Northanger Abbey by Jane Austen - lyzard tutoring SqueakyChu

Volume 2: Chapter 14

... in which Catherine returns home

1. "you always were a sad little shatter-brained creature..."

Nice words from one's mother!

2. What is a Mechlin?

3. "and, now, perhaps they were all setting off for Hereford.

I forgot what Hereford was. :(

A new thread!

Yes, I wasn't expecting that either!

1. As I keep saying, the Morlands are honest, straightforward people. :)

2. Mechlin is a fine, decorative lace. Mrs Allen is fixating on her clothes, as usual.

3. Hereford is a city near Wales - it's where the Tilneys were supposed to be going - the forgotten engagement that meant Catherine had to leave Northanger immediately.

1. "honest, straightforward"

I guess!!

2. "Hereford"

There were too many place names in this book. When cities, towns, resorts, and homes all have place names, I forget them as soon as I read them. Thanks for the reminder. (I did remember Northanger Abbey, though!)

"Shatter-brained" wasn't such a terrible criticism at the time - it basically just meant "thoughtless".

I thought of it more as scatter-brained! :)

"Scatter-brained" probably evolved out of "shatter-brained" - a more accurate description, really.

Volume 2: Chapter 15

...in which Mr. Tilney comes to visit

1. Is "The Mirror" a real book?

2. "...misled by the rhodomontade of his friends"

What's that?

3. I knew John Thorpe was somehow mixed up in this!

4. "...she had scarcely sinned against his character or magnified his cruelty"

Ha!

5. I love Mr. Tilney. He's sooooo sweet.

1. 'The Mirror' was a magazine published towards the end of the 18th century. It included advice columns in the form of letters written to the editor. Lots of people collected it and actually did use it as a conduct guide.

The letter referred to here is about a girl who goes to stay for a time with much grander friends, and as a consequence becomes discontented with her home, her parents, lack of parties, having to do housework, etc.

Mrs Morland mis-diagnoses Catherine's complaint. :)

2. Boasting or bragging; exaggerating. Thorpe is accusing his non-existent "friend" of doing what he always does himself. (Usually now spelled 'rodomontade'.)

3. Yes, I had a good laugh when you accused him the other day!

4. And this is Austen's point, Gothic / sentimental novels vs realistic ones. You don't have to chain your wife up in a dungeon to be a nasty person capable of doing damage to the people around you.

5. Sigh... :)

Some explanation on his father's account he had to give; but his first purpose was to explain himself, and before they reached Mr. Allen's grounds he had done it so well, that Catherine did not think it could ever be repeated too often...

Some people get aggravated with Austen for always reporting her loves scenes indirectly, but personally I like that she allows you to use your imagination - about how exactly Henry "explained himself", for instance. :)

Some people get aggravated with Austen for always reporting her loves scenes indirectly

I also like that it's not clearly spelled out. It's subtle...and sweet. :)

Volume 2: Chapter 16

...in which the couple needs approval for their marrriage from General Tilney

1. "Catherine remained at Fullerton to cry."

Now that's very useful!

2. "...I leave it to be settled by whomsoever it may concern, whether the tendency of this work be altogether to recommend parental tyranny, or reward filial disobedience."

Great last line!

3. I still don't like General Tilney. :)

The End

Again, a most heartfelt thank you, Liz, for walking me through Northanger Abbey (as well as our two previous books). It has been great fun to do this.

As soon as I pass my medical coding exam (*fingers crossed*) and my younger son is married off (in May), I might be up for another tutored read. See if you can find a book you think I'd like. I have been unable to get a copy of Clermont so we'd better move on to something I'm more likely to find in a used book store for just a few $$$.

So far, you've suggested some good novels. I'm not sure if it's really the books I like as much as talking my way through them. Either way, this has been truly enjoyable.

Lurkers, you may come out of the woodwork now! :)

> 13

Liz, that was fast!!!! Have you been lurking? :D

Two Jane Austen novels! Who would have believed it?!

Well, you're not SUPPOSED to like General Tilney!!

That closing line is Austen's final joke - the vast majority of Gothic / sentimental novels finished with a sanctimonious speech about virtue. My own edition quotes the the last sentence of The Orphan Of The Rhine (one of the "Horrid Novels", remember):

They were blessed with a numerous offspring, lovely as themselves, and presented, in the whole of their lives to the reflecting mind of the moralist, a striking instance of the imbecility of vice, and of the triumphant power of virtue.

This kind of thing made Austen laugh, so she's thumbing her nose at in in that closing paragraph. :)

>>#15

Not me!! :)

It's been a great pleasure, Madeleine - thank you. I hope we can get together for another tutored read before too much longer, if we can find a suitable book; I'll keep looking.

Now, all you lurkers - show yourselves for final comments!!

Well, you're not SUPPOSED to like General Tilney!!

I like to see both good and bad in characters, though.

Well, how did General Tilney have such nice children as Eleanor and Henry? Oh, yeah. There was also the flirtatious Captain Tilney!

I guess what I've gotten out of reading this last novel is that Jane Austen can be humourous and not "stuffy". For some reason I always think of "older" fiction" as more serious and not as light.

Why is Jane Austen so much more beloved by readers of classic fiction than almost any other author?

But some people are just unpleasant.

Probably because Henry and Eleanor were the disregarded younger siblings, they spent more time with their mother and under her influence, while son-and-heir Frederick was raised by his father.

I don't personally find 19th century novels "stuffy" in the sense you mean it - but they do tend to be very long and verbose - and that creates a barrier that can be difficult to get past. Some authors were more serious than others, of course, but quite often the humour is there if you can see past the obstacles of language and structure.

I think it's Austen's understanding of human nature. We laugh and flinch and nod at her character portraits because they're so instantly recognisable - the intervening two hundred years haven't changed that a bit. Most of her characters are real people to a degree that a lot of other authors have trouble reaching, and she also has a remarkable ability to be satirical and humorous without exaggerating.

And I also think a lot of people are affected by the value that she places in women, and her appreciation of women's struggle to find a meaningful way of living in a society that was often stifling, and often regarded them as second-class citizens.

Anyone else care to chip in here??

but they do tend to be very long and verbose -

I don't usually like books that take to long to get to the point. l generally like contemporary novels because they are short and snappy. Well, some are anyway.

I think what helped me get through all three "tutored" books was that I planned on only reading a few pages at a time. These are not the kinds of books I'd usually read for pleasure. My "pleasure" reads are generally those books that pull me along page after page, sometimes in a hurry (page-turners, if you will).

With that said, I do like to read to learn. It is in this category that I'd put the JA books. I need to take them in small doses, though, and understand them to a degree in order to get something out of them. Had I not been "tutored" to help me understand what I was reading, I'm not sure I would have chosen or even finished those books once I started them.

Well, you can count on me for the long haul if you ever decide to read one of the real 19th century chunksters a few pages at a time. :)

If it's too heavy to even carry, how long would such a book take me to read?

I think it's what you said, Liz, the recognizable humanity of her characters and the humor that underlies her depiction.

And congratulations, Madeleine!

>>#22 We-ee-ell...some of them were published in sections over two years - you could read them the same way!! :)

> 23

Thanks, Roni!

> 24

Two years would be too long. Two months seems to be just about right. I'll think I'll stick with shorter books, thanks! :)

If there's anyone else you'd like to try, give me a shout - I'll try to make some suitable recommendations.

Congratulations on finishing NA, Madeleine!
I want to thank you and Liz for this informative and highly enjoyable tutored read which I have been following in lurking mode from the beginning (as I did for Castle of Otranto).

I read Northanger Abbey only some months ago and liked it a lot, especially all those cringeworthy moments when Catherine is doing something embarrassing (opera house!). For me she is the most realistic (compared to today's girls) one of austen's heroines.

I am reading The Pickwick Papers right now and in chapters 35/36 there are some witty observations on Bath, the different pump rooms and the people to be found there (match-making mamas!).

Liz, do you know if Austen had read Clarissa Harlowe by Samuel Richardson? I am reading it in 2012 (very slowly, chronologically, 1year project), and the quote from #12
"...I leave it to be settled by whomsoever it may concern, whether the tendency of this work be altogether to recommend parental tyranny, or reward filial disobedience."
would very well apply to it.

Hi, Nathalie - thank you for de-lurking. I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty sure Austen would have read Clarissa: she was a great reader, she admired Richsrdson's Grandison, and Clarissa was one of those books that everybody read...hard as we may find that to believe these days. :)

Given the nature of that book, I doubt it's what she had in mind when writing the last sentence of Northanger Abbey - but I agree with you it applies very well!

Thank you, Madeleine and Liz, for another enjoyable lurking experience.

>29 RandyMetcalfe: Yep, agreed. Enjoyed lurking here, too!

Congratulations to you both! I've had a wonderful time lurking on this thread - and you two motivated me to reread Northanger Abbey last month. I'm just sorry it's over!

Congratulations to both of you! I thought this was terrific, and I'm sorry it's over, too. Your comments in >19 lyzard: say it for me, Liz, as to why Jane Austen's works remain so relevant and popular.

Thanks here from another lurker. I've been so busy and stressed of late, I've hardly been following any threads, but this is one of the few I've come to regularly, and have enjoyed the to and fro of questions, answers and comments. It's many years since I read Northanger and the details have long faded, but I shall read again with greater appreciation next time, thanks to the conversations on here.

I was surprised at how much I learned! Lyzard can teach me early novels any time.

It was fun to follow along!

Did you enjoy this one more than Emma, at least, Madeline?

Hi, there! I am just starting out with Northanger Abbey and this thread will serve me well, I'm sure. What a great concept! Like they say, "thanks in advance"!

Karen O.

> 34

Lyzard can teach me early novels any time.

That is if I decide to share her with you! ;)

> 35

Keri, I really did like Northanger Abbey better than Emma. I liked the characters of Catherine and Mr. Tilney very much.

>>#37 Now, now. There's plenty to go around!

> 36

Karen, feel free to add comments or questions to this thread as you read your copy of Northanger Abbey now!

> 39

Heh! Are you still lurking?! ;)

It seems strange to come home from work and not have another chapter of a 19th century novel to read! :O

Lurk, lurk...

It seems strange to come home from work and not have another chapter of a 19th century novel to read!

I can fix that! Just say the word...

Yes, Karen - if you want to add on to Madeline's threads, with any comments or questions, please do! I would only ask that you include clear chapter identifications, as Madeline does, so that we continue to make it easy for people to avoid spoilers.

Liz, you now know the kind of novels I'm willing to read - those that I like and those that I don't. Perhaps you could come up with a mini-list of suggested reads from which I might choose a future tutored read with you. If you are willing to do this, just post the mini-list on my personal thread.

I don't want the novels to be too long. Long chapters are okay because I can always chop them into smaller segments. The length of the novels we just read were perfect.

...which makes things a little more difficult, because those two novels are both shorter than average for literature of this time. But I will think about it and get back to you. :)

those two novels are both shorter than average for literature of this time

Heh! ...and precisely why I liked them!

BookMooch for Northanger Abbey offer deleted. I'm taking this book to a book festival to give away. Sorry!