Is there life after death then?

TalkCheating The Ferryman

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Is there life after death then?

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1reading_fox
Nov 22, 2007, 4:18 am

As that seems to be the point of this group - to discuss metaphysical questions?

To me that's a simple question with a simple answer - NO.

You live, do the best you can, and then die. Worms and bacteria take over from there. I suspect somehow I'm missing the point? Anyone care elucidate further.

2AnthonyPeake
Nov 22, 2007, 7:16 am

Firstly, thanks for your question - a question that is always asked of me when I do my lectures. The problem is that the book title is totally misleading. I deal with what happens to human consciousness at the point of death. I have no opinion as to what happens afterwards. I deal with physics and that question is metaphysics. The title was hoisted upon me by my publisher. The book should have been called 'Cheating The Ferryman' - a far more accurate (and I believe evocative) title.
In the book I attempt to present a rational, and scientifically sound, possibility that may happen to human consciousness at the point of death. As a materialist I consider that as far as modern science is concerned consciousness is an epiphenomenon of the brain - without a brain consciousness cannot exist. In other words when the body dies and rots so does consciousness.
I suggest that at the point of death a cocktail of neurotransmitters brings about a psychic state identical to that experienced by temporal lobe epileptics during the aura phase of a petit mal attack. Among many sensations one is the falling out of time. In other words it is time that is the new variable with regard to Near-Death Experience.

Clearly it is impossible for me to describe the full argument as presented in a 380 page book but I put everything into the mix from quantum physics to neurology and even, probably surprising but quite relevant, theology.

3reading_fox
Nov 22, 2007, 10:33 am

Well I was rather hoping that theology didn't enter into it too much!

I'm surprised you've managed to isolate the quantum effects, because my somewhat limited understanding of physics at metabolic temperature these are usually vastly dwarfed by thermochemical processes, particularly in the somewhat dynamic molecular environment of the brain - except in exceptional controlled experimental conditions molecules and proteins are too large to signifcantly experiance quantum mechanical behavior?

4AnthonyPeake
Nov 22, 2007, 1:49 pm

The quantum 'effects' I apply relate two three areas of quantum theory: Everett's Many-Worlds Interpretation, Bohm's Implicate Order and Bohr's Copenhagen Interpretation (possibly even a fourth - the Cosmological Anthropic Principle). I am therefore interested in the implications of the 'observer generated' universe as suggested by Copenhagen (that the act of observation brings about the collapse of the wave function). Indeed I cite the suggestion of Max Tegmark of MIT that by applying the implications of Copenhagen and Everett's Many-Worlds Interpretation one can show that we are all existing in our own universe in which we may be immortal. In his book 'The Universe Next Door' New Scientist staff writer Marcus Chown explains how this can be. For a web-based explanation check out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_immortality .

I take on board your point about the temperature issue with regard to the brain. Although I do not mention this in the book I am aware that this has been the major criticism of the theory proposed by Stuart Hameroff and Roger Penrose have sugggested that the interface between quantum indeterminacy and the the world of classical physics interfaces within the microtubles of the brain (see http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/publications.html)

5andyray
Nov 22, 2007, 11:06 pm

It has been taken as prima facie that without a brain there cannot be consciousness.

How, then , do you explain our current administration, beginning with our president and vice president?

6AnthonyPeake
Nov 23, 2007, 2:56 am

Ahh, but you are assuming they are conscious in the first place. I have heard rumours .....

7allenrklein First Message
Nov 24, 2007, 7:01 pm

Is there life after death? What happens to the energy that supplies the brain with "thought"? Physics - energy cannot be destroyed but may only revert to its original state. An argument for "energy" after death, therefore consciousness, and also the purification of that energy "?hell?"?

8AnthonyPeake
Nov 25, 2007, 5:39 am

A very interesting point. I recall that in the 1950's Wilhelm Reich suggested something called orgone energy which I always thought made a good deal of sense.
I am genuinely interested in your comment with regard to this idea.

Where will I find scientific evidence for this?

9Revenant
Edited: Dec 10, 2007, 2:57 pm

I wish there would be some serious scientific interest in investigating what is known as paranormal phenomena, not investigating them as paranormal phenomena, but purely as phenomena. There appears to be a some kind of energy that is causing results that are being described as ghosts but, no doubt, if there were such an energy, it would be a lot more complicated than most interpretations have been regarding that type of phenomena.

Reich's work regarding orgone energy, although questionable, would merit further investigation, but his other views were not favored by the state therefore no one, who has any credibility, would want to associate themselves with his ideas at the expense of their established reputations. Look at how Nikola Tesla and his ideas were supressed. But that's getting into other territory. Back to Reich. Apparently Reich did conduct a lot of thoroughly documented research that was destroyed. Whether that's true or not I couldn't really say. My opinion is that what Reich was doing was more a type of spirituality using the language and imagery of science as a way to express it. Bearing in mind that that is an opinion and does not mean that his ideas don't merit further investigation. Unfortunately, it's opinions that seem to rule what is scientifically investigated and what is not and not an openess to inquiry.

10AnthonyPeake
Nov 27, 2007, 5:38 am

I agree with you 100% on this. I have now done over 60 talks and lectures across the UK and Europe in the last year or so. I meet many people from all walks of life and, because of my subject matter, they are very at ease in telling me their experiences. I am sure that what they describe is real - objectively real. I suspect that there is a level of reality that we are totally unaware of - possibly linked to Dark Matter. I am frustrated that scientists ignore certain penemonon even thought they are regularly reported. My hope is that books like mine - and organisations such as The Scientific & Medical Network and the Institute of Noetic Sciences - can break down this barrier and open up rational debate on this important area of human experience.

11elusivearea First Message
Dec 29, 2007, 10:20 pm

Is there life after death? This is my all time top question in life. This is how I look at it. Within the universe is the electromagnetic spectrum. This spectrum is made of sub-atomic particles; these particles make up all matter, stars, planets and us. All sub-atomic particles have a wave nature, in other words, energy. I do not think there is a disagreement between people that we are energy. In fact, all of us as well as all matter in the universe are connected atomically. Energy never dies, so when the body dies our energy lives on. The question is. Is there consciousness in our remaining energy? I compare quietus to star cosmology. Stars live a very long life, but just like us stars die following exhaustion of their fuel. However, after a star dies its remaining gasses go on to form new stars.

12AnthonyPeake
Edited: Dec 30, 2007, 5:48 am

The reason I wrote the book was in order to find it for myself what evidence that 'I' (whatever that loaded letter a concept actually means) will continue in some form after the observed death of my body. Indeed it is still uttely amazing to me that my musings became something that somebody wanted to publish - and even more surprising that it became a book people wanted to buy. In many ways it was a personal voyage of discovery that I simply wrote down for my own future reference. The book hit number 01 'best-seller' on Amazon UK (categories Reincarnation and Afterlife) on Christmas Day and today charted at number 26 in the same category in Amazon USA. From this I can only assume that my personal search is shared with many, many others and my ideas seem to have also focused what many others have been thinking.

This is why I set up this Group and my Blogsite. I want debate on this crucially important subject - a subject that at some time or other will be experienced by every single human being.

I am totally in agreement with the idea that 'reality' is simply energy and as we know energy never disappears, it just changes form. This has to be the answer however the challenge, for me at least, is formulating the correct question.

13josc
Jun 2, 2008, 12:58 am

Hi,
I found this book "Is There Life After Death?" quite by chance and I think it is one of the most interesting books I have read ever. The example of the ND experience at the end of the book - the car accident - was fascinating. My Daemon tried to keep me from being hit by a car when I was 10 however I would argue and not listen and today I have a sore hip. I think you present a good argument for the eternal return. This would be ok with me. I like it here. Next time I hope I know to listen when my Daemon speaks. JOSC