New shiny leather DLE

I got the spectacular 2 volume DLE of Toilers of the Sea (Routledge 1888). It is a dark rich green with gold deep cut design on cover, certainly nicer than the artist rendition on the EP website.

I have never seen leather like this, and I have been collecting for 40 years. The cowhide leather is imported from Italy; same place as other Routledge editions. The grain is so fine I can hardly see it..but the surprise is the sheen on the leather. It is so shiny that it reflects light.

Anyone understand what EP is doing to the leather to achieve this look?

Shiny like a shiny pair of leather shoes?

UK History Fan posted the following the following comment in the "2 New DLE" thread, post #20. Is this what you are referring to?

"I received two new DLEs in the mail this weekend: The Imitation of Christ and Around the World In 80 Days. Ok, so Imitation isn't really a DLE but it is marketed at the price level and with the design of a non-standard edition. I was sadly disappointed by the leather on both of them which seems to be very plasticized and unlike ANY other EP leather. Imitation is the worst example of this. Indeed I double-checked the title page to ensure it still says "bound in genuine leather" which it does. It reminds me of a high school textbook that has that shiny hard plastic exterior to protect the book from wear and tear. Very unbecoming in a $176 purchase."

>1 HugoDumas:

Any chance of putting up a picture? I thought standard EP leather was fairly plasticky and painted-looking, so this must be pretty extreme to be worthy of specific comment.

(Edit - I looked at the other thread, which has pictures of the Imitation of Christ. Absolutely horrible finish - looks like vinyl and might as well be. They will lose a lot of customers quick if they continue covering books with that).

Crofutt's New Overland Tourist also has the same shiny leather that I saw with The Imitation of Christ.

Skudefoo, would love to post picture. But there seems to be no tool on this forum for easily attaching photos. By the way, I am not complaining. I consider it one of the most beautiful sets in my massive library. And yes it is almost like a shiny shoe. I will contact EP to ask them what they are doing differently,

Here is what EP says in response to my question

"we have been using a smoother finish for certain titles over the past few years. The surface of most leathers is artificial in a way, being stamped with a pattern by a metal plate. We are using the very smooth version to enhance the clarity of the designs embossed into the covers."

>6 HugoDumas:

You can just load the image at tinypic.com and then it gives you a link to paste into the forum post. It is one extra step, but you don't have to register or login at tinypic, so it is still pretty quick.

Here is what EP says in response to my question

"we have been using a smoother finish for certain titles over the past few years. The surface of most leathers is artificial in a way, being stamped with a pattern by a metal plate. We are using the very smooth version to enhance the clarity of the designs embossed into the covers."

I guess that is true up to a point, but not all leather books have a stamped on grain or a thick coating over the substrate. I don't have very many leather books other than EP (a handful), but EP are the only ones I have with fake grain and something more akin to paint than dye. That said, the other ones I do have cost (a lot) more than standard EP fare and expecting too much from sub-$100 books is probably unrealistic. I think they can do better on their more expensive DLEs, though.

Does anyone know about the leather Franklin Library used in the 1970s-80s period? Their books are usually heavier than comparable EPs, but I don't know if it because of the leather or the paper. The leather feels about the same, but that can be deceptive. I generally prefer the paper EP uses to the old FP "slicker" paper.

Kroger, I have about 250 Franklin, also of various grades of leather. I think the quality is evident on the Oxford literature and Great Book sets which seem to have a high quality leather and in the former a thicker cardboard stock for the covers. In general their books are comparable. I have seen fine leather books in antique stores and neither Franklin nor EP can compare.

>12 daiquiz:
Unfortunately, it seems to be a very disturbing trend in all of the last several releases. I hope they get enough returns and negative feedback to change to a style of leather more desirable in extremely overpriced but still attractive books. Otherwise that would probably be the final nail in the coffin of my strained relationship with Easton Press. I most certainly will not pay their current asking prices for plasticized and artificially looking leather that does not hold a candle to the quality of their standard editions from the 1990s, which can still be obtained for around $25 to $30 on average (with several notable exceptions).

I have posted my Toilers of the Sea "shiny leather" set. Sorry for the redundancy, since I have posted on other topics. Consider that the grain on this book may be one of the few authentic grains in your library; and the leather is imported from Italy. EP indicates all other books have FAKE grain textures which are stamped by machine. I have a few Franklin books with no grain and I notice that most high end leather antique books have no grain. EP says they treated and buffed this up to make the embossed design pop, which it does! In my opinion this dark green and gold set is one of the most beautiful sets in my extensive library. So I am not sure why everybody is calling it plasticized; nor why everyone is disappointed. Are we simply used to FAKE grain on our books?

http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/skochkin/library/Toilers%20of%20the%20Sea?sort...

>14 HugoDumas:
Thanks for a different perspective on the "slick" leather. I haven't seen one myself. How does it feel to the touch? Like other Italian leather DLEs?

Jroger1, glorious to sight and touch. I cannot smell the leather as I did on some "untreated" Franklins in the past. Price still way too high...so glad they gave me free $149 coffee-table book for relative; that's what convinced me to get it. The other was I am a fan of the Routledge 1888 profusely illustrated collection of Hugo/Dumas, which I now have (including 3 originals). I figure more than 1,500 quality illustrations across 6 novels.

>14 HugoDumas: Thanks for sharing that. I'm actually not a big fan of the artificially stamped leather, and prefer a smoother texture.

>14 HugoDumas: The new leather that I think most of us are referring to is their regular pig skin (if it's still pig skin) leather and not the cowhide imported by cortina. The cowhide leather I'm a fan of. I wish they would put that on all DLEs!

ps. the toilers looks awesome :)

>14 HugoDumas:

People are calling it "plasticised" because that is how it appears to them when they look at it/handle it, I guess. I don't personally see the point of using leather at all if it looks nothing like leather (and that doesn't mean texture, necessarily -- as decent leather can be fairly free of texture), but if there is little or no texture, then a solid heavily painted shiny colour that completely hides the nature of the substrate seems the wrong way to go. It isn't really leather any more at that stage, it is just a random substrate for paint. Look at an old leather book -- generally speaking it isn't going to look painted. All IMHO.

For me, the difference for me between this and the stamped pigskins is that those standard edition books generally retailed for significantly below a hundred bucks, so even if the leather was sub-par, the price was also pretty sensible to compensate for that.

>19 Studedoo:
I'm seriously going to just stop posting and refer instead to your posts since you seem to capture my thoughts so accurately!

>20 UK_History_Fan:
Oh who am I kidding?!? I think perhaps, since I'm one of those that object to the "plasticized" leather, I should clarify that it is not the smoothness of the leather I am responding to, and it is not the artificial graining of standard editions that I am missing, it is the appearance and feel of plastic that I object to in a supposedly high-end and expensive "imported leather" production. If it doesn't feel like leather, if it doesn't look like leather, if it doesn't smell like leather....then, perhaps.....

Uk History Fan, I just did the smell test with about 25 books. Maybe it is my age but few books smell like leather. The strongest leather smell came from non-glossy/non-treated Franklin books with natural Grain (Frontier in American History). Kind of a varnish/chemical smell from my Routledge DLEs. I recall 30 years ago coming into my living room and being hit with a wave of leather smell. But No more. Never-the-less I do love the Routledge 1888 DLEs on Hugo and Dumas, which includes Toilers of the Sea.

>22 HugoDumas: >23 EclecticIndulgence:

Once upon a time leather products used to be sprayed with a product that supposedly smelled like "fresh" leather. Then along came some scientists around 15 or 20 years ago who demonstrated that certain chemicals in the spray were carcinogens. Suddenly Easton books no longer smelled like leather, shoe stores quit smelling like leather when you walked in the door, and new cars with leather upholstery smelled like any other new car. And so it is today.

http://m.occmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/57/6/438.full

>14 HugoDumas:

Those pictures look like real leather to me.

14: I think the answer to your question, at least in part, lies here:

http://www.seniormag.com/caregiverresources/articles/caregiverarticles/personal-...

26: ha ha! Will share with relatives who have this annoying disorder.

>26 astropi:

So much easier to go ad-hominem than address the actual issue, isn't it, Astropi? I mean, it couldn't possibly be that UK_History_Fan actually has a valid point, could it?

Aw, don't mind Astropi, UK - we all love you!! (Cue group hug)

>29 iluvbeckett:
Thanks! Well you know how it is when one fascistically patrols the group and disallows any criticism of their precious Easton Press (otherwise known as TTCDNW...They That Can Do No Wrong) no matter how well merited. But in truth, my blood pressure has been much less elevated in the weeks since I have figured out how to officially ignore him (LT automatically hides all his inane comments), that is until one of you quote him in your posts! ;-)

Has anyone asked EP executives about this? I have had questions in the past and they are very candid and friendly. They will respond if you call in customer service or the main # and ask for them. i.e. Judy Tat or Phil Kornblum (sp). Explore....http://www.mbi-inc.com/

>31 cu29640: yes, their explanation is in >7 HugoDumas: above. Personally I love it. And now looking back at my 800 books I can't help but notice most are all fake now knowing the grain is metal stamped in....some in fact is exaggerated grain.

I am pretty sure most leather has to be prepped before being used in applications like this. Whether bonded or not. The same applies to car seats.