America's Obituarry??? WHAT?

My dad forwarded this to me yesterday, and I don't know quite what to make of it:

"In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of
Edinborough, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some
2,000 years prior:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until
the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts
from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for
the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with
the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal
policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of
history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations
always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."
The Obituary follows:

Born 1776, Died 2008
It doesn't hurt to read this several times.


Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul ,
Minnesota , points out some interesting facts concerning the last
Presidential election:

Number of States won by: Obama: 19 McCain: 29
Square miles of land won by: Obama: 580,000 McCain: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by: Obama: 127 million McCain: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Obama: 13.2
McCain: 2.1


Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory McCain won was
mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country.

Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low income
tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the
"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy,
with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached
the "governmental dependency" phase.



If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal
invaders called illegal's - and they vote - then we can say goodbye to the
USA in fewer than five years.

If you are in favor of this, then by all means, delete this message.

If you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how much
is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom."

Its alarmist, makes huge generalizations, and just seems generally ridiculous. If this is the way Republicans think, no wonder they're so insanely negative and hateful. Apparently, whats happening now isn't progress, but the downfall of a once great empire. I can't help but grown and suggest people who think this way grow up.

>Number of States won by: Obama: 19 McCain: 29

Just for reference Obama won 29 states plus they split Nebraska. Not disagreeing or agreeing with what you said but it does change the data a bit.

Yes, I just look up the statistics referenced in the article that your Dad forwarded. It is completely made up. I always suggest to people before 'forwarding' things to others, to do a quick search, usually takes less than 30 seconds, to see if these chain letter type forwards are worth sending. I find that nearly always they are hoaxes, fraudulent, or factually incorrect.

Unfortunately, many people feel they can go to anything, including lying, to make there view sound correct. Do I agree that America could improve in many ways yes... do I think that its partisan politics that is to blame, no. Look at home, to your own life, and own actions, and stop passing the blame for everything you do elsewhere. (you, meaning everyone, not you personally) :)

I personally feel that our country is now, not complacent, but suffering from an incredible entitlement issue. We somehow feel that our country and our government owes us, well, everything. We never expect hard times, we never expect anything, other than to be able to live consumerist lives and get what's coming to us as Americans. I think if the average American would travel to anyplace outside of Western Europe or Australia and actually spend time to look around at the world, they would understand how incredibly well off all of us are. I think what's wrong with our county is us, its people. If I hear one more person complain that the big banks or the government is at fault for the fact that they financially borrowed, spent beyond their means, and never saved a dime (as a matter of fact, charged everything), I will flip! Take responsibility for your own actions already. And why don't you do something for your country for a change? Like live lives inside your means and save for a rainy day? Read the contracts that you are signing, and make sure you understand it? Do something to help your community? Make purchases in a way that supports things that you care about, not by which supports the company that provides the cheapest product? Make efforts to reduce YOUR dependence on petroleum products instead of complaining about offshore drilling?

One of the great things about a Democracy is it reflects its people... its not a pretty image is it?

2> I'm not saying anything in the quotes. This was an e-mail my father forwarded to me. Actually, I disagree with just about everything in it. Just thought it might make for an interesting discussion.

3> Agreed 100%. I don't think I could have said it any better myself Jessie!

DeusExLibrus, a very similar concoction started circulating on the internet about the 2000 election, and then it morphed for 2004 & 2008. You might want to forward the following links to your father:

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/01/unreported-stats/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/athenian.asp

I went looking at snopes as well but couldn;t find anything. I was looking at the Obama pages though.

#3

Honestly, I think people need to quit traveling. They can look at the growing numbers of homeless people in our inner cities and the back yards of almost every small community and realize that the same thing as traveling to a third world country.

I'm not claiming to superiority or any such stance. I know I'm beyond my means, living paycheck to paycheck. Is it my fault? Sure. I screwed up my spending habits. I also know that right now, my primary effort is to lose my debt so I can start stashing things for that rainy day. (Though the creditors don't make it easy.)

I think we need to do a little more work at home, develop true communities again, not just groupings of homes and people who fight over minor insults. As Americans we need to join together as a people.

Will America collapse? Probably one day.
Can we delay the collapse? Sure. When we become one people and quit fracturing ourselves with the lables.

(Sorry about the soap box there. Its a subject I'm kinda passionate about.)

Thanks to krolik for the links to specific debunking of the "facts" presented. But even if the figures and attributions were not invented, the above does not constitute an argument but rather a framing of social groups; the rural, taxpaying real Americans (read white) vs the urban, violent, immigrant, welfare dependent other (read not white).

The idea that the indigent, lazy colored folks and their liberal coddlers are ruining the country for hardworking white folks has been a staple of conservative rhetoric since at least the 1980s (e.g. Reagan's "welfare queens"). That this mythos has little relation to actual government expenditures is, of course, irrelevant.

My memory is that increases in government debt over that time period are principally linked to periods of increased military spending and reduced taxes, with the largest reductions going to the wealthy. Recent deficits have been further inflated by a massive bailout of the financial sector. This is hardly a picture of the plebs using their democratic rights to drain the public coffers.

The country would have been better off if the bailout money for the banks and Wall St. thieves went as direct payments to the taxpayers.

The obscenely rich and the large corporations are a much greater risk to Americans than any group of religious zealots, except the former seem to be manipulating the latter with ease.

Sure, I see the "end of America as we knew and loved it" - it's going to be divvied up by certain congressmen to their corporate owners, for a piece of the action.

What I found interesting from the Snopes.com analysis was that when this "factoid" spam was first concocted, it was an apology for why Bush should have been declared President instead of Gore. The present incarnation is a direct attack on Obama and why he shouldn't have received the Presidency. Seems that this political perspective is very flexible (slippery?) and persistent in attacking liberal leadership.

I;m sorry but I'm a little lost. What does traveling have to do with homelessness?

I think they were making the point that you don't have to go somewhere else to get a reality check about poverty and homelessness, that its rampant here in the US. Most people just ignore it for some reason. Somehow its more impressive to pay five dollars a month to feed a starving child in Africa than do something to help the homeless dude you drive by every day on your way to work.

fascinating

I agree with DEL that the "poor" at home are ignored far, far too often. More of us need to direct some charity to those nearby, incresing a sense of community. When a "poor" person has a face, and a life, that you actually know it is much more difficult to blame them for all the national challenges we face.