What Fine Press to choose?

TalkFine Press Forum

Join LibraryThing to post.

What Fine Press to choose?

1Joshbooks1
Mar 25, 2021, 8:23 am

Hello all, I'm new to this group and am getting more into fine press books. For years I have been collecting Folio Society standard and limited editions and am starting to branch out. I believe Folio has sold out and the love, nearly obsession, I had with the company is slowly diminishing. The quality of limited editions are no where near what they used to be and almost everything now is popular literature, sci-fi, and fantasy. Even The Road published in their last catalog fits the new Folio bill: already a movie, easy read, by far not the author's best work but a popular theme which has been done so many times before - it will sell... a lot. I haven't ordered one book on their catalog for the past year, although I'll probably get the Tristam Shandy, Madame Bovary, and maybe Herodotus, but with the superior readability of the Landmark Herodotus, whats the point?

My strategy is still in the making but I plan to sell a lot of my Folio standard editions. I would like to focus on better quality limited editions and use the rest of my bookshelf space (and funds) with my favorite, cheaper publishers: NYRB, Library of America, Everyman's Library, and Archipelago Books.

What publishers would this group recommend? My main interests are in literature and classical studies. I pre-ordered Octavia Butler's Thornwillow edition to see if I like the publisher; I'm only a couple hours away from their company so I'd love to support them. Also, what are people's thoughts on Arion Press? If I subscribe, looking at what three books to order, it seems like more than half are stunning: Don Quixote, Paradise Lost, Dickinson's Sampler, Melville's Short Stories, Exit Ghost, etc. However, quite a few are books that I wouldn't buy for $100 let alone 5-10x that price. I do like most of their obscure selections and it seems like they have been sticking to their same model for decades. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to help and any suggestions would be great!

2abysswalker
Mar 25, 2021, 9:14 am

>1 Joshbooks1: it sounds like you are primarily interested in supporting currently operating publishers and presses, rather than considering older work?

I ask both to help you clarify so that other more knowledgeable members can give you better suggestions, and also to note that if you are willing and able to pay current Folio Society limited edition prices, that same money will go a long way on the fine press secondhand market, assuming you don’t immediately set your sights on the biggest fish.

3dlphcoracl
Edited: Mar 25, 2021, 4:12 pm

>1 Joshbooks1:

1. Arion Press - very overpriced. Mediocre quality for the prices currently being charged.

2. Recommended active private presses: Foolscap Press, Barbarian Press, the Old Stile Press. Hand & Eye Letterpress (Phil Abel).

3. Recommended older (inactive presses), in order of decreasing cost: Ashendene, Officina Bodoni, Sidney Shiff Limited Edition Club (LEC) books (1990-1999), older Arion Press (1975-1995), Allen Press, Yolla Bolly Press, early Sidney Shiff LEC books (1980-1990), selected (VERY selected) older George Macy LEC books (1929-1979).

Collector's tip #1: the early Sidney Shiff LEC books (1980-1990), Allen Press, Yolla Bolly Press, the Old Stile Press and several George Macy LEC books represent excellent value.

Collectors tip #2: the George Macy LEC books printed by Giovanni (Hans) Mardersteig at the Officina Bodoni - about 18 or so - are exceptional values and should be aggressively collected, e.g., The Georgics, The Toilers of the Sea, Ovid's Metamorphoses, etc.

4LBShoreBook
Mar 25, 2021, 2:22 pm

>1 Joshbooks1: I just subscribed to AP and was impressed with the quality of the books I ordered to subscribe. I purchased Don Quixote and Paradise Lost (DQ counted as 2 of my 3 books from the back catalogue). The recent Steinbeck book is really well done but not really my jam - that is the risk of the subscription model. They are publishing The Nose in April and it looks really interesting but I will confess the price seems pretty high for a short story - $875 for the basic edition. It comes with a flipbook, clamshell case, etc, etc. but all that doesn't have me doing jumping jacks for the ROI on that one. I recently ordered Tono-Bungay from the back catalogue and have several others I intend to purchase ... not sure if I will keep the subscription after I work through the back catalogue orders, it will depend on what they publish over the next 12-18 months.

5ultrarightist
Mar 25, 2021, 2:34 pm

>4 LBShoreBook: I have the AP Paradise Lost and think it is outstanding. The ideal reading copy.

6ultrarightist
Mar 25, 2021, 2:34 pm

>3 dlphcoracl: Is the Old Stile Press active or inactive? You have it listed as both.

7LBShoreBook
Mar 25, 2021, 2:38 pm

>5 ultrarightist: Agreed, I love it. I subscribed to get DQ but Paradise Lost was beyond my expectations.

8abysswalker
Mar 25, 2021, 3:01 pm

>4 LBShoreBook: Arion with recent releases seems to be leaning into premium extras as differentiation strategy. Flipbook? No thank you.

I just want a well made book in a slipcase with impeccable production, some degree of intellectual seriousness, and level of taste in choice of works. Arion’s Paradise Lost remains one of my favorite books in my collection, but I wouldn’t be tempted if it had been produced in the manner of the recent Steinbeck. They have always had some releases with quirky binding choices or extras. For example, the edition they put out of Calvino’s Invisible Cities looks like a cookbook to me with the four ring binder. The edition of Genesis is beautiful printing but the chemise presentation seems to be unnecessary affectation. I think the intent was to allude to older holy manuscript traditions but the effect is more like “in sheets” with box. Pale Fire includes the second mini volume of index cards rather than just letting the main volume shine.

I hope they return to releases in the style of the Lampedusa, the Ben Franklin, the Edith Wharton, the Melville poems, etc. Though not all these releases are for me, they are still in the ballpark, and I could imagine venturing into these waters.

9dpbbooks
Edited: Mar 25, 2021, 3:21 pm

What state do you live in? It is often interesting to collect/support your more local fine press printers/proprietors. California, where I live, has many old as well as contemporary fine presses. Grabhorn, Ward Ritchie/Laguna Verde Imprenta, Allen Press, Yolla Bolly Press, Colt Press, Plantin Press, John Henry Nash, Peter Koch, Arion Press, Artichoke Editions, Bieler Press, Black Sparrow Press, Oyez Press, Greenwood Press, Heyeck Press, Lime Kiln Press, Moving Parts Press, Ninja Press, Poltroon Press, Tangram Press, Turkey Press . . . . I could go on and on. Enough to keep you busy for years.

10LBShoreBook
Mar 25, 2021, 3:35 pm

>8 abysswalker: Yes, I can't say the flipbook excites me either - it feels like a way to tack on more to a 25-page short story. They commissioned a translation and artist for this edition, which is great, but at the end of the day this is a Gogol short story with a lot of bells and whistles to plump up the package and price. So I agree with you there (and I actually really like Gogol). Agree on Steinbeck, not to my taste either in terms of aesthetics. I still find the subscription worth it (so far) due to the 30% reduction I get on the back catalogue - I really like Pushkin and plan to buy Nabokov's translation, Melville's poems, maybe the Ben Franklin autobiography (I like the styling of the book, not sure I would ever read it a second time), there are a few others.

When I joined they let me know a future publication in the works is Patti Smith's Woolgathering. I have not read any of her books but I can't say a limited edition press version of one of her books is something that has me jumping for joy either. We'll see how it goes - definitely pros and cons to subscribing.

11punkrocker924
Mar 25, 2021, 5:23 pm

To me, it feels like there's a big difference between the "big" fine presses which produce books with hundreds of pages like Thornwillow or Arion or LEC or Folio, and the small fine presses, whose books are smaller and feel more handmade and artisan and unique. I just started collecting in the pandemic, and to me the biggest thing I'm learning is that I tend to like the latter group better. I've heard people use the term "fine press" versus "private press" and I gather that "private press" describes the group I'm referring to?

As a new collector too, I began collecting because of Thornwillow's campaigns on kickstarter, but I actually quickly learned that it's the smaller presses that I most like. I recommend Pegana Press (as I am a big fan of horror and fantasy), No Reply Press (inexpensive and so far all good), Old Stile Press (inexpensive and stunning, but I don't really like their choice of titles), St James Park Press (though maybe too expensive), Clinker Press (though I just have the yellow wallpaper), Wolfe Editions (same...), and Corvus Works (Chris sends a ton of great stuff with every package).

This forum has been a big help for me in finding out what I like.

12filox
Mar 25, 2021, 5:24 pm

There's quite literally hundreds of fine presses, certainly more than enough to satisfy any style/quirk you enjoy. Some presses worth mentioning that haven't been mentioned yet: Golden Cockrel Press, Gwasg Gregynog, Pennyroyal Press, Janus Press, with the latter two being at the more expensive end of fine presses.

14grifgon
Mar 25, 2021, 5:42 pm

>3 dlphcoracl: +1 for Old Stile Press

>13 wcarter: An essential resource!

15LBShoreBook
Mar 25, 2021, 5:46 pm

>12 filox: I really like the Barry Moser prints at Pennyroyal. I learned about him through his AP publications and think his work is fantastic.

16kdweber
Mar 25, 2021, 5:57 pm

I agree with >3 dlphcoracl:. I only have two subscriptions: Foolscap Press and the Barbarian Press.

17abysswalker
Edited: Mar 25, 2021, 6:09 pm

>11 punkrocker924:
I've heard people use the term "fine press" versus "private press" and I gather that "private press" describes ... [the small fine presses, whose books are smaller and feel more handmade and artisan and unique]

This is a reasonable clarification for a specific discussion, but doesn't quite match how this term is often used in the bibliographic world. For example, Colin Franklin discusses presses such as Kelmscott, Vale, Ashendene, Doves, Golden Cockerel, and Gregynog, among others, in his 1969 book The Private Presses, and many of those presses produced books with hundreds of pages.

18astropi
Mar 25, 2021, 6:22 pm

>3 dlphcoracl: Have to disagree here on some points.

1)Some Arion Press books are very expensive, but the quality such seems impeccable! Take Sea of Cortez
https://www.arionpress.com/store/sea-of-cortez-by-john-steinbeck-and-ed-ricketts...
I don't have it, but everyone that owns it says it's fabulous, and I tend to believe them. Expensive? Sure, although if you have a subscription you get a whopping 30% discount which is huge. Secondly, take a look at this beauty
https://www.arionpress.com/store/90-south-of-heaven
I have this. Is it worth $425? No, it's worth much more! Absolutely gorgeous book that did not get the love nor attention it deserves! Eventually this will sell out, and then it will probably sell for $1000+ on the second-hand market which honestly is apropos.

2)Barbarian Press in my opinion is overpriced, for the most part. Not that they don't produce beautiful books, but I personally find most of their work too idiosyncratic. I mean, I really do not care for yet another book on wood engraving for $1500+

3)For the most part I have not found older Arion Press books at affordable prices. They do appreciate in value, with some titles becoming truly iconic, such as of course the 1979 Moby Dick which is universally regarded as one of the great examples of books as art, and I would be stunned if you found a copy for under $10,000 (at least in fine condition)!

I love the Allen Press, but many of their books are incredibly expensive if you want a copy in near-fine condition. By "expensive" I mean $1000+

The Limited Editions Club is the best place in my opinion to get the most out of your money. That said, their books are (as it should) going up in value. A few years ago you could find a near-fine copy of War of the Worlds and The Time Machine for under $100. Lowest I saw recently was $300. Totally worth the cost! Also note that there are also Heritage Press books which are also wonderful books but not signed nor (arguably) as "fine" as the LEC. That said, there are also LEC books that I would consider rather blasé and many books that I wished the LEC had published but never did.

If you're looking for more niche titles, there are some truly specialize and wonderful fine presses such Pegana Press which publishes Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith, etc.
https://peganapress.com/

Ultimately, you're going to have to explore and see what is right for you. I will say that fine press books are expensive most any way you look at it! Totally worth the cost, but expensive nevertheless! Happy collecting :)

19kdweber
Mar 25, 2021, 6:53 pm

>18 astropi: I agree, the AP Sea of Cortez is gorgeous. Monstrously expensive, but gorgeous, and very well made.
Only 5 of the Barbarian Press titles are Endgrain editions about wood engravers.
Most of my 25 Arion Press titles were bought used and cost less than list price but I don't own any of their "famous" books.
18 of my 28 Allen Press editions cost me between $100 and $300. I only have one of the five titles that go for over $1000.
The LEC has the best bang for the buck for a fine press book and is a great place to get started. That said, if there was a fire and I could only grab 10 books, not one of my 464 LECs would make the cut.

20astropi
Edited: Mar 25, 2021, 8:02 pm

>19 kdweber: The prices you quote are either from years ago or you were able to score an amazing deal, or the books have substantial blemishes making them removed from near-fine. I have not seen any Allen Press books less than $300 that are in near-fine condition and I think expecting to find any (near-fine) around $100 is entirely unrealistic today.

Only 5 of the Barbarian Press titles are Endgrain editions about wood engravers.
Not counting broadsides or such items, how many Barbarian Press titles have been published?
In comparison, how many of your 464 LECs are about wood engravers? Rhetorical question, the answer is 0 :)

21ambyrglow
Mar 25, 2021, 9:38 pm

>11 punkrocker924: "Clinker Press (though I just have the yellow wallpaper)"

What did you think of this edition? I've been eying it (as well as their copy of The Raven) but it's hard to commit when there's so little information about them on the web.

22kdweber
Mar 25, 2021, 10:41 pm

>20 astropi: All my Allen Press titles are NF or Fine. I bought 3 Allen Press titles last year (2020) for prices between $125 and $275: The Private Journals of Stendhal: 1811-1817, Jealousy, and Egypt. I'm always on the lookout for well priced Allen Press editions. It helps to have patience when building a library.

23astropi
Edited: Mar 25, 2021, 11:46 pm

>22 kdweber: That's a great price. Lowest price I could find for a copy in NF/F condition is $350. Sometimes I have to say I'm quite amused by what sellers say about the book. Recently one noted the following in the book I was looking at, "missing spine, but else a fine copy". Yeah.

24Joshbooks1
Mar 26, 2021, 3:48 pm

Thank you all for all the comments and resources - I have a lot of research to do! I think I'll subscribe to Arion soon and at least try it for a year or two and see if I like it. I certainly will pick up Don Quixote and Paradise Lost. I live in Amherst, MA, so I'll obviously have to pick up the Dickinson volume during my subscription. I do really like the Thornwillow Poe half-leather volume but not sure if it's worth the current price and wish I was aware of the company when they had the Kickstarter project of the volume. Anyway, can't thank this group enough for all of your help.

25LBShoreBook
Mar 26, 2021, 4:09 pm

>24 Joshbooks1: As I noted above, those are the exact books I picked up when I subscribed and they are fantastic. I don't think you will be disappointed. You mentioned Melville in the back catalogue and that is on my list as well (he is my favorite author) but you referenced short stories. The AP book is his poetry - snippets from his Civil War collection, Clarel, etc. I think the book is still worth it as it uses the same hand-made paper as the Moby Dick edition (with the whale water color) and same artist. And I am warming up to his poetry (slowly), but just thought worth flagging before you purchase. If the book was his short stories instead of his poetry I doubt there would still be editions remaining from the 1995 publication.

26Joshbooks1
Mar 26, 2021, 4:42 pm

>25 LBShoreBook: I also love Melville and he and Faulkner are my two favorite American authors. I have never read any of his poetry which is why the volume intrigued me. I am always 'planning' on Clarel but it seems daunting at times and keep putting it on my to read pile. And thanks to your post I thought Don Quixote would be considered one of three for the subscription and was hesitant ordering two more in one go. Now it'll be a little more affordable. Can't thank you enough.

27Pellias
Mar 26, 2021, 4:47 pm

I made my first order from Pegana Press today. Cassilda's Song (a broadside) from The King in Yellow. I have been on the fence for `Dark Dreamlands` Lovecraft series for around a year - It`s rich, very rich in price indeed, but looks so nice. So crisp, well made and the illustrations fat and juicy (looks like they are taken out of a 90`s amiga computergame - love them). The exterior of the book can look, well, kind of simple. But in this case one should not judge the book by it`s cover, fully handmade and all. Anyone own these? Astropi or Punkrocker (is punk still the shit?)

28LBShoreBook
Mar 26, 2021, 5:09 pm

>26 Joshbooks1: Enjoy your books and I look forward to seeing some of the others ones that you acquire going forward.

29kdweber
Mar 26, 2021, 5:31 pm

>27 Pellias: I own copies of both Dark Dreamlands books and have pre-ordered the third. I am not a big fan of the font chosen, nice to look at but a little more work to read, and the binding is fairly simple but apt. The illustrations are great and work very well with the stories. The books are well done and little jewels but steeply priced. Still, I don't blame the press. I believe all the work is hand done by Rita and Mike and the limitation is only 100 copies. Frankly, I don't understand how they can afford to stay in business.

30Pellias
Mar 26, 2021, 5:53 pm

>29 kdweber: I listened to their podcast this morning (on the other side of the planet)

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8xNDhlNTJiMC9wb2RjYXN... (one episode, and a year since the last update. Sounded relaxed then at least)

Font, yes. Probably meant to spend a lot of time with it. This is one of those sets/volumes I might regret later. But the price in total, auch. Keeps me back. `The Woods` broadside and `Moon Bog` Chapbook would make a nice second price.

31abysswalker
Mar 26, 2021, 6:22 pm

>24 Joshbooks1: you may also wish to consider the LEC collection of Dickinson’s poems. In my opinion, it is superior in every regard (style, content, illustrations, binding, value for price, ... haven’t compared the paper directly, but the LEC paper is nice).

32Sorion
Edited: Mar 26, 2021, 11:08 pm

>31 abysswalker: and >24 Joshbooks1: Also recommend the edition by Alberto Tallone Editore https://www.talloneeditoreshop.com/tallone/en/catalog/23-poems-emily-dickinson.h...

I received this for Christmas and can’t recommend it enough. The press work is fantastic and the price is reasonable.

33dmitrip
Mar 26, 2021, 11:53 pm

>1 Joshbooks1: I think it depends on what you are after. For broad range of literature with interesting illustrations - I'd def look at Arion Press, and of course LEC and Yolla Bolly Press for inactive presses. Thornwillow if you like it (i tend to like it less). If typography is your thing - Tallone Editore (most books not in English though). Foolscap and Barbarian are great but pretty idiosyncratic, and less output than Arion. For poetry/shorter artist books there are tons of presses. Old Stile Press is great too.

Re Arion specifically - this forum tends to hold pretty negative views on them, I am not quite sure why. I guess worst thing that can be said about Arion is that the books are a bit expensive. I happen to really like them. Most of these publishers have fairly detailed websites, take a look and you can decide if it's your thing.

This hobby can get pretty expensive pretty quickly. I think you have to assume you will "lose" 50%-70% on every purchase vs resale etc. If you are still comfortable - go for it. I would buy at auctions (from Christies/Sothebys to PBA Galleries/Forum Auctions etc, depends on budget), usually a better way to build a collection but requires patience, sometimes a lot of it. Some dealers (e.g. Sophie Schneideman Rare Books) have very extensive collections too.

34punkrocker924
Mar 27, 2021, 3:06 am

>21 ambyrglow: The Yellow Wallpaper from Clinker Press is really good for the price. It's a little plain and there are tons of typos throughout (perversely a positive for me, since it shows how it was handmade by one guy) but for the price I can't complain. If I were you I'd get it and see if you like it before getting ay others, the Clinker books all have the same "feel" so if you like it you'll like the others.

>33 dmitrip: I also don't understand the negativity toward Arion Press. I always love seeing what they come up with, even if I don't purchase them usually. I think they're a good thing for the whole fine press world and from what I've heard some presses which DO get a lot of love here were started by people who worked at Arion Press.

35punkrocker924
Mar 27, 2021, 3:13 am

>27 Pellias: I don't own Dreamlands (yet!) and I'm also very curious from the photos. The font really is hard for me to come around on. Great for a broadside, where it's more of a piece of art than text, but for reading it kind of turns me off.

And punk is always the shit! A little goofy for a washed up has been like me to keep using the username I first came up with in the 90s, but here we are. If anybody's been to 924, give me a shout :-)

36filox
Mar 27, 2021, 8:14 am

>23 astropi: PBA has two Allen Press books coming up for sale, estimated $300-$500, starting bid $150. Will be interesting to see how much they go for.

37astropi
Mar 27, 2021, 11:58 am

>27 Pellias: You're going to have to get this sooner or later! Otherwise not having this book will give you Eldritch nightmares ;)
I know the cover does look a bit "simple", but honestly I think it's quite elegant. The paper is superb, and so is the typesetting. Pricey? absolutely. Worth it? Absolutely.

>36 filox: Thanks, do you by any chance have a link to the sale?

38MobyRichard
Edited: Mar 27, 2021, 1:16 pm

>36 filox:

Probably not much...I love Allen Press but, with a couple of exceptions, they are hard to sell when you need cash. Can tell you that. Yolla Bolly also very undervalued. Both of these presses are in the category that if you have enough money where you never have to sell, they are great deals. If you're wheeling and dealing to build your collection on a borderline budget, then you really have to think it through cause everyone will tell you they love Allen Press but everyone knows they can get a better price for AP at auction than whatever price you're trying to sell your copy for.

Most overvalued -- Golden Cockerel

Forgotten Gem -- Chiswick Press.

39filox
Mar 27, 2021, 5:59 pm

40Glacierman
Mar 29, 2021, 2:17 pm

Just about anything printed by the early Chiswick Press (they ceased operation in 1962) is worthwhile. They are primarily associated with the Whittingham family as publishers.

41kermaier
Apr 1, 2021, 10:41 pm

>32 Sorion:
Is the Tallone standard state of the Dickinson edition bound in boards or wraps?

42grifgon
Apr 2, 2021, 1:17 am

>41 kermaier: Wrapper with a chemise and slipcase. I believe every Tallone book is done this way.