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Deep Ones Advance Nomination Brainstorming Thread

The Weird Tradition

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1paradoxosalpha
Jul 18, 2018, 5:16pm Top

As proposed by RandyStafford and AndreasJ, and in order to check our declining quantity of nominations in the quarterly voting threads, I'm opening this one as a persistent slop-zone where we can remark to ourselves and each other regarding possible candidates for our weekly reads.

2AndreasJ
Edited: Jun 22, 3:15pm Top

On the low-hanging fruit front, a non-exhaustive list of Lovecraft stories we haven't done yet:

"At the Mountains of Madness" (too long?)
"The White Ship"
"Celephaïs"
"From Beyond"
"Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family"
"The Case of Charles Dexter Ward" (too long?)
"The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath" (too long?)
"The Festival"
"The Moon-Bog"

And as we did "Nyarlathotep" way back when, I guess other prose poems are fair game: I think I'll nominate "Memory" next time round, and perhaps also one or two of CAS examples of the form.

ETA: I've struck through the stories we've already done - we ended up going for the long ones! - plus "The Festival" which is on the Summer '19 schedule.

3paradoxosalpha
Jul 18, 2018, 10:49pm Top

As I remarked once in a review, H. Russell Wakefield's "Professor Pownall's Oversight" is a chess ghost story, and not only a good one, but perhaps the best chess ghost story possible.

4paradoxosalpha
Jul 18, 2018, 10:52pm Top

"Lull" (2002) by Kelly Link was a good one I read a couple years back, and it's often been collected.

5Zambaco
Jul 19, 2018, 6:28am Top

I'd love to nominate "Three miles up" by Elizabeth Jane Howard but have hesitated to do so because as far as I know it's available only in very expensive Tartarus Press editions. It's a brilliant - and very scary - story with a real sickening punch at the end. EJH wrote only a few weird stories during her period with Robert Aickman, and then went back to mainstream fiction. A pity, because she had real talent. If anyone knows if it's available online or in a reasonably cheap paperback the please let me know and I'll nominate it.

6elenchus
Jul 19, 2018, 10:31am Top

>5 Zambaco:

That's a compelling description!

7KentonSem
Jul 19, 2018, 11:28am Top


I'll be making use of this thread, but a few notes first.

I'd love for us to take on longer works, like AtMoM, but how best to do it? As the usual weekly story, or possibly spread out over a couple of weeks or even a season? What about a novel? The House on the Borderland comes immediately to mind.

Interlibrary Loan is always a possibility, or a cheap used copy found online, but if the story is obscure and not bound by copyright, it might help if the nominator would offer a scan of their copy.

Also, I wish we simply had more people participating. I value each member of our core croup, but the more participants, the better. There are 440 WT members as of today. I assume that there are a number of Lurkers at the Threshold there, along with too many group collectors, the purpose of which I just don't understand. I suggest looking for new members via our various social media apps, online contacts, friends, neighbors etc., etc. Even if someone only wants to nominate, it would help. Advertise upcoming nominations and weekly story discussions, maybe.

8elenchus
Edited: Jul 19, 2018, 11:43am Top

>7 KentonSem: if the story is obscure and not bound by copyright, it might help if the nominator would offer a scan of their copy.

Expanding on that point, I'm curious also about works still protected by copyright.

My understanding of copyright and fair use is that sharing for purposes of study (such as occurs in formal classes) is legal. Common sense suggests our group is an example of such an activity. However, we've all heard enough caveats and stipulations to doubt the applicability in specific instances. When I taught at university level, for example, I was often required to have copyright clearance of copies, despite the fair use clause. I'm also very mindful of our responsibility to not enable abuse by others, such as could occur were we to simply post a copy of the story online or in our thread. We would not violate copyright, but others easily could take the copy and sell it, etc.

So I'm curious what others here understand to be a valid approach to sharing scans of stories otherwise not easily obtainable.

(KentonSem makes several other points worth following up, but I'll stick to just this one for this post.)

9paradoxosalpha
Jul 19, 2018, 12:14pm Top

>8 elenchus:

I think our first toe in the water for this approach was the recent read of Cabell's The White Robe. We used a g-drive upload selectively shared with participants who contacted me by LT profile message, if memory serves.

Speaking of Cabell, I think there are some good potential nominations in The Silver Stallion, which is really a story cycle more than a novel.

10KentonSem
Jul 19, 2018, 12:18pm Top

>9 paradoxosalpha:

That method worked well.

11paradoxosalpha
Jul 19, 2018, 12:29pm Top

>10 KentonSem:

I'm not sure I'd want to be the perpetual admin of such a system. I'd rather that the contact person be either the story proposer and/or the uploader of the scan.

12paradoxosalpha
Edited: Jul 19, 2018, 12:41pm Top

>7 KentonSem: longer works

I like the fact that we've been doing short stories; it makes us distinctive as opposed to most "book groups," and it plays to what I consider to be the paradigmatic form for our chosen genre. I wouldn't want a longer selection to block off weeks that could still have the short story schedule in place.

I'm fine with the idea that there could be a read of a longer piece that leverages our current group dynamic, but I'd prefer that it be organized outside of the quarterly scheduling of weekly reads. Call it a "Deeper Ones" proposal in its own thread perhaps, specify a start date and a quorum, and see if enough people bite?

13elenchus
Jul 19, 2018, 1:05pm Top

>9 paradoxosalpha:
>10 KentonSem:
>11 paradoxosalpha:

I'd support the approach of a shared private drive. Ideally the admin part is straightforward enough that any member could take the reins for a particular story, with minimal fuss or intimidation from the technology.

We've already demonstrated it can work, not only with the Cabell story, but also with the historical archive of works read: simple and effective. I realise that example is not private (anyone can follow the link from the group page), so we need to be mindful about that aspect.

>12 paradoxosalpha:

Agree that our strength both as a group and as genre fans stems from the focus on shorter fiction. There could be opportunities to set up additional threads alongside the quarterly schedule, and I'd like us to collaborate on ways to harness the asynchronous contributions that work for our weekly reads. Any approach overreliant upon frequent & synchronous "conversation" to keep the thread going is, I suggest, unlikely to work and could detract from what we have established.

14KentonSem
Edited: Jul 19, 2018, 1:50pm Top

>11 paradoxosalpha:
>12 paradoxosalpha:
>13 elenchus:

I second a shared drive. Google Drive? We'd also need to consider how to share it and with whom.

I'm fine with no novels. I think we might be able to do a novella like AtMoM, however.

>5 Zambaco:

I'm intrigued! Perhaps it's a good candidate for a shared drive, if you'd be willing.

15elenchus
Edited: Jul 19, 2018, 2:13pm Top

Proposed Guidelines for Deep Ones Shared Private Drive aka DEEP CUTS

1. Post scan of story on shared drive, file name following format AUTHOR LAST AUTHOR FIRST - Story Title (YYYY Quarter)
2. Ideally, use PDF format for scan
3. Consider deleting scan after end of quarter, to further prevent abuse by outsiders (but this would interfere with later readers contributing to the thread afterward?)
4. Add link to Group Page, leading to Group Wiki listing brief instructions on how to access shared drive (including password). (Need to create the Group Wiki page for this purpose.)
5. Consider changing password quarterly
6. Do not link directly to the shared drive from the story's dedicated thread; instead, use standard phrase directing members to the Group Page.

I am perhaps being overly cautious in terms of avoiding mis-use by non-members (#3, 5, 6) at expense of ready access for members: pushback is welcome.

16Crypto-Willobie
Jul 19, 2018, 3:42pm Top

>9 paradoxosalpha:
"Speaking of Cabell, I think there are some good potential nominations in The Silver Stallion, which is really a story cycle more than a novel."

Agreed. Perhaps the best candidate would be 'In the Sylan's House' but I see possibilities for 'What Saraide Wanted' and 'The Candid Footprint'.

Other possible Cabell's would include 'Concerning Corinna' and 'The Wedding Jest'.

By the way, the magazine versions of all these stories (and more) are available for free reading on the Silver Stallion webstir, here: http://www.silverstallion.karkeeweb.com/contribution_periodicals/main/periodical...

ETA, oops! Corinna was never in a magazine, but its containing book The Certain Hour is available to read free on googlebooks.

-------------------------------------

Scanned stories lodged on googledocs seems to me a good solution for hard-to-find stories. I have for a while wanted to nominate 'The Centaur Plays Croquet' by Lyle Saxon but as far as I know it's never been reprinted from its original appearance in 1927's The American Caravan, a yearbook of American literature.

17AndreasJ
Jul 19, 2018, 4:25pm Top

We’ve done the odd novella-length story, e.g., “The Shadow Out of Time”, with no apparent issue, so I’d like to think AtMoM would be fine. I wouldn’t want to get into actual novels however.

18paradoxosalpha
Jul 19, 2018, 4:30pm Top

Yes, I think the occasional novella is fine. We could support those with early warnings about text length, so that people might start them earlier than they would shorter stories.

19AndreasJ
Jul 20, 2018, 12:53am Top

Reading an old discussion, I came across a lament by KentonSem that there is, far as he knows, no other tale featuring the titular character of "The Tale of Satampra Zeiros", which we discussed here.

Actually there is one, "The Theft of the Thirty-Nine Girdles", online here. It's from late in CAS's weird career, and not as good as "The Tale", but then the latter is one my favorites within CAS's oeuvre.

20KentonSem
Jul 20, 2018, 4:33am Top

>15 elenchus:

That's good. No need to delete, I think, but changing the password regularly sounds reasonable. Maybe only give it out to those whose story nomination needs to be uploaded? I don't think you need a password in Google Docs to download.

>19 AndreasJ:

Nice catch! As told by an aging Zeiros (and CAS, for that matter).

21Zambaco
Jul 20, 2018, 7:15am Top

We must be careful about sharing stories still in copyright, though. In the UK, although it's legally permissible to make a copy of a single article/chapter/story for personal research or study, making multiple or shared copies is not. Universities have to pay a hefty annual fee to the Copyright Licensing Agency in order to be able to share extracts from in-copyright works for course reading. I'm not sure exactly what the situation in the US is, but I do know that some US universities have been sued in the past by publishers for large-scale copying for multiple use. Admittedly the publishers are probably only after large-scale offenders but it could still be risky, especially for more recent works. And the out-of-copyright stuff seems mostly to be available online already via Project Gutenberg or similar setups. , although if that's not the case, there's no reason why we shouldn'r share scans.

22paradoxosalpha
Jul 20, 2018, 10:47am Top

I'd rather err on the side of caution with respect to copyright.

Back in brainstorming mode, it looks like there's lots of good stuff in both Demon and Night-Gaunts by Joyce Carol Oates.

23elenchus
Jul 20, 2018, 11:01am Top

I've been meaning to read more JCO but even flipping through collections in the library, it was difficult for me to know what to nominate without reading it first. So much stuff! I'd welcome a nudge from others here, for sure.

24housefulofpaper
Jul 22, 2018, 6:18pm Top

>5 Zambaco:

"Five Miles Up" was/is included in a UK paperback collection of Elizabeth Jane Howard's short fiction entitled Mr Wrong.The book seems to still be in print (at any rate, it's listed as available from Amazon UK). On the downside (as far as this group's concerned, anyway) I believe only Five Miles Up and the title story have any weird or supernatural content. Those two stories are the only overlap with the Tartarus Press volume.

25housefulofpaper
Jul 22, 2018, 6:33pm Top

The reasons I haven't made many nominations are:
- I would be hesitant about nominating I story I hadn't already read. I'd feel guilty if it turned out to be a stinker!
- I've tended to assume that everyone else has a better knowledge of the field than I do, anyway.
- I've fallen into buying the output of UK based small presses (and Dublin-based Swan River Press and the occasional volume from Zagava Books in Germany (they're an English-language publisher)). I'd nominate something by Mark Valentine or D.P Watt or Ron Weighell, but if no one else can access them in any way, there'd be no point. Also, I've got a massive "TBR pile", and see my first point!
- Re. further sources of nominations (especially recent material) does anyone else still get the Stephen Jones-edited Best New Horror annual collections? They used to be published by mainstream publishers on both sides of the Atlantic. Not any more, but the series is being cintinued by ps Publishing in the UK. Does anyone else get the Ghost and Scholars newsletter - which has started publishing short stories again? What about the Weird Fiction Review?

26elenchus
Jul 22, 2018, 10:12pm Top

>25 housefulofpaper: - I would be hesitant about nominating I story I hadn't already read. I'd feel guilty if it turned out to be a stinker!

Fair enough, and I've made the same decision myself at various times. On the other hand, I've also gone ahead and nominated in the same situation, figuring the voting is one way to sort that out. Despite that, I think a couple stories I nominated & were included ended up as "duds" but ... well, they were stories a bit off the beaten path, so I figured that was good, in any case.

27KentonSem
Edited: Jul 25, 2018, 3:27pm Top

>25 housefulofpaper:
>26 elenchus:

Nominate anything that seems worth it, whether you've read it or not. I think the goal here is to explore the boundaries of weird fiction, especially going "beyond the fields we know", as Dunsany wrote. The only limitation I can see might be access, which we've been discussing. Even duds provide information as we continue to map the weird.

>22 paradoxosalpha:
>23 elenchus:

JCO for certain. She has several really good short story collections, and she's so very important to the weird and gothic genres, not to mention the fact that she has been a pretty staunch defender of HPL's place in 20th century fiction.

I think we should delve into Patrick McGrath. His recent Centipede collection just blew me away. JCO herself wrote the introduction, and if he can raise my eyebrows, that's saying something. A master of surprising, surreal, gothic fiction. But which story? Hmmm...

ETA

Probably "Blood Disease". https://bombmagazine.org/articles/blood-disease/

28elenchus
Edited: Dec 17, 2018, 10:46pm Top

I've read a few Reggie Oliver stories since the group introduced me to him, and most recently finished "Countess Otho", which updates the King in Yellow premise for the late 20th century and tops it with an unexpected ending.

Available in at least two collections, and I'd definitely be willing to pioneer the shared drive idea. I'll note this one undoubtedly remains within copyright, so mindful of the cautions of >21 Zambaco:, perhaps not a good candidate for the shared drive.

ETA Another story in the same collection (Mrs Midnight and Other Stories) namedrops a slew of interesting names, from Crowley to John Dee, to Machen and MR James, incorporating them into the plot. Unsurprisingly the story revolves around an occult manuscript and what people will do to get it -- and what happens when they succeed. The story is "The Mortlake Manuscripts".

ETA Nominated Fall 2018

29AndreasJ
Jul 23, 2018, 11:12am Top

I'm disinclined to buy physical anthologies where I'm really only out for a single story. There's more than enough unread fiction on my shelves as-is.

Unfortunately, "Countess Otho" doesn't seem to be available in electronic format, at least as yet.

30Zambaco
Jul 23, 2018, 12:48pm Top

Have just realised I have a copy of "Countess Otho" in Mrs. Midnight and Other Stories - I must re-read it! Incidentally, the Tartarus Press editions of Reggie Oliver's collections are available in e-book format very cheaply, so maybe it is worth nominating them. Sadly the Elizabeth Jane Howard books are only available in the expensive hardback version, probably because of that old bugbear, copyright, again.

It is a real problem trying to get hold of more recent stories without buying a load of books you don't really want. I frequently miss out on these stories for that very reason.

31AndreasJ
Aug 10, 2018, 8:02am Top

Lovecraft's "Imprisoned with the Pharaohs"/ "Under the Pyramids" (ghostwritten for Houdini), mentioned in the "Shunned House" thread, is another we haven't done yet.

Checking that we'd indeed hadn't done it, I noted that Bloch's "The Fane of the Black Pharaoh" has the last word misspelt as "Pharoah" in the listing of previous discussions, which is inconvenient when searching. Could Kenton fix it?

32KentonSem
Aug 10, 2018, 10:25am Top

>31 AndreasJ:

Fixed "Pharaoh" and the story links are now up-to-date.

33AndreasJ
Edited: Aug 16, 2018, 12:43am Top

34RandyStafford
Aug 15, 2018, 11:29pm Top

I see in Dark Mind, Dark Heart there's a David H. Keller piece called "In Memoriam". Derleth describes it as "symbolic horror". I've always been interested to see what Keller as a horror writer is like. Seemingly only available in that collection though.

35Crypto-Willobie
Edited: Aug 16, 2018, 1:16am Top

A googledoc scan has been created for 'The Centaur Plays Croquet' (mentioned in >16 Crypto-Willobie: above), should that make the nomination cut or win votes. It's hard to describe -- one might say it exists along the Machen-Cabell-Faulkner continuum. It is 'framed' by some letters and legal documents but the main events occur in a regular-story core.

36paradoxosalpha
Edited: Aug 28, 2018, 2:02pm Top

I think we've talked about including an R. A. Lafferty story before, but not yet done it.

I'm considering "Splinters," which appeared in Charles Grant's Shadows anthology.

37elenchus
Aug 28, 2018, 4:14pm Top

Ah, I'd be interested in Lafferty. The one work of his I've read was certainly weird and could be considered SciFi Weird. In the vein that PK Dick mined, anyway.

38KentonSem
Aug 28, 2018, 4:22pm Top

Centipede Press has been gradually releasing all of Lafferty's short stories. I sold the first two volumes, mainly because I didn't think I could afford to keep buying the entire run. They were snapped up instantly. Probably be kicking myself later on. Good choice, though, and I have the Shadows paperback.

39KentonSem
Edited: Aug 31, 2018, 11:29am Top

We're about to discuss "The Idol of the Flies" by Jane Rice. A Yes!Weekly magazine article has this to say:

{Rice's} other most famous story is "The Refugee", one of the most reprinted werewolf stories in the English language. Bestselling horror and suspense novelist Peter Straub included it in his massive 2009 Library of America anthology American Fantastic Tales: Terror and the Uncanny from the 1940s to Now, alongside stories by Shirley Jackson, John Cheever, Truman Capote, Vladimir Nabokov and Fred Chappell. “I knew nothing of Jane Rice until the critic Gary K. Wolfe suggested I read her,” Straub said when I asked him how her work ended up in his anthology. “Somehow, I came across a copy of that wonderful story. I loved it right away, and thought it was one of the best pulp stories I’d ever read–clear, straight storytelling, in good, tight, effective prose.”

And it's available online...

http://storyoftheweek.loa.org/2011/03/refugee.html

40elenchus
Aug 31, 2018, 12:20pm Top

This thread is already proving its mettle, I think. I saw that LOA reference too and would have let it slip by. Glad you posted it here, I'll see what I think about Rice after reading "Flies".

41KentonSem
Sep 7, 2018, 4:07pm Top

This 2012 list/article by the VanderMeers is a really good one. I haven't read all of these authors.

http://weirdfictionreview.com/2012/12/fourteen-notable-women-writers-of-the-weir...

42elenchus
Edited: Dec 17, 2018, 10:47pm Top

I'm going to nominate one of those right now!

ETA Nominated Fall 2018 (Margaret St Clair)

43RandyStafford
Sep 9, 2018, 3:14pm Top

"Mappa Mundi" by Mary Butts is described as modernist weird. However, before I nominate it, I'm trying to see if it's available anywhere besides Butt's The Complete Stories.

44paradoxosalpha
Sep 9, 2018, 9:01pm Top

>43 RandyStafford:

Man, that would be great if we could read some Mary Butts! "Mappa Mundi" isn't even listed at isfdb.org, although they do have her "With and Without Buttons" (1938).

45elenchus
Edited: Dec 17, 2018, 10:57pm Top

From another LT thread, David R. Bunch appears to have an idiosyncratic take on cyborg Weird. Jeff VanderMeer provides the introduction to a recent NYRB reprint, and suspect there may be a sample story included in The Weird.

ETA Bunch does have a contribution in both Dangerous Visions and Dangerous Visions 2 so perhaps those would be appropriate. I'll try to dig further but posting here as a reminder.

ETA Nominated Fall 2018

46elenchus
Edited: Sep 18, 2018, 12:04pm Top

As paradoxosalpha noted in another thread, James Machin makes the argument for reading more John Buchan.

47paradoxosalpha
Sep 18, 2018, 12:15pm Top

Yeah, we've only read "The Grove of Ashtaroth" so far, and that was a tip from my Other Reader IIRC. I think that all of Buchan's early story collections are probably available on Project Gutenberg or comparable online venues. Maybe we could try "The Watcher by the Threshold"?

I just harvested a nomination idea from the the Machin interview: Gilchrist's "The Crimson Weaver."

48frahealee
Edited: Sep 18, 2018, 12:30pm Top

>46 elenchus:
>47 paradoxosalpha:
The collection I picked up for a buck recently includes 4xBuchan: The Keeper of Cademuir, No-man's-land, The Grove of Ashtaroth, The Watcher by the Threshold.

One done, one vote-underway, two more in the wings! =)

49paradoxosalpha
Sep 18, 2018, 12:43pm Top

With October impending, I was thinking of David Mitchell's Slade House. It's sold as a novel, but it's really sort of a necklace of linked short stories. What if I were to nominate a chapter?

50elenchus
Sep 24, 2018, 10:03am Top

After reading RandyStafford's review of Joel Jenkins's The Coming of Crow, posting here as a prompt to consider some Weird Western stories in an upcoming session.

>49 paradoxosalpha:
I've been meaning to read some Mitchell and that would be a welcome taster. (Even though we've missed the Autumn session.)

51paradoxosalpha
Sep 24, 2018, 10:39am Top

>50 elenchus:

If you're interested in Mitchell, I'd say go ahead and read Slade House for October anyway. It's a shortish novel, and it reads fast.

52KentonSem
Sep 24, 2018, 3:31pm Top

>50 elenchus:

Delving into some weird westerns is a really good idea. On the subject:

https://www.baen.com/straight-outta-tombstone.html

Apparently a follow-up volume called Straight Outta Deadwood has just been announced. There is also the Lansdale-edited Razored Saddles. The ToCs in those might provide some ideas.

53RandyStafford
Sep 24, 2018, 8:39pm Top

I'll give some thought to weird western nominees. I have several collections of them including Frontier Cthulhu which I've read but never reviewed.

I don't usually get the weird fiction frisson from them. I think of them more like a version of sword-and-sorcery. In the case of the best of the weird western series, there's a definite Robert E. Howard feeling.

>52 KentonSem: Growing up and attending school in Deadwood, I suppose I should be a loyal native son and pick up Straight Outta Deadwood

54RandyStafford
Sep 24, 2018, 8:44pm Top

A weird western tale straddling the horror and weird fiction line is Robert M. McCammon's "Black Boots", one of the most memorable stories from Razored Saddles. Unfortunately, like a lot of weird western work, it's not widely available. In this case, that's the only place ISFDB says it was printed.

55elenchus
Sep 24, 2018, 10:14pm Top

>51 paradoxosalpha:

Recalling my pleasurable foray last October with the Zelazny and Bradbury reads, I took the plunge and picked Slade House from the shelves at my local. Convenient that there were several copies available, no ILL required.

At this point, the opening story seems like a great nominee, but I'll keep reading and see if I pick another story-chapter instead.

56paradoxosalpha
Sep 25, 2018, 12:34am Top

>55 elenchus:

Mitchell made his name with long, braided novels like Cloud Atlas, but the vignette form that he uses in Slade House is really effective.

57KentonSem
Sep 25, 2018, 8:58am Top

>53 RandyStafford:

Definitely need to nominate some of Two-Gun Bob's weird westerns. I should add that his non-weird westerns are really entertaining, too. I've long been a McCammon fan, but I don't remember "Black Boots". Might have to hit that one this week. I like your Deadwood connection!

58KentonSem
Sep 25, 2018, 10:23am Top

Thanks to frahealee for pointing out this archive:

https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au

Could be useful for future nominations.

59frahealee
Edited: Sep 27, 2018, 9:45am Top

>58 KentonSem: Happy to contribute something of value rather than my own style of blathering. =)

I like the idea of "High Midnight" … bated breath impatience to see who replaces Gary Cooper and Grace Kelly!

This western Weird puts to mind Robin Hood and Friar Tuck: Zombie Killers … ordered it for my son, ended up keeping it. Written by a well-educated fan of Chaucer narrative prose, this novella uses rhyming couplets to tell a full funny gory story from beginning to end. It's in my book list, as the writer is a 'pal' from a writing forum, and I admire anyone who writes poetry/short prose/novels in multiple genres at that high level of talent. Not conducive to group study, perhaps, since not widely available or online. Just a new treatment of familiar old stomping grounds. Never tire of the merry men.

ETA:

Unsure if Edith Wharton has been considered or nominated previously, but here is a link of ten stories on the Univ.of Adelaide site. Might be light-weight scares but she was an intelligent daring prolific writer of novels, etc. in her day, and there might be a diamond in the dust. I read The Lady's Maid's Bell earlier this year, and liked it very much.

https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/w/wharton/edith/tales_of_men_and_ghosts/contents....

60elenchus
Edited: Oct 1, 2018, 9:25am Top

Saki's "The Music on the Hill"

"You don't really believe in Pan?" she asked incredulously.

"I've been a fool in most things," said Mortimer quietly, "but I'm not such a fool as not to believe in Pan when I'm down here. And if you're wise you won't disbelieve in him too boastfully while you're in his country."
Available online and I believe in various collections.

ETA Saki has another story that could be interpreted as thematically linked, "Gabriel-Ernest".

61agmlll
Oct 1, 2018, 8:25am Top

>45 elenchus: David R. Bunch's story "The Good War" is available online at Literary Hub.

https://lithub.com/the-good-war/

62elenchus
Oct 1, 2018, 9:25am Top

>61 agmlll:

Thanks for linking that, I'm curious to check it out!

63elenchus
Edited: Oct 3, 2018, 1:52pm Top

R. Murray Gilchrist has a number of Weird or supernatural stories. After reading "The Crimson Weaver", I'm encouraged to look for others.

His supernatural stories recently collected in The Basilisk (2003) by Ash-Tree Press and various online sources. Different content than Gilchrist's The Basilisk and Other Tales of Dread?

64elenchus
Edited: Oct 5, 2018, 10:21am Top

Various supernatural tales by Arthur Conan Doyle were gathered in a Dover edition, unclear if this is exhaustive or merely a selection.

ETA It appears we've read just one Doyle story thus far, "The Ring of Thoth" in October 2015.

65elenchus
Oct 8, 2018, 4:45pm Top

>61 agmlll:
>62 elenchus:

Bunch has a distinct voice, that's certain, and I hear the Philip K Dick in that voice. That story, at least, wouldn't be suitable for a Weird nomination, but I'll be looking out for the collected Moderan stories.

66agmlll
Oct 8, 2018, 9:59pm Top

There is haunted house story "Minuke" by Nigel Kneale you might want to check out. Among other things, Kneale wrote the screenplay for THE QUATERMASS EXPERIMENT in 1953 that bears a resemblance to the beginning of the VENOM movie that just came out.

67paradoxosalpha
Oct 8, 2018, 10:55pm Top

We've read one Nigel Kneale story before: "The Pond." (For some reason I don't see it on our list of past reads.) We could certainly do another.

68agmlll
Edited: Oct 9, 2018, 12:43am Top

Another good haunted house story I don't see on your list is W.W. Jacob's "The Toll-House."

The Monkey's Paw and Other Tales of Mystery and the Macabre

69agmlll
Oct 9, 2018, 1:59am Top

I don't know if is considered weird fiction, but John Dickson Carr's "Persons or Things Unknown" is a good story.

70KentonSem
Oct 9, 2018, 8:56am Top

>67 paradoxosalpha:

Corrected - it's under Winter 2018. Thumbs-up on another Kneale. And Jacobs.

71elenchus
Edited: Oct 9, 2018, 11:44am Top

This thread is already once again proving itself, thanks for the suggestions, agmlll.

72KentonSem
Oct 9, 2018, 11:34am Top

If the upcoming "At the Mountains of Madness" discussion is successful, I think that we might give "The Turn of the Screw" a go. The novellas are almost exactly the same length. We've had success with Henry James several times before. A recent re-watching of Jack Clayton's masterful THE INNOCENTS (1961) put me in mind of its source.

73elenchus
Edited: Dec 17, 2018, 10:58pm Top

I've read good things about Carmen Maria Machado's story collection, Her Body and Other Parties. One story from that collection -- "The Husband Stitch" -- is available online here. As per LitHub,
Machado’s work bends and transcends genre, incorporating elements of horror as well as fairy tale, realism, romance, erotica, and (famously) television.


ETA Nominated Winter 2018

74elenchus
Edited: Dec 17, 2018, 10:58pm Top

Raymond Chandler apparently published a supernatural story in Unknown, "The Bronze Door" (November 1939). Would seem a long way from his noir stories, but I do like his writing and plotting, and wonder what he would bring in the way of the macabre.

Online here: https://www.unz.com/print/Unknown-1939nov-00090/
A film short adaptation is here: https://vimeo.com/18888625>here.

ETA Nominated Winter 2018

75elenchus
Edited: Dec 17, 2018, 10:59pm Top

An intriguing review of a Michel de Ghelderode collection of stories: anyone here read his stuff? His biography certainly could raise some hackles, though I think we DEEP ONES regularly address such concerns with HPL's biography, so not unprecedented.

No idea if anything available online, nor how accessible the various editions of his stories would be.

Nominated Winter 2018 (KentonSem)

76paradoxosalpha
Oct 17, 2018, 4:16pm Top

It looks like little other than the new collection has been translated into English.

77KentonSem
Edited: Oct 18, 2018, 9:41am Top

78elenchus
Oct 18, 2018, 10:42am Top

>77 KentonSem:

And a nice review at Weird Fiction Review here:
http://weirdfictionreview.com/2017/06/review-spells-michel-de-ghelderode/

I think "A Twilight" would be a good nominee, though I've not yet read it.

79elenchus
Edited: Mar 1, 1:14pm Top

In another group, an LTer outlined what he refers to as "dark sylvan" stories (my term not his), and named a few authors we've read here (Charles Williams, John Buchan, Benson, Machen).

One author he included I've not thought of as an author of supernatural stories, but there is at least one such story and while it has a very positive rather than menacing tone (perhaps like a Dunsany but less whimsical, or even a John Crowley), I liked it well enough. E.M. Forster's, "The Curate's Friend", online here:

http://www.online-literature.com/forster/celestial-omnibus/5/

And included in at least two of his short story collections: The Celestial Omnibus and The Collected Short Stories.

A review here, which compares this story specifically to another of Guy Davenport:
https://www.webdelsol.com/LITARTS/In_Dissent/cooper9.htm

Another example, more contemporary: Richard Gavin.
Gavin's "Neithernor" free online at The Dark.
Other stories at http://www.richardgavin.net/

ETA
Forster's "The Curates Friend" nominated Winter 2018-2019
Gavin's "Neithernor" nominated Spring 2019

80elenchus
Edited: Dec 17, 2018, 10:59pm Top

Robert Shearman -- apparently best known for writing a certain Dalek episode for Doctor Who -- writes short stories which are usually odd and surreal and sometimes Weird.

"The Gift" being a story of a girl and her connection (or not?) to a string of clown deaths. Available online at The Dark magazine.
http://thedarkmagazine.com/the-gift/

ETA Nominated Winter 2018

81RandyStafford
Nov 1, 2018, 7:54pm Top

Shearman is an excellent recommendation. I've only read a bit of his work and liked it.

82WeeTurtle
Nov 2, 2018, 1:01am Top

I've never seen that publication before. I might read that just to get a feel for them. :)

83elenchus
Nov 2, 2018, 11:09am Top

I was impressed with both Shearman stories available at The Dark.

84RandyStafford
Nov 4, 2018, 6:12pm Top

As a follow up to HPL's "At the Mountains of Madness", I think Joe R. Lansdale's "At the Mad Mountains" would be interesting.

85AndreasJ
Nov 5, 2018, 10:37am Top

Inspired by the discussing on the AtMoM thread, the Lovecraft-Sterling collaboration "In the Walls of Eryx" came to my mind. Its perspective on the exploitation of Venus by human colonization is somewhat surprising coming from Lovecraft.

86Crypto-Willobie
Nov 9, 2018, 2:32pm Top

Well, this one is clearly too long for our readings, AND I haven't read it myself, BUT this review invokes the names of Machen, Blackwood and Lovecraft, so I thought I'd just bring it to anyone's attention here. Good blog too.

https://prettysinister.blogspot.com/2018/11/ffb-maynards-house-herman-raucher.ht...

87elenchus
Nov 9, 2018, 8:32pm Top

It sounds intriguing and I wonder what else I might find on that blog.

Interestingly, no LT reviews either.

88Crypto-Willobie
Nov 9, 2018, 8:41pm Top

Mostly about mystery and suspense but it occasionally wanders into weird and horror...

89KentonSem
Nov 26, 2018, 3:48pm Top

Thinking I might nominate "The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath". It features Nyarlathotep, after all, along with Zoogs, Night Gaunts, cats from Ulthar and elsewhere, Pickman & ghouls, and more. I'm really enjoying re-reading it. There's a lot of meat for DEEP ONES.

90paradoxosalpha
Nov 26, 2018, 4:12pm Top

It's a long one, but I don't know how much longer it is than "At the Mountains of Madness."

91KentonSem
Nov 26, 2018, 10:36pm Top

>90 paradoxosalpha:

Found a page with Grandpa's word counts. AtMoM clocks in at 40,881. TDQoUK is a bit longer at 42,589. I'd guess it amounts to approx. 20 pages?

92elenchus
Nov 27, 2018, 9:41am Top

I'd say worth nominating and we see how it comes out. My impression is that the AtMoM read was successful, despite the added length, and demonstrated that DEEP ONES can include a novella or novelette along with shorter fiction in each session. But I may have read the room incorrectly, that's why we vote!

93elenchus
Dec 15, 2018, 1:42pm Top

I've been intrigued by recent RandyStafford reviews of William Meikle. There appear to be many short stories from which to choose but I've not looked into how available any are --especially, free online versions.

94RandyStafford
Dec 15, 2018, 4:10pm Top

>93 elenchus: The problem you return to with modern authors like William Meikle and David Hambling is that most of what they publish is in e-book form and little of it can be checked out from a library though both authors, from time to time, have their work discounted or free -- though you still have to have an e-book reader.

Also, with Meikle, most of the work is pulpish in its action emphasis though not all of it. (Not that I mind pulp.) I think a lot of it sort of bears the same relationship to the weird that the occult detective (which Meikle has written a lot of) or sword-and-sorcery stories do.

95elenchus
Dec 15, 2018, 8:12pm Top

Good points, I definitely consider that limitation and prefer to find selections that are available in more than one format. Yet every now and again I'll make an exception, and your reviews have me thinking Meikle might be one such author. I'd want to rely upon you or someone else to suggest the specific story, though.

96WeeTurtle
Dec 17, 2018, 3:00am Top

Is it okay to be casual about this stuff? I keep intending to join in the reading but get overwhelmed rather fast. I put a couple "yes" votes in the nomination thread of things I want to read, but didn't tick anything "no" because I don't think it's fair when I doubt I could read the lot anyway.

97AndreasJ
Dec 17, 2018, 3:21am Top

>96 WeeTurtle:

I confess I've wondered why some voters evidently vote in only a selection of the votes (and not necessarily just the first ones), I guess yours is a reasonable enough reason.

I can almost guarantee that there won't be any piscine men roughing you up if you only participate in some reads. Looking back, I've probably only read something like 2/3 or 3/4 of the stories myself, and in some cases I've read them long after the scheduled week.

98elenchus
Dec 17, 2018, 9:52am Top

>96 WeeTurtle:
>97 AndreasJ:

I'd agree casual is welcome and even encouraged -- and like AndreasJ, I've often wondered how / why some voters only made selections for some nominees. But it's only wondered, never an urge to admonish: I'm OCD in this way, I get an itch if I find out I left off a vote!

99frahealee
Dec 18, 2018, 4:18am Top

I have only had the pleasure of voting twice, but I vote for all or none. Rarely a no, sometimes an undecided, usually a yes. If I vote I feel invested in the process and the participation, and duty-bound so to speak. The research became too much to manage, so switching back to my novels for a time became necessary, but plans to return to each story in due course has not altered. Weekly is wonderful but often unattainable, until an increase in knowledge builds a few reflexes. With four children, even grown, at Christmas... you can imagine my time is not my own.

100WeeTurtle
Dec 18, 2018, 4:40am Top

>99 frahealee:

Yeah, it's sort of the same for me. I clicked "yes" on the ones I've decided to read, and left the others alone since I had no plans to read them, whether I liked them or not, so my 'no' vote really wouldn't mean anything to me but would affect other readers.

101elenchus
Edited: Jan 2, 2:32pm Top

I think I mentioned this once but was reminded in a recent "Best of 2018" list of Dale Nelson's Lady Stanhope's Manuscript and Other Stories.

Anyone read any Dale Nelson stories? Not widely available at all, but his stories are given high praise so I'm curious.

102housefulofpaper
Edited: Jan 2, 4:21pm Top

>101 elenchus:

I'll check my Tartarus Press books and copies of Ghosts and Scholars.

- nope, didn't find anything. He might be included in the themes anthologies that Ghosts and Scholars Rosemary Pardoe has edited for Sarob Press. And/or the later volumes of Tartarus Press' anthology series - all in the TBR pile, unfortunately.

103KentonSem
Jan 3, 9:05am Top

After some intriguing points were made about Molly Tanzer's "Mysterium Tremendum", I'm placing the following story here as a possible Spring 2019 nomination.

https://lovecraftzine.com/magazine/issues/2012-2/issue-20-december-2012/herbert-...

104elenchus
Edited: Mar 7, 4:10pm Top

Came across reference to Chris Priestley's trilogy of horror tales, evidently linked by a framing story but capable of standing alone.

Uncle Montague's Tales of Terror
Tales of Terror from the Black Ship
Tales of Terror from the Tunnel's Mouth

ETA Judging from the online samples at his author site, they are addressed to children and quite well written. Priestley likes to reference or pastiche famous stories and authors, including MR James. I shall look into getting the first to read to my children, but for now won't nominate a story.

105Zambaco
Jan 7, 12:26pm Top

Has the group ever read and discussed Oliver Onions' 'The beckoning fair one'? If not, I'll nominate it in the next planning thread. An excellent ghost story and easily available online.

107KentonSem
Edited: Jan 8, 1:46pm Top

>105 Zambaco:, >106 paradoxosalpha:

And luckily DEEP ONES discussions never close! ;-)

108Zambaco
Jan 8, 12:45pm Top

A great discussion there, with participants really picking up on the madness/haunting ambiguity that was what impressed me about the story. Can't really add much more to the discussion. But for anyone who hasn't already read it, I would recommend it highly. Available online via project Gutenberg (look for the volume Widdershins, in which it first appeared).

109RandyStafford
Jan 16, 5:07pm Top

A couple from Dan Simmons: "Lovedeath" (a poet's visions in the trenches of WWI with several bits of WWI poetry worked in) and "The River Styx Runs Upstream", Simmons first publication.

110KentonSem
Feb 14, 2:28pm Top

Well, we've pretty successfully covered 3 of HPL's four short novels. How about The Case of Charles Dexter Ward? After our recent visit to the Dream Lands, this one would bring us back down to Providence in all it's gothic, witchy glory. With a bit of Yog-Sothery, too.

111AndreasJ
Feb 15, 12:38am Top

I was intending to nominate TCoCDW next time, with a note that it's HPL's longest work of fiction, roughly a quarter longer than At the Mountains of Madness or The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath.

112elenchus
Feb 26, 8:11pm Top

The compilation The Lucifer Society might have a few stories suitable for nomination: familiar names but unfamiliar stories.

113KentonSem
Edited: Feb 28, 12:10pm Top

>112 elenchus:

I don't have a copy, but I've known that cover for decades, thanks to Captain Company ads in the back of early 70's issues of Famous Monsters of Filmland magazine.



ToC w/ story descriptions:

http://vaultofevil.proboards.com/thread/5188/haining-detours-macabre-lucifer-soc...

114KentonSem
Edited: Feb 28, 12:47pm Top

I was recently blown away by Things We Lost in the Fire, by Mariana Enriquez. Dark fiction, indeed. It had me digging out copies of Cortazar and Borges in hope of getting another taste of that particular Argentinian vibe. Ms. Enriquez has referred to HPL and weird fiction in at least one interview I've read, but she's on another level altogether. One of the stories from her collection is available online:

https://granta.com/intoxicated-years/

115WeeTurtle
Mar 2, 7:31am Top

I put in a couple votes for the stories I felt I would read, but given that I didn't get to all of the ones I intended too the last couple months, I still don't really feel right voting "no" on anything. Access matters a good part.

116paradoxosalpha
Mar 2, 6:36pm Top

Nominations tend to keep trickling in until sometime during the final week of voting.

117Crypto-Willobie
Mar 12, 1:13pm Top

Latest issue of the free online horror mag 'HelloHorror':
http://hellohorror.com/TableofContents26.htm

118frahealee
Edited: Mar 13, 10:16am Top

Can we do another story by Ambrose Bierce sometime? I didn't realize that he'd crafted so many! There are dozens on that ebooks archive site by the University of Adelaide. I am not nearly sophisticated enough to set up one of those fancy voting polls nor do I know which short stories might have already been discussed to date. I am going to read Owl Creek and The Damned Thing right now! Then some Hawthorne (Minister's Black Veil, etc. all contained on that same site). Thank you for this thread, most convenient!

119elenchus
Mar 13, 11:25am Top

>118 frahealee:

It appears we've read several Bierce stories, and each should have the standard thread.

An Inhabitant of Carcosa
The Damned Thing
The Suitable Surroundings
Staley Fleming's Hallucination
Beyond the Wall
Haïta the Shepherd

But always open to another nomination!

120frahealee
Edited: Mar 16, 10:00am Top

119
Lovely, thanks for the summary! There goes another full day =D

Also, while I think of it... in researching gothic/ghost stories by Mary Elizabeth Braddon, I found a book of 18 collected tales of the supernatural or weird entitled The Cold Embrace and other stories. This then suggested a Joshi collection of 19 called The Cold Embrace: Weird Stories by Women. It contains one by Gaskell, whom I'd also been studying. The book has works of Shelley (Transformation), Woolf (whom I've never read), May Sinclair, Vernon Lee, etc. I have no Joshi anthologies but he has been much quoted in this group and the Gothic Literature group, so I would be very interested to see why he chose what he did select for that book. I need to sort out particulars before listing actual suggestions suitable for this group, but didn't want to forget this train of thought in the meantime!

121elenchus
Edited: Jun 15, 5:59pm Top

Potential candidates by Edith Wharton, including "Kerfol," "Mr. Jones," "Pomegranate Seed," and "Miss Mary Pask" -- each available in The Ghost Stories of Edith Wharton and potentially online.

NOMINATED "Kerfol" Summer 2019

122KentonSem
Apr 17, 11:19am Top

Related to our current reading of "The Night Wire" by H.F. Arnold, it seems that Stephen Graham Jones wrote a related tale called "Xebico", which can be found online here:

http://weirdfictionreview.com/2012/10/xebico/

123elenchus
May 17, 4:27pm Top

French proto-Weird author(s) Rosny and two novellas: unclear on the availability of English translations, but appear to be great examples of Cosmic Weird.

From Scott Nicolay's blog post (as pointed out by RandyStafford):
No one can say for sure where The Weird begins in literature, in any tongue, but for all its obvious elements of what would later become science fiction, “Les Xipéhuz” is definitely a powerful and important early example of cosmic horror and The Weird. Before Kubin. Before Machen. Before Dunsany, Blackwood, Chambers, James, or Shiel. Well before Lovecraft and Hodgson. Nor is this the only tale in Rosny’s oeuvre to include a healthy dose of cosmic horror. Equally notable is his 1910 novella “La Mort de la Terre” (“The Death of the Earth”), with which “Les Xipéhuz” is often paired in translation. Both stories depict humanity struggling against an inorganic race for dominion of the Earth.


124RandyStafford
May 18, 1:56pm Top

>123 elenchus: I have not read "Les Xipehuz", but I have read Rosny's "Tornadres" which is kind of a precursor to Lovecraft's "The Colour Out of Space". You can find it in Brian Stableford's Scientific Romance.

125elenchus
Edited: Jun 15, 5:58pm Top

Kit Reed's 1962 story, "The New You", available from LOA in both the collection The Future is Female! and online as a Story of the Week.

A doppelgaenger tale, in the style of Serling's Twlight Zone or perhaps Alfred Hitchcock Presents.

LOA editors wrote about her novel, seemingly related in theme if not strictly the same material:
Fifteen years ago Kit Reed published her twenty-second novel, the darkly satirical Thinner than Thou, which imagined a near future when a new religion has formed around weight loss and body consciousness. The advance notices, most of them filled with praise, prepared readers for a disturbing read. “Unsettling, sometimes appalling: satire edging remorselessly toward reality,” concluded the notice in Kirkus Reviews. The starred review in Booklist agreed that “Reed’s visionary tale is brilliant, though at times painful to read.”


http://storyoftheweek.loa.org/2019/05/the-new-you.html

NOMINATED Summer 2019

127AndreasJ
Edited: Jun 22, 3:11pm Top

Looking up Mariana Enriquez, the author of next week's story, I noticed that another of her short stories, "Spiderweb", is available at The New Yorker:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/12/19/spiderweb

128KentonSem
Oct 2, 9:40am Top

129paradoxosalpha
Edited: Oct 4, 12:32pm Top

"The King in the Golden Mask" by Marcel Schwob appears to be a significant jauniste forerunner!
https://www.sfsite.com/05b/rm128.htm

130elenchus
Oct 4, 1:23pm Top

Wow.

Schwob seems to be quite a find, and with many of his stories evidently under 4 pages, well worth giving a try --assuming we can find one.

131paradoxosalpha
Oct 4, 2:19pm Top

I just wishlisted the Wakefield Press paperback of The King in the Golden Mask and Other Stories. It's an affordable paperback available on Amazon.

132KentonSem
Oct 9, 10:28pm Top

Referred to in "No. 252 Rue M. le Prince" by Ralph Adams Cram:

"The Haunted and the Haunters: Or the House and the Brain" by Edward Bulwer-Lytton

https://www.bartleby.com/166/6.html

133elenchus
Edited: Oct 10, 2:33pm Top

Theodore Sturgeon's More Than Human a timely counter to the current rage for Marvel / DC-style superheroes, reminding us that there's a seriously Weird side to such characters. No costumes, no cities held ransom, no diabolical laughter or plans to take over the world. It helps that the writing is beautiful and efficient.

The novel is divided into three sections, the middle of which was first published in Galaxy Magazine as a novella: "Baby Is Three".

The novella is widely anthologised, and available online free at the Internet Archive here.

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