From Hell

Latest survey from FS - approval or not for a future LE of Alan Moore's graphic novel. Another new departure in the search for more punters. Good luck.

Fantastic news! It's about time that FS shows some appreciation for pictoliterature.

Very interesting. It's a worthy candidate, if not necessarily my first pick. It will be interesting to see if / how they do this, and what follows from it.

LOA have thus far published a two-volume set of Lynd Ward's proto-graphic novels, all in black and white. I think it fits well within their catalogue, and love the single volume I own. Would FS eventually venture into colour or stick to B&W? I believe From Hell is all black & white interior panels.

Nah. Think I'll wait for Dudley D Watkins' The Broons Annual, 1955. Might as well start with the classics.

Not that I won't love a good graphic novel edition but... it is a Huge work so this will be one heavy LE. And as it is already GN, there won't be a need for illustrations. So I am not sure what exactly the idea is. I'd much rather see one of the Comics publishers add it to their lines of properly published books but oh well...

>3 elenchus:
It is black and white, yes.

>5 AnnieMod:
Maybe it will be bound in human flesh?

Received survey, replied in the affirmative.

Sorry, a move in the wrong direction as far as I'm concerned, even if it has a slipcase.

Edited for afterthought.

I think of graphic novels as having little appeal beyond teenage. My own introduction to 'literature' was through Classics Illustrated which I devoured voraciously but then 'grew' out of them - they had served their purpose and I moved on. I still look back on them with some nostalgia but there is no going back. It was not the CI that I left behind, it was all comics (now redefined by the term 'graphic') - they no longer satisfied. I'd be interested to know how many of you share this experience which I had assumed was a common one.

The apparent success of graphic novels leads me to suppose that it is therefore down to the younger age groups. Does anyone know the readership profile of graphic novels and whether or not it would blow my 'prejudice' out of the water?

>9 scratchpad: I have grown out of most, but not all, of the novels and graphical novels I read as a teenager. Instead I focus most of my reading on novels and graphical novels aimed at adults. Concluding that because comics aimed at teenagers have little appeal to adults all graphic novels are aimed at teenagers is a mistake. However, I do suspect that somewhat younger people may be more used to the form.

I don't know anything about the actual graphical novel in question but a LE seems to overdo it. But I'm not in the LE market anyway.

Got the email today. I personally prefer FS's classics more.

I also said I'd prefer more classical fare, but I'm glad they're experimenting and pushing boundaries a little, as long as they don't neglect the works I'm interested in.

>9 scratchpad: I'd be interested to know how many of you share this experience which I had assumed was a common one.

Yes, that was me. I loved Classics Illustrated, then I grew up and left them behind. They had served their purpose.

They're leaving a lot of lucrative veins untapped. How about the Jane Austen Colouring Book For Adults (JACBA)? Crayons extra. Promoted by a contest on Twitter (ages 6 to 105), viewers pick the winner.

For something different than Classics Illustrated, may I recommend National Book Award Finalist Radioactive: Marie & Pierre Curie: A Tale of Love and Fallout which relies on the combination of imagery and text to tell a story in a way which would have been impossible by text alone? Graphical Novels is a diverse genre and only some of it is primarily aimed at entertaining teenagers. I'm not sure it is a good genre for FS, they seem to have no previous experience with it and most of the high class works are already reasonably well printed and obviously already illustrated so I'm not sure if the market for even finer versions is sufficient to motivate it. However, dismissing graphical novels based on comics you read as a teenager is a bit like dismissing literature because you grew out of Nancy Drew...

As an old fart I have no problem with the concept of graphic novels as a perfectly respectable art form - indeed I'm especially fond of the works of Neil Gaiman myself although other authors such as Moore, Morrison, Milligan, Ennis etc are available (spot the old Vertigo reader).

>15 alvaret: I'm not sure it is a good genre for FS,

I'm sure you're right.

It's an old story. Comics (and even the latest incarnation, graphic novels) are for children, adolescents and arrested childhood adults. It's also so wrong. Open your minds, please! A whole new world beckons. Pictoliterature can deal (and does) with any complex matter as well (or even better) than the written word alone. I hope that FS goes ahead and the venture is a success.

Edited to add an afterthought

> 19 draslova I would not consider myself a fan of graphic novels but Antonio ( I think it was you Antonio) pointed this to me some years back and it's really well written and illustrated. Logicomix. If FS were to produce this style I would certainly consider purchasing.

I'm definitely sure it isn't a genre, it's a medium.

Deleted

>20 N11284: it's really well written and illustrated. Logicomix.

Thanks for this link. Just back from Amazon having bought it and another "graphic novel" that caught my fancy, "The Thrilling Adventures of Lovelace and Babbage." Both look extraordinarily interesting and I'me quite certain I'm going to like them a lot. Review of Logicomix, from Amazon:

`A compelling read ... There are some terrific characters here, and seeing them in a comic shows off their quirky personalities' --BBC Focus Magazine

I'm also acquainted with the work of "From Hell"s author Alan Moore and of his pre-eminence in the field. I particularly enjoyed the movie production of V for Vendetta.

The question for me is, regardless of how "good" or popular this style and content, is it suitable material for a book published by the Folio Society? Answering that question to myself and being confronted with the recurring (in recent years) image of Charles Ede spinning in his grave, I must answer "no". And that was my response to the survey.

As an aside, the survey is evidently rigged to produce a "yes" response. If I may quote from their email:

We are currently looking to publish a Folio Society edition of From Hell, Alan Moore’s graphic-novel masterpiece about Jack the Ripper – regularly voted one of the greatest graphic novels of all time. Whilst this is still at such an early stage that we cannot give you too many details, you can rest assured that this will be a marvellous, definitive version of the book. Our edition would be strictly limited in number.

If this is something you would be interested in please could you let us know using the survey link below.

I had to think about it for some time to decide if I was meant to take part as I was a definite "no" and not at all something I would be interested in. Just as well I decided to investigate. I wonder how many were put off by that ingenuous concoction, though?

I am thinking of this foray (if it proceeds) as one meant to fund the "typical" works of FS. The success of Mort and Dune make a case for pursuing similar financial and marketing success, and bankrolling other works which do not bring in as much revenue.

I don't know if it will be a successful strategy, of course. (Even more telling: I can't claim to know this is an accurate accounting of FS thinking.) I will probably not purchase any of these titles, as much as I like them on their own: regular editions will serve well enough for me. But if they help bring me The Icelandic Sagas and other editions I do purchase, more power to FS.

>19 drasvola: Excellent - 'pictoliterature' will now be dropped into conversation whenever feasible. I presume that the recently published 'Asterix and the Picts' is a good example?

I have been exploring some graphic novels recently to see what the fuss is about and have enjoyed several very much (including The Thrilling Adventures of Lovelace and Babbage mentioned by folio_books).

I am happy to explore these as paperbacks (or occasionally as hardbacks) from Amazon, and if produced as a Folio Soc standard volume I might well be tempted, but do I think that pictoliterature is the stuff of Folio Limited Editions? My personal opinion in answer to the questionnaire was "no".

>23 folio_books:

I'd not think of it as a "rigged" survey, just one that aims to get an indication of the main factor the FS needs and wishes to measure, which is how many of us would have an interest in buying the book. Send the email to all customers, and probably most of those enthused by the project would take the trouble to respond, while non-responders and no-sayers alike are infertile ground.

For myself I know next to nothing of the genre or medium, unless a childhood enthusiasm for the work of Steve Ditko et al. counts at all. Much of my attachment to the FS has been on account of its ability over the years to incite me to give attention to authors and forms of literature that had otherwise passed me by. In this case, I was stimulated by the email to seek out sample pages of From Hell online, but couldn't raise more than a shrug at either text or draughtsmanship, though the territory had some immediate interest for me as a long-term reader of Iain Sinclair and great admirer of his first novel White Chappell, Scarlet Tracings. A "no" from me, then.

19: Well said! It's not really surprising that some people are closed-minded. Too bad, but eh, if you don't like it no one is forcing you to purchase it. If anyone is interested, we have a "Graphic Novels and other Great Comic Books" thread over at the EP group
https://www.librarything.com/topic/221318

>20 N11284: >25 edgeworn: >28 astropi: Many thanks for your kind comments.

Six works, in no particular order, that show the medium's wide range of themes and treatment:

Gemma Bovery by Posy Simmonds
Louis Riel by Chester Brown
Palestine by Joe Sacco
Watchmen by Alan Moore
Sandman by Neil Gaiman
Maus by Art Spiegelman

And two more, at opposite sides of the spectrum:

Cerebus by Dave Sim
Bone by Jeff Smith

I love graphic novels and they're a constant in my reading life. There is some really innovative literature out there - apart from the purely speculative side, things like March and Marzi spring to mind as particular favourites of mine. Bearing that in mind, I still don't think this is really where I'd like to see FS go. It's not because I think that graphic novels aren't worthy of the binding but for me, the real draw to FS is the whole package of binding, font and commissioned illustrations. I feel like graphic novels are a pre-made thing. Yes, they can produce a fancy binding for them but there's no scope for the artistry of combining text and illustrations. This kind of seems like a turn towards disengaging with the full process and producing a book in a pretty package.

Maybe the FS will do something totally unexpected in that their editions usually add illustrations to a text based item so for this they add pages of text to the graphics :)

>30 drasvola:

I used to enjoy Cerebus, despite the occasional pushing of Dave Sim's odder views, until the guy finally lost it.

Bone was more consistent although I preferred the more humorous aspects

>32 dfmorgan: :-)

>32 dfmorgan: add pages of text to the graphics :)

A real opportunity: source materials, influences, critical essays, essays by the authors (writer, illustrator, letterer).

I prefer LEs for which FS commissions the illustrations--obviously no chance of that with graphic novels. I have a hard time justifying the cost when I can usually get a cheaper facsimile elsewhere.

Since I received the e-mail from FS, I have vacillated between hell no and hell yes as my answer. I turned to this thread, which has not helped at all. If I abstain from answering, which seems likely, it does not indicate a lack of interest.

I read Graphic novels (lots of them) - anyone that says that they won't even look at them because they are http://www.librarything.com/talkfor children only is in the same list for me as the people that say that the Russian classics are outdated and unreadable or that science fiction or crime authors cannot produce a great novel or that short stories cannot tell great stories. There is a difference between "I tried and it really does not work for me" and "it is a juvenile, I am too busy being an adult".

Plus - if your memories of the genres are pre-Maus (early 90s in book form), then you had missed where the genre had gone in the last quarter of a century. In the same way in which Science fiction grew up and is not just "adventures in space" and the crime genre grew up to put characters front and center (as opposed to the almost formulaic detectives from the days past), the graphic medium moved with them to provide a different way to tell a story. Batman is still Batman (albeit much darker and a bit more coherent) but Graphic novels and comics are not just the domain of the superheroes and horror anymore. And anyone that tries to give "From Hell" to a child has some really bad ideas.

I still cannot see what FS will add to the field of GNs though...

From Hell is an incredibly well researched and put together book, but Im unsure whether it should have a folio society edition.
I love reading graphic novels, and have a good collection of alan moore, including From Hell, but I cant see what a folio society edition would offer extra, as it is obviously already illustrated.
it is also incredibly graphic in content, which whilst fine to be in the format i currently have it, would seem strange alongside the rest of my folio collection.

therefore not a definite no for me, as From Hell is definitely a high quality work of fiction, from a great living english author, but just seems a strange choice for their first foray into this genre.

And for Joyce fans there is "Ulysses Seen" still a work in progress and available on the iPad

>39 stumc: From Hell is an incredibly well researched and put together book

Can I just ask, not having read the work myself, if it bears any resemblance at all to the film of the same name, which I gather was based on the novel, in the same way as Watchmen and V for Vendetta?"

no the film is nothing like the book. the film tells the same story but in a standard hollywood fashion.

the book is an epic study of the evidence surrounding the ripper murders, albeit with a lot of (entertaining) conspiracy theories mixed in.

the artwork is grimy and very evocative of photos ive seen of the victorian slums.

it is heavy going though as it is incredibly grim (as befits the subject matter), so is less accessible than v for vendetta, watchmen or early league of extraordinary gentlemen.

>42 stumc: the film tells the same story but in a standard hollywood fashion.

Thanks for your comments. I assume, then, that the book reaches the same conclusions as the film regarding the Ripper's identity?

yes, although there are a lot of sourced facts within the book, it does go down the well trod masonic conspiracy route.

my problem with it is as i get older, and other similar works whether graphic novels or not, is the level of violence, especially sexual, either shown or described.

as i have limited time to read lately i enjoy slightly more light hearted fare!

FS has published previously illustrated books, if I'm not mistaken, of birds, flowers and even apples! An edition, quality bound on top quality paper, perhaps enlarged graphics , with introduction, essay, notes, commentary, bibliography, etc (perhaps signed) would be very attractive for collectors to purchase. As already mentioned by >35 elenchus:

Edited to reference previous post

>41 folio_books: Watchmen

Another Hollywood adaptation that completely missed the mark. Poor Alan.

I were a ripperologist. I'd be interested in "the ultimatum edition" - signed for collectible value is always a bonus

I would probably spring for a From Hell LE, and as >35 elenchus: notes, there's plenty of opportunity to add interesting material to an LE by contemporary authors/artists.

Say, From Hell in slightly larger format than original, on thick, matte paper with crisp, wonderful illustrations and lots of commentary, essays, interviews and whatnot?

Shut up and take my money! (Oh, and feel free to do a couple of other classics, too - Maus and 100 Bullets, for instance. Oh, and something Eisner. A Contract With God? The Building? Dropsie Avenue?)

Hm. All my wishes are in B/W; I somehow doubt whether a colour graphic novel would benefit from the FS treatment; perhaps a bit of snobbery on my part? Anyway, if colour is fair game and they want to earn money, presumably Watchmen and V for Vendetta should be on the list, too. Oh, and -dare one hope- an Astro City volume? Confession? I'd trade my first-born for that. Probably.)

48: I second Maus!!
The fact that there has never been a beautiful edition by any publisher is just a crying shame. If the FS or EP produced a signed edition, I would sing for happiness!

ps While not Eisner, here is a wonderful limited edition
http://centipedepress.com/art/godsman.html

>49 astropi: Library of America (210 and 211) included Gods' Man in the collection of Lynd Ward's works. A wonderful set.

It is a great set. I ordered it recently and am in the middle of God's Man right now.

>50 drasvola:,51

Whats the paper quality like? Hard to imagine the usual LOA paper being adequate. Very interested in this.

>52 devilsisland:

I think it's good but not great: the blacks are deep and consistent, though a couple pages were lighter than others. I could not determine if that was a printing issue or because the source was different on a small minority of pages (as acknowledged in LOA's production notes). No distractions with images "bleeding through" from other pages, which is something I was concerned about.

ETA Notably, images are printed on only one side of a page, which helps tremendously.

So far after reading God's Man, I haven't noticed any inconsistency with regard to the deep black in the images. The paper is reasonably heavy, heavier than what is used in the Women Crime Writers set. It is not bright white so is easy on the eyes. The images only appear on the right and you can see a ghost of them on the back / left. The endpapers are brown with a repeated star motif that comes from Ward's work. There are no page numbers. One ribbon marker is attached and the orange of the dust jacket is repeated in the cloth cover itself.

Thank you both for your feedback, I think I'll get it then.

>52 devilsisland:

Just to add to the previous answers which I share.
There's an excellent introduction by Art Spiegelman, who appears as editor.
The two volumes come in a very attractive pictorial slipcase.
Volume one is 833 pages long and volume two adds 693 pages.
The paper is Utopia Two Ivory, acid-free, matte-finish.
The book is set in a digital version of Bembo, a font designed in 1929 and based on a roman typace cut in 1495 by Francesco Griffo.

A highly recommend book that collects Ward's work.

An article by Neil Gaiman:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/mar/07/neil-gaiman-will-eisner-comic-book...

Still can't believe there are no Neil Gaiman titles in the Folio collection. Esp. considering he is English. From England.

>58 devilsisland:
Probably copyright issues.

>59 wcarter:
Yeah, but that's not stopping Easton.

I wonder if Good Omens is available, they haven't done that one.

>60 devilsisland:
USA V. UK - very different.

>60 devilsisland:

It's also possible that the terms of the deal with Easton mean that Folio cannot get rights. After all, Easton and Folio are somewhat competitors.

I believe the film version of From Hell can be summed up this way. The book features a subplot of conversations between two real historical figures, Inspector Fred Abberline and the fraudulent spiritualist medium Robert Lees. The film felt the best way to save time and money was to just give the real Inspector Abberline psychic powers.

63: Hummmm, sounds like the film is, shall we say, not great :/

An article from yesterday's Independent which may be of interest to contributors to this thread: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/will-eisner-and-t...

>65 HuxleyTheCat:

Thank you, Fiona.

>65 HuxleyTheCat:

Concise overview, and a reminder for me to read A Contract with God. I've read another of Eisner's (The Building) and found it good but not great, enough to make a mental note to look for more.

>58 devilsisland:

"Still can't believe there are no Neil Gaiman titles in the Folio collection. Esp. considering he is English. From England."

There is now. And one of the best, American Gods, hopefully more to follow.

>68 devilsisland: More to follow? At £75 a pop?

Easton Press released an edition for $100. However, it was personally signed by Gaiman :)
It now sells for around $200, sometimes more. That said, I think it's clear the FS edition is far more beautiful. However, it's still $120 and unsigned, so I will probably pass (really wish they would have had this signed, then the $120 price would easily have been justified).

>69 scratchpad:

"More to follow? At £75 a pop?"

Yeah, well, there is that. I was more excited before I saw the price

With the series coming soon, Folio are trying to end up with another fast selling book like Dune. I cannot blame them about it. :)

Keeping an open mind on this meant I ended up in the ‘interested’ box. Getting my hands on a library copy allowed me a more informed opinion…

Rather than clutter up this space, I've put my review here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/review/RZ0THTEB4TIF3/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASI...

Just my opinion, I know. And does not really answer the question: Would it make a worthwhile LE? Would it sit nicely besides Shakespeare, Chaucer and other beauties on your LS shelf? (Or should that be Pratchett and Lovecraft?) Only you can say.

But not for me.

>73 StevieBby:
Would it sit nicely besides Shakespeare, Chaucer and other beauties on your LS shelf? (Or should that be Pratchett and Lovecraft?) Only you can say.

Each of these authors, love them or hate them, has, I think, interesting things to say and speaks to people with their own very individual style. Personally, I am happy to see them all side-by-side on my shelf.

The same for Alan Moore: I read From Hell in its original sequential form and enjoyed it. I'm curious to know what Folio might do with it.

>30 drasvola:
>33 TheHumbleOne:
I enjoyed both Bone and Cerebus.
I must admit the thought of Jaka's Story (possibly Sim's finest work before he went off on his bizarre 'male light' nonsense or whatever it was - I'll have to dig some back issues out) given the Folio treatment is quite appealing.
Bound in ethically-sourced aardvark skin, of course :)

>74 Cat_of_Ulthar:

Ha, ha, ha. Of course!

>73 StevieBby:

I am happy that Folio is also treating well more contemporary pieces, including newer genres. From Hell is a well regarded piece of art and literature, I don't see why it should not have its own treatment. I like variety in my readings, so on my shelf old and new literature comfortably sit next to each other.

A caveat is that I represent an audience probably in minority here, as I am only 25 years old, thus have different tastes. In my opinion it is a nice move from Folio to try to expand its reach to people who were previously outside of its perspective.

Additionally, there are countless fine editions of the great classics as eventually all fine presses try to publish some of them, but the supply for more contemporary literature is quite lacking, which can be a good business case.