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1CurrerBell
Christians write fantasy. Jews write sci-fi. Interesting article in the Jewish Review of Books.
2kmaziarz
Mrr? Seriously? That seems like a ridiculous premise for an article. To state that there are no Jewish fantasy authors? Um. Jane Yolen? Peter Beagle? Neil Gaiman?
Here's an interesting article discussing/refuting the one you linked to, btw...the comment thread is worth reading.
Here's an interesting article discussing/refuting the one you linked to, btw...the comment thread is worth reading.
3SophieCale
I didn't go through all the comments, but I did read most of the articles and the whole thing has me pretty confused.
The generalization is huge, which is why I think so many people instantly balk at it.
I can sorta see his point about there being no "profoundly jewish" works of fantasy. But I think he mistakenly believes High Fantasy to be almost exclusively influenced by Christianity's idea of good and evil. Before Tolkien and Lewises High Fantasy, we had the epics, Gilgamesh, Arjuna, Sun Wukong, Cu Chulainn, etc.
I don't mean to step on the toes of anyone's beliefs, but many of the stories in the Bible itself were influenced/based on some of these epics. So to say that the traditional plot structures of High Fantasy are overwhelmingly christian is a bit, well, fast.
Weingrad was looking for a LACK of "Jewish themed" fantasy, and so he found it. But thats easy to do when nobody seems to even know what a "Jewish themed" fantasy IS. =/
The generalization is huge, which is why I think so many people instantly balk at it.
I can sorta see his point about there being no "profoundly jewish" works of fantasy. But I think he mistakenly believes High Fantasy to be almost exclusively influenced by Christianity's idea of good and evil. Before Tolkien and Lewises High Fantasy, we had the epics, Gilgamesh, Arjuna, Sun Wukong, Cu Chulainn, etc.
I don't mean to step on the toes of anyone's beliefs, but many of the stories in the Bible itself were influenced/based on some of these epics. So to say that the traditional plot structures of High Fantasy are overwhelmingly christian is a bit, well, fast.
Weingrad was looking for a LACK of "Jewish themed" fantasy, and so he found it. But thats easy to do when nobody seems to even know what a "Jewish themed" fantasy IS. =/
4atiara
I'm a religious Jew and yes, I haven't read much Jewish fantasy, but there's definitely an element of Jewish culture that makes you more receptive to fantasy. (As opposed to actually writing it.)
I've thought about this before and think that because a lot of fantasy (and sci-fi too) deals with our heroes all miraculously controlling the fate of the world, there's a deep phobia of presenting ourselves in that role of fantasy hero, even in fantasy, because of our history of being accused of manipulating world events. Asimov did the groups-controlling-the-world thing, but they weren't Jewish.
I've thought about this before and think that because a lot of fantasy (and sci-fi too) deals with our heroes all miraculously controlling the fate of the world, there's a deep phobia of presenting ourselves in that role of fantasy hero, even in fantasy, because of our history of being accused of manipulating world events. Asimov did the groups-controlling-the-world thing, but they weren't Jewish.
5bjza
If the argument is Jews don't write fantasy, that clearly fails. But if it's that they don't write high fantasy, there might be a solid case to be made.
High fantasy - which is what Weingrad picks for examples of fantasy in general - is a specific genre of its own. It's typically about heroes destined for greatness and the restoration of order, full of sincerity and a longing for a golden age where good was good, evil was evil, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were... well, you know.
Generally speaking, these aren't themes you find in Jewish literature (without irony) - or in the literature of groups in similar historical and political positions (like first and second generation immigrants of all nationalities, the politically oppressed, or other religious/cultural outsiders). When you note how many groups don't write high fantasy, it ceases to be a mystery. The dominant narrative of the status quo is heroic, but the narrative of the cultural outsider is picaresque - which is by definition not high fantasy.
Of all the counter examples that have been proposed, I think Gaiman's Sandman comes closest to high fantasy - but this is a work which twists fantasy conceits to comment upon them. The Sandman isn't about the return of the king in the Tolkien way; it's about the king having to decide between tradition and change, between being kingly and being human - and the punishments he receives for choosing the former too often. If you look at a story like "A Game of You," it becomes clear that writing a Jewish Narnia isn't ever going to be high on Gaiman's to do list.
High fantasy - which is what Weingrad picks for examples of fantasy in general - is a specific genre of its own. It's typically about heroes destined for greatness and the restoration of order, full of sincerity and a longing for a golden age where good was good, evil was evil, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were... well, you know.
Generally speaking, these aren't themes you find in Jewish literature (without irony) - or in the literature of groups in similar historical and political positions (like first and second generation immigrants of all nationalities, the politically oppressed, or other religious/cultural outsiders). When you note how many groups don't write high fantasy, it ceases to be a mystery. The dominant narrative of the status quo is heroic, but the narrative of the cultural outsider is picaresque - which is by definition not high fantasy.
Of all the counter examples that have been proposed, I think Gaiman's Sandman comes closest to high fantasy - but this is a work which twists fantasy conceits to comment upon them. The Sandman isn't about the return of the king in the Tolkien way; it's about the king having to decide between tradition and change, between being kingly and being human - and the punishments he receives for choosing the former too often. If you look at a story like "A Game of You," it becomes clear that writing a Jewish Narnia isn't ever going to be high on Gaiman's to do list.
6aaronpotter
Bjza, could the theory also be that because 'High Fantasy' relies on a heroic 'savior' figure, it lends itself well to Christian themes of inborn destiny, chosen status, redemption through sacrifice, etc? Certainly Christ-like figures abound in high-fantasy lit.
I don't find Gaiman's fantasy very friendly to either Christian or Jewish paradigms. American Gods, Good Omens, and Neverwhere would be obvious examples.
I don't find Gaiman's fantasy very friendly to either Christian or Jewish paradigms. American Gods, Good Omens, and Neverwhere would be obvious examples.

