Sacred Hunt Group Read - May - Hunter's Oath by Michelle West

Hunt Magic–

When the covenant was made with the Hunter God, all who dwelt in Breo­danir swore to abide by it. The Hunter Lords – and the hunting dogs to which their minds were specially attuned – would seek out game in the God’s woods to provide food for their people, and the Hunter God would ensure that the Hunters, the land, and the people prospered.

But in payment, once a year the Sacred Hunt must be called, the God’s own Hunt in which the prey became one of the Lords, or his hunt­brother. This was the Hunter’s Oath, sword to by each Lord and his hunt­brother – the companion chosen from the common folk to remind each Lord of his own ties to humanity. It was the Oath pledged in blood by Gilliam of Elseth and the orphan boy Stephen – and the fulfillment of that Oath would lead them to the kind of destiny from which legends were made…

Hunter's Oath is the first book in West's Sacred Hunt duology, which is the first series published in her sprawling epic fantasy Averalaan universe. It takes place at roughly the same time as the first three House War books (The Hidden City, City of Night, House Name), and comes before the six-book Sun Sword series. I've wanted to dig into West's epic fantasy for a while now, and this seems like a good place to start!

My copy just arrived, so I'll be starting it soon.

>2 Sakerfalcon: I hope you enjoy it! I'm getting into it- still in the part of the story I'd read previously a while ago before I'd drifted away- and finding it interesting, but the writing feels a little uneven (lots of infodumps- though not uninteresting ones- and headhopping). The best part so far for me has been the glimpse of a wider world at the end of the first chapter.

I'm getting the feeling that these will be really good books to reread.

Approaching a quarter of the way through now, and things have indeed opened up with a whole chapter now from Evayne's point of view, and a glimpse of demons and magic, which I was glad about- I didn't dislike the Breodanir/Hunter parts, but, as a personal preference, I'm always a little bit disappointed in "powers exclusively for men" like the Hunter's gifts.

Let's talk about Breodanir though- I find it very interesting that the focus is _not_ on Gilliam and his coming of age and coming into his power- instead, it's mostly Stephen, the non-super-powered one, with probably Lady Elseth, even further removed from the Hunter powers being a woman, coming in second in the amount of POV we get.

This gives a more nuanced and interesting view of life in Breodanir than a single POV from Gilliam would (cf something like Wheel of Time which begins almost exclusively from the "farmboy"'s perspective)- using many POVs to provide breadth is one of the strengths of epic fantasy, but usually I've seen it used to show different nations and such rather than gender/role divides in a single place.

I'm not as far into the book as you - I've just got to where the Elseth household go to the funeral of this year's Sacred Hunt victim. At this stage it would be easy to sum up the dynamic as "men go out and do manly things while women stay at home and worry" but those titbits from Evayne's pov hint that there is much more going on in the bigger picture. And I do like what I've seen of Lady Elseth even though she seems rather stuck in the role of good wife and household manager.

I do wonder how the Hunt Brothers sustain their numbers when the Sacred Hunt takes one man every year but new members seem to come only from the sons of current hunters. Presumably there are enough families with sons of the right age to keep the numbers consistent. Do we know how many Hunt brothers there are, relative to the population?

I'm also finding the household dynamics interesting, with the bonds between Hunter, brother and wife. Does only one of the men marry, as in the Elseth household, or can both? I look forward to seeing more hunter pairs so I can tell what is typical, or if each is different.

I didn't expect to find this book especially engaging based on the blurb and reviews, but it's drawing me in more quickly than The sun sword. The less formal, more readable prose has a lot to do with that.

I've read both these books a little while ago. It was a bit strange for me, since I had just read the first House war books, and those tell the same story from a different perspective. Especially the second book had a lot of overlap.

I find the writing style of the hunt books to be very different from both the sun sword books and also from the house war books. I think I ultimately like the style of the house wars the best. The sun sword books are more formal, the hunt books are a bit too chaotic and loose for me.

I did like seeing learning more about the Breodanir society. On the one hand, we see a lot of the male side of society, following the hunt brother and his hunter. But it is also very clear that the ladies are the ones who really rule. I could understand if some people would be annoyed about the 'hunters can only be male' thing, but I do like that women are powerful in their own way. Of course, in the house war and sun sword books, women are given positions of influence and power in all kinds of ways, both martial and otherwise.
I also liked seeing more of Evayne. She pops up all over the place in the sun sword books, but it is only here that I managed to get a little closer to her. I hadn't realized that these books were about her for a large part.

There's an essay that Ann Leckie wrote that I keep going back to, about works of fiction that punch you in the face, spoiling some to all of your enjoyment. This book just punched me in the face.

Evayne slumped forward as Sor na Shannen released her jaw. “You are an attractive woman,” the demon said. “I hate the waste, but I fear we do not have the time.” Very gently, she planted a kiss on Evayne’s bloodied lips.

I often look past a complete lack of non-straight characters in SFF, but when yet another torture sadist who just so happens to be a lesbian/bi/gay sexual predator shows up and I know that's the only character in a cast of probably dozens that's going to have a sexual orientation like mine...

My trust in fiction in general is going to be bruised for a little while, that's all.

I will be late to the party on this one, but I've ordered both books & hope to receive them in the next week or so :)

>7 sandstone78: That is a great essay. I've passed the point you mention and to me that detail was completely unnecessary. It surprises me too because The sun sword was sympathetic to bi-and same-sex relationships. I still hope West finds room for at least one positive portrayal in this duology.

Other than that I'm still enjoying the read and exploring the world.

>8 Seanie: Yay! Looking forward to your comments!

Finished this yesterday, alas a day late- thoughts in no particular order:

- So... Sor na Shannen is an evil sadistic bisexual succubus instead of an evil sadistic lesbian succubus. Sigh. Hopefully she will have less of a role in the next book.

- Cynthia kind of came out of nowhere, didn't she? I really wanted some earlier scenes from her perspective, her history and Maubreche seem rather interesting... Female characters in general seemed to get a bit shortchanged. :/ It's hard to feel, for example, that the real powers among the Breodani are the Ladies when the narrative seems to care so little about them- again and again they are "more useful back home" where we don't see them. The early abundance of Lady Elseth's POV kind of dried up except for a few scenes near the end.

- Other than Lady Elseth and Cynthia, we have Sor na Shannen the evil bisexual succubus, Evayne who is interesting but almost painfully uncertain of herself (compare to the experienced/powerful male characters like the Hunter Lords and the God-born master of the Order and their casual competence), and Espere who Gilliam commands like a dog (I'm honestly not sure what to think of Espere or Stephen's contention that Gilliam wanted to sleep with her). I appreciated the egalitarianism of "men and women" in most places (eg the Maubreche lineage, the mages of the Order that came to help in the final fight), but I wanted to actually see more women...

- In fact it almost seemed like there was a whole chunk of story cut out in the timeskip between Soredon and Norn's death and that section where we catch up with Stephen and Gilliam at 22? Really thought we'd see more of the impact of that, but we just pick up after everyone's moved on years later... and the dead huntbrother whose funeral Stephen and Gilliam attended earlier in the book seemed to have more of an emotional impact on Stephen's fears that Gil was dead late in the book than the death of his foster father and his rolemodel as huntbrother?

- Speaking of Norn and Soredon, was I the only one that read Soredon, Norn, and Lady Elseth as a polyamorous relationship? That seemed pretty heavily hinted in places. I can't actually count it as good representation of a same-sex relationship to counter Sor na Shannen since both of them ended up dead, though. Sigh.

- I was glad Evayne showed back up! But slightly disappointed the scenes with her and Stephen weren't actually from her point of view- then again it was interesting too to be on the other side of one of her sudden changes.

- This book seemed kind of oddly structured, more like vignettes than a particular full narrative- in some ways it worked for me and in others it didn't. I think I'll have to see how Hunter's Death plays out all the things this book set up for me.

- My feelings ended up being mixed, because of the treatment of female characters (Sor na Shannen lost the book half a star all on her lonesome honestly) and some general unevenness of the pacing/writing- in the end this entire book felt like setup more than a story on its own (and evidently Hunter's Death is three hundred pages longer than this book!), but this is a really interesting world and I really felt the sense of wow! from the Gods and deep history and myth and legend that I like in epic fantasy in many places. I'm certainly interested enough to continue on.

Edit to add: Hunter's Death thread is up!

>8 Seanie: Definitely interested to hear your comments! :D This thread doesn't close, so don't feel rushed.

>9 Sakerfalcon: Promising to hear that representation is better in the later Sun Sword books! I have to ask though, are any of the same-sex couples two women or is it all men again? Tragic deaths? :/

Seeing your comments has reminded me that I never came and put my own reactions to the book here.

I very much enjoyed the read but agree that the female characters were underused and Evayne, while interesting, never seemed quite real to me. I think that's the result of her changing with each appearance due to her time travelling. It's also hard for me to tell what exactly her role is other than to tell people their destiny and generally Portend Portentous Things. Mind you, I don't think she herself knows how she fits into the bigger picture, which she can only really glimpse.

The villains were a bit too villainous and I agree that Sor na Shannon's ... tendencies were a totally unnecessary way to show how EEEEEE-VIILLLL she is. Regarding your question to me about representation in The sun sword, yes, there are F/F relationships, between the wives in the harem, sympathetically shown as more positive than the marriage (and genuine, not just a make-do if they're not getting what they want from their husband). But yes, tragic deaths aplenty. *sigh* Mind you, she seems to have a downer on romantic relationships generally as none of the ones I can remember in SS are especially positive, nor are they anything like the main concern of the story.

Yes, Stephen's insinuation about Gilliam and Espere bothered me too - was he just jealous or was the desire really there? I find it disturbing, if so, because Espere is portrayed in a way that makes me doubt whether she could really give consent - it's so hard to know what she comprehends of human behaviour.

Speaking of Norn and Soredon - Yes, I thought that was being hinted at, but West kept it so fuzzy that I was frustrated in the end. I guess we the reader have to make our own mind up, but it's very disappointing that she didn't quite go there. I assume there might be quite a few relationships of this type between the Hunter Lords and Brothers and their wives - I seem to remember a comment along the lines of "You'll work it out between yourselves when the time comes to marry". I wonder the vagueness was an editorial demand?

The strength of the book is certainly its worldbuilding - the history and society feel real and the character spring organically from it rather than feeling as though the author placed them there, if that makes sense. However, that strength is also a bit of a weakness in that it's clear there is so much more out there than what we are being shown in this book, and it does make me feel that I'm missing something. I'm really looking forward to the expansion of the world in the next book, as I gather we meet Jewel of House Terafin, among others.