RIP Hobnob

Many of us helped to create this group of "Hobnob with Authors", and for a long time it was a very active group. We were able to discuss and promote our books within reason to willing readers/reviewers, but additionally, we had many on-going discussions. There was a purpose and attraction for being here. There was also a camaraderie among the members. This all seems to be gone now.

The downfall of this group is mainly the fault of the many other groups, and I might quickly say, "I don't blame them." They began to direct the "Drive-By Authors" to this group. They didn't want them disrupting their groups. Hell, this group doesn't want them, but now we have them, all of them. Now, point of fact, they have taken over, and they are ALL (95%) we have participating in the group. This is sad but true.

Few come to this group anymore because there is little discussion to attract them and far to many self-promotions (Buy Me ... Buy Me) to drive them away.

Hobnob with Authors IS dead ... D E A D! (RIP)

Do we want to try and save it or let it die? Can anything be done?

Of course it is up to authors to decide, but I do want to add my thoughts, please. I am an elderly person who loves books and the people who write them.

I joined Hobnob and have had the pleasure of your company. I will miss it if it goes away.

(My one truly disturbing encounter was with someone who misuses the site, others have welcomed me and shared their work.)

I'll be watching your discussion now.

We seem awfully active for a dead group.

Did we get zombified or something?

Sorry. If you don't see it, I can't explain it any better.

I newly joined this group. Although there are quite a few annoying drive-by promotional threads, there have also been a few nice discussions in the short time since I've joined. And it seems to me (I set all promotion-buy me-stuff to ignore, so I cannot go back and count) that half of the annoying threads are by 1 person. Of course, I don't know what this group used to be like. It does seem to me that most people active in this group are authors, and that there are not so many readers, but maybe I'm wrong about that...

>1 GaryBabb: Shame on you Gary for scaring me!

When I had time, I looked forward everyday to the discussions in this group. I liked hearing how authors worked and being able to ask questions. I discovered a few new authors here whom I follow and read their new works.

But my job and life got crazy, so I stopped posting. I sporadically read. But there does seem more 'spamming' now than in the past. (Yes, I know technically an author can't 'spam' here, but in my mind, it's spam.) So many of these "Buy my new book" and pseudo-replies that I stopped coming.

I guess if I and others want this group to remain "Hobnob with Authors" and not to become "Spam by Authors", we need to work on getting some interesting discussions going.

Perhaps this part of the group description needs to be stressed to new author members: Authors are encouraged to chat with members, not just copy and paste blurbs about their books.

I post fairly frequently on LT and often enjoy talking to other authors in real life but have avoided this group for precisely that reason. Too much self-promotion, not enough real conversation.

Of course it doesn't have to be that way.

Perhaps an alternative kind of thread could exist where it was assumed to be bad manners to speak specifically of your own work, in the same way that you wouldn't dream of walking into a crowd of strangers and thrusting your children's baby pictures under their noses.

>8 krolik:
Excellent analogy, those baby pictures!

>8 krolik: The 'bad manners' thread has been tried and while it siphoned off some of the self-promotion, other authors just ignored it and posted self-promotion threads (sometimes with multiple self-replies).

I've got a very long list of authors who do that sort of crap. It's my "DO NOT BUY THEIR BOOKS" list.
I'm an editor, and have turned down work from a few of them as well.

Yes but creating threads where it is considered bad manners not to talk about your work seems kind of counter-productive to me. This group was created precisely because that is the already case almost everywhere else in LT, and it was making authors uncomfortable. This is supposed to be the group where authors CAN talk about their own works.

If it really is me talking about my books and trying to encourage other people to talk about theirs that is perceived to be the problem, I'll leave. I don't have any reason to hang out here if I can't talk about my books, I'll hang out over in Science Fiction and Fantasy Fans instead.

But I somehow thought it was someone else that everyone was so annoyed about.

And for dealing with those sorts of problems, I think we need an active maintainer who knows they are the one responsible for taking action, and even better would be someone who actually has the ability to do something about it other than complain. Because we've already complained, and complained and complained. Frankly, I'm almost as tired of us complaining about "spam" as I am of the "spam" itself.

::clears throat::
I'd be willing to take on the role of maintainer, if nobody else the group likes better can be found.

#12 No @LShelby - everything I can recall that you have done and said in Hobnob has been absolutely fine.

As far as I am concerned only @Uvi_Poznansky is really causing a problem: with multiple pure-self-promotion threads.

Other "post-once and never-seen-again" authors are not ideal - particularly when then are lots in a short period, but they do not turn the group into a wasteland

> 12

I think we need an active maintainer who knows they are the one responsible for taking action, and even better would be someone who actually has the ability to do something about it other than complain.

There is, in fact, a group administrator, @jbd1. There really isn't much that a group administrator can do, though. They don't have any authority to ban someone from the group. They can take a group private, and allow people to join only by invitation, but that's a pretty drastic step.

>13 TimSharrock: I agree with your statement:
"As far as I am concerned only Uvi_Poznansky is really causing a problem: with multiple pure-self-promotion threads."

So far no one has responded to her and that is a measure of the group's strength.

I am not an author but as reader and reviewer am very interested in what authors do. I hope the group survives.

Finally, someone says that name that has been annoying me...and she's not just going it here. She's going it on GR too, which is more acceptable because there are distinct sections in groups for PR, but when you don't contribute to anything but doing PR it's still not acceptable there. It's not just one thread either, there are 5 or 6 of them where there are the "wonderful" reviews.

When I see her name as the poster I just skip over it and open the threads like this one.

>14 lilithcat: jbd1 is the official maintainer, yes. But only because someone had to take the job when the original maintainer left. He is a member of the staff, is not active in the group, and has informed me that he cannot commit to anything as time consuming as making sure links to important threads get properly maintained in the group description, (and therefore he is unwilling to add any thread links to the description).

He has expressed a willingness to turn the job over to someone who actually is an active participant in the group. If we decide to choose such a person, we're supposed to send him links to the relevant threads so he can keep an eye on the choosing process.

I had this conversation with him some time back, but at that time I wasn't healthy enough to feel up to committing to continuing a conversation, let alone maintain a group. I did bring the subject up in the group, but nothing happened.

If nobody else thinks its worth the bother to change the group maintainer, then I suppose I could volunteer to politely tell people that their behavior does not fall within the group guidelines, and is annoying other members. I carried out a similar responsibility in another group once. We found that it worked better to have a couple people assigned to carry out such duties than to leave it to the group at large to respond or not as the case might be. Either people got ignored when they shouldn't have been, or they got flamed far worse than they deserved by people who had seen one too many similar postings and were in a bad mood that day.

But messages like that are really only going to have an effect on repeat offenders.

If you want to have an effect on drive-by posters you need to catch them BEFORE they post. That means whatever we try pretty much has to be in the the group description. It's the only place we have to catch their attention before they reach the "start new thread" button.

a "connected maintainer" would be good, I think

Thank God others are pointing out the main offender! I was beginning to wonder if there was something wrong with me.

A thought: maybe instead of being passive, we should all respond to their posts by expressing our offense at their abuse.

Question: Is it possible to slightly alter the rules of this group and bring back the Flagging to the group. We could police our own group to oust the major offenders? This gets a little sticky, however, because we actually want self-promotions. It's the "Drive Bys" we object to, and by this I mean those that DON'T participate in any of the discussions or offer any attempt to join in, other than self-promotions. Just a thought.

Has anyone ever left a comment for this person, directing her attention to the language in the group description that I quote here: http://www.librarything.com/topic/144785#3696835

I seriously thought I was the only one annoyed with all her posts. It is ridiculous how many posts a day I started seeing from her. I am just a reader, not a writer, and I follow this group for the discussions that are posted here. So far all interactions I have had on hobnob have been great but she has driven me to seriously consider whether to leave the group. It has to stop. I would also like to see a maintainer to maintain the group, I can see how it would be beneficial.

I agree with dpappas, admittedly, since the self-promo sky rocketed I have been on LT once every 2-3 weeks instead of every week.
Maybe a simple response with a link to her would help her understand? It's hard to say how to do it. I was once called a drive-by accidentally, so it's hard to judge straight off if someone misunderstands the rules or if they truly don't plan on adding something of value to the group. I would say this particular author is most certainly a drive-by though. She has been doing this for months with no other contributions.

"If you want to have an effect on drive-by posters you need to catch them BEFORE they post. That means whatever we try pretty much has to be in the the group description. It's the only place we have to catch their attention before they reach the "start new thread" button."

I know I'm a cynic when it comes to people's behavior, but I can't see how changing the group description will stop certain drive-by posters. They either won't read it or will read it and ignore it.

The only way to change such a person's behavior is to not allow the person to post in the first place, and that opens a huge can of worms.

In the other groups they Flag the poster. Why can't we?

Is there a staff member that can respond to this?

> 25

Messages can be flagged for the following: LibraryThing prohibits personal attacks, name-calling, commercial solicitation and spam, but not much else. Disagreeing with the content of a message is not grounds for flagging.

So the question is whether these "drive-by" posts constitute "commercial solicitation" or "spam". The difficulty as I see it is that the group description states Unlike the rest of the groups, this is a "safe space" for authors to promote and converse about their books without fear of being accused of spamming. I don't know how you tell an author that it's okay to promote books in this group and then turn around and flag the posts as spam.

>26 lilithcat:
Exactly the problem. The group description needs to specify what actions are acceptable and what aren't, subtly encourage the acceptable actions, and reopen up the possibility for the group to actually express disapproval of that which just isn't tolerable. The current description is too vague. It ties our hands, so to speak.

My recommendation would be to state specifically that book promotions belong in the book promotion thread(s), and prove the link(s), so that nobody has to go hunting for the right thread, or wonder if this is the right thread or not. Basically not giving them any excuse to post a promo anywhere else.

At that point, if someone does start a thread that is nothing but a book promo, we can flag it. It's probably also a good idea to include a nice polite note explaining that although promoting your books is allowed (even encouraged) here, you need to place your promos in the appropriate thread(s) as explained in the group description -- which they really should have read before starting any threads, maybe they'll remember to do so next time.

Meanwhile we can all continue to discuss things that are actually worth discussing, including each other's books... all it takes is us having the writing skills necessary to not make our discussion thread opening messages look like drive-by book promos. Which I'm sure everyone tries to do anyway, because we all know that those sorts of posts get ignored.

I don't expect this to eliminate drive-by posters, because there is no way to eliminate drive-by posters. But I think it might reduce the number of spammy threads to more manageable numbers, and make the group appear more welcoming to those who really do come here to hobnob.

But hey, it's just my recommendation. If the majority of the group prefers some other approach, I'd be willing to try that, instead.

>27 LShelby: "My recommendation would be to state specifically that book promotions belong in the book promotion thread(s), and prove the link(s), so that nobody has to go hunting for the right thread, or wonder if this is the right thread or not. Basically not giving them any excuse to post a promo anywhere else. "

Even as a non-writer, I see two problems with this suggestion. First, one basic part of this group is to allow self-promotion of books. Putting all those announcements into one thread would pretty much guarantee that the promotions would be rarely looked at by most people. For an author trying to market his/her book, there would be little point in doing this. New authors may or may not join and stay.

Second, while this is my opinion and I suspect others feel the same, I don't mind the one-off "Hey, I have a new book!" thread. Again, this is part of the function of this group. What is annoying is the multiple, repetitive, self-replies postings all about the same book, all without any discussion. Uvi_Poznansky is the present 'problem', but there have been several others in the last year that spring to mind and there will be more I'm sure.

I go back to my original suggestion -- we need to work on getting some interesting discussions going. These discussions will drowned out the self-promotion.

#21 For what it's worth, I have attempted to tell her that she was in breach of protocol. I wasn't quite as rude as I might have been. And the only reason I haven't mentioned her name is because I'm never sure of the ettiquette with these sorts of things. (Offending her wasn't the concern. Annoying you guys was.)

Maybe we should try to spam her? Everyone leave a comment saying some variation on " your posts that make no attempt to do anything but self promote are annoying. Please desist." One of us, she may will ignore, but a whole bunch of us repeatedly ...?

>12 LShelby:
Sorry if my earlier statement in >8 krolik: sounded too stark.

I guess the issue is less a matter of talking about one's work than promoting it.

People can benefit from hearing about others' experiences. Sure.

But listening to someone pitch their work blindly is something else altogether. And in any case, it's almost always counter-productive. It turns people off; it doesn't sell books. Writers who do this not only waste other people's time; they waste their own time.

Perhaps asking people to limit themselves to one promotional thread per book, and updating it if they have news, like appearances or awards or reviews?

# 31 Not a bad idea.

Interesting comments and discussion.

>31 Marissa_Doyle: That sounds good, then we would only have to ignore one thread, if it's a person that we know is spamming and thus isn't adding anything beneficial to the group.

Marissa: I like your idea. And, frankly, if they want to chat up their work, that's where "Writers Rag and Brag" or is it "Writers Brag and Rag" comes handy - it's okay to talk about your work there.

Okay, to move us right along....I just finished a book by neurologist Eben Alexander MD called "Proof of Heaven," which was wonderful and scary at the same time. He wrote of his near-death/after life experience while in a coma. What gave me the chills was that what he wrote about I've heard almost exactly the same thing from patients that I was helping as a chaplain in the ER. And coming from a scientist...well, just comforting to know that you can meld science and faith.

#31 I really like your idea. I'll lend my support to that idea.

#34 I've been wanting to read that book but haven't yet gotten around to it. Your description of it only makes me want to read it even more. It just sounds so fascinating.

#34: It's a short book and Dr. Alexander doesn't sound like a starry-eyed, feel-good sort of person. He was a no-nonsense doctor with a sense of humor and compassion who changed his mind about NDEs when he went through one himself.

> 28
I agree that putting all promos in one thread practically guarantees that hardly anyone would read that thread. But then, I don't read any of the promos anymore anyway. Too many, to mixed, hardly anything that looks like my kind of book. I stop seeing any reason to bother even looking.

What I think would get me to actually look at some of the promos, would be if we collected the promos by genre. If book promos came pre-sorted into stuff I'm more likely to like and stuff I'm almost certain not to like, I think I might actually take a look at the "more likely" selections, instead of just ignoring everything.

But the more promo by genre threads there are, the more likely they are to fall down the thread list, and the less likely they are to be used. UNLESS they are linked in the group description -- then it doesn't matter how far they've scrolled down the group since the last time they were used. But without a maintainer willing to try it, I suppose there's no point in me mentioning the idea again.

The one promo thread per author seems a very reasonable rule to me.

Well, maybe if the author put thier name and genre in the name of the thread? I.e Cassandra Giovanni, YA Romance Genre? For me it would be harder to be more specific than that because I don't write within one sub genre. My first novel is post-apocalyptic, my second is suspense and right now, I'm working on a New Adult paranormal novel.
I think just speaking on the threads may help garner readership without actually actively shoving it down others on the boards throats!
(Not that I didn't use the promo thread just in case!)

Gary, were you hoping for more discussions about HOW we work? Did you want to find out whether we had noticed any changes in punctuation rules? Do you put thoughts into italics or parenthasis? Is there a perfect font size? Are books in the first person more involving than those in the third person? I'd be happy to enter into discussions on any of those subjects. Don't kill off the group. It is bad enough that the writer/reader group seems to have stalled without losing this one as well!

# 39
I'm not trying to kill off this group, nor do I have any control at all over it. I share your concern about the general lack of discussion and proliferation of self-promotion. I will admit I intended to shock this group to action, and I believe to that extent I was successful. This group is coming alive again, and I love it. I've already been smacked around, and I deserve it. (smiling)

As to your questions: I learn about changes when I'm corrected. haha Italics should be used to indicate thoughts. This I leaned by being corrected. I have found New Times Roman # 12 is the most requested font size by publishers.

Now, your question about third person versus first person is very intriguing, and I have mixed emotions. I have mostly written in third person, but my last book was written in first person. I chose this style because it allowed me to better present internal thoughts, and I was only dealing with a single perspective. This style I believe would get cumbersome if multiple POVs were involved. What is your views on this?

I'm trying to improve my reviews and found that I gave more stars to books written in the first person. I obviously like to get involved with the main character. In fact, if the book is a crime novel and the hero/heroine is a detective I find I lose interest quite quickly. This must be because the author is concentrating on the plot rather than the characters.
As an author I found writing in the first person more difficult.
Incidently, on checking on prevous ratings I find I don't agree with what I put. Some books I rated highly have been completely forgotten, while others have stayed in my imagination and , I suppose, deserved more'stars.'

How about " This" or 'This' for speech?

#41 Found your comment most interesting. I did a blog post about first person POV that you may find interesting. Previous and later posts around this one also deal with point of view. http://randyattwood.blogspot.com/2012/06/first-person-point-of-view-in-crazy.htm...

My last two books have been in the first person because they both deal with NDE (near death experiences) and the 'afterlife' in a fantasy vein, but I prefer to write in the third person - it gives me more flexibility with POV and story development. Writing them in the first person was an accident that worked for me. Now, the style that really made me crazy was Hillary Mantel's in "Wolf Hall" and "Bring Up the Bodies." I think when I have more time and patience I'll revisit those books.

Oldstick, regarding my reviews of books, I've realized that a book I thought was stupendous when I was in my 20s is not all that and a bag of chips while approaching 60. Example: Erich Segal's "Love Story." That came to mind because I found the copy my high school sweetheart's aunt gave me for Christmas back in 1970-71. And "Jonathan Livingston Seagull." I still have high regard for Tolkien.

I prefer first person both in my own writing and reading. I've found some authors that have skill in 3rd person, but I always have trouble getting into the character.
Gary, it's funny that New Times Roman is so popular, as it is the hardest font on the eyes. I can't stand it myself and being self-pub, I use Palatino Linotype. It's similar to New Times Roman but has softer edges.
Italics are good if used sparingly and to prove a point. Visually, as with New Times Roman, large quantities are harsh on the eyes. I learned that from an English teacher in my past. I find I agree with the theory, although, I believe it's merely an opinion.

Hello all! I'm new to the group. Trying to get my feet (I mean fingers) wet here. So let me jump in, if you don't mind. ..Some of my books is in first-person POV but most are in third person omniscient because I like to get into my characters' minds. As far as font, I like Calibri or Arial.

Yes, Calibri is my set font for all my business documents as well!

I just thought of something that would be a nice feature to have on LT-- the ability to make folders for threads. That way they could be grouped by topic. It can get overwhelming to have to look through 10 bad threads to get to a real one.

# 44

I have gotten used to New Times Roman # 12. I only started using it because many of the publishers' submittals policies required it. Now I'm accustomed to it and use it exclusively. I use italics mostly to indicate thoughts. I know it's frowned upon by many, but when I want to emphasize a word, I capitalize it. To me using italics to make a word stand out tends to make it less visible. I not sure what the standard of thought is on this.

The best way to learn the conventions of thought representation--there are a number of options, none of them mutually exclusive--is simply to look closely at a writer you admire and observe how he or she did it. Read for technique, not just story. A person can learn a lot through imitation and there's no point in trying to re-invent the wheel.

For most places, submissions in fonts other than Times New Roman will appear amateurish to editors. I'm not saying it's "good" or "bad;" it just is. There's no need to fret about it, and certainly no need to lose time worrying about it, when time can be better spent getting down to the real work of writing.

Times Roman replaced the Courier typewriter type font. I leave changing the font to the editor and publisher once the editing and formatting is down.

Well, NTR is better than Courier, that's for sure.

I have separate threads for each of my 3 books, and I do my promos only in those threads. Perhaps, and this is a radical notion, this whole forum should be cleansed and started over with a specific format in mind. Each author has one topic which bears her/his name. Any promo the author wants to do for any of book is only under his/her topic.

I think it is easier to keep track of LTs forum chatter, but I think GR does it better in that there are many groups which have a self contained self-promo section within them.

>52 NineTiger: That's where folders inside the forum to delegate different topics would work miracles for LT, in my humble opinion.

@53 Agree :)

Yep We're DEAD!

No we are NOT.

We're not dead; we're just mostly dead.

We're pining for the Fjords.

Friends, now my Twitter page has been taken over by tweets by the Unrelentless, Unrepentent Drive-By. I have blocked the person.

By the by, I've been frozen in grief and dispair since Friday's horrific events. It's supposed to be my Sunday off and I should be relaxing. I'm not. I will walk around the corner to the parish hall for the Christmas Basket Auction we hold every year and then take a bike ride to clear away the nightmares and maybe come back and write something happy.

This morning I started a subscription to Adobe's InDesign, so I can start learning how to format ebooks and do a bit of marketing. I also have PhotoShop InTouch for my tablet.

The great experiment is about to begin....mwwahahah...

Nope, nope, NOPE!

One foot in front of the other and eyes straight ahead on the first star on the right.

Ellen -- I have been teaching myself InDesign for a while now and love it. Unfortuantely, I don't have the time to devote to it as much as I would like.

As for Gary's 'Hobnob is dead' -- he seems to like to say outrageous things and try to direct everything to the way he thinks it should run. Unfortuantely, it's not going to go that way. I still stop by Hobnob every few days and sometimes add things in. I think adding more positive, instead of negative, posts might be more helpful than complaints about what it isn't doing, though.

Just a thought.

Gary is just trying to keep us going. Somehow Librarything seems less important when world events show us what really matters, but we might bounce back after Christmas.

Agreed, Oldstick.

Hobnob is a great concept. I've found very few places that authors and readers can speak to each other. As a writer, I find it so exciting and such an honor to be able to interact here. Why not state as part of the rules that the idea is to learn from each other rather than to promote our own books. I think most authors would be fine with that. Perhaps we're reacting to mixed messages that simply need to be clarified.

Agreed, Pletcha. Here, authors are not banned from talking about their work, and readers can pose all sorts of questions. Love it.

And so, readers, what book don't you want to see in 2013? This is a preventative measure - if you don't want it, I won't write it. : )

I guess I tend to think saying positive things works better than negative -- but that's just an attitude difference. There's no doubt his 'doom' posts do draw attention! LOL

# 62 (As for Gary's 'Hobnob is dead' -- he seems to like to say outrageous things and try to direct everything to the way he thinks it should run.)

I plead guilty to saying outrageous things. Sometimes it takes outrageous and shocking things to wake us up. My thrust and desire was to get us back to discussions. I do think it worked, since we have 66 posts in this thread.

My apologies to those that think I am trying to assert my values on others. I think we all do that a little, even you. Ironically, you seem to want to impose your values on how you think this group should run, and that's OK. It keeps the discussion going.

I have just been given a copy of 'The Artist's Way ' by Julia Cameron. So far, I am resisting the premise that my creativity needs unblocking. I've looked at the reviews and am amazed at the positive reactions. Anyone else with an opinion?

Well, not for The Artist's Way, although I know of dozens of people (mostly artists) who swear it's the most inspirational thing they've ever read.
I "read" (audio book) her book The Right to Write, for which I wrote a review here on Library Thing. You can read it if you want, but in short, it was horrible on so many levels, it wells to my consciousness at times when I think about the really mean kids I went to grade school with, or the motorcycle accident, or my ex, infernos...

Oh, that was badly worded on my part, Gary! Sorry!

I think I see why my attitude about 'negative versus positive' is different from almost everyone elses, and it has to do with a site I own. There I spend a lot of time encouraging new writers to post, to take part and to also encourage each other. While we don't allow spam -- you have to be active on the site before you say 'go here, look at this' -- we do like people to talk about their work. I've found over the years that just getting people to speak up is sometimes the hardest part. So I tend towards the 'nudge' idea for encouraging new authors to do things differently rather than 'pounding' them, if you see what I mean.

After some time, I do find it is easier to participate on GR than here on LT. I feel like I am walking a mine field sometimes in LT. I think that is also because GR is set up more as a reader site, and this is a library catalog site, in essence. The mission is very different.

MGP

# 71

No offense taken, zette. I value your opinion. The more opinions expressed adds to the discussion and understanding for all, even the positive ones. hehe

# 72

I too have felt that participating here in LT is a mine field experience, and in all honesty, it is. There are only a very few groups I even feel safe to post in, and "Hobnob" is one of them. I guess that is why I found it so disheartening to see the "drive-bys" abusing their last safe haven for discussions.

#72 Indeed, I agree totally. GR is better for interacting with readers for me, and I personally, enjoy the set up a whole lot better. It's organized better, and there are sections for just promoting your book and there are some great groups that sponsor interviews, giveaways, and book discussions meant to help indie authors. I've found these very encourage because I am interacting actively with readers in a way that is easier.

I guess it's time to resurrect this thread again, because it appears the group is dying ... AGAIN.

I tried Goodreads but I couldn't find my way around. I have been sampling a book for new mums to see how advice has changed in 40 years and I can't find one that isn't scary. I wanted to help my daughter in law but it seems they get all their advice off the internet these days. I know that won't interest Gary but if he comes up with a subject for discussion, I'll try to join in. The only other subject that worried me was the demise of HMV. Where CDs go, there go books!

*Insert spammy post about my books*

Buy them all TODAY!

oldstick, Don't feel lonesome. I can't figure out Goodreads either.

Since I used the word "Resurrect" I thought I would share the following. Resurrection:

A paster was preaching to the young in regular service. He asked the children what they knew about resurrection. One shy little boy raised his hand and said, "I know if a resurrection last over four hours you need to call a doctor."

It took ten minutes for the laughter to run its course before the paster could continue the service.

When I ran out of discussion points on Hobnob I found Crambo and began to play. Now they have mentioned rhyming sites it has ruined the experience. Is there nothing we can't find the answer to on the internet?

#76 The only other subject that worried me was the demise of HMV. Where CDs go, there go books!

I share your concern, especially as the best bookshop in Dublin, Hodges Figgis, is owned by HMV. :-(

I also share your confusion with Goodreads.

It's been six months since I started this RIP Hobnob with Authors, and eventually became fed up with all the "Drive-By" and left. Now six months later it's even worse. So, I thought I would drop by and clean up the grave some. I guess everyone decided it's not worth saving and left it to the bullies and drive-bys. Too bad.

Hi Gary,

it's not really any worse than it was, I don't think. It seems to go in waves. And our most egregious offender in the driveby stakes seems to have departed.

Maybe we're going about this all wrong. Maybe we should turn it into a game -- drive-by tag. First person to tag a drive-by post (how, I don't know -- by replying "tag!" or "drive-by" or whatever we decide on to the post?) gets a point. The one who bags the most drive-bys by the end of the year is the winner, and is crowned Hobnob Gamekeeper of the Year?

Hi Gary,

Since you have always been respectful and honest with me, so here's my views.

I liked talking to authors about their books and working methods. I find it interesting and since I'm not a writer, I don't understand some of the methods, ideas, etc. So, I ask questions -- some good, some bad.

I was, however, discouraged and upset by the attitude a few, but vocal writers have toward us non-writers. Writers are not superior to us 'lowly readers' -- the roles are just different. But after being called a 'lemming' and having a question or two responded to with condescedence, I gave up trying to create any reader-writer dialog.

Linda

Gary
I'm relatively new here. Approx 3 months or so. I think it goes in waves too. You know, you and others created a great interactive online community and other people want to be a part of it and that attracts vendors. That's true of anything. It happens to every great online community and every great town.
Rather than giving up or worse, disappearing for six months and hoping things just magically change, why don't you continue creating great content with those of us who want to participate at that level? I mean, you must care otherwise you would have just left without the eulogies. I've been to a whole bunch of author sites and none of them are perfect. Some are cloistered. Some have no authors at all. This has a good mix. Jerks, vendors, authors, spam, and occasional brilliance. Just like real life.

Anyway, if you decide to stay away, thanks for helping start a good thing. Hopefully, HobNob won't fall completely to the spam. But if it does, it will die a natural death.

>84 LMHTWB:: I remember the "lemming" comment, because I made it. It was NOT directed at you, personally, nor many readers on these boards at Library Thing, but the many, many, readers who read something only because it's at the top of a list in the NYT or at Amazon and that is the only criteria for judging it to be a book worth reading. I'm sorry if you took it personally.

As for condescension - I've been staying away from LT because I've discovered it really isn't a safe place for authors.

I do wish you well.

crtozier #85 I couldn't agree more.

>86 EllenLEkstrom: Your comment was referring to readers who bought and read books without looking at the actual book based on a review. I've done that -- ergo, lemming. I also read Booker Prize winners only because they won the Booker Prize. Ditto the Indies. Ditto the Pulitzer. Ditto the Euler... Lemming again!

If authors don't or won't respect readers, why should readers participate in Hobnob? Why should readers respect authors?

Seriously, how many readers -- non-writers, non-want-to-be-writers -- are actually here? Do authors want readers here to interact with? Or are readers a necessary evil?

LMHTWB Wow! You always spark interesting discussions. I've been accused of saying some outrageous things just to stir the discussions. Well, I do plead guilty to that, but it still amazes me how many of the "drive-by" authors don't see the disservice to the group and to themselves. Drive-By authors = someone that post a buy me post and doesn't stay long enough to join the discussions.

Of course authors want readers here to interact with. Actually, people desire people of interest to discuss and interact with. This was the intent in the beginning, but it is the discussions that keep the group alive (authors and readers), not the "I wrote a book! Buy me." When members checks in to the group and sees little or no discussions, only Buy me posts, I strongly believe that they just keep going. Personally, I view these self-serving posts as disrespectful to the readers and authors that do attempt to discuss various topics. Yes, this group is a safe place to post the self-promotions, but it is also a meeting place to get to know others and let them know you. I know I would and do buy books from authors I feel like I know and seem like-minded.

You sum it up when you ask, "Why should readers respect authors?" Being an author does not garner respect. Hopefully, the work itself or the person might.

#85 Yes, I care, and I really didn't just give up; life, health and publisher's deadlines took priority, and they are still issues. I will admit to becoming annoyed by an LT bully I really wanted to dress down, but I held my tongue or fingers.

88> how many readers -- non-writers, non-want-to-be-writers -- are actually here?
Me for one (well I might be able to apply for LibraryThing author as a contributor a couple of The Mathematics of Surfaces volumes, but that would be silly!).

Words are too hard!

Cool it folks, don't tell me writers aren't readers, too? I admit I was more a writer than a reader and it wasn't until I joined LT that I started reading every day. Thanks, LT. I feel so much better being on a constant voyage of discovery. I don't really care if I am not read by most LT'ers. I just enjoy the interaction, until it gets too repetitive!

re#89 - Gary - ah, that makes more sense to me. I understand the competing life priorities very well, and those things always put online interactions into perspective for me. Please just breeze by the bullies and keep posting and interacting with real content!

>89 GaryBabb: Moi? Hmm...

>91 oldstick: One more time -- I'm using the writer vs. reader distinction to mean writers are those people who write (or who want to write) and read vs. those people who do not write but read only. Saying 'writer' is just easier and to me clearer than typing it all out...

A possible way for readers and writers to interact on LT without it being "Read My Book!" would be for authors to start threads here in Hobnob about what they're reading--reading journals, like a lot of us in the Green Dragon keep or that people in the Book Challenge threads keep. It would be a way for writers to interact with non-writers via something they share--a love of reading. I know that I'm here on LT because I'm a reader and wanted to catalogue my books, then fell into the social aspect almost by accident.

Thoughts?

>94 Marissa_Doyle: My general reaction is "Why not give it a try?"

As for myself, personally, I am certainly willing to list the books I'm reading. I don't know that I'll find much to say about them, but I can list them.

Book of the Month group also encourages us all, readers and writers who read, to list and discuss the books they are reading.