John Betjeman

Betjeman's poetical works are frequently seen as nostalgic, playful and light. However, his life was intense: he was appointed Poet Laureate, extended his activities to architectural criticism in search of an artistic canon and even participated in covert political activities compiling reports on the IRA. According to some commentators he died troubled by loneliness and the fear of death. The Times referred to him on his passing away in 1984 as "a teddy bear to the nation." I don't believe that FS has published any of his poetry but I may be wrong. How is he viewed now? Is his 'Summoned by Bells' read in schools or his poetry studied?

FS published a book of his poems in 2005, and a book called Betjeman's Britain in 1999. I'm afraid I've no idea about whether he's read in schools.

Edited to add a touchstone, and this link to the poetry book:
http://www.librarything.com/work/1524543

> I don't believe that FS has published any of his poetry but I may be wrong.
I have a rather attractive edition of Selected Poems, published by the FS in 2004, with drawings by Peter Bailey - I think they suit the text perfectly.

> 2, 3

Thanks a lot for the information. I stand corrected, and will start looking for that edition. This forum is fantastic and so very helpful!

> 2, 3

Just found a copy offered on ebay and have purchased it. I already have Betjeman's book on Britain. Thanks again.

> 1

I second all the comments about Betjeman. Yes, he was "nostalgic, playful and light" - when he wanted to be. And at the same time, some of his poems are so full of melancholy and pathos. I was first introduced to him at school when we read "Death in Leamington," which has that lightness, but is remarkably sad.

>3 Willoyd:

And I fully agree with the comments about the FS collection of Betjeman's Selected Poems - it is a lovely volume, complemented by a perfect combination of drawings by Peter Bailey along with photographs.

> 6

Thank you, RMMee. It does look like a very attractive edition. I missed that one back in 2004. Do you know if Betjeman's current standing and reputation backs him as still an important poet?

>7 drasvola:

To be honest, no, I don't know how he is generally regarded nowadays. He is one of my favourite 20th century poets, and I also enjoyed some of the television programmes he presented when I was young (all nostalgic). But whether he is now thought of as passé, I would have to be guided by others.

Robert

I really liked the recordings of Betjeman reading his poetry over the music of Jim Parker's trad jazz sound. Of those who saw it, who could forget the interview with Betjeman in old age in a wheel chair on a cliff top and his interviewer asking him if he would do anything differently if he had his time again. The old boy gamely replied, "Yes - more sex!"

Selected Poems is wonderful and includes my two all time favourite (and very different) Betjamin poems; The Small Towns Of Ireland and Seaside Golf.

>7 drasvola: Do come back and tell us what you think, drasvola. His poems have some charm, but I find it hard to think of him as a serious poet: the undoubted wit and technique are, for me, not matched by any indications of a mind I want to spend much reflective time with. So, light and amusing, yes; more than that, I may be in a minority that thinks,no.

Except for his book-length autobiography, written in blank verse, his poetry rhymes, which even in his lifetime was pretty much enough to debar him from being regarded as serious. But he influenced, and was admired by, Philip Larkin; google 'Larkin + Betjeman' and inter alia you'll come up with a lovely YouTube clip of the two of them in Hull Cemetery (alive and kicking, I hasten to add, not speaking in Hardyesque fashion from beneath the sod). They shared interests, death and sex not the least of them.

I like the FS volume, though the charm of Paul Bailey's drawings perhaps does the poems a disservice. If by serious one means great, no, Betjeman isn't; but his themes are often serious, and he is more than a merely charming writer - I find his real terror of ageing and of death (particularly of dying alone) refuses to be caged by his deft technique, and becomes my fear whenever I have to go to hospital (from whose bourn I'm always convinced I will never return, even when I'm just visiting a patient!).

PS I would definitely buy an FS Collected Larkin!

I would definitely buy an FS Collected Larkin!

What an excellent suggestion!

He certainly used to be studied in schools - I remember doing "A subaltern's love song", "Essex", and other poems of his for Eng Lit "O" level (a few decades ago, now...). And there was a Betjeman selection (including parts of Summoned by Bells) on the syllabus of at least one of the Open University literature courses I took.

I'm a bit out of touch with current attitudes. About 15-20 years ago when I was still in contact with the "poetry crowd," opinion seemed to be very mixed: there were unashamed Betjeman fans about, but also people who admired him for his technical skill but were embarrassed by his Oxbridge/Home Counties/High Anglican version of Englishness, and others who considered him irrelevant except as a bad influence on amateur poets.

He did write an awful lot of rubbish, but he probably got it right more often than most lyric poets, managing to write good poems that grabbed the popular imagination and still work fifty or sixty years on. His TV work looks very dated now, but he gave viewers a lot of pleasure with it, and made "the Victorians" popular again. Even if his attempts to revive interest in Victorian ecclesiastical architecture didn't have a lasting popular impact, he did indirectly make it respectable to be interested in industrial history.

Betjeman made the great mistake of making his poetry accessible and enjoyable, which automatically debars a writer from serious attention in some critical quarters.

Tortured and seriousness go hand in hand. Yet, from what I'm reading, Betjeman's struggle had to do mostly with insufficient private means and longing for acceptance into the upper, aristocratic classes. He was denied the access that he felt he was entitled to. He tried very hard but was never really one of them. Regarding his jocular comment about his sexual live, I believe that to be a classical understatement. Betjeman maintained a practically bigamous relationship and, according to some reports, flirted around actively. His "fault" was in connection more with "old-fashioned" Victorian values and an England out of phase with contemporary developments. Many people remember with affection his performances on the BBC.
I'll expand these comments after I get the FS volume.

>15 boldface: Kipling made the same mistake of writing accessible and enjoyable poetry, without being excluded from consideration as a serious poet. He sits without too much strain among the Folio Poets, where Betjeman plainly does not belong. So why should Betjeman be taken seriously? The kind of world and values thorold and drasvola describe are not the places I want to go with poetry, so I'll continue to enjoy him at a popular, quick read level, and not look for more, unless persuaded there is something to find.

Why is it that we strive to analyze and dissect books and poems? Is it not enough to read books for readings sake? Or to recite poems out loud just for the sheer pleasure of hearing the rhyming effects in our solitude?

> 18 This thread in part is addressing drasvola's question of whether Betjeman's poetry is studied in schools. Is your point that all literature studies should be struck from school curricula, and university literature departments disbanded?

Absolutel not. Just making the point, not very well, that sometimes its not necessary to analyze to enjoy.

>14 thorold: "Even if his attempts to revive interest in Victorian ecclesiastical architecture didn't have a lasting popular impact, he did indirectly make it respectable to be interested in industrial history."

BTW this gives him ..an interesting, contemporary and bizarre, steampunk subculture drift.. :-^)

Give him a try with the younger generations, drasvola..:)

I know nothing of Betjeman's poetry, and very little more than that of the man himself (Poet Laureate, friend of Philip Larkin--this much I learned from looking him up as a reviewer of Barbara Pym's Excellent Women). But I have to say that anyone who can inspire the quote:

"Even if his attempts to revive interest in Victorian ecclesiastical architecture didn't have a lasting popular impact..."

is someone I should make an effort to know better!

>17 affle:
Fair enough: I certainly wouldn't claim that Betjeman was in the same league as Kipling. Chesterton is probably nearer the mark if you're looking for someone to compare with B.

>22 Django6924:
Have a look for clips from his TV output on YouTube. A.N. Wilson's biography Betjeman is very good on his architectural and religious side, if a bit too gushing about his Mitford and Cavendish connections.

Speaking of Chesterton, one book which I keep forgetting to mention when we are talking about books Folio should produce, is his amazing novel, The Man Who Was Thursday. I read this as an undergraduate in a pairing with Conrad's The Secret Agent, and I was even more impressed with Chesterton's strange story. Has this book had a similar effect on anyone else?

> 24

I love both of those novels. Strangely enough, both of them have the same dream like hallucinogenic quality about them - Chesterton even more so, but it's there in the Conrad as well. But I prefer the Secret Agent.

Everymans Library have a very nice Chesterton Omnibus coming out soon.

> 11, 12, 14, 18 and others

Continuing with Betjeman...

I have received the FS edition of the selected poems. I find the book very attractive and the combination of drawings and photographs fits very well with the subjects selected.

Regarding the several points made above, perhaps it would be appropiate to reflect on changing tastes and fashions. A poet who was highly regarded at one point goes downhill in his reputation but then is resurrected 30 or 40 years after his death.

Betjeman chose to present his painful feelings couched in a light, humourous tone which quickly becomes somber, to wit:

"Walking from school is a consummate art:
Which route to follow to avoid the gangs,
Which paths to find that lead, circuitous,
To leafy squirrel haunts and plopping ponds,
For dreams of Archibald and Tiger Tim;
Which hiding place is safe, and when it is;
What time to leave to dodge the enemy.
I only once was trapped. I knew the trap -
I heard it in their tones: "Walk back with us."
I knew they weren't my friends; but that soft voice
Wheedled me from my route to cold Swain's Lane.
There in a holly bush they threw me down,
Pulled off my shorts, and laughed and ran away;
And, as I struggled up, I saw grey brick,
The cemetery railings and the tomb."

This fragment from his blank verse autobiography shows his style perfectly. It can be read as an example of inconsequent, prankish behaviour or as a cruel instance of what we can expect from life and our fellow human beings. In a few, short glimpses we have a description of the full scope of realities from childhood to death. It is for the reader to decide whether to laugh or despair or, in fact, do both.

Needless to say, in my opinion, Betjeman should be brought back to the literary curricula.

"Needless to say, in my opinion, Betjeman should be brought back to the literary curricula."

I'll drink to that!

Just added to my collection an edition of Summoned by Bells published in 1962 by the UK's Readers Union. A fine example of solid binding and first-class printing with drawings by Michael Tree. I believe that some other FS devotees have this same edition, and probably would agree with me that book publishing quality criteria for hardbound books has gone downhill in the past half century.