Argumentative people
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1Akiyama
I've been hanging out on Internet forums for a few years now, and I've noticed that whenever I've got into long arguments with people, it's always been with the same type of person.
They are often quite intelligent.
They take it personally when people disagree with them, or when people express opinions they disagree with; often to the point of swearing and insulting the other poster.
When arguing, they tend to use "straw man" arguments, acting as if the other poster's position is more extreme than it actually is.
They never express agreement or even interest at anything the other poster says, and they never express self-doubt.
They are not interested in finding common ground with the other poster, they see discussion as a contest that they have to win.
They don't have a very well-developed sense of humour. Attempts to relieve the tension or derail the arguments by using humour or silliness won't work.
They must have the last word in every argument (and, in all the arguments I've had with them, they always have had).
* * *
I wouldn't call these people trolls, because to me a troll is someone who deliberately tries to wind people up, by being exaggeratedly provocative and argumentative. The kind of people I'm talking about don't set out to wind people up - they just do so naturally!
Thinking about it, I've come to the conclusion that these people's defining feature is "black and white thinking". They see ideas and people only as being either Right or Wrong, that's why they so often end up arguing against straw men and making personal attacks - anyone who disagrees with them must obviously be some kind of extreme right-winger/left-winger/religious nut/whatever!
I've come to think of these type of people as "skunks". Skunks are very black and white and it's foolish to stick around when they're angry!
I've never come across anyone like this on LibraryThing yet. I'm mainly thinking of another forum I hang out on, but I've observed the same sorts of posters all over the internet, and I'm learning to ignore them when they try to engage me in argument (it's taken me a while, though).
So, what do you think? Have I identified a particular personality type, or am I just rationalising my own argumentativeness by projecting it onto other people? :-)
They are often quite intelligent.
They take it personally when people disagree with them, or when people express opinions they disagree with; often to the point of swearing and insulting the other poster.
When arguing, they tend to use "straw man" arguments, acting as if the other poster's position is more extreme than it actually is.
They never express agreement or even interest at anything the other poster says, and they never express self-doubt.
They are not interested in finding common ground with the other poster, they see discussion as a contest that they have to win.
They don't have a very well-developed sense of humour. Attempts to relieve the tension or derail the arguments by using humour or silliness won't work.
They must have the last word in every argument (and, in all the arguments I've had with them, they always have had).
* * *
I wouldn't call these people trolls, because to me a troll is someone who deliberately tries to wind people up, by being exaggeratedly provocative and argumentative. The kind of people I'm talking about don't set out to wind people up - they just do so naturally!
Thinking about it, I've come to the conclusion that these people's defining feature is "black and white thinking". They see ideas and people only as being either Right or Wrong, that's why they so often end up arguing against straw men and making personal attacks - anyone who disagrees with them must obviously be some kind of extreme right-winger/left-winger/religious nut/whatever!
I've come to think of these type of people as "skunks". Skunks are very black and white and it's foolish to stick around when they're angry!
I've never come across anyone like this on LibraryThing yet. I'm mainly thinking of another forum I hang out on, but I've observed the same sorts of posters all over the internet, and I'm learning to ignore them when they try to engage me in argument (it's taken me a while, though).
So, what do you think? Have I identified a particular personality type, or am I just rationalising my own argumentativeness by projecting it onto other people? :-)
2clamairy
What a great term! :o) Skunks. I like it! And yes, I have known a few skunks in my day. I've known more trolls, though. I've even known a few people who might fit into both categories, as they waiver between polite (if heated ) debate, and verbal assault. :oS
I'm afraid the whole world is one big fuzzy gray patch to me, though there are little slivers of black and white on either edge, if I look very closely. ;o)
Edited for typos over one year later. That must be a record. ;o)
I'm afraid the whole world is one big fuzzy gray patch to me, though there are little slivers of black and white on either edge, if I look very closely. ;o)
Edited for typos over one year later. That must be a record. ;o)
3Busifer
Well, I personally know one of these people - he thinks the world is black & white and that everyone who doesn't agree is either unbelievably stupid or had been had (at least I think this is how it's said - "mislead").
He is proud to tell he sees no grayscales or ambiguities - it's one way or the other, everything else is people not "brave" enough to take a stand, weaklings who have a problem making up their minds.
He lingers at an online forum for likeminded, though, so he won't disturb anyone here at LT ;-)
(In reality he is a real nice tolerant person, but sometimes he gets frustrated with humanity and he takes it out in this way...)
As to your questions, my answer is "I don't know" ;-)
He is proud to tell he sees no grayscales or ambiguities - it's one way or the other, everything else is people not "brave" enough to take a stand, weaklings who have a problem making up their minds.
He lingers at an online forum for likeminded, though, so he won't disturb anyone here at LT ;-)
(In reality he is a real nice tolerant person, but sometimes he gets frustrated with humanity and he takes it out in this way...)
As to your questions, my answer is "I don't know" ;-)
4kageeh
Message 3: Busifer -- Sounds like Bush but he's not smart enough to be in any forums. least of all LT.
5Busifer
Kageeh - the person described is my husband ;-)
He's real nice, or else I wouldn't still be with him, but he have been working in security too long - I think "jaded" is an appropriate term - and when he's tired he sees evil and ill will everywhere he goes...
And he would be horrified if he knew anyone thought he was anything like Bush (who he currently views as one of the most evil things present on earth), hehe.
Edited to add: he had one of his "black'n'white-fits" when I wrote the original message. In between he's a normal tolerant and caring person :-)
He's real nice, or else I wouldn't still be with him, but he have been working in security too long - I think "jaded" is an appropriate term - and when he's tired he sees evil and ill will everywhere he goes...
And he would be horrified if he knew anyone thought he was anything like Bush (who he currently views as one of the most evil things present on earth), hehe.
Edited to add: he had one of his "black'n'white-fits" when I wrote the original message. In between he's a normal tolerant and caring person :-)
6kageeh
Message 5: Busifer -- ooh, sorry I accused your husband of that! My bad. I keep asking how Laura sleeps with him (The Evil One, not your husband) because she at least has a brain. Oh, wait -- that should be past tense. Now I think her mood-altering medications are a wee bit too strong.
7lefty33
#3 Busifer, you're right on the "being had" thing meaning misleading. I am always amazed at how well you use English -- even slang! You're great!
Akiyama, I like the skunk idea too. It's cute. I'm afraid that someday LT will be infiltrated. But so far so good, even in religious discussions, amazingly.
I will say that I can be almost skunk-ish sometimes. Lots of things are black and white to me. There are some things I believe in with no doubts, but yelling at people won't make them agree with me. Besides, I'm too introverted to yell at anyone. And it is, after all, okay for people to think different things. :)
Akiyama, I like the skunk idea too. It's cute. I'm afraid that someday LT will be infiltrated. But so far so good, even in religious discussions, amazingly.
I will say that I can be almost skunk-ish sometimes. Lots of things are black and white to me. There are some things I believe in with no doubts, but yelling at people won't make them agree with me. Besides, I'm too introverted to yell at anyone. And it is, after all, okay for people to think different things. :)
