Experts, Please Share - Heritage Press: History, Quality, Collectibility

Ok, I am sure this has been covered before, but I was unable to find the posts in a relatively extensive search this morning.

I am seeking insight on Heritage Press from the knowledgeable and friendly folks who frequent this group. I have read the Wikipedia entry (not at all helpful) as well as the BookThink entry for Heritage Press Retrospective and it has left me more confused than ever. I know the basics, that Heritage was an everyman version of George Macy's Limited Editions Club, was issued with Slipcases and Sandglasses and was sold off in the late 60s or early 70s, and was ultimately acquired by MBI who reproduced many of the works as leather-bound Easton Press editions.

What I am wondering is how the various incarnations of Heritage Press are regarded in terms of quality. I assume the best quality was what was produced while Macy himself was still alive, between 1935 and 1956. I am still a bit confused as to the difference between the Heritage Club and the Heritage Press (my only understanding of the distinction between the two being that the Club was subscription based and the press was sold through stores). But are there any physical differences in the books themselves? Are the title lists identical? What do we think about the later Heritage publications and reprints once the Macy family started selling the rights in the late 60s?

I guess my question really comes down to this: if there are multiple Heritage Press printings of the same title, which version should a collector seek out? Are there any iterations to be avoided?

I have always been rather easily confused by the history of Heritage, though I am quite pleased with the handful of books that are sprinkled through my much larger collection of Easton Press, Folio Society and Franklin Library. I am hoping to fully understand this in detail once and for all.

Also, what is the secret decoder ring key to solving the Sandglass references. For example, the Heritage Club Sandglass posted on Wildcat's imagery site depicts the newsletter for Four Plays by Christopher Marlowe. The Sandglass has Number VII: 32 written in the upper left hand corner. What does this mean?

Finally, I understand that Heritage Press publications have been attributed to multiple cities on their title pages, including New York City, Del Mar (CA), and Avon / Westport / Norwalk (CT). Are publication from one city consider better than another?

I realize these are a lot of quesitons. I am willing to read and learn so if it is easier to direct me via link to some other place where all this detail is outlined, fine by me. Thanks in advance for your assistance in bringing me up to speed.

I wish I had time to address these now, but I don't. If nobody else has beaten me to it by the time I get back from work, I'll answer a few of them.

I appreciate that and no worries, it is obviously not urgent!

"What I am wondering is how the various incarnations of Heritage Press are regarded in terms of quality."

Okay, let's begin here. Quality definitely was at its highest under Macy's reign, but they maintained a fairly high standard under Helen Macy's tenure, as well. I don't have enough books from Jonathan's era to really say. After the Heritage Press was sold off, the past books took a nosedive in general in quality. Ones printed by Cardevon of Cardevon LEC's were better, but anything from the Macy's seems to have become muddier.

"I guess my question really comes down to this: if there are multiple Heritage Press printings of the same title, which version should a collector seek out? Are there any iterations to be avoided?"

New York editions are best. It's the easiest way to identify HP titles beyond familiarity. On the title page, look for New York under 'The Heritage Press'. If it's from the Cardevon period, it'll read Avon or Norwalk, Connecticut (or occasionally nothing at all). Connecticut-era books should generally be avoided unless there is no earlier alternative (i.e. Russian Folk Tales...which is a very lovely Connecticut-era book, might I say).

"Also, what is the secret decoder ring key to solving the Sandglass references. For example, the Heritage Club Sandglass posted on Wildcat's imagery site depicts the newsletter for Four Plays by Christopher Marlowe. The Sandglass has Number VII: 32 written in the upper left hand corner. What does this mean?"

I don't know that one - it seems random to me. :p I'm sure Django would know.

"Finally, I understand that Heritage Press publications have been attributed to multiple cities on their title pages, including New York City, Del Mar (CA), and Avon / Westport / Norwalk (CT). Are publication from one city consider better than another?"

As I said above, New York is best. That's when the Macys were in charge, and the quality is much higher on those books.

Please feel free to ask more questions - I like answering them.

I have a question for somebody else to answer, actually - when was the Del Mar, California period of the Press/Club, and who ran it then? I've only seen a few of these, but I've always wondered how the Club ended up in California for a spell.

Thanks for the response. Do you happen to know the dates that correspond to the NY period and the Connecticut period? Why were there three different CT cities used? Are books from the CT period just reprints of the earlier Macy era or were new titles added?

Are there any differences between the Heritage Press books and the Heritage Club books?

1) The New York period was basically under the Macy's watch, so it began in 1935 and lasted until around 1970. It gets a little confusing from 1968 through 1970 because of the transition, and there are Connecticut books that date in 1968, say, and New York books that date 1970. I hope someone else can elaborate on that more. I do not know where the California period falls, alas, but I do know that the Connecticut period begins around 1970, lasting until the demise of the Heritage Press in the mid 1980's (although it does occasionally get revived for one reason or another that's beyond my knowledge). I do not know why there are different cities from the Connecticut period, but I can surmise that it was one of the moves that occurred in the 1970's. The Press bounced from several houses in the '70's before settling with the Danbury Mint, but the exact locations of many of those houses is unknown to me at present. And lastly with this question, both Macy-era books and reprints of the Cardevon LEC's, with the occasional unique title, were printed in the Connecticut era. I do not have a definitive list of Connecticut's Heritage Press output, but I do have an Exclusives list on my blog that's fairly useful for HP collectors to examine:

http://georgemacyimagery.wordpress.com/heritage-press-exclusives/

I intend on getting years attached to the HP exclusives as I gather them up myself.

2) I think I've only owned one Heritage Club book in my time collecting them, and I don't remember what it was at the moment. You'll have to wait for someone else to reply to that inquiry.

Here is one that certainly is collectible!

Just published a look at the Heritage Press Song of Songs Which is Solomon's from 1935, on Books and Vines.

http://booksandvines.com/2012/01/15/the-song-of-songs-which-is-solomons-illustra...

or

http://booksandvines.com

I belonged to the Heritage Club from 1961 until late 1970. From 1965 until 1970 I was simultaneously a member of the Limited Editions Club. Of course during these dates, I didn't pay as much attention to the quality of both clubs as I should have since I was going through a divorce at the time. But overall, the LECs maintained a certain quality level which did actually increase after Shiff took over the LEC. I believe the Shiff era began in the Club's 44th or 45th series.

The quality of the Heritage Club editions suffered greatly in 1968 through 1970. The noticeable thing was the spines stopped being stamped and were printed as silk screens. The spines were very poorly printed, sometimes with multiple scratchings being present. Writing the Club availed no relief as letters went unanswred. I had paid in advance for my HC membership, but as soon as the membership ran out I didn't renew because of the poor quality of the bindings. I still have some of these poorly silk screened books. Only the spines were affected with the insides being Fine.

I don't believe there is any difference between The Heritage Press and The Heritage Club. All books were printed by the Heritage Press, George Macy's printing facility. All of my Herige Club books bear no mention of the Heritage Club except on the Sandglass.

The LEC and the HC had offices at 595 Madison Avenue, near where the Shiff offices are. The different cities represent where new owners operated from; ie, Avon, CT; Del Mar , CA etc. All of my HC books bear the New York address even though the corporate headquarters changed. The different owners may have continued using the Macy Heritage Press facility.

To sum up, the Heritage Press printed for the subscription only Heritage Club and also for retail book stores so there is no difference in quality there. As the Heritage Club wended its way to disolution, there were defintely some problems encountered, not so much in the printing, but in the cover printing (or silk screening). I have some very nice books from that period such as Mann's The Magic Mountain, but I also received some books that were pretty badly defaced on the spine (The Confessions of St Augistine for one).

The older HCs or HPs are probably the best to collect (1935 to 1955) which were published in George Macy's lifetime. But some of the newer ones are fine also. You can't tell which books are better by year or where the corporate headquarters was. You just have to look at each edition or picture of that edition before buying.

Exchanged a note or two with Carol Grossman, who is writing a book on the LEC...

Macy came out with the Heritage Press first, publishing original books under that imprint in 1935. That continued until the early 40's, when he switched to using Heritage as a reprint operation. But he
still occasionally came out with an original Heritage. So there are 80 to 100
(I'm guessing) original Heritage books that weren't first issued as LECs. One
thing with Heritage is that books got reissued multiple times. For example, the
copy of Song of Songs you have is a later reprint. The first ones were bound in
red leather with the same pattern embossed in the leather. A couple of years
later he started the Heritage Club which was another subscription series
operation.

I know Carol, and have bought LECs from her. She's been writing the LEC history for some time. Her collection of LECs used to encompass all published editions. She published a fairly large LEC caalog a few years ago so she may have sold several LECs from her collection. One thing about her collection is that she had all of the later Shiff books from about1990 on. The LECs published in these years went for about $5000 per book, but I don't know if this included any artist's portfolios.

For the history of the LEC, Carol is extremely knowledgable. For what a given LEC is worth, the best bet is to contact Bill Majure. When it comes to LEC prices, he is the most knowledgable. Much more so than large booksellers like Charles Agvent, most of whose LECs are overpriced. With his pricing structure, he can well afford to discount LT members 10% ..... or more.

Sid had told me time and again that this woman would be calling to interview me for her book but to my knowledge she never did.

9-10: interesting! I wonder what publisher she will use to publish her history of the LEC? Personally, I think the way to do justice to such an endeavour would be to publish it letterpress :)

> 8, 9
Thank you for the feedback, particularly Leccol's words about the distinction or lack thereof between Heritage Club and Heritage Press which has always confused me. So the Heritage Press books sold through retail stores still must have contained a Sandglass (that says Heritage Club on it)?

I will try to avoid HP books after 1968 unless there is a particularly compelling one (such as Russian Folk Tales, 1970).

> 9
Busywine, you have hit the nail on the head in my frustration in trying to get my arms around collecting Heritage Press titles. There were in fact so many reprints (sometimes two or more with different illustrators?) that I have a hard time knowing which version to target.

I've been very busy lately and only just came to this thread, but I would like to add some information and some speculation.

>" Four Plays by Christopher Marlowe. The Sandglass has Number VII: 32 written in the upper left hand corner. What does this mean?"

The Heritage Press were issued in series, each year was designated by a series letter--the first few years used letters--or series number. The volumes were issued one month at a time, usually, and the Sandglass number refers to the appearance of each volume in the series; thus VII: 32 would mean that the Marlowe volume was the seventh book issued during the thirty-second series, which ran June, 1967 through May 1968.

>"Do you happen to know the dates that correspond to the NY period and the Connecticut period?"

The Heritage Press had their headquarters in New York, and the books bearing that city were published from November, 1935 until 1968. But books were issued by the Heritage Club featuring "Heritage Press, NY" on the title page until 1971 (probably leftover stock). The first Norwalk,CT book The Discourse of Epictetus was issued as the 9th book of the 32nd series, and there apparently were other copies of Epictetus with the same series number with "NY" on the title page. Over the next few years the appearance of Heritage books with either "NY" or "Norwalk, CT" can be found, or sometimes a NY book with a Norwalk Sandglass. To further complicate the matter, in Series 35 1970-1971 The Pilot comes in both NY and CT favors, but some have Del Mar, CA Sandglasses. The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, The Poems of Robert Browning and Daisy Miller are all "Heritage Press, NY" with Del Mar Sandglasses from that 35th series. In the 36th Series, 1971-1972, all the title pages say "Heritage Press, NY" but the first 9 books of the series have Del Mar Sandglasses and the remaining are all "Avon, CT." With a few exceptions, all books from the 37th series through the 40th series (through May 1976) feature Avon on the title pages. One exception is The Call of the Wild, the 9th book of the 40th series, which features Westport, CT. From the 41st through the 47th (and last) series, May, 1983, the title page features Norwalk, CT.

This gallimaufry of locations on title pages and Sandglasses from the post-Macy period reflects where the corporate headquarters were located, which is reflected in the Sandglass only until all leftover stock of books and unbound pages from the NY period was depleted.

>"Are there any differences between the Heritage Press books and the Heritage Club books?"

I'm on speculative ground here, but based on what I have in my collection I believe that all books that have "Heritage Club" on their title pages were those Heritage originals (not reproductions of LEC originals), that were issued during the first three series of Heritage books: Series A through Series C, June, 1937--May, 1940. Thus I have in my collection books marked "For Members of the Heritage Club"-- from 1938 Penguin Island and The Compleat Angler, from 1939 The Vicar of Wakefield and Idylls of the King. In over several decades of searching for and owning Heritage books, these are the only ones I have encountered so marked. After Series C, it's my belief that all books were simply marked "Heritage Press." Because of this, I think books so marked are probably somewhat rarer, though I have a copy of the early Penguin Island marked simply "Heritage Press" which other than the title page, is identical.

(I must add that for the bulk of this information, I'm indebted to Michael Bussacco's Heritage Press Catalog and Checklist, which no serious HP collector should be without.)

>15 Django6924: I'm still confused about the Sandglass code. My HP Tom Sawyer was published in 1936. The Sandglass code is III:34R. It can't be the 34th series in 1936 and what is the 'R' all about?

>13 UK_History_Fan: Interestingly, my youngest HP book was published in 1967.

>16 kdweber:

Ken, either your copy had a later Sandglass placed in it, or it is not one of the original 1936 copies of the book. In fact, The Adventures of Tom Sawyer was the third book issued in the 34th series, August, 1969, after Cape Cod and The Satyricon. The "R" probably means "Reissue." The original 1936 issue had the stamping in brown--not gold as on my copy--and the page tops stained orange red.

> 15
Thank you so much for your post, you are a wealth of information! Not to mention on the off chance that you do not have any heirs, I will be glad to play caretaker over your book collection in the untimely event that you cease to cohabitate with us in this world.

I think you are the first person with the Sandglass secret decoder ring. It does make sense now.

I have been on the fence about purchasing Michael Bussacco's books, since my current Heritage collection is quite small and I already own so many titles in the EP version (not having learned until recently that often when the EP and HP books have the same internals, the printing quality in the Heritage is usually superior). And I am a sucker for leather bindings....

> 17
I swear my Satyricon is from 1964 (per my database, not at home at the moment to verify). I sincerely doubt they would have reissued it so soon, so my date must be wrong. But this is just one of the many mysteries of Heritage Press.

>19 UK_History_Fan:

The 1964 date is the copyright date of the LEC original. Virtually all Heritage reprints of LEC originals use as copyright date the LEC copyright. Sometimes when the copyright has had to have been renewed, the date is the renewal date. As in the case of kdweber's 1936 The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, when the book was a Heritage original, the date is the date of the original Heritage copyright. (The LEC did a Tom Sawyer in 1939 with illustrations by T.H. Benton, but the Heritage 1936 was an original publication with commissioned illustrations by Norman Rockwell, and this version was never an LEC.) Thus even my copy of the Heritage Tom Sawyer I got new from the Club (in Norwalk) in the early 80s has the 1936 copyright date.

>17 Django6924: Robert, thanks, as always, for sharing your knowledge.

> 20
Yes, thank you, that certainly clears it up. I did get home and confirm the 1964 copyright date, but it tellingly says copyright 1964 The George Macy Companies (and not merely Heritage Press). Indeed my Sandglass does state II: 34 which would agree with Django6924's reporting that Satyricon was the second in that year's series! I am so happy to know what all this means now! Thanks!

BTW, does anyone (especially WildcatJF, Django6924, or busywine) happen to own BOTH the Heritage Press version AND the Limited Edition Club version of Saint-Simon The Memoirs of Louis de Rouvroy Duc De Saint-Simon Covering The Years 1691-1723? I already have the Heritage Press edition which I fortunately picked up rather cheaply. My question, given that the binding of the LEC doesn't seem all that special or different compared to the HP, is would it be worthwhile to pursue an "upgrade" to the LEC copy? I assume the artwork is more colorful in the LEC (though it is still quite impressive in my Heritage). Also, I further assume that the LEC is merely a two-volume version of the one-volume Heritage with the exact same pagination and internal layout? The last thing my bookshelves need is more duplicates, but I really want a nice copy of this title (of which the HP qualifies) and am willing to spend the extra on an LEC but only if there is enough distinction/improvement to merit it.

Thoughts, comments or comparisons?

>23 UK_History_Fan:, I do not have the LEC, but my local book store does. If someone else is not able to answer, I will give it a look and take some pictures this weekend to get to you.

I have the LEC, and while it is a very classy production, I have seen the Heritage Press edition and would apply your assessment "the binding of the LEC doesn't seem all that special or different compared to the HP" to the whole production. I have examined a Heritage Press copy closely, and see no difference quality-wise in the reproduction of the illustrations, and the print work is equally fine. The major advantage of the LEC is that two smaller volumes are easier to read in bed than one larger volume.

My personal feeling is that unless you find an LEC in Fine condition at a rather cheap price, you'd be happier saving your money for a title which you don't already have a good copy. I have several Heritage Press books which are, for me, so nice that I wouldn't upgrade them, even if money were no object, and I've mentioned several books where I actually prefer the design of the Heritage edition to it's pricier sibling.

(Incidentally, if you just have to have a Very Fine LEC of the Memoirs, my relative's copy which is still in the original packaging has not sold.)

:-)