1kdweber
How much more are you willing to pay for an LEC with the newsletter or HP with a copy of The Sandglass all other issues being equal (e.g. condition of the book or slip case)? It's around $5 for me.
2Django6924
Well, I once paid $25 on e-bay for a Monthly Letter (for Sinclair Lewis' Main Street), but that was an exception. Normally I'd pay up to $10 more.
3sakayume
I don't think I'm a serious enough collector (yet!) to buy the Monthly Letter or Sandglass separately, but in searching for a copy, I do take into account the presence or absence of the Monthly Letter/Sandglass. I probably wouldn't buy a Heritage Press book without the Sandglass, unless I couldn't find another copy in good condition. But with LEC titles, there's a smaller pool to choose from so I'm less picky. I'd probably pay $5 - $10 more as well, but the Monthly Letter isn't as important to me as the slipcase (which is almost a must for me).
4chase.donaldson
10-12 dollars for me. I've seen them go as high as 30 or so on ebay, which is pretty incredible. Recently, I have been a horrible person on ebay, and I have been squirreling away the Monthly Letters which I get for books I plan to resell to yield me a little extra personal book buying money, and I plan to list just the letters themselves later. I hate it when people do that, but I suppose stuff like that is just business. On a similar note, I was HORRIFIED to find that I had bought a Ben Shahn limited edition of Ecclesiastes, but that the illustrations themselves had been cannabalized and sold to the highest bidder. I think that there is a difference between what I am doing and what that person did, but maybe some will disagree with me?
5kdweber
>4 chase.donaldson: Cannabalizing the illustrations MUST be noted in the description or it's fraud. You shouldn't have told us you separate out the newsletter, grrrr. The important thing is to note condition, slipcase, newsletter etc. and then the buyer can judge what they're willing to pay for what you're offering.
I once bought an old copy of Juvenal's Satires (1807) that had been nicely rebound in leather. Later I noticed that it was actually an illustrated copy but all of the illustrations had been removed. I lament the loss of the illustrations but it's still a nice copy of Juvenal.
I once bought an old copy of Juvenal's Satires (1807) that had been nicely rebound in leather. Later I noticed that it was actually an illustrated copy but all of the illustrations had been removed. I lament the loss of the illustrations but it's still a nice copy of Juvenal.
6ironjaw
I frown upon the fact that you are choosing to separate the letter from the book to sell it for more, but I guess it is your choice. I would not. It just makes it harder for the rest of us who are not buying books for investment purposes but to enjoy them aesthetically and intellectually.
7Django6924
Sorry to say, chase, I believe if you buy a book with ephemera, the ephemera should stay with it if you resell or give it away. I see little difference between scavenging the Monthly Letter and removing an illustration.
8chase.donaldson
I think the issue, for me anyway, is that the ephemera is not actually a part of the book. It was not intended to stay with the book, as the illustrations are, and therefore is fair game to separate. It was printed separate from the book, and therefore is just a supplement; each book may have its own ephemera that came from the LEC, but that doesn't mean to me that it isn't transferrable to others who might want it more than the person who buys the book. I have talked with multiple ebay LEC buyers and sellers who, when I ask about the letter, say that they pitch it or have pitched it, respectively. Any idea on the penance for such a sin?
9Django6924
>8 chase.donaldson:
It may not be part of the book physically, but it was part of the book when you bought it, and if you didn't feel it a desirable part of the package, then why didn't you pitch it or tell the seller to keep it?
Sorry, I don't want to be argumentative, but I think it would only be right to keep it if you asked the person to whom you sold the book whether they would mind if you kept it.
It may not be part of the book physically, but it was part of the book when you bought it, and if you didn't feel it a desirable part of the package, then why didn't you pitch it or tell the seller to keep it?
Sorry, I don't want to be argumentative, but I think it would only be right to keep it if you asked the person to whom you sold the book whether they would mind if you kept it.
10Texaco
I'ma cut you some slack cause I know what it's like to be a medical student trying to make ends meet (not me but my baby brother), but the penance for such a sin should be your being banned from ebay.
11Texaco
I should also add that as a person who has purchased books via ebay from you in the past (the LE FS War and Peace purchased about a year ago was me) that I immediately checked to see that my ephemera (What is War and Peace) was included. It was, but you can pretty much imagine how I'd feel (and I'd say to you right now) if it wasn't.
12olepuppy
I don't think that the 'What is War and Peace' booklet is ephemeral, it is included in the solander box and is part of the original sale advertisement and its presence or lack thereof should be noted by a knowledgeable seller.
I don't know how original Sandglass or LEC monthly letters were sent. To me, if they were inside the respective volumes upon receipt in the mail then they belong inside tho they are not bound in. If they were in the packing carton or a mailing envelope but outside the book then they are not a part of the book.
Irregardless of whatever fine line of whatever opinion to which one subscribes, it's a pain in the buttocks not to have a Sandglass or Monthly Letter with a Heritage or LEC edition. I have finally found some nice Heritage editions locally and in some cases have held off buying when without Sandglass because I want to know the background of the book's production and I want to 'hear' GM's 'voice'.
I don't know how original Sandglass or LEC monthly letters were sent. To me, if they were inside the respective volumes upon receipt in the mail then they belong inside tho they are not bound in. If they were in the packing carton or a mailing envelope but outside the book then they are not a part of the book.
Irregardless of whatever fine line of whatever opinion to which one subscribes, it's a pain in the buttocks not to have a Sandglass or Monthly Letter with a Heritage or LEC edition. I have finally found some nice Heritage editions locally and in some cases have held off buying when without Sandglass because I want to know the background of the book's production and I want to 'hear' GM's 'voice'.
13Django6924
>12 olepuppy:
The Sandglass pamphlets came inside the book. (As a side note, I recently purchased a copy of the Heritage Gargantua and Pantagruel with Lynd Ward's illustrations, still in the original shipping box (which I've kept). The Sandglass was tucked between the front endpapers, which is how all my Heritage Press books came when I was a subscriber--from 1964--1973 and from 1982--1998.)
The Monthly Letters came the month prior to the book being shipped in a separate mailing envelope (some of which I have), and I have to differ with you that they aren't part of the book--you didn't get them unless you were a subscriber and they obviously contain information about the book's production that add to the intrinsic value of the book itself.
The Sandglass pamphlets came inside the book. (As a side note, I recently purchased a copy of the Heritage Gargantua and Pantagruel with Lynd Ward's illustrations, still in the original shipping box (which I've kept). The Sandglass was tucked between the front endpapers, which is how all my Heritage Press books came when I was a subscriber--from 1964--1973 and from 1982--1998.)
The Monthly Letters came the month prior to the book being shipped in a separate mailing envelope (some of which I have), and I have to differ with you that they aren't part of the book--you didn't get them unless you were a subscriber and they obviously contain information about the book's production that add to the intrinsic value of the book itself.
14beatlemoon
>13 Django6924:
Now wait a minute. You're saying that if ephemera came with the book that chase shouldn't be holding onto it and selling it as a separate piece. But now you say that the monthly letters arrived a month before the book. That makes them a completely separate thing. How many people probably threw out the letter before the book even arrived?
There are a finite number of Monthly Letters left in the world, and that number appears to be smaller than the number of books left, so I can't say that I blame chase for hanging on to what letters he finds, if he feels he can make more money selling them as singular items. As long as he notes precisely what the book does or does not include, I see nothing wrong with it.
The Sandglass, on the other hand, came inside the book and therefore is part of the book and should not be sold separately. (Unless, of course, one finds a stray somewhere and wants to make it available to someone missing a Sandglass for that volume).
Now wait a minute. You're saying that if ephemera came with the book that chase shouldn't be holding onto it and selling it as a separate piece. But now you say that the monthly letters arrived a month before the book. That makes them a completely separate thing. How many people probably threw out the letter before the book even arrived?
There are a finite number of Monthly Letters left in the world, and that number appears to be smaller than the number of books left, so I can't say that I blame chase for hanging on to what letters he finds, if he feels he can make more money selling them as singular items. As long as he notes precisely what the book does or does not include, I see nothing wrong with it.
The Sandglass, on the other hand, came inside the book and therefore is part of the book and should not be sold separately. (Unless, of course, one finds a stray somewhere and wants to make it available to someone missing a Sandglass for that volume).
15chase.donaldson
>9 Django6924:
No worries about the argumentation. I'm someone with a thick skin and who tends to like a good discussion, so this is all in good fun for me. I do feel the monthly letter is a desirable part of the book, and so I do one of two things: I either keep it for myself and my copy of the book or, as I have recently done after I bought a large lot of the same LEC, I separate the monthly letters and sell the books, and then I plan on selling the letters. I always advertise the books as not having letters included, so its not like I'm being dishonest.
No worries about the argumentation. I'm someone with a thick skin and who tends to like a good discussion, so this is all in good fun for me. I do feel the monthly letter is a desirable part of the book, and so I do one of two things: I either keep it for myself and my copy of the book or, as I have recently done after I bought a large lot of the same LEC, I separate the monthly letters and sell the books, and then I plan on selling the letters. I always advertise the books as not having letters included, so its not like I'm being dishonest.
16chase.donaldson
I definitely agree that anything that comes IN the book needs to stay with the book, so I wouldn't dream of separating out the Folio Society LE materials (like What is War and Peace). I keep all of my Folio mailings, which are exclusive to the subscribers, so would it be a problem to sell an LE and then sell the announcement and prospectus afterwards?
17Django6924
>14 beatlemoon:
I don't get your point. If you buy an LEC from a bookstore and it came with the Monthly Letter, because the previous owner felt it added value and kept it with the book, then I believe it should stay with the book when you resell it. It's very much like the Texas oilman who bought a Craftsman house, took out the Tiffany windows and light fixtures and replaced them with ersatz copies, then sold the house and the Tiffany objects separately.
It doesn't make any difference how many original subscribers threw out their Monthly Letters (and apparently not that many did); once the original subscriber or his or her heirs sells the book with the Monthly Letter enclosed, it should stay with the book.
There's nothing illegal about what chase is doing, of course.
I don't get your point. If you buy an LEC from a bookstore and it came with the Monthly Letter, because the previous owner felt it added value and kept it with the book, then I believe it should stay with the book when you resell it. It's very much like the Texas oilman who bought a Craftsman house, took out the Tiffany windows and light fixtures and replaced them with ersatz copies, then sold the house and the Tiffany objects separately.
It doesn't make any difference how many original subscribers threw out their Monthly Letters (and apparently not that many did); once the original subscriber or his or her heirs sells the book with the Monthly Letter enclosed, it should stay with the book.
There's nothing illegal about what chase is doing, of course.
18beatlemoon
>17 Django6924:
I'm not sure I get your point. I'm simply saying that, like chase, I see the objects as two separate things. One is a piece of mail, the other is a book. They complement one another nicely, but were never packaged together as a whole item. It's the current owner's prerogative whether or not to keep the items together.
As chase says in 16 "I keep all of my Folio mailings, which are exclusive to the subscribers, so would it be a problem to sell an LE and then sell the announcement and prospectus afterwards?" I see it rather the same way. It's nice to have the prospectus with the actual LE, but the items were never sold as a set. It's just a nice bonus if they were kept as such.
To each his own. :)
I'm not sure I get your point. I'm simply saying that, like chase, I see the objects as two separate things. One is a piece of mail, the other is a book. They complement one another nicely, but were never packaged together as a whole item. It's the current owner's prerogative whether or not to keep the items together.
As chase says in 16 "I keep all of my Folio mailings, which are exclusive to the subscribers, so would it be a problem to sell an LE and then sell the announcement and prospectus afterwards?" I see it rather the same way. It's nice to have the prospectus with the actual LE, but the items were never sold as a set. It's just a nice bonus if they were kept as such.
To each his own. :)
19Django6924
>18 beatlemoon: "but were never packaged together as a whole item"
But that's exactly how he bought them! Perhaps they were shipped individually to the original subscriber, but if they were then put together as one item and that was how chase bought them, they should remain as one item. Raise the price when he resells them, yes, because the Letter adds value. But if he bought them as a package, he should sell them as a package.
To each his own indeed.
But that's exactly how he bought them! Perhaps they were shipped individually to the original subscriber, but if they were then put together as one item and that was how chase bought them, they should remain as one item. Raise the price when he resells them, yes, because the Letter adds value. But if he bought them as a package, he should sell them as a package.
To each his own indeed.
20beatlemoon
>19 Django6924:
You seem so scandalized! For the LEC, the Letters were mere marketing material. And the book was the product. If they thought the information should be part of the product, they would have packaged and sold both items together as a set from the start.
Therefore, who cares how chase bought them? Joe Booklover thought it was nifty to tuck his mail into his LEC books. chase thinks the mail and the book are worth more apart. His current property, his choice to make!
You seem so scandalized! For the LEC, the Letters were mere marketing material. And the book was the product. If they thought the information should be part of the product, they would have packaged and sold both items together as a set from the start.
Therefore, who cares how chase bought them? Joe Booklover thought it was nifty to tuck his mail into his LEC books. chase thinks the mail and the book are worth more apart. His current property, his choice to make!
21Django6924
>20 beatlemoon:
I never considered the letters "mere marketing material"--and I doubt the LEC Directors did either. They were part of the overall effort to educate the subscribers in the fine points of book design, and were a course in teaching the Art of the Book. The fact that the Club brought out a volume The First 50 Monthly Letters indicates the letters were in a very different class than Folio's promotional material.
I can't argue the point that after chase bought them, they were his to do with what he wanted. I once owned a signed Tiffany lamp base that I bought for $300 without a shade. The man who sold it to me said "if it had the leaded glass shade, it would be worth $3500"--this was many years ago. A few years after that, I saw in an antique shop in town a Tiffany shade that I am pretty sure originally went with the lamp. It was selling for $4000, which I couldn't afford, and I ended up selling the base to the dealer for $250. I'm sure you'll think I'm stupid for taking a loss, but to me, it was right that the lamp and shade should go together. I can't defend this feeling logically, so let's just say you say to-mah-to and I say to-may-to.
:-)
I never considered the letters "mere marketing material"--and I doubt the LEC Directors did either. They were part of the overall effort to educate the subscribers in the fine points of book design, and were a course in teaching the Art of the Book. The fact that the Club brought out a volume The First 50 Monthly Letters indicates the letters were in a very different class than Folio's promotional material.
I can't argue the point that after chase bought them, they were his to do with what he wanted. I once owned a signed Tiffany lamp base that I bought for $300 without a shade. The man who sold it to me said "if it had the leaded glass shade, it would be worth $3500"--this was many years ago. A few years after that, I saw in an antique shop in town a Tiffany shade that I am pretty sure originally went with the lamp. It was selling for $4000, which I couldn't afford, and I ended up selling the base to the dealer for $250. I'm sure you'll think I'm stupid for taking a loss, but to me, it was right that the lamp and shade should go together. I can't defend this feeling logically, so let's just say you say to-mah-to and I say to-may-to.
:-)
22chase.donaldson
I can definitely see what Robert is saying. As I expressed above, the cannabalizing of book components is very troubling to me, especially when they were of a limited edition like my Shahn Ecclesiastes volume. I think we are just disagreeing on what the status of the monthly letters are, but I sleep well knowing that the letter will end up in the binding or in the slipcase of its respective volume of someone who will truly cherish the book and the letter together, even if the letter and the book do not correspond. Perhaps that is a rationalization, but I will also say that if the monthly letter had the subscriber's name or was somehow unique, with a numeric notation or like I said, with the subscriber's name and address, I would not feel it right to do what I am doing. To me, it is important that I maximize profit (obviously) but also that the book and letter find their way back together.
23Django6924
>22 chase.donaldson: " it is important that I maximize profit"
I understand that; but I have just one question: when you sell one of the LECs, do you ever propose to the buyer that for an additional $10-$20 he can have the Monthly Letter that came inside the book when you bought it?
I understand that; but I have just one question: when you sell one of the LECs, do you ever propose to the buyer that for an additional $10-$20 he can have the Monthly Letter that came inside the book when you bought it?
24beatlemoon
>22 chase.donaldson:
"I sleep well knowing that the letter will end up in the binding or in the slipcase of its respective volume of someone who will truly cherish the book and the letter together, even if the letter and the book do not correspond."
This is not a rationalization to me; it is a practical, logical thought. And precisely why I see nothing wrong with splitting up a pair of items that were never bound together to begin with. You don't want the Letters; you wish to make them available to someone who needs/wants the Letter but already has the book. Seems fair enough.
"I sleep well knowing that the letter will end up in the binding or in the slipcase of its respective volume of someone who will truly cherish the book and the letter together, even if the letter and the book do not correspond."
This is not a rationalization to me; it is a practical, logical thought. And precisely why I see nothing wrong with splitting up a pair of items that were never bound together to begin with. You don't want the Letters; you wish to make them available to someone who needs/wants the Letter but already has the book. Seems fair enough.
25Django6924
>24 beatlemoon:
Sorry to be dense, but I still think you should offer them first to the buyer of the book in which they came.
Sorry to be dense, but I still think you should offer them first to the buyer of the book in which they came.
26beatlemoon
>25 Django6924:
Well that's just good manners. I would expect a good seller (as I'm sure chase is) to mention in the listing that Monthly Letters for certain volumes were available for an added cost and to contact me for details. Or provide a link in the auction to the corresponding auction. No one's saying that one purchaser can't buy both halves.
Well that's just good manners. I would expect a good seller (as I'm sure chase is) to mention in the listing that Monthly Letters for certain volumes were available for an added cost and to contact me for details. Or provide a link in the auction to the corresponding auction. No one's saying that one purchaser can't buy both halves.
27chase.donaldson
Django, I honestly didn't think of offering the letter to the individual that bought the book, though I think it is a good idea and I think I will start doing that. Unfortunately, by beatlemoon's standards, I guess this has made me a bad seller thus far.
28Django6924
>27 chase.donaldson:
She needs to remember the Scripture "judge not, lest ye be judged." That's the trouble with Jersey girls, whited sepulchres, one and all.
She needs to remember the Scripture "judge not, lest ye be judged." That's the trouble with Jersey girls, whited sepulchres, one and all.
29beatlemoon
>27 chase.donaldson:
Not at all.
This is business (as you said from the get-go). This is how I see it: you got something to sell, he's interested in buying. You have the upper hand, so it's up to you what the terms are. Everyone's got a price and it's your right to choose how you sell your inventory. You can be generous or you can drive a hard bargain. Or fall somewhere in the middle (which it sounds like you have been and most people are). But as long as you aren't flat-out swindling anyone, it's all fair. And the buyer has the right to go ahead and purchase or move on and find a seller more to his taste.
>28 Django6924:
Don't talk to me.
Not at all.
This is business (as you said from the get-go). This is how I see it: you got something to sell, he's interested in buying. You have the upper hand, so it's up to you what the terms are. Everyone's got a price and it's your right to choose how you sell your inventory. You can be generous or you can drive a hard bargain. Or fall somewhere in the middle (which it sounds like you have been and most people are). But as long as you aren't flat-out swindling anyone, it's all fair. And the buyer has the right to go ahead and purchase or move on and find a seller more to his taste.
>28 Django6924:
Don't talk to me.
30astropi
Wow, quite the debate going on here. At any rate, my answer to the original question (post #1) is maybe a few bucks, but to be honest, I really don't care. I just care about the condition of the book and slipcase, and will not go looking to find the newsletter. The exception would be if the book included some special supplemental material such as the LEC "Man and Superman" which came with a special pamphlet. I consider that part of the package, but again I personally just do not care for newsletters, although if a copy of a book I purchase comes with the newsletter I will naturally hold on to them. That said, if people like them for completion that is perfectly reasonable of course, fortunately the lack of a newsletter does not cause me to lose any sleep :)
31LECCOLLECT
As a long time LEC collector with an extensive collection of around 500 titles, I have been associated with many LEC bookellers. Almost all LEC sellers consider it good form to pass along the Monthly Letter with the book. Failure to do so would be considered in bad form if not dishonest. Not illegal, but lacking in principle to the trade.
32busywine
I love the newsletters, especially the context and the story behind the book creation. So, for me, I think it should just be part of the base price (and think it ethically questionable for someone to take it out and sell it separately), but all things being equal, i would probably pay $10-15 more for one with than without.
33kdweber
>31 LECCOLLECT: 500 LECs! Holy cow, they only made 543 plus 8 specials. I'm jealous ;-)
34encephalophagy
Resurrecting this topic to ask how much more would you pay for the loose lithograph laid-in to select editions (e.g. Jude the Obscure, Hundred Years of Solitude)? I couldn't see myself paying more than $20 for an otherwise identical edition without it but the reseller community seems to disagree...
35kdweber
>34 encephalophagy: I’d definitely look for a copy with the extra litho. Like you I’d be reticent to pay more than $20.
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