Bindings - "Hardback" is misleading

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Bindings - "Hardback" is misleading

1lcl999
Nov 29, 2022, 12:58am

If I have a book, I mean that thing with a text block and a cover, which would include the vast majority of the media that members record, then the only options to describe it under "paper book" are paperback or hard back. Now once upon a time "paperback" denoted a cheap production with the the spine of the text block cut square and glued. The misleading technical term is "perfect bound". Such books would never lie flat when opened and eventually with use and/or time the leaves would start falling out. In that distant past "hardback" denoted a quality production with pages folded in sections and sewn together. These books would lie flat when opened, and would survive repeated use.
Now I am finding books with a stiff cover, but perfect bound. Mutton dressed up as lamb.
So really, under "paper book" the options should be "perfect bound" or "sewn sections". The term "hardback" is misleading.

2AnnieMod
Nov 29, 2022, 1:03am

You can create your own formats if you do not like the default ones.

3lilithcat
Nov 29, 2022, 8:40am

>1 lcl999:

So really, under "paper book" the options should be "perfect bound" or "sewn sections". The term "hardback" is misleading.

No, they shouldn't. Because a paperback can be perfect bound or sewn, as can a hardcover. You can have multiple levels of media type, which allows you to have "hardcover-perfect bound", "hardcover - sewn", "Paperback-spiral bound", "Paperback - pamplet stitch", etc.

4timspalding
Nov 29, 2022, 9:00am

There may be better systems for describing books. You can create your own, as AnnieMod noted. But the main driver of the current system is that it's the system used by, or derivable from, the data we get.

5lcl999
Edited: Dec 2, 2022, 1:48am

>4 timspalding: So the publishers, having first christened a cheap and nasty binding as "perfect", now true to form call a "perfect" bound book with stiff cover "hardback" thus corrupting and confusing what used to be a compliment. Maybe LR should just drop "hardback" from book descriptions as it no longer conveys useful information.

6paradoxosalpha
Edited: Dec 2, 2022, 1:51am

I'm not passing judgment on whether this is a fight worth having, but I don't think we are the people to have it with.

("We" in the sense of the LT site operators and users.)

7bnielsen
Dec 2, 2022, 3:38am

>1 lcl999: Just curious. I'm seeing Hardcover and Paperback as Media. Not Hardback. Is that a language setting here on LT?

8MarthaJeanne
Dec 2, 2022, 4:26am

One of the main advantages for me of buying hardcover books is that generally the hardcover is larger, and often the publisher just shrinks the pages to fit the other format, making it harder to read. Since most of these books are going to be discarded after one reading, or if retained, probably not ever read again, I really don't care how it is bound, as long as it holds together for that reading and has all the pages in the right order. If those criteria are not met, I complain to the publisher, and have always received a fresh copy in better condition.

9bnielsen
Dec 2, 2022, 6:04am

>8 MarthaJeanne: Reminds me of a shelf with hardcovers that I should get rid of :-)

10DuncanHill
Dec 2, 2022, 6:23am

I may be missing something obvious, but I've always thought the key feature of a hardcover book is that the cover is hard.

11bnielsen
Dec 2, 2022, 8:26am

And I thought that paperbacks were small. But then I noticed this one:
https://www.librarything.com/work/28407582/details/25208840

which is a 1550 pages long paperback weighing 3.360 kg

12lilithcat
Dec 2, 2022, 8:33am

>10 DuncanHill:

You are exactly right, and that is true whether it is perfect-bound (also called "adhesive binding") or in sewn signatures.

Definition of "hardbound" from Bookbinding and the Conservation of Books: https://cool.culturalheritage.org/don/dt/dt1712.html

13Bernarrd
Edited: Dec 2, 2022, 9:46am

>5 lcl999: I think your argument is with the publishers of some new books, not LT. There are still tons of Hardcover books that were sewn and well made in the world. You just do not find very many in your average New Bookstore. Many of the books made in the past still pass your test, maybe you are just looking in the wrong place for your books. And I also think that readers and collectors of older books, would not care much for your suggestion to remove the term Hardcover from LT just because of your personal reading habits.

14timspalding
Edited: Dec 2, 2022, 11:13am

So the various data providers give us a media field. It's not a controlled field; it's just a string, combining various concepts, including size, packaging, binding, cover material. There's no standardization or policing. And it differs somewhat between Amazon, Bowker and library standards. We map these terms to the LT system.

15timspalding
Edited: Dec 2, 2022, 11:13am

If you're interested, we currently map the following terms ;)

Paperback | Hardcover | Audio CD | Library Binding | Unknown Binding | Mass Market Paperback | Broché | Taschenbuch | Gebundene Ausgabe | Audio Cassette | Broschiert | Perfect Paperback | Board book | School & Library Binding | Turtleback | Poche | Spiral-bound | Relié | Comic | MP3 CD | Preloaded Digital Audio Player | Unbound | Loose Leaf | Album | Calendar | Pamphlet | CD-ROM | Ring-bound | Unbekannter Einband | Reliure inconnue | Paperback Bunko | Textbook Binding | Map | Tankobon Hardcover | Plastic Comb | Leather Bound | Cards | Sheet music | Sondereinband | Kalender | Misc. Supplies | Cartonné | Broschüre | Poster | DVD-ROM | Zubehör | Digital | Hardcover-spiral | Print on Demand (Paperback) | DVD Audio | JP Oversized | Game | DVD | Carte | Tankobon Softcover | CD | Rag Book | Spiralbindung | Pappbilderbuch | Bonded Leather | Stationery | Imitation Leather | VHS Tape | Ringeinband | Vinyl Bound | Geschenkartikel | Wall Chart | MP3 CD Library Binding | Diary | Nicht gebunden | Software | Musiknoten | Diskette | Accessory | Card Book | Pop-Up | Foam Book | Paperback Shinsho | Non relié | Print on Demand (Hardcover) | Digital Download | Fournitures diverses | Ledereinband | Product Bundle | Landkarte | Audio CD Library Binding | Flexibound | Hörkassette | Belle reliure | Tageskalender | Gift | Cassette | Toy | Journal | Loseblattsammlung | Bath Book | CD-Rom | Partition de musique | Couverture à spirales | Bürobedarf & Schreibwaren | Board Game | Kitchen | Transparency | Videotape | Pocket Book | Single Issue Magazine | Thread Bound | Kunststoffeinband | Bibliothekseinband | Roughcut | Cadeau | Feuillets mobiles | Coffret produits | Microfilm | Hardcover Comic | Personal Computers | Vorbespielter Audioplayer | Workbook | Cuir/luxe | Album relié | 3.5" disk | Spielzeug | Office Product | Misc. | Microfiche | Farbfolie | A anneaux | Print on Demand | MiniDisc | Electronics | Baguettes de reliure plastique | Disquette | Baby Product | Magazine | Spielkarten | Cahier | Lehrbuch | Videokassette | Spiel | Kunstledereinband | Cartes | Kindle Edition | Film | Calendrier | Computerspiel | Brochure | Kitchen & Home | Sonstiges Zubehör | Blu-ray | Carton Quantity | Plastikspiralbindung | Slide | Video Game | Stoffbilderbuch | Tagebuch | Vinyl | DVD-Rom | Postkartenbuch | Halbledereinband | Personal Care | Mook | Jeu vidéo | Laser Disc | Computer Game | Jouet | Puzzle | Wireless Phone Accessory | Flap | Livre en tissu | Apparel | Papeterie | T-Shirt | Séquence inédite | Jeu | Divers | Cassette vidéo | Sports | Babyartikel | Accessoire | CD-I | Badebuch | Disque laser | Audio Reel Tape | Game Cartridge | Bargain Book | DVD-Audio | 3.5" and 5.25" disks | Videospiel | USB Flash Drive | Paper Catalog | Téléchargement | Fournitures de bureau | Zeitschrift | Magnetic media | LP Record | Album vinyle | Audio-Video | Flexibler Einband | Arbeitsbuch | Hat | Schautafel | Health and Beauty | Audible Audio Edition | Gartenartikel | DVD musical | T-shirt | Garden & Outdoors | Schiebebuch | Lebensmittel & Getränke | HD DVD | Tankobon relié | Impression à la demande | Carnet, journal | Lecteur digital à contenu audio pré-chargé | DVD audio | Badartikel | Haushaltswaren | Partition | Pop-up | Livre en mousse | Livre de bain | Cuisine | Cuir reconstitué | Imitation cuir | Saddle stitch | Format Kindle | Digital Audiobook | Reliure à spirales | 単行本 | 大型本 | ムック | コミック | 文庫 | 単行本(ソフトカバー) | ハードカバー | 新書 | ペーパーバック | 楽譜 | Perfect | Tools & Hardware | カセット | - | Cartes postales | ボードブック | オンデマンド | 雑誌 | CD Video | 革装本 | (B) | タートルバック | カレンダー | Belle 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Schuhe | Kindle版 | Camera | Sports Apparel | Vêtements | CD-R | Paper Gift Certificate | Puériculture | 5.25" disk | CD-G | Ausrüstung | MP3 Album | Jeu informatique | Bookmark | Digital Audio Tape | Karten | Gedruckter Zugangscode | Home | Disquette 3.5 | Automotive | License | Luggage | Fester Einband mit Spiralbindung | Broché | Relié | Cartonné | Hörbuch-Download | Sonstiges Zubehör | Broschüre | Side stitch | 8" disk | Shoes | Unlocked Phone | Prepaid Phone Card | DVD-R | Loose Stones | Outils et accessoires | Épicerie | Sport | MP3 CD Bibliothekseinband | Audio CD Bibliothekseinband | Email Gift Certificate | Einzelheft-Magazin | MP3 ダウンロード | エレクトロニクス | S-VHS | Bijoux | Geklammert | Ecard Gift Certificate | Jewellery | Wireless Plan Option | Audible Audiobook | Novelty Book | ホーム&キッチン | Notebook | Tankobon relié | Hörkassette | Non relié | Piqûre à cheval | Blu-ray Audio | Couverture à spirales | not_a_binding_we_have_mapped | Book | 4 | 4.1.3 | 4.5 | 2.2 | 1.1.1 | 4.3 | 4.6 | 4.2 | 381 | Bürobedarf & Schreibwaren | Album relié | Wireless Phone | Zubehör | Textilien | Audible版 | Eyewear | 单行本-精装 | 平装-文库 | Wine | Console | Target | USB Memory Stick | Interactive DVD | N | Organizer | Impression à la demande | Battery | Videodisc | Format Kindle avec audio/vidéo | Logiciels à télécharger | Disquette 3.5" et 5.25" | オフィス用品 | Montre | Accessoires pour téléphone sans fil | Cartouche de jeu | Appareil-photos | Konsole | Logiciel | ヘルスケア&ケア用品 | ウェア&シューズ | Lizenz | スポーツ用品 | 食品&飲料 | Blocks | UMD pour PSP | ジュエリー | Licence | Plastic Gift Certificate | LD-ROM | Cuir reconstitué | Amazon Video | Cassette vidéo | Téléphone sans fil | 時計 | Reliure à spirales | Volume License | Tシャツ | Téléchargement audio | Piqûre à cheval | Téléchargement audio | Nintendo 64 | Séquence inédite | Wireless Collateral | USBメモリスティック | GSM Phone SIM | Boîte | Wireless Plan | Television | Bunko broché | オンデマンド(DVD-R) | Carnet | Boîte | Hut | Copertina flessibile | Formato Kindle | Copertina 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| Cartas | Licencia | Deportes | Partitura | VCD | Articoli per la casa | Accessorio per telefono wireless | Scarpe | Prodotti per l''infanzia | Automobile | Gioco | Terrazze e Giardini | Gioielleria | Orologio | 盒式录音带 | Vino | Varios suministros | Telefono wireless | 手机配件 | 家居 | Gioco per computer | 日历 | 按需定制(平装) | Fita cassete | eBook Kindle com áudio/vídeo | Capa reforçada | Cómic de tapa dura | Álbum | Encadernação de livro didático | Encadernação de livro didático | Folha solta | Sobrecapa | Calendario | A fogli intercambiabili | Lettore audio digitale precaricato | Edición Kindle | Livro cartonado | Encadernação para biblioteca | Plástico | Acessório de telefone sem fio | Espiral | UMD para PSP | Encadernação para escola e biblioteca | 图书馆装订 | Tapa dura (Tankobon) | JP extragrande | Libro de tela | Cuaderno | Cuero artificial | セット買い | Pacchetto di prodotti | Álbum | CD MP3 | Audiobook Audible | Pettine di plastica | Regalo | Copertina rigida (Tankobon) | Libro de espuma | 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VERY YOUNG"" | Olinick | SULLIVAN | MCCHESNEY | SONS AND LOVERS. | Turgenev, Ivan | The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber | Tolkien, J. 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Trade Paper; Online Resource | Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth | printed and E-Book | Children''s Board Books; Other | capa dura | Livro papel | Children''s Board Books; Trade Cloth; Prepack | Quantity Pack; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Tra | Visual novel | Paperback & eBook | Brochuere | Flexcover | chapback | Catchword Papers | e-chapbook | E-chap | Stapled mimeo | html/pdf/mp3 | Audible UK | Audio Cassette; Trade Cloth; Other; Mixed Media | Twin Loop | Illuminated Book | 193 | 167 | 448 | Multi-Media | Dwarsligger | stapled | ribbon-bound chapbook | japanese stab bound | chapbook/e-chapbook | chap | chapbook/ ebook | poetry side-stapled to the string of a teabag | Paper and Staple | chap/e-chap | online chapbook | paper and staple with images | chap/ebook | poetry chapbook | paper with animal stamps and staple | chapbook/e-book | chapbook/ebook | ebook/ paperback | Electronic Chapbook | paper w/ envelope | perfect binding, white interior paper, full-color interior ink | Planeta | Screenplay | Mixed Media; Trade Cloth; Cards,Flash Cards | Saddlestiched | paperback with dust jacket | Saddle-stitch | Trade Cloth; Mixed Media; Spiral | Serialised Online | Linen-bound Softcover | Wrappers | Stapled booklet | Counterpack Filled; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth | Book - Children''s Non-fiction | Decorated cloth | Spiral; Merchandise, Other; Mixed Media | Music Artist | 12,0 x 16,5 cm | CD-ROM; Spiral; Trade Cloth; Mixed Media | Hand-Bound | saddle stitched booklet | Trade paperback C format | Free online fiction | online free short | Livejournal posting | Kobo Edition | Póster | Paperback, Ebook | Movie Script | كوشيه ملون | مجلدان | Paper-bound Softcover | Prepack; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth | Hardcover with dust jacket | Hardcover & E-book | Leather-bound | Unabridged Audiobook | Faux leather hardcover | Leatherbound, hard-cover, 5 volumes | Consola | Counterpack Filled | Paberback | Interactive ebook | CD-ROM; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper | Aranyozott kiadói egész vászonkötés | 1700 | 976 | 1275 | 156 | 158 | 279 | 320 | 47 | 41 | 49 | 169 | 187 | 235 | 264 | 414 | 282 | 124 | 730 | 326 | 180 | 89 | 144 | 37 | 70 | 873 | 360 | 794 | 146 | 383 | 308 | 73 | 88 | 251 | 184 | 403 | 704 | 91 | 626 | 350 | 386 | 302 | 168 | 170 | 225 | 389 | 58 | 202 | 362 | 368 | 336 | 280 | 199 | 98 | 398 | 278 | 373 | 340 | 250 | 240 | 61 | 211 | 34 | 226 | 236 | 291 | 74');INSERT INTO `binding` (`b_binding`) VALUES186 | 220 | 241 | 128 | 281 | 266 | 935 | 866 | 245 | 90 | 209 | 212 | 306 | 221 | 210 | 228 | 298 | 62 | 207 | 92 | 307 | 272 | 268 | 101 | 125 | 127 | 107 | 255 | 151 | 154 | 138 | 162 | 147 | 94 | 172 | 103 | 114 | 123 | 117 | 113 | 87 | 81 | 97 | 108 | 185 | 177 | 836 | 684 | 364 | 503 | 742 | 223 | 342 | 546 | 292 | 270 | 506 | 2359 | 50 | 25 | 345 | 316 | 782 | 152 | 217 | 300 | 256 | 248 | 561 | 339 | 304 | 397 | 238 | 745 | 420 | 102 | 354 | 288 | 396 | 318 | 333 | 404 | 808 | 416 | 36 | 276 | 474 | 346 | 116 | 215 | 1458 | 76 | 80 | 141 | 630 | 153 | 260 | 77 | 79 | 71 | 252 | 100 | 99 | 312 | 48 | 53 | 69 | 57 | 44 | 55 | 160 | 1331 | 190 | 118 | 1350 | 18 | 299 | 696 | 111 | 188 | 200 | 67 | 237 | 195 | 182 | 249 | 201 | 356 | 958 | 222 | 377 | 194 | 192 | 198 | 75 | 174 | 110 | 33 | 243 | 242 | 458 | 382 | 537 | 314 | 56 | 38 | 21 | 105 | 305 | 229 | 135 | 137 | 142 | 145 | 284 | 24 | 702 | 585 | 179 | 176 | 230 | 181 | 234 | 51 | 157 | 134 | 155 | 132 | 126 | 112 | 400 | 140 | 421 | 655 | 261 | 189 | 175 | 171 | 934 | 1573 | 330 | 287 | 310 | 31 | 349 | 163 | 405 | 122 | 40 | 622 | 317 | 1347 | 271 | 203 | 197 | 72 | 133 | 178 | 54 | 227 | 247 | 64 | 275 | 492 | 216 | 246 | 1617 | 853 | 947 | 231 | 1204 | 466 | 253 | 402 | 380 | 1680 | 590 | 664 | 1909 | 739 | 409 | 574 | 219 | 290 | 328 | 499 | 259 | 106 | 115 | 82 | 208 | 2026 | 418 | 436 | 173 | 143 | 646 | 464 | 509 | 372 | 528 | 1000 | 751 | 748 | 267 | 166 | 183 | 148 | 43 | 244 | 289 | 164 | 52 | 496 | 334 | 477 | 433 | 406 | 390 | 369 | 992 | 1001 | 130 | 136 | 68 | 119 | 740 | 524 | 348 | 1178 | 2262 | 1498 | 139 | 78 | 96 | 84 | 104 | 131 | 20 | 63 | 45 | 60 | 59 | 121 | 746 | 2769 | 83 | 788 | 204 | 86 | 435 | 66 | 439 | 214 | 109 | 85 | 407 | 1038 | Impresión por encargo | 905 | 149 | 273 | 322 | 512 | 1362 | 666 | 886 | 295 | 442 | 660 | 286 | 453 | 456 | 1st | 165 | 1348 | 2503 | Not a book | Hardcover & Audio Cassetter | Música MP3 | Scholarly Article | Mixed Media; Trade Paper; E-Book | author''s website | Mixed Media; Print, Other; Trade Paper; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other | Mixed Media; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Trade | Mixed Media; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Trade Paper; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other | Sombrero | Hardcover (Large Print) | softcover | ebook and trade paperback | Mixed Media; Trade Paper; Trade Cloth | Trade Paper; Video Disc; Mixed Media | Clothbound | Photocopy spiral bound | Leatherbound | Manga | Magazin | Manhwa | Article/Online | Broschur | Online serial | podcast | Hard Back | Paperback/Pamphlet Binding | digital audio book | tradepaper | منزل من رب العالمين | other | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Trade Paper; Trade Paper | Audible Audiolibro | Adressbuch | Trade Paper; Mixed Media | magazine | Three volumes quarter bound in buckram with Modigliani paper sides | Trade Cloth; Mixed Media; Print, Other | Promotional, Other; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Promotional, Other | Scaricare software | Hardcover, illustrated | Ebook, Paperback | large print hardcover | Trade Cloth; Promotional, Other | Inbunden | Pbk | Pbk (journal) | PBK | Pbck | Hard board, cloth covered | Cloth back | Trade Paper; Prepack; Merchandise, Other | Review Copy | Single Issue Comic | Promotional, Other; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper | Chirp Audio | fumetto | Acting Edition | epub | Spiral bound | Hardcover, 2 vol. | Mixed Media; Audio, Other | Box or Slipcased; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth | Box or Slipcased; Digest Paperback; Trade Paper | 1.44M, 3.5 Disk, DOS; E-Book; Mixed Media | Trade Paper; Merchandise, Other; Quantity Pack | Trade Cloth; Transparencies; Mixed Media | Box or Slipcased; Picture Book; Picture Book; Picture Book; Picture Book; Picture Book | Promotional, Other; Trade Paper; Trade Cloth; Promotional, Other | Trade Paper; E-Book; Mixed Media | CD-ROM; Trade Paper | Paperback/e-book | mp3 Audiobook Download | Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; E-Book; Quantity Pack | Wattpad Novels | Audio Cassette; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth | WebToon | Spiral; DVD; Mixed Media | Mixed Media; DVD; Spiral | Box or Slipcased; Children''s Board Books; Children''s Board Books; Children''s Board Books; Children''s Board Books | Mixed Media; Digital, Other; Trade Paper | landscape, flexible | 5-hole punched | softbacked | Mass Market Papesback | Article Series | Online Edition | plaintext | ebook, scanlation | Web comic | Mass Market; Prepack | Blinkist | Flexiback | Vocabulary | Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Mixed Media | Mixed Media; Audio Cassette; Book, Other | Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Box or Slipcased | Promotional, Other; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper | Promotional, Other; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper | Linen | White Paper | Kit with stapled book | Kit including book | Kit with book | Library binding | Flex | Hardcover 1st. U.K. edition | Disco laser | dvd | Audio (6 CDs) | video courses | ebook, kindle | HarperCollins | ring bound | mp3 audiobook | Newsprint | deluxe comic | Danskt band | digitized book | CD-ROM; Book, Other; Wallchart; Mixed Media | Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Prepack | Trade Paper; Mixed Media; Online Resource | Mixed Media; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Trade Paper; Print, Other; Print, | Kindle and Paperback | Vook | Over-sized Hardcover - 12" x 17" | Paperback, Direct Sales Comic Book | Prestige One-Shot | Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Quantity Pack | Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper | Trade Paper; Prepack | Perfect; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth | Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Box or Slipcased | Children''s Board Books; Trade Cloth; Mixed Media | Webtoons | Webserial | Hardcover, part of 7 volume boxed set of Philip Marlowe novels | Slipcase | Promotional, Other; US-Tall Rack Paperback; US-Tall Rack Paperback; US-Tall Rack Paperback; US-Tall Rack Paperback | Trade Cloth; Merchandise, Other; Mixed Media | Promotional, Other; Novelty Book | Papaerback | Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Box or Slipcased | Radioplay | Mixed Media; Trade Cloth; Poster | Hard Cover (gebonden) | Mixed Media; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Trade Paper; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, | Paperback, e-book, and KU | Online Journal Archive | audio | OverDrive Listen audiobook | Children''s Board Books; Compact Disc; Mixed Media | https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/the-witch-and-the-bull/list?title_no=1892 | Ebook/Paperback | Trade Cloth; Mixed Media; Digital, Other | Ringbound; Mixed Media; Digital, Other | Mixed Media; Digital, Other; Looseleaf - sheets only | Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade | Promotional, Other; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth | Mass Market; Quantity Pack | hardback, cloth binding | Sheet Map, Flat | Webtoon and Comic Book | Magazine Novelette | Forum | Paper over Board | Gatewoood, cloth casing | Online Publication, Free | original online fiction | ePublished | Online Fic | 5.00 | Ringbound; Trade Paper; Mixed Media | Мягкая обложка | free manga scanlation | Webcomic/Manhua | free online original fiction | Online Original Fictions | Manga Online | English scanlation | Original Online Fiction | online free fiction | eBook (Online) | Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Quantity Pack | Compact Disc; Audio, Other | Audio, Other; CD MP3 | Video, VHS Format; Trade Paper; Trade Cloth; Mixed Media | CD-ROM; Mixed Media; Book, Other | Blog | Encuadernación para biblioteca | quer pela forma como perceciona o mundo e pelos seus ideais | Hardcover, paperback, and e-book | Paperback CD | Lebensmittel & Getränke | Unabridged Audio Book | A4 Paper | OverDrive Read | Tarot Deck & Booklet | Trade Cloth; Kit; Mixed Media | 3.66 | Prepack; Trade Cloth; CD-ROM | E-Book; Diskette; Mixed Media | E-Book; E-Book; E-Book | Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Prepack | translation | Mixed Media; Kit; Stapled | CD-ROM; Trade Cloth | Encuadernación en hilo | Encuadernación en hilo | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Trade Cloth; Digital, Other | Trade Paper; E-Book; Quantity Pack | Prepack; Trade Cloth; Prepack; Trade Cloth | Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Prepack | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Compact Disc | CD-ROM; Trade Cloth; Trade Paper; Mixed Media | Hardcover with jacket | Kindle Edition & NOOK | UK-B Format Paperback; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper | Shrink-wrapped Pack; CD-ROM | Audio Cassette; Stapled; Mixed Media | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; CD-ROM | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Trade Paper; CD-ROM; Spiral; Trade Paper | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Spiral; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; CD-ROM | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Spiral; CD-ROM; Trade Paper | Shrink-wrapped Pack; CD-ROM; Spiral; CD-ROM; Trade Paper; CD-ROM | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Spiral; Trade Paper; CD-ROM | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Trade Paper; CD-ROM; Spiral | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Spiral; Trade Paper; CD-ROM; Trade Paper | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Shrink-wrapped Pack; Trade Paper | Shrink-wrapped Pack; CD-ROM; Spiral; Trade Paper | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Spiral; Trade Cloth; CD-ROM | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Spiral; Trade Cloth; CD-ROM; Trade Paper | Trade Paper; Mixed Media; Digital, Other; Stickers | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Trade Paper; Trade Cloth | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Trade Cloth; Trade Paper; Spiral | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Trade Paper; Spiral; Trade Cloth | full buckram | half leather | quarter vellum | full leather | full cloth | three-quarter buckram | quarter buckram | full handwoven Thai silk | quarter eel skin | quarter leather | quarter skiver leather | quarter cloth | full Lorenzo vellum | half cloth | paper wrappers | full burlap | Trade Paper; Filmstrip; Mixed Media | Trade Paper; Filmstrip; Audio Cassette; Mixed Media | Mixed Media; Trade Paper; Spiral; Mixed Media | Mixed Media; E-Book; E-Book; Online Resource | Ringbound; Mixed Media; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, O | Prepack; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth | Other; Trade Paper; Mixed Media | Mixed Media; Trade Paper; Book, Other | Mixed Media; Spiral; Digital, Other | Spiral; Mixed Media; Print, Other | quarter linen | The Great Courses | Forum Quest | eBookECM | Online book | Ebook & Print | Kartoniert | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Trade Cloth | Newspaper | Mixed Media; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Trade Paper; Digital, Other | Mixed Media; Trade Paper; Print, Other; Trade Paper; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, | hand-sewn | Hardcover: Slipcase | Quantity Pack; Trade Paper; DVD-ROM | Video, 3/4 U-Matic; Trade Paper; Mixed Media | SD-Card; Audiobook | paperbook & ebook | BOOK | Folio Society Slipcase Edition | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper | Overdrive Audio | Copymasters | Wattpad Book | ebook (Wattpad) | Kindle Edition, ebook | Flexo Cover - sewed binding | Quantity Pack; Trade Paper; CD-ROM | Mixed Media; Wallchart; DVD, Audio | Other; Box or Slipcased | Mixed Media; Trade Paper; Other; Other; Other; Other; Other; Other; Other; Other; Other; Other | Financial Product | Webcomic, Webtoon | pocketbook | Mixed Media; Kit | any | Mixed Media; Cards,Flash Cards; Trade Paper | Book audio CD | Artist''s Book | Mixed Media; Trade Paper; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other | Other Format | Kindle Edition (Alternate Cover) | Sound/Noisy Book; Box or Slipcased | Picture Book; Trade Cloth | mp3 Audiobook | Picture Book; Library Binding; Picture Book | Webmanhua | Hoopla Digital | Mixed Media; Trade Cloth; Ringbound | Box or Slipcased; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth | Trade Cloth; Box or Slipcased; Picture Book; Picture Book; Picture Book; Picture Book | Box or Slipcased; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth | ebook, paperback, Kindle edition | online publication | Mixed Media; Trade Cloth; Soft Toy | Audio Drama Box Set | Serial Fiction | Faux Leather Binding | Web Toons | Ebook, paperback and hardback | Doll | Trade Cloth; Box or Slipcased; Merchandise, Other | 3.74 | MCD | Crooked Lane Books | Hogarth Press | Penguin Classics | HarperVia | Charco Press | 3.98 | Catapult | Ballantine Books | Graywolf Press | Europa Editions | Henry | Little | Tin House Books | 4.32 | Bloomsbury Publishing | 4.45 | Mixed Media; Trade Paper; LP Record | Shrink-wrapped Pack; CD-ROM; Trade Paper; Trade Paper | Shrink-wrapped Pack; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Digital, Other; Digital, Other | 1.2M, 5.25 Disk, DOS; Trade Cloth; Mixed Media | Quantity Pack; Ringbound; Trade Paper; Digital, Other | Ring binder | full vellum | quarter morocco | full marbled leather | quarter spaccato di carpa goatskin | quarter artificial leather | stiff paper cover | Integral bound | Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Prepack | Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Promotional, Other | Kindle edition | Compact Disc; Trade Paper; Prepack | ebook, Paperback | Spiral; Toy; Plush; Doll; Mixed Media | Webtoon, Webcomic, Manhwa | 22 X 20 cm | stapled chapbook | Limited Edition Hand-Stitched Chapbook | paper with photo and staple | Hand-bound | chapbook, handmade, dos-a-dos formant | Fine Press Edition | Mimeo book/side-stapled | blue wrappers (32mo oblong) | Chapbooks | chap book/e-book | hand-sewn chapbook | Japanese Stab-Bound | unbound cards w/ envelope | Softbound | E-Text | N/A | Choose One | Spiral Binding | full leather (goatskin) | Calf-Binding | Capa flexível | CD-ROM; Trade Paper; Quantity Pack | Box or Slipcased; Digest Paperback; Digest Paperback; Digest Paperback | Radio play | Digital text | digital | Hardcover 1st. edition | Audio ebook | Boxset | Trade Paper; Big Book; Mixed Media | full blue cloth | quarter crimson morocco | quarter bonded leather | full crimson silk | Trade Cloth; Mixed Media; DVD-ROM | Other; Other; Mixed Media | Encuadernación en vinilo | Digital Audio | Indbundet | Trade Cloth; E-Book | Comic Strip | Compact Disc; Trade Paper; Mixed Media; Print, Other | Comb-bound | Comb-bound photocopy | unbound | Comb-bound paper | photocopy | paper booklet | Photocopy in plastic binder | 3-ring binder | spiral bound | paper, loose sheets | paper, loose sheet | paper, hand stitched | Spiral bound card stock | ring binder | Livre de poche | Simili-cuir | Trade Paper; Kit; Mixed Media | Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Prepack | Script | Microfilm, Other | Trade Cloth; Trade Cloth; Mixed Media; DVD-ROM | full green cloth | Mixed Media; Trade Cloth; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, | Quantity Pack; Pamphlet | Saddle Stapled | Brochado | 15 x 23 cm | Promotional, Other; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper | Whitepaper | Trade Paper; Mixed Media; DVD-ROM | Trade Cloth; Mixed Media; DVD, Audio | Ebook with Audio/Video | Interactive novel | Novel-memoir | Quantity Pack; Children''s Board Books; Children''s Board Books; Children''s Board Books; Children''s Board Books | Trade Cloth; Counterpack Filled | Web Comic | Online Text | CD-ROM; Trade Paper; Mixed Media; Book, Other | Trade Cloth; Tape Reel (Audio, not computer tape); Mixed Media | HCDJ | full red cloth | full crimson cloth | full vellum with yapped edges | full crimson morocco | quarter sheepskin | full niger goatskin | full off-white goatskin | Part-In-Omnibus | One-shot | Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Box or Slipcased | Lesezeichen | Trade Paper; Mixed Media; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, Other; Print, | Online Short Story in Magazine | Mixed Media; Print, Other; Trade Paper; Print, Other; Print, Other | Manwhua | Video course | 4 volume set | Apple eBbook | brossura | Quantity Pack; Children''s Board Books | Children''s Board Books; Counterpack Filled | Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Quantity Pack | letterpres

16timspalding
Dec 2, 2022, 11:12am

There's some non-Latin in there that my paste didn't preserve.

17bnielsen
Dec 2, 2022, 12:28pm

I like: "Noisy Book" :-) And of course: Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; Trade Paper; (Eggs and Spam?).
Thanks for sharing!

18abbottthomas
Dec 3, 2022, 5:38am

>15 timspalding: Who'd have thought it!

19timspalding
Dec 3, 2022, 9:26am

Speaking of the LibraryThing Media Taxonomy, does anyone want to suggest where "Podcast" should go?

https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/The_LibraryThing_Media_Taxonomy

20lilithcat
Dec 3, 2022, 9:37am

>19 timspalding:

Sound recording: digital file: podcast

Though I believe some are also video recordings, in which case, videorecording: digital file: podcast

21Bookmarque
Edited: Dec 3, 2022, 9:47am

Podcasts are a container or a method of delivery for me these days. Originally they were all basically informational and I think that’s how a lot of people still think about them even now. However Podcasts these days include wholly fictional content and so for me I’d roll up the content into one of our existing categories. For example John McWhorter’s linguistic Podcast, Lexicon Valley, would go under non-fiction, and possibly science and nature, but the format would be Pocast if you want to differentiate under the Sound Recordings list. Right now I’d have to stick with streaming. However Podcast implies an episodic delivery whereas streaming could be a single item or episodic. An Audible Original Podcast I’ve been listening to is similar to a radio drama and is completely fictional so I’d put it under fiction and then mystery, but I’d choose Podcast for the format if it existed. As it is now I think I have it under streaming.

22norabelle414
Dec 3, 2022, 10:36am

I'm not sure podcast should be its own category. The only thing that differentiates an mp3 of music from an mp3 of podcast is the content, right? It's the same format.

Maybe there could be categories for the format of the podcast, like is it a short form (10 episodes and nothing more), seasonal (10 episodes once a year), ongoing (one episode per week for many years, unfinished), completed (one episode per week, finished)

I've cataloged one podcast and it was of the "short form" format, more like an audiobook in 10 parts. I used "sound recording - streaming". I don't catalog any other sound recordings so I didn't feel strongly that I needed to separate it.

23MarthaJeanne
Dec 3, 2022, 10:51am

>21 Bookmarque: Fiction and nonfiction are genre types not media types.

24Bookmarque
Dec 3, 2022, 10:52am

Yes, I know that. I was referring to putting the content in that category and using Podcast as a format.

25timspalding
Dec 3, 2022, 11:50am

There's a general problem with audiobooks from audible and such. I'm calling them Book > Audiobook > Digital file (1.2.1). There is no streaming option, but in fact people don't necessarily download the audiobook.

That's also the problem here. Are podcasts files you download to your phone/computer? Often. But you often stream them instead.

26r.orrison
Dec 3, 2022, 11:58am

Book > Audiobook > Digital file makes sense to me for an audiobook. It's a digital file, whether it's downloaded to your phone or sits on someone's server and is streamed to your phone. Granted, an audio book on CD is also a digital file, but I think the point of the digital file category would be that it has no fixed physical location/format.

>24 Bookmarque: Content seems completely irrelevant to a discussion about media formats.

(As an aside, https://wiki.librarything.com/ seems to be down at the moment so I can't see the proposed taxonomy.)

27Bookmarque
Dec 3, 2022, 12:19pm

Oy vey. I'll delete it if it's too complex to follow. Honestly.

28norabelle414
Dec 3, 2022, 12:36pm

I kind of use "streaming" for any files that I don't use outside of the app/program I accessed them from. Like if I downloaded an episode of a Netflix show to watch on a plane I would still consider that "streaming", or if I download an album from Spotify to listen to offline. There is probably a way to access those files once I've downloaded them to my device but I'm not savvy (nor interested) enough to do so so they might as well be streaming.

29timspalding
Dec 3, 2022, 12:38pm

>26 r.orrison:

Is the wiki still down for you? It's not for me.

30r.orrison
Dec 3, 2022, 1:48pm

> 29
I'm still getting this:

"Try Again" doesn't help. Main site (e.g. Talk) is working fine.

31CtrSacredSciences
Dec 3, 2022, 2:22pm

>20 lilithcat: Some podcasts come in both formats audio and video, leaving the user to decide which way they want to access.

32gilroy
Dec 4, 2022, 6:12am

I almost feel like Podcast should be an upper level of the taxonomy.
More like Paper Book.

Because a podcast can be so many different things now

Podcast > Audio > streaming
Podcast > Video > Digital File

Just as two examples

33Nevov
Dec 4, 2022, 10:11pm

I'm not sure being a podcast tells you enough in and of itself to be a media item. It could be streamed, or a digital file, or if you put it onto a CD, or a DVD, for archiving, then that is the media. Podcast rather more seems to describe the nature of the work, rather than the physical (or non-) that the item takes.

(For comparison, novel/novella/short story – all forms of book, but not items in the taxonomy)

34r.orrison
Edited: Dec 5, 2022, 3:31am

I mostly listen to short stories in podcast format, but also quite a few novellas, and even a few (serialized) novels. Usually I'll download the podcast episodes in Overcast, but sometimes I'll stream other episodes of the exact same podcast in the same app if I haven't downloaded it. I use "Book > Audiobook > Podcast" in my own catalog.

If I did download and archive onto some physical media, I might use "Book > Audiobook > CD", but maybe not because it still would have the episodic nature of the original podcast.

Here's a diversion: What should the media type of Absolutely MAD be? It's not a video, but the only DVD listed in the taxonomy is "Video Recording > DVD". Is it still a magazine?

(timspalding - the wiki is working now for me)

35lcl999
Dec 9, 2022, 11:40pm

Thanks Tim for that huge long list of media descriptions. Notable by their absence are "Section" and "Signature". Also "Sewn" is qualified to be "hand-sewn" and the like.

36MyopicBookworm
Dec 11, 2022, 4:32pm

When I worked at a publisher, some years ago, even then there were three categories: paperback, hardback, and flexicover, which meant a bendy plastic cover, typically used for high-usage, lightweight books such as pocket dictionaries.

37AndreasJ
Dec 12, 2022, 3:59am

>36 MyopicBookworm:

So that's what they're called. I've got a number of dictionaries with those covers, and I've occasionally idly wondered what you'd call them. Thanks :)

38lorax
Dec 12, 2022, 10:17am

It's field guides for me, but yeah. I've been calling them paperback because they're clearly not hardcover, but it's good to know there's a real term for them!