Vote on 2017 CATS

In this thread we will vote on the official CATS for our 2017 group. We suggested CATS and discussed them here , but we can continue the discussion in this thread while we vote. So continue to make the case for your favorites. I will include as much information as I can from the previous thread to help with the voting.

The CATs with the top 3 number of votes will be the winners. Undecideds don't affect the outcome. However, in the previous thread, we decided that if both RandomCAT and CalendarCAT are in the top 3, then only the one with the most votes would become official, to avoid having two random-style CATs in the same year. Please vote only for those CATs you would be interested in participating in.

The voting will be open for one week, until October 10. Once the 3 CATs have been chosen, I will start new threads for planning each CAT.

Please hold off on comments until all the polls are added, so the polls will be at the top of the thread. Thanks!

Note: The BioCAT would include memoirs.

Some monthly topics might be:

- political/world leaders
- celebrity/entertainment
- medical
- animal
- fictional
- sports
- travelogues
- regular people

Each month could feature a different genre, and people would choose a book in a series in that genre.

- mystery
- YA/children's
- graphic novels
- historical fiction
- fantasy
- science fiction
- nonfiction?

alternatively: you do it around the series constant. For instance, trilogies, character (maybe specify type of character), place, family saga, couple...

Would include young adult and children's literature.

Focus on a different (broader) genre each month. We've done specific genres, where we've focused on subgenres, but I guess I envision this as being broader.

- mystery
- horror
- historical fiction
- fantasy
- science fiction
- romance

Suggestions included:

We've had the HistoryCAT before but what if we gave it a different focus? What if we looked at the history of war? How it's changed over the years, different areas conquered, etc.

we could have:
Revolutions and their causes
Ancient wars
modern wars
Political leaders
inventions during wars
cultural impact of wars
religious wars
civil wars
economic impact of war

Suggestions for how to structure the AwardsCAT included:

January: Awards for children's lit
February: Awards for speculative fiction
March: Awards for mysteries
April: Awards for "production values" (illustrations, translations, audiobook narrators, etc.)
May: Awards based in a country/language not one's own
June: Awards for poetry/plays
July: Awards for non-fiction
August: Bestsellers and Best Of lists (NYT Bestsellers, 1001 Books to Read Before You Die, BBC Big Read, Book Lust, etc.)
September: Regional awards and lists (100 Books in Literary Oregon, 100 Essential New England, all the Young Readers book awards that practically every state offers)
October: "Big prestigious awards" (Booker Prize, Pulitzer Prize, etc.)
November: Awards named after a person (Carnegie, Newbery, Andre Norton, Agatha Award, etc.)
December: Read your favorite award

ETA: For "award" I mean "anything that made it onto the LT Awards page" (Home > Stats/Memes > Awards), so there are a lot of lists there as well. I would leave it up to individual participants whether they want to do that or keep it strictly to awards proper. I would also include shortlists, longlists, nominees, etc., from any year, so you can read this year's nominees or a book that won an award 20 years ago or whatever suits your fancy.

ALTERNATE STRUCTURE:
Another format for the AwardsCAT is to make it a little more specific and try to match the specific awards to the months the shortlists are announced or the month an award is given. The challenge would, of course, be open to any books that have been on any long or short lists for that award as well as current nominees and past winners.

An example of a possible structure could be:

January -- The Newbery and Caldecott medals (Children's and YA) and Costa Book Award (Fiction, Bio, Children, and Poetry)
February -- Canada Reads competition and The Morning News Tournament of Books
March -- Genre Awards (any genre prize not already featured)
April -- International Dublin Literary Award and the Edgar Awards (mystery)
May -- Man Booker International Prize and the Pulitzer Prize (USA)
June -- The PEN Literary Awards (including everything from prizes for translation to prizes for sports writing and science writing) and the National Book Award (USA)
July -- Stonewall Book Award (LGBT lit) and Baileys Women's Prize for Fiction
August -- Miles Franklin Award (Australia) and the Hugo Awards (Science Fiction and Fantasy)
September -- Local Awards (a regional prize of your choice)
October -- Man Booker Prize and O. Henry Award (short stories)
November -- Nobel Prize for Literature (International) and the Giller Prize (Canada)
December -- International awards (a prize from a country you aren't living in)

So while there are specific awards, there are either two very different awards featured, or a large number of awards to choose from (for example: September). Choosing specific awards with long records means there are specific lists (we aren't looking around blindly for something that might fit) and those lists have a substantial number of books to choose from.

A Cultural Studies/Current Issues Cat--So, for instance, one month might be an Environmental month, and the goal would be to read fiction or nonfiction that dealt with a contemporary environmental issue (deforestation, biodiversity, water quality, etc.)

A breakdown of months could be something like:

January: Crime
February: Immigration
March: Environmentalism/Conservation
April: Terrorism
May: Disease/Illness
June: Poverty
July: Race Relations
August: War
September: Global Warming
October: Politics
November: Natural Disasters
December: War

Suggestions for the CATWoman structure included:

Classics by Women
Modern Novels by Women
Bailey's Prize Winners or nominees (formerly Orange Prize)
Other Prize Winners (Nobel, Pulitzer, etc.)
Regional reading (Middle Eastern women authors, Asian, African, etc)
African-American Women Authors
Lesbian Literature
Children's Book Favorites
Feminist Literature or Non-fiction
Biographies of Women
Autobiographies by Women
Genre Reading (mysteries by women, SciFi by women, Poetry, etc.)

Note: The structure would be loose, with each participants picking meaningful holidays/themes to guide their reading and hopefully telling us all about them as well as the books.

Ok, voting is open. I hope I captured all of the suggestions that had been made, but feel free to continue offering suggestions that might help others decide.

Another format for the AwardsCAT is to make it a little more specific and try to match the specific awards to the months the shortlists are announced or the month an award is given. The challenge would, of course, be open to any books that have been on any long or short lists for that award as well as current nominees and past winners.

The current set up is certainly doable, but it's very similar to the GenreCAT.

An example of a possible structure could be:

January -- The Newbery and Caldecott medals (Children's and YA) and Costa Book Award (Fiction, Bio, Children, and Poetry)
February -- Canada Reads competition and The Morning News Tournament of Books
March -- Genre Awards (any genre prize not already featured)
April -- International Dublin Literary Award and the Edgar Awards (mystery)
May -- Man Booker International Prize and the Pulitzer Prize (USA)
June -- The PEN Literary Awards (including everything from prizes for translation to prizes for sports writing and science writing) and the National Book Award (USA)
July -- Stonewall Book Award (LGBT lit) and Baileys Women's Prize for Fiction
August -- Miles Franklin Award (Australia) and the Hugo Awards (Science Fiction and Fantasy)
September -- Local Awards (a regional prize of your choice)
October -- Man Booker Prize and O. Henry Award (short stories)
November -- Nobel Prize for Literature (International) and the Giller Prize (Canada)
December -- International awards (a prize from a country you aren't living in)

So while there are specific awards, there are either two very different awards featured, or a large number of awards to choose from (for example: September). Choosing specific awards with long records means there are specific lists (we aren't looking around blindly for something that might fit) and those lists have a substantial number of books to choose from.

Does that sound attractive at all?

>14 RidgewayGirl: I voted "no" for in 9 above, but I like this structure much better and would vote differently.

>14 RidgewayGirl: While I might not participate every month, I'd probably be more likely to participate in the structure as Kay has proposed, since I follow several of those awards.

I added your structure to >9 sturlington: for reference.

>15 VivienneR: It's possible to cancel your vote and try again - at the end where it says 'your vote' it gives you the option to cancel (I did that a couple of times, changed a couple of 'nos' to 'undecided').

I much prefer something like this. I would vote no for the current structure.

>17 Jackie_K: You don't even have to cancel first. Just click on your new choice, and it will change.

>16 sturlington: Thanks, Shannon.

So, is HistoryCAT actually WarCAT or is that just an example with other themes possible?

It's a suggestion of how it could be structured but other themes are definitely on the table.

Can I vote for, say, 4 or 5 CATs I would be interested in or am I limited to 3 yes votes?

>16 sturlington: I'm not sure how to vote for the second list (as suggested by >14 RidgewayGirl:, but not the original list.

>21 Robertgreaves: Exactly what I thought. History might have been one of my choices, but not history of war.

>23 Robertgreaves: Well, nobody can tell how many you vote for. :-) But vote for what you'd intend to participate in if it won.

>24 VivienneR: We usually figure out the CAT structure after voting. It may end up not being exactly like any of the suggestions posed so far.

>25 sturlington: How do you plan on figuring what won? I mean are you looking purely at yes #s, yes minus no, or...?

>26 .Monkey.: i think in the past it has been decided based on the number of yes votes. Let me know if I'm mistaken.

I think a tie would have a runoff vote.

>27 sturlington: That's how it was done in the past. Feel free to shake it up if you want to! I avoided taking "no" votes into consideration since it seemed to skew the conversation over to what people would hate (and got quite negative) rather than what people were hoping to see. It was my impression that people used the "no" and "undecided" votes as a way of keeping track of their own votes.

>28 RidgewayGirl: Thanks! I agree. I think it's simpler just to go with yes votes.

*sigh* I really wish people would try even one year letting go of the random for something new. Unless things take a drastic swing, looks like I'll remain out. No sense joining for just one CAT.

I am in the group to track my reading. I didn't participate in any cats, dogs or group reads this year. Partly because I had overdone it the past few years.

I'd rather like one or two CATs next year. It doesn't look as if either of my favourites is going to make it. Maybe a KIT?

I agree that it might be time to turn RandomCAT into a KIT, and try something new.

>30 .Monkey.: I agree. As much as I love Random CAT it could be done as a KIT.

>31 MarthaJeanne: I do that over in CR. I was thinking about coming back because this group had some fun stuff and I liked the CAT thing for trying to pick books off my shelves that've been lingering and such, or occasionally for finding random titles I could get from the library that I'd not otherwise have encountered.

I'm glad it looks like women will finally make the cut, but I can just as easily keep my women goal on my own, as I've done this year. It's always nice to participate in stuff, but no sense being here for just one thing. Oh well.

>33 .Monkey.: I know what you're saying--it's a lot to keep up with, and it takes time to participate in more than one busy group. You can always pop in from time to time without actually trying to maintain a thread.

Well, it looks like I'll be sticking to the AlphaKit exclusively since none of my favorites are winning. Enjoy everybody.

>35 cyderry: Would you consider making an argument in favor of the CATs you'd prefer?

In the close running right now are

23 RandomCAT

22 AwardsCAT

20 CATwoman

18 CultureCAT

Those are the only ones with double digit yes votes.

I think CultureCAT has real possibilities, and it is quite different from previous years. I hope it gets set up as a KIT if it stays in fourth place.

>38 This-n-That: As of right now, I'd say that this is a minority opinion since RandomCAT currently has the most votes of any of the proposed CATs for 2017.

>38 This-n-That: If you would prefer for the RandomCAT to be a KIT next year, then don't vote for it now. If it doesn't make the cut, either make it a KIT yourself or see if someone else wants to do it (you would probably not have much trouble setting this up).

At this point every year, we all look at the voting and see that a CAT we'd love to see doesn't have the votes or that a CAT we don't care for looks like it will be chosen. It can feel frustrating. I know that in the past years (when I wasn't able to make my opinions known) I was always certain that I'd skip all the CATs next year because they were all going to be terrible. That's the problem with giving everyone a vote -- our own superior opinion doesn't have the importance it deserves. But as the discussion continues I always ended up fine with the CATs and indeed often enjoying the ones I hadn't wanted the most (SFFFCAT).

If you want a CAT that isn't doing well in the voting, speak up and tell us all why it would be awesome. Give some formatting so people have a picture of how it would look. This really does make a difference.

I'll agree with >37 MarthaJeanne: that I think CultureCat has a lot of possibility for being a successful cat (if that makes sense?), and add that I'll think about making it a Kit if it ends up not being chosen, though I am still hoping for it to be a Cat. I'll try to participate in whatever's chosen regardless (well, probably with the exception of an AwardsCat, I have to admit), but I thought I'd add a note to remind everyone that those topics I listed when I suggested a Cultural Studies/Current Issues cat were off the top of my head. One that I didn't list, for instance, would be Gender Equality; there's certainly plenty of fiction & nonfiction that would fit under that heading! In any case, I hope that helps people who are still waffling or thinking about where to place their votes...

>42 whitewavedarling: Gender Equality would be a good replacement for one of the wars. I think we could find other themes, too.

BTW It is now tied with CATwoman.

I'm a big supporter of the RandomCat but actually did not vote for it this year since it would be sort of nice to have something new and as pointed out above it could always be a KIT (similar to my other favorite - the AlphaKit).

Of the ones I voted for only the SeriesCat seems to be unlikely to make the final cut. I'm enthusiastic about it since I do tend to read a lot of mysteries and that lends itself to series reading. Could be fun to see what other genre series are out there.

Either way, whatever wins I'll be content and participate in the ones that I can.

I vote but try to stay fairly neutral as I figure if I don't like the final Cats, I just won't participate. But like Kay, I ended up trying the SFFF Cat (which I was sure I wouldn't like) and actually liked it a lot and it did expand my reading into books I probably wouldn't have read otherwise. But I always figure I have enough books to read and could skip a Cat without it affecting how much I read.

>40 RidgewayGirl: I always ended up fine with the CATs and indeed often enjoying the ones I hadn't wanted the most (SFFFCAT).

I can say the same. I rarely read SFFF and I was disappointed that it was chosen as one of the CATs a couple of years ago. It turned out to be one of the most enjoyable CATs for me. On the other hand, mystery is my favorite genre and the MysteryCAT is probably the one I liked least of all we've had so far.

I voted "no" on the CultureCAT and I probably won't participate if it's chosen. The concept sounds interesting, but it's too similar to the Non-fiction challenge I've been doing in the 75 Books group. I'm likely to participate in the CultureCAT only if/when a month's topic lines up with that month's topic in the NF Challenge. If CultureCAT doesn't make the cut, I'm sure that anyone interested would be welcome to participate in the NF Challenge. It's hosted in the 75 Books Group, but you wouldn't have to be a member of that group to participate.

Like >45 dudes22: Betty said I try to stay neutral also. There have been months where I didn't have any books that fit and that was ok. I am a big mystery reader but I didn't vote for a MysteryCat because that's what I'm going to read anyway. I am very interested in the CatWoman, but if it doesn't make the cut I'll incorporate it into my categories.

Sometimes I think when a promising CAT doesn't get a lot of votes, it's because it hasn't been fleshed out enough. I'd encourage everyone to remember your favorite ideas and bring them up next year. This is the third year we've tried for a CATWoman! I'd really like to see it win, but I'll be cool with whatever's chosen. I find the challenge in trying to mesh up my existing reading plans with the CATs, and of course, it's always fun to take book bullets.

And voting will go on all weekend, so it's not too late to propose ideas for how your favorite CATs might look and try to build excitement. People do change their votes.

As for CATs you feel iffy about... Some people have mentioned that they enjoyed the SFFCat more than they thought they would. I actually enjoyed the MysteryCAT more than I thought, because I hadn't read mysteries in years, so it prompted me to get out and try a few new authors. The key was, I think, not to overdo it! I burned out on the SFFCat tbh, but that's because I read a lot of sci-fi anyway. My point is that it's the unexpected challenges that sometimes turn out to be the most interesting, and you only have to participate as much as you want.

I'm more of a casual participant. If there's something on my real or virtual TBR shelves, I'll participate, if not, not. Also some months I've got a chunkster to read and so can't participate.

Having said that, I prefer challenges where I can see at a glance whether a book fits or not. Sometimes I get
a bit frustrated because I'm thinking that I won't know what books fit till I've actually read them.

Since RandomCAT is perennially popular, why not make it a standing CAT plus 3 other CATS so that other topics get a look in?

The CATs in 2015 didn't work well with my reading style, but this year they have been awesome! From January through September I read a book in the DeweyCAT, RandomCAT, AlphaKIT, GeoCAT and SF/SFFKIT every month. I'm participating a little less rigorously during the last quarter because I want to see if I can finish both of my Bingo cards.

I want to focus on making progress with series books next year, so my reading style may not mesh well with any of the CATs, but during some months I'm sure some books will fit.

Maybe 2018 will be a better match for me.

I try to do all CATS and Kits, Bingos, etc that I can. Sometimes it is easy, mostly it is a challenge, but I like to think its meant to be a challenge to get outside of our comfort zones, boxes or ruts.

>43 MarthaJeanne:, I definitely didn't mean to write war twice lol! I must have moved something around as I was writing the suggestion, and then left that there somehow. Oh well--everyone got the gist of it, I guess :)

Speaking as someone who tried something they didn't think they'd like, I've Really enjoyed doing the GeoCat this year. The others I kept up with this year were RandomCat and the SF/SFFkit. I think I missed one month in the RandomCat when I couldn't figure out anything in my TBR that would fit, and one month in the SF/SFFkit when I just ran out of time, but mostly I've kept up :) I kind of participated in the Alphakit, too, but mostly just when I could fit it into my other challenges or books to be read sooner-than-later, which I'm sure will be how I handle that particular challenge next year, too.

Regardless, I'll try to participate in whatever's chosen; jaded as I may be with award winners, I'm sure there'll be at least a few months when I have something lying around that will fit!

Since RandomCAT is perennially popular, why not make it a standing CAT plus 3 other CATS so that other topics get a look in?

I would say a standing KIT, like the alpha is, but yes, for real.

>54 This-n-That: It's probably too late to make the change this year, since voting has already begun, but we should definitely put it on the table next year.

The way it stands now, I'll probably just concentrate on my own Category Challenge and play with the AlphaKit.

I am severely tired of the RandomCAT, truly dislike the AwardsCAT (had it once before), and am not enthralled with the idea of CATwoman at all because I already read Classics by Women, Children's Book Favorites, mysteries by women, Modern Novels by Women by any race. I am not interested in Regional reading by men or women. I am currently reading bios of the Presidents so Biographies of Women and Autobiographies by Women just aren't on my radar (and hopefully will not be at the end of the USPC). The remaining areas described in CatWoman just don't appeal to me.

As for CultureCAT, just seems by the description to be a lesson in current events, and that's not what I want in my reading. I read to escape from the what's bad in the world, I don't need to read about it.

If this makes me closed minded and I've offended anyone with my opinions, I'm sorry, but I figured several years ago, I enjoyed my reading far more if I didn't "stretch" myself too far from my comfort zone. I read what I like and what I want to read and try not to influence anyone from reading any book.

I think culture CAT could be constructed in ways so it is not current evens but interesting topics that would work well with fiction. It could be anthropological, combining elements of geography and history and traditions, etc. When this came up last year, I was for it but I was for it as a way of reading about other cultures not a lesson in political science.

We're only just now in the voting process and 2017 is still months off, how is it possibly too late for any ideas? >.>

If people would prefer RandomCat to be a KIT instead of a CAT, they shouldn't vote for it.

Clearly people enjoy it. But the fact is it's been an official CAT for years and it's taking the space of other things, which many of us want. There's only a few votes shy of the next 3 top votes as there is for that one. If it were up to me I would make an executive decision and drop it to a KIT, or at least do 4 instead of 3, because clearly the vast majority of those voting want those other 3 also.

Since I'm only helping keep the process organized, I won't be making executive decisions. But we can discuss whether we'd like to have four CATs instead of three, especially if RandomCat wins, which it seems likely to do. We did discuss this before and the consensus seemed to be to stick with three, but I'm happy to put up a poll if folks would like to vote on the issue.

It might also be helpful to make a case for CultureCAT and how it might be structured.

We can also extend the voting time if necessary. I want to keep things moving but we're not in a rush.

I guess I'll jump in since I'm the one who suggested a cultural studies/current events cat originally...

Partly, I suggested it because I think it could be a good fit for readers of both fiction and nonfiction, and let readers either stay in their comfort zones or wander outside of them. So, just for instance, I'll take an issue like biodiversity/endangered species. Obviously, there are hundred of nonfiction books out there on the subject. But just in terms of fiction, there's also a lot to choose from. There are books about zoologists, mysteries dealing with poaching and/or species protection, romances taking place in settings concerned with such an issue, etc. Offhand, fiction-wise, I can think of novels in the genres of mystery, thriller/suspense, romance, and general/literary fiction. I'm sure there are some out there in science fiction and fantasy, too, if I thought a bit more, and they're just not coming to mind at the moment.

My idea is that a Cat like this would allow those who want to to learn about issues/subjects they're interested in to do so while others can simply see how something like this comes into play in fiction, and hopefully it might prompt some interesting conversations.

I totally understand the idea of using reading to escape the world and real issues, and often feel the same. Truthfully, I don't have the faintest desire to read nonfiction about feminism or gender equality. But, give me a book centered on a feminist character who's fighting for equality, or a story dealing with inequality between genders being addressed, and I'm glad to engage.

If we went with this Cat, I'd suggest we start by brainstorming a list of possible topics, and then narrowing down to the ones we're most interested in, whatever those might be.

I think there's a lot of room for play with something like this, and that it would also be a Cat where people could see at a glance whether books fit the challenge.

>63 sturlington:, does this help?

Of the top 4, I voted for 2 of them, but I'd likely participate in all of them, anyway. If CultureCAT doesn't make it, I'd do it as a KIT.

Not too many are defending it (though many have voted for it), one thing I like about RandomCAT is that it IS something new and different every month. Just my thought on it. Yes, I suppose it does take the place of something else, that's just what I think.

>65 LibraryCin:, I feel the same way about the RandomCat, and I know I said so at some point lol. I like being surprised every month by one of the challenges :)

>65 LibraryCin: Not too many are defending it (though many have voted for it)

I don't see why it should be necessary to defend something that's in the top 3 in the voting. The vote should speak for itself. I voted for RandomCAT as one of my three choices and I haven't been persuaded that I need to change my vote.

>64 whitewavedarling: Sure, I think any additional info is helpful. It does seem a little wide-ranging right now, and perhaps that is the beauty of it, that it can stretch to fit a lot of different interests. But people may be having trouble getting their arms around what it will actually look like, if you see what I mean.

>67 cbl_tn: I didn't mean for anyone else to have to speak up for it. I just wanted to put in a comment FOR it (since the comments have mostly gone the other way). But, you're right. The comments don't seem to have swayed those of us who have voted for it.

>68 sturlington:, I suppose it does. I guess we could focus it down more, but I think that was part of the beauty of it for me when I was thinking about it. Is it more wide-ranging than history, though? I suppose it is since it encompasses both nonfiction and fiction.

It's probably just the way my brain thinks; I'd never be up for a bio/autobiography challenge because that's Too focused, so I tend to look for ways to wander in my reading :) Anyone else who has ideas, though, can definitely throw out ideas for focusing it in more!

I don't think that it's a coincidence that the CATs with the most votes are those with the clearest parameters. We all know how the RandomCAT works and the other leading contenders are fleshed out. I'd be interested in a few others, but as I can't see what the finished product might look like, I'm hesitant to vote for it. If someone wishes that a suggested CAT were doing better in the voting, then take a half hour and put out a possible structure for us to consider. It's easier to picture how a CAT would fit into my planned reading when there's more to work with.

I'm not seeing a lot of desire to vote on the number of CATs we'll have. It seems like this group has always done three official CATs, and we had discussed in the planning thread changing that number, but it still seemed like three was the consensus. The group should decide, and unless there's an outcry, we'll stick with the top three vote-getters being the official CATs. There is no limit to the number of KITs as long as there are volunteers to run them.

Originally, I planned to tally the votes on Monday. Please comment if you feel like the voting should be extended to allow time to flesh out the CultureCAT more.

>72 sturlington:, Once you decide on exactly when to end the voting, can I suggest leaving a note (or even a new thread) to that effect in the 2016 challenge? I know that last year I accidentally missed the voting entirely, not realizing it happened so early!

>73 whitewavedarling: Sure, I had posted about the voting on the 2016 CAT threads, but I'll post again. I wouldn't want anyone to miss it.

>74 sturlington:, I caught it this year :) I just figure a reminder could be helpful for folks who are having a busy month!

Thanks for the reminder I found on another post!

>72 sturlington: I think the voting should end when originally scheduled. It would be giving an unfair advantage to one CAT to extend the time so that it can make more of a case -- unless you are willing to allow 4 official cats.

I'm voting yes for History Cat. There are so many possibilities--social history, political history, agricultural history, the history of __________, cultural history, intellectual history, diplomatic history, economic history.......they are endless and so much variety! And these reads DON"T have to be history per say, but historical fiction! I'm thinking History of The Scottish Highlands-Outlander, History of Russia-Journey Into the Whirlwind (a memoir of a woman who lived through Stalin's gulags, Black Lotus a novel takes place during the Samurai period.......and think of the Michener possibilities!

If women doesn't make it would anyone be interested in a group for monthly themed reading of books by women (the same way we've done the Horror group, essentially)? ...Actually I'd do the same thing for any/all of the ones I actually care about reading (culture, history, and bio). I enjoy the inspiration & nudging from challenges, and it's always nice to do them along with others. Plus, small groups are nice friendly places to hang out.

>78 Tess_W: You are right, history has many possibilities. I realize the final setup is decided after the voting is done, but the war focus was particularly discouraging for me.

>79 .Monkey.: I'd like to say I'd join any of culture, history or bio, but I seem to be adding more and more challenges (and I really do try to read for every one of them every month!). I know, that's my choice and I don't have to read a book for every challenge every month, but I guess I'm a bit "competitive" that way, even if it's with myself! I'm very disappointed when I miss one.

I think there already is a history one, similar to that (I think "Reading Through Time" does that kind of thing. For culture or bio, I'd probably join, but I can't promise to participate. I'm in the history group, but it's taken a backseat to my other challenge groups. (For anyone interested, there is a newer - came via shelfari - Mystery group that does that for mysteries (Mystery and Suspense Extra), as well. There are other challenges going on in the group, as well, but that's the one I enjoy and focus on there.)

>77 sallylou61: So far, no one's asked to extend the voting so I think we'll go ahead as planned. Voting will end tomorrow morning and the 3 CATs receiving the top votes will be our CATs. If there is a tie, we'll have a runoff vote.

>81 LibraryCin: I don't think ...hmm *goes to check* Oh, I guess Reading Through Time has changed since I last looked at it, they didn't used to have themes like that, only time periods, and only a couple a year. Interesting. If they continue it next year I might possibly join, I'll keep an eye on it.

>14 RidgewayGirl: I love the suggestion for the Awards CAT!

>84 LoisB: I like that suggestion too. It opens up lots of possibilities because awards are so diverse.

I prefer the suggestion by >14 RidgewayGirl: too.

Voting results
AwardsCAT: 27
RandomCAT: 25
CultureCAT: 23
CATWoman: 23
GenreCAT: 12
CalendarCAT: 11
BioCAT: 10
SeriesCAT: 10
HistoryCAT: 9
MysteryCAT: 8
YACat: 5

AwardsCAT and RandomCAT will be two of our official CATs. We will have a runoff between CultureCAT and CATWoman. Voting will be open for 3 days.

I voted undecided for both. I'd like more details about what they are actually going to look like first.

>91 Robertgreaves: Yes, definitely.

Here's what was originally posted with the CATWoman option:

Classics by Women
Modern Novels by Women
Bailey's Prize Winners or nominees (formerly Orange Prize)
Other Prize Winners (Nobel, Pulitzer, etc.)
Regional reading (Middle Eastern women authors, Asian, African, etc)
African-American Women Authors
Lesbian Literature
Children's Book Favorites
Feminist Literature or Non-fiction
Biographies of Women
Autobiographies by Women
Genre Reading (mysteries by women, SciFi by women, Poetry, etc.)

I would suggest dropping the Bailey's Prize for Women's Fiction option, as it's also listed in the AwardsCAT set-up, as well as the Prize Winners. I'd also suggest combining autobiography and biography.

What topics are we especially interested in, and which are we willing to skip?

I especially like the Classics by Women theme, but I'd suggest altering the Modern Novels by Women to Novels by Women Published in the Twenty-First Century or similar, to avoid the inevitable discussion on what is meant by "modern," as well as to narrow the field a bit (but not too much).

We never actually had a vote on the number of official CATs to have. We informally agreed that 3 was a good number. However, that was before the voting on the CATs began. Since Sept. 20th when the number of CATs was discussed, various other factors have been discussed such as how many of the CATs should be new (as opposed to former CATs being repeated), whether the RandomCAT should become a permanent CAT or KIT (and thus not voted on), etc.

Since the spread for the top 4 ranked CATs was only 4 votes (27-23) and the 5th ranked CAT had almost one half less votes (23-12 equals 11) than the 3 and 4 CATs, I suggest that we vote on whether to have 4 official CATs. If we took the top 4, we would have 2 former (or "old") CATS (Awards and Random) and 2 new (Culture and CATWoman).

If we had a vote on the number of official CATs, and 3 (instead of 4) won, then the winner of the runoff between CultureCAT and CATWoman would be the third CAT.

>93 sallylou61: All right, we'll vote on it.

>91 Robertgreaves:, There's more info. in posts 10 and 64 about the CultureCat. Essentially, the idea is that each month would be themed by a particular issue related to cultural studies/current issues--gender equality, conservation/environmental concerns, civil rights, war, etc., and both fiction and nonfiction would work for any given month. ie. If the theme of a month was immigration, then readers might read a memoir or piece of nonfiction related to immigration, or a novel or collection of poetry with immigration as an issue/theme within the work. I hope that helps!

I have to admit that, though I really only wanted 3 CATs, I voted this time to have 4. Simply because it's so close, with 3rd place being tied! It could cause some "trouble" for me, as I know I'll attempt all of them, and I hate missing one, but I like the extra option with such a close outcome with the voting.

I voted to have 4 official CATs. It seems a shame to get rid of either CultureCAT or CATWoman when they got an equal number of votes and they both have a lot of supporters. To me, 4 vs. 3 CATs doesn't make much of a difference, since I treat them as "take it or leave it" challenges and don't try to participate in all of them every month. But I can see how 4 CATs would be overwhelming for someone who wants to do them all every month.

How long will you be running the vote on 3 verses 4 CATS. I voted against 4, I think 3 is enough CATS and there is always the options of KITS.

>99 Kristelh: Right now, I'm planning on running both votes through Thursday morning EST. That allows three days for voting.

Right now, the vote on whether to have 3 or 4 cats is tied, and the vote between CultureCAT and CATWoman is super-close. If there's a tie by end of day tomorrow, or it's still very close (like within one or two votes of each other), I think we should go with having all four CATs. That seems like the best compromise. Any thoughts on this?

I agree; I personally think that we should go with both of the CATs still in the running - i.e. go with 4 CATs. Yesterday there were 48 members of the 2017 Category Challenge Group when the first round of voting ended. The initial vote of the top four CATs was:

AwardsCAT: 27
RandomCAT: 25
CultureCAT: 23
CATWoman: 23

That means that approximately half the membership voted for each of these 4 cats. (The range was 56.25% to 47.9%.) Thus, these four choices all have strong support of the membership. Obviously some people voted for more than one of these CATs, but some of us voted for only one.

Thus, I think that it is most fair to include all 4 CATs.

>102 sallylou61: Agree!

Voting is not limited to those who have already joined. It might be more realistic to compare the numbers to the 2016 Challenge with 168 members. The interest doesn't seem very strong from that standpoint.

In the end, if one of the choices isn't a CAT, I assume it will be a KIT, and those of us who are more interested in that one will still do it. In practice it doesn't make a lot of difference.

However, I don't understand the standpoint of those who are determined not to have 4 CATs. You can be a participant in the group without taking part in any CATs. You certainly don't have to do all of them. If there were 5 or 6 close together it would be different, but the next highest vote was 12.

>104 MarthaJeanne: Good points.

I don't mind how many CATs are chosen because I will decide which ones I will or will not do. One of the CATs I voted for is CATwoman but if it is not chosen I'll work it into my personal reading challenge anyway.

Four CATs should work well because it allows each of us to choose our personal favourites, and disregard the one/s we don't care for.

>104 MarthaJeanne: I chose three CATs because I feel that participation will be spread too thin if there are too many CATs and I think they are most interesting when large numbers of people are contributing. Although, it's true that if they all become KITs that won't make any difference.

>104 MarthaJeanne: It is still very early to join the challenge group. I don't know how many had joined last year by the time the voting was announced.

Here is last year's vote (for the 2016 cats).

Voting is closed. Results are in.

BingoDOG is a go.

Here are the results for the CATs voting:

GeoCAT 27 votes
DeweyCAT 24 votes
RandomCAT 23 votes
CATWoman 22 votes
ClassicsCAT 17 votes
AwardsCAT 14 votes
DiversityCAT 11 votes
YA CAT 8 votes
SeriesCAT 6 votes
Poetry&PlaysCAT 4 votes
BlackCAT 4 votes
ListCAT 3 votes
AlphaCAT 1 vote
BioCAT 1 vote

Therefore, the number of votes for this year's top 4 cats is very much in line with last year's. Only the top 3 were chosen last year.
Thus, CatWoman lost by one vote. Some of us were very disappointed, and we developed the Woman BingoPUP, which had a lot of participation this year. However the Bingo cards are a very different challenge than the CAT challenges.

>107 sallylou61: Oh, that's interesting. Look how close CATWoman was last year! CultureCAT, of course, wasn't an option then. It makes me happy to see that BioCAT jumped from only 1 vote last year (was it mine? I don't remember!) to 10 this year! :-)

We have 168 members this year and if we have as many in 2017 four CATs should be doable and give everyone a taste of whatever appeals. I realize not everyone participates, but maybe with more choice, they will opt in.

I voted for three, but I'm flexible. Every CAT and Kit I've tried in the last three years has been a lot of fun.

>109 VivienneR: wrote: "I realize not everyone participates, but maybe with more choice, they will opt in. " I think this is probably true, that some people who do not normally participate in CATs will find one that appeals, if there is more choice.

However, I'm one of the ones who tries to do the 3 CATs every month, though I don't always succeed. I fear that, with 4 CATs, I'll end up participating less in each, just because I don't have enough reading time to accommodate another challenge. Like many of you, there are other challenges and group reads that I'm also planning to do.

Rather than split my time between CultureCAT and CATWoman, I'd prefer to participate fully in one and hope that the other gets chosen the next year so that I can give it more attention then.

>110 mathgirl40:, my thoughts are the same.

CATs and KITs being optional, I personally think the way to encourage participation is to create challenges that can be more widely interpreted. Different people have very different reading goals, preferences and interests. Narrow CATs will be selective, wider ranging ones more open to those of us who might otherwise pass on a CAT or KIT.

I really only participated in the Random CAT this year, but might be interested in the CATs this year if they are adaptable to what I prefer to read. Not looking to expand my reading, like some are. Want to read my TBR instead.

>110 mathgirl40: Having said that, I have to add that like you, I too like to do all 3 CATs each month. Four would be taxing to say the least, especially considering the excellent points made by >112 majkia:. I am reminded that the CAT choices that were filled by books from my tbr shelves were the most enjoyable - after all, I've gone to some trouble to fill the shelves with books that I really want to read. And it was fun to look for just the right book there. Less enjoyable were the books found for narrow categories where I had to search library and bookseller catalogues for a book that would fit, and ended up with something I didn't care for.

>113 VivienneR: I also find that I prefer finding a book on my shelves to fit a Cat Challenge rather than scrambling to find one that I then may not fancy. I am a little concerned with the number of Cats, Kits and Dogs that we are going to be having next year and I hope all these challenges don't end up overwheming us. I am going to try very hard not to be too concerned if I can't participate in all the challenges every month.

If we end up doing the 4 CATs, I guess we can see how it goes for one year, then decide again for 2018 if that was too many.

>114 DeltaQueen50: I'm going to try not to worry if I don't do every CAT every month, or fill every bingo square. OTOH, I get obsessed with the challenge and off I go again. :)

>115 LibraryCin: Good point!

I voted for 4 because one of the top 3 is RandomCAT this year & I don't really think of that as 'official' CAT material because of its total lack of theme. I don't mean that critically, just that I prefer CATs that are actually thematic as random happens all the time in my reading so I kind of think of the first 3 choices as 2 CATs + Random. So I see 4 as 3 + Random really. There's a good argument for just letting Random roll over each year and not taking up one of voting spots, I think.

Your rationale makes perfect sense. The tricky part is making the choice as close to perfect as possible for as many participants as possible. I don't envy the job. But I love being here.

The vote is definitely to have 4 official CATs. I'll set up planning threads for each CAT. I wouldn't mind some help managing the discussion on how to structure each one, perhaps by those who originally proposed them.