SqueakyChu Goes for 75 - Page 5

The Race of the Butterflies will continue in this thread. My previous thread can be found here.







I'm posting four more months to complete the year of 2011: September, October, November, and (chilly) December. *thinks of snow and shivers*

Are you wondering what TIOLI is? Private message me, and I'll tell you. :)

Thanks for stopping by!

September 2011


Apples and Honey for Rosh Hashana - Photo by SqueakyChu

My September bookish plans: To attend the National Book Festival and/or the Baltimore Book Festival at the end of the month. PLUS...enjoy a Meet-Up with members of LibraryThing and Bookcrossing. More here and here.

55. Save Them All - Linda Bergman-Althouse - TIOLI: Read a book never read for any other TIOLI challenge
56. A Clockwork Orange - Anthony Burgess
57. The Lace Reader - Brunonia Barry - TIOLI: Read a book whose author has an alliterative name

October 2011


Gaver Farm in Maryland - Photo by SqueakyChu

My October bookish plans:
1. Register more books at BookCrossing.
2. Transfer many, many books (not registered at Bookcrossing) to The Book Thing of Baltimore.

On my bookshelf for this month...
58. The Cantor's Daughter - Scott Nadelson - TIOLI: Read a book that has been mentioned in 150 conversations or less on the book's main page
59. Fat land - Greg Critser - TIOLI: Read a book that has been mentioned in 150 conversations or less on the book's main page
60. The Particular Sadness of Lemon Cake - Aimee Bender - SqueakyChu - TIOLI: Read a book that is characteristic of the 75 Books Challenge Group
61. In the Casa Azul - Meaghan Delahunt - TIOLI: Read a book by or about an artist - Reading
62. The Grotesque - Patrick McGrath - TIOLI: Read a book with a spooky cover - Reading
63. Song yet sung - James MacBride - Reading
64. The Laws of the Evening - Mary Yukari Waters - TIOLI: Read a book that has been mentioned in 150 conversations or less on the book's main page - Reading
65. Emma - Jane Austen - TIOLI: Read a novel assigned in an English class - Reading
66.

*trying hard to get to 75 before the end of the year*

November 2011

More to come..

December 2011

More to come..

First?? :)

Your last book sounds interesting but gory doesn't sit well with me and then afterwards I feel like I need a few days to let it out of my system!

Awww... :( I was first, but I went away because it was obvious you hadn't finished reserving spots.

Never mind. Second!! :)

> 6

The funny thing is that In the Miso Soup didn't even need the gore. What was most interesting in that book was the relationship between the two main characters. One of them was so weird that I kept thinking he would turn out to be a robot or something like that!

My next book should be fun. It's Save Them All by Linda Bergman-Althouse. The author is a wildlife rehabilitator who gave us a tour of her facility in Cape Carteret, North Carolina two weeks ago. I found out that she was an author so I decided to get her book. I don't even know what it's about other than it will incorporate wildlife rehab into the story. More about this book later...

> 7

First or second, you're always welcome!

Huzzah! We can post! Just leaving some breadcrumbs.

> 9

:)

Now I know where to find you again. Hi Madeline!

Hi, Ilana. I didn't know I was lost! :)

Hi, Madeline. Just leaving my clean little marker...

Hi, Gail! Thanks for stopping by.

As a follow-up to my reading on wildlife, I've set out two bird feeders. One is a suet cage. The other is a handcrafted hummingbird feeder. (picture of this feeder) The hummingbird feeder is very cleverly made, using a set of three large test tubes encased in coiled copper wire. The latter attracted hummingbirds during Hurricane Irene, but I haven't seen any since.

The suet cage attracts mostly woodpeckers. I so love them! I'm naming the male (a red-capped) Downy Woodpecker "Pecorino" (an Italian cheese) and the black and white female Downy Woodpecker "Pecorina" (the female version of Pecorino?). :)

If you have any books to suggest about nature, wildlife, gardening, or birds, speak up. I'm all ears!

The book I'm reading now, Save Them All, is a novel which was written by the wildlife rehabilitator, Linda Bergman-Althouse, whose facility I visited two weeks ago while vacationing in North Carolina. She's an amazing person. Her novel is okay, but her real essence comes out more in person.

I have never heard of a suet cage before. Off to Google what they look like. . .

The one I have looks just like this.

I buy the cakes for a dollar or two and place them in the cage. It takes the birds a while to eat them up. They mostly encourage woodpeckers because woodpeckers naturally cling to the side of a tree trunk when they eat.

I do not think I have seen a woodpecker in this area. We get a lot of cardinals though. I wonder if they would like something like that.

What is amazing about those feeders (both the suet cage and the hummingbird feeders) is that they attract birds that you never knew you had into your yard. Try it, and let me know what happens.

I will have to see if I can find a location in the yard that the dogs do not visit. I do not want them scaring off the birds.

We had a hummingbird feeder for a while, but found that they loved our crocosmia and Rose of Sharons even better. I'll try to find the picture from earlier in the summer...

Enjoy them however they find your yard!

I too am.still shooting for 75, but I have 30 more to read..

> 20

My younger son has a dog (well, it's actually his fiancee's)... and a birdbath ...and a hummingbird feeder... and a regular bird feeder. When we're all inside the house (including the dog), it's quite fun to watch all the birds at the feeder. I think the birds are really much safer from dogs than they are from cats.

> 21

found that they loved our crocosmia and Rose of Sharons even better

That's pretty cool, Liz, as I finally decided to let a corner of my yard grow semi-wild. There I have some Rose of Sharon growing wild. I hope that will bring more hummingbirds. They are so much fun to watch.

What are crocosmia? I've never heard of that plant.

http://www.librarything.com/pic/257737. Okay - couldn't quite figure out how to get a picture in here. But, if you go to this link, you should see it!

One of my favorite flowers-and my husband amazingly got this picture.

We haven't seen a hummingbird in a while, but we see them regularly throughout July!

Books about birds: Donna strongly suggested Wesley the owl : the remarkable love story of an owl and his girl by Stacey O'Brien. I just realized as I was looking for it that I did not put it on my LT wish list and will go rectify that.

I wish I lived somewhere that attracted birds. But then again, there are lots of trees out back and maybe I'd be surprised if I put a bird feeder out there. Something to try eventually.

> 24

Wow! That's a fabulous picture. How on earth did your husband catch that quick little bird? It's so cute!!

I still have a few hummingbirds. I saw two today, and I can see that the level of nectar in one of the test tubes is going down. I was told that they'd be in my area (Maryland, USA) through the end of September. I don't know when they return in the spring, though. Guess I'll have to do some research. :)

> 25

I just added Wesley the Owl to my wishlist.

I wish I lived somewhere that attracted birds.

I thought it was the fact that I fed cats that hardly any birds showed up in my yard. Now I'm putting flowers and feeders up to attract birds. I'm also pulling out invasive species of plants that prevent native species that feed birds and other wildlife from growing and thriving.

That was the whole point of my having become a certified wildlife habitat. It's just that people's property have become so devoid of food, shelter, and breeding grounds for wildlife that the National Wildlife Federation is instructing individuals how to *attract* wildlife to where they live. You don't even need to have a yard. A porch or a patio will do. You can read more here.

Not only is doing this good for wildlife, it's great exercise for me (you should have seen me out there digging yesterday!), it's education, and it's fun. Come join me in doing this!

55. Save Them All - Linda Bergman-Althouse



I bought this book because I just met the author who works as a wildlife rehabilitator in North Carolina. After a tour of the facility in which she works, I was thoroughly impressed by her and her work. I learned that she was an author so I ordered her book. The book is okay. It's the story of a young woman who comes to North Carolina after losing her parents in a Midwest plane crash. She devotes all of her time to her work as a wildlife rehabilitator and is not really interested in making new friends or meeting men.

On the cover of the book is a line that says "inspired by true events". I really want to know which of this book's events were true and which were not. There were two incidents which were particularly heartbreaking.

For some reason, I kept on seeing the protagonist of the novel, Colbi West, as being the author herself. I could not get her out of my mind. Colbi had a very sharp tongue in the book, and I imagine that the author could be that way in real life.

The book would benefit from better editing with regard to spelling and grammar. That aside, I found the story interesting enough to read through to the end although this is not the type of book I generally read.

Would I recommend this book? Well, I think it would be good to meet the author first, and then read the book. That might be difficult to arrange for everyone, however...

Rating - 3 stars

Uh oh, I'm liking the sound of some of these books.
I'm getting outa here quick before I do something silly on the Book Depository website!

If you enjoy books about wildlife rehabilitation, I really enjoyed Mary Alice Monroe's book Skyward earlier this year. It's set in the other Carolina, and birds of prey are the type of wildlife being rehabilitated.

> 30

Wishlisted!

Thanks for the recommendation, Lori.

> 29

:)

#27 Madeline, I'd like nothing better than to join you in this endeavour, but because I live right next to downtown Montreal and in a decidedly urban setting, with neighbours packed in all around in a triplex with just a small balcony front and back... I'm not quite sure how I could do this (even though we have lots of trees and a back alley that is quite green (though sadly neglected and not very well respected), and not sure either if I did manage something whether my neighbours would greet more wildlife in this area with open arms exactly... though I love nothing better than to find a mama racoon nearby moving her babes around, which happens maybe once a year and is an exciting event for me—they make such funny and strange sounds!

> 32

It's easy. Start with a bird feeder. Any kind. You might be surprised at the kind of birds that will appear. In winter, when food in scarce, for sure you'll attract birds.

Personally, I'd rather not have a racoon *too* close to my house. Prior to my older son's buying his own house, a raccoon family took up residence there (Rent free. Imagine!) and did a lot of damage to the structure of the house. A raccoon outside would be, okay though. :) We do have an oppossum that lives nearby which we sometimes see stealing food from the cat dish late at night.

I can recommend Enslaved by Ducks; although it's not the best book I've ever read, it's an entertaining exploration of one couple's efforts to save/nurture animals.

We had the strangest, most pleasant experience last week: our neighbors have a hummingbird feeder, and we occasionally see the small wonders in our yard. DH and I were on the porch, grilling, sitting quietly. He had on a bright red ball cap. A hummingbird approached, hovered for about two seconds, decided that perhaps he wasn't a source of nectar after all, and sped off. Absolutely charming and sort of unbelievable, but true.

I also highly recommend all of Gerald Durrell's books. They don't apply precisely to our situations, but are still a terrific source of inspiration and fun.

I'm wondering where our redheaded woodpeckers have disappeared to. Haven't seen a one this year.

Oh, and wait until winter, maybe you'll get my favorites at the suet feeder: chickadees. Adorable, if a tiny bit noisy.

I love backyard bird watching. We don't have feeders but we have six trees in our little yard, and the birds (and squirrels) love it. We've only had one woodpecker this year, but he was beautiful. If I remember correctly, I think he was actually one of the breeds that "pecks" the ground for bugs too.

I have Enslaved by Ducks, Gail! Patrick (pbadeer) sent it to me after he finished it. He wasn't all that crazy about it, but it sure sounded like a fun read to me.

A hummingbird approached, hovered for about two seconds, decided that perhaps he wasn't a source of nectar after all, and sped off

That is hilarious.

Oh, yeah! Back in the 70's I read so many of Gerald Durrell's books. Now is a good time for some rereads. What a great idea!

We do get chickadees. I remember them from previous years.

I've never seen a red-headed woodpecker.

Have you ever used the website Geobirds? It was introduced to me by a fellow LT-er (gilroy). It's not a perfect website, but it's kind of fun. I'm SqueakyChu there as well.

> 35

Faith, if you hang a suet feeder, you'll attract many more woodpeckers.

I decided to name the woodpeckers "Pecorino" (for any one that is a male) and "Pecorina" (for any one that is a female). The blue jay that sometimes steals cat food I call "Jay Leno". :)

I'll definitely get a bird feeder. I'll be curious to see who shows up. :-)

>26 SqueakyChu: He's out in the yard frequently and I guess that the hummingbird was pretty happy in the flowers! I'll be sure to keep my eyes out and see if we have any more this fall - we still have blooming Rose of Sharon in the backyard.

All this chatter about bird and animal books is giving me an idea for a new category of books to read...

>26 SqueakyChu: He's out in the yard frequently and I guess that the hummingbird was pretty happy in the flowers! I'll be sure to keep my eyes out and see if we have any more this fall - we still have blooming Rose of Sharon in the backyard.

All this chatter about bird and animal books is giving me an idea for a new category of books to read...

I think you'll be amazed, Madeline, and any other new-to-bird-feeding people here, at how quickly the birds become comfortable and quite tame. I often have them zooming at me when I fill up our feeders, screaming at me to "hurry up, for heaven's sake!" Also, we have swallows who are desperate every spring to get in the house. We've avoided that so far, but our porches can really be a mess.

I'm off to check the bird site now.

Madeline - Looks like we're going to hit Baltimore on Friday afternoon and DC on Saturday. The author schedule looks really good both days, but Saturday's easier for us.

> 42

Saturday in DC is perfect for me! I'm not sure about Baltimore, though. Are you going to set a time and place for LTers to meet at either festival?

Let me know as soon as you decide because I don't want to set a Bookcrossing meet-up to conflict with any LT meet-up that you are planning.

I wasn't planning on setting a specific time for a meet up. Nora mentioned on the meet up thread that she might take it on. I'd say plan the BC meet up and we'll work around it.

Will do.

This past Sunday and Monday, I scored big by helping out at Tikvat Israel's future book sale. I came away with hundreds of used books through which to browse and possibly use for Bookcrossing. Most of them will probably go to The Book Thing of Baltimore, though. Many will go to my local library book sale shelf. Some will go the the Friends of the Library used book store.

The ones I'm keeping are mainly children's books which go quickly at our BookCrossing booth at book fairs. Of course, all of the Judaica and the best non-Judaica will be sold at the main event: the Tikvat Israel Used Jewish Book Sale to take place on January 15, 2012, in Rockville, Maryland. I worked that book sale last year, and it was a super fund-raiser for a special project in which my rabbi was involved. More about last year's sale here.

My rabbi, Howard Gorin, said that "we're the people of the book, not the Nook". :)

I love this article.

This is an FYI so none of my fellow 75ers who are able to attend the National Book Festival in Washington, DC this year (September 24-25, 2011) miss the LibraryThing meet-ups we have planned. Nora (Norabelle) will be setting these up and hosting them. I'll be setting up the Bookcrossing Meet-up. You can follow all the action on this thread.

Hehe! A Clockwork Orange was just disallowed from this month's "five senses challenge". No biggy, though. I'll probably not finish that book this month anyway. I'm heavy into the RED/YELLOW/BLUE TIOLI challenge presently...

I just finished A Clockwork Orange and loved it! Now I want to see the movie.

Well, so far this month, I've finished ONE TIOLI book. Oh, well. Others are reading TIOLI books for me.

I just figured out what the next challenge will be...and it's something so totally unlike me. It will be revealed at the end of this month.

56. A Clockwork Orange - Anthony Burgess



By the time Cheli kicked me out of the TIOLI challenge I had planned for this book, I was too into it to give up reading it. :)

I loved this classic, despite its gruesome violence, and have posted my review here.

Rating - 5 stars

I can't seem to get into The Silent Cry by Kenzaburo Oe for the Prime Color TIOLI challenge so I think I'll release this book and move on to something else.

The National Book Festival was so much fun this year! I posted pictures on this thread (beginning with post #115).

l'Shana Tova, Madeline! Here's a wish that the new year is sweet and healthy for all of us.

Have a great New Year, Judy!

Judy and Madeline!

Happy Day to you!

Enjoyed your review, I've always meant to read Clockwork Orange and other works by Anthony Burgess.

Shana Tova from me as well.

Thanks, Linda and Kerry!

57. The Lace Reader - Brunonia Barry



My husband was quite wrong on this one. He said I'd really like this book which I did not. I'm now in the tedious position of having willed myself to read Emma by Jane Austen for nothing other than my very own TIOLI challenge (so I only have myself to blame), but I really, really do need a more entertaining book to read ASAP!

Rating - 2 stars

Maybe you should switch to a graphic novel version of Emma. I don't mind Emma but then I like everything by Jane Austen. I'll steer clear of The Lace Reader.

I'm going to work my way through Emma because I told our niece I wanted to read what she was reading at Princeton University for her freshman English course this semester. Her major is English. Then it turned out her course was 19th Century Fiction - far from my favorite literature! In other words, "Yuck!"

I'll read one book from this course. I picked Emma because it was her first assigned book, and I've never read a book by Jane Austen - ever. I will make my way through it, but the question is when? :)

Madeleine, I'm sorry I couldn't make it to the book festival this year. It looks like you had fun even though it was a small LT group.

Emma is probably my favorite Austen character. I think the book is actually pretty funny; Austen really captures the silliness and immaturity of girls that age. The Eltons are also thoroughly ridiculous.

Emma is absolutely my favorite Austen book, but I dunno if it's a good starting place for someone who thinks they might not like Austen.

Can you just rent the movie Clueless and tell your niece you read Emma? ;-)

> 62

Can you just rent the movie Clueless

LOL!! No, Nora. I'm reading it more for me than I am for her. After forcing myself to read The Lace Reader, which my husband was convinced I'd love, I'm now happy to get back to Emma. I like that the chapters are very short. That makes it easy to read in small spurts. I'm also trying to finish two other books of short stories. I can't wait to get back to reading just one book through which I can sail.

Madeline, I'm astonished that you never read Austen!
Emma is Austen's funniest, I think, except perhaps Northanger Abbey, because that's such a sendup of melodrama. The big prize, of course, is Pride and Prejudice. I hope you like Emma enough to continue on through Austen.

I picked Emma because it was her first assigned book, and I've never read a book by Jane Austen - ever. I will make my way through it, but the question is when?

Emma was my first Austen. It took me four years to read. I "got" that it was supposed to be social commentary, but I still didn't like it. Since then I've read all of Austen's other novels and have loved each one of them. So I think I should go back and reread Emma, and I'll bet you I like it a lot better the second time around. I find there are two tricks to reading Austen. One is to slow waaaay down and actually read every word and think about every sentence. And if something can be taken as funny, then it is. I hope you have a better time with it than I did--but I'm sure I was just being too serious with it and not looking at it as "fun".

> 65

It took me four years to read.

Oh, no! Joyce, don't tell me that! I'm trying to read 75 books this year, and I'm not sure if I'm going to make it or not.

Now you say I have to read it twice?! Then it will take me eight years to read!! I'll be in my seventies by then and have hardly any time left in my life to read other books I want to read!! :O

I'm actually enjoying reading one chapter at a time. I only hope that I don't give up before I'm finished. That's usually what happens when I read other books this way.

I do like your hints for how to read Austen, though. I'm sorry I'm not one of those people who likes to do group reads. I would bet this is an excellent book to read that way.

> 64

I hope you like Emma enough to continue on through Austen.

I very seriously doubt that I'll continue with more Austen books, Judy. This book seems pretty long and stuffy. Not much happens. I can't see the humor yet. I'm at the part where Emma tries to encourage a relationship between Harriet and Mr. Elton. I am pushing forward, though, with everyone's encouragement.

Why are all the men referred to by their last names? That makes them so difficult to remember. I already started a character list. I keep forgetting who they are from page to page. :(

I don't know how I made it through college (my last English course was as a freshman) without ever having been assigned an Austen book to read, either. I now wonder about my English teachers along the way. :)

What were those movies, where some sort of virus was let out that caused a rage? I was creeped out for days. I actually had a hard time sleeping for 2 days. And there was a show on the other night about the Aftermath of a global catastrophe.. the lights go out, the water system stops working, grocery stores are cleaned out.. dead people in their yards, etc... Its making me twitch as I type this even.

Now you say I have to read it twice?!

No! I'm saying I have to read it twice 'cause I didn't do it right the first time. All I was trying to say was I didn't have a great experience with it, but had I read it more slowly, and had I considered it in a humorous way, I would have had a better time. Didn't mean to scare you!

> 69

Joyce, I was just kidding. I think I'll do okay with it. If, at any time, I become unhappy with the fact that I've chosen to read it, I'll just "leave it".

>64 ffortsa: Oh, dear. Emma had me laughing out loud at her naivite.

That said, some people just don't like 19th century writing conventions, etc. I liked all but one Austen. (Please don't try Mansfield Park! Yuck. P&P, by all means.) And Moby Dick, and some Dickens, etc. I was an English major, although most of those books I read on my own.

My sister, whom I have always considered well-read in several languages, hates the 19th century and says she spent her entire school career avoiding it. There are genres I just stay away from myself - dystopia, for instance. The 19th century style tends to be wordy, but once I get in the rhythm of it, I find it fine. I'm hoping Middlemarch will be satisfactory, since it's coming up as a reading group choice in a month or so.

There are genres I just stay away from myself - dystopia, for instance.

...and I just love this genre! As you can see, I just read A Clockwork Orange, sailed through it, and enjoyed reading it very much. I saw lots of humor in that book, one which others would call only violent. It's interesting the way both of us view such different genres.

Honestly, I'm not far enough into Emma to make any judgement calls yet. Today I was trying to read some short stories, but was falling asleep. Maybe too much chocolate chip honey cake that I ate earlier?

Why are all the men referred to by their last names? That makes them so difficult to remember.

Because that was the usage of the time. First names were rarely used outside the immediate family, even to the extent that married couples would call each other "Mr" and "Mrs", as the Bennetts do in P&P. Otherwise, first names only came into it to "place" people socially, to separate younger sons and daughters from their siblings. So the two Knightleys, George and John, are called Mr Knightley and Mr John Knightley when they are together. And in P&P, the two oldest girls are Miss Bennett (Jane) and Miss Elizabeth Bennett.

I'm the wrong person to be advising you, Madeline, because 19th century literature is probably my favourite form of all and so of course I'm always in danger of going overboard about it and turning you off it even more. :)

BUT--- Your key remark, I think, it this: Not much happens. No, not much happens in the usual literary sense, because Austen's novels are an absolutely accurate sketch of the suffocatingly narrow lives that women lived at the time, when they had no autonomy of action at all. Her novels have her heroines trying to stay true to their own values in a profoundly materialistic world, and the action, such as it is, is almost invariably internal.

All that said, Emma is quite distinct from Austen's other books because Emma herself is independently wealthy. So there's a different point, a different emphasis; it's more overtly a bildungsroman, though there's something of that in all the novels. But there's also the contrast of Emma's life with that of Jane Fairfax and the Bateses, who live hand to mouth and are in constant danger of failure and even starvation. That was the reality for many women of the time, including Austen herself, until her books sold.

Anyway--- I'll stop. :)

> 73

I'm the wrong person to be advising you, Madeline, because 19th century literature is probably my favourite form of all and so of course I'm always in danger of going overboard about it and turning you off it even more. :)

Wrong! You're the right person to be advising me because I've done all I can to avoid 19th century literature in the past. If you love it so much, that appreciation will come across in what you teach me. I'm very happy to learn whatever it is you want to tell me.

That makes sense about the last names.

I'm curious to see how Emma can go on for almost 400 pages if "nothing" happens. That might be me exaggerating! Obviously something does happen to make Jane Austen works classics. I want to discover what that is.

The most recent classic book I read was Bram Stoker's Dracula. Come to think of it, I must have read it for a TIOLI challenge because it's not likely that I picked up that book out of the blue. I think I'd read The Historian and then someone mentioned that I *had* to read Stoker's version. My first reaction was, "Oh, no!". It turned out, however, that I just loved it.

I'll keep this thread up-to-date as to where I am in Emma. I'll be reading other things at the same time, though. Feel free to teach me about Emma and/or Jane Austen. I'd still like to learn what I can.

...and, thanks, Liz!

Thank you. I'm perfectly happy to talk with you about this stuff any time, although I do always hesitate to butt in because I do always overdo it. :)

I would say this to you, though: I suspect that your love of dystopian literature and my love of 19th century literature are very similar, at heart. Both genres deal with complicated worlds with rules that the protagonist has to negotiate in order to prosper, or even to survive. The difference is that in dystopian works the rules are eventually made clear, whereas in 19th century works you have to figure it out for yourself. I find that modern readers are often confused and frustrated by classic novels because of that. Your name question is a perfect example of something that 19th century readers would have taken for granted, but which is rather mysterious these days.

The other thing is that a lot of people, now and then, do and did dislike Austen's realism. Charlotte Bronte hated her novels, for example: she wanted passion, not people counting pennies and fretting over the butcher's bills. There's often a split even in readers who do like 19th century novels, between those who like the day-to-day reality of Austen and, say, Anthony Trollope, and those who prefer the more sensational approach of Dickens or the Brontes or Wilkie Collins.

Or Bram Stoker. :)

Reading Austen a chapter a day is a perfect pace to read her!

> 75

Liz, that's an interesting analogy of dystopian novels and 19th century novels. Wouldn't it be funny if, through your help, I develop a passion for the latter? :)

Realism doesn't bother me. I rather like it. I'd prefer people counting pennies and fretting over butcher's bills any day over passion. Frankly, I find romance novels boring. I remember liking Dickens from my high school days. My favorite novel of his was Oliver Twist. They're too long, though! I've not read Trollope, or Collins and have only read one Bronte (Jane Eyre), but that was so long ago that a re-read probably would not hurt.

> 76

Reading Austen a chapter a day is a perfect pace to read her!

Great! That's my plan.

*runs off to get today's chapter in before midnight* :)

>#78 I'd be thrilled if you did, but I'm not holding my breath - I've fought and lost this battle before. :)

I prefer realism, too. One of the reasons I enjoy Trollope so much is that this is how people really lived quality in his novels.

> 79

Hehe! Before you push Trollope too much, let me make my way through this Austen novel. :)

Re: Emma:
SPOILER:
I'm up to the part where Mr. Knightly is not too happy that Emma is trying to keep Mr. Martin from marrying Harriet.

Tomorrow: Chapter 9!

Enjoying this conversation about 19th century literature (and distopian fiction - I enjoy both). Will be interested to see what your eventual verdict on Emma is, Madeline. I didn't like it when I first read it, because Emma herself really annoyed me with her spoilt ways, but I did read it again when I'd grown up enough myself to appreciate how her character develops and recognise that I didn't have to like her particularly.

Okay, fine! I've ordered Emma from the library.

*mutters*

> 81

Genny, I think I'll find Emma so so. I think it will be readable, but just not my favorite literature. At this starting point, I give it 3 stars
(just over midway between "like" and "not like" - like 6 out of 10).

> 82

Morphy, please come back and tell us when you get Emma. Let's comment on that we read together, but not on what we read ahead of each other (i.e. no spoilers).

> 79

Liz, please keep teaching us. Now, with Morphy, you have two students! Just don't charge me tuition as I'm almost a senior citizen. ;)

Progress in Emma - Reading Chapter 9 now...

> 79

I am a bit overwhelmed with the multiplicity of characters in Emma. Are so many characters a hallmark of 19th century literature? I do recall quite a few characters in Dracula - although I'm not certain I took the time to write them down - as I'm doing now with Emma.

Do other readers make a character list for books like these? Or is it only me, due to my poor memory, who needs to do this? :)

I'm wondering if it's precisely because the surnames are used that I'm having a hard time. Perhaps use of surnames makes me feel "less familiar" with the characters in the story? Do you think there should be any truth to this?

I'm wondering if it's precisely because the surnames are used that I'm having a hard time. Perhaps use of surnames makes me feel "less familiar" with the characters in the story?

Yes, I think it does. I found that with my second Austen, Mansfield Park. I knew there were a bunch of young adults, but I couldn't keep them straight, and then I read a scene that I thought was a conversation between some much older people (Miss Someone and Mr Somebody), and then those two "old" people got up and jumped over a fence (and turned out to be the young adults I was confused about) . That's when the whole thing with the surnames became suddenly clear to me. I also realized there weren't actually as many characters as I thought there were. Compared to Middlemarch or anything by Dickens, I don't think Austen actually packs that many characters into her novels.

Anyway, once I realized this, it did get a lot easier to understand (and I ended up loving Mansfield Park).

If I'm feeling energetic, I'll make a character list, but usually I'm too lazy.

Unfortunately, the need for a character list tends not to register until confusion has occurred, at which point I'm rarely inclined to return to the beginning and skim through.

> 86

LOL!!

I start right away. Like with more than four characters... ;)

...or maybe with more than three if they only go by their last names. :D

58. The Cantor's Daughter - Scott Nadelson



I so much love to find a book of short stories in which all of the stories are engaging and well written. Those in this collection were about Jewish folks, although the stories themselves were not about Judaism per se. Those of us who are Jewish will find something vaguely familiar about the characters - even in their generic settings.

The uncertainty of human relationships is the theme that binds the stories. In "The Cantor's Daughter", a girl rebels against her father's parenting. "Half a Day in Halifax" examines the relationship of the attraction of a young couple who meet on a cruise. "Rehearsal" brings to the forefront a family's preconceived ideas about a wayward member.

However, the most powerful story was the longest and last one. Named "The Headhunter", it told of Len, a down-and-out young man, and how his career as headhunter began to bloom when he found a better job for a chemist named Howard Rifkin. A headhunter is usually not friend to his clients. Whether Len and Rifkin were truly friends was uncertain, but everything that bound their so-called friendship was tested in this remarkable story.

Every story of this book was good, but the last one simply blew me away. What an exceptional way to end an excellent book!

Rating - 4.5 stars

Duly noted and added to my tbr list.

You'd really like this book, Kerry!

Liz, please keep teaching us. Now, with Morphy, you have two students! Just don't charge me tuition as I'm almost a senior citizen. ;)

Charge you?? I should pay you! :)

While I'll refrain from commenting on the text so that I don't accidentally let spoilers slip when I'm "teaching" you (i.e. forcing my opinions on you), I'm happy to try and help with any details you find puzzling.

That's a fair point about the names. We've now drifted so far from the formality that was required even amongst family and close friends in the 19th century that it can be hard for us to get a grip on the usage.

> 91

Emma - Chapter 10

So, if there are two Knightly brothers, Liz, why do they only use the first name for the one (Isabella's husband)? Why doesn't the text have the first name for both brothers? That's confusing!

Regarding formality...

When I was young, it was very impolite for a child to call an adult by a first name. Now I *hate* when young people don't call me by my first name. It makes me seem so old!

What's odd is that this take place in work settings as well. I work for a home health agency. While both my first name and surname are on my ID tag, what is written in BIG, BOLD letters is only my first name.

> 85

I also realized there weren't actually as many characters as I thought there were.

:)

So, if there are two Knightly brothers, Liz, why do they only use the first name for the one (Isabella's husband)?

Because he's the younger brother.

Beyond just habits of usage, there is something more significant here - being "Mr" instead of "Mr John" tells the world that you're the oldest son and therefore the holder of the bulk of the family property. Thus "Mr Knightley" is the owner of the country estate and a gentleman of leisure, while "Mr John" is a lawyer who has to work for a living.

So the first name is used to denote lesser status among the brothers?

Yes - and particularly in the 19th century when primogeniture was everything. Younger sons (and all daughters) were very often left nearly penniless, while the family property was invested in the eldest son, whether by an entail or by bequest. This is why "younger sons" are often looked at askance in these novels: there were very few professions that were acceptable for gentlemen, so a lot of younger sons had to marry money to get by. And a girl without a decent dowry was unlikely to marry at all.

Many of those younger sons became farming-gentry here in New Zealand, it was quite common for them to try their hand at making a fortune in the colonies.

Oh, yes, "the colonies" were another option - particularly for younger sons who got into any kind of trouble.

I'm a "colonial", too, BTW - over the ditch! :)

> 97, 98

So was it "okay" to be a farmer in the colonies and not at home in England, or were farmers looked down upon in both places? If a farmer became "successful" in the colonies, then was he able to be upwardly mobile? Could he then move back to England and be recognized as being of a higher class?

This is a socialist at heart you're typing to! I've never been able to enjoy reading anything about extremely wealthy people or class systems. Again, this is so totally out of my usual world of reading. You all make it fun, though. :)

This is a socialist at heart you're typing to! I've never been able to enjoy reading anything about extremely wealthy people or class systems. Again, this is so totally out of my usual world of reading.

Ah, then it's Sense and Sensibility you should be reading. Austen really brings home the injustice of it all in that book. Actually, Pride and Prejudice does too, although it's a bit more of a fairy tale.

Oh, no!!! Joyce!!! How many of these books can I possibly read?! That will take forever. ;)

On the other hand, it seems as if I'm the only person in the world who has never read those Jane Austen classics.

We'll first have to see how long it takes me to get through Emma.

The first Austen is always the most difficult (though that's not saying much). Once you finish Emma, you'll start craving Austen on a regular basis :-)

Uh oh!! :O

#99: A lot of these type of farmers in New Zealand especially were able to buy vast tracts of fertile land and were more managers of their huge properties than farmers in the literal sense. Most owned sheep stations in the South Island of New Zealand. The gentry farmer was always recognised as being of that upper class, just without the prospects of the older son. Returning to England didn't gain them a title or landholdings. Most prospered and preferred to stay in their adopted country as there were many more opportunities there. There have always been poor and rich farmers everywhere.

Ah, then it's Sense and Sensibility you should be reading. Austen really brings home the injustice of it all in that book.

Or Persuasion, which openly prefers professional men to mere "gentlemen".

Sorry, Madeline! :)

With a lot of younger sons, it was out of sight, out of mind - a lot of them never went back to England. Of course, if you did happen to reappear some years later with a fortune, it would be no questions asked; although that was more likely if you were packed off to India and became involved in trade.

Although everywhere they went the British took their class system with them, life in Australia was of necessity more egalitarian. In the cities there was an attempt to keep up the class barriers, but life generally was too hard for that sort of thing. "Farming" wasn't like it was in England - it was more like American pioneering. There were great distances involved and people were often very isolated. It was more about survival than making money.

So, during the 19th century, was class status as big a big deal in New Zealand as it had been in England?

> 105

Hehe! Liz, you read my mind. You answered my question just as I was asking it!

Well, not quite - I'm only speaking for Australia, where of course there was a convict class to look down on, which simplified things. :)

Then again, a lot of ex-convicts re-established themselves after they'd served their time and became successful businessmen and farmers; it wasn't necessarily held against them; particularly since an awful lot of transportations were for fairly trivial offences.

And now we've reached the point where having convict ancestry is something to brag about. I don't have it, alas! (No offence to my law-abiding ancestors.)

And now we've reached the point where having convict ancestry is something to brag about.

:)

#106: Less so, though for society people it would always be important. A lot of people embraced the freedom the colonies gave them and a lot of people brought their prejudices with them.
The Secret River gives a good look at Australian convict settlers. I can't currently think of a specific adult historical novel set in New Zealand that covers similar ground, I tend to read more modern stuff. Fleur Beale's YA A Respectable Girl comes to mind as it covers this cultural/class clash very well.

There are so many directions I can go with what I'm learning from Emma. Although I won't fulfill my October TIOLI challenge by reading this book so slowly, I think that's good way for me to get more out of it and perhaps even learn to appreciate 19th century fiction a bit.

By the way, I'm taking note of the books that all of you are mentioning. Thanks for the suggestions.

Emma - Chapter 10

Okay. I got to a part that did make me laugh out loud. Emma tore off her boot string as an excuse to stop by Mr. Elton's house with Harriet so that Harriet and Mr. Elton would chat. I admit that this part of the story is amusing. :)

Let's talk about old maids. Was it okay to be an old maid as, according to what Emma said, it was just a matter of having money? The richer the unmarried woman, the less the stigma of being unmarried?

Pretty much, yeah. A woman who was unmarried but didn't inherit/earn enough money to take care of herself was a burden on someone, usually her family.

Hmmm. It's nice that women now have the option of careers and supporting themselves. It must have been rough back then...

And it was a responsibility that passed from father to son. Many young men were never able to marry because they couldn't support a wife as well as their mother and/or their sisters. One of Trollope's novels, The Bertrams, I think, deals with this.

Of course, we're dealing here with "good" men. In reality there were plenty (although novels don't generally admit this) who took the money and essentially left their mothers and sisters to starve.

The presumption was, if a woman had money she could choose to marry or not. If she didn't, she had to marry if she possibly could, and if she didn't it was because no man wanted her. Hence the stigma.

The fact was, by the 19th century England had been at war for about a hundred years, and there was a massive surplus of women. Men could pick and choose. But even if every man got married, there would still have been swarms of women left over. And yet, it was very late in the century before anyone could accept the idea of a woman - a "lady", that is - learning something useful and being able to support herself.

Phew! I think we chose the correct century into which to be born! :)

Confession time: I'm liking this book so far better than I thought I would. Perhaps it's the company? :)

I knew it I knew it I knew it!

But of course... :)

:)

I hope it stays kind of funny. I like being amused...

I see I'd been missing a most interesting conversation.

Madeline, I only read my first Jane Austen novel this year, and though I have read a few 19th century novels and quite enjoyed them, I was quite at a loss in Austen's world too; therefore didn't enjoy the three novels I've read so far (S&S, P&P, MP) all that much. Maybe if I'd had Liz and Nora coaching me along the way they've been doing with you, I would have gotten a lot more out of them and been more appreciative. As it is, I dropped out of the Austenathon and decided to put off reading the other JA novels on my TBR until... someday when I'm dying to read some Austen novels (not likely to happen, but you never know).

Ilana, why don't you pick up a copy of Emma and join me for a shared read in challenge #1 of the TIOLI challenges this month? I am reading this book so slowly that I'll probably carry it over to November's challenges (if it fits), but that's okay even if it doesn't fit anywhere (and even if that was my own challenge!).

I love the comments by Liz, Kerry, and Nora - almost liking them more than the novel itself. It would be fun to have you here making comments as well.

I don't do well with group reads. Usually the pacing is all wrong for me. If you want to join us here on this thread, note that I'm reading no more than a chapter a day. Each chapter is only about 5 or 6 pages which can be read in about 15-30 minutes. I'm labelling each post with a chapter number just in case others are reading Emma and don't want to see spoilers.

I'm also giving "comic relief" by posting all sorts of other messages here that have more to do with me and nothing to do with Emma at all. You're welcome to join us.

Thanks for the invitation to this interesting discussion. I love Austen and dystopian fiction too but I'd never thought to juxtapose them. I'm not quite as far along as you, so I'll play catch-up. Has anybody recommended What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens Knew? If you're inclined to invest in another book, this one is pretty handy for all things British 19th century. (JA said that Emma was a heroine that only an author could love, by the way.)

>125 SqueakyChu:

If you're inclined to invest in another book, this one is pretty handy for all things British 19th century.

Hi Peggy ... and welcome!

Should we try to read Emma a chapter a day? Perhaps you can read two chapters a day until you catch up. I'm not motivated to go any faster, thank you very much. :)

I'm not about to major in 19th century lit. I'm just forcing myself to read one book with everyone's motivation and assistance! :D

Truthfully, I usually avoid all British books as well as 19th century literature.

If you're inclined to invest in another book, this one is pretty handy for all things British 19th century.

Emma is beginning to grow on me. I have friends who are just as clueless as Emma seems to be. I feel as if I know her already.

JA said that Emma was a heroine that only an author could love, by the way.

So, does that mean, if I like Emma, I'm a good writer? ;)

> 65

If One is to slow waaaay down and actually read every word and think about every sentence. And if something can be taken as funny, then it is

Thanks for these two hints, Joyce. They have been really very helpful so far.

Truthfully, I usually avoid all British books as well as 19th century literature.

Just the opposite of me! I love, love, love British books. New ones, old ones, ones in between. Love them. I have to make an effort to read non-British books. So I'm glad to hear you're having some fun with Emma.

> 127

Hmmm? I suppose you like those Brit-coms, too? ;)

I have friends who are just as clueless as Emma seems to be. I found myself wanting to shout at Emma to wake her up because she was so completely misreading everything - infuriating woman!

Chapter 11 - Emma

Line I thought was funny...Mr. Woodhouse reflects on Mrs. Weston's marriage:

"I cannot deny that Mrs. Weston, poor Mrs. Weston, does come and see us pretty often--but then--she is always obliged to go away again."

I laughed at that line, but, then again, I can identify with it. Our youngest child, a daughter, moved with her fiance to another city where she's going to law school. I keep thinking that it's not fair that she can't stay here at home with me and my husband any more. I understand Mr. Woodhouse's feelings. :)

Now I'm confused, though. Who wrote that letter at the end of the chapter? Who are the Westons (I thought I knew), and who are the Churchills? And why is there an F.C. Weston Churchill? :/

When Mr Weston's first wife died, he allowed his son Frank to be brought up by her (wealthy) relatives, the Churchills. The boy compromises and placates everyone by using both surnames - Frank Weston Churchill.

I now remember reading about the name Churchill. I'll have to reread the last part of Chapter 11. How confusing! I can't keep these people and names straight. :(

Re: The 11 in 11 Category Challenge

This is just a note to say that I've lost interest in that challenge and won't be continung it as the 12 in 12 challenge. It seems to repeat what I post in my individual thread too much.

I'm just up to chapter 10, so it won't be long before I am with you. Two comments!
I remember the trouble I had with "unexceptionable" as a complimentary adjective when I was first reading JA. We want ourselves to be exceptional which is kind of, sort of the opposite of unexceptionable. I might wish for more attention to be paid to courtesy and the decencies as I see them, but it's pretty nice to be free of that rigid societal constraint.
I have to say that Emma is striking me at this reading as the perfect prototype of a young woman with GOOD SELF-ESTEEM, which seems to be the major goal of many parents for their children. I believe I'd hand the book to every prospective parent and say, "Here is the end result of letting a child think that everything she does is right without giving her a solid basis for making decisions." That's close to a rant, so I'll go quietly now.

>#134 Actually, I think that's a very astute comment.

> 134, 135

My clueless friend in real life has a very high self esteem. Just sayin'.

Chapters 12 and 13 of Emma:

So now there are two Emma's in this story. Eight-month-old Emma, daughter of Mr. John Knightly, and Emma Woodhouse, sister-in-law of Mr. John Knightly. I know that succeeding generations are named ater previous ones, but it makes readin so hard!

The suggestion is made that Mr. Perry should look at those who are ill. Is he a doctor? If so, why is he not called Dr. Perry?

More or less the same reason that surgeons are called "Mr" and not "Dr" today.

Medicine only slowly became a respectable profession and there were various "standings" within it, where perversely the most "gentlemanly" doctors often never touched their patients; they merely consulted and gave advice. Then there were surgeons and apothecaries and (male) midwives other more hands-on medicos who actually dealt with the icky parts of the business. If the Woodhouses' doctor is called "Mr", it indicates that he is a gentleman-physician and not the more common kind.

(These things evolved over the 19th century; Middlemarch is a good look at the difficulties of being both a gentleman and a doctor at this time.)

And don't worry about little Emma; I think this is the only point at which she's called by name. :)

Edited to add: You would appreciate the closing stages of my recent read, Judith Paris, where the rebellious Judith makes a point of NOT calling her son by a family name.

You would appreciate the closing stages of my recent read, Judith Paris, where the rebellious Judith makes a point of NOT calling her son by a family name.

Haha! You're right. I like the Ashkenazi Jewish tradition in which we only name a baby after someone deceased. In my husband's family (he's a Jewish convert, but his family is Hispanic Catholic), there are four members with the first two names of Jose Luis (he, his brother-in-law, his niece's husband, and his niece's son. Fortunately, in his family, all four of these individuals go by distinct nicknames.

We don't call surgeons "Doctor"? I didn't know that (...and I'm a nurse!).

Speaking of doctors who never touch their patients, I once had the experience of a medical student in a doctor's office giving one of my children a complete examination through clothing! Needless to say, I found a different doctor immediately.

I was supposed to be named after my (paternal) grandmother, but my mother was hospitalised for months after I was born and she ended up naming me after the nurse who mainly looked after her. My grandmother never forgave either of us.

Ah, families...

As for doctors, it's all undergone a strange inversion: it used to be general physicians who were the top-rankers and surgeons who were a lower class of doctor, but now it's the other way around and surgeons get to be called "Mr" to show they're better than "just" a doctor.

Edited once again to add: It occurs to me that this is a "Commonwealth" thing and probably doesn't happen in America.

It occurs to me that this is a "Commonwealth" thing and probably doesn't happen in America.

Hmmm, I don't think so. In Canada both physicians and surgeons are doctors. I won't speak for the rest of the Commonwealth though.

his family is Hispanic Catholic), there are four members with the first two names of Jose Luis (he, his brother-in-law, his niece's husband, and his niece's son.

Sounds like 100 Years of Solitude. And there I thought Gabriel Garcia Marquez was just being difficult. Turns out he's being normal, I guess.

> 140

It occurs to me that this is a "Commonwealth" thing and probably doesn't happen in America.

It doesn't happen here in the US. We address both our medical doctors and our surgeons as "Doctor". I think, though surgeons have a higher status here, especially those that have an advanced specilaty as opposed to just being a general surgeon.

By the way, PhDs in the US in other areas beside medicine put a great premium in being addressed as "Doctor". It's a status thing. Ho hum! Just like in Emma. :D

> 142

You know, Joyce, One Hundred Years of Solitude came to my mind, too, when I was complaining about all the names being alike in Emma.

Operation Paperback:

Want to support our troops? This is what I've been doing tonight. Please join me.

>144 SqueakyChu: Me, three!

I've got Emma and will start it today. I'm going to read three chapters a day so I can finish it this month.

> 146

I'm going to read three chapters a day so I can finish it this month.

Hurray! The more, the merrier. The chapters are short, and, with this excellent company, it'll be easy to do.

#145 That program is a great idea! I should check and see if there is a canadian version that I can contribute to!

#128 Hmmm? I suppose you like those Brit-coms, too? ;)

I'm not actually sure what you're referring to--I don't watch much TV--but I do love British romantic comedies starring Hugh Grant and Colin Firth. Hugh Grant is hilarious, and Colin Firth is charming . . . sigh, . . . .

Brit-coms = British comedy on TV. I don't watch any TV any more due to my hearing loss, but I never could endure those British comedies. They were never funny to me. My best friend simply adores them! :)

Chapters 14 and 15 of Emma

So Emma ended up in the carriage alone with Mr. Elton. Is that situation frowned upon? Did unmarried women have chaperones at that time, or was it okay for them to be alone with a man in a carriage?

My favorite character so far is Mr. Woodhouse. He has all these little quirks that I find appealing. :)

The insistence upon chaperonage wasn't so severe in the country, particularly in small communities where everyone knew everyone else, and amongst the gentry as opposed to the aristocracy.

Besides, Mr Elton is a clergyman and therefore respectable and entirely to be trusted. :)

Hmmm. I somehow missed that he was a clergyman. :(

At the Weston's party, what does James do while the party is in session? I'm assuming he cannot mingle with the family. Am I correct?

I can't say that this is a very exciting book, but I love asking you questions about it, Liz! :)

Why, thank you! :) The excitement in Austen is usually (not strictly always) confined to what's going on in people's hearts and heads.

It's easy enough to miss. Austen's books are filled with clergymen who don't particularly "act" like clergymen, for a variety of reasons. An overriding one is that, as we've touched on before, there were very few professions that were considered "gentlemanly", and the church was a dumping ground for younger sons, whether or not they had any calling - and many didn't. Of all Austen's clergyman, probably only Edmund Bertram, from Mansfield Park, seems to have any real vocation.

James would spend his time with the household servants, probably in the kitchen, where he would be fed and watered, as it were.

I was just now wondering if the expression "Home, James" had anything to do with Emma. It does not. This is what I found out.

This knowledge, then, leads me to question if "James" was a name particularly fit for a servant (or driver)? If so, why?

I think everyone was named James, really. But a servant was more likely to be called by his first name than his last, and vice versa for gentlemen.

Following this conversation with interest. I read Jane Austen maybe 30 years ago, ignorant of social context.

> 157

Do you want to read Emma with us now? :)

158: Maybe I should've qualified "interest"... :-)

Catching up a little (although I lag behind in my reading with Emma and company only having just arrived at Randalls). James's daughter was a servant at the Westons, so he was looking forward to going there. (I had to check to see who James was, and that's how I found out....Love my Kindle!) What I particularly liked in my latest reading was the authorial comment that Mr. Woodhouse had attributed a lot of his own ideas to Mr. Perry without realizing it in his first conversation with Mr. John Knightly. I'm sure I must do that all the time. It's a wonderful example of why I love Austen!
"Home, James!" Who knew? Thanks, Madeline.

Is there a list somewhere of all the Emma characters? I no sooner read about them then I forget them. :(

There are lists, but not without spoilers - it would be safer to keep posting your questions here.

Boo for the spoilers! :(

Personally, there's nothing I hate more than when novels include family trees and character lists that tell you who dies, who marries, who someone's parents will eventually be... I know they're supposed to be helpful, but---

Is there a list somewhere of all the Emma characters? I no sooner read about them then I forget them. :(

There actually aren't that many, but I know what you mean and what you're going through. Until you're familiar with Austen's novels, it does feel that way. Okay, here is the list of principle characters, copied from Wikipedia, spoilers removed.

Emma Woodhouse

George Knightley, about thirty-seven3 years old, is a close friend of Emma,

Mr. Frank Churchill, Mr. Weston's son by his previous marriage, is an amiable young man,

Jane Fairfax, an orphan whose only family consists of an aunt, Miss Bates, and a grandmother, Mrs. Bates, is regarded as a very beautiful, clever, and elegant woman, with the best of manners, and is also very well-educated and exceptionally talented at singing and playing the piano; in

Harriet Smith, a young friend of Emma's, is a very pretty but unsophisticated girl who is too easily led by others, especially Emma; she has been educated at a nearby school.

Philip Elton is a good-looking, well mannered, and ambitious young vicar. Emma wants him to marry Harriet; he wants to marry Emma.

Augusta Elton, formerly Miss Hawkins, is Mr. Elton's wife. She is moneyed but lacks breeding and possesses moderately good manners, at best. She is a boasting, domineering, pretentious woman who likes to be the centre of attention and is generally disliked by Emma and her circle. She patronizes Jane, which earns Jane the sympathy of others.

Mrs. Anne Weston, formerly Miss Taylor, was Emma's governess for sixteen years and remains her closest friend and confidante after she marries Mr. Weston in the opening chapter. She is a sensible woman who adores and idolizes Emma. Mrs. Weston acts as a surrogate mother to her former charge and, occasionally, as a voice of moderation and reason, although she is the one to yield in arguments more often than not.

Mr. Weston, a recently wealthy man living in the vicinity of Hartfield, marries Emma's former governess, Miss Taylor, and by his first marriage is father to Frank Churchill, who was adopted and raised by his late wife's brother and sister-in-law. Mr. Weston is a sanguine, optimistic man, who enjoys socializing.

Miss Bates is a friendly, garrulous spinster whose mother, Mrs. Bates, is a friend of Mr. Woodhouse. Her accomplished niece, Jane Fairfax, is the light of her life.

Mr. Henry Woodhouse, Emma's father, is always concerned for his own health and comfort, and to the extent that it does not interfere with his own, the health and comfort of his friends. He is a valetudinarian (i.e., similar to a hypochondriac but more likely to be genuinely ill). He assumes a great many things are hazardous to one's health, and is generally a difficult person to handle because he is always fussing about the trifling things which bother him and which he assumes must bother everyone else just the same, to the point of trying to convince his visitors to deny foods he considers too rich. He laments that "poor Isabella" and especially "poor Miss Taylor" have married and been taken away from him, because since he is unhappy about their being gone, he assumes they must be miserable as well; moreover, he dislikes change in general, and marriage is a form of change.

Isabella Knightley (née Woodhouse) is the elder sister of Emma and daughter of Henry. She is married to John Knightley, and spends much of her time at home caring for her five children (Henry, 'little' John, Bella, 'little' Emma, and George).

John Knightley is Isabella's husband and George's younger brother. He is an old acquaintance of Jane Fairfax. He indulges his family's desires for visits and vacations, although he would prefer to stay at home, especially if the weather is less than perfect.

Hope that helps!

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Joyce!

That does help. I'll keep referring back to it. It doesn't help, though, that married woman have birth surnames and married surnames.

Who's Mr. Perry? I know that he's a friend of Henry Woodhouse. Do I need to know anything else about him at this point?

Gah! I could not do this with all my LT reads. I'd have to join the 5 Books in 2012 Challenge group instead of the 75 Books in 2012 Challenge Group if I only read Jane Austen books.

One thing I have learned is why there are Jane Austen book clubs. It seems that talking about a JA story reinforces it. I certianly do need the reinforcement!

per sparknotes: "Mr. Perry - An apothecary and associate of Emma’s father. Mr. Perry is highly esteemed by Mr. Woodhouse for his medical advice even though he is not a proper physician, and Mr. Woodhouse argues with his daughter Isabella over Perry’s recommendations."

Oh, yeah. Mr Perry. I thought he was a doctor. I see now, Nora, that he's a pharmacist.

*sees a bit more clearly now, but never knows when the fog shall return*

Audio Book:

I'm casting aside the audio book The Story Sisters by Alice Hoffman. It's just not keeping my interest up after listening to all of one CD. :(

Emma - Chapter 16

My question: If Mr. Elton was of a lesser status than Emma, why did he not hesitate to profess his love for her?

I'm wondering how Emma is going to present this predicament to Harriet. I shall find out... :)

Mr Elton is enough of "a gentleman" to get away with it. But he also misinterpreted Emma's behaviour to think she was encouraging him, which led him to take a step he wouldn't have otherwise. (He's also on the lookout for money, as we shall see...)

So men try to work their way up the money ladder via the women they marry?

Absolutely. Unless a family had a lot of money, younger sons would be significantly poorer than their eldest male sibling, and would be expected to provide for themselves via a good (i.e. profitable) marriage. The trade-off was usually his family / position for her money.

Another thing you'll see obsessively in the literature of this time is the settlement - the 19th century version of the pre-nup, wherein the future distribution of the bride's money would be sorted out before the wedding.

So, among brothers, were there usually hard feelings by the younger brothers toward the eldest brother because of the wealth that was given to him? Or was this just an accepted fact of life that the younger brothers were okay with?

I imagine it was both an accepted fact of life AND a matter for hard feelings. :)

It would have varied from family to family and person to person - some older brothers were generous and helpful, some were stingy and selfish. Some met their responsibilities and some wasted the family fortune, just because they could. Luck of the draw. But mostly accepted, I should think.

#161 - While I can't relate to reading Emma, I can definitely relate to having a hard time keeping characters straight! These days, I use a large index card as my bookmark and write the character names and a brief description of each one on the card. I do this while I'm reading, and it helps a lot. It's really not as annoying or time-consuming as it sounds.

> 176

Hehe! Kerri, I've always done this. I'm up to the second index card on Emma already. Characters are being introduced and confusing me faster in this book than I can write them down on index cards. :)

The last book I needed to do that for was The History of Love by Nicole Krauss. Character identity was so confusing in that book! It was good otherwise. I liked Krauss's book The Great House better because the story was just as good but the characters were not confusing.

What is a "vicar" (which is what Mr. Elton is)?

> 167

So Mr. Perry is an apothecary. What's the difference between an apothecary and a pharmacist?

#177 - Phew! I feel better. : )

I should really get out my *What JA Ate* book for this, but I'll tell you what I think and correct it later. A vicar is the clergyman in charge of a parish. He has the "living" which is the money and house allotted to run a particular church and is at the disposal of the wealthiest man (or most noble or of longest standing) in the community. The vicar may run the church himself or have a curate to do the work for him while he lives somewhere more interesting. Older men of good family may have several livings and do no work but live in London while they pay a lower-class clergyman to live on site and perform all church functions. Since Mr. Elton is young and just making his way, he is doing the work himself. I'll bet that his ambition is to arrive at a point where he can be an absentee vicar of several parishes.
I don't think that there's a difference between an apothecary and a pharmacist. He would be serving as the doctor in this country town whatever he was called. I wish I had paid better attention or retained more when we read Middlemarch because the relative importance of these different levels of medical practice were really pertinent to the plot, so Eliot goes into them pretty thoroughly. Seems as though we talked about them pretty thoroughly too over on the *Mm* thread, so if you're really interested, you could check it out!
What a lot to say from a shaky position!

Gah! I could not do this with all my LT reads. I'd have to join the 5 Books in 2012 Challenge group instead of the 75 Books in 2012 Challenge Group if I only read Jane Austen books.

Actually, you'd get the hang of it, and each book would get easier. All these things we've talked about are elements in all her novels, so you'd come in knowing more each time. After 5 or 6 books, it would be a breeze ;-) (ha ha I know there are only 6).

What is a "vicar" (which is what Mr. Elton is)

Oh my, England really is a foreign land for you, isn't it! ;-) A vicar is the Anglican version parish priest or minister. Very common character in British literature, films and comedies. My favourite is Mr. Beeb from Room With a View, but that's a whole different thread!

> 180

A vicar is the clergyman in charge of a parish

So what religion is a vicar? Catholic - since there's a "parish"?

What is a "curate"?

I don't think that there's a difference between an apothecary and a pharmacist. He would be serving as the doctor in this country town whatever he was called.

Hmmm? As a nurse, I'm not all too keen on an apothecary/pharmacist practicing medicine! ;)

What a lot to say from a shaky position!

Haha!

> 181

I don't know much (if anything about the Anglican religion). Can you explain it in a nutshell? Within Christianity, I'm most familiar with the tenets of Catholicism.

Oh my, England really is a foreign land for you, isn't it!

Does visiting a friend in London for five days still make it a foreign land for me? ;)

Very common character in British literature, films and comedies.

As you can tell from my lack of knowledge, I am not "into" British literature, films or comedies.

Hi Madeline, I'm enjoying reading about your journey through Emma and all the questions you are asking along the way - not least because it is showing me how much I take for granted as understood, but which are clearly not obvious to someone who's grown up in a different country and culture. I admire you for sticking with reading Jane Austen when so little of what she writes about is familiar to you!

What is a "vicar"
As it happens, I'm a vicar! They don't only exist in the 19th century, though in those days it was only men who could be vicars, thankfully that has changed at last... Another change since Austen's time is after various reforms we no longer have absentee vicars as described by Peggy in post #180, so I can't go off to live in London and leave all the hard work to a curate, but I have to do the hard work myself!

Both vicars and curates are job titles of ministers (priests) working in the Church of England, which is part of the world-wide Anglican church (eg the Episcopal Church in the US is also Anglican). As mentioned above, the Vicar is the minister in charge of the parish. The curate is usually an assistant or junior role - in Austen's day, as mentioned above, it was often the poor curate who ended up doing most of the work. These days a curate is usually a newly 'qualified' minister/priest serving a kind of apprenticeship alongside a more experienced colleague (the Vicar) for 3 or 4 years before moving on to be a vicar in his/her own right with their own parish.

The Anglican Church (originally just the Church of England until it spread initially through colonies to other parts of the world), was born in the religious and political upheavals of the 16th century during the time of the Reformation. Its three guiding principles are Scripture, Tradition and Reason. It shares some beliefs and practices with the Catholic church (eg structures that include bishops; importance of holy communion; emphasis on tradition), and some with the Reformed churches (eg emphasis on the Bible and preaching and individual faith). The typically Anglican bit is perhaps the 'Reason' - it is a form of Christianity which encourages a rational, liberal, enquiring approach and expects people to use their own minds to make sense of both tradition and scripture. However, you might say that Anglicans have always had a bit of an identity crisis - are they really Catholic or Protestant/Reformed? Within the Anglican church there are parts that are far more at one end and parts that are more at the other end - sometimes characterised as 'high church' (catholic) or 'low church (protestant). The Anglican church has a less centralised authority structure than the Catholic church - we don't have a Pope and the church in different provinces making decisions locally eg about issues to do with sexuality and gender. Those different approaches are putting a great strain on the unity of the church today - but that's another story...

In England, the Church of England is the established church, ie the official church formally linked to the state (the Queen is constitutionally the head of the Church, though the Archbishop of Canterbury is the spiritual leader). In Jane Austen's day, most people would be attending church as a matter of custom and the norms of society (not necessarily out of any deeply held convictions, though that would be true for some) and it would be the Church of England that the majority would attend. There had been various restrictions and penalties applied to people who chose to attend other churches (Catholic or Protestant), though these were beginning to be relaxed by Jane Austen's time. As the Church of England was part of the fabric of society and younger sons, as mentioned earlier by Liz, would often find that 'entering the Church' to become a vicar was the only option available to them, they would not necessarily be motivated by very strong convictions and many perhaps made more of the social aspect of their role than the spiritual. A bit later into the 19th century there were some movements of reform and revival which meant that there were more enthusiastic and spiritually minded clergymen in both the 'high church' and 'low church' camps who were stirring things up a bit (or making a nuisance of themselves?) but in JA's day the religion of the established church was probably fairly low-key, with an emphasis on the calm, rational approach.

Sorry for long post - hope some of that makes sense and that it's not too much information!

Gennyt - you summed up an entire religion in a few paragraphs, so, no, not too much information. Well done! (and did you leave out the Henry VIII divorce and land-grab on purpose?)

#185 Re Henry VIII - I hoped I'd got away with mentioning 'religious and political upheavals' and leave it at that!

#186: :--)

184: Thanks for taking the time to write such a coherent summary! My mother (born in 1930, in the US) has mentioned high church / low church divisions during her childhood as the reason she still has visceral reactions to certain church rituals (e.g. kneeling while praying), even though her family lapsed from church attendance 70 years ago.

I was sure we could rely on Genny for a comprehensive answer to THAT question. :)

I find that perhaps the most difficult thing for modern readers to grasp in 19th century literature is the religious implications. It was a time of friction and schism within the Anglican church and "religion", as a subject for debate, was everywhere. Novels of the time, even when they aren't dealing with the subject directly, are full of allusions and take their readers' knowledge for granted - and it really is a foreign country. Trollope's Barchester novels are the perfect example - it's now a real struggle to grasp exactly what the issue is between the Grantley faction and the Proudie faction (i.e. "High Church" vs "Low Church"), whereas contemporary readers would have taken it all in their stride.

I haven't abandoned everyine with the reading of Emma. I just took a pause to observe Yom Kippur, the most solemn day of Jewish holidays. I'm back and ready to read with you again.

Thank you, genny, for your wonderful and detailed decription of the Anglican church. No, it's not too much information. All of it was interesting and informative to me. I appreciate your taking the time to post it.

As it happens, I'm a vicar

Well, I asked the right person! :)

I didn't know that the Queen is the head of the Church of England. Is that one reason that England does not want to rid itself of the monarchy? Having a queen might be nice, but it seems to put such excess "baggage" on life in such countries. That might just be a personal opinion, though, where I resent people of "high" status beng deemed so much worthier than others. This could also be just my socialistic tendencies showing, though.

One of the things I like about the U.S. Constitution is the separation of church and state. Religions so often confouns politics. I think that's one of the main reasons that Israel is never going to get out of its problems. It is a declared democracy, but, in reality, it operates as a theocracy. :(

Back to reading Emma...

Emma - Chapter 17

...in which Emma vows to do no more matchmaking.

This thought always amuses me because my husband never liked when I (younger, of course) used to try to match up my single friends. To my credit, though, I did introduce one couple to each other back at a party my roommates and I held back in the 70's. Happily, that couple, to this day, remains is in a warm and loving marriage (with three grown children of which I know). :)

I just added the book Timbuktu to my library here at LT. I was amused by how many different kinds of dogs were on the covers of various editions. Notice the dogs' expressions as well. They're hilarious!

Emma - Chapter 18

...in which Frank Churchill Weston does not show up at his father's home.

I get the idea that Mr. Weston does not care for his son that much. I know why his son was raised by the Churchills, but that seems sad since Mr. Weston had no other children. I'm not sure what the real reason was for his son not coming to visit. Maybe that will come out later in the story.

Please note: I made it all the way through Volume I. Hooray! Honestly, I cannot see myself working this hard to make my way through another Jane Austen novel after I finish this book. I guess I can continue on with this novel now since I have other Emma readers doing it with me. I must warn others, however, there is no way I'm going to finish this novel this month. It is too tedious and slow. Confession: I've been reading other books in the meantime.

Allow me to be a little sad that you chose Emma to be your one and only. I'm enjoying it again, but I love Austen for her wit, and I'm excited when I find something in this book, whereas others are full of it. I love it, for instance, when Emma is regretting her management of Harriet's non-affair: "It was rather too late in the day to set about being simple-minded and ignorant;" If that doesn't tickle something, I guess JA is not for you.
I'm beginning chapter III of part two, and I never, ever can read just one thing at a time. I do plan to finish Emma this month though.

I'm a one-at-a-time reader, and I wonder whether more constant reading would help you, Madeline? (Although I understand of course that if you're not enjoying it, that's easier said than done.) For myself, as you know, I read a lot of 17th century writing and original texts with the long 's', and I find that with each bout of reading there's a period of "brain adjustment", after which I get into the rhythm of the writing. I try to read for reasonably lengthy periods each time because I find it easier to absorb the text that way.

But if something doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work; and all the pleading and nagging and pushing in the world won't change that. (No matter how tempting it is.) I remember when someone---Ilana, was it?---said they found Austen incomprehensible but Henry James easy to read, I nearly fell over - that, to me, was unimaginable - but again, it's one of those things that you just have to accept.

I'm a one-at-a-time reader, and I wonder whether more constant reading would help you, Madeline?

It wouldn't. This kind of reading is too slow for me. I feel like jumping ship, but I'll stick with it as long as I have you here. This is just not the kind of book I like. I want to get through it just to know I'll have at read at least one Jane Austen book in its entirety during my lifetime. :)
The other books I'm reading concurrently provide me with some relief.

Another issue is that the copy of Emma that was sent to me via BookMooch is a yellowing, very old mass market paperback with small print. It is annoying to read because I literally have to force the book open to read the text toward the inside of the pages. I'm going to try to get a better copy of this book at the library soon.

Oh, those old books can be so annoying. When did the print and binding shrink? I've tossed several old editions of classics that had perfectly gigantic type when I was 15 or 20, and were easy to hold in the hand, because of shrinkage. I didn't put them in the dryer either.

I'm a little toward Lyzard's way of thinking. I fall into the rhythm of a writer's style after a bit, and then can read faster and keep the names straight, even if the style is a bit antiquated. Then again, I also prefer reading one thing at a time. How this will serve as I begin Middlemarch, I have no idea.

Judy, I predict that you will love it - which means only that I love it.

>#198 And there was me so carefully holding my tongue...

Ibid. :)

> 197

Middlemarch is the last of five books that my niece is reading for her 19th century lit class at Princeton. She's already well into her third book, but I'm only 1/3 of the way through her first book. Guess I'm not Princeton material. Ha!

Emma - Vol. 2 - Chapter 1

...whereby Emma and Harriet visit Mrs. and Miss Bates

Who are all these people?! They've entered the story, but I have no idea from where or who each is or even how each is related to the other. Who is Mr. Dixon? Who are Colonel and Mrs. Campbell? I assume that Jane Fairfax must be Miss Bates' niece as Jane calls Mrs. Bates "grandmamma". Is that a correct assumption?

What does "under my housewife" mean? ...as in the letter was "under my housewife".

There is NO WAY that I could do this book in any larger doses.

(quote) A "housewife," more commonly spelled as hussif, huswife, or hussive, was a pocket case made to hold a selection of needles, thread, pins, and in some of the larger ones, even scissors.

Colonel and Mrs Campbell are the people Jane Fairfax was living with, as companion to their daughter. Miss Campbell is now married to Mr Dixon, so Jane is out of a job. That's why she's visiting the Bateses who are, yes, her grandmother and aunt.

I think. :)

59. Fat Land - Greg Critser



As an overweight (a bit, not too much) person myself, I found much to fear in this book about the growing trend toward obesity within the population of the United States. Daily, I see more and more people around me (good friends and relatives included) who are truly obese, and I do worry about them.

Criter's book talks about the forces which have driven Americans to be the most overweight people in the world, the way the products Americans eat (or maybe should not eat) change our bodies, and techniques for dealing with the now startling rate of growth of obesity among children. I found there to be some dry reading in the parts of Critser's book where he cites various studies. However, the best part of the book is the end where he discusses how we can and should help our children deal with weight issues now.

This book is a good introduction to the serious issue of obesity as a health problem. I think what was missing from this book was more of a focus on how this problem should be addressed currently with adults.

Rating - 2.5 stars

> 202

Very cool - about the hussif! Any idea how it got that name?

who are, yes, her grandmother and aunt.

Phew! At least I figured something out! :D

P.S. I'm up to 1 1/2 index cards full of character descriptions - and still going strong! :)

> 59

As a follow up to my comments about Fat Land, I just want to say that the book that had the greatest impression on how I now eat was reading the book by Morgan Spurlock called Don't Eat This Book: Fast Food and the Supersizing of America. Its information provided my incentive to start boycotting fast food places and become actively involved in CSA (community supported agriculture) as well as get back to vegetable gardening for fun.

I have a spectacular range of allergies that keep my diet restricted, so I'm constantly struggling with ways to get some variety into it and to keep up my vegetable intake. What I find hard is that my healthy snack options are among the items restricted, which tends to lead me too easily into the realm of fat and salt.

I'm not sure on the origin of "housewife", but the term was in use right through the 18th century. Apparently it is pronounced "hussif".

I have a severe weight problem. I'm responsible for what I now put in my mouth as an adult, but the issue originated with my family who put me on a diet when I was 12 for being "fat" when I was no such thing. Food was restricted and I didn't start putting on weight until I was an adult and free to purchase and eat what and where I wanted. I didn't learn what normal eating was until I took binge eating classes. I've since lost 110 pounds (still have a long way to go.)

Society puts too much emphasis on being skinny and someone with the least bit of curves get called fat. This causes all sorts of issues.

I have a severe weight problem.

I know that, Morphy, and I am very proud of you for recognizing the need to try to improve your health. It cannot be an easy task. "Skinny" is not for all of us. I have a friend who had just the opposite problem. Parental overinvolvment with food contributed to her severe anorexia. That is also a very severe health risk.

Maybe we'll not all reach our perfect weight goal. I probably won't, though I have less weight to lose to reach that "ideal" status. Maybe we'll not even get near our "ideal" weight. However, *any* effort we put into improving our health is a step in the right direction. Even if we fail over and over again, at least we are trying. I can say the same thing for smokers, drinkers, etc.

What makes me mad is the part of our American society which pushes unhealthy food (packaged foods, snack foods, dubious ingredients), advertises the same almost continuously in all media, takes away the need for activity (not all of which is fun), and, as you said, creates a "vision" of what is ideal so that those who fall outside of the parameters are thought of with less worth.

Just curious, Morphy. What made you finally start thinking about weight loss? With me, it was that my blood pressure started creeping up, and I didn't want to go on blood pressure medication.

I'm not out for a perfect world. I just want those I care about to be as healthy as they can so they can be here with me for a long, long time. Sadly, in life, there are no promises for that either.

> 209

the issue originated with my family who put me on a diet

Is that something that parents feel compelled to do? Monitor a child's weight and try to control it?

I always worried about my daughter's being too thin until a doctor told me that she was "perfect". I finally shut up about her weight. I think that doctor was trying to tell me something very important.

Can we, as a society, first start by working with parents when dealing with the weight of children? There is probably no "perfect" weight, despite all the graphs ever made. There is a way to teach kids how to make wise choices and give them *gentle* guidance.

#207 and 208 - I can totally relate! Last year, mostly due to a really disturbing family history of heart attacks and strokes, I decided to get healthy. My cholesterol was high and my blood pressure was borderline (and I'm 38). Since then, I've lost about 50 pounds and started running (I did a half marathon in August).

I think it was really important for me to realize that not every weight loss strategy or healthy eating strategy works for everyone, and you have to find what works for you. (I actually read a good book about this and forgot the title.) I would get discouraged because I would keep trying and failing at the Weight Watchers point thing (or calorie counting) over and over again. While this works great for some people (I'm not criticizing it), it never worked for me. When I found what works for me, it all fell into place. I still would like to lose a bit more, but I'm happy that my blood pressure is now fine and my cholesterol has gone down 40 points. So, good luck, everyone!

I decided to really concentrate on my weight when I simply couldn't get around anymore. I can walk for a few yards, then need to sit down. I can't shop, walk my dog, or go to a movie. My world has become very small. It became deadly serious this last year with THREE skin infections that involved hospitalizations caused in part by my huge apron (poor circulation.) I never want to go through that again.

I'm doing it by journaling my food, staying within my calorie range and pool exercise.

I do find that the less processed a food is, the more I can usually have of it for fewer calories and feel more satisfied. I allow myself goodies ("bad food") but in reason and in normal portions. For example, if I want a fast food cheeseburger, I get a cheeseburger and a regular fry and not a double bacon cheeseburger, large fries, and a chocolate shake. Even so, I have to adjust for it the rest of the day. Also, I add foods. I try to have fruit and vegetables with every meal or snack.

Typical day:
Breakfast - cereal and skim milk
AM Snack - OJ and 1/2 turkey sandwich
Lunch - chili with rice or leftover spaghetti, apple sauce, 1 snack sized candy bar or 2 Dove squares
PM Snack - Triscuits & Laughing Cow or almonds/cashews, grapes or cantaloupe
Dinner - BBQ chicken, yellow rice, broccoli, 2 Oreos or grilled pork, potatoes, peas, 1/2 cup ice cream

Morphy, I really admire your persistence. It's hard to do what needs to be done over and over again. I'm not obese, but too heavy for good health, and it's been the devil's own time trying to stay on course - I feel so stalled. My dear SO is also overweight, and struggling as well.

I must also observe that it's not only in the weight department that I feel stalled - so some real life-style adjustment is called for! Sometimes I think I should park a dumpster below my apartment and just toss out everything (but it would e 15 floors - i doubt my aim is that good) and start from empty.

Here's to a year of success in all our struggles!

> 210

I decided to get healthy

Kerri, good for you! ..and running, too!! I really hate exercise so I try to walk (a little) and garden. I probably should do more, but unless I enjoy my exercise, I won't do it.

I, too, found a correlation between weight loss and a reduction in blood pressure. It sure beats having to start taking blood pressure medication.

> 211

I am rooting for you, Morphy. I don't want you to have to return to the hospital.

I'm doing it by journaling my food, staying within my calorie range and pool exercise

I, too, have found that the only way I can stay on a weight loss diet is by doing a food log every day. If I don't do this food log, I don't stick to my diet plan. I simply use a top calorie per day amount (1200 calories per day with maybe a cheat or two!). I basically following the American Diabetic Association diet even though I'm not diabetic. It's a healthy food plan. I also don't usually buy packaged foods or fast food. I do buy chocolate which I always fit somewhere into my diet. :)

I used to fit 1/2 cup ice cream into my diet, too! Yes!!

My theory about diet is that you need to eat the foods you love, but in the right amounts. I could never get into "low fat" anything or "diet" anything. I just made the amounts smaller to fit within my caloric limit.

Morphy, have you ever questioned what goes into fast food? After reading Morgan Spurlock's book, I was truly aghast at what I had been previously eating.

I like the advice that I read somewhere that says if you cannot identify what an ingredient is that is in your food, that's the key to not eat it! :)

> 212

Here's to a year of success in all our struggles!

Cheers, Judy!

Middlemarch is the last of five books that my niece is reading for her 19th century lit class at Princeton. She's already well into her third book, but I'm only 1/3 of the way through her first book. Guess I'm not Princeton material. Ha!

I'm interested in what books your niece read for this course. I didn't go to Princeton, but her class sounds along the lines of the 19th century British lit that I did. We read Jane Austen (Mansfield Park) as part of a Romantic period course, and then in the Victorian period course we read Confessions of an Opium Eater, Jane Eyre, Lady Audley's Secret, Bleak House (which is over 1000 pages), and Doctor Jekyl and Mr Hyde. Those were two of my favourite uni classes, in part because I had amazing profs.

> 216

Joyce, here are Stephanie’s assigned books at Princeton. She is currently taking 19th century fiction.
1. Emma – Jane Austen
2. Jane Eyre – Charlotte Brontë
3. Vanity Fair- William Makepeace Thackeray
4. Our Mutual Friend – Charles Dickens
5. Middlemarch - George Eliot

This became part of the October TIOLI challenges! :)

#217 -- Ooooh, ALL of those are on the longish side! That's a lot of reading. This is first year?

Emma - Vol 2 - Chapters 2 and 3

...in which Harriet runs into Elizabeth Martin and (I presume that was) Mr. Richard Martin and whereby Harriet feels awkward.

1. Talking about Jane Fairfax's father, why is it written "Leiutenant Fairfax of the ______ regiment"? Why is the name not stated? Any particular reason?

2. Am I to assume that Mr. Dixon prefers Jane Fairfax to his own wife?

3. Just curious. How do Jane Austen's other novels differ from Emma?

1. It was a convention of the time to avoid real identifiers. You'll often see novels with addresses written as "----- Street, London" and so on.

2. Wait and see...

3. Emma differs chiefly because of its heroine's comfortable life and (comparative) autonomy. Generally Austen's novels are more about girls trying to hold onto their own values in difficult financial circumstances and/or in a family where they are not valued, if not an outright burden. The examination of life within a very structured society with limited options for young women and the satirical attitude is fairly constant.

Wait and see...

LOL!!

1. Which is your favorite JA novel, Liz?

2. Why is this novel so verbose?

> 218

This is first year?

Yes, Joyce. She just started university in September and, prior to that, she took me for a tour of almost the entire campus. It's simply gorgeous! It was the first time I ever set foot on the campus of an ivy league university. I was very impressed. I'm very excited for her being able to study at such a prestigious place!

She took me to one room that I recognized from the movie A Beautiful Mind. It gave me chills as I recalled the Oscar-winning story of the Nobel prize winner John Nash depicted in that film.

>#221 Hey, happy to explain what HAS happened, but I'm not going to forestall what MIGHT happen. :)

I don't think I have a favourite - they all have different attractions for me. I can say that like many people, I started out on Pride And Prejudice, and grew into a deeper appreciation of Mansfield Park and Persuasion.

You may find this difficult to believe, but Austen's novels were for many years my favourite holiday reading - my set of paperbacks travelled the world with me and got re-read every year. (It was always Sense And Sensibility on the plane, don't ask me why.)

I think you've taken on a tough job starting with Emma, because she is meant to be unlikeable in many ways, which I would think makes the journey harder. But then the novel's about her education, her waking up to life, so there has to be that beginning point.

And I-I-I-I-I don't find it verbose, or difficult. Sorry. :)

I don't know whether that's just greater familiarity with Austen or 19th century writing generally, but honestly I find her much more lucid than many of her contemporaries.

> 223

I think you've taken on a tough job starting with Emma, because she is meant to be unlikeable in many ways,

I can see why others might dislike Emma, Liz, but I don't dislike her at all. As a matter of fact, I probably would also try matchmaking if I were in her position as well. After all, I would want the best for my friends! :)

I don't know whether that's just greater familiarity with Austen or 19th century writing generally,

Probably both. As long as I've been reading fiction, I've been trying to avoid classics and pretty much stick to the most contemporary writing. I usually avoid anything that seems "dated" - even those novels written 50 or so years ago. I find experimental writing quite fun as well.

By the time I will finish the first novel of Stephanie's course, she should be about ready to start her second semster!! ;)

>Morphy, have you ever questioned what goes into fast food?

Yep, read about it. Don't care. Eat it anyway. :)

> 225

Eat it anyway

:)

Why is this novel so verbose?

Compared to other 19th century writers, I don't find her all that verbose either. But I know what you mean. That was the literary style--economy of language wasn't in fashion ;-) I'm currently reading Dracula, and I know it's not as verbose as most 19th century lit either. Still, I find there are pages where a lot of words don't say very much.

I'm just about caught up with you. I finished Volume 1 and will read the next 6 or so chapters today.

Joyce!

You are so lucky, Joyce! I loved reading Dracula - even though it was a 19th century novel and even though it was about a vampire. What drew me in was its creepiness and the mystery of it all. I also found the history of eastern Europe much more interesting than I do now of England (as I now plod my way through Jane Austen's Emma. Actually my mom grew up in the former Republic of Yugoslavia in a town that was not all that far from where Count Dracula lived in real life (of course, many years earlier!). I loved checking out those places mentioned in the book Dracula on the map.

I was drawn into reading Dracula after having read The Historian and being somewhat interested in the history and geography of Dracula's story. Everyone commented that I must read Bram Stoker's original novel, but, if truth be told, I had my copyof it many years before deciding to do just that. Come to think of it, it probably was a TIOLI challenge that actually made me start reading it. :)

> 288

I finished Volume 1 and will read the next 6 or so chapters today.

So what do you think of it so far, Morphy?

I'm sticking to my one or two chapters a day. That's the only way I'll make myself read this whole book. Sorry! :)

Madeline - yes, I'm loving the creepiness of Dracula. I could do with fewer pages of "we're moral upright English people" though! Give us the vampire! Like you, I really enjoyed all the history of eastern Europe--a region I knew quite little about. And I checked out the places too--the town of Sibiu looks gorgeous (look at the picture near the bottom of this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibiu). I'm now thinking I'd like to do a trip from Prague, through Hungary, and then into Romania. I wouldn't have thought of traveling to Romania if I hadn't read Dracula. And there is so much going on in the story. Yes, I'm definitely loving Dracula, and like you, I'm not into vampires at all. I think I have a copy of The Historian around somewhere. Must pull it out.

> 231

I'm now thinking I'd like to do a trip from Prague, through Hungary, and then into Romania.

Sounds like a fabulous trip! I've never been in that area although I did travel through Yugoslavia in 1974. The portion of the former Republic of Yugoslavia from which my mom's family originated had once been part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. Her cooking was always Hungarian (e.g. chicken paprikash, palacinta, goulash) in style. That thought is now making me hungry! :)

The Historian is a long-winded book. The first half is excellent with great travelogue sequences. The last half gets kind of bogged down. It's a good book, but not great.

> 231

Funny story about my copy of The Historian...

I got that book from a fellow Bookcrosser. Midway through reading the book, a card fell out of it with a picture of Count Dracula. That scared the hell out of me!

See journal entry #14. :D

Chicken paprikash . . . yum......(it's morning here and unfortunately no paprikash to be found, but you gave me an idea for dinner).

> 234

Do you have room for one more? ;)

>230 SqueakyChu: It's okay. I tried to listen to it on audiobooks months ago and got about this far before quitting in frustration. But in smaller doses (and the ability to skim) it's going along much better. Still not thrilled with Austen, but at least I can say I read it.

I want to finish it this month so am reading 3 chapters a day.

I am particularly enjoying the discussion though.

I am particularly enjoying the discussion though.

Yeah. Truly, the discussion is the only thing motivating me to continue reading Emma.

60. The Particular Sadness of Lemon Cake - Aimee Bender



This is one book that I did pick up knowing nothing about the story because I liked the title and the cover art. The story itself disappointed me somewhat, but the writing had some beautiful prose.

Rose Edelstein is a young girl with an unusual gift. Unfortunately, her ability to taste and know all about from where the makers of her food come from usually is an experience much more disquieting to her than it is illuminating. She lives in an odd family which reminded me a bit of the family in Myla Goldberg's Bee Season. There is the mom and dad, both kind of odd, and an older brother. In this case, mom is having an affair which she thinks is a well kept secret. Dad has a hospital phobia. Older brother Joseph has a strange ability which is divulged at a later time in the story.

Rose seems to always be at the edge of things. She very much likes the companionship of her brother's friend George. George, of course, treats Rose like Joseph's younger sister.

I came away from this story feeling as if something was left out. I don't know the outcome of this story as I have no idea what will happen to Rose in the future. I felt this even more so with Rose's parents as well as her mom and dad. It seemed as if the novel were presenting problems with no solutions.

The writing is lyrical, though, and the story can easily be read fairly quickly. I'd like to try something else by this same author because I have a feeling that I just might like her next book a whole lot better.

Rating - 2.5 stars

238: An Invisible Sign of My Own, maybe? I read it years ago; a gift from a friend because of the math. I have not read The Particular Sadness of Lemon Cake, but my impression from your review and others is that it pales in comparison.

Following the Emma commentary with some amusement. I recall enjoying it, but I didn't put anywhere near your effort into understanding it.

> 239

I recall enjoying it, but I didn't put anywhere near your effort into understanding it

What I'm really doing is trying to make reading Emma fun in some way.

An Invisible Sign of My Own, maybe?

Perhaps. I just wishlisted that book and a couple of her books of short stories.

Emma - Vol. 2 - Chapters 4 and 5

... in which Mr. Elton gets married and returns with his bride ... and Frank Weston Churchill finally arrives.

1. Why does it seem like all the characters in this novel do is to visit one another, over and over again? Don't they have anything else to do?!

2. Miss Hawkins older sister was married to a man with two carriages. Did that denote extreme wealth?

1. Because mostly, they don't; it was the attraction of being "ladies" and "gentlemen", and also the penalty. Work was only acceptable between extremely narrow parameters.

2. Vulgar wealth. :)

I initially wanted to read The Particular Sadness of Lemon Cake until I began reading reviews that showed everyone's disappointment with it. I marked it off of my TBR list after I kept seeing negative reviews. It looks like you shared the same disappointment. It's a shame because it was such a great title!

> 242

Work was only acceptable between extremely narrow parameters.

I don't think I'd have made it as a wealthy person back then. Frankly, it sounds quite boring. :)

241, #2 - carriages . . . the vast and various carriages in Jane Austen novels mirror our cars . . . someone with two carriages might be showing off their wealth. There are carriages that equal a Dodge minivan, and some that equal a Porsche convertible. What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens Knew is an excellent source for figuring it all out, however, you can pretty much figure it out in context. Just try picture what the scene would look like with cars.

> 243

You should read it, Lori. My daughter liked it. Others have liked it as well. It's easy to read. I just think that the author could have done a much more interesting novel if things happened differently, were developed more fully, or were further explained.

I found the first third of the novel kind of "fractured". The rest of it was pleasant reading mostly due to the way the author strung words together. That was nice.

Some examples:

"..when Mom and the new baby had several hours together, just staring into each other's eyes. His eyes, wobbly and new; hers, weary, alone, depthful."

or...

"He wiped his forehead down as if to pat his thinking into place, nodded a hello to George and then came up and hugged me tightly, closer than usual, his hands broad paddles on my back."

I found a line I like in my current read (The Grotesque by Patrick McGrath):

"I do not enter lightly into the foibles and whimsicalities of others, I do not suffer fools gladly, I seem able, in conversation, only to needle or be needled."

I love the strange characters that McGrath creates. He does weird so well! Don't these words give you a preview of a character you'd love to hate? :)

I felt like you did about Particular Sadness. It could have been a great book and instead it didn't quite come up to snuff. Beautiful writing but the plot left far too much unsaid and how the brother ended up was just too weird for me and I'm a HUGE fantasy reader.

From Emma:

Okay, was it implied that Jane Fairfax was interfering in the relationship between the girl she was educated with and her beau (ugh, can't remember the names)? That the beau was more interested in Jane than the other girl?

Okay, was it implied that Jane Fairfax was interfering in the relationship between the girl she was educated with and her beau (ugh, can't remember the names)? That the beau was more interested in Jane than the other girl?

Uh, see what Liz wrote in message #220 in answer to my question #2 of message #219. :D

P.S. Have all the characters in this book driven you beserk yet? ;)

I'm moving this thread to page 6.

Follow me there! :)

The former Miss Campbell, now Mrs Dixon, and Mr Dixon.

And yes, see above. :)

#84 Madeline, I agree with you that all the surnames makes it harder to keep track of the characters. I have a really hard time keeping characters straight in my mind no matter what as soon as there are more than a handful of them, but have never bothered making a character list because I don't like interrupting my reading if I don't have to. So I go along with the story until there's a cue as to who the person they're speaking of actually is. I miss lots of bits here and there because of this, but to me it's a bit like missing parts of a conversation when one's mind wanders (which happens to me all the time), so isn't really all that bothersome.

#85 I loved that comment about Mansfield Park, because I had exactly the same experience with it, and experienced the fence scene exactly the same way! Of the three JAs I'd read until then (S&S and P&P being the other two), MP turned out to be my favourite. As I said in my review about that one "I know this novel isn't that popular among JA fans, most finding Fanny Price to be too much of a wallflower for a lead character. To me it seemed like she was on the contrary a young woman of conviction with a strong moral fiber who seemed to have more depth than the leading young women in the other two novels, which I found too frothy for my liking."

I really enjoyed Liz's comments and the whole discussion regarding how firstborn sons and younger brothers were addressed, as this was a source of confusion for me as well, and the ensuing conversation was quite fascinating too.

Was it in chapter 9 that the whole discussion about Mr Elton's charade came up? While I did enjoy it on the one hand and thought it quite amusing, it also drove me bonkers that it just seemed to go on and on and on forever! This is the type of thing that drives me nuts with JA sometimes. I do understand that she's writing about a world that is very limited in it's scope, but going on for what seems an entire chapter about such details, however important to the plot they may prove to be just seems much too tedious sometimes.

Another discussion I thought was fascinating was the one about old maids and the historical details supplied by Liz were most informative.

#134 I believe I'd hand the book to every prospective parent and say, "Here is the end result of letting a child think that everything she does is right without giving her a solid basis for making decisions."

I loved this comment. So so true. Emma reminds me of a friend I had and no longer frequent because she has a VERY (rightfully?) opinion of herself and only frequents a certain 'quality' of people. I've understandably fallen out of favour with my current lifestyle as an invalid. But the way Emma jumps to conclusions and makes assumptions is very typical of this kind of person who has never had the kinds of humbling life experiences to know any better.

I'm just starting chapter 12, so that's all my input for now!

> 252

Surnames

There are so many names and variations in names in this book that I forget who characters are even if I've been writing their names down all along. I guess I'd remember them better the more I reread the same book. :)

I'm quite surprised that I actually managed to keep track of who everyone is. Mind you, I've been paying very close attention to this one in hopes of appreciating it more, and so far it's working. It helps that I'm listening to the excellent audio version narrated by Juliet Stevenson who reads each character and gives all the right stresses and even hints at mind-set and double-speak.

I was thinking about these comments about the large number of names, because it seems to contradict what people (especially those who dislike Austen) often say about the narrow scope and limited range of people involved, compared to - for example - later 19th century novelists like Dickens with a vast cast of characters. I agree that even with a relatively smaller cast, the naming conventions don't help when you are not used to them, so there seem to be more characters than there really are.

But I also wondered whether the problem - for those who find the number of names overwhelming - is that within an Austen novel and its narrowly restricted world, we get to hear the name of practically every single person who the main characters might ever come across and mention. So as well as the main players, we also hear in passing the names of inkeepers, housekeepers, grooms and other servants, and the names of friends or relations who live elsewhere and who are visited or corresponded with. With novels set in a larger city and with protagonists who are active in a larger world of work and society, there is no way that every person in their world would be named because that really would be too much information!

It also reflects the reality of living where everyone knows everyone (and everyone's business).

Really, though, Austen and even Dickens have nothing on my favourite lower-tier writer of the time (a favourite of Austen's, too, as it happens), Catherine Cuthbertson, who wrote five-volume novels, over 2000 pages, filled with more places and people and titles than you can easily imagination, and seriously expected people to remember at pg 1800 someone mentioned once on pg 18. After a Cuthbertson novel, Austen is a doddle. :)

#256 the reality of living where everyone knows everyone (and everyone's business). You said much more succinctly exactly what I was trying to say!

Cuthbertson sounds a little over-the-top though!

I find her a lot of fun - if rather dizzying. :)

I don't think my (extremely) limited capacity for figuring out who's who would allow me to read Cuthbertson and actually enjoy her. Never mind that I'm daunted by anything over 400 pages!

Speaking of naming conventions that don't help when you are not used to them, how about 19th century Russian novels? Madeline, you ever tried those? The same person can go by 5 different appellations at LEAST! This is why I've been putting off War and Peace forever, because it's over 1000 pages and goodness only knows how many characters there are in it. Though I know I'll love it when I get to it.

Once you know the rules for Russian naming conventions, they're not so bad.

>259 Smiler69:

I remember reading Crime and Punishment when I was much younger. I don't remember *anything* about that book. I don't really enjoy reading very long novels with characters that I can't of whom I can't keep track from page to page - whether the reason for that is because their names keep changing or whether the reason is simply the multiplicity of characters. I'd really rather read a book that is not so much like work. I want to read for pleasure and for fun. My aging memory does not enjoy these other kinds of challenges. :)

My older son just started reading War and Peace. I think he's decided to give up while still in the first chapter. Since he got a Kindle, he has been downloading classics. He will not try Emma, though! :) He did just read The Count of Monte Cristo and enjoyed that book very, very much.

Since I don't do well remembering while reading, I don't do too well with myste, either, as I can't remember clues.

*sigh*

#259, #260 & #261 I did a tiny bit of Russian at university which helped a lot with the naming conventions. I did read Anna Karenina after that and loved it but for some reason I still feel like it's too soon to read War and Peace - I don't know why that book scares me so much!