablythe
Jan 10, 2014, 12:47 pm

Woah, excellent job, mamzel! Your review is encouraging. :)

72BookLizard
Jan 10, 2014, 1:57 pm

70> Even the ebook has tiny type! I have to bump the font up a size whenever I read Bleak House.

73Carmenere
Jan 10, 2014, 2:21 pm

70 Great comments, mamzel! When I wrote my review I was about to write - the book needed a good editor, but then, I stopped myself because I began thinking about what should be cut and, like you, I couldn't think of anything!

74mamzel
Jan 10, 2014, 5:00 pm

One thing that occurred to me as I read it - it was all written BY HAND! My hand cramped just to think of it.

75Zozette
Jan 10, 2014, 5:31 pm

I think the best way to read it would have been as it was first published as 20 monthly instalments. I can imagine the original readers sitting around discussing the ins and out each instalment and I imagine that such discussions helped them remember the characters more easily than if the book is read from cover to cover over a much shorter period of time.

76March-Hare
Jan 10, 2014, 8:28 pm

>47 Carmenere:,70 You are triathletes of reading! I am about 200 pages in and enjoying it more than I thought I would. Maybe I'll be done middle of February. I'm currently detouring through Nabokov's lecture on Dickens and finding it well worth the time.

77mamzel
Jan 10, 2014, 11:18 pm

Zozette, kind of like how we discuss the latest episode of Downton Abbey?

78richardderus
Edited: Jan 11, 2014, 12:08 am

Although I myownself would rather eat ground glass than read another Dickens book, I found this on Pinterest and thought it might be amusing to the assembled company:

79Zozette
Jan 11, 2014, 1:07 am

#mamzel - with me it is latest episodes of Dr Who and Sherlock which I discuss with my best friend. I have been banned from discussing Game of Thrones as I have read all five books and I sometimes accidentally give minor spoilers.

My best friend usually tells me what programs I will like. She has known me for 28 years and is usually right about such things, and she told me I wouldn't like Downton Abbey so I haven't even watched an episode.

80Britt84
Jan 11, 2014, 1:07 am

That's lovely, Richard, I will try to do so :)

I have by now reached chapter 20 and all sorts of things are happening; I think it's really going to get interesting now, with questions of Esther's background coming up and I'm real curious to see how things will turn out and how everything will come together in the end.
I do hpe Richard Carstone will finally put in some effort and get himself settled into a career of sorts, but I'm not getting my hopes up :P

81danielde
Jan 11, 2014, 3:05 am

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82japaul22
Jan 11, 2014, 8:56 am

I'm about a third of the way through and also enjoying this much more than I thought I would. Have you all read other books by Dickens? My past experience with his books has been generally good. I love A Tale of Two Cities (best first and last lines in literature!) and A Christmas Carol, thought Great Expectations was ok, and hated David Copperfield, though I was in high school when I read that so I should probably give it another try.

Just wanted to mention that we have a first quarter group biography read of The Short Life and Long Times of Mrs. Beeton. It is the biography of a woman in the Victorian era whose writing on homemaking, cooking, etc. was the standard in England for the Victorian era and beyond. I think it's a pretty interesting companion to reading Dickens since in addition to a biography, it explores the social customs and trends in housekeeping and everyday living of the time. We'll be discussing the book in March if anyone wants to join in!

http://www.librarything.com/topic/161670

83cbl_tn
Jan 11, 2014, 9:36 am

I've read all the Dickens books you've mentioned, plus Oliver Twist and The Old Curiosity Shop. David Copperfield is among my all-time favorite reads. Do give it another try!

84March-Hare
Jan 11, 2014, 9:39 am

I think for the purposes of this thread we should all make up Dickensian names for ourselves.

I'll be Mr. Crumbledump.

85BookLizard
Edited: Jan 11, 2014, 10:18 am

84> I'll be Lady Felis . . . and a bit crazy like Miss Flite. ;-)

86Helenliz
Jan 11, 2014, 10:51 am

The thing I'm finding interesting about the writing is the way the language is used. He quite often describes people using the phrase "... is not unlike ..." which to the modern ear is a double negative and long winded. And you need to pay attention to the double negative, as it's easy to read it swiftly and miss the meaning.
That and some of the spellings in the version I'm reading are interesting. I think it was faithfuller that attracted my attention - we'd say more faithful now.
I'm at just over half way now - Esther's parentage is becoming clearer and I'm intrigued as to what's going to happen there.

87andreablythe
Jan 11, 2014, 11:34 am

I just finished Chapter 11 and someone is dead. I'm still having a hard time reading the non-Esther chapters. They seem so much drier or denser in language or something and I find myself wanting to skim to just get through them, but if I do, then I can't figure out what's going on.

Also, I just now realized that all that fog at the beginning was symbolic of the obscurity from truth going on in the law courts, which is a cool use of symbolism.

88lindapanzo
Jan 11, 2014, 11:48 am

Back in school, years ago, I loved Dickens. David Copperfield, A Tale of Two Cities, Great Expectations etc. However, I haven't read him in quite awhile but I am enjoying this one, though, so far, only in small doses at a time.

Hearing from people who are farther along and really loving it is giving me encouragement t stick with it. Thanks.

89cbl_tn
Jan 11, 2014, 12:04 pm

Does anyone know if the Smallweeds are supposed to be Jewish? I wondered at the mention of old Mr. Smallweed wearing a skullcap, but I'm afraid to do an internet search for the answer in case I run into spoilers.

90Britt84
Jan 11, 2014, 12:57 pm

I'm finding it really cool that Dickens writes in such different styles for the Esther-pieces and the narrator-pieces. I think it really shows his skill as a writer. Though the pieces told by Esther are indeed easier to read, I do like the pieces by the narrator, I think they're very beautifully written.

>89 cbl_tn: I was thinking the same thing; also because he's a money-lender, which very much used to be a Jewish profession.

I thought that I had already met quite a number of characters, and then Dickens threw in another set of characters, who initially seemed completely unrelated to the other characters (the smallweeds among them). Guess we still need the story to get more complex before all issues can be resolved :P

91Zozette
Edited: Jan 11, 2014, 3:42 pm

84> Not sure about a Dickensian name for myself but I think at least two of my ancestors - Priscilla Cratchley and Maltilda Snellgrove - might have has a name suitable for a Dickens' character.

Likewise a couple of my grandmother's half-brothers - Aldinga Figg and Eldred Lavington Figg.

92cbl_tn
Jan 11, 2014, 3:23 pm

>84 March-Hare: Well, today I'd have to go along with Coodle and Doodle and call myself Miss Poodle since my weekend is revolving around dogs! (Mine plus the one I'm dog sitting for.)

93PiyushC
Jan 11, 2014, 3:40 pm

#78 Ha! Caught Richard lurking in the Dickens group read!

I am awe-fully behind, at my pace of nearly 10 pages a day on weekdays, 0 on weekends, a March-end ending seems probably.

94mamzel
Jan 11, 2014, 3:42 pm

Marchhare, what a brilliant suggestion. Hmmm! I think people would recognize me by the name Mrs. Graybottom.

95lsh63
Jan 13, 2014, 7:45 am

I'm at Chapter 24, and the book is moving along at a nice pace for me. I think I have most of the major characters straight, the minor characters maybe not so much.

I do agree with most of the posts here, that Esther's narratives are maybe easier to read?

If I keep up my pace of two or three chapters a day I should finish sometime this month. It helps that I am reading it on the nook.

96Carmenere
Jan 13, 2014, 9:02 am

95 go Lisa, go Lisa, go Lisa! You can do it!

97March-Hare
Edited: Jan 13, 2014, 8:00 pm

>87 andreablythe: One of the things I found useful in Nabokov's lecture was his description of several themes, symbolic and otherwise. The fog is one, another is cages.

>90 Britt84: In the interest of starting a discussion, I'll point out that Nabokov disagrees with you. He finds that Esther often slips into Dickens voice. If I remember correctly, he even called the whole Esther narrative thing "a mistake".

>91 Zozette: Whoa! That is awesome.

98Nickelini
Jan 13, 2014, 8:03 pm

It's been a few years since I read Bleak House, but I remember liking the distant narrator quite a bit better than Esther. I find her whole character a bit annoying--she's too pure and perfect (as heroines in Dickens often tend to be).

Dickens names --- everything mentioned has been wonderful. I'm still thinking of something for myself. While pondering, I decided that Benedict Cumberbatch sounds like someone out of Dickens.

99March-Hare
Jan 13, 2014, 8:29 pm

>98 Nickelini: Yes, I would suggest that her slipping into Dickens voice is what gives her the air of being too perfect. Her observations are a bit too keen at times for what she is supposed to be.

One more point from Nabokov. He calls Mr. Jarndyce one of the kindest figures ever portrayed in fiction. Interesting to consider in relation to Esther.

100rabbitprincess
Edited: Jan 14, 2014, 5:52 pm

>98 Nickelini:: Agreed! :)

Edit to clarify I was agreeing with the comment about Dickens names.

101Zozette
Jan 14, 2014, 3:43 am

I am 90% through the book - on the home straight. I should finish the book tomorrow, or maybe the day after.

Through I have enjoyed it I can't imagine that I will ever read it again.

102laura_88
Jan 14, 2014, 5:18 am

I finished the book yesterday and liked it alot. Towards the end it became a real page-turner. This was only the second book by Dickens I have ever read, the first was Great Expectations. I plan to read more Dickens in the future, but because the books tend to be so long, I think one Dickens per year is a reasonable goal. Now I can start watching the BBC adaptation which I got from the library yesterday.

103andreablythe
Jan 14, 2014, 12:52 pm

>97 March-Hare: & 99
Oh, cages. I hadn't noticed that one, but now I remember many mentions of birds in cages. I'll have to keep an eye out for those.

"He calls Mr. Jarndyce one of the kindest figures ever portrayed in fiction. Interesting to consider in relation to Esther."
That is interesting to think about, because for all her "purity" and love for her friends, she's also kind of.... I don't know what to call it, but it's not so much out of kindness that she does what she does. She's been trapped in her life and has little control over it. Her adaptability to others is as much survival as it is any form of kindness.

As for Mr. Jarndyce, I don't know. As much as every action he's done so far has been kind and good (I'm only about 1/3 through the book), I keep expecting him to have some ulterior motive. It's hard to believe their whole little group could be so perfect (even though Richard is so wishy-washy about some things).

104mamzel
Jan 14, 2014, 2:51 pm

Andrea, I think we are conditioned the think about an older man having evil intentions on a naive, trusting, young woman.

It's funny, I never really considered the cages as a theme as much as the trapped birds inside them. I figured they were like a metaphor for people being trapped by conditions beyond their control.

105Zozette
Jan 14, 2014, 11:53 pm

I have finally finished. I enjoyed the novel but I thought it was a little wordy. My favourite characters were Jo, Mr Bucket and Miss Flite. John John Jarndyce and Esther were a little too nice for me. In fact some of the time I felt like slapping Esther because I found her annoying even though I like her narration more than that of the other narrator.

The character I liked the least was Harold Skimpole.

106Helenliz
Jan 15, 2014, 1:48 am

Esther's illness doesn't seem to be detailed exactly in the edition I have, and isn't in the notes either. I'm imagining it to be smallpox, but has anyone else got any thoughts on what it's likely to be?

There's a great section on the state of politics at the beginning of chapter 40. I'm beginning to think that Dickens can be a bit sharp, but hides his criticisms under some flowery language that looks like a compliment - with a sting in the tail.

107Nickelini
Jan 15, 2014, 3:43 am

I thought they said smallpox, but maybe it was my professor who said it and I didn't notice the difference

108Zozette
Jan 15, 2014, 4:34 am

The disease isn't named in the book but I think it is logical to assume that it was smallpox.

109March-Hare
Jan 15, 2014, 8:00 pm

>103 andreablythe: A portion of Nabokov's comments on Esther's voice:

...when Kenge takes matters into his hands, the style of Esther's narrative reverts to a general Dickensian style. For instance, Kenge petting his glasses: "'Not of Jarndyce and Jarndyce?' said Mr. Kenge, looking over his glasses at me, and softly turning the case about and about, as if he were petting something." One can see what is happening. Dickens starts painting the delightful picture of Kenge, smooth round Kenge, Conversation Kenge (as he is nicknamed), and quite forgets it is a naïve girl who is supposed to be writing all this. And within a few pages we already find samples of Dickensian imagery creeping into her narrative, rich comparisons and the like.

110March-Hare
Jan 15, 2014, 8:24 pm

One more from Nabokov, can't resist:

He has just been discussing the scene where Esther visits the seaport Deal.

Some readers may suppose that such things as these evocations are trifles not worth stopping at; but literature consists of such trifles. Literature consists, in fact, not of general ideas but of particular revelations, not of schools of thought but of individuals of genius. Literature is not about something: it is the something itself, the quiddity. Without the masterpiece, literature does not exist.

111lindapanzo
Jan 17, 2014, 12:44 pm

I know that people have mentioned the BBC film adaptation. Looking back, someone even mentioned that the Gillian Anderson version is free for Amazon Prime members. Why did this not sink in? I can watch each episode and follow along with my reading. I don't have to go to the library to pick up a copy.

I'm about a third of the way through reading BH. I probably won't finish this month but I think February is looking more likely.

I also discovered that, besides the Gillian Anderson version, there's also a Diana Rigg version. Has anyone seen both? Which is better?

I don't think the Diana Rigg is free so, no doubt, I will watch the Gillian Anderson one, at this point, probably just the first episode or two.

Unfortunately, there are some spoilers in the descriptions of the 8 episodes but still... by the time I get to that point, I probably will have forgotten what I saw from the brief spoilers.

112cbl_tn
Jan 17, 2014, 12:56 pm

Both the Gillian Anderson version and the Diana Rigg version are available for streaming from Netflix. I'll probably watch the Gillian Anderson version after I finish the book, unless someone convinces me that the Diana Rigg version is better. (I'll eventually watch it, too, but probably not right away.)

113Helenliz
Jan 17, 2014, 1:44 pm

I'm at ~ 2/3 through now and the pace is beginning to pick up.
I'm still not sure I have a great deal of time for Esther (too perfect) Ada (too wet) or Richard (a wastrel in the making), but the book is full of wonderfully drawn minor characters. And I think it is them that is the thing I'm finding most attractive about the story.

114japaul22
Jan 17, 2014, 2:38 pm

I agree, Helenliz, Esther in particular is so over-the-top sweet that I keep thinking of her as an unreliable narrator who's secretly poisoning everyone or something!

115andreablythe
Jan 18, 2014, 12:00 am

Just got to Chapter 26 and things are so much smoother. I'm clicking with the writing better, I think.

Like you guys, it's the minor characters that I'm starting to love. The main characters are all so bland. I have no sense of Ada at all. She's barely talked about and seems to have no personality.

116Helenliz
Jan 18, 2014, 2:00 pm

I'm done. I really think the last 350 or so pages go a lot lot faster than the previous 650. I'm pleased I've finished it, but I'm not sure I'll ever wade through it again.

117mamzel
Jan 18, 2014, 2:39 pm

My feelings exactly!

118ALWINN
Jan 18, 2014, 4:28 pm

Is it just me or does Mr Skimpole just grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr it just rubs me the wrong way anytime he wants to put his too cents in he always finished "But Im just a child I dont understand anything of these matters" and I always find myself saying THEN SHUT UP ALREADY AND GO PUT YOU BIG BOY PANTS ON AND GO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.....

WHEWWWWWWWWWWWWW I FEEL BETTER NOW.

119Helenliz
Jan 18, 2014, 4:47 pm

118> No, I think that just about sums it up. >:-)
I did wonder if anyone could actually be quite that naive, or if he was really slightly evil & manipulative while pretending to be simple. Can't decide.

120rabbitprincess
Jan 18, 2014, 5:26 pm

>119 Helenliz:: I wondered about that too! I also wondered what would have happened that first day at Bleak House if Esther and Richard had allowed him to be hauled off to debtors' prison instead of paying off his debt. Maybe that would have put some sense into him.

Just finished the first chapter with Mr Bucket. Things are picking up! Apparently it helps me to spend a couple of uninterrupted hours with this book instead of a chapter here and there ;)

121andreablythe
Jan 18, 2014, 9:14 pm

>118 ALWINN:-119
You've both nailed it on the head! I don't get why everyone is so forgiving and accepting of him.

122Zozette
Jan 18, 2014, 10:38 pm

If he was a real person he wouldn't have last very long as my friend, though I seriously doubt if a friendship would form between me and him in the first place. I found him irritating just reading about him, in real life I think I would have found him even more irritating.

123ALWINN
Jan 20, 2014, 2:16 pm

I have to say anytime that Skimpole is talking or whatever the wind coming out of the east. What a DEADBEAT!!!!!! EAST WIND I TELL YA...

124lindapanzo
Jan 20, 2014, 2:29 pm

Just at the halfway point...

Mrs Jellyby...ugh!!

What are housekeeping keys. Esther is always jingling them or they're otherwise coming up.

125Yells
Jan 20, 2014, 2:34 pm

Wouldn't they be the keys to various places in the house like the pantry, attic etc? She is the head of house so to speak so she is responsible for locking up the silver.

126ALWINN
Jan 20, 2014, 3:53 pm

But why must she always carry them around in a basket????

127cbl_tn
Jan 20, 2014, 4:28 pm

I think the basket is probably the equivalent of a purse.

128lindapanzo
Jan 20, 2014, 4:31 pm

Sometime soon, I need to watch the first few episodes in the Gillian Anderson film adaptation to get a better feel for these things.

At just over halfway through, things are starting to better fall into place for me on BH now but "housekeeping keys" are one of those nagging little points that I just can't picture. Thanks for your thoughts explaining these things.

129cbl_tn
Jan 20, 2014, 5:15 pm

I've read through Ch. 46 and things are beginning to get exciting. However, after reading several of Trollope's Chronicles of Barsetshire novels last year, Dickens has lost some of his luster for me. I'm finding that I like Trollope better, or at least better than this particular Dickens novel. I'm not finding as much to "chew on" in Bleak House as I do in Trollope's work.

130lindapanzo
Jan 20, 2014, 5:20 pm

I'm on chapter 31. Without the group encouragement, I probably would've put this one aside long ago.

I rarely read novels this long and/or this drawn out. I don't have the patience for it, normally.

131rabbitprincess
Jan 20, 2014, 5:41 pm

And how about that Mrs Pardiggle? Why does she even bother giving her kids an allowance if she's just going to take it all away again for her charitable work? At least let the kids (a) have some of their own money and (b) choose themselves the charities they want to support.

132ALWINN
Jan 21, 2014, 10:06 am

I have to admit that I did shed a tear when poor Jo died and his only request was to be laid to rest with Nemo. And yes my dear husband made fun of me saying REALLY ITS JUST A BOOK ITS NOT REAL!!! So right now it is for me so shut up.

133lsh63
Jan 21, 2014, 11:37 am

#132 Ann, I got a little misty when I read the parts of the book with Jo in it. So sad!

134japaul22
Edited: Jan 23, 2014, 8:25 pm

spoiler alert (though there are no names involved in this quote, so I'm not sure it would really "spoil" anything!

The last line of that chapter really got me. To me, Dickens has his kind of heavy-handed, wordy tone in the last paragraph so that I was kind of skimming

Dead, your Majesty. Dead, my lords and gentlemen. Dead, right reverends and wrong reverends of every order. Dead, men and women, born with heavenly compassion in your hearts.

But then, this final sentence is so poignant and points to the larger picture so succinctly, I had to read it several times and pause to contemplate.

And dying thus around us every day.

That sentence is representative of the best of Dickens to me.

135andreablythe
Jan 21, 2014, 12:18 pm

>132 ALWINN:
It's not a big deal (at least not for me), but a spoiler alert in bold might be good for those of us still a bit behind in the reading.

136lindapanzo
Jan 25, 2014, 6:42 pm

Hurray!! I've finally finished it.

The last third or so really picked up. In the end, I loved it.

137andreablythe
Jan 26, 2014, 11:50 am

Done! I forced myself to power through the last forty pages last night despite my drooping eyelids and almost falling asleep.

Overall it was a good experience. Dickens characters are so well done and I was surprised several times toward the end, but it is so wordy, especially with dialog and repetitive character behavior.

138rabbitprincess
Jan 26, 2014, 12:16 pm

This book has made its way into my dreams -- I dreamt I was running a real-life study group as a way to help me understand the book better. I'm on Chapter 25 and hope to get back to it today. Probably not going to finish it in January.

139March-Hare
Jan 26, 2014, 12:32 pm

Did the dream provide enlightenment?

140rabbitprincess
Jan 26, 2014, 1:21 pm

I remember discussing symbols in the early chapters but naturally can't remember what they were! Something about animals, perhaps. And in the dream I hadn't yet met with the study group; I was running through my presentation notes and trying to imagine questions or comments that my fellow study group members would have. I think the dream was more a way of saying "Hey, you should get back to the book, you haven't read it in a few days" than anything else.

141March-Hare
Jan 26, 2014, 2:09 pm

Interesting...I don't see Dickens as a symbolic writer, but a few things I've read about the book point to the symbolism.

It also raises the question of what makes something symbolic? The dream is fascinating because like a symbol it requires interpretation. Maybe there is a hint here.

142andreablythe
Jan 26, 2014, 2:58 pm

An interpretation of a dream that's an interpretation on a book! Love it!

143mamzel
Edited: Jan 26, 2014, 5:59 pm

What would Freud say to that?
Congrats Linda and Andrea!

144LittleTaiko
Jan 26, 2014, 6:30 pm

Yea!! I finished!! So very happy that I read this book - definitely one of his better novels. Now back to my regularly scheduled reading...

145mamzel
Jan 26, 2014, 6:42 pm

Now back to my regularly scheduled reading...
My feelings exactly. But I'm glad I did it!

146BookLizard
Jan 27, 2014, 10:16 pm

3/4 of the way through. It really picked up - I'm probably 2-3 episodes behind in the miniseries.

147Yells
Jan 28, 2014, 11:49 am

Finally finished! Loved the beginning and the ending but the middle needed a bit of a chop job.

I do agree with the posters above who noted that the characters were all rather important and therefore couldn't be easily removed. However, I was annoyed at the fact that they each seemed to have ONE important role only. If he had a few do double duty, he could have pared down the list a bit.

Won't comment more until everyone has finished.

148BookLizard
Jan 28, 2014, 7:33 pm

147> You say the characters each had only ONE important role, but I thought there were so many coincidences and everyone seemed to know everyone else or be related to someone else. You could easily play Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon with them.

149ALWINN
Jan 29, 2014, 11:21 am

Oaky is most everybody done with the book that we can actually talk about it in detail with Spoilers because I have finished the book and watched the BBC movie and there are several points Im dying to comment on.

150japaul22
Jan 29, 2014, 11:37 am

I was wondering when we could start discussing too! It's hard with a book this long, because there will probably always be people finishing up! Maybe we could start a different thread for people who are finished and would like to discuss?

151mamzel
Jan 29, 2014, 1:32 pm

I think we should just continue posting here and anyone who hasn't finished can avoid this thread until they are finished.

152ALWINN
Jan 29, 2014, 2:31 pm

Yeah because I have already had my hand slapped for slipping up.

153mamzel
Jan 29, 2014, 3:18 pm

That's too bad. After all it's not like this book has been around for 150+ years and adapted into movie form, serial form, etc. And, really, were there any surprises at the end? (Oops, was that a spoiler?)

I myself have a wonderfully selective memory. If I hear or read something about a book or movie, chances are very good I'll forget it so that I will still be surprised.

154LittleTaiko
Jan 29, 2014, 5:36 pm

Did anyone else notice that sometimes when the narration wasn't with Esther that it read a bit like a screenplay? What I mean, is there were lots of what I would call "stage directions" for the characters explaining how they should look or act as opposed to what the characters were actually doing.

155rabbitprincess
Jan 29, 2014, 5:54 pm

I vote for people going ahead and discussing whatever they like -- maybe a "spoiler" will pique my interest and get me to read further! I'm stalled somewhere in the Chapter 20-somethings. ;)

156cbl_tn
Jan 29, 2014, 6:20 pm

I finished last night. I haven't made many comments as I worked my way through the book. I read several of Trollope's novels last year with group reads, and compared to Trollope, I didn't find a lot in Bleak House that I was eager to discuss.

As a whole, the secondary characters were much more interesting than the primary characters. They seem to be more like caricatures, so you had old Mr. Smallwood being shaken up, Mrs. Jellyby writing letters to aid the unfortunate in faraway places while neglecting her houseful of children, Mr. Bagnet having his wife pronounce his opinions, etc. My favorite characters were Jo and Mrs. Bagnet.

157JDHomrighausen
Jan 29, 2014, 10:16 pm

I just discovered this and want in. Did anybody listen to the audiobook? I am downloading the one narrated by Peter Batchelor.

158Zozette
Jan 29, 2014, 11:31 pm

I switched between reading the e-book and listening to it as an audiobook depending on what I was doing at the time. The audio version I listen to was narrated by Sean Barrett and Theresa Gallagher. I enjoyed Theresa's narration more than Sean but I think that is because she read Esther's narration which I also preferred when reading it in the e-book format.

159BookLizard
Jan 30, 2014, 12:02 am

There is the new spoiler feature so we can talk about specifics without ruining it for everybody.

Like Mr. Jaryndyce . . . he wants to marry Esther, and has thought about it since she was younger (ew), but why isn't he already married? He's the nicest guy ever, giving her up in the end for her own happiness, but I feel sorry for him and wonder why he never married. For a minute there, I thought he was going to hook up with Mrs. Woodcourt.

160Helenliz
Jan 30, 2014, 1:53 am

159> I agree, it did feel a bit eww. And it felt, to me, like a marriage of convenience.

I have to say I didn't quite understand why Bucket was so keen on pursuing Jo, hounding him out of town, turning him out of the house etc. That didn't seem to be a logical course of action.

156> agreed. In terms of the story, I thought the main characters were rather bland. Ada was rather blank, Richard a wet blanket and a sponger in the making (I thought both Mr Turveydrop and Skimpole were examples of how he might turn out), while Esther was just a bit too good to be really interesting. Mr Jarndyce was one I would have wanted to know more about. The supporting cast, though, was most varied and interesting. But it did seem quite a co-incidence that the same people kept running into each other over and over again.

161BookLizard
Jan 30, 2014, 8:52 am

160> Yeah, I think the marriage of convenience partly mitigated some of the ew factor.

I think Tulkinghorn was the one who didn't want Jo talking to anyone, so Bucket was acting on his orders most of the time. Also, I think Dickens was trying to make him seem like one of the "bad guys" even though he was only doing his job. He turned out to be a decent fellow in the end.

It's Dickens, so his characters are, well, characters and caricatures to some degree. But they kind of have to be. Look at how much trouble we had keeping all the characters straight (and by we I mean many of us in the group). Imagine if we were reading it like his original readers did - one installment a month for almost 2 years. How hard would it be to remember the names of everyone and who they were if they weren't so over the top or bland placeholders? And the coincidences, while hard to believe, are also part of the charm of Dickens. Imagine how many more characters we would have to keep straight or how much longer the book would be without the coincidences!

I also would like to know more about John Jarndyce. He seems too good to be true. Why hasn't he married? I can see him not wanting to have children because he wouldn't want to pass the legacy of Jarndyce v. Jarndyce on to them. Maybe that's why he wanted a marriage of convenience?

162japaul22
Jan 30, 2014, 10:14 am

Not to add to the length of the already long book, but I would have liked to know more about the origins of the dispute over the multiple wills in Jarndyce v. Jarndyce. I know the point was just to highlight the inefficiency of the courts, but I thought it could have added to the story.

I was also perplexed by the ending. After all those pages, it ended so suddenly that I actually looked up the ending to make sure my kindle version wasn't missing some text! Did anyone else feel that way?

163mamzel
Jan 30, 2014, 10:50 am

Maybe Mr. Dickens' editors told him he had completed his contract and had to end the story ASAP.

164Zozette
Jan 30, 2014, 1:08 pm

I kept wondering why no-one could waver being a Jarndyce heir.

165BookLizard
Jan 31, 2014, 8:21 am

164> Good question. I wonder if it had something to do with inheritance laws and estates and titles or if it was just convenient for Dickens.

162> It did end abruptly and with a twist in the case. Maybe Dickens had to tie up all of the loose ends in one installment, like mamzel suggested.