What is a "Drive-By" Author?

What is a "Drive-By" Author?

Well, let me see.
1. You have only recently joined Library Thing, usually associated with the publication of YOUR new book.
2. You only have one book listed in your library ... YOURS!
3. The only posts you have made are promotions of YOUR new book.
4. You are a "Free" member and have little intention of hanging around this social network past the promotions of YOUR book.

"Drive-By" Authors are annoying and do a disservice to the other authors who participate. Do you really think the members don't notice? You actually do a disservice to yourself.

I bet this thread's going to heat up in a few days, Gary. It will be an interesting break for me from the dry as toast, dull as a doorknob, excruciatingly detailed yet boring book I've been reading for research...

Kinda like: "Are you a good witch or a bad witch", neh. ;)

MGP

Ellen, I certainly hope this thread heats up. Yeah, I like to stir the pot a little, but this group has gotten as boring as that book you are reading and the promotions by "Drive-By" Authors.

I'm a bad witch. hehe

@4 Technically, I am a strega.

MGP

Strega = an orange-flavored Italian liqueur?

Just kidding. the dictionary also reads = literally "witch"

@6 I think I like the first definition better ;), but alas the second is correct. I would also add it is a hereditary title. I am in the neutral good camp.

MGP

I had a little slip up with my novel (posted a thread about it in the wrong place), but I've tried to avoid doing that things listed in the first post. I have as many books in my library as I can remember reading, I'm a paid member, I've posted in threads other than the ones intended for discussing my book, and I've been with LibraryThing for a lot longer than my first novel has been available.

Personally, the part of promoting I enjoy the most is talking to readers and authors rather than just going Buymybookbuymybook. Drive-bys miss out on the best part of the job.

I agree with Gary on this terms. However . . . .

I don't think they're such a big deal. People look at the threads, see if they like the book, move on. Some people note the 'one book in library' and avoid the authors, others don't care. On the other hand, I have had people accuse me of just doing promo work, and I had close to 4k books in the library, had been here for years and taken part in a lot of discussions.

There will always be drive-by authors who are interested only in posting about their book and never show up again. Their threads will disappear beneath the more popular posts -- provided the rest of us make such posts. The more posts we make about other things, the less impact those drive-by posts will have. They don't do a disservice to authors -- they're not important enough to count for anything at all, unless we make them so.

So maybe we should be talking about good things, fun stuff about our books and make new authors WANT to join in? Some never will. I would shrug them off and hope some of them start getting the message and join in to make the conversations even more interesting.

Yes, Gary, the thread is infinitely more interesting than the book I'm reading from a respected historian - the chapters pretty much read like the first chapter of the Gospel of Matthew, but rather than the House of David, it's the Houses of York and Lancaster. One of the reasons I love to write is the research that comes with it and finding entertainment in 14th and 15th century civic records. Okay, it's official - I think I need a vacation...

@11 in doing genealogy research for a small mountain town in Sicily, I came across a record where the priest scrawled "Roma Roma Roma" all in the margins of the book , plus some face doodles. Methinks he was not happy.

MGP

Hi to all, I haven't been on the online computer in awhile. I am trying to learn how to put my books in to scriptwriting. Not an easy task. Doesn't look like much is going on with this site. You all must be off doing other things, too.
Betty

Had an encounter with a drive-by on the train this week. Was called a Berkeley snob literati when I told the gentleman who was passing out postcards for his work to everyone reading on the train, thanks, but no thanks, not what I'm into, concerning his work, but wished him well for his search for a reading audience. Arrogance, anger and attitude all in one morning - and that was just me, apparently.

I should have asked if he reads literary or women's lit.

Maybe I started as a drive -by but I have stayed to contribute. Now I find people seem to be running out of discussion threads. I am reading much more than I used to and enjoying reviewing what I have read. Without LT I would never have started doing that.Maybe when I get a Kindle I will feel more involved but, like computers, every time I think of buying one they bring out a new version. Postcards might have worked if the man on the train stopped to talk to people but, like cards through the door, they smack of desperation.

Or, if he asked what we were reading, or what we liked. Conversations about reading on the train and bus usually start with, "Is that a Kindle Fire? Oh, I have the Nook, or fill in the blank....

I think I'm a drive-by author. I read a lot of books, but I never liked to talk to other people about the books I read. But I would be happy to discuss Conrad, Hemingway, Faulkner, Philip K. Dick, Sax Rohmer, HP Lovecraft, Poe, Adam Hall, John LeCarre, John D. McDonald, Harry Harrison, Harry Crews, Walker Percy... I am not a good reviewer of books and so admire authors like Updike who are. But now I am epublishing my works and delighted they are finding a receptive audience, and I am happy to talk about them with whomever would like to have such discussions. I have always been shy about my writing, but now forced to press myself upon potential readers. That's how I've found the ones I have. But saying "Read me, read me" is not something I enjoy doing. But such are the new realities. Believe me, I very much hope for the day when readers will say: "Read him, read him."

No, Randy, you don't really strike me as a Drive-By. You've been a member for a while, and do participate in discussions other than promoting your own books. That's the main thing, I think -- that there is at least a token effort towards being a part of the community, rather than going "Oh, look! Customers!!!"
;-)

Randy, I agree with Joannasephine - You contribute quite a bit and I always look forward to what you have to say, as do you, Joannasephine. This is a rather interesting and safe place.

Agreed, It doesn't seem your a "drive-by"

Whew! It's so great not to be labeled as a "drive-by." Meeting people through forums and through epublishing has been quite amazing. I've found really good editors and proof readers and very very astute readers. The great joy for me still is to get a review from a reader who really gets it, and a reader that I consider pure, i.e, I don't know from Adam and they actually paid to read the book!

Yeah, I miss those times (sigh).

Had a wonderful moment on the train this morning - the train sort of slowed in the tunnel (I hate that), and when I looked up, I saw a woman reading the paperback version of "Tallis' Third Tune." Took all of my self-control to keep from running up to her and asking, "So - do ya like it? Huh? Huh? Whaddya think?" Kind of hard to miss that dark blue cover with the freesias spilling down the front and back.

She was still reading it when she got off the train, reading as she went out the door. Squeeeee!

E

That's really awesome, Ellen! I don't know if I would have been able to resist! And just as I posted my sigh above, low and behold I get my first 5 star Review! Awesome. The poster put it on Amazon, here on LT, and on Goodreads. I was so blown away. It validated my abilities as a writer, and believe it or not, that has never happened before. I love my family and friends dearly, but saying that, their Reviews don't count the way this person's words did. I know this doesn't mean I will suddenly hit the bestseller's lists, but it still means a lot to me! Yay!

MJ, congratulations! And if you were a part of my family, getting a 5 star review from them would be an achievement worthy of sainthood, I think. They're still in the "Oh, it's just Ellen, doing her thing, whatever it is this week, again..." We come from a long line of thinkers who think that you cannot have anything good said about you or what you're doing - it just wouldn't be fair to the rest of us.

Whoops, hit that button too fast - more 5s will come, MJ because what you've written is pretty dang good from what I've read so far.

Congrats to both of you!

Thanks, Ellen. Book Two out around Thanksgiving. I am also incredibly intrigued by your book as well, though I've only read the first chapter. I'm assuming the main character has died and is in a sort of after-realm, but I can't wait to find out where this journey goes. Completely unique and unlike anything else out there.

Thanks, CG! Your book is down the road a little bit, but it's on my list. May the gods of the Amazon (:O) bless us all on our journeys!

> 28

I've finished Exile and thought it was pretty good though I still need to put it on LT. I don't rate books but I can say it left me wanting to find out what happens in the second volume.

Ellen, it sounds like I need to get your book as well though it may be a while. It's great that the reader was so engrossed in the story.

@23 Most excellent :)

MGP

Thanks, hailelib. I hope to have Book Two out by Thanksgiving (hopefully even better than the first).

MJ: Keep reading....

30 hailelib, the "competition" I was up against on your reading list in Fantasy/Sci-Fi is extremely intimidating! I don't stand a chance against the likes of Neil Gaiman, Stephen King and the others . . . come off looking pretty poor in comparison. But I appreciate being included!

Still, I enjoyed your story!

MJ, at one time Neil Gaiman and Stephen King didn't have a chance, either.

I like Ellen's point-- I hope that someday the little guy using our names like those names!

I think I must be the opposite of a drive by author. I talk more about other things than my own works. LOL

#23 Ellen, that is so awesome! I would not have been able to keep away. My greatest hope is to someday walk through the airport and see someone reading one of my books. I think I would buy them a beer and hoop and holler all over the airport. Of course, they might stop reading it, thinking I'm just a loon. haha

Zette, no one would ever consider you a "Drive By", maybe the Station Master. BTW ... this is meant in a good way. hehe

LOL. I do have to start a thread about latest books soon, though!

I had an odd and wonderful experience about a month ago. I had to talk to someone with job references for a friend. We got through the list of things she wanted to discuss.

Afterwards she asked if we could discuss something else. It turned out her niece was a big fan of my Silky books and she wondered if they would be in print to get a signed copy.

Total stranger, several states away and completely out of nowhere with that one.

You'd love my commute train car - most of us read and share what we're reading. Yesterday it was a discussion of the lack of literary merit of "50 Shades of Gray," and the problem of getting ARCs on time to post advance reviews.

Does this description negate the published description of the forum?

Unlike the rest of the groups, this is a "safe space" for authors to promote and converse about their books without fear of being accused of spamming. Authors are encouraged to chat with members, not just copy and paste blurbs about their books.

This thread sounds very accusatory, and dis-welcoming. Are "drive-bys" actually so terrible?

Are "drive-bys" actually so terrible?

It depends on your definition of terrible. Counter-productive, certainly. And they do nothing to enhance the standing of this group within the wider LibraryThing community. But most of all, they're rude! This group is a safe place for discussing our own books, but if the only reason you sign up to LibraryThing is so that you can post what is essentially a free classified ad ... I don't think it's ever considered polie behaviour to appear in a social setting, say Buy My Product!!! and then disappear again. Even cold-calling salesmen ask how your day has been. LibraryThing is a place for readers, before anything else. Is polietness too much to ask?

#42 Zette,

I gave a reference ONCE. I told the potential employer, "Oh, yeah, I know her well. She has been a good, loyal worker since she got out of prison and quit drinking." I'm kidding, but I told my friend that is what I said. haha

I don't think drive-bys are horrible. I don't even consider them rude. This area was designated specifically for writers to tell about their work and nothing more was required of them. If that's all they want to do, then no problem. Those who don't want to read the threads by people they don't recognize wont' be bothered by them. They're easy to ignore.

I do think people who join in other conversations have a far better chance of making the connections they would want to make here, though.

While LibraryThing is for readers -- this section was made for writers. It is where writers can say 'hey, look at my work!' without everyone else considering it rude. In this specific area, no, I don't think it's a bad thing. However, you can do better.

As usual, all good points, Zette. I was just thinking, if there was only a single place where authors might promote their work, who would be on the thread other than authors? Then we'd have authors reading other authors' works and we know how the ratings police at Amazon would love that.

I've made some interesting connections - one person asked me to critique his work, another person posted her novel here and I read it, loved it, and got connected with other people through it.

Readers are our market and audience and to just show up and say, "Read my work!" and never hear from that author again, well, I dunno - sounds selfish. There are more than one author's books out there to read, and sharing, discussing, arguing and praising each other's choices of literature and work, just makes the community better. I've found titles I never would have read (and some I am sorry to have read!) here at Library Thing.

I don't think of it as selfish so much as just blind to possiblities. Telling them they're being rude and bad for doing it isn't, in my opinion, the way to foster them into the group and show them how it might be done better. Maybe that's because I've had fourteen years at the Forward Motion site and almost ten of those as the owner. I've seen what rude authors are really like. (grin)

This is a wonderful resource for writers. I'm trying to rework my schedule to make more time for reading fiction, in fact. I hope to find a lot of good stuff on these threads.

Hi to all! I've been so busy working on quilt tops that I haven't had a chance to get online too much. Grandkids now out of college and the computer is a busy machine. My old laptop doesn't get on line and has just about had it. Hopefully when I can get another, I can get on more and enjoy the messages. Hope all have a great day.

Hi, BettyN12. Glad to meet another quilter. I've been sidelined for several months, with a broken wrist. Now in PT, and hope to get back to it. Great to quilt and listen to books on tape!

I was supposed to be a drive by but then started reading the threads, was delighted at their relative depth and breadth here - LT really does distinguish itself as a site - very useful for readers, the best really, entertaining - and so parked my car and have since, except for a couple giveaways, basically abandoned it.

Alberto, I don't think you were ever a drive-by - and I hope you parked your car in a good part of town. Wink, wink....

Oh, you are right...I do have a weakness for the seedier side of town...(nudge-nudge) I just turned on the motor a minute to re-charge the battery. You never know when it might be needed for a quick getaway...

Oooooh, seedier parts of town makes for good fiction. I know some people who can watch over your car.

I can recommend Richard Castle's "Nikki Heat" series. Not the best writing, but I heard they let the actor who plays Richard Castle write the books - a bit more literary than Mickey Spillane. They are fun to read and oftentimes set in those seedy parts of New York City.

Thanks...I still miss NYC sometimes. Here where I spend most the time now the seedier part of town is probably the center, where all the politicians (and their 'friends') are driven around like well-dressed pimps....

Sounds like Capitol Hill in Washington DC....

Hi, still trying to get use to using the site. I had been trying to turn some of my books into screen plays. Got one done before computer lost my program. Hopefully, can get it back. Have the saved information but lost all the formatting. Have a 2000 so computer a little old. Hope you all are having a good day.

Sigh. I only have one book in my library. I don't mean to be a drive-by Author, but my WIP is turning out something like rasslin' gators. I've been having a very bumpy ride. So I'm not reading this summer, and trying to avoid spending too much time on the internet. But I will be a good girl and go right now and put a few books on my shelf....

Okay, I now have 49 books in my library, 35 of which by Nora Roberts. I iwll post books until my brain turns to mush!

CANewsome, you reminded me that I need to put all of my Jean Plaidy collection on the shelf - and I'm avoiding writing both a chapter in the WIP and the sermon for this weekend by finding out what everyone else is up to and reading. And Hobknob is a place for authors to mention their work without fearing villagers with torches and pitchforks. Now 'scuse me while I go finish reading the chapter I started reading of Nancy Bilyeau's "The Crown." Yeah, I'm still procrastinating...that sermon won't be done until 4:30 a.m. on Sunday... and the WIP...

I'm new here. I'm an author. I must confess that I signed on here mainly to advertise and promote my book. I don't know how long I'll be here or when I'll leave, but that will be entirely my decision.

I love books, and have read lots of them, even while writing my own book. However, I've never joined a book reading club or an Internet forum to discuss books. I don't see why I should suddenly want to spend the rest of my life doing that now, even if it gives me an opportunity talk about my own book. And if I did want to do that, should I choose LibraryThing over GoodReads, Shelfari, or some other readers' forum? Think of them as (in no particular order) Washington DC, Boston, San Francisco, etc.

That's right. Is it not very much like when authors choose to go on a book tour to let people know about their book? It may also be compared to a political campaign. The idea, in my opinion, is to treat people with kindness and respect, answer questions to the best of one's ability, and maybe make some friends. The idea is not to make one's home wherever one goes. Not only would that not be possible when touring the nation, but it's impractical on the Internet as well. The Internet offers millions of opportunities for marketing, advertising, and messaging, yet there is limited time.

Especially at this point, I urgently need to advertise my book because virtually nobody knows about it. I feel that I did my future readers a service through the time and effort that I put into writing my book. Now, the best thing I can do for them is to market the book. Of course, I expect to, and need to make money, but it's not just about me or about making money.

The main problem is that we all have a limited amount of time. I can understand how readers on websites like this can feel they've been taken advantage of when someone stops by, tells people about their book, then suddenly leaves. However, those authors unavoidably see marketing as part of their job. Maybe they had to get back to writing, which is another way of serving their audience. Even if they like to spend a lot of time on the golf course or whatever, their time is their time.

As an author and self-publisher, I have to wear many different hats, including writer, editor, proofreader, book interior designer, cover designer (photoshop student), website developer, blogger, copywriter, social media expert, public relations expert, marketing expert, tech support geek, outsourcing expert, business manager, subject matter expert in my field of nonfiction (theology), and continual student in all of these areas.

There are inconsiderate, greedy authors out there, but I don't think the term "drive by author" is either useful or fair. That kind of label can easily denigrate respectable authors who may leave this site abruptly because they either prefer or need to do other things, perhaps to earn a living.

As someone else pointed out, authors can only post about their books in certain areas. People can easily avoid those areas and spend time in other parts of LibraryThing if they wish. If most readers decide they don't want to hear from authors at all, they can tell LibraryThing, which can ban those kind of posts altogether. Personally, it wouldn't bother me because there are a myriad of other ways to market my book.

I'm not sure what the "disservice" is that "drive-by authors" allegedly do to other authors here. Presumably, it's in causing (or tempting) some people to become prejudiced against authors in general. Personally, I don't think that's a good reason for anyone to have a prejudicial attitude. Every authors' time is their own. I will leave when I want, but I will try to be respectful and courteous while I'm here. I also plan to keep an open line of communication with readers, even if it isn't on LibraryThing, which it probably won't be for the simple reason that I want to reach a larger audience.

We all tend to look for easy ways to judge other people, but people are much more complex than that. I think that's why the Bible tells us to leave judgment (in a condemning sense) up to God. We can make negative judgments, but I don't think "drive by" is a solid justification for that unless someone is shooting. I know that people can read other things in the Bible, or go by a different set of moral standards altogether. Anyway, this was just my biased opinion as an author. On a positive note, I'm happy to see that not everyone here agrees with the posting that started this thread.

As a reader I don't mind drive-bys. Well I don't in the Hobnob at least. It just doesn't really end up getting the author's book noticed. Sometimes I look at the author's page of some of the drive-by to see if it has resulted in actual members buying and adding the book to their libraries and it just doesn't At least not that I've seen so far, so it seems a waste of their time from a marketing perspective, but it is their time to waste any way they choose, so to each their own.

Personally, I've always thought accusing people of being a drive-by author was extremely rude. I understand the annoyance if authors post adverts for their books in places that they don't belong (i.e. interrupting other people's conversations for junk adverts, or in comments on my reviews like I get on Amazon all the time), but if they do it in the proper place (like Hobnob) then why bother caring?

Second, I'd like to point out that although I have a very active profile, if I were to publish a book and try to start a relationship with my readers, I would start a brand-new profile so that I could keep my professional life and my personal life separate. If I then only had a few books in my profile and seemed like a new member, would people accuse me of being a drive-by? Probably. Would that be rude and inaccurate? Yes! So I think as long as people are advertising their books in the appropriate places, they shouldn't have to deal with rude comments.

Maybe we should stop judging other people (when we couldn't possibly know the entire situation) and spend more time being happy, right?

Hobnob is a place where you can talk about your book, market, but sharing what you like/dislike about the books you're reading/read is also the norm and it's fantastic for building professional and personal relationships. As I've written before, I have discovered some pretty wonderful books and their authors here.

#62 & 64

Sorry guys, but I think you are wrong. The problem that drive-bys cause is that it chokes this group with threads that are nothing other than a variation on the theme of "buy me!!!" LibraryThing is about readers, not about authors. This group (and RagBag) was created to give writers a place where they could talk about their books and writing in general with interested readers. How many people do you think will bother to join this group when such a high percentage of the posts are just advertising?

Advertising is pretty well impossible to avoid everywhere else. The only requirement here is that your advertising be at least a little subtle, and that you make an attempt to behave as a member of the community, not just as someone with something to sell. When you get sent a link to this post, or someone suggests it might be a good idea for you to catalogue books other than the ones you're selling, take it in the way it is intended: an invitation to use the site in a way that is to everyone's benefit.

Another thing to consider: advertising elsewhere costs you money. Driveby authors are essentially trying to get something (a captive audience to market to) for nothing. Is that fair?

>66 joannasephine: Is that fair?

As far as I'm concerned, yes.

ETA: If the threads bother you, ignore them rather than seething about them. It makes life more enjoyable. I just checked the Hobnob group page...there hardly seems to be an overwhelming flood of advert threads. It's easy to ignore.

67: Authors expect readers to buy their books, don't they? It's a means of income, hopefully, for some. Why do you think authors should get free advertising? We do have groups here where an author can mention their works - as as mentioned mentioned before. I do click off messages that ask me to buy their book in the middle of a discussion on something entirely different, just as I turn the sound down and walk away during a TV commercial. Personally, I do almost all of my marketing on my WordPress blog site, Facebook, Twitter, LinkdIn, where it's expected to show up without much protest.

Well, I certainly agree that authors shouldn't advertise in the middle of someone else's thread or in an inappropriate group. I was under the impression that Hobnob WAS an appropriate group.

Clearly, an author on LT is going to be a lot more successful if he or she engages in conversations with the readers instead of just posting adverts. It is their own loss if they are too lazy to make an interesting profile or use this wonderful opportunity to engage in conversations with potential readers. Such people aren't utilizing the best resources available to them.

I almost never open advert threads, and I'll flag an advert comment that appears in an inappropriate place. I totally agree that they don't belong there and we shouldn't have to put up with them. But in the appropriate place, I just ignore them. I've seen authors on Hobnob be pounced upon for being a drive-by. Nicely inviting them to have a better profile and engage in conversations isn't bad, but there are people who ATTACK. Those are the people I feel are rude.

I think part of the problem is that those authors who "drive by" are often -- not always -- the same ones who drive by while dropping their messages in all the wrong places. So there's a lot of overlap in that Venn diagram of "drive by" authors and spam authors, such that even the good "drive by" authors get the reputation that the spammers deserve.

But as a reader and a writer, I have to say that although the drive-by authors who do it correctly aren't "bad" or "wrong," I do feel a little insulted that they think I should be interested in them and their work, even though they don't have the slightest interest in getting to know me even a little, through conversation. I'm interested in people, what they read, whether they liked it, and why. I met a successful author in person some years ago who scoffed "I don't read! I couldn't possibly have time to read other people's books!" I lost a lot of respect for her. The best writers tend to be voracious readers anyway, but regardless, the size of the ego was shocking to me. Clearly she thought her work is about the only thing out there that readers should spend time reading!

I like to think that if I contribute meaningful content people will become curious about me and perhaps curious about my work... Though experience with blogging and such has taught me that getting people to click anything on the internet is almost impossible, but sometimes it happens.

So I try to make myself somewhat friendly and relevant.

I have a feeling we're mostly in agreement here, with the differences being how much or little tolerance we are individully willing to exhibit for drive-by authors.

And yes, while I agree that ignoring annoyances is healthier in the long term than getting annoyed about them, a community like this does rely on at least some of the members acting as defacto policeman and steering people who aren't acting appropriately to posts that explain why their behaviour is missing the mark. And this particular post has been one I've used when trying to encourage people to not post-and-run. Which is why I'm still taking part in the conversation, rather than retiring to my corner, muttering ...
;-)

Although the current set of messages doesn't look too bad, there have been plenty of times when the list of HobNob threads has been dominated by drive-bys. (And the odd "why hasn't anybody replied to my post about my wonderful new book? You people are so unfriendly!" follow-up post, which always makes me giggle, even if a little hysterically.)

>72 joannasephine: "a community like this does rely on at least some of the members acting as defacto policeman and steering people who aren't acting appropriately to posts that explain why their behaviour is missing the mark."

I've followed this thread and haven't said anything because, honestly, I just simply ignore the drive-by authors or post-and-run authors or whatever you want to call them. I understand why they do it, I understand why it upsets people, and I understand it is what it is and will remain that way.

By all means steer the people in the right direction and suggest new authors spend time here and post more than "Buy my book!".

What upsets me the most is some of the 'defacto policeman'. I've seen some pretty unfriendly replies to new authors who may honestly not understand they are doing wrong. (Yes, we all read the ToS and memorized it.) When I first joined this group, the first 4-5 posts were drive-by's, some with rather unfriendly replies. I almost say goodbye to the group but never left. I was curious as to why a group supposedly devoted to author/reader interactions was so hostile to authors. Over time, I saw there were a few friendly people here that wanted to talk about books, writing, and authoring books, so I got more involved. And over time, there has been less animosity towards new authors.

Had I been an author back then, and either posted a drive-by or seen another author be shot down, I would have left. There are a lot of other places on the web to be and there is no reason to be here in a hostile environment.

My point being is that some authors probably don't stick around because of the way these 'defacto policemen' have replied to them.

>73 LMHTWB: Yes, this is what I was trying to say. I think it's horrible the way some people are so rude to the authors. It is easy to be polite and say "actually, it would be better if..." or "there are better places for this..." rather than making them feel unwelcome. Rudeness in the "defacto policemen" is just as inexcusable as it is in the tasteless authors who post in inappropriate places.

I was a member of Hobnob when it first started, but then I saw a number of hostile posts against authors. I quit, and only recently joined again. I don't like being in a hostile environment even if the hostility isn't aimed at me.

I think a good rule to keep in mind as a newcomer to any social media outlet is that they've been in existence for a while and have their own cultures and rules in place...and as a newcomer it's up to us to learn those rules and cultural norms and decide whether we want to stay in the group and abide by them or go elsewhere. Yes, authors are busy people and have to work hard to get the word out about our books. But mis-using social media and alienating the people we're trying to connect with is not going to do us any favors.

Marissa, speaking both as an author and as an administrator on a large children's lit forum

I admit that I'm a drive-by author and that everyone has a point of view. Writing is good for an author, even if it is a comment or a complaint. Hope all have a great day.

If you ever came across me anywhere else - and there's no reason you should have (blushes) - you'd probably have heard me say I'm an Idiot - and that you should probably ignore anything I say. But you can't really do that unless I, um, say something to be ignored :-). So here goes - my two cents, worth the standard wooden nickel on the open market :-)).
By the definition offered, there are indeed 'drive-by' authors. And, to my poor wit at least, part of that is because there are just so many ratted roads to drive on :-P.
Er - what did he say?
OK. I'll offer it again.
There are so many damn roads.
Oops. I said a Bad Word(tm) :-).
Authors, especially those trying to become 'Authors somebody apart from their sister's cat has heard of', are told 'you have to do the Social Media thing.' And that's where it can get sticky. Or un-sticky. Because the 'Social Media thing' really can be incredibly valuable. But it can also be aubergine.
Er - aubergine?
Yes. Aubergine. Or egg plant (not they grow too well if you plant eggs and wait. I know - I tried :-P). And like aubergine because? Because if you ever tried to fry aubergine, the first time you did you probably wondered where the melted butter or oil went. So you added some more. And it went. And you added some more, and - well. You get the picture. And when you were done? Inedible aubergine.
Social Networks, writer hubs - they can be like that. Even the useful ones. The good ones. Because there are so many, and the 'trying to be known' Author can just keep adding them. Join this one. Join that. Join the other 99999999999999. And while the same people telling those authors to join also tell them to 'be a part of the community', to 'build relationships' - those authors are logging into 'just one more'. They tell themselves they'll come back. Be a part of the place. Build those relationships - as soon as they've joined the next one. Or maybe two. Or...
See? Aubergines. Because the end result doesn't help. Not them - and not the communities.
I guess this is where I'm supposed to tell you how smart I am. How wise. How I worked out the Magic Answer - and only joined here because here is the Bestest Place Ever. Well - I'm not smart. I'm not wise. Mostly I'm an Idiot - and as good as this place is (and it's as good as the people in it, which makes this one rather good indeed), as good as this place is - I'm probably a drive-by author. By the original poster definition.
But if that makes me a Bad Person(tm), I promise - I'm trying to be better. Really, I am. And if it looks like I'm driving by - maybe we can exchange smiles in passing. So this is me. Smiling. I know - I'm probably not very good at it yet. Maybe I need more practice. Maybe we all do. So I'll take care of my end - and try to smile. And to cook better aubergine :-).

The Idiot

I found this thread quite interesting. I’m a new author and also a new member on librarything. And, yes, I originally joined librarything primarily to list my book. But as I am slowly becoming more familiar with it, I am beginning to understand the full value of being on here, not just as an author, but as a reader as well. I hope to learn of many interesting books I would not have found otherwise. I also hope to connect with some interesting people that share my love for the written word, both in the form of fellow authors and avid readers. If you look at my personal library, you will see I don’t have very many books listed. That’s because as crazy as it may sound, I haven’t read a lot of books. I’ve probably read more books in the last two to three years (as my dream of having my own book published was finally looking more promising) than all the other years of my life combined. That’s not to say I didn’t read. I started out as a freelance writer 15 years ago with a major daily newspaper as something they referred to as a Reader-Columnist. It was nothing more than the name implied, I was a reader of the paper that contributed an editorial column to the opinion page once a month. From there I got into music and entertainment writing (everything from celebrity interviews and feature stories about artists to CD and concert reviews) for several local and regional entertainment magazines and a couple of websites. I eventually also starting doing local sports coverage for a small weekly newspaper. So I read a lot of the same things I wrote, newspaper and magazine articles, reviews, interviews and websites. Once I started writing a book, I started reading more books. So I hope my library list will grow quickly. I am also brand new to this group, but I hope to be seen as a valuable contributor soon. This is my first comment in this group. I also intend to start my first thread ever (not in this group, when I say ever, I mean ever. Most of this is still new to me) in a minute to try and get a discussion started about the topic I wrote my book on, disappearing middle class jobs that pay a livable wage while also providing adequate benefits. I don’t expect the entire discussion to revolve around “my” book. I’d just like to hear some other opinions on the subject in general. Hope to see some of you there. And I promise you all I will try not to act like a drive by author as I'm learning my way around.

You're not an idiot. You're awesome! I loved this post. And as a new member to librarything, as well as a new author in general, I completely understood every confussing word you wrote. (Okay, so maybe that just means I'm an idiot, too!)

Lord Clyde

Sadly, the only awesome thing about me is my waistline. And maybe my ego, which has on occasion been known to distort the local gravitational field. Generally shortly before falling flat on its face having prompted my mouth to say something really, really dumb :-). But hey - everyone has to have _some_ talent. Mine is, apparently, falling flat on my face (blushes).
I'd say 'welcome to the community, sir!'. But I'm not sure I've been here long enough to get my own washroom key yet, never mind welcome new arrivals. So, if I may - welcome to one bit of the bits of the worlds I'm in :-).
To my poor and lackwit eye, there's a nice crowd here, with interesting views. Pull up a chair. Take this tall, slightly foamy mug of something extremely cold. Sit back - and just let it wash over you. Take a stroll. There's folks here well worth a listen (well, and me too, but I'd ignore me. I generally do :-P). There's folks here eager to hear what you have to say. So speak, think and be Bradley - for tomorrow ye fly!
But there we are. I've babbled my babble and gibbered my rish enough. I'll set my lips to langour, and my voice to still, for there are others here (aye, and near any if truth be known :-P) more wise than I, with better to say. So if scattered words may be considered the jester's tatters, then on with the motley. Whatever motley may be... :-P.

The Idiot

Graeme: Your words lead me a merry dance and make me smile. Have a wonderful day, dear denizen. You truly belong here.

Graeme: are we siblings from different mothers? Oh, your washroom key is in the mail...

Merry One

Marry, that word Merry - it be to thy credit and my gain. For if there be dancing to be done, of word or spirit, then I'd set my foot to thine, and my hand the same, to kiss as Palmers kiss, that we may share but one foot travel, and another - and walk a path to...
Nurse! The red pill! And bring a blue one too!
Phew. That was close :-P.
'Tis pleasure to greet ye, Lady Mary. And even more to know you know that fine Mr Lyon and the Old Ones also :-P (this is 'Social Network code' to say yes, I checked your profile - and we share the good Ms Cooper. I'd say I'm a smart-a$$, but I just checked, and sadly it ain't so (blushes)).
There is no day more wonderful than one that brings a new face to it - and if that face stands sister to wit more than any I bear - I'll take both and count the day golden. Thus - this day is gold, for thy presence, lassie :-).
Er - nurse? I think we need the Green one too. Yes, I know what the doctor said - but go and get it anyway... (blushes).

The Idiot

Lady Ellen

Would it were so - but were it so, we'd have to share the same father. And I'd not wish that caitiff on any other :-P. Besides - I'm short, fat, bald and ugly (fortunately my wife has lousy taste in men :-)))) ), so you'd not wish any part of my DNA were thine. And your profile proves it isn't so. So there :-P.
But I've looked, I have. And now it seems I have a challenge. For (and I'll try to avoid abusing the nature of this group by mentioning such evil things as titles and seeming to bring that evil, marketing, to this party :-P) I see no genre in thy list an Idiot might fit. So now it seems I must seek to tempt ye - and that marks me tempter, aye and to one of the cloth! Muahahahahaha!
OK. That one might have stepped over the edge a little. Er.. nurse.....? :-)

The Idiot

Graeme,

I took a quick sneak peek at your, A Comedy of Terrors on Amazon. I've never been really big into fiction. I'm more of a truth is stranger than fiction kind of guy. And fantasy has never really been my thing. But I do like anything that has to do with comedy. And I must say, I absolutely LOVE your writing style. I was so impressed, I'd order the rest of the book if I had a kindle.

Lord Clyde

My thanks indeed for thy words, sir! :-)
This isn't any place for me to market. But this I'll say - I'd rather have ye for a friend for my own betterment, and ye never read one word of mine, than a friend who reads me because they think they must. So think on that, laddie :-).
but since ye spoke first - I'll risk breaking a Rule or ten. I was never very good with Rules anyway... :-P. Because there is a Kindle Reader for the PC. And if you went to the publisher's site you'd find they offer it in a number of file formats, includind PDF.
But if my drivel brings a smile - you could wander by www.graeme-smith.net instead. There's more of the writing side of me there (yes - with apologies to Merle Haggard :-P). I don't post as often as I should - but I'd be interest in your thoughts, sir. Or those of any here... :-).

The Idiot

We have a low tolerance, it seems, for shameless self-promotion. But there is nothing, dear Graeme, shameless about your presence here. You are engaging, you talk about subjects other than yourself, you are have books other than your own in your library, you've joined a couple of groups, and you like me! You really like me!!

*deep breath* Apologies. I'll try the green one.

Lady Mary

Well, I'm bound to like you. After all, my wife tells me I have excellent taste in women! Though I'm not so sure she'd be happy with me going round being engaging, us being, like, married and all. I think we did the engaging thing some time gone (blushes) :-). Rather a lot of some time gone. Heck - there's rocks round here called me granfer when they was mountains :-P.
Too kind it is ye be, Lady Mary. I dinnae deserve ye, but can I keep a small part of ye anyway? :-)

The Idiot

Just a note to say there is some interesting writing here. Everyone have a great day.

Just an idea...how about starting a thread "Author Promotions/Announcements Posted Here!" or some such language to corral the drive-by authors on one thread. Authors can promote their giveaways and publication. Readers can still check out the posts, but it would neaten up the forum. I know the one-offs drop down in the rankings because no one responds, but this might be a way of tidying things up and avoiding the annoying single post threads, leaving more space for actual discussions and "hobnobbing." We might have another: "Authors looking for reviews" where authors could post their book information and how to get in touch, etc. The admins could even point new authors to these threads in their guidelines. Thoughts?

I was thinking exactly the same thing -- maybe one for "reviews sought", one for "new book announcements" and a third for "giveaways"?

Want me to start it up? All three?

E

Sure and let the admin know, so s/he can add to the guidelines if s/he wants. Thanks, Ellen!

I'll do it tonight when I get home and have my own computer in front of me! Stay tuned!

Hello - I'm going to work on the threads now.

Looks good Ellen, thank you for doing it.

Friends: Based on the suggestions of some of us, I've added three new threads to Hob Knob with Authors just for promotion and marketing so that authors can stop by on one of those threads to plug their work. This is not censorship of the authors that post at Hob Knob, but to 'neatened up' the forum as it was suggested by MarysGirl, and to keep everyone in the loop and happy.

Authors, especially new authors, once you've used the three new threads, please come here and join the conversations! There are so many wonderful and interesting readers and authors in this group - it's never dull and I'll tell you, reading your posts and being able to share my experiences makes it easier to write some days.

Thanks!

Ellen

I hate to say this, but I really don't think this is a great idea. I, for one, don't want my book lost in a crowd of 15, 20 or however many others end up on the thread. If I start a thread for a new release, I do so to draw people to the specific book, not everyone else's as well, and I hope to have people comment on the post -- to hobnob with the readers. It would be great to build a conversation with them, which will not happen with this thread. And as a reader, I'd much rather even see the supposed drive-by posts and be able to look and say 'No, not for me' than to have to scroll through a number of books in various genres that do not interest me at all.

@97 What are the 3 new threads?

MGP

>98 zette: I didn't suggest this as way to shut down great "hobnobbing" threads like the Storyteller series where the author has a wonderful conversation going with readers; more a way to corral the one-off threads of true drive-by authors. Most of these authors make an announcement--"published, free, reviews wanted"--(because it's "allowed" here) and move on. Folks like you who are active certainly should start a conversation thread. I understand your reluctance re announcements getting lost on a dedicated thread; I haven't made any one-off specific announcements here because I felt they would be lost in the clutter of drive-bys. Don't know what the answer to that is. Neither a dedicated thread nor a one-off will keep us from being overwhelmed by other announcements other than the fact that other readers recognize us because we've been active in the group.

Personally, I see little difference in scrolling through the topics at the top thread level and scrolling through the topics under a thread--with the exception that the "new comment function" allows me to go immediately to the new stuff on a thread without scrolling through the comments I've already read. Of course, time drops the old stuff with no comments down on the top thread list, so I guess it's six of one... It really is a personal preference. I've found that I pay more attention to "post everything dealing with X here" kinds of threads on other boards. One-off clutter makes my eyes glaze over and I tend not to investigate very far down the list. I spend less time on this forum than many because of that. Everyone deals with this stuff in her/his own way. I certainly wasn't trying to impose my sense of order on others, just making a suggestion I thought would tidy things up and make it easier for everyone to find what they wanted to read about. Since it isn't mandatory, people will do what they want and, in the marketplace of ideas, it will either wither or thrive.

Giveaways! Reviews Sought and Author Promotions. These are NOT mandatory threads - they are for those who just want to drop off the information and go. As MarysGirl said, it's for those one-off drivebys.

Zette, I'm sitting on the fence on this once, still, but I put up the threads because when I'm really tired (a lot) and in the middle of a great conversation I get a marketing pitch, it can be annoying - not all time time. There are people who find it more annoying than I do and that's why I offered to start the threads.

And why I'm an enthusiastic supporter of them. It's intended to give those who only want to drive-by a place where they can dump and run. Threads that are actual conversations are precious things that should be nurtured, and kept free of non-nutritive calories spam the other stuff.

Hi all, I just found this group (came over from FantasyFans) and am browsing through the threads to see if it's interesting to join. I've been reading this thread with interest. Just to give you a reader's point of view: the first few posts I've opened so far contained BUY ME's. In some cases there were several messages, and none of them were from anyone else. Quite frankly, these BUY ME's are simply not credible. I don't think I would mind the sales pitch so much if it felt genuine, but for as far as I could see, all of them sounded over the top, written to crank up sales and nothing else. Surely it is possible to drive by and leave a message that is open, real, and something you wouldn't feel embarrassed about if you had to say it out loud to one of your neighbors? I can totally see that it's not for everyone to hang around LT all the time, and personally I don't mind that people leave again after discussing their own book or that they don't enter all their books here. But this over-positive tone of some of the sales pitches does get annoying over time, and makes me feel that I am not being taken seriously. (Some of the sales pitches are modest enough, but the over-the-top ones seem to be prevalent among drive-by authors).

And in an off-topic response to EllenEkstrom, post 23: next time please go ahead and run up to the person reading your book! If I were reading a book in public and the author would come up to me, I would be thrilled! Unfortunately, the chances of that happening are slim: I read mostly English books, and live in the Netherlands...

zjakkelien: I saw the woman again (we commute at the same hour) and did ask what she was reading. She said it was an interesting book that had her in tears at times and she was dreaming about the characters, and wished the story wouldn't end. Yes, she was still reading my book - that was about a week after I first saw her.

Wow, cool!

@104 Nirvana :)

104 That sounds really really awesome, Ellen.

I just wandered into the livingroom to make certain that the sounds of giggling I have been hearing emanating from that direction did, in fact, emerge from the daughter who was reading my book on the couch (as she has done for much of the past few days.)

Yes, they did. Score!

I guess bumping into someone reading my book on a bus would be even cooler, but at the moment, I'll take what I can get.

>103 zjakkelien: I think I know which posts that you are referring to, and I agree.

I had a person that works for the company I work at (but a different location) call me because they bought my book and they had to tell me how much they loved it and begged me to release something else soon! It was pretty cool, I must say!

Verging on the cliff here near 'drive-by,' but I really finished "Scarborough" (I rewrote the last five chapters at the last minute) and finally gave it to the editor at Central Avenue Publishing on Monday - feels like I gave birth to an elephant or something. "Scarborough," the companion to "Tallis' Third Tune," tells the same story as "Tallis" (first and lost love, finding happiness, figuring out stuff, life that is good and/or sucks) but from the boy's point of view - and you still get Richard III and crossword puzzles, PopTarts, AND Janis Joplin! "Scarborough" launches on December 24th.

# 109 Congratulations, Ellen! Can you get the characters out of your head now?

I can agree with many here. Honestly, I don't object to the self-promotions. I've done it myself. It's the absence of discussion topics that I object to most. When this group consists of almost entirely self-promotions threads, the group starts to become boring and irrelevant to the readers. Why come to the group when all you see are self-interest posts of "buy me". Is it really too much to ask authors to ALSO contribute to the group by posting a discussion topic or contribute to on-going discussions?

#110 - No; and as usual, I'm cranky and just rotten to be around. And I want Poptarts, but I can't because I've just been diagnosed as diabetic and I'm still weening myself off sugar...

Anybody else get cranky and irritable after finishing a project?
Eventually, I'll relax...

Haha poptarts and cockroaches last forever...I wonder who told me that...

I'm cranky when I am writing because I feel like, although I type 80+ wpm, I can't type fast enough. You literally can't talk to me without me going "dino" and ripping your head off... I'm better after I finish kind of like the "ah ha" moment.

Oh, yeah...CAN'T wait to read Scarborough!

>109 EllenLEkstrom: I hate to tell you this Ellen but you are a total failure at this drive-by businesss. You did the promotion part, but you're supposed to disappear afterward and never be heard from again. (Only please don't, we'd miss you!)

>113 CGiovanni: They told me it was twinkies that lasted forever. I think I'd rather it was pop-tarts.

#113 - that would be me...

#115 LShelby: Would it help if I posted every other day about my books, and asked, "So...have you read it? Hunh? Hunh? Whadja think, hunh? Hunh?"

Speaking of which, about the time "Scarborough" comes out, we're hoping "The Legacy" will be re-booted with a more finely-tuned, better edited story, since it was just thrown out there when it was re-released when Armor was printed. NOT changing the cover though; my son-in-law took the photo and let me Photoshop the antique-goodness on it. The Legacy had a run of bad editing. First book, lots of lessons, hard lessons, to be learned. Good story, though...

Okay, LShelby - I think I've redeemed myself here!

Happy Friday, all!

E

Why am I suddenly somehow thinking that some of the people here would get a lot of mileage out of a spoofed promotion thread where we all posted deliberately awful promos. I mean, we've SEEN so many of them, right?

> 117 "First book, lots of lessons,"

Do tell.

#118: Hmmmmmmm.....the chipmunks on the wheels of the brain are awake and the wheel is starting to turn...no, that's not a bad promo but my mind working...

#118 Oo yes, I like the subversiveness of it. But you may need to define "deliberately awful". Badly written? Over the top each trying to outdo the other in the shameless pimping? Or spoof promos for books that don't actually exist which we make sounds as horrendous as possible? Or all of the above?

'Honey and Humbug', the collection of verses by four pensioners, two of whom are well known locally for their previous books, has photos of the four authors on the back, a portion of the cover price going to charity, large print and local references as well as nostalgia, humour and cartoons. If you like the poems in the Daily Mail, you'll love this book. It would make an ideal Christmas present for a mature relative.
Is that enough pimping? { for local read Sussex and Surrey}

PS I don't need to advertise really. I only have 40 copies left.

>120 joannasephine: Whoever has the courage to actually start the thread gets to decide what the goal is. >:)

>121 oldstick: I don't know, oldstick, I think you need to work on your technique. That wasn't even irritating. Maybe since it's a book of verses, your promos should be in rhyme.

Honey and Humbug has poems that were wrote
By four old geezers, two of note
And two that nobody seems to know
But there's photos of all four even so.
It's got nostalgia, humor cartoons and fun
Just like the Daily Mail, so run
and buy a copy for your old mum
Hurry quick, or Christmas will come

(And you needn't regret this buying spree
Part of the proceeds are for charity!)

> 122
Excellent rhyming!

I did wonder if anyone would pick me up on the Daily Mail reference. I enjoy their offerings even if modern poets must cringe and sneer. Not enough Brits on line, I guess. It seems to be the newspaper that most people criticise yet when it comes to quoting the news on programmes like 'Loose Women' it is always from that paper. Enough UK stuff!

I find I'm not putting books I don't enjoy into my LT library any more, which means they don't get LT reviews. If I find another really 'bad' book may be I'll try a spoof plug.
Another book I had to try
Was once a film that made folk cry.
A man was trapped inside a dog
Travelling through a mental fog.
What was he really, man or beast?
Reading, I didn't care the least.
The only'Fluke' that I could see
Was the con the author'd played on me.
But then t'was written years ago
And that is something we must know
Our early works are not our best
Maybe, one day, I'll read the rest.

I like the idea false promo. Kind of Like Bulwer-Lytton, for us. At least could give us all a much needed chuckle. :)
"It was dark & stormy" book....

MGP

>124 oldstick:
And again, excellent rhyming!

> 124 Oh, Brava!

As for the false promo idea, I would like to point out that I have just started a couple of threads, so it's someone else's turn.

Go for it! >:)

118> LOVE IT!

Oh. No. just. saw. another drive by post.

Read my work. READ IT, I SAY! Read it because I WROTE IT and I THINK IT'S WONDERFUL!!! Why? I SAID SO.

Okay, did that work?

Sculking away now, back to the secular job I hate but pays the bills....

Oh.

This was sarcasm, a bad joke, being naughty...shame on me.
Bad author...bad, bad, author! Go sit down and write 50 times, "You are NOT the center of the universe..."

Wait, what? I'm not the center of the Universe...Goodness...that changes everything

>131 CGiovanni: No, you might be the center of the Universe, but Ellen is not. LOL! ;-)

According to the theory that the universe is infinite and expanding in all directions, everywhere is the centre of the universe …

Ellen, soooo funny.

Yay! My ego is restored!

Sniff...sniff...I'll have to tell that archangel that won't leave my home office that it was wrong about my being the center of the universe. It was probably wrong about the Mini Cooper I'm supposed to get for Christmas, too...sniff...

I was promised a white Audi!

My ego, however is destroyed. I thought I was the center of the universe. ;)

Oh, and everyone should read my book. You'll all love it. I know because my mother and my husband and my kids all love it, and so of course everyone else will too. And if they don't love it, clearly they have very bad taste. Plus it has LITERARY QUALITIES while at the same time being a FAST PACED and INTIMATE view into an EXCITING and UNFORGETTABLE world never before seen. It will at once FASCINATE and AROUSE the reader as it smoothly mixes MELANCHOLY and OPTIMISM in a way that will leave the reader BREATHLESS as it builds to a STUNNING conclusion that clinches its claim to TIMELESS QUALITY.

So nyah!

(Would you believe I stole the smooth mix of melancholy and optimism bit from an actual blurb on an actual published book?)

Oh, my! That sounds amazing! :)

How about ICONIC! That seems to be the most popular adjective at the moment.

>139 CGiovanni: "Oh, my! That sounds amazing! :)"

And the best thing about it, is that it I can use that same blurb over and over again for all my books.

>140 oldstick: How about ICONIC!

Oops. You're right. I missed that one.
I guess I'll need to rewrite it after all. Darn!

It's almost time to give thanks: Thanks for a place to be together and share ideas, and, yes, to learn to ignore anyone who offends.

Happy Small Business Saturday. Buy a Book!

LShelby, you borrowed the words right out of my brain.

And as for iconic, that's pretty much all the nice things on my prayer desk at home.

Esta1923 - we are blessed to indeed have a safe place where we can be ourselves, first and foremost, share, whine, and ignore and praise, cheer each other on - not to mention share what we're reading.

Ellen, I know it's late in the game, and you are hitting Prime Time in your other life, but we really do have to deep-six the phrase "drive-by": the associations are just to horrible. After the dust settles, and the snow is shovelled, I'll try to come up with something just as pungent, but not so toxic. Peace, -- Goddard

#145

I think "drive-by" in its original use and intent was meant to be a little toxic, but as zette points out, maybe we could find better ways of encouraging participation. I would be interested in seeing what you come up with. (smiling)

How about "drive-through"?

Has potential: double-cheese, hold the mayo . . . -- Goddard. PS: evidently my earlier suggestion got deep-sixed in LT's unfathomable software; I'll try to find it in the early morning fog, and then, as the saying goes, share the love.

I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaack. Just like Chuckie in those old horror films. May I offer OBW (One Book Wonder) and/or LAMB (Look At MY Book!)? -- GCG

Tell me, Mr. MacDonald, did you find "drive-through" offensive?
:)

But G, I didn't coin the phrase, "Drive-By Author," we all just ran with it. ; )

Ah yes, Prime Time is almost here - and fortunately, my tiny little parish appreciates its clergy and we don't have an actual Christmas Day eucharist, but we do a Christmas Eve. The vicar and I get to spend the holiday with our loved ones.

My suggestion is to continue what we have been doing - when we get a visitor touting their work, we invite them to stay and chat, ask why they wrote it, what influenced the author, what else they've got up the sleeve, why they write.

In re #147. Dear Thomas, never in life would I take offense. I really DO think you're onto someting. Meanwhile, I tend to eschew drive-trhoughs in "real life", in apprehension of being rear-ended. What do we suppose is the literary -- or the LibraryThing equivalent -- of THAT? Keep the hits comin' (as it were). Peace, -- Goddard. PS: as you've probably realized by now, I je m'appelle Goddard. Harry is my nom-de-LT.

# 141
Humm I don't know. "Drive By" tells a story in the name, is toxic enough to get a person's attention, describes the offensive action, and is short.

I like the terms OBW & LAMB ... they're cute and tell a story in themselves, but, I'm thinking the group doesn't want to discourage or disparage anyone with only one book to promote (everyone starts with only one) or anyone wishing promote a book (that's what Hobnob was created to do. I think we want to encourage them to do so but also stop and become an active participating member.

While "Drive-By" does include many OBW and LAMB, the term is better defined by their action of NOT participating in discussions or becoming an active member. They jump in, promote their book/s as they drive by, then exit out the back door, never to be heard from again. And is intended to be somewhat toxic.

"Drive-Through" also works, I'm thinking.

That's my opinion, for what it's worth.

You appear to be very creative; please keep going.

Drive Through would be appropriate, especially if they're taking orders...

I, personally, have nothing against an author trying to get publicity for his work by most any legal means available. It is very hard to get one's foot in the door, and I'm a bit surprised that other authors would be offended or irritated or whatever the best word is. I can understand other authors wanting everyone to stay around and talk! It's a bit rude if there are expectations otherwise, maybe, to drop by merely to plug a book - but there are worse offenses than rudeness. So it's OK as far as I'm concerned (for what that is worth).

But I can enjoy playing with words along with others, hence my "drive-through" contribution. Maybe a good response to such an author could be, "Would you like fries with that?" Or maybe that question could be the name of a thread devoted just to plugging books and moving on.

# 155

Laughing ... I like that, "Would you like fries with that?" That does tell a story and leaves an image.

>156 GaryBabb: - the funniest use of that question that I've heard was by a secretary in our office, asked of a particularly presumptuous administrator with a large sense of entitlement. When he would pompously expect her to drop all and jump to this or that "need" of his ASAP, she would often ask with her beautiful Irish smile, "Would you like fries with that?"

In re #s 154, 155 & 156. A place-specific note. I am writing this from Vermont, where every other adult claims to be either a writer or a "healer". Some claim to be both. A very few are in fact either one, let alone both. Still, I "think local", as I sit here a few miles from Hardwick, described in a recent popular book as the town which was "saved" by food. And here we get to the "would you like fries?" part. Up here such a question would never suffice. First, the drive-through place would have to be prepared for inquiries like "organic or poisoned?". Then the long-suffering window-wizard would have to go through an entire catechism, e.g. vegan or not, mucousless or not, locally-grown or not, sea salt or Morton's, da-da, da-da. I literally know families which have stopped inviting neigbours to dinner because of the rannygazoo involved in accomodating the numerous dietary laws and philosphies of food-righteousness (or should that be phood?). Life is strange and wonderful for sure. Peace to all, -- Goddard

Authors are among my favorite people because they write books. I joined Hobnob so I could hang out with them.

Happy to say I've met some splendid people and have been invited to do some reviews.

All good wishes for the holidays and new year 2013!

In re #159. And joy of the season to you too, friend. As to your reviews, in case you experience of life hasn't already shown you this, a quick survey of LT will remind you that the Internet, like paper, will put-up with anything that's written on it. Peace, -- Goddard

Blessings, Esta1923, for the season and may your reading adventures take you on interesting journeys.

E

Is it just me, or are a lot of people giving away their books for free lately? At least two authors have been very polite about it, though, which I have to say makes it a lot less annoying...

In re #162. I agree with you: there certainly are many Authors giving away their stuff. Make of THIS what you will: I have invited many LT Authors to exchange books, and only two have agreed; only one has even had the courtesy to say "No thanks". I am honestly puzzled by this. Obviously my stuff may not be of general interest (beyond simple curiosity), but why should another Author think his or hers is of interest to me -- except for MY honest curiosity? Being a friendly sort, I am reluctant to attribute this behaviour to what THE ONION called "toxic levels of self-involvement", but after a while, one wonders. Any ideas, anyone? Peace to all, -- Goddard

#162, #163 What about publishers / writers paying bloggers for reviews. These weird things happen when there is a supply glut.

!n re #164. Interesting point you raise, Chris. Quite coincidentally, I just left-off reading some stuff about your part of the world, some nature-writing which to my tired eyes makes me challenge you -- in a comradely fashion, of-course -- about the "supply glut". It's the old issue of quality vs quantity. There sure as shootin' is a superabundance of cheap starchy filler, and a pitiable scarcity of real nutrients. Not that it matters much to anybody but me, still I cannot see much difference between producers who do sleazy marketing and the fools who are attracted to these products by such sleazy marketing. Just in the spirit of scientific inquiry, when was the last time you met anybody who said they'd read a really good book which they'd become aware-of on a blog? And by "really good", I don't mean the proverbial "good read", but something which they might remember and be praising, say in two or three years. All my writing has been set with at-least that standard. Whether or not I have succeeded is another matter entirely, but I suspect the stuff of which you speak (with, I suspect, some suspicion at best, contempt at worst) is mostly conceived without a shadow of even that minimal goal. Now let's both hide, you in your wetland, and me on my mountain, and wait for the yowls of indignation from all the self-defined geniuses. Peace, -- Goddard. PS: I name no names, but I recently saw a blog which seemed suspiciously packed with contributions from the Author's students. If I am right about this, I am speechless to describe my scorn.

re #165, I admit that I'm still forming my opinions about all of this change we are undergoing. I know that is convenient to say, but it is true. I saw an interesting interview with Ben Folds Five the other day. Of course the music industry has undergone a similar revolution. Ben mentioned that now, he doesn't expect to make any money on album or single sales. He considers those to be advertising for concerts, where he makes his living. He also noted however, that he had the advantage of making a name for himself during the "album era" and that has afforded him the opportunity to shift his economic model successfully.

The measure of being a successful author (or musician) has changed. What is our version of the concert? Does the supply glut help discover new talent or does it discover talented marketers? Does the supply glut actually hide talent under the tide?

Personally, I've always loved the art of writing and been less interested in publishing itself.

Chris, I agree wholeheartedly with your comments above. Starting out, many years ago, I had the starry-eyed dreams of being on the bestseller lists, being interviewed on a late-night talk show, have a book signing tour and the reality of the writing industry and maturity changed my notions. I was ready to give up writing altogether, but then I realized how much more I enjoy it now that I've got life's experience to give me a grounding for the stories I've written and will write. As for marketing - there are only so many hours in a day. I do it when I can. I have now five books in print and available for sale, I'm in the middle of the lists. Yes, I am successful.

I don't write to get rich, so I am successful. haha I write for myself, not for money or fame, although I wouldn't turn either down. I love the magic of words and how they can be strung together to tell a story, evoke emotions, or bring the reader deep into the story. The story is everything and the way the characters tell it. I love writing and weaving a spell with words. Actually, I don't have much of a choice. Once a story grips me and the characters come to life, they won't leave me alone ... I must write.

re #168 So you don't publish your writing Gary?

It will be interesting to see if self-publishing will ever transform the art and not just the market.

Just to stir the pot a little: John Scalzi on making money as a writer:
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/01/25/a-quick-moment-of-financial-clarification/

re #170 the rush to publish can be our own worst enemy, can't it?

Marissa and Chris, I enjoyed Scalzi's article and his refreshing honesty. The instant gratification where it concerns publishing work is scary.

I would LIKE to make money with my writing; I doubt sincerely if I will ever become rich through it. This ceased to be a battle I could win or a ditch to die in for me.

# 169 Oh yes, I publish my work. I have 5 books published, but I've had my share of bad publishers. I am now with Double Dragon Publishing, and so far I'm pleased with them.

Wow, what great comments. This thread is better than reading drive-by authors' works. I'm a slow reader but a fast writer, so some might think I'm a drive-by walker. It's not much fun getting booted-off many of the threads because I have attempted to post blurbs about my mostly unread works, and almost completely unreviewed works before understanding the rules on this and other sites. I graduated from a large student body and the holiday email letters always read as if everyone is going places and having so much fun that I wonder why I enjoyed writing my three novels. Escape into the past, I guess is my answer. Well folks, this is the first time I have offered any books for FREE. What did I do in the Freebie world? one might wonder? Answer: I used all my currently allowed Kindle Free Days (now down to 8-10 Feb.) for Atlantic City Nazi (historical romance with action/adventure and you name it); then there is Slush Pile Inspector (written especially for writers who have at some time been rejected by one or more literary agents--that seldom happens); and finally, Tango Boat Dancers - you don't have to read it but then you won't know if you would've liked it. I have an easy way for you to locate my books to load them onto your Kindle from many places around the world. Just go to your search engine. Type in the following: "charles frankhauser amazon" then click on the cover images and you know the rest. I am pleased to chat with the many friendly knowledgable people on LT.

Amazon want readers to join Amazon Prime to get free books. That makes the books no longer free. There have been enough threads about Amazon's tactics already but I only want to spend money on books I want to read and not be sent advertising about things I do not want, which I guess will happen if I join Prime. Anyone had a different experience and thinks it is worth it?

^175 - I have Amazon Prime but for the free shipping, nothing to do with free books. I've had it for several years and it is definitely worth it to me as I buy a lot from Amazon, esp. around Christmas time.

It seems to me that we have wandered far, far away from the origin course of this thread. Time for a new one? Just a little thought, which I would have posted yesterday but for software problems btw me and LT. Given LT's corporate connection to LT, how long before we see "real" ads here? This is not to slam Tim S or Jeremy, but, in the immortal words of Thomas "Fats" Waller, "one never do know, do one?". Peace to all, -- G

Humans are apt to wander off course when they travel, in fact, I just made a Hollywood Stop at Hobnob to promote my author chat at Library Thing this week. I'll also be appearing elsewhere this week on an internet address near you in interviews and the www.cocktailsandbooks.com "Valentine's Day Love Letters Event," which I am excited about - it's a showcase of love letters between characters in author's books. I've chosen my latest pair - Alice Martin and Quinn Radcliffe from the "Midwinter Sonata" series. Those of you who have read my work will know them from books 1 and 2, Tallis' Third Tune and Scarborough.

Okay, the light's changed, so I'm putting it into first and cruising on by....

Cheers, E

Dear Ellen, praise to you for still drivin' stick. Major scolding for writing while driving: we don't want to lose you. On the Fourteenth, please recall that in addition to the Feast of the Lovers, we -- or at-least some of us -- also commemorate the anniversary of Jack Benny's thirty-ninth birthday. Meanwhile, what do you think of the theory on the Group Happy Heathens to the effect that the Bishop of Rome is hanging it up out of jealousy that he has been upstaged by a dead King? Unreconstructed but still harmless, -- G

When I joined LT, I did not intend to be a drive-by author. I've read many of the threads and commented here and there, but have not yet figured out how to navigate and use the site with anything close to ease. One large handicap is time. I'm a business owner and teacher as well as a writer, and learning a new site, quite simply, demands that I spend time poking esoterically worded buttons in specific sequences and then remember what I did when something finally works. That doesn't happen, so I peck and poke again the next time I visit. (Me and anything electronic don't make good bedfellows.) If a site requires that I perform an activity more complicated than "log in" and "log out," I'm pretty much lost. However, in my defense, I've never interrupted an on-going conversation to insert self-promotion. I join sites for the ideas and information I gain from them. As for my books, they will sell themselves on their merits or they won't, and nothing I do in marketing will make my books better than they are. Obviously, I support myself through my outside jobs and not through writing. If that situation changes, I'd be a happy woman, but it's not something I'm expecting. Not when there are so many authors far more brilliant than I.

Welcome Kimberly. Just join in when you can. Remember one thing here: there may be many authors here, but only YOU can write the book in your head.

And quite frankly, Kimberly, you don't sound like a drive-by author to me. Annoying and insensitive self-promotion is sort of a requirement for being one... As well as not posting anything else. Sorry to disappoint you!

#182: Darn! I can't even make the top 10 losers list! Well, I'll keep trying.

Seriously though, thank you for that welcome. It's true what they say, there are some really nice folks here.

I am loving this thread. Very entertaining. I just wish I had the wit exhibited by most of the contributors. Bravo.

One of the drive-bys from LT stopped at my blog and revved their engine a bit. Oh my, it seems that I am a rude person and full of myself...so glad of that. I was tired of being a nice person to everyone.

I love that delete SPAM button...

?!? Really? Had you said something to him/her? Or are you just a rude person in general? *wink*

#186: I suggested that the person use the proper message board for promotion rather than the board the advertisement was posted on since it was likely to get flagged. I was trying to help the person. As for being rude, that depends on the hour, how much caffeine I have ingested and which of my three tall children is harassing me about my hobbit size. ; )

> 187: How horrible of you! Tsk, some people just don't get it...

I had to laugh when I viewed the most recent post by what I consider a classic "Drive By" author. The author's post asked for reviews and suggested anyone interested to make contact through their website, because she doesn't go to LT very often ... (just to promote I guess). Apparently she didn't see anything wrong with drive by promoting, and I have little chance of offending her either if she doesn't come here often.

Was asked by that same drive-by in #187 why it was okay for me to mention the new cover on one of my older titles, the read an e-book event, etc., and not okay for the drive-by.

Gee, maybe because I practically LIVE at this board and others like it, getting to know people, trading witticisms, barbs, praising and being a shoulder to cry upon, getting scolded, being Ellen.

I've blocked this person now from Facebook, Twitter, and my Blog and E-Mail accounts.

Yikes, Ellen. Your drive-by would be much better served putting that energy into researching better promotional efforts than stalking you. Don't blame you for blocking!

^189 GaryBabb, I felt the exact same way when I saw that post!

Sigh. I dislike repeating myself ALMOST as much as some of you dislike reading me do it . . . BUT . . . Simple sanity-defense: before responding to any suspicious post, check that person's Profile. Recenty arrived, with few or no books catalogued, and listed as Author? Block that person and don't bother to read posts. Life's too shport. After all, we could be putting that saved time into reading each others' books. Mea culpa -- but I couldn't resist throwing that in. Maybe we should offer a prize when this already over-lomg thread reached 200 posts. A can of Cling Peaches to #200: I'll do it, and perhaps more, if only this discussion goes away. Peace and love to you all, trotz alledem. -- G

G, this person has a large catalogue and has been on LT for as long as I have, but rarely posts and joins in discussions - this person followed me from Amazon and Goodreads as a 'friend,' and was indeed friendly until I made the comment that there were particular boards for marketing books here and the post might get flagged. It was a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation.

#193 Why should this thread go away as long as it remains pertinent, which sadly it is. Besides, I like Cling Peaches. (smiling)

Ellen, maybe you should invest in a Silver Bullet ... just in case. hehe

New authors come on LT to find readers because they think that anyone with an extensive library could be interested in their works.
It is only when we become involved with the discussions that we find there are far more interesting uses for the site and selling books can best be done elsewhere, preferably by personal effort and that the interaction with both writers and readers makes the site so fascinating.
I won't try to reach 200. It would be too far for you to send peaches!

G, as long as the cling peaches are in water and not syrup - I love them on top of cottage cheese.

I came as a new author to LT and stayed because of the people.

Are we close to 200 yet? I don't begrudge the new author the opportunity for marketing that LT offers, I just don't like the arrogance of some - and I think (perhaps wrongly, mea culpa) that arrogance would be with them in any field they choose.

And I'm posting this just to annoy G. There! 200.

I just finished another article for my blog tour and now I'm tucking in for the night - have to be up early and write another blog article, show up for the Sunday job (which I love)...g'night.

I am incapable of being annoyed: Weltschmerz yes, kakoethes scribendi yes, Dutch Elm Disease yes -- but mere annoyance rolls off me like good sense off the current Presidential Administration. Anyway, I will be arranging soon for fruit to be delivered by bicycle courier (no joke) from across the Bay. And yes, we all stay for the people. Surely it's not for Fame, Fortune, and a Worry-Free Old Age.

Drats! I missed the 200 mark. Of course Ellen had to make four post to get it. hehe

Harry, I agree with your opinion of the current administration. Sometime back I wrote a book about it, Bathroom Politics. Now I'm wondering if this would be considered anarchist genre. Hummmm

The only thing that annoys me about you two, G & G, is your political preference, but I love you anyway...

How, dear & estimable friend, have you managed to get even fifty pages into my book? Your tolerance is truly the stuff of legend. Perhaps you're a little young to to remember Micky & Sylvia. Gary probably has the required mileage (haha), but regardless, they put it very well: Love is strange. Sorry not to write more, but I have to make sure my pantry full of tinned fruit is sand-bagged against possible drone-strikes. . . . While is does have a certain resonance, I doubt that "G & G" has much marketing potential for anything I have to offer. Still, it's nice to have this loveable gang in which to be . . . well, whatever it is that "we is". PS: have you somehow gotten the idea that I am on the political Right? It's true that my sainted Grandfather -- for whom I am named -- was so conservative that he wouldn't spend a Roosevelt dime. He didn't believe that "That Man's" face should be seen in public. My Mother shared many of her Father's political opinions, but was more of a pragmatist, and was happy to glom onto the cans full of ten-cent pieces her pappy had withdrawn fronm circulation. Anyway, their ways, to put it mildly, have not been my ways. But that, as they say, is another story, which may soon see the light of day in my memoir provisionally entitled THE POLISH BLUES. I would have preferred SIXTY YEARS A NITWIT, but the incomparable SJ Perelman used a line like that while a was a wee little skraeling. Peace, and love to all. -- G. PS: for those who used the RCL today, why is it that in this day of verbal purity, that we don't have the equivalent term "prodiguy" to match "prodigal". Truly a burning issue of our time.

Hey Ellen, How were those peaches? You guys should be glad I'm not the one that hit 200. I live in Georgia (the peach state), so my standards are pretty high when it comes to those things.

Clyde, Still haven't seen the flash of sunlight on the can as they hurl across country - and I'm hoping they'll be in water. I'm always the one sticking a toe over the line and saying, "I dare ya!"

Ellen, you want us to throw peaches at you? If I don't have any peaches can I throw tomatoes? hehe

Hmmmmm, tomatoes really stain...uh, nope. In the interest of this thread, I'll be blog touring all week with some reviews of my work apparently being published. Blog touring is like drive-by activity, only you're invited to drive through.

Do we start a new thread after 200? I spent yesterday recording a magazine in which I read some of our poetry and a page of one novel. If I spend more time recording than writing I feel less of an author and more a promoter.As long as you still allow me on here I'll be content!