Summer Sale?

Has anyone heard when the summer sale is going to start? I emailed someone a few days ago but haven't heard back.

Not too soon, I hope. I'm still making payments on prior purchases, and hope that I've timed it so they are paid off in time to go back into debt to FS during the Summer sale.

Os.

I believe the summer sale started about mid June last year so it should begin within the next two week period.

Thanks :)

I can tell from my order history that the Folio sale started on Saturday 27 June last year. My best guess is that it will kick of on Saturday 26th this year.

Not long to go - I am holding back on all Folio purchases until the sale kicks in.

Last summer's thread from these boards starts with a report of the sale showing on June 16th in the US.

My heart is a-quiver with anticipation!

My first summer sale order last year was on June 17th, then another one on June 22 and so on and so on..............

> 6, 7

I must have got it wrong - I thought I had bought books on the first day of the sale last year. But I joined only the week before so the 27th was probably the earliest date on which I could access the sale. Any day now then !!!!!

I spoke to someone at The Folio Society today and since I was speaking to them anyway I asked if the summer sale would start soon; I was told that the literature for the sale is being sent to members now and that it should show up on the website within the next few days.

Good news - thanks Atheistic.

>9 Atheistic:
I have a feeling this group is going to see a spike in postings pretty soon.

Os.

My guess was today, Tue...

I just finished paying off my last round of books and am itching to go into debt again.

I'm still waiting on books from the last sale so don't plan to buy more until those arrive.

I'm freezing my fingers off down here in Terra Australis so the very thought of a 'Summer' sale would be welcome to me. I don't dance but I'd love to be invited to the party!

Having just run my car into a tree in a parking lot and getting an estimate of $2000 for the body work, I am hoping that the Summer Sale is NOT tempting ... :)

>17 FionaCat:

I'm sorry, Fiona, but your, er, incident made me laugh out loud. How on earth did you manage to hit a tree in a parking lot?!

At any rate, though I am sorry to hear about the car, I do hope you're okay!

I was pulling into a parking space and the car accelerated. I'm not sure if I hit the gas instead of the brake or what. I felt like a complete fool but at least the tree and I are fine. The car has cosmetic damage, nothing major. And before anyone asks, no I do not drive a Toyota! :) It is a Saturn.

Glad you're OK too, your, er, incident and its' possible effect upon Summer Sale purchases brings to mind the idea of........Folio insurance........to help pay for those necessary volumes when life's vicissitudes interfere........up to ten times a year!(or at least twice;)

Saturn makes... or is that made, good cars.
My friend had a Saturn that lasted for 17 years with hardly a problem. He finally had to get a new car, and now he's got a Prius. At any rate, at least no one (tree included) got hurt. Despite the accident... I do hope the Summer Sale is tempting :D

cheers,

-astropi

Just out of curiosity and perhaps to anticipate, as I was not a member yet then, does anyone remember what the last Summer Sale deal was?

> 22 Discounts, many rather substantial, on quite a wide range of titles.

I just found the Summer Sale brochure yesterday while tidying up my drawers. It offers more than 100 books and says on the front All books HALF PRICE (including the Kelmscott Chaucer). And the brass bookmark.

Edited to be more precise: Last year's brochure!

23,24: Thanks a lot, looking forward to the Sale already. Hmm... looks like TFS has already succeeded in conditioning me in the deepest Pavlovian sense.

Hi overthemoon!

I could have waited until the summer sale starts showing in the website but I just can't wait anymore. By any chance could you see if "The Pharaos" and "Pagans and and Chiristians" are included in the summer sale? How much are they?

Thank you supercell! I guess I'll have to put off buying it until renewal. Had it been offered at 50% off, I'm prepared to plead temporary insanity and purchase it right away. =)

yes, I was, sorry - I should be more precise rather than posting without thinking!

29 postings already - and it hasn't even started!!!

Let's round it up to 30.

>31 StunnedTuna:
No, that makes it 31!

Ooops! Now it's 32!

Ooops!

Can't even 'round it down to 30' now.

They are waiting to see if they will have to up all their prices by 17.5% to 20% from midnight.

(Tongue in cheek, but given the doom and gloom that we are being prepared for...)

>37 HuxleyTheCat:

Well, the hike would be from 0% to 17.5% or 20%, as books are currently VAT-free in the UK. We'll see in a little over an hour...

It's on! 50% off many books and a FREE Folio address book.

Not showing on my computer yet. What are some of the best offers?

I have to buy some full priced books to complete a commitment. I don't want to buy something that's going to be on sale for 50% off. Can anyone tell me if Jan Morris's Venice, Reay Tannahill's Food in History or Suetonius The Twelve Caesars is on sale?

Venice - 50%
Food in History - 50%
Twelve Caesars - not on sale.

Also The Wit of Oscar Wilde is 50% off. Does that make him a half-wit now?

>41 justjim:

Thanks Jim.

One more request. What about Xenophon Persian Expedition, the Cretan Runner, Bierce Realm of the Unreal and Folio Poets Wordsworth?

Excellent - thanks.

>38 leonb: No change for now then, and cheaper cider!

Lots of temptation in the sale, as anticipated. Must write 100 times "austerity = restraint".

Only a few of the books I'd be interested in appear in the sale. Just as well, I suppose...

Does the range tend to change / increase?

Well, I'm breathing a sigh of relief - I was determined not to buy anything from the summer sale, and having just gone through the lists I am sure that I can manage that.

I am now waiting for renewal time (though I suspect Ebay will tempt me from time to time!)

Sale is visible in BC, Canada.
Happy to report I purchased 2 of LT's top 3 recommendations for me; Birdsong and Midnight's Children.

First order made, Children's Bible Stories and The English Language. The address book looks lovely, once again a useful gift.

Finally! Just placed my first order:

Colour
The Face of Battle
A Face to the World
The Folio Book of Historic Speeches
A History of the Indians of the United States
Midnight’s Children

Here is my second order:

The Consolation of Philosophy
The Oregon Trail
The Stones of Venice
The Spanish Inquisition
Shakespeare's Life & World

>47 RMMee: I agree - little if anything to tempt, so bank balance looks safer than usual. Personally, I think the sale looks really dull this year, but that may simply be that pretty much anything in the sale I might have wanted, I've already got (mostly through previous sales or offers). But then, there arent' many that come into that category either.

I plonked 10 titles in the shopping basket, knocked it down to a more reasonable 6, and will wait until after pay day to place the order. Christmas presents are being taken care of and there are a couple of titles which I wanted but had marked up in my little black book as "wait for a decent sale". I'm very happy that The Seeing Stone has been included as I would have bought that at 20% discount. The big and beautiful Natural History of Selbourne is a bargain at £62.50 but is already in my collection.

Does membership reset for everyone in the fall?
I'm already a dead man for buying books during this sale.

A few nice books for sale, such as the Folio Poets Tennyson :)
As already mentioned, the Natural History of Selborne looks amazing. I understand that the FS had issued a couple editions of Selborne years ago, but I also understand they're not nearly as beautiful as this one...

cheers,

-astropi

#53
Huxley, you might be interested in knowing that FS will soon be publishing the other two books in Crossley-Holland's Arthur Trilogy, At the Crossing-Places and King of the Middle March. Because I had purchased The Seeing Stone they sent me a letter advising of the new publications and offering me a 20% discount when they come out. Of course I took them up on it right away. Hopefully you will get the same offer.

Right, my first order consisted of;

1 x Sir Gawain and the Green Knight @ £18.45
1 x The Hobbit @ £11.45
1 x The Screwtape Letters @ £11.45
1 x To Kill a Mockingbird @ £11.45
1 x A Vindication of the Rights of Woman @ £13.95

I'm pretty unimpressed with the selection like everyone else here, and I'm a relatively new member so its not even that I already have all the books on offer! I think my problem lies in the fact that I want so many of the books published recently that were never going to be in the sale. Now do I hold out and hope the likes of Bede and Robin Hood come round next sale time or bite the bullet and buy them now....

Tastes differ! :) I'm excited about this sale, and have more books there I'd like to buy than in the other sales of the last two years.

I need advice :) Here's a list of everything I'd *like* to get, and I need to get it down to, say, four, five books? The trouble is, I haven't read any of those, so I'd appreciate your help.

The New York Trilogy
Slaughterhouse-Five
Travels in West Africa
The Hobbit (- the only one that I have and have read from the list. I'd like it for the illustrations)
The Seeing Stone
To Kill a Mockingbird
Possession
Master and Commander
The Language Instinct (- is it any good?)
The Natural History of Selbourne (- we can cross this out, as I could get 4-5 books for the price, and money is of the essence right now)
The Art of War
The Double-Cross System
Schindler's Ark

All over the map, as you see. The one I'm definitely taking is Slaughterhouse-Five, so I need help choosing 3-4 books more.

>58 BorisG: I bought The New York Trilogy during the summer sale last year and I am very pleased with it. I like the unusual oblong format and in my opinion the illustrations fit the book rather well. As far as the stories are concerned I found them interesting enough to devour the book in just on day.

Even though I’ve already placed two orders, I have to agree that this year’s summer sale is a bit uninspiring. It seems that a large number of the books have been on sale during the last summer, winter and spring sales. But maybe I was more excited last year since I had just joined FS and almost every book in the sale back then looked interesting to me. I hope that they will add some more exciting offers during the course of the sale.
I might be more selective in my buying practice this year, but my hunger for beautiful books has surely increased during the last twelve months…..

So, old hands, how long does this sale last? Do we get warning before it ends? I've put a few things in my basket, but haven't ordered yet.

My basket currently includes the two outstanding O'Brians (the ones that weren't in my introductory offer) because someone here said that prices go up after the summer sale. I'm also thinking of Colour (I'm a keen photographer) and possibly another book on cookery.

I'll let you know the final order when I commit.

>60 justjim: Last year the summer sale started around June 16th and I placed my last order on August 7th.

Thanks. I might just let another pay day or two swing past before I press the 'checkout' button.

I ordered a copy of Tennyson this morning.

Not a whole lot to tempt me. I was hoping a few of the Nonesuch Dickens would be part of the sale. I might give in and order the Raj Quartet before it ends...

>60 justjim: Oh, it will go on and on, and you'll receive a couple of reminders before the sale ends. The only problem with waiting is the niggling worry that the books you want will sell out.

>63 JamesIII: I don't think I've ever seen the Nonesuch Dickens marked down by more than £5.

D*mm*t History of the Crusades not included :P

torn between the raj quartet (which I'll hardly get otherwise) or some fiction I happen to need badly .. The New York Trilogy, Remains of the day ..The good soldier..

Pears Cyclopedia seems an interesting book, couldn't resist, so I grabbed a copy. Never saw it before actually.

I put several in my basket but am going to wait till I get the brochure before hitting Send.

>58 BorisG:
Hi Boris
I may not be the most reliable critic from your point of view, as the one book on that list that I definitely would NOT buy (of the ones I know) is Slaughterhouse Five, which I thought a load of dr*ss! However, FWIW:
The Seeing Stone is an outstanding children's book that can be enjoyed by adults (it's one that I strongly recommend to the better readers in my year group at top end primary, who do enjoy older reading.
To Kill A Mockingbird is comfortably one of my favourite all time top 5 reads - as it is for many of the reading group I belong to. Only read it a couple of years ago on the recommendation of my 18-year old son, and am so glad I did!
Master and Commander: the Aubrey series is wonderful - you'll need to enjoy really high quality historical fiction.
The Language Instinct is one of my favourite science reads - lapped it up one Christmas some 15 years or so ago when it first came out. Yes it is good!
Possession: there are mixed feelings about this. I loved this, and love the edition.
Don't know the rest that well. Sorry - there are no definite 'avoids'. I have all those books mentioned, other than Language Instinct, simply because I have a hardback first edition, so don't want/need an FS edition particularly.
Hope that helps though.

>58 BorisG:

Boris, I am going to recommend To Kill a Mockingbird as well. Yes, I am biased, as I just ordered it for myself, but then again, I also just finished reading a paperback copy the other day and it was simply lovely. I don't think you'd regret getting this one.

Thanks a lot for the advice, Stephan, Willoyd and beatlemoon.

Willoyd, I've decided to drop Slaughterhouse Five, too. I think I wanted to get it because it is a Very Famous Book, and not because of a particular love of Vonnegut (and I don't like the FS illustrations so much). So, that's off the list. I've also removed the WWII books (I've just got Evans' three volume History of the Third Reich, which is great and should suffice for the time being), and a few others.

I'll follow the advice on To Kill a Mockingbird and The New York Trilogy (I remember many here on the forum being impressed by the edition) and I'll get Possession too, as it's a book I long wanted to read (and I don't mind the illustrations). Which leaves a choice between The Language Instinct and Master and Commander (or nothing, which is also a choice - and a money-saving one!). What do you think? Both are appealing (though, I must admit, neither is extremely appealing as a FS edition), and I suppose I'll get both in the future, so it's more of a question of which one to get *now*.

Well, that's really down to your taste; historical fiction versus science non-fiction. Myself, I would buy M&C, and am actually buying the series as a priority. But that's me!

>58 BorisG: Depending on whether you like Paul Auster's style (quite dry and enigmatic) New York Trilogy could be a good buy; it's an excellent production, extended oblong shape (think skyscraper) and with superb, fitting illustrations - one of the best of the last couple years, up there with The Remains of the Day and Songlines). PS It's been selling for a lot more than the sale price on eBay!!

Like others here I'm initially attracted to Slaughterhouse-Five but not sure I want to spring for this edition. Can anyone who already has it comment on its quality?

Also, any strong opinions for or against Procopius's The Secret History?

Splurged a bit as this was the first Folio sale I've ordered from.

Ordered these for my wife:
Children's Bible Stories
The Remains of the Day
The Secret Garden

Ordered these for myself:
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
The Oregon Trail
The Analects

and the Mark Twain treasury as a joint interest.

#73
I bought Slaughterhouse Five at full price and I'm not disappointed with it. In fact, I'm pretty damn happy with it. If you can excuse the complete lack of evidence: I like the drawings, the paper seems thick, and the font readable. Now, I haven't actually read this copy yet, but I have had it out of the slipcase on two occasions.
In the spirit of enabling; if you like the book, I strongly suspect you will enjoy this edition.

> 73

I really didn't like the content of the Procopius. It's a nice folio production but the writing itself I think gets swallowed in its own vindictiveness and malice, but with no humour to leaven it. There is no timeline in the book itself. I suspect it might read better in the context of Procopius's official history (i.e. like Gibbon's footnotes) but it didn't do much for me as a read.

Well, today was pay-day so I hit the button.

Surgeon's Mate & Fortune of War - both full (but current) price. Do you think that they will really increase. Will the future volumes increase in price?
Colour 50%
Summer Cooking 50%
And an address book which, being an über-techno geek, I'll have no use for. Well that's (76-YO) Mother's Christmas present taken care of!

I'm not too impressed by the sale but jumped at the Tennyson, this Folio Poets series is really well presented. The Yeats I have is a beautiful book and if this is half a nice I will be very happy.

>63 JamesIII: even though the dickens Nonesuch are not part of the sale I got a flyer a couple of weeks ago offering all of the editions at a reduced price , I bought 2 at £44.95 each which is about £10.00 each less than last advertised.

By all I mean those still in print, unfortunately I have let a few get away that are no longer available.

>73 mboudreau: I have this edition and read it a couple of years back. The design is great, the illustrations are terrific, the paper is wonderful. As long as you like Vonnegut (and I do), I strongly recommend.

Having restrained myself in the Spring sale (although an umbrella or two might have been useful), I ordered today:

Blake
I've had my eye on this for some time.

The Country Child
I still enjoy good children's books, and hints of incipient grandchildren have been in the air for a while.

The Seeing Stone
I love a good Arthurian tale.

The Persian Wars
Reminds me that wars are the great constant of history, despite quotes like "Mine is the first generation able to contemplate the possibility that we may live our entire lives without going to war or sending our children to war", attributed to Tony Blair. (What planet is he on?)

P.S. I don't want to start another political argument!

> 56 Thanks Haniwitch. I was in the Members' Room a couple of weeks ago and saw At the Crossing Places - I did a double take as there is no mention of it on the website. They have made a really good job of these, which are much nicer in reality than is indicated on the website. Hopefully the two final vols of the trilogy will be advertised in time for renewal.

#83
And thanks right back to you Huxley. The letter they sent me didn't give a publication date so it's nice to know that at least one of the new books is actually in the Members' Room. Hopefully that means they'll be sending it out soon, although I don't know why I'm so anxious to get them as I haven't even read The Seeing Stone yet. My backlog grew enornously during the last sale and now I've been distracted by Beowulf so I probably still won't have read The Seeing Stone by the time I have both of the other books on my shelf.

There doesn't appear to be a great deal of interest in the summer sale this year; at least not so far. I myself am trying to exercise some restraint but I have ordered "The Natural History of Selborne". I have been wanting that volume since it first appeared on the website sometime last year.

I was hoping that all the Folio Poet volumes would be at the sale price but only the Tennyson is and I already have that one. I called the Society to see if a substitution would be possible but was told no.

> 85 Atheistic, The Natural History of Selbourne is a real beauty and I'm sure that you will be pleased with it.

Like you I was hoping for the remaining Folio Poets to all be discounted - I have Wordsworth but want Tennyson and Yeats (for the Brockway illustrations). I'm happy enough that one of the two is there as that saves a bit of cash. A few weeks ago I was told that the available copies of these three are in the hundreds and when they are gone they are gone, so if you are contemplating a purchase of either Wordsworth or Yeats then it's probably best not to leave it too long.

Edited for typo.

Every time I think I can resist the sale, I hear a book mentioned here and back again I go to take another look to see what I'm missing. I had removed the Tennyson from my cart after second thoughts, but now I'm having third thoughts.

Even though I'm trying to resist, I plunk titles into my cart periodically. The ones that have made it and stayed, so far, are:
The Hobbit
Arabian Sands
Food in History
Travels in West Africa

I don't understand why they've made the Dawkins books a set order. I already have one of them and would have bought the other two separately. Or at least one of them anyways.

Huxley:

I may have asked this somewhere on another thread a while ago but can you tell me what the binding is on "The Natural History of Selborne"? That is the front binding...is it cloth?

In my cart, I have Summer Food, The Secret History, and The Consolation of Philosophy. I'm making myself wait a week or so (cooling-off period) before I pull the trigger. I'm also really tempted by the Dawkins set, but I haven't read the books yet and am not sure whether I'll like them enough to be happy to have spent $80 on them. They look so pretty, though! Has anyone here read them? Are they more science-y or more religion-is-the-root-of-all-evil-y?

Overall, I am less enthused about this Summer Sale than I was about last years. Fewer books that I want, I suppose, or at least fewer that I'm willing to spend the money on. Also, there is no fantastic-deal-80%-off books like last summer (the Folio 60, The Voyce of the World, etc).

> 90

Good points. Less discount, fewer choices. Compared to last summer, it is underwhelming.

jfetting:

i google a lot of the books and then read a portion of them online to see whether they are to my taste or not. I did that with "The Natural History of Selborne" and realized that I will really enjoy it. I also googled Dawkins "Unweaving The Rainbow' and from what I read of it there I think it is another book I will enjoy...very readable. It's on my list but Selborne trumped it this time.

92> I haven't read Unweaving yet, but just finished the greatest Show by RD. Great read.

93 I've only read The God Delusion by Dawkins so far and thoroughly enjoyed it

>94 Atheistic:

The god Delusion is a great book which deals with the arguments around whether or not a god exists.

The Greatest Show on earth debunks the 'creationists' or ID theorists who deny evolution.

The beauty of the book is the way in which it shows that the evidence is everywhere around us. You don't need to dig around looking for the jawbone the 'missing link' as there are no missing links.

>90 jfetting: These are science, and very good.

Does anybody own a copy of Walden? I am considering ordering it from the sale, but would like to know if it is worth its price.

>97 CatherineM:

I own a copy of the book, though unfortunately not the FS edition!

Great book. Really resonated with me.

> 89 Atheistic, the illustrated pat of the binding is paper whilst the plain part (spine and rear board) is cloth. I posted some images here last year, so I'll repost - please feel free to indulge:

http://s901.photobucket.com/albums/ac220/HuxleyTheCat/Natural%20History%20of%20S...

The password is my username here.

One thing that the images don't show is the scale of the book - it's a hefty old tome measuring 13" x 10" x 2" without the slipcase; so you can see that the font size is nice and large and there is plenty of space on the page.

Surprisingly the summer sale has disappeared for me when I checked today. I was able to place two orders earlier this week. Maybe FS has been listening to the complains about the summer sale and they are updating the offer?

Thanks for the comments, all. I think I'll be adding the Dawkins set.

>98 LesMiserables:

Thank you! I think I would enjoy it - I am just not sure if it is worth splurging for this particular edition!

Thanks Huxley!!!!

>100 Stephan68: Stephan68 I've got the same problem. I sent a web enquiry to the Folio Society through their website. They've responded with the following:

'It sounds like this is a glitch with the website - I have reported this to our web team and the problem should be sorted in the next couple of days.'

Of course an updated offer would be wonderful too.

>104 buckram: Thanks for the information buckram!

>97 CatherineM:
Walden is a really wonderful book. I bought the Folio edition at the full price of 99-something and found it over prized. But at half price it's a perfect choice. The photographs are beautifully duo tone printed. I especially liked the silk sides... Gorgeous book!

I received the Summer Sale brochure a couple of days ago and finally decided to go for the Kelmscott Chaucer at £ 150 plus £ 16 S&H.
What attracts me most at this edition is it's huge size: 16¾" x 11½"!

I also ordered:
John Adams @ GBP 14.95
The Natural History of Selborne @ GBP 62.50
The Stones of Venice @ GBP 17.45
Venice (by Jan Morris) @ GBP 18.45

Needless to say that I'm really excited by this Summer Sale!

well, I ordered:
Colour
Birdsong
At the Back of the North Wind

I think it's a good sale - the Kelmscott Chaucer, Selborne, the Nesbit books, Walden, the Raj Quartet... all half price, big savings there!

I am considering The Natural History of Selborne, as well as the Kelmscott Chaucer. I would love to find out from any of you who own them or have seen them what you think. Any observations would be greatly appreciated.

>94 Atheistic:, 95

I hope FS decides to publish the God Delusion

>111 ironjaw:

My gut feeling is that they are planning to publish a full set of his writings. They announced already that The Selfish Gene is planned for the next membership year.

Are the three Dawkins' books on the website the only ones they have published so far?

Dawkins is presumably a pretty good scientist, but his religious philosophy is infantile. As an atheist myself I find nothing new or original in his arguments, but his tone and urgency with the obvious grates. Snippets I've looked at from the God Delusion confirmed what I'd gleaned from his numerous TV outings - shallow adolescent rant, weirdly angry. I'm curious about his scientific writings, but put off by his "style".

Dawkins is great on Darwin, but I have to agree with leonb and Rochefoucauld that his ranting is completely above and beyond the call of duty and a complete turn-off. For me, it diminishes his "authority" as a respected scientist.

Evangelicals of any stripe bore me...unless of course it's of a literary theme in which case I too have been prone to preach (to anyone kind or just plain bored enough gto listen) the gospel of Melville or Twain or Steinbeck or...

> 113. And you accuse Dawkins of behaving in an adolescent manner? Two or three episodes of South Park was enough for me... :-)

Couldn't stand the allure of the sale any longer. Ordered:

Kelmscott Chaucer
Natural History of Selbourne
The Hobbit
Possession
The Realms of the Unreal

Unfortunately for my finances the men in the little white coats never showed up...

I've got a white lab coat. Let me know when your books arrive. ;)

121 - RE -- "The Realms of the Unreal." For a split second you had me excited that FS had published Henry Darger, but alas it was Bierce's The Realm of the Unreal.

Dawkins is ok. I don't find him evangelist generally, even though I disagree with some of his points (I'd probably be classed as more of an accommodationist atheist). He doesn't need to make original arguments, just to broadcast them and make them accessible; in my mind, his role is more of a middle-man than a producer. For those popularizing pseudo-philosophers/theologians, it's often the case that they make the same arguments again and again, just to get the word out, and I can see how if you follow all of his work it can become mind-numbing; but again, I don't think it's his role to formulate new and astounding concepts to satisfy those of us familiar with all the usual religious questions and answers (and probably most of his arguments I find to be cogent, if basic). The thing is, because atheism has been relatively unorganized, this sort of aggressive atheism, characterized by the likes of Dawkins and PZ Myers, is justified in one sense in my eyes: to give those of like mind a transitory focal point. If atheism were already well established (relative to the world's major religions), their voices would be much more grating to my ears.

As for the God Delusion, it was something I read four years ago while starting college, and I would say that while much of the stuff was ground I had already covered personally, a few of his passages were thoughts I had never elucidated into words, so I did benefit somewhat from reading it.

Also South Park is frakking awesomeeee.

The great problem I find with evangelical atheists is that they are so incongruent with their support base which, almost by definition, primarily rationalists with no truck for having arguments overlaid with emotion, whether sarcasm or fire and brimstone imagery.

I thought the Greatest Show on Earth was a terrific book, primarily because Dawkins explicitly (you could read him metaphorically biting his lip any number of times) kept away from religion per se. However, I recently saw him on a panel on Australian TV and he came across as arrogant, dismissive and supercilious - and this was sitting next to one of the silliest politicians in the Australian parliament! In fact, the Jewish female liberal rabbi seemed to be the one who came across as not only the most reasonable, but the most rational.

I understand where he is coming from, recognising the need to aggressively combat the hypocrisy and outrageous lies of the creationists, but if you represent the voice of reason and real truth you have to act the part too.

Also South Park is frakking awesomeeee.
Everyone to their own taste!

well of course! it'd be odd having everyone to each others' tastes!

Re: Dawkins

I'm going to defend Dawkins' forthright and frank atheism. If anyone cares to read his defence against being called a 'zealot' (oh the irony) then they will see that Dawkins and many others are concerned that the damaging effects of religious belief are let off the book and that toleration sneaks in through the back door, the age old perennial insipid scourge of religion pervading the establishment without legitimate franchise.
In fact we can see this in the ridiculous representation of marginalised religions on Ethics committees etc. that are actively shaping policy at the expense of reason in a supposedly secular society.
Religion is so pervasive and ingrained that to simply sit back and allow these sects off the hook, is to abandon secular society and accept that 'faith' is in some way a ticket to power making echelons of society.
The tolerance that is shown to these faiths by atheists is really just good old fashioned manners. However, as Dawkins would say, we need to expose these institutions as forgeries if we want to move on as a species, beyond primitiveness.

Not sure that Dawkins goes militant in the ones published by FS. He doesn't in Watchmaker, Selfish Gene or Ancestor's Tale, it's just touched on occasionally in the last.

>106 islandbooks:
Thank you! You have persuaded me that I need to order that book:)

>129 lxanderl: it's a fairly common idiom (at least in England). Similar to the French "Chacun a son gout". Acknowledges that people have a right to decide what they like and dislike, but begging to differ (in this case, rather a lot)
> 128 Rather the opposite!

(Apologies if I'm missing any irony - doesn't come out well on message boards without emoticons).

In my basket:
At the Back of the North Wind
Midnight's Children
The Raj Quartet
Arabian Sands
Touching the Void
Travels in West Africa

In my wallet:
Fear and Trembling

I wonder if I should hold off on any of them, in particular The Raj Quartet, if I might be able to get it with my renewal. Of the books not included in the sale, I see six that I certainly will be buying at some point, and there will of course be new books offered, but that big renewal offer has me hesitating. And I do know not to take their first or second offer, but to wait and wait for them to bring out the "here's an offer you truly MUST accept" version.

I swore that I would cut down on my spending, and then put books costing $287.45 in my basket. I can resist anything except temptation.

> 134

Great selection coynedj

I have read Midnight's Children and Touching the Void, though not FS editions.

I've been a member for only a few months. What's required to renew (each year)?

>137 mboudreau:

A large wad of cash!

I am surprised at the Folio Society wasting precious paper on a bigot like Dawkins. His arguments on religion are stale and not particularly original. I have to agree with Mary Midgely that Darwinian fundementalists like Dawkins are just as fanatical and bigoted as their religious conterparts.

Back to the sale there is not much that tempts me. I may pick up the two AJP Taylor volumes and, possibly, Birdsong - but evenn those I can live without. I am dissapointed that the two Le Carre volumes are not included.

It has lots of books by that other bigot Wodehouse. Or that sexual deviant Woody Allen. Or the notorious law-breaker Oscar Wilde. Let alone the religious intolerant St Augustine. Dawkins is at least a serious and well-regarded scientist in his field and addresses his field in the FS books, rather than use them as polemics.

I am deeply tempted by the Kelmscott Chaucer and Natural History of Selborne. An impending pay rise isn't helping matters.

As to the general criticism of the sale, I think it is like somebody said last year: each sale is different. The Spring Sale offers free sets and the Summer one big discounts on individual books. Personally I prefer the latter and could add several (cheaper) books to the two above but I'm trying to be good. Ahem

I find it bizarre the idea that Dawkins (and other atheists, eg Hitchens) are just as bad as evangelical or fundamentalist theists (of whatever stripe).
When Dawkins is presiding over an atheist auto da fe, or Hitchens launching freethinker suicide bombers, then maybe the analogy is correct.
Until then, please make a better comparison.
FWIW I found the arguments in the God Delusion for the non exisxtence of god unconvincing, but the skewering of religious thought and, in particular, practice was spot on.
Anyway, I've succumbed to the Analects, Art of War & Eyewitness to history, but now I'm having serious thoughts about getting Walden & Consolations of Philiosophy too.
Like others, I was initially underwhelmed by the sale, but now fear I'll end up ordering loads.
Damn you Folio Society!

>142 hsg1989:, 143

The truth can be threatening to some. Dawkins works on science and probability. Religion works on faith and an old book - a handed down myth.

Hard choice.

>141 khaa9481: I am too tempted by the Kelmscott Chaucer, even though I have to admit that I would have preferred the Easton Press LE version. Unfortunately I missed out on this. It might take a bit more time to make up my mind about the FS Kelmscott, but it didn’t stop me to place my third order:

Walden
Birdsong
Arabian Sands
To Kill a Mockingbird

Don't remind me of the EP Kelmscott.
An FS devotee posted pics of their copy, made me rush off to the EP site, in vain.
Drat!

I meant to add: If anyone is interested, the works of Bertrand Russell are in my opinion brilliant and expose religion as a dangerous cultural phenomena. Why I am not a christian is a great place to start. This clearly shows that one's religion is almost always decided by your geographical birth location and the religion of your parents. So for instance should you believe that christianity is the only route to salvation, then it is a bit of bad luck to be born as say, Gema Suparmanputra Onbekend, a muslim to Islamic parents from Jakarta, isnt it? (Rather than say, Jessica Penelope Openshaw from Jacksdale)
Russell clearly provides such examples and he is a wonderful read.

Could those of you who wish to continue the religious/evolution attacks over to the Pro and Con (Religion). That is a more appropriate forum for those posts.

> 147

We are discussing Dawkins (and Russell) : pertinent to the summer sale.

Sensitivities accepted, if one does not like Dawkins then they should just shut up.

I don't see any atheists on here coming on and having a go at The four Gospels which I might say, they would be perfectly entitled to considering the attacks on Dawkins.

Regardless, I thoroughly recommend Dawkins and Russell.

Sensitivities accepted, if one does not like Dawkins then they should just shut up.

I really like Dawkins' works on evolution, but find his anti-religion books tiresome. I think the question as to which groups the Folio Dawkins books belong to is a very reasonable one: I'm hardly the only person who is interested in one and not the other.

I'm trying to resist the Summer Sale, since I've only recently joined and had to buy 4 books right away. Unfortunately, the printed sale catalog arrived today, with much more alluring pictures of the sale books than those on the web site...sigh. If I had just won the lottery, I'd be ordering the Oxford Dictionary of the Middle Ages and the Kelmscott Chaucer. As it is, I'm tempted by the Secret History, Midnight's Children, Eyewitness to History, and the Raj Quartet. But I need to save something for my re-upping in the fall. Nothing in the basket yet...

If anyone's considering the Boethius, I can recommend it. A good translation and a nice, not-overdone presentation.

> 150

That's interesting. The Greatest Show on Earth is his latest and deals specifically with Evolution, but it is a direct refutation of Creationist/ID propaganda.

The God Delusion is a nice book and is more of broader project.

Anyone looking for a clinical and objective look at the arguments (Argument from Design/Teleological argument, Argument from Analogy, Cosmological argument, Ontological argument) could do worse than to read Roy Jackson's great exposition, The God of Philosophy.

> 147

I completely agree with Les Miserables. Have read nothing by Dawkins but I'm not the least interested. I don't need to be convinced. Since Russell (and much earlier with other freethinkers), religion has been shown to be detrimental to human progress. Let those who believe in supernatural forces go their way in peace and leave us heathen to our damnation.

Danish people are not very religious and the State Church of Denmark has lost over 70% of its members but still the debate about religion and the fact we're a constitutional monarchy is on going.

Nevertheless, I would defend Dawkins - some might not agree with him, fine with me but I think his aggressive atheistic personality and his arrogant patronizing "eyebrow" are amusing to watch but also portrays his worries about the underlying issue of extremism in religion today. I believe if a state is accommodating a minority group and their religious belief then they themselves should also accommodate the state/countries living values. But what is happening today is the state is almost granting the minority full right to religions tradition. Their should be compromise.

Being a minority myself, I integrate my niece into Danish society as much as I can as well as teaching her rational and intelligible thought whereas I see fellow minority parents doing otherwise, becoming more religious, teaching their children about the notions of "us" and "them" and outright rejecting any Danish traditions for fear of losing any minority character. It's pathetic sometimes so daft and I wholehearted discontent it

> 149

"I don't see any atheists on here coming on and having a go at The four Gospels which I might say, they would be perfectly entitled to considering the attacks on Dawkins."

Despite my lack of religion, The Four Gospels was the last LE I purchased. Surely to only read what one agrees with compounds one's own ignorance.

Unfortunately, what we are seeing is a growth of extremism. Old battles come to the foreground and have to be refought all over again. It is not a question of not being open to other views but of seeing the rehashing of older ones sometimes in more extreme ways. Tolerance seems to be very unfashionable these days. Perhaps it is a consequence of the openness and accessibility to information everywhere. But instead of favoring debate and enlightenment, they appear to foster acrimonious disagreement. And everyone has something "to pardon" or to vindicate. Learning from past failures and mistakes so as not to repeat them doesn´t necessarily mean having to relive and reenact them.

Edited for typo.

I guess many people don't consider religion to be a concern to them and as such don't spend too much thought on it, but people like Dawkins do and point out just how much these groups infiltrate the decision making processes of our societies.

The head of the Reserve Bank of Australia, Glenn Stevens, goes so far as to say that his christian beliefs guide his policy making.

I feel completely offended by this and worried too.

But it is what Dawkins means when he talks about the dangerous ideas that seep through our institutions like schools, government etc.

Here in Australia, the state schools are meant to be secular but have been invaded on the explicit orders of the old PM here, John Howard, by an army of christian chaplains. It is beyond the pale.

What worries many people I think is that it is the intelligent free thinkers (most highly intelligent western folk are atheist or agnostic confirmed by an army of surveys) are the silent majority but the vocal minority are running society.

>157 LesMiserables: I absolutely agree

(all right here we go..)
May I remind the enlightened and high-minded free-thinkers in this group a fact that might have escaped their attention: that the main,"autos de fe" ethnic cleansing, and manslaughter in the past century were led by vocal, militant atheists..or by equally antichristian neopagans? Remember Animal farm, ? :-)

Dawkins and Russell are playing in differente leagues IMHO

Hey Pepe_Prats,
Are you saying that some of the prominent mass-murderers based most of their actions and authority on atheism, i.e., atheism has some intrinsic quality that can lend itself to this sort of behavior, and/or provides a means to unite people to perform this sort of behavior?

If you're merely providing counter-examples to the alleged proof that the physical manifestation of atheism is perfect, then I totally agree with you. Atheists aren't necessarily moral. They're not necessarily immoral or amoral, either... even though the minimal definition of atheism says absolutely nothing about morality. (Sorry, I'm having a hard time discerning your argument)

Also...I am considering getting the Natural History of Selborne.
Am I on topic?
Yeah, baby, I think I am. UNH

Edatted 4 GRAMMAR

I too have trouble following > 159's argument.

Of course, atheists can be immoral. Ethics and the belief or disbelief (or lack of any belief) in God has nothing to do with ethics. The central aspect here, I think, is laicity. The religious (in the sense of belief in sometime beyond rational understanding and based ultimately on immanent faith) would mix morality and religion in order to maintain power and control society. This certainly has been going on for centuries.

If anyone objects to keeping these thoughts as part of the Summer Sale, a new thread can be started.

Hey drasvola,
I would actually disagree with one of your points: that belief or lack of some belief has nothing to do with ethics. Even though there is often an intersection between doctrines and secular humanism, they diverge at the extremes, because their origins are defined by their subscribers to come from different sources. The believer follows ethics to serve her humanity (herself included) to serve God, while the nonbeliever follows ethics only to serve her fellow humans (herself included).

Incidentally, I'm not a huge fan of the terms 'believer' and 'nonbeliever'. I'm all like atheistic and shit, but I personally believe in tons of stuff!! Like...TRUE LOVE!!

Here in the states it works like this, if you're born to folks who believe in the Easter Bunny, you too will believe in the Easter Bunny. You then grow up and work for folks who believe in the Energizer Bunny, so you too will believe (or profess) in the Energizer Bunny. I know women who fall in love w/guys who believe in the Playboy Bunny, so they too (profess) will believe in a Playboy Bunny.

Free thinking, what the hell is that??

Just pointing at some alternative empirical evidence about pervasive and ingrained disbelief in the establishment.. :-) And also about the amount of social control involved.

(Yes, ready to move to another thread if someone objects..)

> lxander

Thanks for your comment. I don´t think we disagree. I am referring to belief in God. I too believe in many things, humanistic and secular, and in brotherhood or love for other human beings. I'm talking about ethics based on an understanding of human relations free from supernatural implications.

> 163

Free thinking is a "polite" way to refer to atheistic inclinations.

Not that I object to this discussion, but I'll lodge a request to move it to its own thread. I think it's gone beyond the scope of the Summer Sale by now. :)

See new thread.

http://www.librarything.com/topic/93874

>145 Stephan68:: I'll get things back to the Summer Sale. Just went into the Members' Room to inspect a few books. The main news is that they expect the Kelmscott Chaucer to sell out in the sale. It is down in stock to "the hundreds" and so they expect it to be discontinued at the end of the summer. But I must say I'm still having second thoughts as I hadn't realised just how enormous it is. It is so big and so heavy. Natural History of Selborne seems v sober by comparison and is tempting more at the moment. I held out somehow though.

>168 khaa9481: Good to be back on topic! I actually like to handle large, heavy books and I have a few that are even bigger than the FS Kelmscott. Unfortunately after missing out on the EP Kelmscott (apologies if I opened old wounds ceburaska) it would feel like settling for second best. However, since my preference for the EP version is mainly based on a few pictures of the binding that I’ve seen on LT, I would be grateful for some enabling comments on the overall quality of the book. FS mentions that they used specially commissioned paper for the Kelmscott. Any opinion about this?

I'm grateful that I found out there exists a better (as described here) and yet unattainable - on my budget - version of the Kelmscott. I had placed the Chaucer in my basket until I heard read about the EP version here. Yayy!!!!

So, how sad is it that now that the Summer Sale has disappeared from the site along with a basket of books that I wasn't even sure I was going to buy I find myself upset at not having completed the order? If it weren't for FS's total lack of technical savvy website-wise I'd think this was a ploy to increase sales; i.e. once the sale is back I'm pretty sure I will be ordering the missing books no matter how much I was hesitating before. With my luck they really will be improving the sale and I'll end up ordering even more books in a sale that I wasn't even interested in just a few days ago. So much for cutting back.

>171 haniwitch:

Why not just call now and order the books you had in your cart? Then freeze your credit card in a block of ice so that you can't place a second order once the sale comes back up? :)

Although, I think it worth mentioning that something funny is going on with the sale. It disappeared for me over the weekend, but was back on Monday (with exactly the same books as before). It seems to be having intermittent outages for members, but at different times. A head scratcher, for sure.

>169 Stephan68: This just goes to show that peoples preferrences are so different. I saw pictures of the EP edition when it came out, and decided not to buy it because I disliked the binding, thinking the Folio design was much prettier. Admittedly I have seen neither in person, though I did order the Folio version last weekend. It will be the most expensive book I own, so I am hoping it is wonderful.

Summer sale is gone for me too - US.

I can still see the Summer sale here in Australia. Perhaps that's because I have not ordered anything from it or perhaps it's because it's winter here or perhaps it's a FS website glitch or perhaps the Australian sales are so low because of the ridiculous prices they charge that they are keeping the sale open or perhaps they have just forgotten to close it. :-)

>175 LesMiserables:

Well I can't. So it's not geographical.

The sale was available for me in the U.S., and I just placed my order. I will surely regret spending so much money, but if I hadn't I would regret not doing so. Ah, the dilemmas of the bibliophile.

the FS giveth, and the FS taketh away; blessed be the name of the FS

( Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked (and broke) shall I return thither)

>178 P3p3_Pr4ts:

Quite. PP do you pay World Prices (UK) in Ibiza or a special FS Ibiza price which is designed to protect you from credit card charges? ;-)

Although there is not so much to tempt me in the sale this year that's a reflection of the fact that I have already aquired a lot of the titles, so it's difficult to form a judgement on how good the sale actually is.

Do additional books get added to the sale as the summer progresses or is the sale list fixed?

Two days ago I placed a Spring Sale order online which went through. Today I receive in the mail the brochure announcing the Spring Sale (indicating that orders can be placed, among other ways, via the website).

This afternoon, the Spring Sale has disappeared from the website. Does anyone understand this?

>179 LesMiserables:, Not at all.LesMis We are thrown in with "Rest of the World"..Only the rule of not biting more than I can read keeps me afloat

> 182

Thanks supercell. I am already being tempted by one or two offers. Some of these books are such bargains it would be crazy to pass up.

But the Playboy bunny IS real!!!!!

I have been a member of this group for a little over two years and have always enjoyed the warmth and courtesy that have been shown to and by fellow members even when they disagree. The quality of discussion has usually been of a high standard and personal attacks have been rare. To my mind it has always been a place (a rare place indeed on the internet) where good manners count. I don't know why, but recently this seems to be changing. It is particularly sad when members of long standing who have contributed much to the group are treated discourteously for expressing an opinion.

It's interesting that wherever Richard Dawkins's name is mentioned, opinions seem to polarise almost instantaneously. It all changed with The God Delusion. Prior to that, Dawkins was very much known for his science writing. Quicksilver comments that they can't understand why the FS are "wasting precious paper on a bigot like Dawkins." That's because they are publishing his science writing rather than his writing on religious subjects, though I recognise that the two can become intertwined. Not that I'd accept the word that Dawkins is a bigot. Many things, but not that. Even though I agree with much of his reasoning, I do accept that many will find his tone and language offensive - I do. On the other hand, non-believers in the current versions of God have had to put up with that for centuries, and I still live in a society (in England) where as an atheist I am in practical terms forced to be a hypocrite if I am to sustain my job (as a teacher), and where religious belief is embedded in the fabric of the state. It's better than it was, but it's not really suprising that some get angry.

>187 HuxleyTheCat: Thank you so much, dear Huxley, for expressing a beautiful opinion that, sadly, may be too complex to be understood by some as it is both reasonable and kind.

>186 cronshaw: I am so sorry, cronshaw, that you have learned to laugh hysterically at others, to very easily and generally judge others, because of your own experiences with cringing. I have been told by some whose opinion I respect, and I have learned firsthand, that confession can be good for the soul. If that is true, then may you find solace.

> 187, 188, 189

Thank you for your courteous words Fiona, Willoyd and Olepuppy.

Cronshaw I have little to say to you because I don't wish to drag myself down to your adolescent level. However, if you are interested in this debate and wish to understand my position as an agnostic (who respects and admires sincerely held religious belief)and the position of others who are believers or atheists then you should look at the thread on philosophical issues connected with Folio books. I respect the views of others particularly as I am uncertain as to the truth but Dawkins hits a raw nerve with me because of his unpleasant and discourteous attitude.

This thread seems to have become yet another example of the very different mindsets between atheists and agnostics. Atheists, such as Dawkins, express not only a certainty in their own beliefs but a contempt of contrary beliefs held by others (a view summed up quite well in the title of Dawkins' polemic, "The God Delusion"). Agnostics, on the other hand, are open to the views of others and seek to understand, not belittle, them (although I'm putting a mighty big thumb on the scale, I'll cite as an example the Folio title, "The Varieties of Religious Experience" by William James). As I hold to neither position, I pose the following question: why do atheists think they could persuade me to adopt their views by condemning my own? Indeed, why would I join a club where most of the members seem to embrace incivility?

> 191

Hi podaniel

I'm afraid your mistaken in your knowledge of Dawkins.
Dawkins actually says he is a de facto atheist: that is a very strong agnostic in The God Delusion and not a Strong Atheist in the sense of absolute 100% certainty. However he does say that the probability of a God are extremely low, and lower still for the monotheistic benevolent omniscient omnipotent pop-god of today.
In fact Dawkins has spoken on this subject and Deism as probably the only chink of light left for theism; although again the probability is minuscule.
This tells us much about Dawkins as an honest and forthright intellectual. Much cannot be said of his adversaries.

I think there are serious problems in a discussion which moves from talking about ideas to talking about people who are prominent adherents of those ideas.

Yes, people do hold ideas strongly and some express them strongly. Even more, the expression of those ideas can involve the strong (and arguably strident) criticisms of opposing and inconsistent ideas.

>191 podaniel:. On what basis can you say that most atheists seem to embrace incivility? If it only on the basis of those who are most prominent and argumentative (Dawkins and Hitchens come to mind but I can think of no others) or on the strongly stated views of a few members of Library Thing here, you are running a serious statistical sampling risk.

How do you know the level of civility of those who are not posting here but share the view of religion and god?

And is it fair to say that the perceived incivility of the members of the atheist 'club' is what puts you off sharing their views? if so, is that a very superficial reason for reaching so essential a view of your place in this world. if not, then it seems to me dishonest to make that point, rather than simply take a stand for the fact that you believe.

I don't think Dawkins and Hitchens are out there evangelising for atheism (the idea itself, of course, is anathema to atheists) but rather taking a stand on behalf of those who do not have faith against those who would impose their faith on every one else. As is happening so much in the USA.

If it wasn't for people like Dawkins, our children would be forced to study that drivel known as 'intelligent design' and, worse, be taught that Darwin was the devil, rather than possibly the greatest and most humane scientist of the 19th century.

>191 podaniel:

I'm an atheist without being contemptuous of believers and I hope without embracing incivility. And I know others of my stripe. A lazy generalization?

Remember, a whole thread was set up to discuss this sort of thing:
http://www.librarything.com/topic/93874

Can we get back to the summer sale on this thread, please?

Has anyone here seen the Elizabeth David books, like Summer Cooking? Is it as pretty inside as outside? Anyone here try the recipes?

Let's see, vat1sem has just said that my remarks seem to be "dishonest" and that an opposing viewpoint consists of "drivel." Leonb then points out that my comments are the result of "a lazy generalization." I'll leave it to others to decide the merits of my point about incivility.

OH, and good point jfetting, sorry about my intrusion. As to the Elizabeth David books, I have all four of them, and they are absolutely gorgeous--I highly recommend them. I haven't had a chance to try the recipes yet.

> 56 haniwitch, (and any others interested in the Crossley-Holland Arthur trilogy), I placed my order for all three earlier. There is no way of doing this at the moment via the website but I gave them a ring and they were happy to sort the order out for me. I also ordered the Tennyson.

I finally have the summer sale. And I have to join the ranks of the underwhelmed. Still, I ordered Venice, which I've wanted for ages but refused to pay the full Australian price, and Tennyson to go with the Golden Treasury, Wordsworth and Keats.

Oh, and >196 podaniel:, it would of course be uncivil to not let you have the last word.

>195 jfetting: Summer cooking is very pretty, far too pretty to use in my kitchen (nice paper, too) - I just like Elizabeth David for the writing, which is so appetizing. But her recipes are always good. Maybe it's in that one that there's a recipe for lobster courchamps, one I have adapted for prawns, which is delicious - and unusual.

I've placed two orders

Tennyson
The Secret History
The Stones of Venice

and

Walden
Dictionary of Architecture

Thoreau will join other editions

I have just returned from the Members Room where I picked up The Analects and the Spy's Bedside Book in the sale. I have been thinking about these titles for a while - the sale pushed me over the edge.

> 198

Fiona, I am tempted by the Crossly Holland Trilogy. I assume they are childrens books that can be read and enjoyed by adults, such as Pullman, etc. Forgive me, but I don't know much about them.

> 202 I've not read them myself, but having sampled The Seeing Stone and liking the FS treatment of the first two volumes (I haven't seen no. 3) then I was happy enough to have a splurge on all three together. Yes, they are essentially kid's books but I tend to rather enjoy those.

> 203

Thanks. I may give them a try.

#198
Huxley, I bought The Seeing Stone when it first came out (an Arthurian theme always grabs me) so when they offered the other two at a discount I jumped at it and placed my order by snail mail right away. Actually the mail must have been fairly quick because they're already listed as Despatched on the website which from previous experience means they're probably just a few days away (yay!). I'm pretty sure FS is slow at updating the accounts on the website as I always receive shipments way too quickly for them to have been sent on the day the account status changes.

My sale books came today, shrink-wrapped and surrounded by bubble-wrap, but with one book placed upright and protruding above the top of the cardboard box. Fortunately neither it nor the slipcase were damaged in any way.

I'm very much looking forward to reading Ackroyd on Blake, having enjoyed his Dickens, but I know that his style of including a certain amount of imagined and dramatic detail, which reminds me of children's histories of the early twentieth century, is not to everyone's taste.

The Seeing Stone looks beautiful. I live the smooth paper and the chunky illustrations. It had passed me by that FS had published the other two, so now I'm sorely tempted.

I know nothing of Alison Uttley, but looking through the book, I know it's going to be a good read. I can't help thinking that it would be great if the Society would publish Lucy Boston's Green Knowe books.

Finally, the Persian Wars. This takes me back to my schooldays and Bury's and Hammond's histories of Greece that we mugged up for A Level. I have quite a few books on Greek history, but I will enjoy getting my teeth into this one. (Not literally - it's quite a thick book!) One downside, though, was some smudgy, inky? marks at the foot of 3 or 4 pages in the middle. Fortunately, they came off with a good old-fashioned pencil rubber.

Oh, and the address book might come in handy to consolidate the information we already have scattered about in at least three others.

>195 jfetting: I have all four Elizabeth Davids. Super productions, my only complaint being the paucity of illustrations (which are pretty but don't add very much to these books). Love the covers though!

>202 Quicksilver66: I really enjoyed The Seeing Stone. It is a children's book, but more of a teenage than children children. Some of my top end year 5s (9-10) really enjoy it too, as they did Philip Pullman.
Those of you who have seen the next two volumes - lucky you. Still not appeared on my version of the website! I'd be after them like a shot.

>207 Willoyd: willoyd they aren't on any version of the website yet - I bought mine over the phone.

#207
Mine were purchased from a special mailing that FS sent to members who had purchased The Seeing Stone offering a 20 percent discount on the two new books. Rochefoucauld mentioned on the "I just ordered-received" thread that he's already got his copies and is very impressed with them so I'm more anxious than ever for mine to arrive. Hopefully they'll go up on the website soon for the rest of you.

>196 podaniel:

Incidentally, podaniel, I didn't call you "lazy", I suggested you made a "lazy generalization" - hardly uncivil. Anyway it wasn't intended in that spirit.

> 187 Thanks HuxleyTheCat for calling this group to order! I might enjoy the occasional debate myself but good manners do count.

> 173 elmaynard, since we are back on topic and summer sale is finally back online for me, I have to confess that I just gave in and ordered the FS Kelmscott. It might feel like second best to me, and it probably is the first book that I buy just as an ornament and not a reading copy, but I hope I will enjoy it as much as you.

>211 Stephan68: Stephan68, I hope you enjoy it. Mine has not yet arrived -I overbought on this sale. Last summer I kept debating it, but this year I just couldn't resist. I hope it is as beautiful as the pictures.

I have ordered Summer Cooking in the sale and can imagine being persuaded to order French Provincial Cooking at full price in order to complete the set. (I acquired both Italian Food and A Book of Mediterranean Food as 'freebies' during the last sale. My husband doesn't really 'get' the idea of reading cookery books at bedtime but Elizabeth David stimulates some wonderful foodie dreams for me, believe me.)

> 195 jfetting

"Anyone here try the recipes?"
Yes, for over 50 years! Some turned out less interesting than they sounded, some I used to enjoy but don't so much now (taste changes with age, hélas !) but for all that they remain an inexhaustible treasure-house, an unfathomed well of inspiration, a window to new horizons... in the 1950s she was the C S Lewis of food, leading you through the back of the kitchen cupboard to a magic kingdom fragrant with basil and garlic, in which no coffee was instant nor any pea tinned. And of course she's a damned fine writer.
I almost bought the Folio editions, but it seemed too much of a betrayal of my battered Penguin paperbacks, wherein every smear of blood, greasy thumbprint, dried egg stain or slashed page conjures up past triumphs (or, where the blood was my own, disasters), happy evenings, lost loves... And I guess the recipes in the FS editions have been metricated, up with which I cannot put.
Buy them and use them..tarte aux abricotes, tarte aux pommes normande, omelette savoyarde, poulet à l'estragon....

And I guess the recipes in the FS editions have been metricated, up with which I cannot put.
You'll be pleased to hear they haven't.

#215 Good to know. That's a reason for me not to buy it

I've realised that when I place two orders on the same day I will only get one Folio Address Book, but when I place them on different days I will get one with each order.

I managed to pass on the Spring sale, as difficult as that was for me to do. I couldn't resist the Summer sale as there were two books that I really wanted, but didn't want to pay full price. I picked up

The Oregon Trail
The Mandarins

I think after this I will need to take a hiatus from spending until my renewal comes up again....November I believe?

Please, no more sales! I'm being facetious, of course!

>218 acidneutral:,219

From previous threads, November may be a more practical date as the offers improve if you don't take up the first one.

I will be curious to see what the offers are this year. I might wait until November to see if they are better...unless something next month grabs my attention.

#221
I've always renewed with the first offer that comes in August--until I joined this group. I had no idea until then that the offers changed as time passed. Year before last I waited until mid-October and got the du Maurier Cornish novels, which I really wanted. Then last year I waited again and got the Nesbit Treasure Seekers and Five Children sets for $5.00 Can. Patience pays off.

I have just laid down my credit card for A History of Selbourne and Midnight's Children and have been wavering about the Auster book, as the illustrations look divine.

An interesting and enlivening discussion about Dawkins. Without intending to re-open the debate, I do heartily agree with Les Miserables and strongly disagree with the word bigot wrt Dawkins - that is not a deserved label at all. I personally think he takes a heroic stance on the issue of belief.

Anybody received Sale books yet. Any absolute MUST haves? Boldface has gotten me interested in The Seeing Stone and Blake

I didn't know they had A Christmas Carol. Where do you see it?

I received my first summer sale order - with it, I received a brochure to receive 50 pounds (I assume this is $100 US) to refer a friend to the Folio Society.

I received something for this too. However, I referred my boyfriend in May and still haven't received anything :(

I recently joined the Folio Society but am yet to receive any materials. Could someone tell me how to access the Summer Sale? When I log on to the Folio site there doesn't seem to be any links to it.

> 230

Have you fulfilled your membership committment by buying 4 volumes yet? Only when you have will you gain access to the sale.

231>

Ah yes, what better way to tear up your commitment to buy only 4 books ;-)

Deja vu

>230 rakkie:

I joined back in November and was not allowed to access the spring sale on-line. Only after correspondence between FS and I (or me? English is not my native language) I found out that they had extended the christmas sale for me as I was new member. Nevertheless, they at my request sent me the spring promotional sale material so that I could order by phone.

My opinion fulfill your membership and call them to let you participate in the sale

ironjaw, your English is excellent so I'm surprised to read that you're uncertain of how to decline the first person singular personal pronoun in a prepositional phrase. Though that aspect of English is difficult for many native English speakers as well, I'd imagine it to be relatively easy for a non-native English speaker to master as compared to many other aspects of English (e.g., the many irregular verbs, idioms, and homonyms). May I inquire as to your native language?

rakkie, I joined during the spring sale and was able to access a portion of the sale on the website after completing my initial requirement. However, I had access to the entire sale by phone order. If you've completed your initial commitment, give the FS a call and inquire about the sale status of the titles you're interested in.

>234 _Chris_:

I am also a non-native English speaker. What I find difficult is not so much the irregular verbs and idioms, but instead the collocations, i.e. which words belong together. For example, do I complain strongly or bitterly about something. I do not sense that difference easily.

>234 _Chris_: Thank you, though my English was far better a couple of years ago when I studied at University in the UK. Living there and reading newspapers and national geographic and browsing excellent bookshops was the highlight of my life compared to the meagre selection here in Copenhagen. There is really no bookculture here. Speaking Danish all the time one always seems to have the need to adjust oneself when switching over to English.

>235 cdekeule: "For example, do I complain strongly or bitterly about something. I do not sense that difference easily."

You can do either, and I frequently do. However, to complain "bitterly" would imply some acrimony on the complainer's part, who, perhaps feels he is the victim of some injustice done, such as paying over the odds to get books shipped to Australia, whereas to complain "strongly" is neutral and merely implies a greater intensity of complaint than ordinary complaining.

> 237

How will good sport LesMis take all these subtle allusions...? ;-)

No offence meant to LesMis. It's just the first example that seems to come to mind.

My copies of the Crossley-Holland trilogy arrived today and I am very pleased with them. The book design is first rate: quarter cloth with modigliani paper sides (each of the three vols in subtly different); six different maps and plans across the endpapers of the three vol; nice choice of fonts and layout and profusely illustrated. Very good value for £60.

> 238, 239

I am amongst friends here, mostly, and have no problem with the allusions. :-)

Strongly or Bitterly in my case? Well it's not personal though it feels like it when your paying. But I perceive injustice. But enough; lest I be accused of......

;-)

>240 HuxleyTheCat: "My copies of the Crossley-Holland trilogy arrived today and I am very pleased with them."

I bought The Seeing-Stone in the Summer Sale, but how do I find the other two?

When I search for "Kevin Crossley-Holland" on the website I get The Seeing-Stone and "Did you mean: Kevin Grassland ?".

#242
They're not on the site as yet. I ordered mine from a special mailing I received because I already owned The Seeing Stone and HuxleyTheCat mentioned being in the Members' Room in one of her posts. You could probably order them by phone if you don't want to wait.

> 242 / 243

Boldface, as haniwich says, just give them a ring. The codes are KA2 for At the Crossing Places and KA3 for King of the Middle March. I paid the discounted price of £22.95 each.

Thanks for your help, haniwitch and HuxleyTheCat. There is a similar situation with the new O'Brians. I got a mailing for the latest ones but they're not on the website yet. My list of wants is growing rapidly!

Does anyone know if there is ever anything added to the Summer Sale? I want to place a second order but I don't know if it's worth holding off for possible late additions or further discounts and ordering all together to save on postage.

> 246 Last year there were quite a few titles added, but the sale last summer was different, with much bigger discounts on some items. I would gues that they add titles in order to compensate for those that sell out, but this year I haven't seen too many 'sold out' signs.

I think the main purpose of the summer sale is to clear space in the warehouse for the new stock, so if things aren't moving too well we may possibly see some further discounting, or additional items added, in order to give the sale new impetus.

#246
I don't think you would save on postage by doing one big order instead of two (or three) little ones. When I put one of the regular sized books in my basket I get postage of $6.95. When I add other books of the same size the postage is still a multiple of $6.95 (i.e. 3 x $6.95 = $20.85).

Yeah we pay £3.95 for 2 books (I think) and £5.95 flat fee for anything over that, therefore if I make 2 orders I'll pay for postage twice. OK it's only £6.00 extra, but it's the principal of the thing!

PS. I should also state that I consider the Folio Society postage charges for the UK to be more than reasonable compared to overseas. I honestly feel for you guys abroad.

>237 boldface:

Confusing. According to my Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary the correct collocation is 'complain bitterly'. In fact they use this as an example to discuss what collocation is.

>252 cdekeule:
To complain bitterly is fine, depending on the feelings of the person complaining. Boldface's explanation is perfect. Use of the word bitter (e.g. to be bitter about something) is common when referring to bad feeling on the part of someone towards something or somebody else.

Folio's postage fees to Canada are pretty reasonable. Just try ordering from a second-hand bookseller in the UK to get an idea about how high shipping costs to Canada can be.

I wasn't going to bring this up but since the postage costs have come up, I think the FS are really squeezing the Australian market at least by the goonies.

I did a buying scenario based on weight shipping Australia by the FS and then if I was to get that exact package delivered to a UK address then sent buy courier- 1st Class Airmail 13 kg.

Guess what.

FS actual charge was in AUD$ but on current rates in ponds it was £57

The courier from the UK was £56 (picked up from home - door to door)

I was shocked by the pricing difference in the books but when I did this exercise on the postage, it really takes the biscuit.

> 242 The Crossley-Holland 'Arthur' trilogy is now available on the website. What's more, the famous "tote bag" is back (albeit in a rather fetching shade of burgandy this time around).

It looks like there are a few new books up: a few reference collections (Cambridge Histories of The Cold War and Russia), plus the Karla trilogy (which may well have been available previously but I can't remember seeing it).

(These books are not in the sale section but in the "New Sets and Special Editions" section)

>255 LesMiserables:

Have I read this wrongly, as I don't see what the problem is?

FS Postage charge = £57.
Courier Postage charge = £56 (plus postage to the UK address, plus packing).

That's only £1 difference, so where's the problem?

>256 HuxleyTheCat:

It's good to hear that the Crossley-Holland Trilogy is now available generally.

>257 RMMee:

I think he means that the similarity in shipping charges underlines the enormous discrepancy between the high book prices demanded of Australians and those charged to residents elsewhere in the world.

I said I was going to wait for renewal. I said I wasn't going to buy anything in the summer sale. You people wore me down. I had to get the 6th & 7th of the Aubrey/Maturin series.

>256 HuxleyTheCat:

I don't see why some members keep harping on the tote bag!

> 260 Because we know how desirable they are!

I know I have one somewhere, but I haven't a clue where it is.

> 257

Perhaps because you live in Derbyshire (?) then the postage is not an issue, but please consider this....

When a book is sent to you, you pay a low cost for postage. Indeed you pay a subsidised price.

However when a book is sent to me, not only do I pay a massive premium on the cost of the book, but I suspect the Folio Society actually make a profit on the shipping too.

Now as a 'member' I expect some sort of equilibrium of benefits.

I suspect that the Folio Society could arrange some sort of business deal with a courier company or even Royal Mail, that based on volume of business and economies of scale, they get a darned good shipping rate.

I also suspect that they do have such dealings but prefer to pass on the costs plus pump the Australian market for all that they can get.

If I can beat the Folio Society with just a couple of minutes browsing the various courier companies, then I know that they are profiteering.

I do consider myself a 'member' of the Folio Society: in fact I have a contract with them every year.

Do I consider that the offer we get in terms of price and service is good? Absolutely not.

There is also no point saying, "well if you don't like, bugger off".

I sense quite a bit of this NIMBY-type syndrome. However if the shoe was on the other foot?

Equality is all we ask for. We're not looking for extra, just equity.

>262 LesMiserables:

For what it's worth? Whilst there can be no doubt that the further from the source of a product you are - the more you are going to pay. The extra in your case looks excessive.

The only justification would be if the 'office' in Australia gave you the added value benefits that justified the cost, but your postings would indicate that not to be the case (I suppose this would raise the question about the need for regional offices).

I think I know where you are coming from. In my simple terms the question is: "Why isn't it the basic UK cost of the book plus postage to my country at cost and a nominal amount to cover returns and contingencies?".

> 263

The Regional Office is farcical. Even the books that you are sent don't go near the office. They go direct from the UK to the home address.
I believe they are there for marketing and or returns?

Anyway, regardless of the excuses they will come up with, the charging of literally thousands of dollars more for Limited Editions and Hundreds for others is beyond the pale.

Utopia?

Being charged the 'world rate' that Japanese, Samoans, Indonesians and what my other Asian customers pay (ie the UK rate)

Postage: please do not rip us off Folio. It's bad enough the hefty hike in cover value of the books but the postage too? Come on.

If anyone thinks that I am making a mountain out of a molehill, consider this......

With the half price book sale on, we Australian residents are getting prices done to roughly to what you in the UK get for FULL PRICE!!!!!!!

I'd like to think there is something more moral or ethical about FS pricing, but I think it is just a question of market power.

Basically, there are two micro-economic principles at work here.

The first is inequality of information. Information posted on other threads indicates that the FS still sells most of its books by traditional non-internet means. On top of that, I suspect that very few of the 115,000 or so members of the FS know of this thread or are aware of how they can compare the sterling price with the local price for residents of Australia/USA/Canada/NZ on the internet. So they do not know how much of a premium they are paying for these books.

The second is that of charging what the market will bear to provide the maximum profit. The current prices charged to residents of the former colonies clearly reflect a fine balance between how many books they can sell and the amount of profit they can make on each one. No doubt there would be a number of FS employees who monitor this forum (the people or persons who we refer to as 'the Mole' and they report on any issues that would threaten the marketability or profits of the FS. The fact that they have done nothing to date indicates to me that there is nothing to be done until a lot more of those members out there become internet savvy.

I don't like it. I do feel ripped off. And it is made worse by the specious arguments that the FS puts to justify its pricing policy.

That said, FS books are not a necessity of life and I can choose not to buy from the FS or (as in fact I do) buy most of my books on eBay at good prices. So I feel I have at least some power in this transaction. I also try and comfort myself by imagining that the people who are responsible for creating the splendid FS publications are not the same people as the clowns who market them.

So while I share Les Miserables' outrage (I do have an oversensitivity to unfairness), I have personally been a little quieter than him.

And on the principle of 'don't get angry, get even' for those of you who don't know Book Depository often sells to Australians those Cambridge, Oxford and other third party publications at substantially less than FS charges, even on special.

For example, the latest publication - the Cambridge History of the Cold War is $475 plus $25 postage from the FS; on Book depository it is $426.36 including postage (and yes, that is the precise cost charged in Australian dollars - no credit card surcharges, etc).

Other examples are Oxford Dictionary of the Middle Ages (FS - included in the Summer Sale at $850 plus postage; BD - $564.01 inclusive!) and Cambridge History of Russia (FS - discounted by $300 to $575 plus freight; BD$448.18 inclusive).

Cheers

>262 LesMiserables:

Les Mis, I can assure you that there is no NIMBYism on my part. I fully support your argument that the price you pay for the books should be the same as the price that I pay.

I thought that you were saying in your previous post that you had found that you were being ripped off by the FS on postage costs, but from the figures you have presented, that doesn't seem to be the case - you managed to find postage at just £1 less, which is pretty insignificant.

You believe that postage to the UK is subsidised by the FS, but I'm really not sure that that is true. Nowadays there is quite fierce competition between inland courier companies over here, and large contracts obtain significant reductions. Postage and packing costs from many companies are way below the costs that I, as an individual, would pay, and I can't believe that it is all subsidised. I just think they are given cut-price costs by the couriers because they can guarantee a large throughput. (I also notice that the FS use more than one courier within the UK - my LE came via one company, my other purchases via another - is this also to do with what they could get the best deal on?)

I don't think there is quite the same competition between couriers exporting to Australia (or anywhere else for that matter). But I may be wrong.

But let me repeat that I am all for you paying the same basic costs as me (plus "appropriate" postage, which may indeed be £57 if my experience of sending parcels to Australia is anything to go by). I am sure that if I lived in Australia, then I would not be a member of FS!

>264 LesMiserables:-265-266.
Methinks you would need a joint indonesian account.
And then re-post to Australia. Someone who has an office there.
If, joining efforts, you were able to do that, then you'd break their placement power..
Devil is in the detail though.

I'm thinking about a second sale order: To Kill a Mockingbird and The Human Factor are already in the basket, and I'm thinking about adding Barlow's Thomas Becket. Does anyone have this and if so, what is it like? Thanks.

I'm prejudiced in Barlow's favour, as he was my wife's professor and she a favoured pupil. The book was first published in 1986, and went through revisions - the FS edition is that from 1997, but shorn of its scholarly apparatus. It's a middle-of-the-road FS offering, decent typeface (plantin) and binding, with orthodox photographic illustrations of medieval architecture and manuscripts/illuminations. Barlow writes with authority on this period, and with insight into a man who is more complex and three-dimensional than many rather flat characters from medieval history. Can't go very far wrong at half price, which is about what slightly worn copies go for in the after market.

Thanks affle - I don't want anything particularly scholarly so this sounds just the job.

Has the Summer Sale ended or did it just disappear for me, i.e. website anomaly?

It's appearing on my end here in the U.S. When is the sale slated to end?

It's also available here in Spain.

The Crossley-Holland 'Arthur' trilogy is now available on the website.
The FS website really is awful! I went on to the site, and to the section listed 'Latest Titles' - no sign of these books. Went into search and typed in 'Crossley-Holland'. This did list the books. Clicked on one of the new titles and took a look at the section it was said to be listed under. Yes, you guessed it, 'Latest Titles'! Still no sign of the books when clicking on the section though.
Anyway, thanks Huxley for signalling these. I think I might wait and use them for my renewals.

> 274 You'll find them listed under the "New Sets and Special Editions" tab. They are there either individually, undiscounted, or as the set with the 16% discount. If it's of any use to anyone, I placed my order by phone and got the sale price of £13.45 on the Seeing Stone and a discount price of £22.95 each on the other two - £59.35 in total, which saves quite a bit against the listed set price.

>275 HuxleyTheCat:
From here in the US, I did a search on "Crossley-Holland" and found several listings, including "The Seeing Stone" for the sale price and a second listing for full price, the 3 volume set at the discounted price, and the other two volumes separately at the full price.

However, if I add up the sale price on volume 1 and the full price for volumes 2 and 3, I end up with a total price within US$2 of the discounted set price. I'm not sure, but I believe they will charge me a per-volume shipping rate, so, even after including shipping, the difference in buying the set at a discount and buying the three individuals with volume 1 discounted is insignificant.

Was thinking about buying "The Seeing Stone" on sale now, but will probably just buy the set sometime down the road (I hope at a discount or as part of some other offer).

One thing I like about the first volume, at least, is that the number of illustrations is nearly 10 percent of the number of pages (not quite so good a ratio on the subsequent volumes). I generally am underwhelmed by FS editions with less than 1 illustration per 20 pages (the LE Aeneid, for example at about 1 per 30 pages), and consider 1 in 15 or better to be (generally) my standard. There are, of course, other factors that can trump this standard.

Os.

272,273: Thanks, it came up again.

BTW, I'm a bit disappointed with the free address book, of which I have two copies now and a third is on its way. I would have preferred something more in the line of the Folio diary with lots more (better quality) illustrations and in color. Instead of three I would have been happier with just one of those.

>277 cdekeule:

Vive la difference. I liked it. I agree that there are not many illustrations, but it is well made, practical, with many pages and a good size to sit by the telephone. it is better than the umbrella, which I found too flimsy to be of any practical use.

> 262 and I can't believe that it is all subsidised.

Just an update for those interested (mainly the Australian residents etc)

This order here......

Folio Address Book
History of Western Music
Walden
Easy & Not-So-Easy Pieces
The Blind Watchmaker
Climbing Mount Improbable
Unweaving the Rainbow
The Natural History of Selborne

which is a relatively heavy potential order of around 13k is quoted in the basket as being charged to.....

Australia £57.00 (converted)

UK £5.95
el from
Now even though I think the Australian £57.00 postage is very steep and the FS should be able to give a much better rate (I mean why else do we have a local office?), that is not the point here.

The UK £5.95 postage is definitely subsidised for a 13kg parcel for mainland UK first class.

Ergo, as I made the point earlier, the UK customers are not paying "the going rate' but subsidised by the society. The society is the membership which is everyone else. Effectively the Australian (primarily) customers and the US and Canada are paying well over the odds for the books and the postage and in my opinion keeping costs down for the UK operation.

One final question mole.

WE pay through the nose for a LOCAL office.

Why are we not paying LOCAL postage then?

What exactly is the LOCAL office for?

>279 LesMiserables:
We actually have no means of knowing how postage is costed. Yes, the £5.95 may be subsidised, but on the other hand the volume of mail that the FS sends out in the UK may well obtain them discount rates from the company/companies they use; the competition for high volume contracts is pretty fierce at present (or so a friend of mine in the business tells me). Equally, the subsidy (if there is one) may well simply be cross-subsidy within domestic postage (which to my layman's mind is the most likely scenario: contract price spread across parcels fairly evenly).
So, as far as I can see, your suggestion that Australian, US and Canadians are helping keep the costs down for the UK operation, has little, if any, foundation, other than guesswork.
Incidentally, whilst I have every sympathy with your plight, I've just done a quick lookup on the Royal Mail site: at their cheapest rate (Global Economy), the cost of a 13kg parcel to Australia is quoted as £107, a bit more than the £57 you appear to be being charged.

>280 Willoyd:

I suppose this issue could go on for some time yet, but I can't resist throwing in my five bob's worth (two bob's worth adjusted for Australian customers).

I don't know what the negotiated rates are, but if the Royal Mail gives a special rate for UK customers, it is logical that there is also a special rate for non-UK customers. I am fairly convinced that non-UK customers provide a quite disproportionate amount of profits, not on the basis of the postage rates, but on the basis of other posts in LT that indicate just how much of the profit comes from non-UK sources.

My theory - and it is just that in the absence of evidence - is that the UK operation is intended to be a break-even exercise, with profit (like cream) coming from non-UK sources. Without access to the FS accounts it can't be proved, but the mark-ups for overseas buyers would tend to suggest this theory is correct.

Edited to add PS: Les Miserables noted earlier that the courier (door-to-door) rate for 13kg is £56, so you would have to be pretty stupid to pay more than twice that. I'e never thought the FS marketing side stupid. Bizarre yes; stupid no!

280> Incidentally, whilst I have every sympathy with your plight, I've just done a quick lookup on the Royal Mail site: at their cheapest rate (Global Economy), the cost of a 13kg parcel to Australia is quoted as £107, a bit more than the £57 you appear to be being charged.

They would not of course pay this however would they?

If it took me 3 minutes to find a courier to door-to-door a one-off parcel for £56, then surely the Folio Society Operations Manager could beat that dramatically after doing an extensive amount of research on cost efficiencies and tendering contracts out to competing carriers?

If I was to approach my previous post and articulate differently: rather than suggest that customers outside the UK subsidise those within, I might say that those outside make a massive margin for Folio compared to their UK counterparts.

This 'everlasting' debate is in danger of obscuring the main issue behind too much detail - "can't see the wood for the trees"!

It is a fact that Folio Society books cost much more in some countries when compared to the UK.

Reasons have been sought from the Society and they have responded in a way that has not been convincing.

If there is a 'mole' on this forum it seems to me that it is about time they had another go at answering this question or changing their policy.

They would not of course pay this however would they?
Exactly. The same argument applies to UK domestic rates. If I can send a couple of FS books at less than their multi-book charge, then I'm sure they can too, even when more books are involved. Which is what the main thrust of my argument was - that UK domestic charges cannot be said to be subsidised by foreign postage charges. Even more so when you compare the high volume business generated in the UK compared to postage from UK to Australia.
I'm not saying for one second that the postage rates to Australia are what they should be (I don't know enough to say one way or another). All my argument is that one cannot say that the UK market is subsidised by the foreign market, which is what your post 279 suggests.
The issue of differential prices of books is another one - they look outrageously higher for non-UK members, and the reasons given look pretty specious - and I'd agree totally with your last para in >282 LesMiserables:.

> 283

The crux of the problem is celtic why Indonesians (our neighbours) pay around...

£7,895.00 for St Albans Psalter

whilst Australians pay

£9,930.00

Over £2000+ markup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shocking

> 284 All my argument is that one cannot say that the UK market is subsidised by the foreign market, which is what your post 279 suggests.

I have rephrased this in 282 above

If I was to approach my previous post and articulate differently: rather than suggest that customers outside the UK subsidise those within, I might say that those outside make a massive margin for Folio compared to their UK counterparts.

Thanks

It seems to me that it would be cheaper for Australian members to partner up with someone in the UK, who would order books, then send on to their Australian counterpart, with the Australian paying their UK partner.

Or am I being naive?

I pay 4 pounds sterling (don't have the symbol in my keyboard, sorry) per volume shipped, charged at the going rate for the euro (€, do have this one). How do I compare?

> 288 Pretty reasonable I reckon. UK rates are £3.95 for one volume, £5.95 for multi-volumes. Adds up a bit with larger orders though!

>285 LesMiserables:

You're right. Even though it is factual, it is so large a differential it looks ridiculous and for all of the discussion that has taken place I can't work out how anyone could justify price differences on this scale. Some people may think that you are wrong to pick the most expensive book on the site, but I believe that is precisely the way to get the point home.

I, amongst many others, have spoken about how we love the way The Folio Society operates its Business and how proud we are to be associated with them. Even though I live in the UK I am dismayed with this pricing policy, because it doesn't seem to fit with the ethos of the Business I am so impressed with.

I hear a lot of talk in England about the notion of 'Fair Play' - doesn't appear to be a guiding principle here!

>291 supercell:

Wow. Talk about stirring things up! Using Finland is a terrible example because Finns pay the UK equivalent price for the books themselves, not the Aussie/US/Canada/NZ premium price.

#291
There are clearly two separate issues here; the cost of the books themselves and the cost of postage. I don't think anyone is disputing the charge that the Australian price differential on the actual books is outrageous. About the postage, though, I feel that it's par for the course.

As supercell says, compare that £58 for postage to Australia, with the £48 they charge for other EU countries. Someone 100 miles up the road from me in Belfast would pay the flat rate £6 or whatever, and I'd have to pay £48. In terms of distance from SE England, both deliveries involve one ferry journey, but I think I'm marginally closer in terms of distance.

Of course distance is not the only factor, and crossing an international border obviously complicates things in terms of insurance. Still, if you're looking for overcharging on postage, I think that Australia isn't the best example.

> 292

The example is not indicative or helpful in my opinion. (no offensive intended)

I also don't get the Finland to Australia thing. That is irrelevant as the FS ship from the UK.

Again the postage is an issue but not THE issue. It is the price of the books compared to what my pacific neighbours pay.

> 295

Basically, you have very little to complain about the P&P. Since the Rest of the World pays a uniform postage

Thanks for your comments. However this matters not. When it comes to postage, it is not that we are all paying the same, but that are paying a fair price for the service.

My simple point is, that I as a FS customer can get a package of 13kg delivered door to door for £56 by a simple 3 minute internet search.

The Folio Society can't beat this? Oh, please!

Afterword. The reason why the Finland example is not accurate is that the UK is a much more competitive market with a much greater population base with a far larger selection of Air Transportation hubs; all which reduce costs dramatically.

>296 LesMiserables:

People will argue forever about the cost of postage.

It's the significant differential in price of the books that is the primary issue here.

I do not think you will get any reasonable argument about that?

As the token Christian guy here, ouch

>298 supercell:

Gee supercell, after reading all the blogs for the coming Australian election you may have a point!

A little more seriously though, it is a bit unfair to make a silly generalisation about all 20 million Australians based on the comments of two of us. And while I have tried to avoid being personal, I could not let the outrageous insult in your post go unanswered because I always rise to the bait of an illogical nonsense argument.

PS. Given the anomaly pointed out in Eveleen's post (293) I am still struggling to understand what freight rates from Finland to anywhere have to do with this discussion.

>300 vat1sem:

"I am still struggling to understand what freight rates from Finland to anywhere have to do with this discussion."

Probably the reason we don't get the really good Finnish canned sardines in the US any more.

> 296

Australians seem to have a lot in common with Christian fundamentalists; no amount of evidence will ever make them shift their position.

Evidence? You have uncovered some? Sorry I must have missed that.

Australians = Christian fundamentalists? I'm sure that those Aussies reading this will be quite impressed by your low brow lunge. Nevertheless, not being Australian myself, I'll leave that for them to open their pocket pocket and scratch a name in.

> 298

Quite!

>291 supercell: and others...

If I purchased 13kg of books from The Book Depository I would receive a substantial discount on RRP - in the case of Oxford and Cambridge books well under the Special price from the Folio Society. And these 13 kg of books would be air mailed and couriered to my door in Australia for FREE. Each book in the 13kg shipment would be individually mailed in its own separate shipment - sounds like the most expensive method possible doesn't it? And yet it is absolutely free.

Now the Folio Society ships in M Bags which, I believe, is the absolute cheapest way of shipping printed matter by air. And yet the Book Depository can ship at 60GBP less than the FS even though BD is using the most expensive method possible and FS is using the cheapest. Odd don't you think?

At the end of the day, the outrageous prices mean less sales and more unhappy customers. If the Folio Society can build a market out of that then good luck to them.

Consider Easton Press for example, Australians pay the same price as everybody else and shipping is around US$10. Library of America charge the same price to everybody and shipping is capped at $24.50 regardless of the number of books (takes a few weeks though, but then so do the FS shipments).

As you can probably tell I have spent a fair bit of money with Easton Press, LOA and especially US eBay - money that the Folio Society could have had. But, no doubt they know what they're doing, as do I.

Edit >291 supercell:... just reread your post. You are comparing the shipping cost from Finland to other countries with the cost of shipping from the UK to those same other countries - no reason why they should be comparable. You are also, I assume perhaps wrongly, comparing the cost of a one off shipment from a private individual with the cost of a shipment from a corporate shipper who ships often. Again, not comparable.

> 510

Ah! So that is the evidence! How compelling.

Anyway. The fact remains that there is a huge difference in what you pay out of your pocket regardless of postage when you live in Australia, US, Canada etc.

It seems that the only one or two upset by these points being raised on these boards are not subject to these punitive price hikes: they pay the UK/World Price for a book.

I would suggest that all of us here send an email to the Folio Society and again complain about the lack of equity.

My first question will be: "What exactly does my 'local' office do for me?"

It would be great also if some members not subject to these price hikes would find the time to pop off a quick email in support.

Cheers

Your local FS office is most likely a P(issed).O(ff). Box which is quite appropriate considering how I feel about them right now.

306: I say we flood their phones; 10 calls a day; same script (Les Mis you compose).

We did the emails already and know how successful that was...

> 308

I'm not the person for this I'm afraid. I do believe we should complain if we feel we are being discriminated against when compared with our fellow members, but for me we should do this individually and with our own personal slant on the issues that exist for us.

Thanks though for your confidence! ;-)

Okay; just an idea; probably wouldn't make any difference anyway.

Its time for the Summer Sale to end. My wallet can't handle any more. I just picked up "At Back of the North Wind", a title I've put in and out of my shopping basket for months, until now. I did manage to restrain myself to just 3 books in this sale. Still waiting on "The Mandarins" and enjoying "The Oregon Trail" immensely.

> 312

Why did you delete your messages, Supercell ?

Summer Sale has gone from website in Blighty.
I still spent too much!

>315 LesMiserables: Ditto Australia.