Attention 75ers - input requested - tutored reads
Talk 75 Books Challenge for 2011
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1lyzard
Hello, all.
An idea has come up, which we hope for some feedback on - that of the "tutored read". This would involve 75ers with particular knowledge or expertise volunteering to help out other members who are interested in reading a particular book, but who are hesitant to undertake it because it seems daunting for a variety of reasons.
This idea has come up during the reading of a "classic" - Jane Austen's Emma - for which Madeline (SqueakyChu) has been posting questions on her thread about the meaning of particular 19th century expressions, social conventions that the novel takes for granted, and so on, which I and some others have been trying to answer, in order to make the book easier to understand.
Although this idea certainly does lend itself to classic novels, it needn't be restricted to them, but could apply to any work requiring specialised knowledge - history, religion, politics, regional concerns, and so on - or be a way for people to find help with books that are finding difficult for any reason.
Several people have suggested expanding from Madeline's experience to a group feature, so this post is to ask those people who might wish to participate in such a project - either as a tutor or a tutee - to respond here, so that we can judge the potential level of interest. If that was high, we could possibly make this an ongoing option for the 75ers, with threads posted to the wiki. The concept would differ from the group read in that everyone would be free to read entirely at their own pace, and join in just when they needed to; and that it could operate either with one person or a number.
If anyone has any other ideas about how this might work, please speak up.
An idea has come up, which we hope for some feedback on - that of the "tutored read". This would involve 75ers with particular knowledge or expertise volunteering to help out other members who are interested in reading a particular book, but who are hesitant to undertake it because it seems daunting for a variety of reasons.
This idea has come up during the reading of a "classic" - Jane Austen's Emma - for which Madeline (SqueakyChu) has been posting questions on her thread about the meaning of particular 19th century expressions, social conventions that the novel takes for granted, and so on, which I and some others have been trying to answer, in order to make the book easier to understand.
Although this idea certainly does lend itself to classic novels, it needn't be restricted to them, but could apply to any work requiring specialised knowledge - history, religion, politics, regional concerns, and so on - or be a way for people to find help with books that are finding difficult for any reason.
Several people have suggested expanding from Madeline's experience to a group feature, so this post is to ask those people who might wish to participate in such a project - either as a tutor or a tutee - to respond here, so that we can judge the potential level of interest. If that was high, we could possibly make this an ongoing option for the 75ers, with threads posted to the wiki. The concept would differ from the group read in that everyone would be free to read entirely at their own pace, and join in just when they needed to; and that it could operate either with one person or a number.
If anyone has any other ideas about how this might work, please speak up.
2ChelleBearss
I would be interested in participating. I know there are quite a few classics that are quite complicated and above my realm of knowledge.
I'm not 100% sure how the group reads work though.
I'm not 100% sure how the group reads work though.
3Morphidae
I would love to see more tutored reads. Books that are coming up for me that I might need help with:
Humboldt's Gift by Saul Bellow
A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole
Portrait of a Lady by Henry James
A Passage to India by E. M. Foster
A couple of Shakepeare's:
A Midsummer Night's Dream
Romeo and Juliet
Humboldt's Gift by Saul Bellow
A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole
Portrait of a Lady by Henry James
A Passage to India by E. M. Foster
A couple of Shakepeare's:
A Midsummer Night's Dream
Romeo and Juliet
4bakabaka84
Although I didn't do any of the group reads I think its a great idea and would probably get me to attempt to read some of my classics if there was an easy way to ask questions.
5norabelle414
>3 Morphidae: I'm more than happy to help with the Shakespeare.
6drneutron
I think it's a great idea, and would be happy to help with books involving math and physics, or other assorted science or technical content.
7ffortsa
I too would be happy to help with the Shakespeare, to the limits of my knowledge. I'd probably learn as much as I'd share.
If anyone is particularly adept at poetry, I wouldn't mind some help in that area myself.
If anyone is particularly adept at poetry, I wouldn't mind some help in that area myself.
8crazy4reading
I think it sounds like a very interesting idea. I always try just about anything and sometimes I can't grasp the idea or concept of the book.
9gennyt
Yes, it's a great idea! I might be able to offer some help with anyone attempting to read medieval or early modern stuff or that have arcane religious or British references!
And it would be good to have somewhere other than Google/Wikipedia to go for quick answers and help with (to me) obscure references in books set in cultures less familiar to me. To some extent many of us are doing this by posting questions on the threads of people we think might know the answer, but if there was a more organised way of getting a 'tutor' to help, that would be great.
Maybe if there was a general thread like this one, which those of us willing to participate had starred, then someone could post a message saying 'I'm reading X book at present and really struggling to understand Y & Z, is there anyone who would be willing to be my tutor?' - then if someone offered a separate thread might be started for the conversation to unfold...
And it would be good to have somewhere other than Google/Wikipedia to go for quick answers and help with (to me) obscure references in books set in cultures less familiar to me. To some extent many of us are doing this by posting questions on the threads of people we think might know the answer, but if there was a more organised way of getting a 'tutor' to help, that would be great.
Maybe if there was a general thread like this one, which those of us willing to participate had starred, then someone could post a message saying 'I'm reading X book at present and really struggling to understand Y & Z, is there anyone who would be willing to be my tutor?' - then if someone offered a separate thread might be started for the conversation to unfold...
10markon
I've been lurking on Madeline's thread and enjoying the conversation about Emma. I would love to have a tutor for Don Quioxte (I think there was a group read last year, but I wasn't ready).
I have some academic knowledge of Christian theology, if anyone is interested and we all work to keep the discussion civil.
I have some academic knowledge of Christian theology, if anyone is interested and we all work to keep the discussion civil.
11lahochstetler
I can help out with early American history, and would definitely need help with Shakespeare. I'm good with the historical elements of his plays, but terrible with the literary ones.
12DeltaQueen50
I think this is a great idea, having a place to post a question would really be helpful. And as gennyt says in #9 above, this would be a good place to make the connection with a tutor and then set up a separate thread if needed.
13souloftherose
I really, really like the idea of tutored reads. I've enjoyed lurking on Madeline's thread during her Emma read (and occasionally delurking).
I think we'd need a central thread and then maybe some reads could spin off into separate threads (if they're going to be as detailed as the Emma read) but perhaps ad-hoc questions wouldn't need to.
Perhaps there could also be a separate wiki page (like the TIOLI wiki) listing the requests for helps and offers so there's an easy way for people to see them once the main thread starts to get long?
I'd be happy to help tutor some 19th & early 20th century British fiction, maths, popular science, music and Christianity related questions although there are lots of people who have already posted in this thread who probably know more about most of those subjects than I do!
There are also lots of areas I'd appreciate help with. I've been wanting to try reading Anthony Trollope's Barchester Chronicles for a while. I tried The Warden several years ago but struggled with it a bit so if there are any Trollope fans/experts that would be willing to help me 'get' Trollope that would be fantastic.
The Trial by Kafka is another book I've been too scared to read for many years now.
And other translated classics like Les Miserables and Russian authors like Tolstoy and Dostoevsky.
I've also been meaning to try reading some 18th century British fiction which is not a time period I have a lot of knowledge of. I have The Mysteries of Udolpho out from the library which I'm going to try and read next month. I think Liz (lyzard) may have already offered to help me with some gothic fiction reading a while ago but that was before the discussion of tutored reads came up.
#3 Morphy, I could potentially help with The Portrait of a Lady or A Passage to India but I don't know either book very well. I know there was a group read of Portrait earlier this year so I'm happy for you to wait to see if someone more experienced comes along :-)
#10 I'd be interested in being tutored on Don Quixote too. I think last year's group read was of the original Spanish version but I would need to read a translation.
I think we'd need a central thread and then maybe some reads could spin off into separate threads (if they're going to be as detailed as the Emma read) but perhaps ad-hoc questions wouldn't need to.
Perhaps there could also be a separate wiki page (like the TIOLI wiki) listing the requests for helps and offers so there's an easy way for people to see them once the main thread starts to get long?
I'd be happy to help tutor some 19th & early 20th century British fiction, maths, popular science, music and Christianity related questions although there are lots of people who have already posted in this thread who probably know more about most of those subjects than I do!
There are also lots of areas I'd appreciate help with. I've been wanting to try reading Anthony Trollope's Barchester Chronicles for a while. I tried The Warden several years ago but struggled with it a bit so if there are any Trollope fans/experts that would be willing to help me 'get' Trollope that would be fantastic.
The Trial by Kafka is another book I've been too scared to read for many years now.
And other translated classics like Les Miserables and Russian authors like Tolstoy and Dostoevsky.
I've also been meaning to try reading some 18th century British fiction which is not a time period I have a lot of knowledge of. I have The Mysteries of Udolpho out from the library which I'm going to try and read next month. I think Liz (lyzard) may have already offered to help me with some gothic fiction reading a while ago but that was before the discussion of tutored reads came up.
#3 Morphy, I could potentially help with The Portrait of a Lady or A Passage to India but I don't know either book very well. I know there was a group read of Portrait earlier this year so I'm happy for you to wait to see if someone more experienced comes along :-)
#10 I'd be interested in being tutored on Don Quixote too. I think last year's group read was of the original Spanish version but I would need to read a translation.
14cyderry
Soul, I'm going to be trying the Barchester Chronicles next year too. Can we share a tutor?
American history is getting to be a passion of mine so I'll help if I can.
American history is getting to be a passion of mine so I'll help if I can.
15souloftherose
#14 Of course we can :-)
16lyzard
Volunteering to tutor Trollope!!!! :)
This is brilliant - thanks, everyone! I'm not quite sure at the moment of how this will be arranged, but most likely we have additions to the wiki that include a list of potential tutors and a "help needed" thread where people can hook up (if you'll pardon the expression). Tutoring sessions on a particular work could be their own thread, because in that way more people could join in as they felt like it, and the threads would always be available as a resource - whereas if the discussions were buried in people's individual threads they might be lost.
On an organisational front, I will talk more to Madeline and Jim about the practical side of setting this up and moderating it.
Please continue to list your areas of expertise here, and books you might like to be tutored in - it will be helpful when we're trying to get this started. And of course any suggestions for actually running the thing. :)
This is brilliant - thanks, everyone! I'm not quite sure at the moment of how this will be arranged, but most likely we have additions to the wiki that include a list of potential tutors and a "help needed" thread where people can hook up (if you'll pardon the expression). Tutoring sessions on a particular work could be their own thread, because in that way more people could join in as they felt like it, and the threads would always be available as a resource - whereas if the discussions were buried in people's individual threads they might be lost.
On an organisational front, I will talk more to Madeline and Jim about the practical side of setting this up and moderating it.
Please continue to list your areas of expertise here, and books you might like to be tutored in - it will be helpful when we're trying to get this started. And of course any suggestions for actually running the thing. :)
17cyderry
I think that once a match-up has been found, then the reader would contact when they're ready, by PM, letting the tutor know that the thread is setup and they are in need of help. From then on the conversation would all take place in the tutor thread for that book.
My question is, if we have separate threads for the tutoring, shouldn't there be a separate group for the threads to be collected in? Say for instance,if I were going to be reading Don Quixote in 2012, but there had been a tutored thread in 2009 with the group read in that year, all those questions and answers if the threads are also in the 2009 75 group, would be lost for future years. Whereas if we have a separate group for the tutored reads, if someone in 2013 looks there, they could get answers to questions already asked. Does that make sense?
So my suggestion is that the tutored threads be created in a new group for tutored reads.
My question is, if we have separate threads for the tutoring, shouldn't there be a separate group for the threads to be collected in? Say for instance,if I were going to be reading Don Quixote in 2012, but there had been a tutored thread in 2009 with the group read in that year, all those questions and answers if the threads are also in the 2009 75 group, would be lost for future years. Whereas if we have a separate group for the tutored reads, if someone in 2013 looks there, they could get answers to questions already asked. Does that make sense?
So my suggestion is that the tutored threads be created in a new group for tutored reads.
18lyzard
Oooh...that's a big question.
At the moment I would be inclined to restrict it to the 75ers, to see how it plays out - how big (or small) it ends up being, how easy it is to administer, what if any problems crop up, etc. It could have its own wiki where the threads are stored and rolled over.
But if it worked, there would certainly be the potential for taking it outside into its own group.
At the moment I would be inclined to restrict it to the 75ers, to see how it plays out - how big (or small) it ends up being, how easy it is to administer, what if any problems crop up, etc. It could have its own wiki where the threads are stored and rolled over.
But if it worked, there would certainly be the potential for taking it outside into its own group.
19bakabaka84
I'd also be willing to try and help on historical questions if I can. Although I'm sure there are people who are more experienced and qualified then I in this group. I could try and help with military, roman, early american, and some UK history with a pinch of Russian and Japanese history
20avatiakh
I've always had a hankering to try Godel, Escher, Bach an eternal golden braid but have been too nervous. I'd never suggest a group read because I'm so bad at them, but a tutor-assisted read sounds good so I can read at my own pace.
I could assist with a read of Keri Hulme's The Bone People or other literature with New Zealand and/or Maori content. I did a uni paper on the Treaty of Waitangi and lots of workshops on cultural awareness a few years back so feel ever so slightly qualified here.
I could assist with a read of Keri Hulme's The Bone People or other literature with New Zealand and/or Maori content. I did a uni paper on the Treaty of Waitangi and lots of workshops on cultural awareness a few years back so feel ever so slightly qualified here.
21kiwiflowa
I'm interested in tutored reads. Shakespeare in particular is daunting however when I did it at school (Macbeth and King Lear) I did understand what it was all about and still remember the plots etc. Hamlet is the one I've always wanted to read.
22Cynara
Cool idea, though I'm not sure how different it is from what we're doing already; anyone can start a thread on a book and god knows there are lots of us who love to hear ourselves type (me first and foremost) and have some expertise. :-)
23ffortsa
I've had the newest translation of Don Quixote on my bookshelf for a few years now - any company would be gratefully received, and tutored reads even more. As long as we take it slowly. it's pretty big.
24SqueakyChu
> 17, 18
shouldn't there be a separate group for the threads
I would be inclined to restrict it to the 75ers
I don't like the idea of a separate group for tutored reads. I'm stingy. I want to keep our treasures here within the 75-ers. Others can copy it if they'd like into their own groups. No harm done. Of course, it's Liz's say all the way! :D
Cheli, there is a way you can "mark" the book read on it's own thread. Go to the right hand column of an individual thread. Go down to the second block. There it says "About". Click on that and mark your book. That highlights that one book ***forever***.
I love contemporary Israeli fiction and would be delighted to tutor someone reading a modern Israeli novel. Or even anything with a Jewish theme if you are unfamiliar with my religion. In addition, I might be able to help with Hebrew or Yiddish words or phrases sprinkled throughout a book.
shouldn't there be a separate group for the threads
I would be inclined to restrict it to the 75ers
I don't like the idea of a separate group for tutored reads. I'm stingy. I want to keep our treasures here within the 75-ers. Others can copy it if they'd like into their own groups. No harm done. Of course, it's Liz's say all the way! :D
Cheli, there is a way you can "mark" the book read on it's own thread. Go to the right hand column of an individual thread. Go down to the second block. There it says "About". Click on that and mark your book. That highlights that one book ***forever***.
I love contemporary Israeli fiction and would be delighted to tutor someone reading a modern Israeli novel. Or even anything with a Jewish theme if you are unfamiliar with my religion. In addition, I might be able to help with Hebrew or Yiddish words or phrases sprinkled throughout a book.
25drneutron
Liz and I are working out a suggestion for incorporating this idea into the group structure. Once we work out a few details, we'll post the idea here for discussion. I think we can make this work out quite well!
26lyzard
With Jim's expert input, we are currently thinking of approaching this idea as follows:
- tutored reads will be a section on the 75 group wiki
- there will be a list of volunteer tutors, sorted by general area of expertise; people can add/remove themselves
- there will be a "help needed" thread where people wanting to read a particular work can ask for an available tutor; this way others thinking of reading the same work will be alerted
- each tutored read will have its own thread which will be listed on the wiki, similar to how group reads are currently listed
As a new feature, we will obviously "learn by doing" and we may find better ways of administering this activity. Please do continue to post alternative ideas, so that they can be considered.
- tutored reads will be a section on the 75 group wiki
- there will be a list of volunteer tutors, sorted by general area of expertise; people can add/remove themselves
- there will be a "help needed" thread where people wanting to read a particular work can ask for an available tutor; this way others thinking of reading the same work will be alerted
- each tutored read will have its own thread which will be listed on the wiki, similar to how group reads are currently listed
As a new feature, we will obviously "learn by doing" and we may find better ways of administering this activity. Please do continue to post alternative ideas, so that they can be considered.
27souloftherose
#16 Yay for a Trollope tutor :-)
#26 Sounds good to me.
#26 Sounds good to me.
28majkia
I'm a Trollopian but with no formal training, so I might have to hang out on that thread, now and again!
29cushlareads
Yay from me too for a Trollope tutor! I loved the Warden, but am sure I missed gallons of interesting things in it.
I can help a bit with economics, statistics or finance questions, as long as they are focused and don't turn into political slanging matches.
I can help a bit with economics, statistics or finance questions, as long as they are focused and don't turn into political slanging matches.
30qebo
6: Hmm, I'd be more inclined to tackle Brian Greene with company...
20: I wouldn't mind rereading Godel, Escher, Bach. I read it in the early 1980s. I'm not sure what I could provide in the way of expertise, but I'm a computer programmer and it's familiarish stuff within my comfort zone.
20: I wouldn't mind rereading Godel, Escher, Bach. I read it in the early 1980s. I'm not sure what I could provide in the way of expertise, but I'm a computer programmer and it's familiarish stuff within my comfort zone.
31avatiakh
qebo: thanks very much, dr neutron (Jim) has also offered to tutor my reading as he is also interested in rereading it, so all expertise is/will be welcome.
32souloftherose
I'd also be interested in a reread-along of Godel, Escher, Bach. I got about 2/3 of the way through a couple of years ago then got bogged down and gave up.
33Nickelini
I've really enjoyed the Emma read, and I'm interested in participating in these in the future. I have all sorts of areas I can help out on, but probably my most helpful area is Virginia Woolf.
I don't belong to this group--I just pop by to visit now and again--so if anyone needs Woolf help, send me a message on my profile page.
I don't belong to this group--I just pop by to visit now and again--so if anyone needs Woolf help, send me a message on my profile page.
34SqueakyChu
Joyce, why don't you join this group? You don't have to *do* anything (like read 75 books a year!), but you can participate in some of its fun features, like group reads and soon-to-come tutored reads!
35Nickelini
Madeline - Even when I did have a 75 books thread, I still didn't belong to this group. I read threads off the My Groups page, and because this group is so active, belonging to it renders that feature unusable. I've always been able to participate in anything that I wanted to . . . nobody asked for my membership card. ;-)
36SqueakyChu
nobody asked for my membership card
...until now.
Let me see your membership card! ;)
...until now.
Let me see your membership card! ;)
38SqueakyChu
LOL!!
39lyzard
Hey, I'm not just letting ANYONE into these tutored reads, you know!!
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Okay, that's a total lie...
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Okay, that's a total lie...
41Chatterbox
I could help out on the business/finance stuff; I'm also reasonably good with European history, and the WW1 era.
If I undertake some Murakami in the New Year, wouldn't mind some help with that. If I tackle the Isaacson bio of Steve Jobs, I'd definitely need some input on the technology elements.
If I undertake some Murakami in the New Year, wouldn't mind some help with that. If I tackle the Isaacson bio of Steve Jobs, I'd definitely need some input on the technology elements.
42Smiler69
I'm late to the party, but am definitely interested in tutored reads. I doubt I can offer much as far as tutoring goes... I know a little bit about a lot of things, but very little about any one particular thing. Other than graphic design and the mad world of magazine publishing maybe. I suppose I know more about mental illness and dysfunctional lives than the average person too, come to think of it, though I'm not sure what that says about me...
There are quite a few books that I'm afraid to tackle and would definitely consider reading with some help. I've seen Don Qixote mentioned here, and that is a book I'm unlikely to take on on my own. Another book I really want to read but am unlikely to pick up without help is Wolf Hall. I've got The Sound and the Fury and Light in August by Faulkner, but have heard he's a difficult author so often that those might languish on my shelves indefinitely without help.
I'll go through my collections and tag those books I'm more likely to read with some tutoring, but those are the ones that came to me off the top of my head.
No suggestions to offer right now, but I'll be looking on with great interest!
eta: There are a few Dickens books that I'd appreciate help with, such as A Tale of Two Cities, and I'm guessing Heather (souloftherose) is a go-to person when it comes to this author.
There are quite a few books that I'm afraid to tackle and would definitely consider reading with some help. I've seen Don Qixote mentioned here, and that is a book I'm unlikely to take on on my own. Another book I really want to read but am unlikely to pick up without help is Wolf Hall. I've got The Sound and the Fury and Light in August by Faulkner, but have heard he's a difficult author so often that those might languish on my shelves indefinitely without help.
I'll go through my collections and tag those books I'm more likely to read with some tutoring, but those are the ones that came to me off the top of my head.
No suggestions to offer right now, but I'll be looking on with great interest!
eta: There are a few Dickens books that I'd appreciate help with, such as A Tale of Two Cities, and I'm guessing Heather (souloftherose) is a go-to person when it comes to this author.
43souloftherose
#42 I think of myself more of as a Dickens enthusiast (or obsessive) than an expert but I'd be more than happy to grab a copy of a Dickens book and read along and try and answer questions. There are a couple of other people in the group I can think of who might be able to chip in with help if needed too.
44kiwiflowa
ooo yes Faulkner would be good for tutored reads.. I remember trying to reading Absalom, Absalom and felt like I was going around in circles.
45DeltaQueen50
#42 & 43 - Whenever you are planning on taking on Tale of Two Cities, please let me know. I have it on my Kindle and have tried to get into it a couple of times. It would be great to have some help with it.
46Smiler69
#43 Heather, I'd forgotten I'd posted about AToTC here and just did so on your own thread just now. No pressure or anything... ;-)
I'm sure as an enthusiast you already have many insights that someone like me, who's only read a couple of his books.
#45 I'd like to read it in 2012 preferably and would be happy to *share* Heather with you Judy!
I'm sure as an enthusiast you already have many insights that someone like me, who's only read a couple of his books.
#45 I'd like to read it in 2012 preferably and would be happy to *share* Heather with you Judy!
47Chatterbox
Ilana, I'd be happy to help with Wolf Hall, and maybe even do a group read early in the new year. I've been pondering re-reading it, and I'm pretty up to speed with the Tudors and "The King's Great Matter".
I'm not a Dickens expert, but again know a lot about the history of the era in which Tale of Two Cities is set, so I'd love to benefit from some Dickens expertise and contribute what I can on the historical background.
I'm not a Dickens expert, but again know a lot about the history of the era in which Tale of Two Cities is set, so I'd love to benefit from some Dickens expertise and contribute what I can on the historical background.
48norabelle414
I have Wolf Hall and A Tale of Two Cities on my TBR shelf, so I'm in for either of those.
49gennyt
I'd be willing to chip in and help answer questions with Wolf Hall too - I'm not an expert on the period but have good general knowledge of the political and religious issues of the day.
50cyderry
42 & 48 >>> the 12/12 group is doing a group read of Wolf Hall in June. maybe gennyt can help us all with the group read.
51gennyt
#50 Don't forget Suzanne (message #47)!
Not sure about a group read with a different group myself - and I'm bad at keeping up with group reads generally... the tutored read thing might work slightly differently I guess.
Not sure about a group read with a different group myself - and I'm bad at keeping up with group reads generally... the tutored read thing might work slightly differently I guess.
52cyderry
Suz, sorry I didn't mean to exclude you.
Genny I was just thinking that if we are all reading Wolf Hall at the same time (June as scheduled for the 12/12) then you could tutor us all with the answers.
Genny I was just thinking that if we are all reading Wolf Hall at the same time (June as scheduled for the 12/12) then you could tutor us all with the answers.
53SqueakyChu
> 51
Not sure about a group read with a different group myself - and I'm bad at keeping up with group reads generally
There is really a large difference between a "tutored read" and a group read. Let me see if I can explain it.
The one thing I like about being a "tutee" of a current "tutored read" is that *I* determine how quickly or slowly I read my chosen book. It's almost as if I've decided to do my own research on it but am limited by my understanding (or, in the case with Emma by Jane Austen, my appreciation) of it.
I am not influenced by the speed others read my same book. Others can chime in with interpretations and even ask questions on my thread, but the basic tutor-tutee relationship remains steadfast. I do think it's only fair to the tutor for the tutee to maintain an even flow (i.e. no large unexplained gaps of no reading, no speed reading) during the tutoring session. My session is now in its second month. I hope to finish my book within one to two weeks.
What do I think of my tutored read? I still dislike the book, but I *love* my tutored read! :)
This is such a nice way for those with more knowledge of a subject here on LT to share that knowledge with others who are eager and willing to learn. What a great thing!
Not sure about a group read with a different group myself - and I'm bad at keeping up with group reads generally
There is really a large difference between a "tutored read" and a group read. Let me see if I can explain it.
The one thing I like about being a "tutee" of a current "tutored read" is that *I* determine how quickly or slowly I read my chosen book. It's almost as if I've decided to do my own research on it but am limited by my understanding (or, in the case with Emma by Jane Austen, my appreciation) of it.
I am not influenced by the speed others read my same book. Others can chime in with interpretations and even ask questions on my thread, but the basic tutor-tutee relationship remains steadfast. I do think it's only fair to the tutor for the tutee to maintain an even flow (i.e. no large unexplained gaps of no reading, no speed reading) during the tutoring session. My session is now in its second month. I hope to finish my book within one to two weeks.
What do I think of my tutored read? I still dislike the book, but I *love* my tutored read! :)
This is such a nice way for those with more knowledge of a subject here on LT to share that knowledge with others who are eager and willing to learn. What a great thing!
54souloftherose
#45 & 46 Sounds good :-)
#47 Suzanne, your expertise about the French Revolution would definitely be welcome. And if I have any Dickens expertise to offer in return then you're more than welcome.
#47 Suzanne, your expertise about the French Revolution would definitely be welcome. And if I have any Dickens expertise to offer in return then you're more than welcome.
55SqueakyChu
> 9
And it would be good to have somewhere other than Google/Wikipedia to go for quick answers and help with (to me) obscure references in books set in cultures less familiar to me
It is really fun to get an answer about something obscure from a person with whom I can converse. It makes the process of reading a more difficult book much more of a pleasure.
And it would be good to have somewhere other than Google/Wikipedia to go for quick answers and help with (to me) obscure references in books set in cultures less familiar to me
It is really fun to get an answer about something obscure from a person with whom I can converse. It makes the process of reading a more difficult book much more of a pleasure.
56SqueakyChu
I'm also thinking that, by marking any tutored thread with "About", we would be creating a great reference for anyone who wants to tackle a particular book in the future - even without a tutor. Some LT members may be too shy to participate in a tutored read arrangement, but they might benefit from the detailed analysis of a tutored read thread anyway.
57SqueakyChu
*thinking about reading something by Thomas Hardy for my next tutored read*
58lyzard
>#57 Maybe I'll join in as a reader and sit there glowering and muttering while some poor soul tries to convince me I'm reading a great book... :)
59SqueakyChu
LOL! Oh, Liz!!
60Smiler69
#47 Suzanne, that would be great. I agree with Madeline about the difference between tutored reads and group reads, which isn't to say they can't happen within the same context.
I did bring up the question on Madeline's thread of what happens when there are several tutees on any given book and they are at different reading speeds (which will probably happen A LOT)... something to think about.
I did bring up the question on Madeline's thread of what happens when there are several tutees on any given book and they are at different reading speeds (which will probably happen A LOT)... something to think about.
61lyzard
It may well happen; but it may also happen that the different tutees will be reading at different times as well as different speeds, as there is no compulsion to begin at any particular time (as opposed to group reads).
On the other hand, I can certainly envisage several people being encouraged to start a book at the same time, but then going forward at different paces. In that case, we might break the tutorial up into different sections by chapter group, as people do for their group reads, so people can continue at their own pace and not have to worry so much about spoilers.
To make this work, we would need "tutored read" threads, rather than people being tutored on their own thread.
On the other hand, I can certainly envisage several people being encouraged to start a book at the same time, but then going forward at different paces. In that case, we might break the tutorial up into different sections by chapter group, as people do for their group reads, so people can continue at their own pace and not have to worry so much about spoilers.
To make this work, we would need "tutored read" threads, rather than people being tutored on their own thread.
62Chatterbox
I'm going to be reading a newish bio of Thomas Cromwell in the next month or two, so that will help if anyone is interested in forging ahead with a tutored read of Wolf Hall.
64Chatterbox
It's the Robert Hutchinson one. There are relatively few bios of him out there, it seems, and while this doesn't focus as much on what interests me -- the shifting pattern of who became trusted advisors under the Tudors -- they relied heavily on "the new men", with folks like Wolsey, Cromwell coming from v. humble beginnings and even More being a lowly, albeit scholarly, lawyer). Henry VII's two trusted advisors, Empson and Dudley (the latter being the father of the infamous Dudley, he of Jane Grey's promotion to queen) were ordinary but well-educated clerks. Henry VIII's closest friend, Charles Brandon, was just the son of a string of knights; his father had been a standard-bearer at Bosworth. I'd love to see something written about this -- all the Tudors felt threatened by the surviving Plantagenets, and I wonder if they felt that the "old" nobility looked down on them as parvenus with only a thread of a right to the throne. That might help explain this phenomenon. Or was it simply that the world was changing, but the nobility weren't changing rapidly enough with it? It wasn't just about being a fearless battlefield warrior any longer. Curiously, some of these figures then set up dynasties of their own. The Greys, the Seymours, the Careys, etc. all set up dynasties that endure (if not under the same names) today.
65SqueakyChu
I caved and bought Jude the Obscure by Thomas Hardy. Once the tutored reads begin officially, I'd love to seek the assistance of a tutor for that book.
66SqueakyChu
The more I think about "tutored reads", the more brilliant I think this idea is. I'm not sure that anyone other than LT is doing this (unless someone is already copying our idea).
I've often simply thought of not reading any book which I had felt was too challenging in lieu of reading something lighter and maybe more fun or "breezier". If I knew ahead of time that I had a tutor who was going to instill knowledge into me and love for a certain kind of literature that I thought I disliked, I might be more willing to tackle some of those books I now cast aside with no second thought because they look like too much "work".
As an aside, lyzard has been tutoring me through Jane Austen's Emma, and I can actually see myself attempting to read antoher Jane Austen sometime in the future (not too soon, though!). :)
I've often simply thought of not reading any book which I had felt was too challenging in lieu of reading something lighter and maybe more fun or "breezier". If I knew ahead of time that I had a tutor who was going to instill knowledge into me and love for a certain kind of literature that I thought I disliked, I might be more willing to tackle some of those books I now cast aside with no second thought because they look like too much "work".
As an aside, lyzard has been tutoring me through Jane Austen's Emma, and I can actually see myself attempting to read antoher Jane Austen sometime in the future (not too soon, though!). :)
67Carmenere
#65 Oooo, Jude the Obscure! I read it last year and after a slow start, I really enjoyed it. I would certainly look into a tutored read to see what I had missed.
68SqueakyChu
> 67
Lynda, I'll probably hold off on Jude the Obscure until the "tutored reads" program gets off to a start in the new year. It might be fun to do this one together, although, judging from my reading of Emma, I tend to read these kinds of books very s-l-o-w-l-y. It took me about 6 weeks or so to read and finally finish Emma.
Lynda, I'll probably hold off on Jude the Obscure until the "tutored reads" program gets off to a start in the new year. It might be fun to do this one together, although, judging from my reading of Emma, I tend to read these kinds of books very s-l-o-w-l-y. It took me about 6 weeks or so to read and finally finish Emma.
69norabelle414
I will totally read Jude the Obscure very, very slowly with you :-)
70Smiler69
I've been meaning to come back and comment here for a good while now.
Suzanne and Genny, I'm definitely interested in reading Wolf Hall in 2012. And definitely need help with it. Maybe we can even get Madeline to pick it up since she's so good with breaking down a book and asking lots of great questions...
Suzanne and Genny, I'm definitely interested in reading Wolf Hall in 2012. And definitely need help with it. Maybe we can even get Madeline to pick it up since she's so good with breaking down a book and asking lots of great questions...
71SqueakyChu
Maybe we can even get Madeline to pick it up
LOL! Not a chance. I have too many other books on my agenda. You'll have to work up your own cynicism and your own questions. :D
LOL! Not a chance. I have too many other books on my agenda. You'll have to work up your own cynicism and your own questions. :D
72SqueakyChu
> 69
er, very, very, very slowly! :)
er, very, very, very slowly! :)
73SqueakyChu
> 70
Ilana, wouldn't it be fun to be co-tutors (although I don't know how success ful that would be) for someone reading a book about Israeli culture? Just a thought...
Ilana, wouldn't it be fun to be co-tutors (although I don't know how success ful that would be) for someone reading a book about Israeli culture? Just a thought...
74Chatterbox
Why don't we think about Wolf Hall for February and continue however long it takes? I think the second book comes out in the fall of next year, so we could even bump it a bit later if people want to move straight from one to the next, or at least have only a short gap between them. I'd imagine we could cover most of the issues likely to arise in the sequel as part of the tutoring on book #1, as the historical backdrop is clear/known and what will be interesting is how Mantel portrays it.
75Smiler69
#73 In principle, yes, it might be fun, except for the fact that my knowledge of Israeli culture dates from nearly 30 years ago and ended when I was around 13 years old... so I'm not sure how factual my information and childhood impressions would be.
#74 Wolf Hall in Febrary could work. I'm so intimidated by that book that the first though I had was "but must we start with that one so early in the year?" It really was not fun at all for me the first time around. We'll have to figure out the mechanics of how we'll go about it, but we still have plenty of time for that.
#74 Wolf Hall in Febrary could work. I'm so intimidated by that book that the first though I had was "but must we start with that one so early in the year?" It really was not fun at all for me the first time around. We'll have to figure out the mechanics of how we'll go about it, but we still have plenty of time for that.
76LovingLit
I have only just discovered and read this entire thread (even though I was pointed towards it a while ago when discussing Dickens on Heather's thread)....it looks like it's coming along nicely (I love this group).
I'm hoping to read 10 classics next year and would benefit from tutoring on any of them I reckon.
>20 avatiakh: The Bone People is on my list, I'd get most of the NZ idioms but you could help with some other angles Im sure.
So on my list is:
Sons and Lovers DH Lawrence
Tale of Two Cities Dickens
Great Expectations Dickens
Crime and Punishment Dostoevsky
Libra Don DeLillo
The Turn of the Screw Henry James
Call it Sleep Henry Roth
The Bone People Keri Hulme
Midnights Children Salman Rushdie
One Hundred Years of Solitude Gabriel Garcia Marquez
(Edited for funny touchstones)
I'm hoping to read 10 classics next year and would benefit from tutoring on any of them I reckon.
>20 avatiakh: The Bone People is on my list, I'd get most of the NZ idioms but you could help with some other angles Im sure.
So on my list is:
Sons and Lovers DH Lawrence
Tale of Two Cities Dickens
Great Expectations Dickens
Crime and Punishment Dostoevsky
Libra Don DeLillo
The Turn of the Screw Henry James
Call it Sleep Henry Roth
The Bone People Keri Hulme
Midnights Children Salman Rushdie
One Hundred Years of Solitude Gabriel Garcia Marquez
(Edited for funny touchstones)
77gennyt
I guess February would be possible for Wolf Hall. I thought the sequel was due out in May (maybe it's different times in UK and US?). I don't know how it would work having two tutors simultaneously. Maybe it's a matter of seeing what kind of questions you are asking, Ilana, and either of us chipping in with answers to the best of our ability.
I really don't see myself as an expert (the last time I studied the period in detail was for A level at school, though I've touched on aspects of the religious questions in particular on and off since then), but there is probably stuff that I take for granted which might be far from obvious to someone with different emphases in their general education and subsequent reading.
I really don't see myself as an expert (the last time I studied the period in detail was for A level at school, though I've touched on aspects of the religious questions in particular on and off since then), but there is probably stuff that I take for granted which might be far from obvious to someone with different emphases in their general education and subsequent reading.
78SqueakyChu
In passing, I mentioned more than one tutor at the same time, but, truthfully, I think the best way for a tutored read to work would be one-on-one. Simply put: onr tutor to one tutee.
In the case that a tutor might need some additional knowledge, that would be a great opportunity for the tutor to do some research and then pass any new knowledge on to his/her tutee as well.
In the case that a tutor might need some additional knowledge, that would be a great opportunity for the tutor to do some research and then pass any new knowledge on to his/her tutee as well.
79Chatterbox
What about creating a tutee-specific thread, about a specific book? If both Genny and I can chip in to address questions, or to address issues from different perspectives (Genny, I'm sure, knows more about the details of the religious schism that followed that little Boleyn affaire than I; I may be more knowledgeable when it comes to some of the history/context/dates, issues such as the Tudors being uneasy on their throne after Bosworth, etc.), then we can do so. And others could follow along and read about it. Obviously, it would start whenever the tutee wanted -- they should determine the timing of this, also the pace. (in contrast to a group read, where the pace is scheduled). Just a suggestion, but this may open it up a bit so that others who might want to learn but perhaps aren't invested enough to think about requesting a "tutored read" could tune in from time to time, and it means it's flexible to include different people. For instance, if I read Tolstoy, I know it would be helpful to have someone clue me in on the literary context, but also on how Tolstoy forged new ground and the philosophical environment that spawned him; how he was similar to and different from other "great Russians". That input might well come best from one person in one case, but somebody different when it comes to another piece of info.
Genny, Wolf Hall did come out a few months earlier in the UK, so it may well be the same for the sequel. And I def. agree about what each of us take for granted individually. I grew up in England, I was fascinated with history and particularly this period, and have read about it ever since. I was astonished when I went to a production of Schiller's Mary Stuart on Broadway a few years ago and someone sitting next to me thought that Mary was Elizabeth's sister (i.e. Mary Tudor). But then, why should someone be familiar with the relationships of a British royal family in the 16th century??
Genny, Wolf Hall did come out a few months earlier in the UK, so it may well be the same for the sequel. And I def. agree about what each of us take for granted individually. I grew up in England, I was fascinated with history and particularly this period, and have read about it ever since. I was astonished when I went to a production of Schiller's Mary Stuart on Broadway a few years ago and someone sitting next to me thought that Mary was Elizabeth's sister (i.e. Mary Tudor). But then, why should someone be familiar with the relationships of a British royal family in the 16th century??
80Morphidae
Below is a more likely list of the books I'd want a tutored read for in 2012 as the thought of reading them makes me nervous.
Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
Humboldt's Gift by Saul Bellow
The Portrait of a Lady by Henry James
Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
Humboldt's Gift by Saul Bellow
The Portrait of a Lady by Henry James
82drneutron
You haven't missed them. We're going to implement in 2012. We'll use a combination of wiki and threads to advertise those willing to tutor and to be tutored, but will leave implementation of the actual tutoring up to the individuals. Stay tuned for 2012!
83Matke
This is an exciting and helpful idea. I've followed a bit of the Emma tutorial on Madeline's thread and saw the great potential.
I'd be interested in both Wolf Hall and especially Don Quixote, a book that just scares me.
>80 Morphidae:: Morphy, I find Bellow a bit intimidating, but the James book is surprisingly easy to read (well, he does have that reputation...). Atlas Shrugged is truly a case unto itself.
I'm really looking forward to 2012 in the 75ers group.
I'd be interested in both Wolf Hall and especially Don Quixote, a book that just scares me.
>80 Morphidae:: Morphy, I find Bellow a bit intimidating, but the James book is surprisingly easy to read (well, he does have that reputation...). Atlas Shrugged is truly a case unto itself.
I'm really looking forward to 2012 in the 75ers group.
84Fourpawz2
Maybe this tutor/tutee business will make me brave enough to tackle poetry. I've been thinking seriously about trying a little Emily Dickinson providing there is a tutor out there for me ...
85Nickelini
I'm available to help with Henry James if someone is reading early or mid-career James. Portrait of a Lady is long, but not difficult at all. But when it comes to late-career James (Wings of the Dove, The Ambassadors, The Golden Bowl), then I'll be looking for a tutor.
86rosalita
Joyce, I'm definitely interested in availing myself of your Henry James tutelage. He's on my 2012 list to finally tackle.
87Cynara
Hmmm. What would the qualifications of a good tutor be? Obviously, you'd have read the book before and feel comfortable with it. What beyond that?
Level 1: I'm an English teacher, which gives me a mild expertise on texts in general.
Level 2: I love poetry, and have studied a fair amount, which helps with that.
Level 3: I also have particular interests in certain periods of writing or history and in certain countries (19th century England! Canada! etc.)
Level 4: Then there are the few authors whose biographies I've read, whose letters I covet, and most of whose work I've read. I'm familiar with their lives and times, to some extent. These are the authors I might be able to teach a course on, with a bit of prep - Alexander Pope, Jane Austen, W. H. Auden, Shakespeare, etc.
What level are we looking for?
Level 1: I'm an English teacher, which gives me a mild expertise on texts in general.
Level 2: I love poetry, and have studied a fair amount, which helps with that.
Level 3: I also have particular interests in certain periods of writing or history and in certain countries (19th century England! Canada! etc.)
Level 4: Then there are the few authors whose biographies I've read, whose letters I covet, and most of whose work I've read. I'm familiar with their lives and times, to some extent. These are the authors I might be able to teach a course on, with a bit of prep - Alexander Pope, Jane Austen, W. H. Auden, Shakespeare, etc.
What level are we looking for?
88snarkhunting
I noticed several people here expressed interest in reading (or rereading) Godel, Escher, Bach. I'm not sure how helpful these links will be, but they might be worth checking out:
MIT OpenCourseWare (Undergrad): Gödel, Escher, Bach
MIT OpenCourseWare (High School): Gödel, Escher, Bach: A Mental Space Odyssey
MIT OpenCourseWare (Undergrad): Gödel, Escher, Bach
MIT OpenCourseWare (High School): Gödel, Escher, Bach: A Mental Space Odyssey

