QUESTIONS FOR THE AVID READER - 2022, PART 2

Here we are on a "new topic" page and it's only been a month...yipes...

QUESTION 5: THE MAGIC IS GONE: Abandoning Authors.



THE MAGIC IS GONE
You came in my life in such a way
Baby, now you go and go away
Coming across you, oh so strong
Is magic gone?… FKJ (artist)

———————————-
We’ve all done it… let go of an author…(or two or three…). We just stopped reading them.

OK, some of the authors we no longer read have left this mortal world…and some may no longer be writing, but…what about the others? Why the break-up?

Perhaps…
…the author is getting older, literally, and their work is not aging well with them?
…they said or did something that upset you?
…they’re just not as good as they used to be…they’ve lost the magic.

Or… maybe it’s not them at all…it’s you!
…Have you outgrown their themes or style?
…Perhaps you can’t forgive them for that one substandard book?
…Are you just plain bored with the author or the stories they tell?

Tell us about some of the authors you used to read regularly, and who have lost favor with you—- enough so that you don’t read them any longer.

I kinda broke up with George Eliot. No hard feelings, but her style got too cerebral and verbose to keep me anchored. I'm not sure that this doesn't say more about me and my dwindling attention span.

I've broken up with genres. I quit reading chick lit after Where'd You Go Bernadette. Just felt the genre had lost its charm and was too predictable or manufactured.

I have stopped re-reading two Jane Austens every year, and no longer re-read The Once and Future King. They just stopped telling me new things, but I might go back.

Q4: FIVE BOOKS
Late to the party again, at least partially because it was hard to pick five (so I didn’t, haha). These were just the ones that popped into my head first, though there are a lot more I could have chosen.

1. Harriet the Spy by Louise Fitzhugh—I related so much to this book as a kid: a bit of an outsider, creative, snarky, but with a lot of inchoate desire for community. I began keeping a journal after reading this, and have kept it up on and off my whole life.

2. Cheating here, because this is a trifecta of the books that turned me from a regular consumer-of-books reader to a critical one when I was in my mid-teens: The World According to Garp by John Irving, Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow, and Chilly Scenes of Winter by Ann Beattie. Each of those was a revelation to me of what a novelist could do with plot and characters (Irving), historical reframing (Doctorow), and atmospheric dialogue (Beattie). Those three, probably read within the same year, opened my eyes to what fiction writing—and reading for more than just the story—was about.

3. Another for Doctorow: World’s Fair. This one because it’s a pretty close reflection of my mother’s family’s world when she was growing up—same Bronx neighborhood, same time period, similar family stories, and I’ve seen a marvelous home movie of her and her cousins at the 1939 World’s Fair that has stayed with me for decades. I really need to find out who has the CD version of that super 8 so I can get a copy, because it was amazing—she was 10 in it.

4. Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral History of Punk by Legs McNeil and Gillian McCain. I was a punk rock kid—and, minus the fashion and questionable lifestyle choices, consider myself a punk rock middle aged lady now. But 1979-1985 or so were some very happy years for me, full of great music and bad behavior and crazy friends and edgy art and a lot of nightlife. I wouldn’t want to relive that time even if I could, but I’m very happy I have it under my belt.

5. Pack of Two: The Intricate Bond Between People and Dogs by Caroline Knapp. I’m a cat person—I have four—but also a dog person with no dog since we lost our dear Dorrie at the beginning of 2020. I read this in 2004 when I had just broken up with a longtime boyfriend and kept our dog, and it was one of those times when a book just hits all the right notes—I totally internalized the idea of the pack of two, me and the dog taking care of each other, and it made me a much better dog owner for him and my last dog as well.

And though I'll have to think a bit about Q5 BREAKUPS, I can definitely say John Irving is one. I read another couple of his after Garp and found that as he went his big stories got more bloated, and his characters less interesting, and I just decided I could live without him. There may be others—I'll check back in once I've considered the question—but he's the most glaring example.

>3 lisapeet: Doctorow is almost always a delight. I have been recommending Welcome to Hard Times to all and sundry for the last two years.

Question 5

There are probably lots of these, but I'm having trouble coming up with them. There are lots of authors who are well-regarded who I try a novel or two of and decide they aren't for me (Hemingway, Updike, Naipaul, Conrad spring to mind). But those don't quite fit the question because I never really liked them.

The one that does comes up for me, though, is Umberto Eco. I read The Name of the Rose when I was in my 30s and thought it was so smart and clever and "literary". I read his first 5 novels. But then I started feeling tired of the language complexities at the expense of character building and relationships. They seem too smart for the sake of being smart to appeal to me anymore. I have not read his last two novels and he died in 2016. I'm not sure if I'll ever read the last ones or if I'll go back for a reread of any of the ones I remember enjoying (The Name of the Rose, Baudolino, Foucault's Pendulum).

Q5

Uhm... well, you see...

I have two types of authors that I read - the ones where the author is just a sideline to the book and the ones where I've decided that I like the author. The first ones I would not consider abandoned at any point - I read the book, the author could have been anyone. I may even read a dozen of someone's book and still not consider them one of my authors. The latter category on the other hand...

I don't abandon authors. If I found them enjoyable enough to put them in the second category, I keep giving them chances even if certain books may disappoint me. They may slide down in time and I may not read the book in the year it came out but I plan to get to it. The only exception are some of the multi-genre authors where I'd read anything from them in one of their genres and either don't even look at or be very picky in the others.

Of course I also have the tendency to keep "my authors" in reserve - so I have something to read when I need someone known. That I am working on this year - no point not reading the books I really would enjoy just because I may need an enjoyable book one day. :)

Question 5.

I split with Elizabeth George after book 14 (one book after you-know-what). Just stopped. Decided there were other fish to fry. I don't think I want to read a series forever, you know?

I think I'm about to dump Icelandic crime author author Arnaldur Indridason. I got his first few books via a UK wholesaler while I was still working for the bookstore. I went to Iceland in 2010 and was hoping while there to find a few more installments in translation. I asked at a bookstore in the historic section of Reykjavík but it was no go. Eventually, I did get more, gobbled up the Erlunder series and, while I have tried (more than once) with the author's other later series they are somewhat lackluster, imo. Of course, NOW every other person in Iceland is writing crime novels. Currently I enjoy some of Ragnar Jonasson's books and I read other Icelandic authors.

I read Jonathan Lethem from his 2nd book, which was She Climbed Across the Table, to Fortress pf Solitude. I think the break-up was kind of mutual, he went off to explore other things and subsequently so did I. So many others authors do this after they become successful...sigh.

ETA: Anne Tyler. I walked away from the relationship at the end of the 90s after what? A dozen or so books. I wanted to read others....

>6 AnnieMod: I agree about the multi-genre authors. I dumped Susan Hill's crime series (the protagonist was having a different person crisis in each of the first 3 or 4 books I read) but I have read 6 or more of Hill's other writing and enjoyed them well enough.

After 12 books I think I've broken up with Ian McEwan (although I've still got one on my TBR, so maybe not quite yet). His best work has blown me away by its inventiveness and he'll remain on my favourite author list as a result, but I feel like I've read the best of him now, and the last few books I've read have felt disappointing.

Ditto John Updike. I loved the Rabbit series and one or two others, but I'm weary of reading about people having affairs now and think I'm done now (but again, his good stuff was fantastic).

>9 AlisonY: Had to read Updike and Cheever in high school (early 70s); I did read more Updike. I think the Witches of Eastwick was my favorite.

>2 nohrt4me2: I didn't consider Bernadette to be chick lit, its a genre I dont care for, this one seemed to be the anti chic lit really. And yeah used to read Once and Future King about every year since hs. That changed after reading hawk and learned more about him. Even tho I still love the story and it meant a lot to me, Im kinda done

>3 lisapeet: : The World According to Garp by John Irving, Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow, and Chilly Scenes of Winter

Loved the Irving but stopped reading him Cider House Rules Justs stopped doing anything for me. Still love Doctorow (his book march was incredible) I am not sure I read any of Beattie; more in to Anne Tyler at the time (another one I quit when kept copying the same plot and haracters with a dif story.) An suggestion were to start.?

Another I gave up on was Guy Gavriel Kay. I first read his Sailing to Sarantium, fell in love, and went back to read everything he ever wrote. Last one I loved was Under Heaven After that, he was doing just what tyler did - same world same plot same characters. I was just done.Tho I still miss him

I gave up on Joanne Fluke culinary mystery novels. I just got tired of the unending details and fillers that told me how Hannah made a recipe and then the recipes themselves appeared in the book. I also was tired of the constant waffling between her two boyfriends. I liked her mom and sister though. Hannah just got to be too annoying after awhile.

I gave up on the Flavia DeLuce novels by Alan Bradley when they got too icky for my sensibilities, and also when I learned that the chemistry in them was incorrect.

I guess I give up on the authors when the books become too predictable or when the characters start to annoy me.

>11 cindydavid4: Hmm, over on GoodReads, chick lit is defined as "genre fiction which addresses issues of modern womanhood, often humorously and lightheartedly. Although it sometimes includes romantic elements, chick lit is generally not considered a direct subcategory of the romance novel genre, because the heroine's relationship with her family or friends is often just as important as her romantic relationships."

I have heard that a lot of White fans turned against The Once and Future King after reading H is for Hawk.

I understand that knowing something awful about an author might color someone's views about the book. But, to me, it's sort of like shunning children because you didn't like the parents that created them.

However, I accept that that may be a dated attitude now. Artists all seem to have to pass some sort of moral litmus test.

I've answered this question a few times under many iterations and I know people have agreed with me but no harm in saying it again. My break-up author was Isabel Allende. I still need to read some of her most famous ones (have I actually read The House of the Spirits or did I just make that up?) and I'm not against read those, but I'm no longer reading anything she comes out with in present day as it is the same plot rehashed in just a different (but still very similar) location.

I keep telling myself to give up on Amelie Nothomb as I've now read 21 of her books and they have gotten, not repetitive in story, but repetitive in style, and I wish she would flesh out her ideas instead of continuing this one book a year cycle. But I still like her ideas so I still buy her books, although only once they are in standard paperback as they are definitely not worth the 16 euro price tag when they're freshly new.

>15 nohrt4me2: I didn't turn against it so much as I was put off by the author. I still love the book; usually I can separate the authors behavior and the book, but for some reason I don't have a desire to reread it.

oh and so agree about Allende; read eva luna house of spirits and paula. Tried newer ones and so agree it was just the same plot over and over again.

Q 5

I've "broken up" with a few authors in my time.

I tried to read a Michael Connelly book a few years back and found I couldn't do it. I don't know if it's Connolly's writing that changed or my tastes - probably a combination of both - but I just didn't like it. So I don't read him anymore. (I do still read some police procedurals, though fewer than when I was younger, so it's not a genre thing. It's definitely to do with prose style.)

I haven't read a Jim Butcher in a long time, either. Part of it is that I don't really care for where he took the Dresden Files series in the latest books - I actually prefer the 'wizard PI' stuff from the early books - and partly because certain aspects of his writing had become grating to me. (I recently found out that he made his only Jewish character - who was barely Jewish to begin with - a literal Knight of the Cross, which is gross enough that I've likely dropped him for good.)

And then there's the elephant in the room, or in this case, the thread: J. K. Rowling - and by extension her pseudonym Robert Galbraith (named after conversion therapy proponent and practitioner and unethical human experimenter Robert Galbraith Heath).

I understand, and to a point even agree with, >15 nohrt4me2: 's point about not turning on books because of the behavior of the author. I haven't gotten rid of the HP books that I already have, nor do I suddenly dislike HP.

But Rowling actively, currently uses the money she gets for her work and the platform she has from her popularity as an author to lobby for the limitation and flat-out removal of an entire minority's civil rights. I recognize that my choices have no impact on her at all. Any money or recognition she does or does not get from me is but teaspoons to an ocean. But even so, I will not be complicit in that. So unless she does a complete heel-turn, which I don't see happening, I will never give her my money or recommend her work to anyone ever again.

Yikes! I did not realize that! so all the stuff about Remus, and prejudice against muggles was for nothing! I haven't bought anything by her since Cursed Child, Im sure not going to anymore.

Q5: Long ago I realized that I found Tom Robbins' books to be hollow in spirit, despite having loved his first couple back in early college days. I can't think of any other authors this topic would fit for me, but maybe one or two will come to mind over the next few days.

>20 rocketjk: Yeah, it takes a while. I found I had to really think about it. I don't read every authors' every book, but I will try to read every book for some authors (probably no more than 12 favored living authors at any one time), otherwise I may read a couple books by any other. So, I had to single out the circumstances where something concrete caused me to stop...either something about the book or author, or something with me.

>19 cindydavid4: She wasn't always like this, to be fair. She was radicalized online. If you go far enough back on Twitter and other social media, as some people have, apparently you can track it happening over time. But she did have certain prejudices to begin with, as well. (The goblins also come to mind, on that front).

>20 rocketjk: >21 avaland: That is the problem - when you "break up" with an author, it often means that you don't think about them much anymore, unless it's for fairly dramatic reasons. So they don't jump right to your mind when you read a question like this one. I'm sure there are at least a few authors that I've dropped that I haven't thought of, myself. Especially if going back more than a few years or so.

>1 avaland: Q5

This is going to be a very dull answer... I can't think of any author I've followed and then dropped. But then, there is a very small number of living authors I could say I'm "following"--Magris, Coetzee, Winterson...

What's more notable in my reading life is the abandonment of whole points of view, shall we say. I will never stop regretting that I was imprinted with the misogynistic standards of the so-called "Western canon" and the classics in general. I regret the time and energy I spent on admiring male authors who in return never did better than spat on women more or less openly. The same goes for the racists and white supremacists that so dominate European and in particular British literature -- again, the classics most particularly.

So given that, there are very many authors I would have abandoned if I had had my eyes opened earlier, and many I would have kept reading thirty years ago that I won't pick up now.

>22 Julie_in_the_Library:

I read Harry Potter as a 20-something adult (the craze made me pick up the first book when the first three were out IIRC). Way before Rowling's transphobia made the news, I deplored her misogyny. I thought then and now that it's a huge pity such a relentlessly sexist vision was so massively popular.

I really haven't followed Rowling and her comments about gender. If anyone wants to read her statement on trans people, I found this on her home page: https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-spea...

Now back to our regularly scheduled topic ...

>22 Julie_in_the_Library: She wasn't always like this, to be fair. She was radicalized online. If you go far enough back on Twitter and other social media, as some people have, apparently you can track it happening over time. But she did have certain prejudices to begin with, as well. (The goblins also come to mind, on that front).

another example of an intelligent person turning to hate over the net. I just don't get it. but yeah, there was evidence of it before. sigh.

Q5

I think to break up with an author, I would have had to have really liked them at some point. I'm not one to read a lot of books by any one author, and sometimes I get distracted with new interests, but that doesn't mean I've broken up with an older favourite. I've also given some authors 3 or 4 books and then decided they weren't for me, but I was never dating them anyway. It was more like a bunch of us went out for dinner and they were there. And now we've both gone off to other dinner parties.

That said, there are two I remember breaking up with:

Stephen King - We broke up in the early 1990s, so this is ancient history. I had to ditch him for 2 reasons. 1. The main reason - his earlier works had a self-contained logic. Salem's Lot was vampires. The Firestarter was a girl who had supernatural abilities because her parents had done chemical experiments with the US government. The Stand was a pandemic. And he wrote all these great short stories that were super creepy and clever. But then he started writing these long books where creepy crazy things happened, but then the solution was "there's a monster outside of town causing this" (eg: It) So unnecessary. Just let the crazy creep be its own thing. 2. Also, he got boring. That said, I'd consider reading him again. Kinda like old, old friends meeting up for a drink one night because we've moved on and why not.

Patricia Cornell - Again, a 1990s break up. I loved her first novel, liked her second, was "meh" on #3, and then after #4 I was "just NO"

After the late 1990s, I stopped dating authors.

>27 Nickelini: I didn't think I had an answer to Q5 because I don't really follow authors, but you're right, I also broke up with Stephen King, I don't remember when. Maybe in the 90s? Around Dolores Claiborne. I started reading his books when I was around 12, and read everything up until then. But I came back to read 11/22/63 and I think I've read a couple of others since then.

Q 5

I've remembered another one. I stopped reading Louise Penny's Chief Inspector Armand Gamache after Glass Houses. I didn't stop liking her work - I rated that one 4 stars, in fact - I just didn't feel particularly motivated to pick up the next one when it came out.

I don't consider this the same as what's happened with my reading relationship to Michael Connelly or Jim Butcher. My tastes (and/or her style) haven't changed so that she's no longer a good fit for me. I 'm not put off by any tendencies she has or any directions she's taken the series in, nor do I have any particular aversion to reading her work again at some point. So while I still don't feel particularly motivated to read pick the series back up right now, I'll probably go back to it at some point. It's less a "break up" or the dropping of an author and more a hiatus or break.

I have loved everything Alan Furst has written and WW II isn't even my period, and have recommended his books to others for years. But his newest Under Occupation was so poorly written--as if a not very good writer was attempting to write like Alan Furst--that I am wondering if he is perhaps developing dementia. I'm serious about this. Everything about Under Occupation was like a caricature of Furst's other well plotted, finely developed novels. I am astonished that his publishers let this book go to print. It's simply dreadful.

Any comments from others who know Furst's work?

>1 avaland: Abandoning Authors

Margaret Atwood In Canada there is a book chain called Indigo, and each of their stores is decorated with text saying "The World Needs More Canada" followed by the names of Canadian authors. I flinch every time I see her name up there. Having said this, this only relates to her fiction. I am still fine with her non fiction, and I really like listening to her on the radio.



This was really successful marketing, so much so that President Obama used the line when addressing the Canadian Parliament.

William Boyd is another author whom I seem to have dropped, unless one of his books magically turns up right in front of me. I loved his early books, read through the middle ones thinking everyone has a slump now and then, and now have abandoned him.

I don't usually have trouble with a particular author's individual politics, but despite his coming out against Brexit and being a strong voice for "remain", that has to weighed against him being a signatory to the letter to The Guardian opposing independence.

Other than that, I think the case with most authors I stop reading is that they just kind of fade away from my radar.

>28 ursula: I didn't think I had an answer to Q5 because I don't really follow authors, but you're right, I also broke up with Stephen King, I don't remember when. Maybe in the 90s? Around Dolores Claiborne.

I can't believe he was dating both of us at the same time. Humph! I thought I'd read everything up to Dolores Claiborne too, but when I looked at his list of books, I missed a bunch. I couldn't read that book -- but the movie was good! That was definitely the same time I dropped him

>32 Nickelini: I can't believe he was dating both of us at the same time. Humph!

What a cad!

Yeah, I got curious and looked it up too, so 1991-1992 was the time. I read everything up to Needful Things. I tried reading both Gerald's Game and Dolores Claiborne and couldn't get into them. Then I didn't read anything newly published again until I think The Dark Tower VI: Song of Susannah. I believe the publication of that got me to go back and read the Dark Tower books I'd missed (although I've still not read the last one because it sounded too annoying for words). At some point, I went back and read most of what I'd missed up to that point (2004), but I've only read a few since - Lisey's Story (hated it), 11/22/63, Mr. Mercedes, Finders Keepers (I think? I might have abandoned it).

Ah yeah, Stephen King definitely—I used to read him a lot, but haven't read anything of his since It—though I skipped all the Richard Bachman and fantasy stuff that came before. I got a lot more lukewarm on Barbara Kingsolver as time went by, but never to the point of saying I wouldn't read anything by her again, so I'm not sure if that counts. And I was never a Harry Potter/J.K. Rowling fan, so didn't have to make that call.

Q5 Authors you broke up with

I definitely did the Stephen King breakup, but I've come back to him in recent years as I liked his Mr Mercedes series, and I still want to read 11/22/1963
Someone else mentioned Elizabeth George and I stopped at With No One as Witness. I loved that series, but they got too long and dense.
I also used to read all the Anne Perry mysteries, but I stopped as they started being all the same and the Victorian manners she highlighted drove me nuts. I will pick up the occasional Christmas book she puts out as they are so short, but they remind me why I stopped.
I also stopped reading Oprah picks along time ago, even before the A Million Little Pieces dustup.
I feel like there is another author that I stopped but I guess I've really blocked them from my mind.

Q5 Authors you broke up with

Yeah, Stephen King here, too. I thought The Stand was brilliant, but it was pretty much downhill for me after that.

Ann Rice. Loved the first few in her vampire series, but that got old pretty fast. Then I read the first of her Sleeping Beauty erotic novels. That was probably the final straw.

I have an off again/on again thing with Ian McEwan. Every time I think I'm totally done with him, he goes in another direction and surprises me. I have both loved and detested his various books.

>36 Cariola: I would go back to Ian McEwan if he could restore to me all the hours I wasted on Saturday.

Catherine Coulter is one for me. I used to read every book of hers I came across (I very seldom buy new books - so it was if I found it used or at the library), then kind of dribbled off for a while. I still collected her books, but wasn't reading them. So I decided to start up with her again...and read a book. Ugh. Read another one. Um, what? Started a third and came to the conclusion that I was done with her. I'm pretty sure it was me that changed - I don't think her writing changed at all (see comments above about "every book was the same story") - but I got rid of about 20 books in one go and have had no interest in reading her since.

There are a lot of other authors that I started out reading _everything_ they put out (Mercedes Lackey springs to mind), they started going in some different directions and now I'll read anything in the series(es) I like, and ignore the others. Still like the author, still check out any book they put out, but occasionally it's "oh, that series. Never mind". Justine Davis is another.

>31 SassyLassy: I'm not sure I understand your beef with Atwood's fiction. You do not think her fiction represents Canada well? Or, her fiction is not enough Canadian-focused? Whether that is true or not, she is Canadian, and for some of us she may have been the gateway into further Canada lit (although I started reading her long ago when my focus was women authored-lit, and before my reading became geographically-focused.

>35 raidergirl3: The Elizaabeth George divorce was me :-)

>36 Cariola:, >37 nohrt4me2: Interesting about Ian McEwan. I read five of his beginning with Atonement and ending with On Chesil Beach. Except for that last book, the others were all pre-LT reads.

Q5

Marion Zimmer Bradley is an author I completely abandoned. I did love the Avalon books as a teenager and read them in my twenties, too, but then I stopped and when we moved last year I gave all the books away.
One reason was that I simply didn't enjoy her stories and her style anymore, and the new books, published posthumously, felt like more and more of the same. They just didn't feel right with me anymore.
The other thing is the child abuse going on in her circles and committed by her husband, that she covered or even supported (I read about this a few years ago and don't remember all the details).
Although I think that sometimes it is possible to enjoy a work even if you don't agree with the author or even if the author is a questionable person, I cannot at all in this case. After I learned about what she did I just couldn't read anything by her anymore.

Oh I loved her Avalon books read them many times. Havent read more just because I didn't care for her sci fi. after she died I heard her daughter bring up charges of abuse and molestation. Hadnt heard of "he other thing is the child abuse going on in her circles and committed by her husband, that she covered or even supported (I read about this a few years ago and don't remember all the details). ' If true it would make me not want to read her. Didn't make me turn on her books - they still delighted me in my mind.

This is similar to Bill Cosby. i grew up on his albums (Noah anyone?) and still to this day smile at certain bits. Saw him in concert and on his tv show. Such a shock to think all those accusations were true, and I hate him for what he did. Just cant deny the pleasure I got and still get from his work

Q5
Mine are all series (except one) that I quit mostly because they were same-same or because I didn't like the direction the characters were going. Some of the abandonments are due to my changing reading tastes.

Kathy Reichs
Linda Fairstein
Janet Evanovich
Laurel K Hamilton
David Weber
James Patterson
Karin Slaughter
Matthew Reilly
Nicola Upson
Patricia Cornwell
Alex Kava
P J Tracy
S M Stirling
Diana Gabaldon
Lisa Gardner
John Grisham
Lisa Scottoline

There were more than I'd realised!

>39 avaland: This is terrible, but my beef isn't actually with Atwood's fiction, so much as with Atwood in her fiction. That's about the best way I can describe it, but she seems to be being MARGARET ATWOOD so much, that I find it really off putting. You'd think that would be the case with her non fiction, not the fiction, but as mentioned above, I prefer her when she's writing essays or other forms of non fiction. I will also gladly go to hear her in person, as she is an excellent and humourous speaker.

You're absolutely correct about her role in introducing Canadian fiction to the outside world. She, along with Mordechai Richler, were tireless promoters at the time, and she did and still does an excellent job of it. My grudge against the slogan is purely personal in that I don't need more Margaret Atwood.

Sometimes it seems as if the writers of her era overshadow the writers of the next generation, now in their forties and fifties, who would have had more prominence otherwise perhaps. The generation after them seems to have escaped the cloud.

Atwood herself in her fiction doesn't need to represent Canada. Like any other really good novelist, her stories can be set just about anywhere and have relevance. Like you, I think her novels often reflect social issues, like women's issues, rather than specific national matters, and that these would be her focus.
I have mixed feelings on whether an author's writing has to reflect his or her country. Some authors incorporate it really well, with others it seems immaterial. However, the more I think about that, the more I argue with myself, so I will have to go away and think about it some more!

>10 avaland: Funny enough The Witches of Eastwick is one of the few Updike novels I've not read, so maybe I'm not quite done with him yet.

I have difficulty in thinking of an author I have given up on, or dumped (what a harsh word). I stopped reading marvel comics and DC comics when I found the stories purile. I have an absolute dislike of Marvel superheroes films and anything directed by Spielberg for the same reason.

I probably would not read anything else by Doris Lessing, because I have read nearly all her novels and autobiographies and similarly with H G Wells, but this is not because I have fallen out of love with the authors.

>31 SassyLassy: William Boyd perhaps but then again I have never been in love with his work in the first place. It was just that I had a whole bunch of his novels in the unread section on my shelves and have been reading through them liking them less and less. Fortunately I have got through them all now.

Emma Donoghue I thought Room was excellent. But The Wonder upset me so much that I don’t want to read anything else she writes. I can’t believe there were no negative reviews of it. I know she’s Irish but that was a very anti-Irish book.

>46 dianeham: Oh I Love Donogue, one of the most interesting modern authors Ive read. Could not read Room because of the subject, but I really enjoyed pull of the stars,life mask, slammerkin,astray, and kissing the witch one of my fave retellings of fairy tales. She has others that I may get to eventually

>46 dianeham: "stories purile. . . . and anything directed by Spielberg for the same reason."

Thank you! I've had a Spielberg aversion for a long time, as well, and that's why for me, too.

>47 cindydavid4: I found The Wonder insulting.

>48 rocketjk: you meant to refer to >45 baswood: but I too feel the same way about Spielberg - no substance. I once compared him to a McDonald’s hamburger.

>49 dianeham: I heard enough about it that I had no interst reading it, so I wouldnt doubt you a bit

>49 dianeham: Interested in why you found it insulting or anti-Irish. It's been awhile since I read it. I was unsettled, repelled, and nauseated by certain details. I wasn't really sure what she was trying to show me. The nature of exploitation?

>52 nohrt4me2: the only intelligent person in the book was the English nurse. The Irish were backwards and superstitious. Surely there were some Irish with an ounce of sense.

>43 SassyLassy: Well said. I think I get it now ;-) Your perception of her fiction, and difficulties with it, is interesting.

Whether an author "should" reflect their country is another interesting idea. I would say no; but some will and some will not.

>45 baswood: Perhaps the reason you can not come up with an author who fist the criteria, is that you are avery thoughtful and deliberate in your reading choices?

>53 dianeham: I may be mis-remembering the book, but my sense was that there were locals who were skeptical but played along for various reasons. Certainly, some central players in question turn out to be less gullible than calculating. Maybe I was reading too much into it.

Question 5 : Authors I’ve broken up with

Stephen King: a man badly in need of an editor. I’d enjoy rereading some of earlier work, though.

Stephanie Plumb: After 10 books it became horridly apparent that I was reading the same book over and over. And then over again. Too bad, too, because the first four or five were hilarious.

Robert Parker: I was so disappointed and sad about this one. His Spenser was a refreshing take on the Private Eye genre, I loved his humor, I loved Hawk, I love Boston. But if I had to read even one more sentence about Susan Silverman and her addiction to exercise or her aversion to eating more than a single lettuce leaf or having more than one sip of wine, I would go mad. And Spenser’s slavish devotion to her became very off-putting. Also each succeeding book seems to value violence more, which is just the opposite of how the series started. Even so, I’d gladly reread the first five or six books in the series.

The one that hurt the most was probably Louise Penny. I read The Brutal Telling as an ARC and was completely bowled over by the freshness and the depth of the book. So much so that I went back and started the Three Pines series from the beginning. And I did so each time she brought out a new book. But then. Phrases instead of sentences. I was over it. Also, she seemed to become tired of the village and the characters I’d come to love. Of course that’s her right as an author, but I didn’t want to follow her down those new paths.

I broke up with Elizabeth George because of the increasing violence and her seeming desire to kill off characters just for shock value.

>56 Matke: a man badly in need of an editor.

Oh yeah that fits another in need of at least two, along with a prodding stick. Loved George RR Martines Game of Thrones books, esp the first three which I read in one summer. I fell in love with his world and characters, and while I noticed some filling along the way, didn't bother me. That is until his last two books in the series. OMG He basically broke up the plot in two. There is a place online called Boiled Leather which shows you chapter by chapter what to read to bypassof the filler. And what he did to the tv series, leaving it in a learch by not keeping his promise to write the books for it was just unconsiousable. The last season of the series was horrible, in great part because the writers did not have any more books to cover the rest of the story so they just tried to do it themselves and and a mess of it. Even if he finishes this next book hes been promising for a decade, I will not read it, I won't put more money in his bank

Q5

I've been thinking about this question since it dropped, and I am having real trouble coming up with any authors I have deliberately "broken up" with to the point where I won't read them any more. Now, what does happen on a semi-regular basis is that I will drift away from an author, so I'm no longer paying close, active attention to their new and upcoming releases. And I'm probably no longer buying all their books, but that doesn't mean I won't read them. It just means I'm more likely to borrow the books from the library.

Also, like >6 AnnieMod:, I tend to be more about the story being told than the author doing the telling. Yes, I have authors whose works I make sure to get when they are released, but I am very much a backlist reader, consistently coming to books (even those ones I bought at release) a year or more (usually more), after their original publication. I think that changes my relationship as a reader with both the books and authors I read.

***Next question should drop on Wednesday; it will be another fun recommendation list. The third and last question of the month will come out around the 17th or 18th....

>45 baswood: ok about Spielberg, but Empire of the Sun is a terrific circa 1990 movie (and wonderful novel too)

The closest I come is when I gave it up on my annual Pynchon theme. I liked his earlier works a lot (including a later collection of early stories called Slow Learner). But i got frustrated by how indecipherable The Crying of Lot 49 and Vineland were and how Mason & Dixon is basically 800 pages without a complete sentence.

An author I got turned off of was Sherman Alexie. The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian is really charming book, but it’s a moral high stand that dies once you realize the author was a philanderer.

>58 shadrach_anki: I do that too, forget to keep track of new releases of authors I actually liked; need to remember to catch up with them. I also am a backlist reader; I thin it changes that relationship becaue we are away from the hype,and perhaps have more relistic expectations

Can you break up after a one-night stand? Notably bad dates that I can recall were with Louise Penny or Lee Child (there is an account of my Child date in 2014 among my reviews). I'm sure there are others, but I prefer not to recall.

I've tried over the years to have a relationship with Atwood — major local author, someone I've actually sat next to at a concert (smiled but didn't speak), and all that — but there's just no chemistry between us. I still remember many years later how appalled I was by Survival, her book on CanLit, and how I disliked the almost contemporary Surfacing. Give me Margaret Laurence any day. I've never broken up with her or Alice Munro.

So many of you seemed to enjoy the "list" in January, I thought I'd make it a once-a-month feature. Different lists and different approaches, of course...
-----------------------------

QUESTION 6: NONFICTION & OTHER BOOKS: (RECOMMENDATIONS).

Please provide the name of a book you have read and can recommend for any or all of the book categories and criteria listed below.

1. A book about books or literature:
2. A favorite history of any kind:
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased:
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself.
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof:
6. A book of science or popular science:
7. A book about social or cultural issues:
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic):
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog:
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook:
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature):
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind)

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s

ETA: This set of questions should have been titled: “Nonfiction and Other Books That Are Not Fiction”. My apologies for any confusion.

I didn't feel I had anything sensational to contribute to Q5, but here's a semi-random go at the next one.
I'm going to do this without giving myself (too) much time to think about it, and stick to things I've actually got on my shelves and looked at whilst I was sorting my non-fiction a few weeks ago:

QUESTION 6: NONFICTION & OTHER BOOKS: (RECOMMENDATIONS).

1. A book about books or literature: Music at Midnight: The Life and Poetry of George Herbert by John Drury
2. A favourite history of any kind: The Wooden World: An Anatomy of the Georgian Navy by N A M Rodger
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased: Remake by Christine Brooke-Rose
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself. Bessie Smith by Jackie Kay
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof: The sea of faith by Don Cupitt
6. A book of science or popular science: Notebooks from New Guinea by Vojtech Novotny
7. A book about social or cultural issues: The justice game by Geoffrey Robertson
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic): Meine Preise (My Prizes) by Thomas Bernhard
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: Between the woods and the water by Patrick Leigh Fermor
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook:
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature): Art and illusion by E H Gombrich
12. A favourite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind) Modern English Usage by H W Fowler

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell

Comments:
1 — George Herbert is so engrained in English hymn books that you don't really ever think about him as a poet or a person: Drury, both an Anglican clergyman and a literary scholar, is in a great position to make sense of him. This was one of the best literary biographies I've read in ages.
2 — If you've ever read a Patrick O'Brian or C S Forester, this is gold-dust. Answers dozens of little questions you've always had about why the navy was organised that way, what exactly bo'suns and pursers actually did, and so on.
3 — A lovely, complex memoir in which CBR (partly) disentangles her life from the ways she's used it in her fiction.
4 — Not my usual musical taste, but Jackie Kay is always worth reading, and she makes a great — and concise — case for Bessie Smith and why she matters.
5 — Maybe a bit dated by now, especially since it was originally a TV tie-in, but this was an eye-opener at the time.
6 — What do entomologists actually do in the field, and why? And what is it like to do science in New Guinea? Just because you've never asked doesn't mean you don't need to know.
7 — Lovely, witty barrister's-eye-view of how law works and fails to work.
8 — I think Bernhard was in my last list as well, but this is him at his most accessible, a brilliantly caustic take-down of the Austrian literary awards circus. Watch for the one where he provokes the minister of culture to punch him.
9 — The whole trilogy is amazing, but this middle book is PLF at his very best as a travel writer.
11 — Predictable, but I'm no more a visual arts guy than I am a cook. Gombrich is great at making sense of pictures to non-artists.
12 — I'm pretty sure I listed the OED last time. Fowler is rarely actually useful, and even when he's right his advice is 100 years out of date, but he's always entertaining and often provocative.
13 — Too obvious, probably. But I talked about Rebecca West last time.

>64 thorold: Well done! I like the comments, too.

>42 rhian_of_oz: I didn't think of them because it's been so long, over a decade at least on both, but I dropped Laurrell K Hamilton and James Patterson, as well.

Question 6: Nonfiction and Other Books

1. A book about books or literature: The Madwoman in the Attic: The Woman Writer and the Nineteenth-Century Literary Imagination by Sandra M. Gilbert, 1979

2. A favorite history of any kind: Founding Mothers & Fathers: Gendered Power and the Forming of American Society by Mary Beth Norton, 1997

3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased: I Remember: Sketch for an Autobiography by Boris Leonidovich Pasternak, 1959

4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself: Thomas Hardy by Claire Tomalin, 2007

5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof: Many Peoples, Many Faiths: An Introduction to the Religious Life of Humankind by Robert S Ellwood, 1977 (this was a textbook for a class I took a long time ago; while I can recommend it as a good starting point, there are probably newer books on the subject).

6. A book of science or popular science:She Has Her Mother's Laugh: The Powers, Perversions, and Potential of Heredity by Carl Zimmer, 2019 (I still have a third to read, but it's what came to mind.

7. A book about social or cultural issues:Women, Race, & Class Angela Y. Davis, 1983

8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic): Color: A Natural History of the Palette by Victoria Finlay, 2003

9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: Reading the Forested Landscape: A Natural History of New England by Tom Wessels, 2014

10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: Cooking Down East by Marjorie Standish, 1969 (my copy, 1978)

11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature):How to Read Fashion: A Crash Course in Styles, Designers, and Couture by Fiona Ffoulkes, 2013

12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind) Mrs. Byrne's Dictionary of Unusual, Obscure, and Preposterous Words, Josefa Heifetz Byrne, 1976

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s: Night Draws Near: Iraq's People in the Shadow of America's War by Anthony Shadid, 2005
----------------------------------------
Never thought I'd be able to fill all the slots with books I could recommend, but searching my library by a general search and a tags search helped out. I deliberately chose books from different eras, too.

Q 6

1. A book about books or literature: Monster She Wrote: The Women who Pioneered Horror and Speculative Fiction by Lisa Kroger and Melanie R. Anderson
2. A favorite history of any kind: Shadow Network: Media, Money, and the Secret Hub of the Radical Right by Anne Nelson
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased: Come Tell Me How You Live by Agatha Christie
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself:
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof: If All the Seas Were Ink by Ilana Kurshan
6. A book of science or popular science: The 99% Invisible City by Roman Mars
7. A book about social or cultural issues: Because Internet by Gretchen McCulloch
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic): People Love Dead Jews: Reports from a Haunted Present by Dara Horn
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: How to Understand Israel in 60 Days or Less by Sarah Gidden
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: Easy Tagine
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature):
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind)

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s: The Library Book by Susan Orlean

I haven't done a lot of reading in a lot of these categories, though there's plenty on my TBR for most of them.

Question 6

1. A book about books or literature: Complete to Starting a Used Bookstore: Old Books into Gold by Dale L. Gilbert
This book was very helpful to me when I bought my used bookstore, although I was not "starting" a used bookstore but buying an existing one, and the book was more than a bit outdated, having been published before the advent of online sales.
2. A favorite history of any kind: Black Against Empire: The History and Politics of the Black Panther Party by Joshua Bloom
A very enlightening history about a movement I was old enough to see occurring but way too young to understand fully.
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased: Speak to Me, Dance with Me by Agnes de Mille
A fascinating memoir about de Mille's attempts to establish herself in the English world of modern dance and as a movie choreographer and as a strong woman in the arts.
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself: Madame Curie by Eve Curie
Still riveting after all these years.
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof: Tales of the Hasidim – Early Masters & Tales of the Hasidim – the Later Masters by Martin Buber
Mostly a collection of legends and passed down oral histories.
6. A book of science or popular science: Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex by Mary Roach
A combination of fun and fascinating
7. A book about social or cultural issues: Storming the Wall: Climate Change, Migration and Homeland Security by Todd Miller
A sober, disturbing look at the nexus between global warming and American immigration policy
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic): Canaries in the Mineshaft: Essays on Politics and Media by Renata Adler
An extremely acute look at our culture and politics, with heavy emphasis on the true meaning of Watergate, the calumny of the Starr Report and other topical matters of mid- to late-20th Century America, also including Adler's infamous screed against Pauline Kael.
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: As I Walked Out One Midsummer Morning by Laurie Lee
I read this tale of a young man's walk around Spain just before the onset of the Spanish Civil War (and into the very early days of that conflict) on the advice of a friend just before my wife and I traveled to Spain ourselves.
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: The Food and Wines of Spain by Penelope Casas
And speaking of Spain . . . this is my current first stop when I need to find a fun recipe
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature): Harlem of the West: The San Francisco Fillmore Jazz Era
I'm really sorry I missed this era, but I did get to talk to several fascinating musicians who lived through it.
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind): The History of Jazz by Ted Gioia
I leaned on this book a lot for fact checking in my freelance jazz writing days.
*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s: A Treasury of Great Reporting: "Literature Under Pressure" from the Sixteenth Century to Our Own Time edited by Louis L. Snyder
A fascinating compilation of news articles by great writers.

>68 Julie_in_the_Library: Hey, you did okay!! I had to look up that first book you listed; intrigued by the title, but it seems a bit light for my tastes, and most of the content would have shown up in other books I've read.

>69 rocketjk: Thanks for the extra descriptions, I didn't think of that. Maybe I'll add some to my list.

>69 rocketjk: Oh I love Laurie Lee! read the first three when I was traveling in Europe a perfect companion. Looks like he has other books out there as well...

Q6. That's a hard list...

1. A book about books or literature: This is Not the End of the Book
2. A favorite history of any kind: The Anatomy of a Moment: Thirty-Five Minutes in History and Imagination - I was not sure what to put here - too many good books to pick one so I went with an unusual one - not exactly a history. And yet, it is.
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased: The Book of Emma Reyes - collection of letters should count for that I think
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself: Beethoven Variations: Poems on a Life - same as with the history books, too many good one so why not go with the unusual and pick a biography in poems.
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof: A History of God
6. A book of science or popular science: The Story of Earth: The First 4.5 Billion Years, from Stardust to Living Planet
7. A book about social or cultural issues: Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic): Why Save the Bankers?: And Other Essays on Our Economic and Political Crisis
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: Travels with Herodotus
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: N/A. I own one cookbook and I do not own it because it is a cookbook.
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature): The Nude: A Study in Ideal Form
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind): Practical English Usage (Michael Swan) - although I don't really use it much these days, I suspect that it may remain my favorite reference book.

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s: The Morning They Came For Us: Dispatches from Syria and Palestine. Yep - cheating a bit here but could not decide which one to leave so you are getting 2 in 1. Plus I skipped 1 above so it is still just 13 books

1. A book about books or literature:sixpence house charming story about his stay in Hay on Wye, the city of books

2. A favorite history of any kind: 1913: the year before the storm more of the artists , musicans , writers during this time, rather than the politics. some amazing stories here and some absolutely LOL. (see Alma Mahler affairs: one of her lovers was so upset by her absence that he had a doll of her made, he slept with several years)

3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased:Becoming Dr. Seuss

4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself. biography of mark twain

5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof: Lamb

6. A book of science or popular science:The Immortal life of Hernrietta Lacks

7. A book about social or cultural issues: The Decameron project

8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic):up in the old hotel one of my fav collections essays about NYC

9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: Between the woods and the water by Patrick Leigh Fermor trilogy of his travels in Europe circa 1939 (thorold is a fan as well!)

10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook:not mine but my mom's The Settlement cookbook

11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature):the cello suites Very intriguing look at Bach, his music, and the search for a manuscript os cello suites.Played the music while reading, a lovely pairing.

12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind)101 great illustrators from the golden age 1890-1925

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s baghdad without a map the book that got me hooked on Horowitzes work (most famous for confederates in the attic) He was a journalist in Baghdad during the revolution.

I love these lists, both creating them and reading other's.

1. A book about books or literature: What we see when we read : a phenomenology, with illustrations by Peter Mendelsund
2. A favorite history of any kind: Bloodlands: Europe between Hitler and Stalin by Timothy Snyder
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased:
Between silk and cyanide : a codemaker's war, 1941-1945 by Leo Marks
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself: Mornings on Horseback: The Story of an Extraordinary Family, a Vanished Way of Life and the Unique Child Who Became Theodore Roosevelt by David McCullough
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof: Meet at the Ark at Eight by Ulrich Hub (Very funny pseudo-kids book; the two dad penguins of a little penguin try to explain to him why God is going to flood the world)
6. A book of science or popular science: The Teenage Brain by Frances Jensen (a neuroscientist)
7. A book about social or cultural issues: Quiet : the power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking by Susan Cain
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic): The road by Vasily Grossman
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: The Sound of a Wild Snail Eating by Elisabeth Tova Bailey
10. Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: Please to the Table: The Russian Cookbook by Anya von Bremzen
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature): Van Gogh: The Life by Steven Naifeh, Gregory White Smith
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind): The Sibley guide to birds by David Sibley

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea by Barbara Demick

You guys are quick. This is a hard list. I’m going to go look at my books and see what I can come up with. I’m going to read the lists after I make mine. Cya.

QUESTION 6: NONFICTION & OTHER BOOKS: (RECOMMENDATIONS).

1. A book about books or literature: I never Told Anybody: Teaching Poetry Writing to Old People by Kenneth Koch
2. A favorite history of any kind: Dead Wake: The Last Crossing of the Lusitania by Erik Larson
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased: I Remember by Joe Brainard
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself. A Giacometti Portrait by James Lord
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof: Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel, and the Rise of Monotheism by Jan Assmann
6. A book of science or popular science: Time Reborn: From the Crisis in Physics to the Future of the Universe by Lee Smolin
7. A book about social or cultural issues: Working by Studs Turkel
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic): Conversations with Ian McEwan (Literary Conversations Series)
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: Sacred Trees of Ireland
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: Mediterranean Fresh: A Compendium of One-Plate Salad Meals and Mix-and-Match Dressings
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature): Color Your Own Renoir Paintings (Dover Art Coloring Book)
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind): The Sibley Field Guide to Birds of Eastern North America

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s The Rainbow Comes and Goes: A Mother and Son on Life, Love, and Loss by Anderson Cooper

>69 rocketjk: Oh boy. That might be a bunch of additions to the TBR right there. (that's a good thing, if slightly overwhelming. After all, the longer the TBR, the more likely it is that I'll be able to get my hands on at least one of the books on there without having to wait too long at any given moment.)

I do kind of want to go back now and switch out my religion/spirituality rec from If All the Seas Were Ink, which I already recommended on the last rec question for Nathan Ausubel's A Treasury of Jewish Folklore, which I haven't recommended yet, and which I loved so much when I read it from the library that I went online and bought a copy of my own before I'd even returned it.

>70 avaland: Thanks! And yeah, it is a bit light. I think it works best as an introduction for people who are entirely or almost entirely new to the genre and looking for a way in or some context, rather than for people who have been reading gothic and its outshoots for a while.

>72 AnnieMod: a biography in poems that's a really intriguing premise. I might have to read that just for the format!

>73 cindydavid4: Almost certainly adding some of those to the TBR as well.

QUESTION 6: NONFICTION & OTHER BOOKS: (RECOMMENDATIONS).

Please provide the name of a book you have read and can recommend for any or all of the book categories and criteria listed below.

1. A book about books or literature: Since my degrees are in Language and Literature, there are thousands of books I could list here. I'm going to go way, way back to when I was a senior in high school, and my student teacher recommended Sound and Sense: An Introduction to Poetry by Laurence Perrine. A lot of people think that analysis "ruins the pleasure of reading poetry," but I found it just the opposite. For me, it opened up the brilliance, power, and possibilities of language.
2. A favorite history of any kind: Lots of choices here. I'm going to leave England for a moment and list The Fatal Shore: The Epic of Australia's Founding by Robert Hughes. Some of his research has been been questioned since the book first published in 1988, but it's the one that kicked off my interest in the topic.
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased: The Book of Margery Kempe.
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself. Sir Philip Sidney, Courtier Poet by Katherine Duncan-Jones.
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof: A Discovery of Witchcraft by Reginald Scot.
6. A book of science or popular science: Not something I read, for the most part. I honestly can't think of anything except another biography, that of Simon Lopez, physician to Elizabeth I who was tried for plotting to poison her. He was undoubtedly innocent, but, as a convert from Judaism, he got the blame.
7. A book about social or cultural issues: The Embarrassment of Riches: An Interpretation of Dutch Culture in the Golden Age by Simon Schama. Fascinating books about not only how works of art became status symbols for the rising Dutch middle class but also a study of the materials goods depicted in paintings of the day that were also markers of class.
8. A book of essays (themed pieces on a single topic): Again, there are thousands related to my area of expertise that I could list here. I'm going to go with one that I used over and over again in teaching as well as my own research. The Woman's Part: Feminist Criticism of Shakespeare, edited by Carolyn Lenz
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: Coryat's Crudities by Thomas Coryat. Early Modern Englsih travelog of sorts that spawned the common Italian stereotypes seen so often in drama of the time. including Shakespeare's. (He probably used it as a reference.) Just for fun: Billy Connolly's Tracks Across America.
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: Most tattered: a ring-bound copy of The Better Homes and Gardens Cookbook that I got as a wedding gift in 1970. One favorite that never fails: Madhur Jaffrey's Indian Cooking.
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature): Rembrandt's Eye by Simon Schama
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind): The Meridian Handbook of Classical Mythology by Edward Tripp

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s Say Nothing: A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland by Patrick Radden Keefe.

>77 Julie_in_the_Library: It was one of my favorite poetry books last year -- see my review in the work for some warnings though (the format does impose some restrictions after all) :)

>63 avaland:
QUESTION 6: NONFICTION & OTHER BOOKS: (RECOMMENDATIONS).

Please provide the name of a book you have read and can recommend for any or all of the book categories and criteria listed below.

1. A book about books or literature: Literary Detective: 100 Puzzles in Classic Fiction, John Sutherland - Fun!
2. A favorite history of any kind: Vancouver in the Seventies, Kate Bird
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased: Survival In Auschwitz (aka If This Is A Man, Primo Levi
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself.: LOL don't have one!
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof:: The Story of God: a Biblical Comedy About Love (and Hate), Chris Matheson - Fun!
6. A book of science or popular science: Gut: The Inside Story of Our Body's Most Underrated Organ, Giulia Enders
7. A book about social or cultural issues: Means of Reproduction: Sex, Power, and the Future of the World, Michelle Goldberg
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic):Women and Writing, Virginia Woolf
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: went with Travel here - Travel As A Political Act, Rick Steves
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: Alpine Cooking, Meredith Erickson. Ask me tomorrow and I'll give you a different one
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature): my university tome, Gardiners Art Through the Ages
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind): The Last Word On First Names: the Definitive A-Z Guide to the Best and Worst in Baby Names*, Rosenkrantz

Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s: difficult to identify which of my books were written by a journalist, but Murder in Amsterdam was worth a read

* Must read book if you need to give another human being a name. I also own the same authors' Beyond Jennifer and Jason and Beyond Charles and Diana. Their website is very good and useful, but not as cheeky, fun and blatantly honest as the books: https://nameberry.com/

>78 Cariola: #2 I enjoyed that book also. I had not heard about the controversary.

>80 Nickelini: #12 ha! I didn't think of that answer. For child#1 I combed through a very old, fat and worn book that was in the local library; for #2 she got her name from Doctor Zhivago and #3 ...no book involved.

These themed recommendation questions are a TBR goldmine! I'm especially excited about all of the nonfiction titles I'm finding here, since I've been wanting to read more nonfiction for a while now.

Coming up with the recommendations is fun, too. It's always interesting to look back through past reads, and this provides not just an opportunity, but a focus to guide reminiscences.

>82 Julie_in_the_Library: Glad you are having fun!

>80 Nickelini: Ah yes, I also used Beyond Jennifer and Jason!

QUESTION 6: NONFICTION & OTHER BOOKS: (RECOMMENDATIONS)

1. A book about books or literature: Storming the Reality Studio: A Casebook of Cyberpunk and Postmodern Fiction by Larry McCaffery. A bit dated, but a view into what we were thinking (some of us) about a now rather dated literature, back in the more-innocent 1990s.
2. A favorite history of any kind: Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb by Richard Rhodes. Would probably have cited The Making of the Atomic Bomb except I haven't read that one.
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased:Confessions of a Failed Southern Lady: A Memoir by Florence King. King (1936-2016) writes an often hilarious account of growing up in the American South. Maybe less funny today, when it's much harder the imagine that Jim Crow is over.
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself. James Tiptree, Jr. : the double life of Alice B. Sheldon by Julie Phillips; an excellent book about one of science fiction's best writers. Alice Sheldon published her best work while everyone thought she was a man named James Tipree, Jr.
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof:
6. A book of science or popular science:Space Travel by Willy Ley. Children's book from the 1950s about the voyage of the first spaceship around the solar system, and what it might discover; a kid's introduction to what was not yet called planetary science.
7. A book about social or cultural issues:Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business by Neil Postman. Postman thought watching too much television was antithetical to rational public discourse. No kidding.
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic):The Night Is Large: Collected Essays, 1938-1995 by Martin Gardner. Cheating a bit here since the topic is "Gardner's interests", i.e. pretty much everything intellectual. Sections are "Physical Science," "Social Science," "Pseudoscience," "Mathematics," "The Arts," "Philosophy," and "Religion."
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog:
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook:
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature):Riding on a Blue Note: Jazz and American Pop by Gary Giddins. Essays on music, mainly jazz.
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind)

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s: Anything by David Cay Johnston

1. A book about books or literature: Just read The Madman's Library - fascinating book oddities.
2. A favorite history of any kind: Glass, Stones & Crown - kids' book about the building of a famous cathedral, the physical and political sides of the work.
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased: A New Kind of Country by Dorothy Gilman.
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself: The Master of Sunnybank, about Alfred Terhune.
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof:
6. A book of science or popular science: I have to pick _one_? The Beak of the Finch by Jonathan Weiner.
7. A book about social or cultural issues: Guns, Germs and Steel.
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic): Bully for Brontosaurus by Stephen Jay Gould.
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: The Jason Voyage - a recreation of the Argo sails over Jason and the Argonauts' journey.
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: The Cake Bible by Rose Levy Beranbaum
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature): The Art of Bev Doolittle. Amazing realistic paintings with secret images hiding in them.
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind): Well, this has to be the (Compact) OED. Though I haven't looked at the paper book much recently - I have the Concise OED on my phone.

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s Here Is Your War by Ernie Pyle - fascinating, and made me want to find the rest of his books of the war.

This was tough! I'd already recommended my first thoughts for several of these, in the previous question.

>86 jjmcgaffey: Ouch, ouch, ouch. Putting The Madman's Library, A New Kind of Country, and Here is Your War on the list. I too liked the Mrs. Pollifax books. It sounds as though the first in the series, when Mrs. Pollifax reinvents herself as a spy, is rooted in Gilman's experiences of reinventing herself.

>63 avaland: QUESTION 6: NONFICTION & OTHER BOOKS: (RECOMMENDATIONS)

Please provide the name of a book you have read and can recommend for any or all of the book categories and criteria listed below.

1. A book about books or literature:
The Library at Night by Alberto Manguel
my first thought was The Madwoman in the Attic but avaland suggested it already, so I thought it would be good to add to the recommendation list

2. A favorite history of any kind:
A Concise History of the Russian Revolution by Richard Pipes
a great book for when you just need that reminder

3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased:
Memoirs of a Dutiful Daughter by Simone de Beauvoir

4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself
Zhou Enlai: The Last Perfect Revolutionary by Gao Wenqian
excellent

5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof:
Religion and the Decline of Magic by Keith Thomas
a wonderful look at how cultural ideas changed during the 16th and 17th centuries

6. A book of science or popular science:
Studies of Trees in Winter: A Description of the Deciduous Trees of Northeastern America by Annie Oakes Huntington
over a century old, but it still holds that if you can't identify a particular deciduous tree in winter, you need to learn more about trees

7. A book about social or cultural issues:
The Food of a Younger Land: A Portrait of American Food - Before the National Highway System, before Chain Restaurants, and before frozen food, when the nation's Food was Seasonal by Mark Kurlansky
what are we doing to ourselves, can also read Fast Food Nation

8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic):
Sisterhood is Powerful edited by Robin Morgan
still an important book

9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog:
Sightlines: A Conversation with the Natural World by Kathleen Jamie
covers all three

10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: everyday favourite
The Vegetarian Epicure Book Two by Anna Thomas
this changes completely during holidays

11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature):
David Blackwood: Master Printmaker by William Gough
a man who has never forgotten where he is from

12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind)
The Dictionary of Imaginary Places by Alberto Manguel

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s
anything whatsoever by Joan Didion

>86 jjmcgaffey: I considered Here is Your War for question 13. Great choice. Have you ever read Michael Herr's Vietnam chronicle, Dispatches?

>88 SassyLassy: Re: the Kurlansky, I'm lucky enough to live in a small rural community in Northern California where many of us do, indeed, eat seasonally. Lots of people have serious gardens (including my wife, lucky for me) and we eat out of them as the season dictates. So we mostly only eat tomatoes when tomatoes are fresh, etc. (although there is also canning). We're not that far from supermarkets, so we can really join the rest of our compatriots in eating whatever we want whenever we want it, but the beauty of the fresh produce is so striking that many of us rely on fresh local produce (we also have two or three small local produce farmers to buy from, also seasonally) as much as possible. This is a change from how I've eaten most of my life (we moved here in 2008), when it never occurred to me to wonder whether any particular kind of fruit or vegetable was in season when I decided I wanted some. The only Kurlansky I've read is his history of the Basques, which I thought was quite good until he got to the modern day, at which point he wrote pretty much solely about the Basque separatist movement, as if that was all that was going on in the entire culture.

>86 jjmcgaffey: >89 rocketjk: My father spent all of WWII in the European front. His division was field artillery. Ernie Pyle spent time with them during the war. I got one of his books for my father but he was disappointed. As we was disappointed with every war movie. Nothing ever described the war as he knew it.

>89 rocketjk: No, I'll take a look at it.

>90 dianeham: There's a thing where no doctor can watch a medical drama, no soldier can watch (or read) a war story, etc - when you actually know the subject, fiction usually gets it wrong (sometimes slightly, sometimes wildly). I'm slightly surprised that he didn't recognize what Ernie was writing - but I've never been in the military, let alone fighting in WWII, so I don't have a basis for consideration.

>89 rocketjk: I haven't read the Kurlansky yet, though I'd requested it at the library a couple weeks ago. I garden, but I'm in a condo apartment - I can grow some very nice trimmings, but I couldn't possibly live off my garden. It's wonderful in tomato season, and fresh carrots are a revelation. I do shop at the farmers market as well as supermarkets (and Trader Joe's, which really doesn't fit "super"market...).

>88 SassyLassy: Zhou Enlai makes quite a subject for biography. 26 years ago I read a biography of him by Han Suyin and still think about it. (The title is Eldest Son: Zhou Enlai and the Making of Modern China, 1898-1976)

QUESTION 6: NONFICTION & OTHER BOOKS: (RECOMMENDATIONS).

Please provide the name of a book you have read and can recommend for any or all of the book categories and criteria listed below.

I'm finding this difficult. Suddenly I'm afraid to recommend anything

1. A book about books or literature:
Beowulf on the Beach by Jack Murnighan - A decent guide I've been loosely following since 2009

2. A favorite history of any kind:
The Greatest Journey: Americans in Paris by David McCullough - one that stuck around

3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased:
A Tale of Love and Darkness by Amos Oz

4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself.
Just Kids by Patti Smith

5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof:
So many directions to go here. Almost all of what I read on religious themes isn't actually about religion, but about the history or even the literary aspects of it. I do remember this obscure title, even though it was not really my mindset when I read it: Waiting for God : The Spiritual Explorations of a Reluctant Atheist by Lawrence Bush.

6. A book of science or popular science:
The Clockwork Universe by Edward Dolnick

7. A book about social or cultural issues:
The New Jim Crowe by Michelle Alexander

8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic):
The Fire Next Time by James Baldwin

9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog:
The Everglades: River of Grass by Marjory Stoneman Douglas

10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook:
I'll go with "on food": The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan

11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature):
Another soft category. Brassaï : The Eye of Paris by Anne Wilkes Tucker is a wonderful photography book I have paged through...but not actually read.

12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind)

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s
Miami by Joan Didion

>89 rocketjk: I too have Dispatches on a shelf somewhere. I take it you recommend it, Jerry?

>93 dchaikin: A Tale of Love and Darkness just missed the cut for my list because I limited myself to books actually on the shelf. Good pick!

The Greatest Journey: Americans in Paris by David McCullough I love his books, this one stands out. Learned about our country's artists from that time, their work, and oh yeah The Commune which I never heard of before. fascinating stuff

QUESTION 6: NONFICTION & OTHER BOOKS: (RECOMMENDATIONS).

Please provide the name of a book you have read and can recommend for any or all of the book categories and criteria listed below.

1. A book about books or literature: The Polysyllabic Spree
2. A favorite history of any kind: Land of the Burnt Thigh
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased: *
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself: *
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof: Mythology
6. A book of science or popular science: The Sixth Extinction
7. A book about social or cultural issues: Evicted
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic): A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: The Invention of Nature
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: Moosewood Restaurant Daily Special
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature): Paintings in Proust
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind): 500 Great Books by Women

Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s: Killers of the Flower Moon

*So, I completed these recommendations using the Dewey classification assigned in my collections. But it's _weird_. There were only four biographies/autobiographies, none of which I particularly liked and it doesn't include books such as Becoming or How We Fight for Our Lives or The Year of Magical Thinking or....

>97 ELiz_M: i had to take a peak at Dewey. Becoming is 973, which is United States history. The Year of Magical Thinking is 813 - which is fiction(!?) - more specifically, American fiction in English.

>94 labfs39: I would certainly recommend Dispatches. If you're a fan of Apocalypse Now you will recognize some of the passages. Even if you aren't Herr's writing is excellent.

>97 ELiz_M: >98 dchaikin: That's what's wrong with Dewey in a nutshell!

>97 ELiz_M: So, I completed these recommendations using the Dewey classification assigned in my collections. But it's _weird_. There were only four biographies/autobiographies . . .

At the risk of telling you what you already know:

There is a DDC class for biography: 920, that is useful for browsing biographies, but for many years librarians have overwhelmingly preferred to classify biographies with respect to their subject's field. So physicists go into physics, explorers into geography and politicians somewhere appropriate in history. But to the right of the decimal, often as the last two digits, you will generally find a 92 indicating 'biography'.

I also am no fan of Dewey, which I believe has become wildly obsolete.

>94 labfs39: Yes, I highly recommend Dispatches. I think it's considered a groundbreaking work in Vietnam war reporting.

>99 SassyLassy: I believe you're thinking of the movie Full Metal Jacket, which was based in part on Herr's writing in Dispatches. Apocalypse Now was based on Heart of Darkness.

eta: Whoops! Looks like I was wrong about Dispatches/Apocalypse. Full Metal Jacket is based in part on Dispatches, but the wikipedia entry for Apocalypse Now tells us, "Author Michael Herr received a call from Zoetrope in January 1978 and was asked to work on the film's narration based on his well-received book about Vietnam, Dispatches. He said that the narration already written was "totally useless" and spent a year creating a new narration, with Coppola giving him very definite guidelines." I probably oughta check up on my facts before posting, yeah?

>101 librorumamans: In my library 920 was collective biographies. And biographies were arranged alphabetically by subject under B.

>102 rocketjk: Heart of Darkness was indeed a major, if not the major influence for Apocalypse Now, but Dispatches is in there too. I think it is in a lot of Vietnam War films, and Full Metal Jacket certainly made use of it.

It's difficult to choose between these two films but based on the number of times I've viewed each, a completely subjective rating I know, I would have to go with Apocalypse Now and the Redux version.

>97 ELiz_M: I almost chose The Enchanted Broccoli Forest for my cookbook recommendation. I used to love the Moosewood cookbooks.

>99 SassyLassy: >102 rocketjk: Thanks, I will dig out my copy of Dispatches. I know I saw it recently in a box...

>104 SassyLassy: "It's difficult to choose between these two films but based on the number of times I've viewed each, a completely subjective rating I know, I would have to go with Apocalypse Now and the Redux version."

I was interested to read an article back, I think, in the late 80s or maybe a little later, in which the writer had interviewed a series of Viet Nam War combat veterans about the various movies about the conflict. The consensus seemed to be that, while Apocalypse Now was the least realistic, in terms of actual events (the surfing scenes, etc.), it was by far the best at accurately conjuring up for them the surreal feeling of the entire experience.

Please provide the name of a book you have read and can recommend for any or all of the book categories and criteria listed below.

1. A book about books or literature: The Polysyllabic Spree by Nick Hornby
2. A favorite history of any kind: The Ghost Map by Steven Johnson
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased: Based on a True Story - Norm Macdonald (lol, not really a memoir, but it was the closest I could find that fit the category)
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself. A Force of Nature: The Frontier Genius of Ernest Rutherford - Richard Reeves
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof: Searching for Stars on an Island in Maine - Alan Lightman
6. A book of science or popular science: I Contain Multitudes by Ed Yong
7. A book about social or cultural issues: Lab Girl - Hope Jahren
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic): I Am I Am I Am by Maggie O’Farrell
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teaching of Plants - Robin Wall Kimmerer
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: Best of the Best of Bridge
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature): Storyteller: Tales of Life and Music by Dave Grohl
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind)

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s
Dispatches from the Edge: A Memoir of War, Disasters, and Survival - Anderson Cooper

love I am I am I am but then I love most of her writing.

>108 cindydavid4: I’ve also read Hamnet and The Vanishing Act of Esme Lennox. What else of O’Farrell’s have you read?

>63 avaland:

QUESTION 6: NONFICTION & OTHER BOOKS: (RECOMMENDATIONS).

Please provide the name of a book you have read and can recommend for any or all of the book categories and criteria listed below.

1. A book about books or literature: The Burning Library, Edmund White
2. A favorite history of any kind: Roots of Revolution: A History of the Populist and Socialist Movements in Nineteenth Century Russia, Franco Venturi
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased: Memoirs from the women's prison, Nawal al-Saadawi
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself. The Motion of Light in Water: Sex and Science Fiction Writing in the East Village, Samuel Delany
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof: Dialogue Between a Priest and a Dying Atheist, Marquis de Sade
6. A book of science or popular science: Testosterone rex : unmaking the myths of our gendered minds, Cordelia Fine
7. A book about social or cultural issues: Reflections on the way to the gallows: voices of Japanese rebel women
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic): Between Meals : An Appetite for Paris, A. J. Liebling
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: Six Records of a Floating Life, Shen Fu
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: Dalmatinska kuhinja
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature): The book cover in the Weimar Republic, Jürgen Holstein
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind) Molecular Cloning: A Laboratory Manual

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s Berlin! Berlin!: Dispatches from the Weimar Republic, Kurt Tucholsky

>109 raidergirl3: after you'd gone ,the distance between us , this must be the place there are others Ive read but didn't like as much. Had some timing problems with Vanishing that kinda put me off the book but still thought the ending was just perfect

>110 LolaWalser: Noting the Nawal al-Saadawi memoir and Reflections on the way to the gallows.

QUESTION 6: NONFICTION & OTHER BOOKS: (RECOMMENDATIONS).

Please provide the name of a book you have read and can recommend for any or all of the book categories and criteria listed below.

1. A book about books or literature: A Gentle Madness by Nicholas Basbanes
2. A favorite history of any kind: Death by Petticoat by Mary Miley Theobald
3. A memoir/autobiography by someone who is now deceased: Journal of a Solitude by May Sarton
4. A biography about someone who is the opposite sex from yourself: The Black Mozart by Walter E. Smith
5. A book related to religion, spirituality, OR the lack thereof: The Genesee Diary by Henri Nouwen
6. A book of science or popular science: Lives of the Scientists by Kathleen Krull
7. A book about social or cultural issues: Amish Women Lives and Stories by Louise Stoltzfus
8. A book of essays: (themed pieces on a single topic): The Amish Cook’s Anniversary Book by Lovina Eicher
9. A work of outdoor literature, nature writing, OR travel memoirs/travelog: Stillmeadow Daybook by Gladys Taber
10.Your favorite cookbook OR your most tattered cookbook: Betty Crocker Cookbook
11. Any title related to the Arts (excluding the subject of literature): Lives of the Artists by Kathleen Krull
12. A favorite reference book (a book you consult for information of some kind): Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association

*Lucky 13 (bonus) Journalism/reportage: book written by a journalist/s:Pieces of My Mind by Andy Rooney

>113 LadyoftheLodge: re a gentle madness, Ive read all of his books and learned so much,and laughed a lot too.

>114 cindydavid4: I have read others he has written, and found them all enjoyable. A Gentle Madness was used as a textbook in my rare book librarianship course.

>112 labfs39:

Thanks. Saadawi probably needs no introduction, but I wish the other one had much more exposure as there is so little on that theme (Japanese Communism and revolutionary Socialism) in the West, to say nothing of the intersection with feminism. I notice there are different subtitles--the period is before and through World War I.

>115 LadyoftheLodge: I would have loved taking that class!

QUESTION 7:
BOOKS & READING IN THE TIME OF COVID:

It’s been a long two years….
Thinking back over these last two years, how has your reading been affected by the pandemic? Have your reading habits changed? Are you reading more or less? Has there been a change in what books you have been reading? Were things one way at the beginning of the pandemic, but are now different? Has working from home cut into your reading time? Have you been able to be on Club Read and LT more than usual? Did days of quarantine and isolation mean you read more? Has your library use or book buying been affected?

(These questions are just to get you thinking)

>118 avaland: Hi Lois, I was wondering if you could clarify "extraneous conversation." Would you like this thread to be question and answers only? Or are comments about specific books people list ok? This is my first year participating in Questions for the Avid Reader, so I'm not sure of protocol. Thanks!

So like seasons, i don't base my reading on current events. my book buying hasnt changed, I just bought online from my local bookstore. my habits certainly havent change. I did read more last year but I don't know if that was covid or being retired and have more time

extraneous conversation is what makes these answers so much fun! maybe give us an example?

>117 cindydavid4: I have a specialization in rare books, which turned out not to be very useful, since I am not located in a place that has many career opportunities in that field. The classes were very interesting though. I had the same professor for several of them, and the classes were small so we all fit around one table. He was the rare books curator at the university rare books library, so he brought books and other items to class and we got to handle them (think Shakespeare's First Folio--yikes!!) He never lectured from notes, just from his own experiences, which is how I think classes should be held whenever possible. We also got a backstage tour at the rare books library, and our classes met in the rare books library meeting room. That is one of the best experiences I had and will never forget, even though I was the oldest student in the class.

(Oh no, this might be extraneous conversation. I am sorry for the digression if so. I agree that the comments make this a fun and lively place.)

Question 7
Pandemic Reading Habits

I bought a lot of books online and downloaded a lot of them too. Since we were at home so much, we also read a lot, but we do that anyway. The topics I read did not change much, although I went back and re-read some faves, maybe as comfort reading.

I always work from home, so that did not change things for me at all. I did get on LT a lot, and in a way it was a life saver, since I felt as if I was with friends, while I could not interact with other people in person.

>121 LadyoftheLodge: I dont think it is. You are not going off on some tangent, you are talking about what I mentioned. so says I.We probably need clarification on this...Sounds like an excellent class!

>119 labfs39: Yeah, sorry about that. I'll remove that. With a bit of study I think it has to do with the "lists" which demands a different kind of answer than the usual type "questions". Some conversations seemed to go two or three degrees from the original book...but it's just the way it is with that kind of question. My apology if anyone felt targeted; I had no specific person in mind. Carry on :-)

QUESTION 7:
BOOKS & READING IN THE TIME OF COVID:

I had been in a reading funk already when the pandemic hit. Then I got covid early on (third week of March 2020) and was ill for three months. During that time I didn't read at all. Then I developed long covid heart problems, and the medication I had to take slowed me down, so the first year of the pandemic was a reading wash. I rejoined LT last January, and thanks to the good folks of Club Read, found my reading mojo. I was inspired to not only begin reading again, but also read books of the sort which I used to read and enjoy before the dry spell. I'm very thankful to the friends who keep LT a nurturing place for me.

>124 avaland: You know - we can split the lists from the regular questions next time you need to continue this thread. That way things may feel more organized (and people can participate where they want without getting boggled into all of them). Just thinking aloud :)

>118 avaland:
Q7: Not really changed - or not much anyway. I expected to have more time to read - working from home and all that but then I had a commute of 5 minutes (on foot, half of it waiting for elevators). But it stopped my business travels (which were really good for reading) and the overall numbers seem to have remained the same.

My reading got a bit more planned (as in less surprising books, not as in really planned) - the library kept open only a drive-through so I had to order the books I wanted - and could not just find something on the new shelves - which had been my major source of distractions (I mean... books I did not see coming) before this. But then I started to use the ebooks part of it a bit more and started discovering new books when THEY added them so... that kinda balanced the thing late in 2020 and into 2021.

I did go on a buying spree a few times though - a few of them out of boredom, a few attempting to help/support a small publisher or bookseller and a few times simply because the world was crazy and that calms me down. I have a tendency to do that in the best of days... and the last 2 years were anything but.

The only big change for me is that I used to buy a lot of books at yard sales and the library book sale and the like, which haven't happened for the last two years. You'd think that would allow me to reduce the huge numbers of unread books in my house...not so much, though. My already-existing trajectory towards ebooks accelerated, and now I'm reading 90+% that way - when I read on paper, it feels very slow and awkward. I've started a book on paper, read for several days, switched to my phone and finished it (more than half) within a day - twice in 2021, that I can recall.

What I'm reading hasn't changed particularly. How fast/much I'm reading hasn't changed much either (I've had minor slumps, but nothing that lasted very long). The subjects and styles I enjoyed before are still enjoyable now, and the ones I disliked I continue to dislike. No, I think the only real change has been where I'm getting my books - many more from the library, lots of different libraries because ebooks make that easy.

Q 7 - Reading in the Time of Covid

I'm not sure if my increase in reading is directly related to COVID or not, as it didn't pick up until October 2020. But COVID did have some influence, as several of my major projects faded away and I had more time. I also started buying more books 5 months into the pandemic, and it really hasn't stopped. Day to day I'm not spending much money, so I might as well buy books.

QUESTION 7:
BOOKS & READING IN THE TIME OF COVID

Covid tanked my reading, kind of. I read 65 books in 2019, which plunged to 30 in 2020.

2021 bounced back to 63 books.

Now, I can't entirely blame all of that on Covid because 2020 would have probably been a tough year for reading anyway since we were looking at doing an international move. But my reading came to pretty much a screeching halt at the end of March, when it became apparent that our planned departure in May was not going to happen and what was going to happen was completely up in the air. It also became apparent that our dog had dementia and we had to put her down - the first 2/3 of 2020 was awful by any standard.

I was completely missing from LT from apparently March 2018 until March 2021, so whatever I was doing with my time, it wasn't that!

Q7: Time of Covid

A bit of a muddy picture for me: there are some obvious things like using the library much less — not at all, really, apart form a few months in the second half of last year — and not visiting physical bookshops much, but otherwise it’s not so clear what came from Covid changes and what was just random fluctuation in my habits. I read a lot more books than usual in 2020, but 2021 was a pretty normal quantity, if anything slightly down on a normal year.

I think perhaps what was going on was that most of the things I usually do with my time (I’m retired, so work isn’t one of them) were stopped or severely curtailed by the pandemic, so I initially compensated by giving more time to reading. In the meantime, I’ve found a few new activities and worked out how to resume some of the old ones in new forms, and shifted back to a more normal reading pattern. I hope that doesn’t mean that if/when we get “back to normal” completely, I’ll end up with less reading time than before.

Q7 : Books and Reading in the Time of Covid.

I find it somewhat difficult to separate the 'what' or 'how much' that can be attributed to Covid, and what might have happened anyway but there has been a change in my reading. That first year we had our then 4/5 year old grandson here most weekdays through the spring and summer (his parents took him out of daycare) and in the fall of 2020 he did kindergarten online from our guest room. Michael oversaw that while I was lunch lady, disciplinarian and everything else. Not what we thought retirement was going to be.

In the first year I read a lot more poetry, and this second year I have read much more collections of short stories. I have not been at all attracted to door-stopper novels. Non-ficton seems unscathed (I usually have one book going that is NF).

I think I have read more US authors than usual (likely because of the poetry and short stories)

I have not read any dystopias! (have I been cured of that fatal attraction?)

Books and reading are many things to me: from exploration and learning to basic comfort, a way of shutting the world out; and I love the feel of a book in my hand, the smell of the paper, the retreat to elsewhere... etc and this all became more important. Yes, I have bought more books, new and used, during the Covid era....(gawd, I've pre-ordered ahead into August on the Book Depository site! And then there are the ex-bookseller habits; I like to shop the publisher catalogs, so there is a long US wishlist).

And LT & CR has been a wonderful retreat, as always (readers are the best people to hang with). I thank you all for being here and sharing your reading and other experiences with me.

Working from home because of Covid has definitely hit my reading windows. I used to read to and from work on the bus, but now that commuting time has been replaced with extra working time, which means I only get a short slot before bed by the time I've done my family stuff.

Quarantine also changed where I source my books from which hurts my pocket more. I used to have a routine of buying once or twice a month from the used book shop near my office (books and charity - win/win), supplemented with library books, but Amazon's got a lot of my book cash since the pandemic started. I've started visiting the library again more in the past few months, and it feels important to do that as they're always at risk with ever shrinking funding.

QUESTION 7:
BOOKS & READING IN THE TIME OF COVID:

A quick scan of the 26 books I've reviewed over the pandemic shows I've tended to the grim. Eight dystopias, plus four when human extinction happens, four more centering on worldwide plagues. The ones I haven't yet reviewed would be similar. Many fewer visits to bookstores of course. Formerly I would buy at least one or two books at Readercon, but the convention was canceled in 2020 and online-only in 2021. I'm reading a few more books I've had for a long time.

>132 avaland: And LT & CR has been a wonderful retreat, as always (readers are the best people to hang with). I thank you all for being here and sharing your reading and other experiences with me.

this

>133 AlisonY: use bookfinder.com to get your books much more cheaply plus it supports indie sellers

Q7: BOOKS & READING IN THE TIME OF COVID

Like >133 AlisonY:, I think I probably read a bit less because my daily two-plus hours of commute time are gone. Also, without the delineator of that commute, my work time bleeds into evening hours—I can throw up all the psychic boundaries I want, but I have a demanding job and sometimes that's just how it goes—so that tends to cut down my evening reading time as well. (On the other hand, I'm a better all-around person for not spending 10-15 hours a week on the subway.)

I don't pick up as many physical books at work, obviously, seeing as how I haven't been in the office for almost two years. That's both a shame, because I loved the access, and better for my shelves. I've been checking out library ebooks a lot during the pandemic, and covertly clicking on a lot of $1.99 and $2.99 ebook deals—conflicted because I hate buying books from Amazon, but have trouble passing those deals by. When I buy print books I use Bookshop.org, which I'm more than happy to patronize.

As far as reading subjects, those haven't changed a lot. I did join up with a cool book group that reads a lot of mid-century women authors (current name: the Iris Murdoch Fight Club), so that's nudged my reading in that direction periodically. Otherwise, it's my usual eclectic mix of old and new and forthcoming. I have subscribed to a lot of newsletters by writers and other culturally consumable types, which probably occupies some of my book reading time—maybe newsletters could be a subject for a future Avid Reader question?—but I think of those along the same lines as my periodical reading, and feel like they're a perfectly valuable way to spend my eyetracks.

Q7

This is not easy to answer because my reading has changed a lot over the years, even before Covid. But what I can say this is this:

March 2020 to December 2020:
I did not read a lot, only a few books during that time. One reason was Covid because work was very stressful (Teaching online for the first time because Germany was not equipped at all for that, then gradually back to teaching at school) and because, especially during the first months, I couldn't concentrate. I followed the news a lot etc. In October we got married, so during that time I probably wouldn't have read anyway because of all the preparations.

January to May 2021:
I joined the Category Challenge and read more than I had in many years before. The challenges were so motivating! Work was very stressful as well because I had to cope with some classes being taught online, some at school and some both (groups were split and took turns each week or even from day to day). Everything was chaotic, but LT and my books were a refuge.

May 2021 - Dec 2021:
This time was quite hellish because in the end of May my mom fell in her apartment and nearly passed away. I live in another part of Germany, so from then on I had to struggle between work, going between the two places, and covid restrictions at the hospital. In July, my hometown was hit by the European floods and partly destroyed. So these were the two reasons why I stopped reading completely for a few months and only finished seven books until the end of the year. Covid may have played a part, but it was not the main reason.

In Dezember 2021 I joined the Category Challenge again as well as Club Read, and since then things are looking up and I am reading a lot. Not as much as many other members of the two groups, but considering my circumstances I think it's satisfying.

Other factors apart from the amount of reading:

- In the beginning of 2020 I bought a lot of nonfiction about topics such as climate change, racism, politics etc. - I have not read them so far because I often feel emotionally exhausted. I am more ok with difficult topics in fiction, but even there I am not as resilient as I used to be. I mostly look for an escape and thus I read more books that provide that. I definitely want to read more demanding books and books that I can learn from, but I won't force myself in times when I don't have the mental space for them, especially because I have to deal with a lot of difficult topics at work and it can be emotionally draining (I teach in the poorest suburb of one of the poorest cities in Germany and there are students from many walks of life, and many who have experienced displacement etc. Covid has made many things worse).
- My work has become much more digital within the past two years and this has benefitted my reading because I am now cherishing time away from the laptop. As much as I love LT or some of the travel websites I follow, I enjoy putting away my laptop/mobile and looking at the pages of a real book made from paper.
- I am often exhausted because I teach in the classroom all day wearing an FFP2 mask, so sometimes I can't read because I am so tired, and probably more so than I was in the past. On the other hand, the pandemic has made me reflect on so many things that I am more intent on using my time for the things I love, so that makes me read more instead of spending my time doing useless things or just scrolling mindlessly etc.

Sorry, my text has become a rather long one! But this question was very interesting and it made me reflect on the past two years. And it was interesting to read how others have experienced this time or how it has affected everyone's reading.

>135 cindydavid4: Agree. LT groups have been my lifeline through the Covid time and house selling and moving and weeding my extensive library.

Q7 - Books & Reading in the Time of Covid

The pandemic had no measurable effect on my reading in terms of raw numbers; I've read an average of 166 books each year since I started keeping proper track of things in 2007 (discrepancy years, in either direction, were all very much pre-pandemic). There also wasn't really a measurable change in the types of books I was reading in terms of length, genre, tone, etc. Even my format breakdowns remained fairly consistent with previous years.

For me the changes were more on the social end of my reading life. My local book group went virtual for months, and our reading selections were all public domain titles. I made a lot of bookish friends on Instagram, and developed a decided fondness for buddy reads. A lot of those buddy reads have been classics. In 2020 I read almost no borrowed books, and while 2021 was better on that front, I was still reading very few borrowed books (the balance in 2022 is much more where I want it to be). And I bought a lot of books, many of which are still unread (I'm working on fixing this).

Question 7 - Covid/reading

I can't say that my reading selection changed much, or at all, due to Covid. We were certainly going out less, so I had more evenings at home to spend reading, I guess, but my overall book totals don't seem to have been affected.

I did join a reading group for the first time in my life, which at first met via zoom, during the pandemic. I've never really cottoned to the idea of book groups, but these were a bunch of fellows I was used to seeing quite a bit of socially but whom I was never getting to see. So the idea of "seeing" them, even if just over zoom, once a month was attractive. Also, having been invited, I couldn't really wrap my mind around the idea of refusing to join, given the greater context. So that's one book a month, other than when it was my turn to choose, that I've been reading that's outside my normal rotation, as it were. Also, these guys seem to have a fondness for doorstop books, so maybe my yearly totals are going down by three or four.

Of course, for quite a long time I was having to stay out of bookstores, which was painful. But the onset of Covid also happened to coincide with the beginning of my reading from my friend Kim's recommended list of books about African American History and racism in America in general, so I mostly substituted those books, which I was going to be reading pandemic or no, with the books I would otherwise have been buying in our local bookstores and thrift shops.

Question 7 - Covid reading

At the start of the pandemic I was still working from home, and commuting one hour each way, so got through loads of audiobooks. They all disappeared when I started working from home. In 2020 I really went into a reading slump, I found the whole business so stressful that I initially didn't really read at all. I was initially classed as vulnerable to COVID, and later as extremely vulnerable (and had to shield) which increased my stress levels. And then when I did start reading again I read much lighter books than would normally be the case and did a lot of rereading. To be honest, I only really came out of that towards the end of 2021. This year I'm trying to be more adventurous and get back to the more demanding stuff.

One positive book related thing: we are part of the ONS (Office for National Statistics) survey on COVID levels, which rewards its participants with vouchers. So I've got book tokens revert month to feed my book purchase habit.

Off topic:
When people post from their phones, I get good Wordle practice doing auto-revert to figure out what they actually intended to say.

>136 cindydavid4: That bookfinder.com link might just be the best thing I've seen all week. :) Thanks Cindy!

I like it better than ABE because its not owned by Amazon. glad I could enable um I mean help your book buying :)

I definitely read less in 2020. I mostly worked from home pre-pandemic so I only lost a little commute reading time. The other impact from a time perspective was I stopped going out (I don't drive so I catch public transport, and hence read, when going out without my partner). But the main reason was 'emotional' - I spent a lot of time watching mindless/amusing videos online as an escape from the daily bad news.

We (Western Australia) haven't really experienced the pandemic (we had a little over 1100 cases in total by the end of 2021 for a population of 2.7M). We had a "long" lockdown of about 6 weeks in 2020, a couple of small (no more than a week) since then, but nothing for a long time. So the impact for me has been nowhere near what a lot of other CRers have experienced.

QUESTION 8: MAYBE, MAYBE NOT

"We've been told all our lives that we can only call ourselves well-read once we've read the Great Books. We tried. We got halfway through Infinite Jest and halfway through the SparkNotes on Finnegans Wake. But a few pages into Bleak House, we realized that not all the Great/classics Books have aged well. Some are racist and some are sexist, but most are just really, really boring. So we—and a group of un-boring writers—give you permission to strike these books from the canon. Here's what you should read instead." ---GQ Magazine, 2018

Whether you agree with all the sentiments in the GQ quote above*, are there any so-called "Great Books,” or Classics that you think readers could pass on? Are there highly esteemed books that you consider "overrated"? And if so, what would you recommend instead?

*The GQ quote above is just 'inspiration' which is why I chose not to post a link. And for those who may not know, GQ is a magazine for men.

In the GQ article, Manuel Gonzalez recommends Le Guin's Earthsea Trilogy over Lord of the Rings. I heartily agree. Neither, however, would I categorize as capitalized Great Books.

So, in the category of over-rated twentieth-century bestsellers, instead of The Great Gatsby, I suggest Le Grand Meaulnes, the former's model and inspiration (and also the likely model for Lost Horizon and The Magus). Don't get me started on the frightful mess that is the first version of Fowles' book.

Q8:

The older I get, the less inclined I am to believe anyone who says there are certain books we "don't need to read". Especially when those are books that influential people have been treating as highly-significant works for a long period of time. We don't necessarily have to agree with the verdict of the people who put those books in the canon in the first place, but we do have a responsibility to ourselves to make our own minds up about them, and we won't understand why people in the recent past thought in certain ways until we know something from our own experience about the books that influenced them.

Obviously we can't read everything, and there are some books that we can't read sensibly without first understanding something about the times they were written in and the people who wrote them. There are also some books that we might feel are best read in adolescence and others that need a certain maturity and experience in the reader. We have to make priorities and postpone things that are less important and relevant to us at any given time, but those are very personal choices, and they aren't going to fit anyone else's idea of either a "traditional canon" or a revisionist modern one. And it's ridiculous to make blanket statements about "old" books being more difficult to read and less relevant than "new" ones. A lot of the time it's the old ones that touch us more directly than any others, the first time we meet them.

The argument that we should skip something because it's "boring" is one that should always make us very, very suspicious. That's the argument a lazy teenager makes for not doing something that takes effort. From a grown-up critic we expect that they will have made the effort to get beyond that first barrier and will give us a more solid reason not to read the book. And anyone who finds Bleak House boring has clearly grown up on the wrong planet.

There is a case for saying that you don't need to be in a great hurry to read the ultra-mainstream classics like Homer, Ovid, Hamlet, Don Quixote, the Bible, Milton, Dante, etc., because you already know all the most important things about them from a million summaries and references in other works. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't read and enjoy them when you do get time.

Contrary to what the GQ bunch seem to be saying (I haven't read the article yet), we should ideally be reading all the old stuff, plus all the great writers the people who compiled the "official" canons overlooked because they weren't dead white males, or hadn't been born yet, or wrote in languages other than English, French, Latin or Greek, or whatever. Obviously we can't do that, life is too short, but we need to try...

... I looked up the GQ article and found that it isn't really about "Great Books" but about US high school reading lists, and many of the books they are telling us not to read are books I haven't read because I didn't go to a US high school in the early 21st century. So most of what I ranted above probably isn't relevant. But casually dismissing Mark Twain and Robert Graves as racists is just silly. Obviously you should read Frederick Douglass as well as Mark Twain, but Mark Twain matters because he was the one who shaped what generations of Americans thought about slavery. And what Robert Graves says about the experience of the First World War is many times more important than his thoughtless comments about his Egyptian students.

Q8 I like Mark’s answer a lot. ( >149 thorold: ). I think it’s interesting the role chance plays in what’s considered a classic and what gets forgotten, lost, never written, and overlooked. There is a random variable there as reading fads seem to have shifted dramatically, firmly putting some books on the canon, and waffling on many others.

So, in a sense, all classics are overrated. They’re just one person’s efforts (maybe heart and soul efforts) done within the context of their time and what they were exposed to, or what was available for them to find. So the pedestal can be self-defeating if it’s misconstrued and the book on it is ultimately just a 1954 or 1805 perspective.

I take my own experience - reading upwards from the Old Testament and Homer through, now Boccaccio, catching really only highest highlights of the preserved scraps leftover. And I find these books more enjoyable than I expect, more fun, but also they reach us in awkward ways - first through reputation and media and waves of cultural interpretations. And second through their own voices talking to their own time for their own priorities. They mean different things today than their original intents.

My other experience, reading backwards - Cormac McCarthy - Toni Morrison - Pynchon - Baldwin - Nabokov - ends up highlighting the older classics and their influence and echoes and dialogues. The influence of my current old classic, Boccaccio’s Decameron, on my semi-random audiobook book, The Love Songs of W.E.B. Du Bois is entertaining, even if that connection is iffy and non-unique. They’re still both creating larger atmosphere and remove through many smaller stories. The methodology echoes and it makes Boccaccio mean a whole lot more than it does on its own. And maybe that’s the best reason to read both the classics - and the forgotten stuff, if available and readable.

All of which basically says I agree with Mark. Read as much as you can and are willing and then you can make the call.

Q7

Covid seriously put a crimp in my book-buying, but not reading. Although, I'm sure that it's part of the reason for the troubles I had in concentrating and just general lack of joy.

Q8

This seems similar to another recent question so apologies for what I think is a repetition of opinion... I think reading is far more complicated than deciphering words off a page and that an education immersed in paper fosters skills that are lost under the onslaught of high tech, including "high tech reading". I think technology and permissiveness toward garbage creates not just ignoramuses but immature, hollow people. I'm coming from a "discussion", if it can be called that, where a bunch of despicable techbros and presumably teenagers thought this moment of war is where they get to "own" feminists. These men, or young men and boys, make my hair rise. They sound nothing like the boys of my own adolescence. They have neither experience nor empathy; they are ignorant, callous, peeved little babies.

In earlier times it wasn't the case that everyone was wonderful because everyone read. Steiner's comment about the cultured ones who brought us Auschwitz always stands. But in no other time was a bookless, empathy-less isolated existence not just possible for but embraced by so many.

I would say we must read difficult books because we must stretch ourselves in order to reach our peaks.

>147 avaland: Q8: One reader's most boring book is another reader's favorite one.

Overrated sometimes mean "I do not understand the book". It sometimes mean "I am not mature enough to understand the book and to understand that I am not mature enough". It sometimes mean "That's too complicated". And sometimes it just means "The timing is just wrong for me". Of course, it sometimes can mean that it is just overrated but... for most of the classics, that is rarely the case in my experience.

I think that everyone should get exposure to the classics - not because there isn't good literature nowadays but because no author exists in isolation and you won't see the subtlety and power in some books if you had not read some of the books your authors read (and the authors of those authors read and so on). Does this mean that you cannot be a reader if you never read any of them? Of course not.

Reading only modern books feels like a cop out to me - not wanting to invest the time in understanding the thinking of a different time, a different culture, a different way of looking at life. If someone make a conscious decision to do so, that's fine. But if someone makes it because they are told that these books are boring and they don't need to read them because they won't get anything out of them, then that's just wrong.

There is a thread over in one of the other groups talking about returning to books you had to read for school but never did (https://www.librarything.com/topic/339676) and I find the two things somewhat related. While I don't think that everyone should be forced to read everything, working through the world classics in one way or another enriches one's life usually. Unless they are looking for problems in the books of course - you cannot expect a 19th century novel to conform to the moral standards of the society of the 2020s. But that's how we learn - and ignoring the past leads to not understanding the present.

One might wonder why the opinion of the writer of that article and a bunch of self-proclaimed (or proclaimed by someone else to be) "un-boring writers" would matter more than the opinions of decades (and sometimes centuries) of readers about what is to be called Great books and why they think they can determine what the canon is supposed to be.

>149 thorold: Pretty much that :)

>149 thorold:, >151 dchaikin:, >152 LolaWalser: & >153 AnnieMod: I can't imagine anything I'd have to say that wouldn't be redundant to the sum of the points made by these four folks. Thanks for those remarks.

I don't like Henry James' novels, but I wouldn't recommend anyone else not read them, or that the people who think they're marvelous/important novels are wrong. In fact, I would agree with them that James' novels are important.

>152 LolaWalser: It sometimes mean "I am not mature enough to understand the book and to understand that I am not mature enough". It sometimes mean "That's too complicated". And sometimes it just means "The timing is just wrong for me". Of course, it sometimes can mean that it is just overrated but... for most of the classics, that is rarely the case in my experience."

yes and that can be said of modern books. Some I persevere with; took me three times to finally fall deep into birds without wings so I often give some books another chance or two. Usually they end up in my trade pile, but I try.

I think reading is far more complicated than deciphering words off a page and that an education immersed in paper fosters skills that are lost under the onslaught of high tech, including "high tech reading".

I agree to a point but its not 'garbage' books, or videos or movies or the net. "They have neither experience nor empathy; they are ignorant, callous, peeved little babies".These kids have been around long before the net. I think I can point to a few reasons why we might be seeing this behavier more now

I remember the likes of Rush Limbaugh screaming lies; his ability to stay so long on the radio and not be taken to task astounded me. I remember a presidential election of a veteran who was injured and received a purple heart. At the convention thousands of faces put bandaids on their cheeks. I remember a State of the Union when a legislatof stood up and said 'you lie'. Ive seen teenagers kill people but let go because thy cried in court. And just the other day, a president tried to hold a news conferenc amidst people screaming out their questions like my kindergarters would. Maybe its 24/7 news maybe it the age of the net or maybe because we have been seeing this for decades. Like you, I am seeing ignorant, callous, peeved little babies. And they aren't just the teens

sorry this is not really about the topic; I just sometimes have to vent. please continue ; so I guess I can add my name to Marks list :)

>155 cindydavid4: Like you, I am seeing ignorant, callous, peeved little babies. And they aren't just the teens

Please come to Ottawa. I've got something to show you!

>156 librorumamans: oh yeah saw that on the news; good example (btw we were in ottawa several years back, esp loved all the museums there! We have fond memories of it and would like to eventually go bakck)

I'm just going to throw this out there:

Great Books are those that contain the best materials on which the human mind can work in order to gain insight, understanding, and wisdom. Each of them, in its own way, raises the recurrent basic questions which men must face. Because these questions never are completely solved, these books are the sources and monuments of a continuing intellectual tradition. -- Mortimer J. Adler

From his short piece, What Makes a Great Book? https://www.memoriapress.com/masters/a-great-book/

Here is one of many book lists of the Great books:

http://www.bopsecrets.org/gateway/book-lists/greatbooks.htm

>158 avaland: I suspect that it’s the worthiness of projects like Adler’s that could be one of the main things discouraging us from reading the great classics. Just imagine growing up with that impenetrable wall of sixty volumes frowning down at you… Much nicer to find a battered old cheap edition of Walter Scott with your great aunt’s annotations in the margin next to a row of Penguin D H Lawrences that fall open at the interesting pages, some “borrowed” school editions of Thomas Hardy, and a TV tie-in paperback set of Palliser novels.

>159 thorold: Amen to that.

>158 avaland: My problem with lists like this is that they are so male and so very white. The first 45 of 60 books do not have a single woman. There have been no classics written by women? No one who speaks a non-Western language has something of enduring value to say? I'm not saying that these books aren't worthy, but if you sat and read these 60 books, you would have a very skewed view of the world regardless of the value of what they do say.

ETA: A rough count gave me 127 men and 4 women.

Q8:

Don't have anything new to add. I agree that most "classics" have something to offer. I do not have the drive to study the oldest ones on my own (i.e. figuring out the matrix of ideas, issues, assumptions of their time in order to understand them better) so my exposure is limited.

I like what Dan says - >151 dchaikin: Read as much as you can and are willing and then you can make the call.

And I'm also with Lisa >161 labfs39: My problem with lists like this is that they are so male and so very white. . . There have been no classics written by women? No one who speaks a non-Western language has something of enduring value to say?

So my 20th & 21st century self continues to read and to think.

Q8 are there any so-called "Great Books,” or Classics that you think readers could pass on? Are there highly esteemed books that you consider "overrated"? And if so, what would you recommend instead?

Based on the original question, I was looking forward to some light hearted dishing of established classics, and maybe a few suggestions. Guess not.

Is someone allowed to just not like An Important Novel by Some Esteemed Writer? Is it always the reader's fault if the classic doesn't work for them? I certainly have known English Lit professors who disliked Jane Austen, while there are probably thousands of others who have made a career examining her work. Are those that think she's overrated deficient in their intellect?

>163 Nickelini: Overrated and “don’t like” are not the same thing though. I don’t like a lot of books but i don’t think most of them are overrated - I can see why they are important and/or why other people may think they are great.

And there is a difference between saying “that book is boring so no one should read it” and sharing an opinion on what one thinks about a book. Just saying.

>164 AnnieMod: Hmmm, I'll have to think about that a bit. Do you find it easier to say an esteemed film is overrated rather than you just don't like it, or is this just for books?

are there any so-called "Great Books,” or Classics that you think readers could pass on? Of the 100s of classics deemed "must-reads," I don't think there are many, or any, that everyone has to read. So, sure, I can suggest classics that I think readers can pass on . . . I'll suggest, for example, Catcher In The Rye. I don't find that a must-read. I think it's overrated and I would advise everyone to skip it, if I'm asked my advice. It's only my advice, anyone who wants to read it, and love it, can go ahead. I'm not banning the book.

I like book conversations where I might say "Nineteen Eighty-Four is one book that everyone needs to read," and then have a friend say, "Ugh, it's so overrated because it lacks credibility, and . . . blah blah blah." I don't think that means someone doesn't understand the Amazing Classic or any other comment on the reader's intelligence, because it's just their opinion.

There isn't enough time for anyone to read all the books. When other readers give their opinion that a book is overrated, it's a tool available to use to narrow down your choices, if you want to use it. Or not.

>165 Nickelini: See - that’s where I think we are looking at it from a different place. I never said that everyone should read all the books on those lists - read what you think is interesting, just the looking into some of those while deciding will give you enough to understand most references into them. However, I find it a bit of a bad taste of someone to tell me that I can just skip a book based on their own experience and without explaining why they think so. Explain why a book is irrelevant - I can make my own decision. Tell me it is? What makes you different from the people you are disagreeing with - aka the makers of those lists?

I find Joyce and Conrad unreadable. Maybe I will give them yet another chance. Maybe not. I can see why they are considered classics and I won’t expect them to drop from the canon any time soon - but I cannot stand their styles so I don’t read them.

A lot of the YA (or what would have been YA if the term existed) novels on these list are in a similar problem as the Rye. They require some life experience for someone now to get their message - but with this maturity comes the realization that they have too many flaws. We have a few of those in the Bulgarian canon as well - but I also was lucky enough to have teachers that realized that. So there is that.

At the end of the day, classics is ones of those categories that no one agrees on (and great is even worse). The older the book, the less likely it is that it is there just because schools push it but for modern books (for some value of modern), it is a self-perpetuating circle sometimes - it is on the list so it is taught/read so it stays on the list.

On the other hand, I understand some of the more literary works published today when I had read the classics they rely on you knowing. Thus me saying exposure to - and not reading. A lot of people in the western world grew up with the illustrated classics and other abridgments of the big works. When you are coming from a different culture, you don’t - not all of them anyway. And by time I got to them, I am a bit too old to go for the kids versions (even if I generally like them when I pick up one).

When I see that question I try to think of the canon I grew up as well - The authors and books are different but it is going through the same reevaluation and questioning. And I also know that as much as I hated some of them, reading the old Bulgarian books and working through the canon made the newer ones more accessible and more enjoyable. Of course - it is also a lot smaller canon. But still…

>166 AnnieMod: "I can see why they are considered classics and I won’t expect them to drop from the canon any time soon - but I cannot stand their styles so I don’t read them."

This is where I stand with Henry James, as mentioned above, and D.H. Lawrence. If I were answering the original question in a world where I thought everyone should agree with my own taste (and what a boring world that would be!) I would say, "Skip Women in Love and instead be sure to read Naked Lunch. But in truth I wouldn't want anyone to skip Women in Love just because I didn't like it. It might become their favorite book!

>158 avaland:

“ Great Books are those that contain the best materials on which the human mind can work in order to gain insight, understanding, and wisdom.” - ug. Buzz kill.

“Each of them, in its own way, raises the recurrent basic questions which men must face. Because these questions never are completely solved, these books are the sources and monuments of a continuing intellectual tradition.” - and, see, here it’s ok.

Calling a book one of the great books can really damage the reading experience. 🙂

>166 AnnieMod: However, I find it a bit of a bad taste of someone to tell me that I can just skip a book based on their own experience and without explaining why they think so.

Oh, I didn't realize the person saying "skip this book" wasn't giving me a reason. Sure, if someone says that to me, I'll shrug my shoulders and do what I want to do. And if they tell me why they think a book is overrated, I'll consider it, and still do what I want to do.

I'm with you on Joyce and Conrad. May try them again, but why would I when there is so many unread books out there. I think Faulkner goes in that group too. But I know others think he's wonderful. I love Virginia Woolf, and many don't. It would be boring if we all liked the same things.

>167 rocketjk: I understand why you say this about Henry James. I've enjoyed many of his books, but most of them were his earlier work. He got more complex and challenging as he aged. Maybe I'll tackle those when I'm retired.

>169 Nickelini: “ And if they tell me why they think a book is overrated, I'll consider it, and still do what I want to do. ”

And that’s exactly the point I was trying to make. :) If your only explanation is “it was boring” and “I only tried the Sparks Notes and could not even finish them” and “I could not finish it”, that’s your opinion. That does not make the book less deserving of being read or allow someone to strike it out from the canon. And if they give me a reason, that reason may ensure that I want to read the book instead - people are different.

Which is partially my issue with the redefining of the canon - where instead of expanding, people go for replacements - based on something in a text or the author’s life (the author has slaves or there are bad words in the text or a group was presented unfavorably) or sometimes just based on sheer numbers (let’s replace 50% with books by others for example). The books being kicked out did not get less deserving just because our ideas changed (often anyway) - so I’ve always thought that adding to and expanding the canon is really the better idea. :)

But then I’d be the first to admit that I read a lot and that changes how I look at things - when you read 10 books per year, a list of 100 classics is a very long list; when you read 100+, it’s not that much. Which has nothing to do with intellect or abilities in a lot of cases - but often with where one finds themselves in life and their priorities. And there is nothing wrong in someone deciding that they won’t read the canon - although I hope their schools education had exposed them to it above. Which does not seem to be the case in a lot of cases - as I had been learning in the last few decades. And that, plus the fact that I grew up with a different canon (yet still a European one - there will be people for whom the western canon will be as foreign as the chinese one is for us ), also changes how I look at the lists of great books. And I have an allergy to people telling me that I should (or worse cannot) read a book because they say so. :)

As Lola said above - we must read difficult books (and I’d add and uncomfortable ones and ones which we disagree with - and learn from them. Or we lose the ability to reason and participate in debates and disagreements with open minds and rationality. Which is where the world had ended up in a way - polarized societies and all that so there is that. Echo chambers are never good - regardless of which side you are on or what you are excluding - especially when literature and culture and society is concerned (science is a bit different)).

I’ll stop grumbling and go read a book :)

>170 AnnieMod: and I’d add and uncomfortable ones and ones which we disagree with

Yes, I think that part is very important.

>165 Nickelini: You remind me of the years I took the girls to summer camp by way of Cornish and each time I passed Salinger's mailbox I growled.

I do have a question about adolescent "required reading" for later in the year.... just keep that in mind;-)

>172 avaland: …and that was how we got the famous renaissance dance tune, Sellinger’s Growle….

QUESTION 7:
BOOKS & READING IN THE TIME OF COVID:

I don't think much has changed for me due to the pandemic, but other things have affected my reading. There were some major changes in my reading habits when I retired in 2015. You would think I'd have more time to read, but I've actually been reading less. This is because I am no longer rereading the books that I taught, and I no longer have a commute on which to enjoy audiobooks. I still listen to them on an occasional long drive, but since COVID I rarely go anywhere that takes much more than half an hour to get there and back. I've tried multitasking, listening to audiobooks while working on the computer, but that really doesn't work for me as I can't get immersed in the story and also stop listening if I'm getting involved in what I'm doing. I also have no patience for some narrators.

I've been spending much more time processing cat adoption applications. I'm sure you all know that pet adoptions skyrocketed in 2020. My usual annual total is about 65 successful adoptions, but that year it was 106. Things are slowing down now, and I'm reading more this year than in the last two.

COVID has also tried my patience and made me less likely to keep reading a book that I'm not enjoying. Life is short, I'm getting older, and there are too many good books out there that I want to read.

Since 2016, when the orange one announced his candidacy for president, I've read quite a few more politically oriented books. Can't blame that on COVID. Also reading a bit more non-fiction, mostly memoirs and biographies. Between politics and COVID, I think I've needed to connect with true stories that give me hope and allow me to see the good in people.

I'm now reading at least 90% on Kindle--something I resisted for a very long time. Aging in general is a major factor. I'm due for cataract surgery in the spring, and the kindle allows me to change the font and increase the font size, which really helps. Arthritis also makes it more difficult for me to hold open paperbacks with my thumbs and to hold large books for an extended period of time. Again, not COVID related. The kindle also tucks neatly into my purse without adding too much weight, so I don't have to stare at the walls or read Highlights in waiting rooms.

>174 Cariola: “ The kindle also tucks neatly into my purse without adding too much weight, so I don't have to stare at the walls or read Highlights in waiting rooms.”

That’s phase 1. In phase 2, you always have a small book alongside it just in case something happens to the kindle. :)

QUESTION 8: MAYBE, MAYBE NOT

"We've been told all our lives that we can only call ourselves well-read once we've read the Great Books. We tried. We got halfway through Infinite Jest and halfway through the SparkNotes on Finnegans Wake. But a few pages into Bleak House, we realized that not all the Great/classics Books have aged well. Some are racist and some are sexist, but most are just really, really boring. So we—and a group of un-boring writers—give you permission to strike these books from the canon. Here's what you should read instead." ---GQ Magazine, 2018

Whether you agree with all the sentiments in the GQ quote above*, are there any so-called "Great Books,” or Classics that you think readers could pass on? Are there highly esteemed books that you consider "overrated"? And if so, what would you recommend instead?

As a retired literature professor, this is a tough one for me. I worked with a number of people whose mission in life was to bury all the dead white male authors once and for all--including Shakespeare. (They removed the Shakespeare requirement for English majors shortly before I retired and put it into a grab bag "choose one" category.) I am all for finding new and exciting works to teach and happily incorporated books by diverse authors whenever possible. But is it really acceptable to remove Hamlet and King Lear from the curriculum and replace them with The Hunger Games, The Hate U Give or Fun Home?

Anyway, my profession makes it impossible to read a book without considering style, structure, character development, and more in addition to plot, setting, and theme. (I imagine a lot of people focus on those last three while reading and only absorb the former components secondarily as they are enjoying a book, and that's just fine with me.) There are classics that I personally don't like, but I can still appreciate what the author was trying to do and his or her skills. Heart of Darkness comes to mind; I had to read it three years in a row in high school and college, and I hated it. I love the use of a shifting narrative frame (although Mary Shelley did it better in Frankenstein) and can appreciate Conrad's development of symbolism and the underlying commentary on both individual and collective human nature. I just never engaged with the style, and that can be said of any other Conrad novel I've had to read. For years, my hidden secret was that I had never completed a Dickens novel (although I've read a couple in the last 10 years). Again, I can appreciate that, serialized, these novels provided hours of family entertainment that people could afford, and they certainly influenced the correction of some of society's evils. Personally, I find Dickens's style windy, and his characters tend to be shallow, one-note stereotypes (some of which, yes, are offensive to modern sensibilities). But would I take him out of the canon? No. His influence on society and on many writers who came after him is far too great to ignore.

I can't possibly narrow this question down to "keep this," "dump that," "add this." When I retired, there was a movement in the department to teach more works that students might pick up on their own. People were teaching courses on comics, graphic novels, pirates, vampires, serial killers, etc. I'm not saying there wasn't merit in some of that, but shouldn't a university education expose students to new things instead of reinforcing what they already know and like? And shouldn't an English major gain some sort of appreciation for the traditions and development of literature? We hear a lot of bemoaning the loss of the importance of history these days, the belief that we can just ignore it or revise it. There's always a danger, I think, in forgetting the past and its lessons; we're seeing the downside of this attitude way too often lately. I'd definitely be in favor of making the canon more inclusive, but I wouldn't want to be the one deciding what isn't worth reading.

>176 Cariola: I don't have anything to add, but I just wanted to say I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this. Thanks for posting all of that.

>177 Nickelini: what Joyce said. Appreciate your post and what you brought to it from your experiences.

>176 Cariola:
Hear, hear.

I would add that there are some books that could be, not eliminated, but reserved more for specialized classes, such as Tristram Shandy or the incredibly long-winded and tedious (personal opinion, ymmv) Clarissa.

Of course there are newer, more modern works that should be studied. No need to throw out that baby along with the bath water, though.

>158 avaland:

If you read his books, it's significant that Adler was much more sure-footed about the worthiness of non-fiction (philosophy and science) than fiction. :)

Without judging particularly whether or where he's right or wrong, I think it's evident that the very notion of high culture (the matrix for the valorisation of Great Books) has lost its cachet. It was first true "in the street", but now we see accredited universities ditching their classics departments.

>176 Cariola: Well said, Deborah.
"...makes it impossible to read a book without considering style, structure, character development, and more in addition to plot, setting, and theme..." Not a professor, but I do have a touch of that myself, not every book, mind you, but fair number of them ;-)

>189 avaland: ah ha!

So, am I the only one whose knee-jerk reaction to Question 8 is that perhaps nobody actually needs to read anything in particular? I think reading widely and diversely from various times and viewpoints is useful and important, and I would whole-heartedly encourage anyone and everyone to do it, but the idea that there is any one particular work, or selection of works, that is Not Skippable just feels wrong to me, given that we cannot, in fact, read everything. I mean, certainly, reading particular books that are widely referenced is useful for understanding those references, but then again, I don't know, maybe we don't actually all need to keep the same set of cultural references forever?

Maybe that's just my attitude as someone for whom the whole concept of required reading did more to alienate me from particular authors and supposedly important works than it ever seems to have done to educate me or expand my horizons. The reading I did (and do) because I wanted to, because something about the books in question spoke to me or seemed important or interesting to me at a particular point in my life is what has done that.

I've thought since high school that if I were in charge of educating the world, I'd want to just dump a great big pile of good and interesting and thought-provoking books from various times and places and people in front of students and tell them to read whichever of them they liked. Although, yes, I am aware that that that raises practical issues that assigning everyone the same books and discussing them together doesn't. But even when I was a kid, some of my teachers did, in fact, do something like that now and then, so I know it's not utterly unworkable.

For those who might be interested, Roosevelt Montás, author of Rescuing Socrates : how the great books changed my life and why they matter for a new generation will be lecturing at St. John's College in live streams on April 1 and April 8. Info here.

>182 bragan: the thought experiment demands (its very insistent, or tells me so 🙂) we know how to select which books are “good and interesting and thought-provoking” enough - and what qualifications are used to delineate what’s in the great big pile and what isn’t.

>184 dchaikin: Eh, I know 'em when I see 'em. ;)

>185 bragan: You do. A 9 or a 12 years old - maybe not as much :)

>186 AnnieMod: I wasn't thinking the kids would pick the selections. I mean, in this dream scenario, I am the one in charge of education, so it's all me, baby. :)

But I wouldn't necessarily sell kids short, either. When I was in the 4th grade -- about 10 years old -- the teacher kept some shelves of books in the back of the classroom, stocked with everything from then-modern kids' books to classics, which we were allowed to check out and take home with us, or read there when our classwork was done. I remember reading, entirely on my own initiative, Mark Twain, H. G. Wells, Jonathan Swift, and Daniel Defoe from those shelves, among others. I was, admittedly, always the weird book kid. But I read that stuff and enjoyed it (well, except for the Defoe; I still have issues with Robinson Crusoe) precisely because nobody told me it was good for me or tried to dictate my response to it.

>187 bragan: But they were still somewhat curated :)

I get what you are saying but I still think a child needs some guiding into what they read. There are no absolutes but you cannot expect someone to develop their own taste if they had not had a chance to try everything. As badly as it is often done in some places, the point of "you should read these books" early in one's life is to allow you to see what you may like. Your teacher was doing exactly that. The list of "recommended summer reading" in my school years was doing that (not to be mistaken for the mandatory reading list). You need the exposure to know why you do not like something. "Need to read" and "do not need to read" are both the wrong sentiment IMO - you do not need to read anything but you should not be told you do not need to read certain books either.

>182 bragan: "maybe we don't actually all need to keep the same set of cultural references forever?"

So which ones are we ready to discard? Take Noah's ark. I doubt that anyone in the Western world grew up without hearing about that but I did not know about any great Floods and Noah until we got to world mythologies in fourth grade (I think). And it was not because I was not reading - none of my books were talking about that (that had changed since then - the children books based on Bible stories had made an appearance even in Bulgarian). That one may be a bit on the nose but there is a huge amount of such almost invisible references that everyone knows... as long as they grew up in the correct place on Earth.

The problem with some of these references is that they literally are part of the western languages now and writers don't think about using them as such.

FYI: I will post the next "question" (a challenging recommendation list) this weekend....

>188 AnnieMod: I think "you should have a chance to try everything" is a very, very different assertion than "you absolutely need to read these very specific particular books, whether you want to or not, or you cannot think of yourself as educated." Probably the difference of opinion just points down to how you interpret the phrase "you don't need to read that." To me, it just sounds to me like a rejection of that second statement, which I am all for. Not reading Mark Twain because you were off reading Toni Morrison or Ursula LeGuin instead isn't actually a problem, and I say that as someone who loves Twain and still hasn't gotten around to Morrison.

>190 bragan: Probably. :)

The way the quote went sounds to me more like "you really should not waste your time with these books because they are boring" and less like "you don't need to read these if you do not want to and that does not make you less educated". The fact that the "really really boring" was determined by not even finishing the SparkNotes in one case kinda sorta makes it even more laughable and problematic. It really feels more like a "replace these books with these" (aka "here is the new mandatory list because we don't like the old one") instead of "here are some more books which are worth reading".

>191 AnnieMod: Well, if that's the intent, I'm not in favor of that, either. :)

If we're looking only at creative writing (fiction, poetry, drama, essay) then I don't believe anything published in the last 75 years is a classic; with few exceptions I could extend that to a century. Your life is not irremediably diminished if you have not read Gone with the Wind or Toni Morrison. If there's variety in your reading of that period, you're doing fine.

Earlier than that, I think there are things you shouldn't skip. If this is your culture and you aim to be literate in it, then you need to be familiar with some Dickens, some Dickinson, some Austen, some Eliot (both George and T. S.), some Defoe, some Donne, some Shakespeare. And regardless of your belief or unbelief, you need above all to be familiar with the Bible.

A lot of good conversation here. I've been thinking on the question but don't have any suggestions of my own, really. I do feel like both capital-L Literacy and literacy in general have changed radically in the past 15 or so years, and it's hard for me to get a handle on what would be beneficial for kids/teens/young adults building their references, critical vocabulary, and body of cultural knowledge. Anything I would say here is coming from the paradigm that I grew up with, and that my son (in his 30s) grew up with—and I wonder whether a lot of what I think is a valuable way to learn might not be any more.

Or hey, maybe I'm just feeling old and alienated. I didn't love a lot of what I had to read in school, which was definitely old-white-man oriented, and pushed back against a lot of it—on my own I was reading a lot of edgy '70s sf, dirty realism, new fiction. But I think that pushing back formed me as well, and I don't regret any of what I read (or dodged reading because I was a good bullshitter, but later came back to out of curiosity). I know I always say I think Death in Venice is a terrible choice for 15-year-olds and I still stand by that! But I do appreciate having the cultural touchstones of Thomas Mann, Thomas Hardy, Zola, Shakespeare, the Bible all those dead and dust guys.

But also I'm an old white lady, and would like to see a lot more mirror/doorway books being chosen for kids coming up now. But I'm not sure what those books are. I don't really read YA, and—again—I have no idea how you would build a literary/cultural library for today's young folks. It's just a different world.

>193 librorumamans: you need to be familiar with some Dickens, some Dickinson, some Austen, some Eliot (both George and T. S.), some Defoe, some Donne, some Shakespeare.

…and as soon as you start making a list, even one as short as that, it gets messy :-)

That’s really a very “late-20th-century” snapshot of who the major authors are. Before about the 1960s, no-one much would have thought of including Emily Dickinson (if you must have an American, then Whitman or Melville, they might have said). And no-one would have put Donne ahead of Milton. Or even of Keats, Byron or Shelley. And why T S Eliot when you could have Virginia Woolf? Why Defoe and not Sterne or Fielding? Why Austen and George Eliot but not the Brontës?

All of those are debatable points, but I don’t think you’ll ever get a list that would be accepted by everyone and continue to be accepted in the future unless you strip it right down to “Bible-and-Shakespeare”. Literary icons come and go, fashions change, forgotten figures from the past are discovered, and our idea of what’s important shifts.

>195 thorold:

Oh, absolutely! Mine was not intended to be an exemplary list but only a suggestive list and one that included several women.

QUESTION 9
READING AROUND THE WORLD: A RECOMMENDATION LIST

From the choices on each line below, give us ONLY ONE fiction or nonfiction book you enjoyed on some level and would recommend for each set of countries/regions. No one is expected to do them all, but aim for at least 12 . Selections can be by the setting or native author. If using setting, please note as (setting)

*Example: 5. Italy: The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco. You can leave the lines you don't have a response to black OR delete them.

1. ALGERIA OR EGYPT
2. BRAZIL, ARGENTINA OR COLOMBIA
3. NIGERIA OR MOZAMBIQUE
4. AUSTRALIA OR NEW ZEALAND
5. ITALY OR GREECE
6. FRANCE OR BELGIUM
7. CHINA OR RUSSIA
8. GERMANY OR SWITZERLAND
9. MEXICO, PERU OR CHILE
10. IRAN OR TURKEY
11. ICELAND OR GREENLAND
12. UKRAINE, POLAND OR ROMANIA
13. NORWAY OR SWEDEN
14. DENMARK OR IRELAND
15. SPAIN OR PORTUGAL
16. CANADA (excluding Margret Atwood!)
17. INDIA OR PAKISTAN
18. KENYA OR SOUTH AFRICA
19. JAPAN OR N/S KOREA
20. THE ARCTIC OR ANTARCTICA
21. LONDON OR NEW YORK (CITIES)
22. HAWAII, NEWFOUNDLAND, SICILY OR ZANZIBAR
23. FINLAND, ESTONIA, LITHUANIA OR LATVIA
24. TUNISIA, SUDAN, MOROCCO or CAMEROON

OK, this question is not easy and it takes some time. I used my tags or Googled, and it's best done elsewhere and pasted here (me thinks). And damn it bugs me that I can't get all 24, but I consider my recommendations four or more stars, and I've got nuthin' for those categories.

1. ALGERIA: Children of the New World: A Novel of the Algerian War by Assia Djebar
2. BRAZIL : Little Star of Bela Lua by Luana Monteiro
3. MOZAMBIQUE: The Tuner of Silences by Mia Couto
4. NEW ZEALAND: The Whale Rider by Witi Ihimaera
5. ITALY: The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco
6. BELGIUM: Madame Verona Comes Down the Hill by Dimitri Verhulst
7. RUSSIA: Doctor Zhivago by Boris Pasternak
8. GERMANY: One Day the Ice Will Reveal All Its Dead, Clare Dudman (setting)
X. MEXICO, PERU OR CHILE?
10. IRAN: Let Me Tell You Where I've Been: New Writing by Women of the Iranian Diaspora edited by Morteza Baharloo
11. GREENLAND: One Day the Ice Will Reveal All Its Dead by Clare Dudman (setting)
12. ROMANIA: The Land of Green Plums by Herta Muller
13. NORWAY: Across the China Sea: A Novel by Gaute Heivoll
14. DENMARK: Lucca by Jens Christian Grondahl
15. PORTUGAL: Hunting Midnight by Richard Zimler (setting)
16. CANADA: Icefields by Thomas Wharton
17, PAKISTAN: In Other Rooms, Other Wonders by Daniyal Mueenuddin
18. SOUTH AFRICA : The Long Silence of Mario Salviati by Etienne Van Heerden
19. JAPAN : The Diving Pool: Three Novellas by Yoko Ogawa
20. THE ARCTIC : Migrations by Charlotte McConaghy (setting)
X. LONDON OR NEW YORK (CITIES)
22. NEWFOUNDLAND: The Innocents by Michael Crummey
23. LITHUANIA : In the Shadow of Wolves by Alvydas Šlepikas
24. SUDAN,The Wedding of Zein by Tayeb Salih

(I generally don't post first, but I thought you might need an example....)

So difficult to choose, and one...? Fiction or nonfiction, which to choose?

QUESTION 5: Reading around the World: A Recommendation List

1. Algeria: The Wretched of the Earth by Frantz Fanon

2. Brazil: Barren Lives by Graciliano Ramos

3. Nigeria: The Man Died: The Prison Notes of Wole Soyinka by Wole Soyinka

4. Australia: North of Nowhere: South of Loss by Janette Turner Hospital

5. Italy: The Moro Affair by Leonardo Sciascia

6. France: Fear: A Novel of World War I by Gabriel Chevalier

7. China or Russia - what a choice! China: Beijing Coma by Ma Jian

8. Germany: All for Nothing by Walter Kempowski

9. Chile: The Last Song of Manuel Sendero by Ariel Dorfman

10. Iran: The Shah's Last Ride by William Shawcross (historical setting)

11. Iceland: From the Mouth of the Whale by Sjón

12. Romania: October, Eight O'Clock by Norman Manea

13. Norway: Kristen Lavransdatter the trilogy by Sigrid Undset

14. Denmark: We. the Drowned by Carsten Jensen

15. Spain: Mazurka for Two Dead Men by Camilo José Cela

16. Canada: Fall on Your Knees by Ann Marie MacDonald

17. Pakistan: The Reluctant Fundamentalist by Mohsin Hamid

18. South Africa: The Wall of the Plague by André Brink

19. Japan: Tun-huang by Yasushi Inoue

20. Arctic:Sightlines by Kathleen Jamie

21. NYC: What I Loved by Siri Hustvedt

22. Newfoundland: Blackstrap Hawco by Kenneth J Harvey

23. Finland: Unknown Soldiers by Vaino Linna

24. Sudan: Acts of Faith by Philip Caputo (setting)

---------------------------
Apologies to Frans Bengtsson for making him a Dane. I have corrected Denmark to We, the Drowned, but both it and The Long Ships are wonderful tales of the sea.

So happy thorold at >201 thorold: had The Long Ships so that they both make it onto the overall recommendations list.

>198 avaland: I almost chose The Long Silence of Mario Salviati too, so happy to see it here.
Great list.

Q9:

All right, here goes. Picking as quickly as I can and prioritising things I've read recently where that makes any sense:

1. EGYPT — The complete poems of Cavafy by C P Cavafy (pick your translation)
2. ARGENTINA — Traveller of the century by Andrés Neuman
3. MOZAMBIQUE — Niketche (The first wife) by Paulina Chiziane
4. AUSTRALIA — A history of books by Gerald Murnane
5. ITALY — Le piccole virtù (The little virtues) by Natalia Ginzburg
6. FRANCE — Les années by Annie Ernaux
7. RUSSIA — A sportsman's notebook by Ivan Turgenev
8. GERMANY — Unterleuten by Juli Zeh
9. MEXICO — Muerte súbita (Sudden death) by Alvaro Enrigue
10. IRAN — Spijkerschrift (My father's notebook) by Kader Abdollah
11. ICELAND — Tómas Jónsson - bestseller by Guðberger Bergsson
12. POLAND — The books of Jacob by Olga Tokarczuk
13. SWEDEN — The long ships : a saga of the Viking age by Frans Bengtsson
14. DENMARK (Faroes) — The good hope by William Heinesen
15. SPAIN — El viento de la luna by Antonio Muñoz Molina
16. CANADA (excluding Margret Atwood!) — Volkswagen Blues by Jacques Poulin
17. INDIA — Bombay Talkie by Ameena Meer
18. SOUTH AFRICA — Down Second Avenue by Es'kia Mphahlele
19. JAPAN — The Makioka Sisters by Jun'ichirō Tanizaki
20. THE ARCTIC — Farthest North by Fridtjof Nansen
21. LONDON — Christie Malry's own double-entry by B S Johnson
22. SICILY — Il cane di terracotta (The terracotta dog) by Andrea Camilleri
23. FINLAND — The summer book by Tove Jansson
24. MOROCCO — La civilisation, ma mère !... (Mother comes of age) by Driss Chraïbi

Comments:
1. Sorry, cop-out by picking a classic.
2. I keep recommending this, but it's such a fantastic novel. Otherwise I might have gone for The shape of the ruins (Colombia).
3. Or Mia Couto, obviously.
4. I still have a teenage infatuation with Patrick White, so you nearly got Voss, but Murnane is such a remarkable and under-appreciated writer. When I get around to reading it in full, I'll probably want to recommend Coonardoo as well...
5-8. Far too much in my library to choose from for all these, they really are the first worthwhilebooks that came into my head.
9. Best tennis novel. Ever. But there are also Carlos Fuentes and Roberto Bolaño to think about.
10. I was tempted to put The adventures of Hajji Baba, but Kader Abdollah is a bit more contemporary...
11. Runner-up, The hitman's guide to housecleaning. Someone else will mention Independent people, the real Icelandic classic.
12. Just finished and still rumbling around my brain. Her other books are good too.
13. It was a toss-up between this and the Sjöwall & Wahlöö crime stories
14. Nothing obvious came to mind for metropolitan Denmark, except maybe The royal physician's visit (Swedish but set in Denmark). For Ireland I would have suggested anything by Dervla Murphy.
15. Again, too much choice. Anything by Javier Marías, Javier Cercas, or a stack of other great Spanish writers...
16. Or that woman who won the Nobel Prize for short stories...
17. Fairly minor, but I enjoyed it and it ended up as one of the books I wrote about in a dissertation a long time ago.
18. There's a lot of very good South African fiction in my recent reading, but this memoir is maybe a little less well known than the big guns, and it really stuck in my mind.
19. Runner-up, Yasunari Kawabata's Palm-of-the-hand stories.
20. Another cop-out, but the bit where they are over-wintering in the igloo still makes me wake up shivering.
21. Possibly the funniest book-keeping novel ever to have been set in a Hammersmith cake factory.
22. Ha, tricked you, you all thought I was going to say Abdulrazak Gurnah! And I should have, of course, but Inspector Montalbano is wonderful too, and Camilleri never got his invitation to Stockholm.
23., 24. Quite simply two books that everyone should have read, and that it's impossible to imagine anyone ever reading without a smile on their face.

>199 SassyLassy: I did the fiction non-fiction debate, and decided I'd do better with fiction.

>201 thorold: I like the notes following your list!

>201 thorold: Have corrected my error in making Bengtsson a Dane. Good to see the book still on a list though!

>203 SassyLassy: I still haven’t read We the drowned — I’ll have to push it back up the list, it got lost somewhere.

1b. EGYPT: Miramar
2a. BRAZIL: The Passion According to G.H. (Recommended only to those of strong stomach)
2b. ARGENTINA: The Witness
3a. NIGERIA: My Sister, the Serial Killer
4a. AUSTRALIA: Oscar and Lucinda
4b. NEW ZEALAND: The Bone People
5a. ITALY: If on a Winter's Night a Traveler
5b. GREECE: An Oresteia
6a. FRANCE: Jealousy
6b. BELGIUM: Memoirs of Hadrian
7b. RUSSIA: Buddha's Little Finger
8a. GERMANY: The Magic Mountain (This one fulfills both - German author, mostly Swiss setting, but 8b is one of my all-time favorites...)
8b. SWITZERLAND: On Love
9a. MEXICO: Pedro Páramo
9b. PERU: The Time of the Hero
10a. IRAN: The Enlightenment of the Greengage Tree
11a. ICELAND: Independent People (As predicted in 201 above)
12a. UKRAINE: The Collected Tales of Nikolai Gogol (Born in the Russian Empire, in a place that is now in Ukraine...)
12b. POLAND: The Street of Crocodiles (Born in a place that was Poland, but is now in Ukraine...)
13a. NORWAY: The Ice Palace
13b. SWEDEN: Miss Julie
14a. DENMARK: The Employees
14b. IRELAND: Endgame
15a. SPAIN: Solitude
15b. PORTUGAL: All the Names
16a. CANADA: The Diviners
17a. INDIA: A Suitable Boy
17b. PAKISTAN: Basti
18a. KENYA: The River Between
18b. SOUTH AFRICA: A Dry White Season
19a. JAPAN: The Memory Police
19c. S KOREA: The Vegetarian
21a. LONDON: The Hours
21b. NEW YORK: The Age of Innocence (As good as Motherless Brooklyn which I have already recommended a gazillion times)
22a. HAWAII: Democracy (partial setting)
22c. SICILY: Six Characters in Search of an Author
23a. FINLAND: The True Deceiver (Less sentimental than her more well-known novel)
24b. SUDAN: Season of Migration to the North

At first I was going to use the a/b/c to fill out 24 choices, since there were some for which I had no recommendations, but then I got carried away.

These were on my shelves or in my reading journal. Tried not to google except for spelling

1. ALGERIA OR EGYPT Journey with a Tangerine ,Fortunes of War
2. BRAZIL, ARGENTINA OR COLOMBIA In Patagonia
3. NIGERIA OR MOZAMBIQUE Americanah
4. AUSTRALIA OR NEW ZEALAND Down Under: Travels in a Sunburnt Country
5. ITALY OR GREECE Sixteen Pleasures ,Eleni
6. FRANCE OR BELGIUMSuite Francaise
7. CHINA OR RUSSIA Wild Swans, Stalins nose
8. GERMANY OR SWITZERLAND The Women in the Castle
9. MEXICO, PERU OR CHILE Hummingbirds Daughter ,House of Spirits
10. IRAN OR TURKEY Uncle Napoleon Birds without Wings
11. ICELAND OR GREENLAND The Green House
12. UKRAINE, POLAND OR ROMANIA Night
13. NORWAY OR SWEDEN Sophies World
14. DENMARK OR IRELANDMacbeth Trinity
15. SPAIN OR PORTUGAL Don Quiote
16. CANADA (excluding Margret Atwood!) Piano Mans Daughter
17. INDIA OR PAKISTAN Far Pavillion
18. KENYA OR SOUTH AFRICA Out of Africa
19. JAPAN OR N/S KOREA Pachinko
20. THE ARCTIC OR ANTARCTICA Where did you go Bernadette
21. LONDON OR NEW YORK (CITIES) The Frozen Thames Up in the old Hotel
22. HAWAII, NEWFOUNDLAND, SICILY OR ZANZIBAR A Reed in the Wind: Joanna Plantagenet, Queen of Sicily
23. FINLAND, ESTONIA, LITHUANIA OR LATVIA
24. TUNISIA, SUDAN, MOROCCO or CAMEROON Travels with a Tangerine, The Tattoo Map

BRAZIL, ARGENTINA OR COLOMBIA, very embarrassed not able to think of one but I bet if I googled id get something familar

Very embarrassed Ive not read anthing of these countries, must rectify that
FINLAND, ESTONIA, LITHUANIA OR LATVIA
UKRAINE OR ROMANIA NEWFOUNDLAND, SICILY OR ZANZIBAR

2. BRAZIL The Silence of the Rains Luiz Alfredo Garcia-Roza
3. NIGERIA Half a Yellow Sun Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
4. NEW ZEALAND The Bone People Keri Hulme
5. ITALY The Dance of the Seagulls Andrea Camilleri
6. FRANCE (setting) Waiting for Gertrude Bill Richardson
7. RUSSIA (setting)The Tsar of Love and Techno Anthony Marra
8. GERMANY Stones From the River Ursula Helge
9. MEXICO Mexican Gothic Silvia Moreno-Garcia
10. TURKEY (NF) Istanbul Orhan Pamuk
11. ICELAND Tainted Blood Arnaldur Indridason
13. SWEDEN The Laughing Policeman Maj Sjowell
14. IRELAND Milkman Anna Burns
15. SPAIN Shadow of the Wind Carlos Zafon
16. CANADA (excluding Margret Atwood!) The Hero’s Walk Anita Rau Badami
17. INDIA A Fine Balance Rohinton Mistry
18. SOUTH AFRICA Thirteen Hours Deon Meyer
19. JAPAN Shadow Family by Miyuki Miyabe
21. LONDON (setting) The Frozen Thames Helen Humphries
22. NEWFOUNDLAND Random Passage Bernice Morgan
24. MOROCCO This Blinding Absence of Light Tahar Ben Jelloun

Mysteries and detective stories are my favourite books, so much of my around the world reading involves mystieries in other countries. I debated doing all mysteries, but there were some non-mysteries I wanted to include, lol.

Q5: READING RECOMMENDATIONS AROUND THE WORLD
I'm a little surprised that I found books I've read for all of them.

1. EGYPT - Palace Walk by Naguib Mahfouz
2. ARGENTINA - Optic Nerve by María Gainza
3. NIGERIA - What It Means When a Man Falls From the Sky by Lesley Nneka Arimah
4. AUSTRALIA - Breath by Tim Winton
5. ITALY - Telephone Tales by Gianni Rodari
6. FRANCE - The Cook by Maylis de Kerangal
7. CHINA- Gold Boy, Emerald Girl by Yiyun Lee
8. GERMANY - Before the Feast by Saša Stanišić
9. MEXICO - The Story of My Teeth by Valeria Luiselli
10. TURKEY - My Name Is Red by Orhan Pamuk
11. ICELAND - The Faraway Nearby by Rebecca Solnit (she writes about a residency she did in Iceland, at the Library of Water, which I really want to see)
12. POLAND - They were Like Family To Me by Helen Maryles Shankman (short stories set in German-occupied Poland during WWII)
13. SWEDEN - Well now I can’t use The Long Ships, so: The Wolf and the Watchman by Niklas Natt och Dag
14. IRELAND - A Bit on the Side by William Trevor
15. SPAIN - The Shadow of the Wind by Carlos Ruiz Zafón
16. CANADA (excluding Margret Atwood!) - Open Secrets by Alice Munro
17. INDIA - Ghachar Ghochar by Vivek Shanbhag
18. SOUTH AFRICA - July’s People by Nadine Gordimer
19. S KOREA - Human Acts - Han Kang
20. THE ARCTIC OR ANTARCTICA - The Terror by Dan Simmons
21. NEW YORK - World’s Fair by E.L. Doctorow
22. NEWFOUNDLAND - Galore by Michael Crummey
23. FINLAND - Finn Family Moomintroll and all the Moomintroll books by Tove Jansson
24. TUNISIA, SUDAN, MOROCCO or CAMEROON - The Sheltering Sky by Paul Bowles

>199 SassyLassy: I note your Newfoundland pick....

>207 cindydavid4: That's what these lists are great for...recommendations!

>204 thorold: Lost at sea?

>205 ELiz_M: I debated about All the Names, so I feel less guilty about not using it now that I see your list.

>210 avaland: Dark beyond dark.

>210 avaland: Yes indeed!

Oh, my, but this is fun. I do love me a good list.

I tried not to pick obvious classics or books that already have multiple recommendations, so these might not be my "most favoritest" but I would still recommend.

1. ALGERIA: The German Mujahid by Boualem Sansal
EGYPT: The Cairo Trilogy by Naguib Mahfouz
2. BRAZIL: River of doubt : Theodore Roosevelt's darkest journey by Candice Millard (NF, setting)
ARGENTINA: Prisoner without a name, cell without a number by Jacobo Timerman (NF)
COLUMBIA: Memories of My Melancholy Whores by Gabriel García Márquez
3. NIGERIA: Say You're One of Them by Uwem Akpan
MOZAMBIQUE: ??
4. AUSTRALIA: Sorry by Gail Jones
NEW ZEALAND: Mister Pip by Lloyd Jones
5. ITALY: Silk by Alessandro Baricco
GREECE: My Family and Other Animals by Gerald Durrell (NF, setting)
6. FRANCE: Brodeck by Philippe Claudel
BELGIUM: Madame Verona Comes Down the Hill by Dimitri Verhulst
7. CHINA: Red Sorghum by Mo Yan
RUSSIA: Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman
8. GERMANY: Every Man Dies Alone by Hans Fallada
SWITZERLAND: ??
9. MEXICO: Shadow without a Name by Ignacio Padilla
PERU: Aunt Julia and the Scriptwriter by Mario Vargas Llosa
CHILE: ??
10. IRAN: Iran Awakening: From Prison to Peace Prize: One Woman's Struggle at the Crossroads of History by Shirin Ebadi (NF)
TURKEY: I will never see the world again : the memoir of an imprisoned writer by Ahmet Altan (NF)
11. ICELAND: Children in Reindeer Woods by Kristin Omarsdottir
GREENLAND: ??
12. UKRAINE: A short history of tractors in Ukrainian by Marina Lewycka
POLAND: Story of a Secret State by Jan Karski (NF)
ROMANIA: No One is Here Except All of Us by Ramona Ausubel
13. NORWAY: Love by Hanne Ørstavik
SWEDEN: The long ships by Frans Gunnar Bengtsson
14. DENMARK: A night of watching by Elliott Arnold
IRELAND: The Vanishing Act of Esme Lennox by Maggie O'Farrell
15. SPAIN: ??
PORTUGAL: The elephant's journey by José Saramago
16. CANADA (excluding Margret Atwood!): Translation is a Love Affair by Jacques Poulin
17. INDIA: Sea of Poppies by Amitav Ghosh
PAKISTAN: The Wandering Falcon by Jamil Ahmad
18. KENYA: A Guide to the Birds of East Africa by Nicholas Drayson (setting)
SOUTH AFRICA: The Folly by Ivan Vladislavić
19. JAPAN: Kamikaze by Yasuo Kuwahara (NF)
KOREA: Nothing to Envy by Barbara Demick (NF, setting)
20. THE ARCTIC: A Dream in Polar Fog by Yuri Rytkheu
ANTARCTICA: The Endurance : Shackleton's legendary Antarctic expedition by Caroline Alexander (NF, setting)
21. LONDON: The midwife : a memoir of birth, joy, and hard times by Jennifer Worth (NF)
NEW YORK CITY: The House of Mirth by Edith Wharton
22. HAWAII: ??
NEWFOUNDLAND: Memoirs of a Blue Puttee : the Newfoundland Regiment in World War One by A.J. Stacey (NF)
SICILY: ??
ZANZIBAR: Paradise by Abdulrazak Gurnah
23. FINLAND: The year of the hare by Arto Paasilinna
ESTONIA: Graves without crosses by Arved Viirlaid
LITHUANIA: In the Shadow of Wolves by Alvydas Šlepikas
LATVIA: ??
24. TUNISIA: ??
SUDAN: The Wedding of Zein and Other Stories by Tayeb Salih
MOROCCO: Rue du Retour by Abdellatif Laâbi (NF)
CAMEROON: The overloaded ark by Gerald Durrell (NF)

>213 labfs39: Bengtsson and Jacques Poulin seem to be doing well out of this question so far!
That Vladislavić book sounds interesting — I liked the two others of his I’ve tried.

>210 avaland: Referring to "Fall on Your Knees": I note your Newfoundland pick....

Wrong island, I believe; don't you mean Cape Breton?

>214 thorold: Although I tried to pick titles that weren't already recommended, a couple were so good as to be inevitable. The Folly was unexpectedly different. Which books by Vladislavić would you recommend?

>216 labfs39: Portrait with keys is very good, an entire travel book in which he doesn’t get more than walking distance from his suburban front door. I liked some of the pieces in the short story collection Propaganda by monuments too, but that’s as far as I’ve got.

Heading out on a short vacation in a couple of days, so this is a "quick hit" list, more or less. I know I'm not the first to include We, the Drowned, but it's such a wonderful novel that it bears repeating, in my view. Also, I've cheated by listing a Denmark book and an Ireland book. Noted the "fiction or non-fiction" proviso in the original question, and expanded Newfoundland to its full province name to include a fascinating Labrador memoir.

NIGERIA – GraceLand by Chris Abani
GREECE – Back to Delphi by Ioanna Karystiani
FRANCE – Our Lady of the Flowers by Jean Genet
RUSSIA – Lady with Lapdog and other Stories by Anton Chekhov
GERMANY – Every Man Dies Alone by Hans Fallada
CHILE - Tierra del Fuego by Francisco Coloane
IRAN – The Enlightenment of the Greengage Tree by Shokoofeh Azar
ROMANIA – The Appointment by Herta Mulla
NORWAY – Growth of the Soil by Knut Hamsun
DENMARK – We, the Drowned by Carsten Jensen
IRELAND- The Run of the Country by Shane Connaughton
SPAIN – Sepharad by Antonio Munoz Molina
CANADA – Natasha and Other Stories David Bezmozgis
INDIA OR PAKISTAN – The Glass Palace by Amitav Ghosh
SOUTH AFRICA – Too Late the Phalarope by Alan Paton
S KOREA – The Innocent by Richard E. Kim
LONDON - The Crust on Its Uppers by Derk Raymond
NEWFOUNDLAND & LABRADOR – Labrador by Choice: A Labrador Trapper’s Autobiography by Ben W. Powell
FINLAND – Under the North Star Trilogy by Väinö Linna
HAITI* – Foreign Shores by Marie-Helene Laforest

* Added to make up for some of my blank spots.

>213 labfs39: River of doubt! I was trying to remember that book for Brazil. What an amazing story. And I forgot Vanishing Act takes place in Ireland. For Sicily, A Reed in the Wind: Joanna Plantagenet, Queen of Sicily. Isnt Girl with the Dragon Tatoo in Switzerland?

QUESTION 9 READING AROUND THE WORLD: A RECOMMENDATION LIST

My criteria – the book I remember most fondly that is actually set in the named place
**
1. ALGERIA - The Plague, Camus (setting)

2. COLOMBIA – Love in the Time of Cholera, Gabriel Garcia Marquez

3. NIGERIA – My Sister the Serial Killer, Braithwaite

4. AUSTRALIA – The Women in Black, Madeleine St John

5. ITALY – Clash of Civilizations Over an Elevator in Piazza Vittorio, Amara Lakhous

6. FRANCE – The Perfect Nanny, Leila Slimani

7 RUSSIA – Anna Karenina, Tolstoy

8. SWITZERLAND – Sweet Days of Discipline, Fleur Jaeggy

9. MEXICO – Like Water For Chocolate, Laura Esquivel

10. IRAN – Not Without My Daughter, Betty Mahmoody (setting)

11. ICELAND – Miss Iceland, Olafsdottir (but if you’re looking for a book written by someone from GREENLAND, check out Niviaq Korneliussen)

12 ROMANIA – Dracula, Stoker (partial setting – the good part of this overly long novel is set in Romania)

13. SWEDEN – Darkest Day, Hakar Nesser

14. IRELAND – Down By the River, Edna O’Brien

15. PORTUGAL – 300 Days of Sun, Deborah Lawrenson (setting)

16. CANADA (excluding Margret Atwood!) – (we’re singling out Atwood and no other author? Strange) – Lullabies For Little Criminals, Heather O’Neill and Kiss of the Fur Queen, Thomson Highway

17. INDIA – A Fine Balance, Rohinton Mistry (setting)

18. SOUTH AFRICA – Born a Crime, Trevor Noah

19. N/S KOREA – Nothing to Envy, Barbara Demick (setting)

20. THE ARCTIC – The Reindeer People: Living With Animals and Spirits in Siberia, Piers Vitebsky (setting)

21. LONDON – Mrs Dalloway, Virginia Woolf

22. NEWFOUNDLAND – February, Lisa Moore

23. FINLAND – Moominvalley in November, Tove Jansson

24. MOROCCO – The Tattooed Map, Barbara Hodgson

Q9

Just the recommended minimum and not too many repetitions (I hope)...

1. ALGERIA -- Neiges de marbre, Mohammed Dib (dammit, seems untranslated--will have to write it up)
2. ARGENTINA -- Poems to read on a streetcar, Oliverio Girondo
3. NIGERIA -- Of Africa, Wole Soyinka

5. ITALY -- Poema a fumetti (Poem Strip), Dino Buzzati
6. BELGIUM -- L'amour monstre, Louis Pauwels
7. RUSSIA -- How the steel was tempered, Nikolai Ostrovsky
8. GERMANY -- Galgenlieder, Christian Morgenstern
9. CHILE -- Chile: El Otro 11 de Septiembre, Ariel Dorfman
10. TURKEY -- The Drop That Became the Sea, Yunus Emre

12. UKRAINE -- No Day without a Line, Yuri Olesha

15. SPAIN -- Makbara, Juan Goytisolo
16. CANADA -- The Book of Small, Emily Carr

This is fun. I made just half.
In the eye of the sun by Ahdaf Soueif (Egyptian author, originally in French, much of the book is set in England.) I liked this one better than A map of love.
Oil on water by Helon Habila (Nigeria)
The bone people by Keri Hulme (New Zealand)
Do not say we have nothing by Madeline Thien (setting primarily China, Canadian author of Chinese descent)
A Persian Requiem by Simin Daneshevar (Iran)
The gospel according to Jesus Christ by Jose Saramago (Portuguese author)
Obasan by Joy Kogawa (Canada)
The hungry tide by Amitav Ghosh (India)
Dust or The dragonfly sea by Yvonne Adhiambo Owuor (Kenya, part of Dragonfly sea is set in China)
Without your there is no us by Suki Kim (nonfiction) or A drop of Chinese blood (mystery) by James Church (set in North Korea, both by English speaking authors from the US)
Arctic Dreams by Barry Lopez
The city we became by N. K. Jemisin (New York, science fiction)

>222 markon: Love that Saramago! I didnt notice many folks reading that before I came here. Have now!

>215 librorumamans: that was referring to >199 SassyLassy: SassyLassy's post and choice for Newfoundland: Blackstrap Hawco by Kenneth J Harvey

>220 Nickelini: She is such a superstar and I often think other authors have been somewhat neglected by readers, particularly by women readers outside of Canada (says a person who has more than 50 works by or about her). I thought the "other" recommendations would be interesting.

1. ALGERIA - The Golden Ass by Apuleius (author)
2. COLOMBIA - Collected Novellas by Gabriel García Márquez
3. NIGERIA - Half of a Yellow Sun by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
4. AUSTRALIA - The Songlines by Bruce Chatwin (setting)
5. ITALY - Inferno by Dante
6. FRANCE - A Train in Winter: A Story of Resistance, Friendship, and Survival by Caroline Moorehead (nf)
7. CHINA - Red Star Over China by Edgar Snow (nf)
8. SWITZERLAND - Frankenstein by Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley (setting)
9. MEXICO - The Story of My Teeth by Valeria Luiselli
10. IRAN - Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi
X 11. ICELAND OR GREENLAND
12. POLAND - Shosha by Isaac Bashevis Singer (lots to choose from)
13. NORWAY OR SWEDEN - The Messiah of Stockholm by Cynthia Ozick (setting)
14. IRELAND - Milkman by Anna Burns
15. SPAIN - The Third Reich by Roberto Bolaño (setting)
16. CANADA - The View from Castle Rock : stories by Alice Munro
(I considered Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History by Stephen Jay Gould, nf)
X 17. INDIA OR PAKISTAN
18. KENYA - A Grain of Wheat by Ngũgĩ wa Thiongʾo
19. JAPAN - Barefoot Gen by Keji Nakazawa
X 20. THE ARCTIC OR ANTARCTICA
21. NEW YORK (CITY) - Memories of the Future by Siri Hustvedt
(I considered The Chosen by Chaim Potok)
22. HAWAII - Island Fire : An Anthology of Literature from Hawai'i edited by Cheryl A. Harstad and James R Harstad
X 23. FINLAND, ESTONIA, LITHUANIA OR LATVIA
24. MOROCCO - Désert by J. M. G. Le Clézio

>226 dchaikin: I really wanted to add Persepolis but it was in the category with Turkey so I'm glad to see it got added. I debated hard with the Ireland one - glad to see someone else who loved Milkman

>227 raidergirl3: This was a tough list to make, although entertaining to search out. Persepolis is a favorite of mine. Milkman is terrific.

1. EGYPT - Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel, and the Rise of Monotheism
2. COLOMBIA - The Informers by Juan Gabriel Vasquez
3. NIGERIA - Zomo the Rabbit: a Trickster Tale from West Africa
4. AUSTRALIA - Remembering Babylon by David Malouf
5. GREECE - Sappho
6. FRANCE - Madame de Stael: The First Modern Woman by Francine du Plessix Gray
7. CHINA - The Invisible Valley by Su Wei
8. GERMANY - Of Walking in Ice by Werner Herzog
9. CHILE - The Neruda Case
10. IRAN OR TURKEY XXX
11. GREENLAND - An African in Greenland
12. UKRAINE, POLAND OR ROMANIA
13. NORWAY - One of Us: The Story of Anders Breivik and the Massacre in Norway
14. IRELAND - At Swim, Two Boys
15. SPAIN OR PORTUGAL
16. CANADA (excluding Margret Atwood!) - The Stone Angel Margaret Laurence
17. INDIA OR PAKISTAN - The God of Small Things
18. KENYA OR SOUTH AFRICA
19. JAPAN - Karate-Do My way of life
20. THE ARCTIC OR ANTARCTICA
21. NEW YORK (CITIES) - Reacher Said Nothing by Andy Martin
22. NEWFOUNDLAND, - The Bird Artist by Howard Norman
23. FINLAND, - The Palace of the Snow Queen: Winter Travels In Lapland by Barbara Sjoholm
24.

QUESTION 9
READING AROUND THE WORLD: A RECOMMENDATION LIST

From the choices on each line below, give us ONLY ONE fiction or nonfiction book you enjoyed on some level and would recommend for each set of countries/regions. No one is expected to do them all, but aim for at least 12 . Selections can be by the setting or native author. If using setting, please note as (setting)

*Example: 5. Italy: The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco. You can leave the lines you don't have a response to black OR delete them.

1. ALGERIA OR EGYPT - The Map of Love by Ahdaf Soueif
2. BRAZIL, ARGENTINA OR COLOMBIA - Love in the Time of Cholera by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
3. NIGERIA OR MOZAMBIQUE - Little Bee by Chris Cleave
4. AUSTRALIA OR NEW ZEALAND - Sorry by Gail Jones
5. ITALY OR GREECE - Whereabouts by Jhumpa Lahiri (setting)
6. FRANCE OR BELGIUM - Les Liaisons Dangereuse by Pierre Choderlos de Laclos
7. CHINA OR RUSSIA - Red Azalea by Anchee Min
8. GERMANY OR SWITZERLAND - The Tin Drum by Gunter Grass
9. MEXICO, PERU OR CHILE - House of the Spirits by Isabel Allende
10. IRAN OR TURKEY - Honor by Elif Shafak
11. ICELAND OR GREENLAND - Burial Rites by Hannah Kent (setting)
12. UKRAINE, POLAND OR ROMANIA - The Painted Bird by Jerzy Kosinski
13. NORWAY OR SWEDEN - Music and Silence by Rose Tremain (setting)
14. DENMARK OR IRELAND - The Deportees and Other Stories by Roddy Doyle
15. SPAIN OR PORTUGAL - Sister Queens: The Noble, Tragic Lives of Katherine of Aragon and Juana, Queen of Castile by Julia Fox
16. CANADA (excluding Margret Atwood!) The Underpainter by Jane Urquhart
17. INDIA OR PAKISTAN An Unrestored Woman by Shobha Rao
18. KENYA OR SOUTH AFRICA - Born a Crime: Stories of a South African Childhood by Trevor Noah
19. JAPAN OR N/S KOREA - Human Acts by Han Kang
20. THE ARCTIC OR ANTARCTICA - The Arctic Fury by Greer Macallister (setting)
21. LONDON OR NEW YORK (CITIES) - Mrs. Dalloway by Virginia Woolf
22. HAWAII, NEWFOUNDLAND, SICILY OR ZANZIBAR - The Innocents by Michael Crummy
23. FINLAND, ESTONIA, LITHUANIA OR LATVIA - The True Deceiver by Tove Janssen
24. TUNISIA, SUDAN, MOROCCO or CAMEROON - The Sheltering Sky by Paul Bowles

I'm nowhere near as widely read, geographically, as many of you, but I'm happy to take suggestions to expand my horizons. It took a good deal of work to come up with my entries. Several were read years ago.

>230 Cariola: For someone who says she's not geographically wide-read, you did pretty well I'd say. I almost picked Little Bee for Nigeria too. And we both picked Mrs Dalloway and Born A Crime . I have to check out Music and Silence because I've really enjoyed the two Rose Tremain novels I've read and didn't know this one was set in a Nordic country

See new thread....